David Lloyd: Players families kidnapped if players do not comply

[ahsan17]

http://twitter.com/bumblecricket

Lord Condon is apparently aware of kidnapped families if players do not comply with these gangsters ..

David 'Bumble' Lloyd (BumbleCricket) on Twitter

[PakFan2010]

Intresting.......

[MAJID-SHAH]

Intresting.......

yes, very interesting......

[asifp]

ok Mazhar was friend with these guys. Why would you hang out with someone who wants to kidnap your family

[Sledger]

Well this contradicts the reports which say the players went to the fixer after he put the offer on the table.

[Waq]

Makes you look at it in a different perspective.

I have always remained cynical about Hansie Cronje's death in a plane crash.

Whether families have been threatened in this case, I have no idea but these indian bookies are likely to have some serious muscle, especially if they are linked to Dawood Ibrahim and co.

Does anyone remember a genuine story / rumour that Wasim Akram's father was once kidnapped by bookies?

[Golden arm]

if you go through news in detail, it was not mazhar who started all this , infact after being frends for many years PLAYERS approached mazhar to arrange this kind of stuff.

[Kray_jackson7]

they were friends. its not like they never knew each other

[Maula Jutt]

See? That's why I said we should wait a few days until this whole thing develops.

Though this may be a small start, we need to wait and see if we can find out exactly WHY the players did what they did? It's not always about money. Sometimes it's about life.

And though both are wrong, the latter makes it understandable by a long margin.

[oracleg]

Makes you look at it in a different perspective.

I have always remained cynical about Hansie Cronje's death in a plane crash.

Whether families have been threatened in this case, I have no idea but these indian bookies are likely to have some serious muscle, especially if they are linked to Dawood Ibrahim and co.

Does anyone remember a genuine story / rumour that Wasim Akram's father was once kidnapped by bookies?

Yeah vaguely remember that. Guess that's what bumble is alluding to...

[Amoeba]

Gangsters are nasty people and will do all sorts of things. It is difficult in a lawless state like Pakistan to do the right thing, especially when the biggest crook is sat there as Head of State.

I do have some sympathy if true, but we have to get rid of this filth from top to bottom. It has gone on too long. The only way that is going to happen is if they are busted outside of Pakistan. Inside Pakistan the small thieves get caught whilst the big fish get off scot free (apart from a nice donation to judges and their ilk).

I don't know why but Wasim Akram's name comes to mind............er.........um.........of course I am not suggesting anything (without consulting a lawyer!)

[Chuffed]

See? That's why I said we should wait a few days until this whole thing develops.

Though this may be a small start, we need to wait and see if we can find out exactly WHY the players did what they did? It's not always about money. Sometimes it's about life.

And though both are wrong, the latter makes it understandable by a long margin.

His phone call to Aamir calling him *****r and what have you about whether he was asleep or not, that for starters doesn't sound too friendly to me. I think they intimidated him into it. The other two can get life bans for all I care.

[Mohsin]

Perhaps....but then you can say everyone would have to be involved or risk having their family kidnapped (which is clearly not the case with our patriotic players who play for Pakistan)

[Maula Jutt]

His phone call to Aamir calling him *****r and what have you about whether he was asleep or not, that for starters doesn't sound too friendly to me. I think they intimidated him into it. The other two can get life bans for all I care.

Err, I don't know if you are aware of it. But among friends, especially desis trying to be ghetto abroad, they use such language when addressing each other. It is taken in light vein. Nothing serious. Imagine a black american guy calling up his friend and asking the same thing. You'll get the picture.

It's the same with guys in Pakistan. Among friends, calling each other bhen***d is pretty common and is not taken seriously.

So while reading the same article from NOTW, read the same dialog imagining Mazhar in a good jolly mood while he says it. And you'll get it.

[Xoib]

lol...people trying to find loopholes for Aamer to escape.

[Romali_rotti]

Oh please, I dont buy this kidnap theory. So now there is a 'LOOP-HOLE' so these players who had done wrong to the country can escape so they get another chance to do it again in the future... I see no hope for Pakistan, like said by other posters here; Pakistan cricket is over, start following another country or another sport....

[Mohsin]

lol...people trying to find loopholes for Aamer to escape.

Tbh it sickens me that they still want him back lol

People complain about 'our people' binging back the same politicians but Aamir Bismillah? Wah ji wah

[Maula Jutt]

I'm not saying he wasn't forced into it. For all we know, he was. But I'm still trying to look at everything from both points of view just so I dont get my hopes up only to see them crashing down when the worst I fear comes true.

So yeah, I really hope he was forced into it. But I dont want to believe it yet.

[Mohsin]

Oh please, I dont buy this kidnap theory. So now there is a 'LOOP-HOLE' so these players who had done wrong to the country can escape so they get another chance to do it again in the future... I see no hope for Pakistan, like said by other posters here; Pakistan cricket is over, start following another country or another sport....

Amazing, almost all the indian posters have been very...consistant with their 'bash Pakistan' posts recently

[Maula Jutt]

Oh please, I dont buy this kidnap theory. So now there is a 'LOOP-HOLE' so these players who had done wrong to the country can escape so they get another chance to do it again in the future... I see no hope for Pakistan, like said by other posters here; Pakistan cricket is over, start following another country or another sport....

Easy with the premature ejaculations. Pakistan cricket is not going anywhere.

[Decipher]

http://twitter.com/bumblecricket

Quote:
Lord Condon is apparently aware of kidnapped families if players do not comply with these gangsters ..

David 'Bumble' Lloyd (BumbleCricket) on Twitter

some poster in another thread quoted Aqib Javed for saying the same thing a couple of years ago and the reason why Aqib resigned too early before the end of his playing career.

Thanks Bumble for confirming it. It's the lawlessness in Pakistan where mafia and the govt are the same thing so these kinda stuff is pretty much norm of the day.

[Romali_rotti]

Amazing, almost all the indian posters have been very...consistant with their 'bash Pakistan' posts recently

Ok here ya go; Aamer, Asif & Kamran's families were threatened and I feel terrible for them hope they will be cleared ASAP and keep playing for Pakistan...

[Maula Jutt]

Amazing, almost all the indian posters have been very...consistant with their 'bash Pakistan' posts recently

Which is funnier because one thing has been pretty consistent with all our matchfixing stories to date, and that has been the role played by Indian bookies.

[Extreme Pace]

His phone call to Aamir calling him *****r and what have you about whether he was asleep or not
any link to this info ?

[Mohsin]

Ok here ya go; Aamer, Asif & Kamran's families were threatened and I feel terrible for them hope they will be cleared ASAP and keep playing for Pakistan...

Yes because as you can tell i REALLY want them back and i've been backing them like hell havent i?

Jeez, go to your indian forums and party it out like the others

[Mohsin]

Which is funnier because one thing has been pretty consistent with all our matchfixing stories to date, and that has been the role played by Indian bookies.

And dont forget, india has been the cleanest team when it comes to match-fixing...

[Mo.]

They are in England; if this were at all the case, all they had to do was speak to the authorities and they would have handled it. Not as if they were in Pakistan and had to go along with it because they had nowhere else to turn

[Romali_rotti]

Easy with the premature ejaculations. Pakistan cricket is not going anywhere.

That is the problem Pakistan cricket is not going anywhere, its always lying in the same ol dumps be it Ijaz Butt, Zadari, Match fixing, steroids or whatever the case.. I have serious doubts about that Sydney test match now, I never believed before when allegations were brought up but now I actually think there maybe some truth to it....

[ahsan17]

Oh please, I dont buy this kidnap theory. So now there is a 'LOOP-HOLE' so these players who had done wrong to the country can escape so they get another chance to do it again in the future... I see no hope for Pakistan, like said by other posters here; Pakistan cricket is over, start following another country or another sport....

Dude, authorities are talking about this. It's not just a theory being pulled out of the ass. So there's something to it.

[Chuffed]

.........

[Chuffed]

Err, I don't know if you are aware of it. But among friends, especially desis trying to be ghetto abroad, they use such language when addressing each other. It is taken in light vein. Nothing serious. Imagine a black american guy calling up his friend and asking the same thing. You'll get the picture.

It's the same with guys in Pakistan. Among friends, calling each other bhen***d is pretty common and is not taken seriously.

So while reading the same article from NOTW, read the same dialog imagining Mazhar in a good jolly mood while he says it. And you'll get it.

Hmm, that culture needs to change fast then. I'll give my mates a right ol' thwack on the grill if they consistently use words like that.

[StraightHit]

And dont forget, india has been the cleanest team when it comes to match-fixing...

No one is saying that Indian cricket is clean. Though the example the Indian board set when match fixing was uncovered was top notch. Players got 5 years or life bans.

That is an example that needs to be followed.

[Romali_rotti]

Dude, authorities are talking about this. It's not just a theory being pulled out of the ass. So there's something to it.

Ofcourse there must be something to it, heck even OJ Simpson got away once.....

[SOSami]

As was indicated on the discussion on the thread discussing why Younis and Afridi were supposedly cowards for leaving rather than speaking out..

The murky world of bookies, politicians and appointments within the PCB that go all the way up to Zardari, all tied together by dirty money is not childsplay.

Whistleblowing by YK and Afridi is something that may well not be feasible or even safe within the Pak environment at the moment. Based on personality, they are the bravest cricketers to play for Pakistan since Imran and if they of all people don't feel confident in speaking out, instead choosing to run for cover, I dread to think what must pressures may be applied to Pakistani cricketers.

It is never a simple case of purely taking money, especially for relatively wealthy players like Butt. Unfortunately, most of those threats are so serious players don't dare mention them even when questioned by committees, rather taking the flack themselves to protect their family and friends. Some, if not most of those guys who were involved will undoubtably deserve our sympathy. It goes beyond any pretence about individual responsibility or personal pride for cricketers, it often comes down to personal safety.

Lets damn the situation, but leave individual mud-slinging until the details are more clear.

[ahsan17]

Ofcourse there must be something to it, heck even OJ Simpson got away once.....

Stop throwing straw mans and focus on the bigger picture here.

[Mohsin]

No one is saying that Indian cricket is clean. Though the example the Indian board set when match fixing was uncovered was top notch. Players got 5 years or life bans.

That is an example that needs to be followed.

I agree...but much more than 5 years, should be life-bans especially for the likes of the druggie and Akmal

[tauseefm]

Oh please, I dont buy this kidnap theory. So now there is a 'LOOP-HOLE' so these players who had done wrong to the country can escape so they get another chance to do it again in the future... I see no hope for Pakistan, like said by other posters here; Pakistan cricket is over, start following another country or another sport....

Ok so you are basically saying ban "PAKISTAN" from playing cricket just because of 7 scums? What has the entire nation done? Why not kick out these players forever and bring in new faces. Its like 100 people are bad in 1 billion population and u r talking about bombing the 1 billion people. I smell your hate towards PAKISTAN then these 7 scums :13:

[StraightHit]

I agree...but much more than 5 years, should be life-bans especially for the likes of the druggie and Akmal

Absodamnlutely! Whoever sells their countries honor does not deserve the honor to represent his country again.

This is the only way to deal with fixers.

I am not a Pakistani...but I sure hope this all is not true. World of cricket does not need this!

[Romali_rotti]

Ok so you are basically saying ban "PAKISTAN" from playing cricket just because of 7 scums? What has the entire nation done? Why not kick out these players forever and bring in new faces. Its like 100 people are bad in 1 billion population and u r talking about bombing the 1 billion people. I smell your hate towards PAKISTAN then these 7 scums :13:

Too bad you cant think outside the box, ofcourse I am not saying ban Pakistan cricket all I am saying is; I dont see any future for you guys. The guy you have incharge running the whole PCB says it all, sorry I am just pointing out the bitter truth, some wont like it some will see my point. Keep playing the sport by all means and no one wants to ban or will ban you however be ready to get dragged down into the dumps on an ongoing basis....Its impossible to clean up Pakistan's cricket, there is just too much going on; from taking oaths on the Quran, match fixing, and just about every person in charge being corrupt etc & thats what I mean when I said; It is OVER....

[shaykh1985]

Correct me if i'm wrong but the only way your family is in danger is if you made an agreement involving a broker and a gangster client at some point...

So there are those players who say no in the first place and whilst their places in the side may suffer their family will be fine...

The danger lies once you enter into an agreement cos essentially you are in the pocket of majeed and now have ridiculous amounts of money reliant on you...if you go back on your agreement you can lose someone a lot of money and lose the likes of majeed a client...

Once you agree once then repeat behaviour is expected from you both by the broker and by the client...this is where the pressure comes in and the coercion...so that insignificant wide you bowled one match is then increased to more serious things...the client expects this off you and if you dont deliver then these are the consequences...

Whilst its true that the players may have the life of their family riding on their performance...i would presume they would have agreed to something to be in the eyes of the gangsters themselves...

[asifp]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/doubts-plague-sydney-miracle/story-e6frg7mf-1225911625723

Former Pakistan coach Geoff Lawson told The Australian he had never heard of the agent involved and was suspicious of the claims. "If they have done that stuff then they get what they deserve," he said. "I know it is a tough call on these guys. I mean, they get hardly any money for playing and their country is underwater."

Corruption experts claim that greed is not always the motivating factor in players accepting money to fix matches and Lawson said he had heard of threats against cricketers' families while he was coach.

[tauseefm]

Too bad you cant think outside the box, ofcourse I am not saying ban Pakistan cricket all I am saying is; I dont see any future for you guys. The guy you have incharge running the whole PCB says it all, sorry I am just pointing out the bitter truth, some wont like it some will see my point. Keep playing the sport by all means and no one wants to ban or will ban you however be ready to get dragged down into the dumps on an ongoing basis....Its impossible to clean up Pakistan's cricket, there is just too much going on; from taking oaths on the Quran, match fixing, and just about every person in charge being corrupt etc & thats what I mean when I said; It is OVER....

Trust me we are not short of talent. Nobody knew about M Amir year and half ago. There are tons of fast bowler out there and waiting to get into team and as far our bating is concern we never had batsmen like Bradman or Tendulkar. we will hang in there and comeback stronger then ever.(at least we can hope)

[Indiafan]

Amazing, almost all the indian posters have been very...consistant with their 'bash Pakistan' posts recently

With me its because I love Pakistani cricket and talent to bits. I might not want them to do better than India but I follow them whenever I can. So, these incedents hurt me a lot. Its hurts me a lot to see talents like Amir and Umar being named. And the criticism I have in my posts is a reflection of my frusturation just as that of any other Pak fan

[Xoib]

Trust me we are not short of talent. Nobody knew about M Amir year and half ago. There are tons of fast bowler out there and waiting to get into team and as far our bating is concern we never had batsmen like Bradman or Tendulkar. we will hang in there and comeback stronger then ever.(at least we can hope)
lol...dream on.

[SOSami]

Too bad you cant think outside the box, ofcourse I am not saying ban Pakistan cricket all I am saying is; I dont see any future for you guys. The guy you have incharge running the whole PCB says it all, sorry I am just pointing out the bitter truth, some wont like it some will see my point. Keep playing the sport by all means and no one wants to ban or will ban you however be ready to get dragged down into the dumps on an ongoing basis....Its impossible to clean up Pakistan's cricket, there is just too much going on; from taking oaths on the Quran, match fixing, and just about every person in charge being corrupt etc & thats what I mean when I said; It is OVER....
Now is definitely not the time dude.

I am in absolutely no doubt that one day the true story of the IPL will come out and there will be nowhere to hide for some of your so-called greats. Let he without sin cast the first stone.

Anyone remember the 2010 IPL final where Pollard was held back until the match was over and he batted at No8? Maybe, that way Pollard didn't even have to be told about the fix. Tendulkar was the one who made the decision and Dhoni walked off with the title. It could be dodgy.

Pakistan may have been stung by this operation, but don't think for a second it is an issue isolated to Pakistani cricket. It's just India's financial clout that prevents detailed inspection and introspection.

Bury your head in the sand if you want dude, a lot of Pak fans did the same...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/2304953/Sir-Paul-Condon-raises-IPL-corruption-alarm.html

It will also be an issue within Indian national cricket, not confined to the IPL. Lets see what the investigtion into Lalit Modi throws up.

[Maula Jutt]

As was indicated on the discussion on the thread discussing why Younis and Afridi were supposedly cowards for leaving rather than speaking out..

The murky world of bookies, politicians and appointments within the PCB that go all the way up to Zardari, all tied together by dirty money is not childsplay.

Whistleblowing by YK and Afridi is something that may well not be feasible or even safe within the Pak environment at the moment. Based on personality, they are the bravest cricketers to play for Pakistan since Imran and if they of all people don't feel confident in speaking out, instead choosing to run for cover, I dread to think what must pressures may be applied to Pakistani cricketers.

It is never a simple case of purely taking money, especially for relatively wealthy players like Butt. Unfortunately, most of those threats are so serious players don't dare mention them even when questioned by committees, rather taking the flack themselves to protect their family and friends. Some, if not most of those guys who were involved will undoubtably deserve our sympathy. It goes beyond any pretence about individual responsibility or personal pride for cricketers, it often comes down to personal safety.

Lets damn the situation, but leave individual mud-slinging until the details are more clear.


Somebody talking sense. Thank you.

I understand that fans are angry at the players involved in this. But the resistance to entertain any reason other than money is what's ticking me off now. It's not like these kinds of threats haven't taken place before.

I would just ask the fans to see it from another point of view too. Place yourself in a player's boots and think what you'd have done had the bookies threatened your life or your family's. I'm sure many of us would have buckled under the same pressure.

I'm not saying that this is guaranteed. For all we know, our players might have just sold the country for a few bucks. But there are other possibilities too and I dont think we should be so stubborn in our stance until the investigations are over.

[Indiafan]

Anyone remember the 2010 IPL final where Pollard was held back until the match was over and he batted at No8? That way Pollard didn't even have to be told about the fix. Tendulkar was the one who made the decision and it was no surprise that in a fully predetermined match, Dhoni walked off with the title.

.

That would have been true if not for the fact that Pollard had come way down the order in each and every match of the series

[SOSami]

Yes, but it was blatently obvious holding him back was going to cost the match.

[tauseefm]

lol...dream on.

M Irfan is one name we can relay on with Gul. And i am pretty sure there will be quite a few fast bowlers in line who can be included in the team with little tweaking. I would rather look at the bright side then closing my eyes(like pigeon)

[UmarAkmals-fan]

Ofcourse there must be something to it, heck even OJ Simpson got away once.....

listen indian kid .WE R NOT IN MOOD FOR DEBATING WITH A TROLL ..GO TO ICF AND TROOL THERE FOR A WEEK AND COME BACK

[SOSami]

Somebody talking sense. Thank you.

I understand that fans are angry at the players involved in this. But the resistance to entertain any reason other than money is what's ticking me off now. It's not like these kinds of threats haven't taken place before.

I would just ask the fans to see it from another point of view too. Place yourself in a player's boots and think what you'd have done had the bookies threatened your life or your family's. I'm sure many of us would have buckled under the same pressure.

I'm not saying that this is guaranteed. For all we know, our players might have just sold the country for a few bucks. But there are other possibilities too and I dont think we should be so stubborn in our stance until the investigations are over.

Definitely dude.

Sometimes you have to go after the Generals rather than putting the foot-soldiers in dock. Just because they're the most visual representatives of the situation, doesn't make them the most guilty.

Amir has been exposed to international cricket since he was 17 and we expect too much from our youngsters, especially given the examples the older players set. As you say, putting ourselves in his position, even with the limited information we have should make us all feel for him. Holding's emotional reaction is not just of a wasted talent, but a tacit acknowledgement of what management have done to the kid.

Either way, this match fixing could go to the very top of the PCB. Salman Butt could never make such decisions on his own, or even purely with the support of his rookies.

[the SHA]

If it is true that players / their families have been threatened by gangsters then there really is no alternative. The players must be banned for life without exception and irrespective of their level of complicity.

That is the only way to deter gangsters from bothering to try to procure such 'investments'.

[Bilsher007]

Oh please, I dont buy this kidnap theory. So now there is a 'LOOP-HOLE' so these players who had done wrong to the country can escape so they get another chance to do it again in the future... I see no hope for Pakistan, like said by other posters here; Pakistan cricket is over, start following another country or another sport....


Pakistan cricket and Pakistan as a nation will never be over as much as you enemies of Pakistan love to see. Mohammed Aamer will INSHALLAh survive this .

[insaaniyat]

Gangsters are nasty people and will do all sorts of things. It is difficult in a lawless state like Pakistan to do the right thing, especially when the biggest crook is sat there as Head of State.

I do have some sympathy if true, but we have to get rid of this filth from top to bottom. It has gone on too long. The only way that is going to happen is if they are busted outside of Pakistan. Inside Pakistan the small thieves get caught whilst the big fish get off scot free (apart from a nice donation to judges and their ilk).

I don't know why but Wasim Akram's name comes to mind............er.........um.........of course I am not suggesting anything (without consulting a lawyer!)

I tend to agree with you. But these players must have taken the initiative first. And then later they wanted out and realized they couldn't. It happens all the time in those kinda environment. The truth is crime never pays. Was money that important that we put families in harm's way?

[Dare2Dream]

Correct me if i'm wrong but the only way your family is in danger is if you made an agreement involving a broker and a gangster client at some point...

So there are those players who say no in the first place and whilst their places in the side may suffer their family will be fine...

The danger lies once you enter into an agreement cos essentially you are in the pocket of majeed and now have ridiculous amounts of money reliant on you...if you go back on your agreement you can lose someone a lot of money and lose the likes of majeed a client...

Once you agree once then repeat behaviour is expected from you both by the broker and by the client...this is where the pressure comes in and the coercion...so that insignificant wide you bowled one match is then increased to more serious things...the client expects this off you and if you dont deliver then these are the consequences...

Whilst its true that the players may have the life of their family riding on their performance...i would presume they would have agreed to something to be in the eyes of the gangsters themselves...

Exactly, these bookies know which players would never do anything for them and which ones are looking for the "thrills" of life.

[Cricket_MN]

I don't buy this story.

They (pcb) kept on selecting the players who they thought would sell easily. That is the reason why Yunis was banned and other undeserving players were selected.

I guess now we also know why some of the player made debut even when they did not have a good domestic record.

[Maula Jutt]

Definitely dude.

Sometimes you have to go after the Generals rather than putting the foot-soldiers in dock. Just because they're the most visual representatives of the situation, doesn't make them the most guilty.

Amir has been exposed to international cricket since he was 17 and we expect too much from our youngsters, especially given the examples the older players set. As you say, putting ourselves in his position, even with the limited information we have should make us all feel for him. Holding's emotional reaction is not just of a wasted talent, but a tacit acknowledgement of what management have done to the kid.

Either way, this match fixing goes to the very top of the PCB. Salman Butt could never make such decisions on his own, or even purely with the support of his rookies.


Yep. Definitely bigger fish are involved. If these players are punished if proven guilty, but the higher-ups are let off scot free, then that in itself will be a huge travesty. Not to mention, match fixing will never leave our cricket. We'll keep losing stars and talent to it.

[Romali_rotti]

listen indian kid .WE R NOT IN MOOD FOR DEBATING WITH A TROLL ..GO TO ICF AND TROOL THERE FOR A WEEK AND COME BACK

Now now little boy if you rather be represented by a bunch of cheaters by all means back them till the end...

[Romali_rotti]

Pakistan cricket and Pakistan as a nation will never be over as much as you enemies of Pakistan love to see. Mohammed Aamer will INSHALLAh survive this .

So he can screw up again like Asif ?

[Waq]

I will ask again. Can anybody recall the rumour or genuine story that Wasim Akram's father was kidnapped by bookies.

It may have some relevance to this thread.

[KA$H]

guys can we quit the indo-pak bashing here and stick to the topic at hand

[ali110]

As far as I can remember, one blatant example of Wasim's match fixing was during the QF against indians in Banglore in 1996 WC, when he refused to play the game blaming some non-sense like flu and Aamir Sohail questioned his motive after the WC.