Misleading stats

[srh]

Stats can be really misleading. For example this stat was submitted by a Fawad Alam fan for ODI batting average. According to this stats the top 5 all time Pakistani ODI batsmen are:

1. Zaheer Abbas - 47.62 ave
2. Fawad Alam - 42.57 ave
3. Mohammad Yousuf - 42.26 ave
4. Javed Miandad - 41.70 ave
5. Inzimam-ul-Haq - 39.53 ave

But when you see each batsman's percentage of not outs:

1. Zaheer Abbas - 10% of Inns are not outs
2. Fawad Alam - 39.13% of Inns are not outs
3. Mohammad Yousuf - 15.04% of Inns are not outs
4. Javed Miandad - 18.81% of Inns are not outs
5. Inzimam-ul-Haq - 14.94% of Inns are not outs

The not outs have greatly increased Fawad Alam's batting ODI average. Fans should remember that stats can be really misleading.

[chui_kadoo]

Its not Fawad's fault that bowlers cant get him out. Atleast Fawad puts a price to his wicket unlike some others in the team

[*sallu*]

LOL, at this stage you can't even think about comparing Fawad to the batsmen at the top of that list

For one, Fawad has played only 25 games compared to 280, 233, 357 and 247 below him.

There is a high probability Fawad's average will drop with the more games he plays, but then again, if it doesn't over the course of his career, he will truly deserve to be in the top bracket in that list

[AZ]

:))) they don't want to get him out! it's in their favour to keep him at the crease :misbah

[madaboutlfc]

stats are never misleading especially for a batsman.. Fawads lack of style is not my cup of tea but so was Chanderpaul, Katich etc but these guys do their jobs.. It is not as if his first class average is well below his international one.. As for not outs when has not throwing away your wicket ever been a negative thing..

[Free Hit]

i dont know, who is the most dumber.

[chui_kadoo]

:))) they don't want to get him out! it's in their favour to keep him at the crease :misbah
LOL. Thats below the belt. Fawad fans will not be happy with that comment

[*sallu*]

Theres no doubt that those 4 guys with the most number of games have been Pakistan's top 4 ODI batsmen ever. Not a shred of doubt there. Inzi, Yousuf, Anwar and Miandad (in no particular order)
To average 40 over 300 games is a far greater achievement than to average 42 over 25 games (no discredit to fawad, and I whole heartedly do pray that he ends up with a 40+ average over the whole course of his career)

[kuptaan]

Yes lets blame the guy for staying not out. He stays not out because he usually comes in too late. He also PUTS A PRICE ON HIS WICKET. I highlight this because it's something very few of our other young batsmen do but is vital to be good batsman.

[madaboutlfc]

:))) they don't want to get him out! it's in their favour to keep him at the crease :misbah

a bit like Kallis.. ;)

[srh]

@ sallu. You are correct. I was very surprised that in the Fawad Alam appreciation thread, out of blue a Fawad Alam fan post the attached stats. Some fans are way OTT.

[talha3]

To be quite honest, i think fawad is improving. Today he ended up with a very decent strike rate. From 87 needed off 60, got the team to 4 needed off 2.

[shaykh1985]

Most of his not outs were at the beginning of his career...they havent been happening as often lately...

This year he averages 42.88 from 11 innings and only 2 of those innings have been not outs...one of which was a quickfire 20* against England and then his 59 today which you can hardly criticise him for...

Hes hit fifty in each of his last 3 series and yet he still gets criticism...

For someone who begun a post by criticising misleading stats you yourself have posted misleading stats...

[MalikMohsin]

As long as Fawad is in the team, there is possibility of running out to other batsman, causing the pressure on other batsman forced to approach aggressive shots, and he can never be finisher no matter what. Fawad is the batsman who can provide the runs by taking single, double....etc, and that too at the expense of possibility of running some one else out as well.

As Cricinfo rightly has pointed out that Fawad is Ravinder Jadega of Pakistan. That's sadly truth. Fawad has had opportunity to finish the game, but he couldn't. We know Hafeez, Farhat, Haider, Misbah are not batsman, and Younus is not good ODI batsman either. In today match after the impressive performance from our bowling attack, we had an opportunity to finish the game rather Fawad has ended up relying on Wahab and Ajmal to provide boundaries as they assumed Fawad wouldn't able to hit at all.

I am impressed by Wahab. I don't blame Ajmal either. We all know Fawad can't hit. I'd rather let Ajmal try to hit than Fawad would never hit at all or doesn't want to hit to prevent harming his average. I guess we have another Javed Miandad now.

[madaboutlfc]

As long as Fawad is in the team, there is possibility of running out to other batsman, causing the pressure on other batsman forced to approach aggressive shots, and he can never be finisher no matter what. Fawad is the batsman who can provide the runs by taking single, double....etc, and that too at the expense of possibility of running some one else out as well.

As Cricinfo rightly has pointed out that Fawad is Ravinder Jadega of Pakistan. That's sadly truth. Fawad has had opportunity to finish the game, but he couldn't. We know Hafeez, Farhat, Haider, Misbah are not batsman, and Younus is not good ODI batsman either. In today match after the impressive performance from our bowling attack, we had an opportunity to finish the game rather Fawad has ended up relying on Wahab and Ajmal to provide boundaries as they assumed Fawad wouldn't able to hit at all.

I am impressed by Wahab. I don't blame Ajmal either. We all know Fawad can't hit. I'd rather let Ajmal try to hit than Fawad would never hit at all or doesn't want to hit to prevent harming his average. I guess we have another Javed Miandad now.

really.. you really have lost the plot.. seriously mongish there

[fawad_wellwisher]

Most of his not outs were at the beginning of his career...they havent been happening as often lately...

This year he averages 42.88 from 11 innings and only 2 of those innings have been not outs...one of which was a quickfire 20* against England and then his 59 today which you can hardly criticise him for...

Hes hit fifty in each of his last 3 series and yet he still gets criticism...

For someone who begun a post by criticising misleading stats you yourself have posted misleading stats...

Already the OPer has created 2 threads to diss Fawad Alam even though he scored 50+ with an 80+ S/R. He doesn't see the subpar performance of those who batted before him and upped the RRR but instead chooses to attack Fawad just because he 'couldn't finish'.

His hatred of Fawad is well documented on PP so I wouldn't take him too seriously.

The fact of the matter is that Fawad will play the whole series whether anyone likes it or not. There are no other batsmen who are good enough to replace him at the moment.

Umar Akmal doesn't appear to have the temperament to succeed at this level. Plus after the spot fixing fiasco his name has been tainted along with his brother. I would think twice before playing him in the team.

[Fish]

The stat is not misleading, his batting average is factually correct. The criteria used to determine the top 5 all time Pakistani ODI batsmen is wrong.

[MalikMohsin]

really.. you really have lost the plot.. seriously mongish there

Javed Miandad is the legend. But he used to be nuisance sometimes for Pakistan. During his era, has forced other batsmen to take risks because he was so obsessed with century, and even at the expense of wasting more necessarily deliveries. But in Test, he truly was unbeaten batsman. He never was ODI batsman which is understandable, and what we saw the consequence of happening the other batsmen around him, and i fear we might be witnessing the same all over again. Fawad has to go. The other batsmen want to play for the average, but they were required to take some risks because someone wasn't good enough to hit or didn't want to.

I want Asad and other batsmen play freely with no needed pressure apply on them. Asad has his own dream of wanting to score century too, and he will do with the fine run rate unlike Fawad. That guy love the country, and sacrificed the honor of half century in England, only to speed the run rate up. Someone has to speed run rate up, and if everyone plays like Fawad, then the team will never make above 150. I guaranteed it.

[Blitz]

His SR doesn't cut it for this era.

Also, he has no other gear.

Kallis, Dravid, Chanderpaul have all had that extra gear when its needed.

Alam can't hit out to save his life.

[*sallu*]

His SR doesn't cut it for this era.

Also, he has no other gear.

Kallis, Dravid, Chanderpaul have all had that extra gear when its needed.

Alam can't hit out to save his life.

Kallis, Dravid, Changerpaul didn't have this extra gear when they started out. They developed it with time.

Hope and pray that Alam can do the same. Hes got time on his side.

[madaboutlfc]

Javed Miandad is the legend. But he used to be nuisance sometimes for Pakistan. During his era, has forced other batsmen to take risks because he was so obsessed with century, and even at the expense of wasting more necessarily deliveries. But in Test, he truly was unbeaten batsman. He never was ODI batsman which is understandable, and what we saw the consequence of happening the other batsmen around him, and i fear we might be witnessing the same all over again. Fawad has to go. The other batsmen want to play for the average, but they were required to take some risks because someone wasn't good enough to hit or didn't want to.

I want Asad and other batsmen play freely with no needed pressure apply on them.

really so him being the highest scorer for Pakistan in the 92 world cup is a myth and guiding Inzi along the way against NZ did not happen.. oh and the last ball 6 in Sharjah was a figment of my imagination. where the hell did you come up with this twaddle.. How old are you? seriously, you need to read up on miandads contribution.. the guy was a genius and him and Imran were the top 2 cricketers produced by Pakistan..

[Pakistani93]

:))) they don't want to get him out! it's in their favour to keep him at the crease :misbah

Did you even watch the game today Fawad Alam was the only batsman that took the game to South Africa

[madaboutlfc]

Did you even watch the game today Fawad Alam was the only batsman that took the game to South Africa

Hes a Lahori.. They hate all things from karachi.. although to be fair to him watching fawad alam is like trying to watch paint dry

[MalikMohsin]

really so him being the highest scorer for Pakistan in the 92 world cup is a myth and guiding Inzi along the way against NZ did not happen.. oh and the last ball 6 in Sharjah was a figment of my imagination. where the hell did you come up with this twaddle.. How old are you? seriously, you need to read up on miandads contribution.. the guy was a genius and him and Imran were the top 2 cricketers produced by Pakistan..

I have huge respect for him as the Legend and no one can replace him, and not even Inzimam. He is Legend in Test format. The discussion is not about his performance in Test format at all.

If you follow the whole career of his in ODI format, you will be convinced. I can not prove with stats but i have been following the cricket for a long time. However, i urge you to think of my post as opinion. Don't agree with my post if you aren't. No point of stretching this argument to furthermore. Because this thread is about Fawad Alam, and i only brought the topic for comparative of the pressure, running out wise, causing other batsman to take risk....etc. Remember, the conversation is not about the contribution comparative, and that's ridiculous. Javed Miandad is Legend.

However, i can not forget his contribution in WC 92. Even though, we somehow managed to reach to semi final by pure of luck. LOL

[jeetu]

Fawad has great stats for now , but his contribution overall is limited. 25 matches around 600 runs , gives 30 runs per match.
If he keeps 40 average till next 75 ODI then he will then he should be taken seriously no matter how many amounts of not-out he gets.

[kingusama92]

Fawad has great stats for now , but his contribution overall is limited. 25 matches around 600 runs , gives 30 runs per match.
If he keeps 40 average till next 75 ODI then he will then he should be taken seriously no matter how many amounts of not-out he gets.

You have to consider the position he bats in.

His type of batsman need to come in at #4.

[Gollum]

its silly to compare Fawad to the other batsmen in the list, i don't think he is or will ever be anywhere close to be as good as those guys...

having said that in the current scenario he is deservingly playing in the team...

[Tapori]

Err, he's not there after 25 - Wait till after 5 years.

People hate what they don't understand...

E.G. -

Makalele was clearly a rubbish footballer...

[coy0607]

thats a sad list.........only 4 people average over 40 in all time-odi cricket for pakistan...........most teams have 3-4 guys on their current teams averaging over 40

[Desire]

yep stats can be misleading occasionally but thats how selectors should select player most of the time. For fans, i dont care a 100 from fawad, would love to see 5 sixes from imran nazir instead but if i am a selector i will not select him.

[ShehryarK]

Hes a Lahori.. They hate all things from karachi..

Sick post. :pissed:

Please keep your petty prejudices to yourself. Maybe you think like a retarded racist (I sure hope not!), but the rest of us do not!

[ShehryarK]

Javed Miandad [...] never was ODI batsman which is understandable.

:facepalm:

You, sir, must be having a laugh!

Your posts in this thread denigrating Javed Miandad are coming across as seriously demented.

Miandad was arguably Pakistan's best ever ODI batsman. Arguably since some 'excel-junkies' prefer to use their calculators to appraise cricket! :)) Even for these bean-counters, Miandad's class as an ODI batsman is well known and established.

In fact, along with Zaheer, Inzi and Saeed Anwar, :jm will make every one's list of all-time top four Pakistani ODI batsmen!

He was great in Tests, our best ever, but it was in ODI's that Miandad's genius as a cricketer and as a batsman truly shone. A real match-winner - he was a finisher long before sloggers like Klusener and Bevan had even learnt to spell the word. A true fighter with a never say die spirit - snatching victory from the jaws of defeat time after time. And one of the fastest runners between the wickets, a real Jonty of his era. :))

Outside of the great West Indian team, Miandad and Dean Jones were, on aggregate, the two best ODI batsmen in the world in the 1980s. Miandad won a lot more matches for his team and so he ranks higher than DJ, at least IMHO.

[ShehryarK]

thats a sad list.........only 4 people average over 40 in all time-odi cricket for pakistan...........most teams have 3-4 guys on their current teams averaging over 40

Nothing sad about it - just shows that our brilliant ODI record over the past 40 years and our very strong results have been built on the back of team efforts, not individual brilliance.

Many very good ODI batsmen are not even on this list: Saleem Malik, Aamir Sohail, Younis Khan, etc.

Then you have your very solid 'utility' players also not here, guys like Ijaz Ahmed, Asif Mujtaba etc.

And then there are one-hit wonders, guys who played one or few memorable knocks and won matches but overall weren't that good: Basit Ali, Zahid Fazal, etc.

The point you made just reinforces the fact that Pakistan's ODI success is not built on one or two "stars".

[iafzal]

As long as Fawad is in the team, there is possibility of running out to other batsman, causing the pressure on other batsman forced to approach aggressive shots, and he can never be finisher no matter what. Fawad is the batsman who can provide the runs by taking single, double....etc, and that too at the expense of possibility of running some one else out as well.

As Cricinfo rightly has pointed out that Fawad is Ravinder Jadega of Pakistan. That's sadly truth. Fawad has had opportunity to finish the game, but he couldn't. We know Hafeez, Farhat, Haider, Misbah are not batsman, and Younus is not good ODI batsman either. In today match after the impressive performance from our bowling attack, we had an opportunity to finish the game rather Fawad has ended up relying on Wahab and Ajmal to provide boundaries as they assumed Fawad wouldn't able to hit at all.

I am impressed by Wahab. I don't blame Ajmal either. We all know Fawad can't hit. I'd rather let Ajmal try to hit than Fawad would never hit at all or doesn't want to hit to prevent harming his average. I guess we have another Javed Miandad now.

see for yourself if he can hit or not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cr6KQ1zsdM

[iafzal]

His SR doesn't cut it for this era.

Also, he has no other gear.

Kallis, Dravid, Chanderpaul have all had that extra gear when its needed.

Alam can't hit out to save his life.

he saved Pakistan life here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cr6KQ1zsdM

[AZ]

Did you even watch the game today Fawad Alam was the only batsman that took the game to South Africa

was at the stadium live, watched every minute of his 'great' innings.

how about you? did you only see the greatest hits on Youtube?

Hes a Lahori.. They hate all things from karachi.. although to be fair to him watching fawad alam is like trying to watch paint dry

LOL, bas yehi sunney ki deyr thi.

as expected, pathetic personal attacks when you can't argue the point.

[ShehryarK]

see for yourself if he can hit or not
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cr6KQ1zsdM

he saved Pakistan life here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cr6KQ1zsdM

They're both the same match and the same innings!

[Amjid Javed]

Fawad isnt really even an established player yet so cant really be compared against any pakistan players past or present

[Maula Jutt]

Funny thing about stats - if they work in favor of your argument, they are an end to the argument itself. If they dont go along your point of view, they are 'misleading.'

Stats are facts. Not opinions. Nothing arguable about it. Period.

Till now, Fawad deserves a spot in the list, no matter how many hernias it gives to his naysayers.

What we have to wait for is for him to play a considerable number of ODIs (it's about 25 now which is a small number when compared to others in that list) and then see if he is able to retain that position over that period of time. If he isn't able to, rest assured his stats will mirror it and his standing in the list will fall. I am sure the same people calling stats misleading will become newborn fans of stats then.

[aqeelPK]

LOL according to OP's theory, michael bevan is also not as great as his stats suggest. His average is 53.58, but runs scored per inns is 35.26.

[srh]

The stat is not misleading, his batting average is factually correct. The criteria used to determine the top 5 all time Pakistani ODI batsmen is wrong.
As mentioned in OP, it is not my criteria but a fan of Fawad Alam (fawad_wellwisher). I will never be that stupid to say Fawad Alam is a better batsman than the likes of Javed Miandad, Inzimam-ul-Haq, Saeed Anwar etc.

What would be your criteria Fish to determine the top 5 all time Pakistani ODI batsmen?

[pakcricketfan]

LOL!
Let Fawad play 40 more matches, then bring up these stats!
Silly to compare them at the moment!

:))) they don't want to get him out! it's in their favour to keep him at the crease :misbah

You obviously didn't listen to Morne Morkel and Johan Botha in the post-match interview.

[Pakprideuk]

he's mainly not out because he's batted at 6-7 for most of those games hence he stays not out a lot.

[fawad_wellwisher]

As mentioned in OP, it is not my criteria but a fan of Fawad Alam (fawad_wellwisher). I will never be that stupid to say Fawad Alam is a better batsman than the likes of Javed Miandad, Inzimam-ul-Haq, Saeed Anwar etc.

What would be your criteria Fish to determine the top 5 all time Pakistani ODI batsmen?

Don't be silly. I never said such a thing.

Once again so that you are clear -- the image shows the ODI averages of Pakistani batsmen who have played 20 or more matches. That Fawad is averaging 40+ in ODI in his career and this year is enough evidence is his favor to persist with him. Pakistan has a serious shortage of batting talent and that is the best we have got at the moment.

[farsiddiqui]

Stats can be really misleading. For example this stat was submitted by a Fawad Alam fan for ODI batting average. According to this stats the top 5 all time Pakistani ODI batsmen are:

1. Zaheer Abbas - 47.62 ave
2. Fawad Alam - 42.57 ave
3. Mohammad Yousuf - 42.26 ave
4. Javed Miandad - 41.70 ave
5. Inzimam-ul-Haq - 39.53 ave

But when you see each batsman's percentage of not outs:

1. Zaheer Abbas - 10% of Inns are not outs
2. Fawad Alam - 39.13% of Inns are not outs
3. Mohammad Yousuf - 15.04% of Inns are not outs
4. Javed Miandad - 18.81% of Inns are not outs
5. Inzimam-ul-Haq - 14.94% of Inns are not outs

The not outs have greatly increased Fawad Alam's batting ODI average. Fans should remember that stats can be really misleading.

The discrepancy here is not the difference in ratio of not-outs, but the number of matches played.

The only thing this list proves is that he should continue to play for Pakistan as long as he can continues to score at this rate.