Will a Tendulkar/Lara-esque Player Ever Play for the Pakistan Team?

[Theo_14]

I personally believe that a Lara or a Tendulkar can't really be developed, you just get lucky as a nation that you are blessed with such talent.

Im not sure we can ever have a batsman who scores so consistently and can dominate opposition bowling line ups because of the dominance of T20s and ODI's now batsman are more prone to try and score quickly which will lead to earlier dismissals.

However...

Nothing is impossibe, there's always been debates that Pakistan would not produce a better bowler then Wasim but Aamer proved us wrong.

Umar Akmal does seem to have the potential to be near the level of them two, not close but not far of, it's just...

He has been hidden away at 4-5 too much in ODI's and T20s, he deserves a consistent place in batting line up and watch him perform, we know he's got the shots just needs to improve his temperament.

Is there anyone in the side or at domestic level who has the potential to be near the level of the likes of Ponting, Tedulkar and Lara etc? Will we ever see Pakistan produce a world class batsman?

[Inswinger]

Hanif Mohamad, Javed Miandad, Inzimam, Saeed Anwar, Yousuf,Zaheer Abas, etc. We've had our fair share of world class batsmen.

[Theo_14]

Hanif Mohamad, Javed Miandad, Inzimam, Saeed Anwar, Yousuf,Zaheer Abas, etc. We've had our fair share of world class batsmen.

There's no doubt that Pakistan have produced world class batsmens in the past but I meant as in today's cricket, the present... Whether we will see Pakistan produce another world class batsman or even in same class as Lara or Tendulkar.

[Fireworks11]

Umar Akmal is the most exciting dasher that has emerged out of the latest crop of youngsters. He certainly has the potential to be a great.

[hasanmehmoodkhan]

umar should bat at 3 or 4

[zaid65]

At the moment, we are known to produce 3rd class ( Afridi-esque) players than first class (Tendulkar or Lara-esque) players.

[cricket_coach]

Actually all the batters are genuinely natural 20:20 player. There in lies the future....

[AZ]

^ then how come we suck at T20?

[fusebulb]

They are once in a lifetime players, i doubt if even India or West Indies can produce such greats again very unlikely

[Garuda]

From the current crop I don't see any. Don't know about anyone in the domestic circle.

With Tendulkar or Lara, they were immediate hits as soon as they started their career. They never took long time to show their class in international arena.

So one day some young guy may surprise us and by looking at him it will look obvious that yes he is the one.

No one at this moment give that confidence to be honest.

[cricket_coach]

Blame the bowlers :kami

[freelance_cricketer]

I agree with you, you just get lucky as a nation to have a chosen one like Tendulkar take birth in your country. Someone who's just better than the rest and with ease.. With all the craze for cricket ion Pakistan, no doubt Pakistan too can come up with a guy with that divine stuff. Just a matter of time and luck

[Garuda]

Also one need to look at Tendulkar's teen age (before coming to national team) schedules to understand why he is what he is today.

I donno much about Lara but Sachin had devoted a lot of time to his cricket during his early age (10 - 16). Its very difficult as a kid to get motivated to practice so long.

Playing cricket as kid is different than these hours long practice to learn technique.

[lipton]

Virat Kohli and Suresh Raina are Lara-Tendulkar type of players. no doubt on that

[Mobashir]

Actually all the batters are genuinely natural 20:20 player. There in lies the future....

Apart from Umar Akmal there is no midle order batsmen in Pakistan that can be selected for a T20 team.
All are good for ODIs, Tests..

[Dr. Schaden Freud]

Kohli could be a great if he keeps improving the way he has been.

But, there is absolutely no way Raina could come close to the likes of Lara or Tendulkar.

[Mobashir]

Virat Kohli and Suresh Raina are Lara-Tendulkar type of players. no doubt on that

You said this for fun!:yk

[Garuda]

Virat Kohli and Suresh Raina are Lara-Tendulkar type of players. no doubt on that
Kohli may be (if he can keep his feet down like Sachin and keep learning).

Raina, I doubt. His shots are very limited. Effective in LOI though.

[Statsman]

Also one need to look at Tendulkar's teen age (before coming to national team) schedules to understand why he is what he is today.

I donno much about Lara but Sachin had devoted a lot of time to his cricket during his early age (10 - 16). Its very difficult as a kid to get motivated to practice so long.

Playing cricket as kid is different than these hours long practice to learn technique.

Same with Lara. He started playing cricket at an age of 6 years, and was almost as hyped as Sachin was before entering the International arena. Many renowned West Indian cricketers who saw him play termed him a potential great when he was still in his teens.

P.s. We should totally a Lara smiley!

[lipton]

You said this for fun!:yk

Nope, I really do mean it hah

[cricket_coach]

Apart from Umar Akmal there is no midle order batsmen in Pakistan that can be selected for a T20 team.
All are good for ODIs, Tests..

You are joking.... Apart from Misbah all of them try to follow the captains lead. And i think Misbah is most hated batsman among the fans right now

[Mobashir]

Nope, I really do mean it hah

Kholi is yet to play Test cricket, so I wont comment on him by Suresh Raina, I doubt he will even be selected again for India in Test matches.

[Mobashir]

You are joking.... Apart from Misbah all of them try to follow the captains lead. And i think Misbah is most hated batsman among the fans right now

Ok so I let you give me few names of Midle order pakistani batsmen that can play T20 cricket apart from Umar Akmal.

[Statsman]

Kholi is yet to play Test cricket, so I wont comment on him by Suresh Raina, I doubt he will even be selected again for India in Test matches.

Pujara>Kohli>>>>Raina


But hey, aren't we talking about Pakistan here. Lets not deviate ;-)

[cricket_coach]

Raina cant play a short ball. If he reaches anywhere near Anwar or Gangulys class that will be a big achievement for him.
Kohli hasnt played enough to be worth mentioning

[Mobashir]

Pujara>Kohli>>>>Raina


But hey, aren't we talking about Pakistan here. Lets not deviate ;-)

From Pakistan there is only Umar Akmal, but Misbah has dropped him from the Test team and worst, a lot of PPers agree with the fact that Umar Akmal should not be in the test team...
So i prefer not to talk about Pakistan...
I don't rate Azhar Ali high, Asad Shafik may become a good batsman, but he not more than a 40-45 average batsman.
The only one is Umar Akmal, And when I think about the sentece "Misbah has dropped Umar Akmal" that's make me angry... Akmal is 100 times better than this fool Misbah.

[Garuda]

Same with Lara. He started playing cricket at an age of 6 years, and was almost as hyped as Sachin was before entering the International arena. Many renowned West Indian cricketers who saw him play termed him a potential great when he was still in his teens.

P.s. We should totally a Lara smiley!
Thank for that info.

So its same with both legends. Hence if we are expecting someone of their caliber we will know as soon as he comes.

[Mobashir]

Thank for that info.

So its same with both legends. Hence if we are expecting someone of their caliber we will know as soon as he comes.

I don't know about other PPers, but I had a lot of hopes on Umar Akmal when he came in the eam as he is a very good batsman since U19 levels.

[MCMLXXXII]

I don't think Pakistan has the pitches to produce such a batsman. Only when we improve the standard at our domestic cricket and provide quality pitches to grow on, all the batsmen will prove to be circumspect at the international level yet alone be like Lara or Tendulkar.

[cricket_coach]

Ok so I let you give me few names of Midle order pakistani batsmen that can play T20 cricket apart from Umar Akmal.
Asad, Kamran,Umar, Afridi are all very gifted t20 batmen. Problem is yjey aint playing enough quality cricket to boost their confodence

[RehanG]

Asad Ramesh Shafique
Misbah Charles Haq
Umar Rickey Akmal

[babu]

From Pakistan there is only Umar Akmal, but Misbah has dropped him from the Test team and worst, a lot of PPers agree with the fact that Umar Akmal should not be in the test team...
So i prefer not to talk about Pakistan...
I don't rate Azhar Ali high, Asad Shafik may become a good batsman, but he not more than a 40-45 average batsman.
The only one is Umar Akmal, And when I think about the sentece "Misbah has dropped Umar Akmal" that's make me angry... Akmal is 100 times better than this fool Misbah.

i can only laugh at your post.

you wrote "but he not more than a 40-45 average batsman". so having average of 40 to 45 is not good?.

[Junior_Akmal]

Umar and Asad are potential candidates.

[Statsman]

From Pakistan there is only Umar Akmal, but Misbah has dropped him from the Test team and worst, a lot of PPers agree with the fact that Umar Akmal should not be in the test team...
So i prefer not to talk about Pakistan...
I don't rate Azhar Ali high, Asad Shafik may become a good batsman, but he not more than a 40-45 average batsman.
The only one is Umar Akmal, And when I think about the sentece "Misbah has dropped Umar Akmal" that's make me angry... Akmal is 100 times better than this fool Misbah.

Umar Akmal does have it in him and IMO no Misbah/PCB can ever stop him if he plays with dedication and justifies his talent. Don't worry.

[Badsha]

Aamir did not prove he was better than Akram. He would've had he performed the way he was for AT LEAST six or seven more years.

[zaid65]

There will be no batsman like Sachin anymore. Cricket has become fast pace game, T20 has changed the pace of the game. One more thing to keep in mind, review system will not allow any player to take advantage of the bias umpiring, so batsmen will not be able to score tons of runs anymore.

[Rana]

nah dont think so.

We should be asking wether a Moyo or Inzi type batsman ever play for pakistan. Tendulkar and Lara were one of a kind.

[Theo_14]

Aamir did not prove he was better than Akram. He would've had he performed the way he was for AT LEAST six or seven more years.

It was obvious that Aamer was heading towards the right directions of proving fans wrong that Wasim wasn't the only and last world class bowler Pakistan were going to produce infact even the great Wasim said that Aamer was producing more quality then Wasim did during Aamer's age.

[zarak]

I personally believe that a Lara or a Tendulkar can't really be developed, you just get lucky as a nation that you are blessed with such talent.

Im not sure we can ever have a batsman who scores so consistently and can dominate opposition bowling line ups because of the dominance of T20s and ODI's now batsman are more prone to try and score quickly which will lead to earlier dismissals.

However...

Nothing is impossibe, there's always been debates that Pakistan would not produce a better bowler then Wasim but Aamer proved us wrong.

Umar Akmal does seem to have the potential to be near the level of them two, not close but not far of, it's just...

He has been hidden away at 4-5 too much in ODI's and T20s, he deserves a consistent place in batting line up and watch him perform, we know he's got the shots just needs to improve his temperament.

Is there anyone in the side or at domestic level who has the potential to be near the level of the likes of Ponting, Tedulkar and Lara etc? Will we ever see Pakistan produce a world class batsman?

dont forget..umar is 20 years old..tendulkar started lower down as well...let him learn his game and then watch him blossom

[Mobashir]

i can only laugh at your post.

you wrote "but he not more than a 40-45 average batsman". so having average of 40 to 45 is not good?.

Where did I say an average of 40-45 is not good? 45 is even very good but you can' t become a Lara, Tendulkar with this kind of averages... This is what I meant.
But even if we don' t look at averages, Shafik hasn' t got thr game to become a legend like these two.
Only Umar Akmal has it in the present test squad.

Ahmad Shehzad has shown that he can make a hundreds, but it' s too early to judge him, he is yet to play Test cricket.

[MajidBhuta-AamirFan]

u can add 3000-4000 runs for inzi's total if he had played all his career for india!

just look at the class of inzi when both tendulkar and inzi playing in same matches in same conditions on the same wickets!

or u can compare inzi with lara when both playing same matches with same conditions!

inzi's biggest issue was his number of runouts.. otheriwise u can easily add 3-5 more runs in avg in odis cricket!
for me inzi was not less class batsman from tendu, lara and ponting but was definitely 7 years shorter career than tendulkar, you can guess how many runs inzi could have make in 7 years specailly on india pitches..
all credit goes to tendulkar for keeping himself fit for so long and almost always in form for batting as well.
but if we are talking the class inzi was not less at from tendulkar for me, i don't care the what billion indians says! i know inzi won even more matches than tendulkar for my dad's country!

[Mobashir]

Asad, Kamran,Umar, Afridi are all very gifted t20 batmen. Problem is yjey aint playing enough quality cricket to boost their confodence

Asad averages under 15 and strike rate under 100 in Pakistan domestic T20' s so I don' t know how can you consider him as a good T20 batsman.
Kamran is an opener for us in t20's.
So again, Umar Akmal is our only midle order batsman that can play t20 international. The other one is Shoaib Malik but he is out of the team.

Azhar Ali, Asad Shafik, Fawad Alam, Umar Amin, Naved Yasin all have game suited to the longer formats.

[MAJID-SHAH]

Umar akmal certainly has the potential to become a tendu/lara-esque type batsmen.

[Inzy's Aloo]

Who needs a Tendulkar or Lara when you have the classy left hander :amin

[Theo_14]

PPers agree with the fact that Umar Akmal should not be in the test team...

And I agree with those PP'ers.

Umar Akmal for now... Should only focus on ODI's and T20s - establish himself, allow him to gain some experience and once he starts to show maturity and composure consistently then I don't see why he can't make the test side.

Asad Shafik may become a good batsman, but he not more than a 40-45 average batsman.

If Asad Shafiq manages to average 40 or even 45 then the word "good" is not even close enough to describe the batsman.

It's going to be tougher for younger batsmen to have a higher average considering the pace of the game is quicker, pitches are more difficult to play on and UDRS system will slim their chances of getting away so average of 40-45 would be a great achievement for Asad.

Asad may not be as talented as Umar Akmal but Asad has the ideal attributes to suceed in the toughest format of the game which are composure, maturity and temperament.

[Junior_Akmal]

And I agree with those PP'ers.

Umar Akmal for now... Should only focus on ODI's and T20s - establish himself, allow him to gain some experience and once he starts to show maturity and composure consistently then I don't see why he can't make the test side.



If Asad Shafiq manages to average 40 or even 45 then the word "good" is not even close enough to describe the batsman.

It's going to be tougher for younger batsmen to have a higher average considering the pace of the game is quicker, pitches are more difficult to play on and UDRS system will slim their chances of getting away so average of 40-45 would be a great achievement for Asad.

Asad may not be as talented as Umar Akmal but Asad has the ideal attributes to suceed in the toughest format of the game which are composure, maturity and temperament.

Asad is also 4 to 5 years older than Umar. Come on guys, maturity comes with age and experience. Certainly, Asad has maturity and domestic experience on his side. Umar will come good and will be a great batsman. How great, only time will tell though.

[Theo_14]

Asad is also 4 to 5 years older than Umar.

If Misbah can play a key role in the ODI's and the longer format of the game at the age of 35/36, then I don't see why Asad can't serve another 11 years of service for Pakistan if manages to perform consistently and also keeps a healthy diet.

Come on guys, maturity comes with age and experience.

Which is why Umar Akmal should focus on the ODI's and T20s for now and once he fully established and has plenty of experience under his name then he should consider playing in the toughest format of the game.

Of course in terms of talent and potential, Umar Akmal is ahead of Asad but right now Asad seems more promising when it comes him competing in the longer format of the game.

[MajidBhuta-AamirFan]

Asad is also 4 to 5 years older than Umar. Come on guys, maturity comes with age and experience. Certainly, Asad has maturity and domestic experience on his side. Umar will come good and will be a great batsman. How great, only time will tell though.

if umer akmal's has same kind of kamran type brain then he will not be mature rest of his life but if his brain is different then his brother kamran akmal then there is huge chance he can become mature and good batsman!

[Fozz]

Umar akmal certainly has the potential to become a tendu/lara-esque type batsmen.

He'll need a legendary, memorable innings within the next 2-3 years for that to happen. Either that or an amazing streak of ODI centuries.

[ZenBowman]

Umar Akmal
Babar Azam

[Theo_14]

Umar Akmal
Babar Azam

Haven't see much of him - but heard good things about him although there hasn't been a "major hype" related to him.

Batting has always been Pakistan's weakest link but the current crop of youngsters look promising (ie Asad, Umar Akmal, A. Ali etc) - just with the support of PCB, who knows Pakistan may produce another world class bowler.

[ZenBowman]

Haven't see much of him - but heard good things about him although there hasn't been a "major hype" related to him.

Batting has always been Pakistan's weakest link but the current crop of youngsters look promising (ie Asad, Umar Akmal, A. Ali etc) - just with the support of PCB, who knows Pakistan may produce another world class bowler.

He is a cousin of Kamran, that is enough for me.

:kami

[Howzat]

He is a cousin of Kamran, that is enough for me.

:kami

Another one? What is this, some attack of the clones? Some plan to take over the world? I am scared.

[GOAT]

Babar's been earmarked for big things by a lot of people, fyi.

[Looney]

Another one? What is this, some attack of the clones? Some plan to take over the world? I am scared.

They still do not beat :

Mushtaq Mohammad
Wazir Mohammad
Raees Mohammad
Sadiq Mohammad
Hanif Mohammad

:kami :umarakmal :adnan

[Fozz]

Babar Azam is 16 years old.

[cornered-tigers]

What rubbish, Javed, Majid, Inzi and Hanif were in the same league as the two mentioned here, I prefer Javed over tendulkar for his impossible fighting abilities that Teenda lack period!
The question is will India ever produce a bowler even of the caliber of Aqib Javed!?

[cornered-tigers]

The reason AMir was better than Akram at the early age is because Amir was able to get wickets, so he knew the art of taking wickets and hit the ground running, whereas it took a few years for Akram under Imran to get to that kind of art. I have watched Akram from his first match tot he last and also Amer,

[GOAT]

OP is talking about modern greats, and it's a very fair question IMO.

[cornered-tigers]

Lara is the past, so you are have conflicting statements,

[s2k]

The reason AMir was better than Akram at the early age is because Amir was able to get wickets, so he knew the art of taking wickets and hit the ground running, whereas it took a few years for Akram under Imran to get to that kind of art. I have watched Akram from his first match tot he last and also Amer,

What rubbish, Javed, Majid, Inzi and Hanif were in the same league as the two mentioned here, I prefer Javed over tendulkar for his impossible fighting abilities that Teenda lack period!
The question is will India ever produce a bowler even of the caliber of Aqib Javed!?

You kidding right.........

Inzi failed miserably againist top teams like AUS SA avging in 20s

Majid Khan avgs a brilliant 35 over all in his career

Hanif avgd 44 in his career

And you compare them to legends like Lara and Tendulkar....Some biased senses you have.

Only Miandad was a WC batsman among them who avgd 50+ in his career and managed to avg 45+ outside Pakistan.Though he had his struggles againist WI but over all he was quite good.



And you are comparing a Legend like Wasim to a cheating fixer like Aamer.

Aamer played 14 matches took 51 wickets @ 29

In his 1st 14 matches Wasim took 45 wickets@26

Aamer played most of his test matches in AUS ENG and NZ

while only 2 of Wasim's 1st 14 matches were outside the subcontinent.

So much for Aamer being a better starter than Wasim.

[AZ]

:majid's averages are above 35 in both formats.

[GOAT]

You kidding right.........

Inzi failed miserably againist top teams like AUS SA avging in 20s

Majid Khan avgs a brilliant 35 over all in his career

Hanif avgd 44 in his career

And you compare them to legends like Lara and Tendulkar....Some biased senses you have.

Only Miandad was a WC batsman among them who avgd 50+ in his career and managed to avg 45+ outside Pakistan.Though he had his struggles againist WI but over all he was quite good.

Do not ever insult Hanif Muhammad. This man is pivotal for the advancement of Asian's in Test cricket, show some respect for a legend that scored the first triple ton by an Asian cricketer ever and has an FC score of 499.

Hanif averaged 44 in an era of no protection, against well established teams and lethal bowlers. That speaks volumes about how good the man was.

[s2k]

Do not ever insult Hanif Muhammad. This man is pivotal for the advancement of Asian's in Test cricket, show some respect for a legend that scored the first triple ton by an Asian cricketer ever and has an FC score of 499.

Hanif averaged 44 in an era of no protection, against well established teams and lethal bowlers. That speaks volumes about how good the man was.

So h scored a triple?that makes him a legend?by similar counts Andy Sandham,Mark Taylor,Jayasuriya,Jayawardene etc are legends as well?

1st class scores means zilch,

regarding his role in advancement of Asian test cricket.....Indian batsmen Vijay Hazare and Vijay Merchant who played in th same era avg better than him playing againist the same teams.

He was Pakistan's best batsmen of those days,yes....a Batsmen in the league of Lara Tendulkar etc...no way not even close.

[cricket_coach]

Asad averages under 15 and strike rate under 100 in Pakistan domestic T20' s so I don' t know how can you consider him as a good T20 batsman.
Kamran is an opener for us in t20's.
So again, Umar Akmal is our only midle order batsman that can play t20 international. The other one is Shoaib Malik but he is out of the team.

Azhar Ali, Asad Shafik, Fawad Alam, Umar Amin, Naved Yasin all have game suited to the longer formats.

Problem is these players need exposure. IPL would be good ground to get it. Boost the confidence. Rejecting them based on odi performance is very naive

[GOAT]

Indian posters seem to have very little respect, if you guys ever wonder why people don't like Tendulkar and co, look only at yourselves.

A triple ton is something no Indian but Sehwag has managed. It takes skill and determination, something that evidently, Indian batsmen don't have.

I'm not saying he's a legend in the same vein - because he's not, but don't walk all over him like you are s2k. He's much better than you're giving him credit for.

[James]

What rubbish, Javed, Majid, Inzi and Hanif were in the same league as the two mentioned here, I prefer Javed over tendulkar for his impossible fighting abilities that Teenda lack period!?

Ah Pakistan v India discussions never fail to throw up a few gems...

[s2k]

Indian posters seem to have very little respect, if you guys ever wonder why people don't like Tendulkar and co, look only at yourselves.

A triple ton is something no Indian but Sehwag has managed. It takes skill and determination, something that evidently, Indian batsmen don't have.

I'm not saying he's a legend in the same vein - because he's not, but don't walk all over him like you are s2k. He's much better than you're giving him credit for.

I gave him credit for being the best Pakistani batsman of his time,H was better than most Pakistani batsmen except Miandad and may be YK.He was better than Inzi may be.You must see the post i quoted to answer.He evidently compared him to Lara Tendulkar etc.

I doesnt matter if a few posters at PP dont respect Tendulkar,wont take away his achievements.Will it?Its for the world to see.

Regarding respect,people here compare Sehwag to Nazir and say Nazir is better.Compare Salman Butt to Gambhir and so on.

Regarding the technique and determination of Indian batsmen.....lol at a Pakistani comparing Indian batsmen to Pakistani ones.......

[MajidBhuta-AamirFan]

The reason AMir was better than Akram at the early age is because Amir was able to get wickets, so he knew the art of taking wickets and hit the ground running, whereas it took a few years for Akram under Imran to get to that kind of art. I have watched Akram from his first match tot he last and also Amer,

i don't know why people love to make their own theories, you said wasim took some time to take wickets.. then you need really look the follwing link and need to learn read stats once again.

let me tell you one thing wasim took 10 wickets in his second test match

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43547.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround; view=match

in first 14 matches
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43547.html?class=1;spanmax1=07+mar+1987;spanval1=s pan;template=results;type=allround
aamir in first 14 matches

after first 14 matches wasim has every single better stats than aamir axcept number of wickets where aamir took 51 and wasim took 45.. six wickets difference, can i tell you surprising thing that wasim played only two matches on green top pitches in nz where as aamer played 11 matches on green tops.. just think if wasim had 11 matches out of 14 in green tops he could have 70-80 wickets in same number of matches.. wasim took 10 wickets in hist second match.. how u can say he did learn taking wicketer later???? very surprise theories to me..
i have seen both bowling from day one, i could pick wasim for my team without even wasting single minutes for thinking! wasim was srtaight forward match winnder from day one! in the wasim first 14 matches 10 were in subcontinent where most matches ended with one innings.. and still he was 6 wickets behind from aamer who played 11 matches out of 14 one bowling heavens!

wasim second match 10 wickets, aamir max wickets in a match were 7. wasim avg on very flat indian and pakistan tracks were 26 and while aamir avg was 29...

[Wanton]

i don't know why people love to make their own theories, you said wasim took some time to take wickets.. then you need really look the follwing link and need to learn read stats once again.

let me tell you one thing wasim took 10 wickets in his second test match

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43547.html?class=1;template=results;type=allround; view=match

in first 14 matches
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/43547.html?class=1;spanmax1=07+mar+1987;spanval1=s pan;template=results;type=allround
aamir in first 14 matches

after first 14 matches wasim has every single better stats than aamir axcept number of wickets where aamir took 51 and wasim took 45.. six wickets difference, can i tell you surprising thing that wasim played only two matches on green top pitches in nz where as aamer played 11 matches on green tops.. just think if wasim had 11 matches out of 14 in green tops he could have 70-80 wickets in same number of matches.. wasim took 10 wickets in hist second match.. how u can say he did learn taking wicketer later???? very surprise theories to me..
i have seen both bowling from day one, i could pick wasim for my team without even wasting single minutes for thinking! wasim was srtaight forward match winnder from day one! in the wasim first 14 matches 10 were in subcontinent where most matches ended with one innings.. and still he was 6 wickets behind from aamer who played 11 matches out of 14 one bowling heavens!

wasim second match 10 wickets, aamir max wickets in a match were 7. wasim avg on very flat indian and pakistan tracks were 26 and while aamir avg was 29...

Wasim took first 5er in ODI's within first 5 matches.

[Theo_14]

The reason AMir was better than Akram at the early age is because Amir was able to get wickets, so he knew the art of taking wickets and hit the ground running, whereas it took a few years for Akram under Imran to get to that kind of art. I have watched Akram from his first match tot he last and also Amer,

Read the first and third post of the thread and the post quoted below...

OP is talking about modern greats, and it's a very fair question IMO.

[Assadrulz]

So h scored a triple?that makes him a legend?by similar counts Andy Sandham,Mark Taylor,Jayasuriya,Jayawardene etc are legends as well?

1st class scores means zilch,

regarding his role in advancement of Asian test cricket.....Indian batsmen Vijay Hazare and Vijay Merchant who played in th same era avg better than him playing againist the same teams.

He was Pakistan's best batsmen of those days,yes....a Batsmen in the league of Lara Tendulkar etc...no way not even close.


For the life of me I can't figure out why you Indians have to come to Pakistani platforms and have the audacity to belittle our heroes..Sachin is a champion..no doubt about it..but just the fact that you have the audacity to talk about hanif mohammad( a player i bet you know nothing about other than the statistics you picked up on cricinfo) with such a condescending attitude...it pisses us off...so do us a favour..shut the hell up...and if you wanna stay on our platform then behave yourself and keep your uninformed rants to yourself...

P.S My guess is that Vijay Hazare and Vijay Merchant spent the majority of their careers batting on the roads in India...their high averages do not surprise me...These are probably the same guys who used to quake in their pants at the sight of imran and sarfraz...

[SameerP]

I dont even think even India or any other country will ever see another Tendulkar again....

[Fozz]

I gave him credit for being the best Pakistani batsman of his time,H was better than most Pakistani batsmen except Miandad and may be YK.He was better than Inzi may be.You must see the post i quoted to answer.He evidently compared him to Lara Tendulkar etc.

I doesnt matter if a few posters at PP dont respect Tendulkar,wont take away his achievements.Will it?Its for the world to see.

Regarding respect,people here compare Sehwag to Nazir and say Nazir is better.Compare Salman Butt to Gambhir and so on.

Regarding the technique and determination of Indian batsmen.....lol at a Pakistani comparing Indian batsmen to Pakistani ones.......
Hanif Muhammad's triple century was the second highest test score on record at the time, and like someone said earlier, it greatly helped spread cricket in the subcontinent. Also, Hanif had the highest first class score, 499, until Brian Lara broke that record in the 1990s.

So to sum it up, Hanif Muhammad definitely was in the league of Brian Lara, and he made the ICC Hall of Fame for a reason.

[Theo_14]

Who needs a Tendulkar or Lara when you have the classy left hander :amin

I guess one reason why we "may" not see Pakistan produce another World class batsman is because of the way the PCB develop youngsters.

Such as Umar Amin, he was clearly developed badly... Was given debut against a 2 world class sides, in tough conditions with no experience in the side to look up to and to add to that... He wasn't given a chance after that either but the whole point is that PCB must develop youngsters better.

PCB have indeed looked promising so far - giving Shehzad a fair run of games and it's proving to be worthy, so let's hope in the near future PCB develop/treat youngsters properly if we are to witness their full potential... Important step if we are to see a World class batsman in today's cricket.

[Genghis]

I guess one reason why we "may" not see Pakistan produce another World class batsman is because of the way the PCB develop youngsters.

Such as Umar Amin, he was clearly developed badly... Was given debut against a 2 world class sides, in tough conditions with no experience in the side to look up to and to add to that... He wasn't given a chance after that either but the whole point is that PCB must develop youngsters better.

PCB have indeed looked promising so far - giving Shehzad a fair run of games and it's proving to be worthy, so let's hope in the near future PCB develop/treat youngsters properly if we are to witness their full potential... Important step if we are to see a World class batsman in today's cricket.
Umar Amin was given the same opportunity as Azhar Ali. Azhar although might not have the talent and skill of Umar, he showed better temperament and application. Our players are always quick to blame the PCB and its selectors but as with any new player given an opportunity in an international team, you only get a few chances and you have to make the most of it. Unfortunately for Umar Amin he didn't make full use of it, and hence he is back down the pecking order. It's really up to him now to fight his way back into the team.

As far as the question is concerned, why not? Miandad was brought through the same system, Inzy, Moyo, Zaheer Abbas they all came through the same PCB system. I don't see anyone in the current batsmen (not Shafiq, not U Akmal) who could finish as greats in the game, but who's to say we won't see someone soon.

[Genghis]

By the way Tendulkar's first four international games were a test series against Pakistan in Pakistan. It was against a Pakistani side which included Wasim, Waqar, Imran and Abdul Qadir. Yet he still performed admirably.

Surprisingly Lara's first test match was also against a Pakistani side in Pakistan which included Wasim, Waqar, Imran and Abdul Qadir. He made 44 runs in the first innings and 5 in the second.

[kingusama92]

Hoping for a Tendulkar/Lara is definitely based on luck. You cannot manufacture such legendary cricketers.

I don't think there is anyone in our domestic system of that caliber.

There are a few talents that have promise and could go a long way. Plus, there is the flamboyant Umar Akmal in the team at the moment. I don't think he will reach the stature of those players, but he could become a great batsman.

Pakistan should not be waiting for someone talented to just show up. Pakistan will have to seek out emerging talent and develop it properly. Yes, I realize the PCB is not renowned for being fair with it's youngsters. However, Pakistan will have to go down that route otherwise things won't be changing anytime soon!

Hasan Raza is a prime example of what should NOT be occurring with young talent. He was thrown into international cricket at a young age assuming he is "Pakistan's Tendulkar". Fine, I can understand the PCB's feeling that Raza was a "generational talent". He really was churning out runs. However, once they realized he needs refining - they just pushed him aside! There was no guidance to the teenager and sporadic selection meant he was continuously wasted.

Let's hope the PCB doesn't waste more talent.

[AZ]

I think Ponting and Gilchrist also debuted against Pak?

we make legends and lallus alike. :asif

[SameerP]

I think Ponting and Gilchrist also debuted against Pak?

we make legends and lallus alike. :asif

I dont think Ponting made his debut against Pakistan but I am sure Gilchrist made his test debut against Pakistan, he played that match winning knock of 150 at Hobart

[Genghis]

I think Ponting and Gilchrist also debuted against Pak?

Not quite. Ponting test debut was against Sri Lanka and his ODI debut was against South Africa.

Gilchrist did make his test debut against Pakistan here in Brisbane at the Gabba. But he had already been playing ODI for 3 years waiting in the wings of Ian Healy.

[GOAT]

genghis, just curious why you don't rate Umar as a prospective legend?

[Genghis]

genghis, just curious why you don't rate Umar as a prospective legend?
Because he doesn't have the temperament in my opinion. He has all the shots in the book but doesn't know how to utilise them. The talent is definitely there but I see him more like a young Yuvraj rather than a young Tendulkar.

[Ironcat]

To the OP, maybe not. But neither will one for India or WI either. Miandad in 80s. Lara in 90s. Tendy in '00s.

[SG]

Tendulkar's best ever years were in '90s. Its just that he is so bloody good that he had a very good '00s as well except some aberrations like '03 and '06.

[the Great Khan]

We have bradman= Malik..who needs tendu??

[haroonrasheed320]

Thank for that info.

So its same with both legends. Hence if we are expecting someone of their caliber we will know as soon as he comes.

No, because logically speaking there are many other batsmen who were rated high by everyone but failed eventually, so not every prediction can be successful.

[s2k]

For the life of me I can't figure out why you Indians have to come to Pakistani platforms and have the audacity to belittle our heroes..Sachin is a champion..no doubt about it..but just the fact that you have the audacity to talk about hanif mohammad( a player i bet you know nothing about other than the statistics you picked up on cricinfo) with such a condescending attitude...it pisses us off...so do us a favour..shut the hell up...and if you wanna stay on our platform then behave yourself and keep your uninformed rants to yourself...

P.S My guess is that Vijay Hazare and Vijay Merchant spent the majority of their careers batting on the roads in India...their high averages do not surprise me...These are probably the same guys who used to quake in their pants at the sight of imran and sarfraz...

Do you own this forum?No you dont.I have seen a few of your kind who expect Indians to come here and accept every thing that is said.I will say whatever i want to as long as they are within the rules of this forum.I have enough information on Hanif Mohammed.

Keep your guesses to yourself.Hazare and Merchant played a lot of cricket outside India and avraged better than Hanif.
Your information regarding Merchant and Hazare is very wrong.They playe dlong before Imran and Sarfaraz even stepped on the cricket field.

And for your record no Pakistani bowler has a great record againist India except the great Imran.

I have no problem in acknowledging the greatness of Imran Wasim Waqar etc.They were greats.But certainly Hanif Mohammed isnt in the same class.

[s2k]

Hanif Muhammad's triple century was the second highest test score on record at the time, and like someone said earlier, it greatly helped spread cricket in the subcontinent. Also, Hanif had the highest first class score, 499, until Brian Lara broke that record in the 1990s.

So to sum it up, Hanif Muhammad definitely was in the league of Brian Lara, and he made the ICC Hall of Fame for a reason.

Domestic cricket means zilch when comparing people who have played a certain amount of test cricket.

Cricket was popular in India even before Hanif and didnt need his help to spread.India was the only other country playing cricket from the subcontinent at that time and its batsmen had heroes like Hazare and Merchant who had better records than Hanif at that time.

As a batsman Hanif Mohammed is miles behind Lara Tendulkar etc.....

[asian123]

Because he doesn't have the temperament in my opinion. He has all the shots in the book but doesn't know how to utilise them. The talent is definitely there but I see him more like a young Yuvraj rather than a young Tendulkar.

but he's more talented than Yuvi...... he just needs a good coach and to bat at number 4

[SG]

They playe dlong before Imran and Sarfaraz even stepped on the cricket field.
They were not even born when Hazare and Merchant were plying their trade.

[s2k]

They were not even born when Hazare and Merchant were plying their trade.

The have no idea about Hazare....

The man avgd 48 in tests in those days when India was a minnow.Avgd 40 plus againist every team he played againist.

where as if i remember correctly Hanif has a poor record againist england.One of the best teams of that era.

[zakoota]

asad shafiq
azhar ali
fawad alam
ahmad shahzad
umar akmal
nasir jamshed
navid yasin

these players are going to be pakistan's future. But they are nowhere near the class of lara or tendulkar.

[GOAT]

The have no idea about Hazare....

The man avgd 48 in tests in those days when India was a minnow.Avgd 40 plus againist every team he played againist.

where as if i remember correctly Hanif has a poor record againist england.One of the best teams of that era.

So 4 runs in terms of average without a landmark century means he's somehow better or worthy of more praise than Hanif?

You tripping.

[cricket_coach]

Yahaan to shelling ho rahee hai :akhtar :wasim .... cool cool

[Theo_14]

Umar Amin was given the same opportunity as Azhar Ali. Azhar although might not have the talent and skill of Umar, he showed better temperament and application.

Other players adapt quickly and others don't... And I guess Umar Amin was one of the promising youngsters who failed to make a instant impact as he took longer then Ahzar Ali to adapt to the longer format of the game.

Who knows?

Umar Amin may have been more successful then Azhar Ali IF Umar Amin had been given a chance in the tour of UAE v SA - where conditions were more familiar.

as with any new player given an opportunity in an international team, you only get a few chances and you have to make the most of it.


And that's why so many promising talents that had been given a chance by PCB in the past have failed to deliver the same potential shown at domestic level, mainly because of not recieving so many chances as a youngster should.

I mean Australlia could be used as a prime example, they've sticked with Smith since Summer despite him not performing consistently and having his ups and downs.

I just feel we COULD have had more world class batsmen, if PCB had developed them the same way they are developing the likes of Shehzad and Azhar Ali.

[cricket_coach]

What is needed is somehow protect them batsmen at early age from the bowlers. Yes, Pakistani bowlers are too good to handle for a batsman... specially at young age. Think what will happen to young batters confidence if each time he tries something fancy bowlers gets him out.
Simple solution is import Indian bowlers for net practice. :))) :))) :)))

[s2k]

So 4 runs in terms of average without a landmark century means he's somehow better or worthy of more praise than Hanif?

You tripping.

Landmark century?you mean a triple hundred.well Viv,SRT,Ponting none hv a triple.and Viv is only 5 avg points ahead.

Gilly is hardly 3 avg points ahead and has no triple either and i can list many more......and Hanif will be miles behind them......only triple century is no ground for greatness.

[Tera Gawaandi]

Viraat Kohli has class, his batting style, agressiveness, on field presence, stance, verbal and batting position are similar to Ricky Ponting. He is my fav. Indian batsmen currently. He seems to be more an Australian-type cricketer, always admired cocky arrogant attitude of Ponting.

[Theo_14]

Viraat Kohli has class, his batting style, agressiveness, on field presence, stance, verbal and batting position are similar to Ricky Ponting. He is my fav. Indian batsmen currently.

Just a shame he didn't show all of that consistently during the World cup - he clearly struggled in the role which Umar Akmal consistently has to play in... Which is to take full use of the batting powerplays.

This thread was epic (Umar Akmal v Virat Kohli) - judging by the World cup performances from both of them, it's clear that Umar Akmal won... Enjoyed the debate - here's the link...

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=116447

[Impala_KaifTamasha]

Yeah he's already played.


















































































:shahzaib

[Assadrulz]

Do you own this forum?No you dont.I have seen a few of your kind who expect Indians to come here and accept every thing that is said.I will say whatever i want to as long as they are within the rules of this forum.I have enough information on Hanif Mohammed.

Keep your guesses to yourself.Hazare and Merchant played a lot of cricket outside India and avraged better than Hanif.
Your information regarding Merchant and Hazare is very wrong.They playe dlong before Imran and Sarfaraz even stepped on the cricket field.

And for your record no Pakistani bowler has a great record againist India except the great Imran.

I have no problem in acknowledging the greatness of Imran Wasim Waqar etc.They were greats.But certainly Hanif Mohammed isnt in the same class.

Your cricket analysis wreaks of immaturity...Vijay Merchant played 10 test matches in total.. Hazare played 30...Hanif played almost 6 times as many test matches as Vijay and almost twice those of Hazare...
if you're going to bring up players for comparison at least try to ensure that the sample size for comparison is the same..based on three test hundreds you want to make merchant better than Hanif?

merchant played only six matches outside of India in which he averaged 48. Hanif played 31 test matches outside of Pakistan in which he averaged 43.. wow that's quite a fair comparison....oh i hear vinod kambli retired with an average of more than 50..you wanna throw him onto the list too??

Let's carry on shall we?
hazare played 17 test matches outside of India with an average of 36...Hanif played 31 tests at an average of 43...

Maybe Stats guru is wrong...or maybe you're just another biased Indian who couldn't resist the chance to take a dig at one of pakistan's heroes..

I understand that the desire to come to a Pakistani platform and exude your insufferable hatred for our country can somehow overpower any rationality that you might have but still ..you might want to not make it so obvious the next time..

P.S the reason wasim and waqar do not have great records against india is because india pussied out of playing test matches against pakistan during the 90-97 era when they were both at their peak...

[Genghis]

And that's why so many promising talents that had been given a chance by PCB in the past have failed to deliver the same potential shown at domestic level, mainly because of not recieving so many chances as a youngster should.

I mean Australlia could be used as a prime example, they've sticked with Smith since Summer despite him not performing consistently and having his ups and downs.

I just feel we COULD have had more world class batsmen, if PCB had developed them the same way they are developing the likes of Shehzad and Azhar Ali.
I will have to disagree again. The reason we have batsmen and bowlers who are top performers in domestic and below average on the international stage is due to our substandard domestic competition. Nepotism and a large number of teams is partly the reason for this. The jump in class from domestic to international is much greater and hence many players struggle. Umar Amin played 11 innings (including 3 ODI) and his highest score was 33. That to me is enough opportunity. Since going back to domestic cricket he has struggled to get many big scores and is still working to get his form and confidence back. I doubt playing international cricket would have been better for him.

[Genghis]

but he's more talented than Yuvi...... he just needs a good coach and to bat at number 4
Thats like someone saying Afridi is more talented than Misbah. Talent only takes you so far. Application and temperament are much more important.

How many games has U Akmal won us? How many times has he kept his cool and carried the team to a win? Yes its still early career, but you can tell a lot about a player from the way the handle the pressure situations and U Akmal still has a long way to go.

[Theo_14]

Umar Amin played 11 innings (including 3 ODI) and his highest score was 33. That to me is enough opportunity.

In terms of opportunity that is enough for me too but I just feel it would have been 'fair' to give him a chance on flat wickets v SA where he could have performed better as the conditions were familiar for him, especially after playing in complete different conditions in England against 2 world class sides with no experience around for him to look up to.

In my humble opinion - I think he was given his debut at the wrong time and wrong place or could have atleast been given a tour on sub continent/flat pitches.

Overall I believe Pakistan could have produced many quality or even world class batsmen IF PCB had developed them just like they are developing the likes of U. Akmal, Azhar Ali and Shehzad.

[Genghis]

Fair enough ... but U Akmal performed in his initial games with some big scores which gave him a solid spot in the side. Azhar Ali has kept himself in the side too due to his own performances not due to giving him a long run. Shehzad in my opinion is lucky that Kamran was dropped because I think the Hafeez-Kamran partnership was doing quite well and they probably would have persisted with it for longer. Amin had taken up the spot of Moyo so it was only right that when Moyo came back into the fold, Amin had to sit out.

Matt Hayden was always a domestic cricket bully but took him a long time to break into the Oz team. He played his first test match in 1994 against SA. Then didn't get a look in again till 96/97 where they tried him for 5 test matches (8 innings) against windies and SA. Again he was dropped until he made his final comeback in 2000. Going back to domestic cricket and refocussing and getting your confidence back does help. Some of the best players world over have been dropped and fought their way back into the side. And not just from Pakistan - Hayden, Steve Waugh, Rahul Dravid.

Moreso that Amin, I think Fawad Alam has been really poorly treated throughout his career. Now that's one player I just don't understand why he is always on the outer???

[Theo_14]

Shehzad in my opinion is lucky that Kamran was dropped because I think the Hafeez-Kamran partnership was doing quite well and they probably would have persisted with it for longer.

The Hafeez-Kamran partnership indeed looked promising, we all witnessed the qualities they both together produced in the World cup against WI recently - Kamran Akmal is a option PCB can consider if Shehzad fails in the future, especially after Kamran stated that he's willing to return as a specialist batsman.

With the Shehzad case - I believe he has been gifted by the PCB to be given a run of games which not many youngsters have received in the past. I just can't see Shehzad suceeding, his style of play doesn't impress me despite showing temperament and maturity during the 2nd ODI - but the time is on his side and I guess maturity will come with age and experience but temperament is vital to have for any youngster, especially if they are to suceed in the longer format of the game and in general in my opinion.

I think Fawad Alam has been really poorly treated throughout his career. Now that's one player I just don't understand why he is always on the outer???

Agreed - he never should have been used in the T20 and the 'role' he had to play in the ODI's clearly didn't suit his style of play... I personally believe he should have been used in the longer format of the game, possibly as a opner - a ideal format where we could have seen the best and most out of him.

I really do hope he makes a comeback in the tests and proves the doubters wrong - infact he's being doing quite well at domestic level so I guess him being dropped could benefit him in some ways although he souldnt have been dropped from all 3 formats, PCB should have allowed the boy to cus on the longer format of the game.