Afridi to meet Butt to discuss feud with Waqar

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Pakistan captain Shahid Afridi will meet Cricket Board chairman Ijaz Butt on his return from the West Indies to outline the problems he is facing while working with national team’s head coach Waqar Younis.

The differences between the two have spilled out into the open and reports say their working relationship on the West Indies tour at one stage got so bad that Afridi even refused to play the last two matches.

According to the “Express” newspaper, Afridi had developed problems with Waqar even during the World Cup and had also been reluctant to go to the West Indies for the one—day series.

Afridi had initially asked the PCB to not consider him for the West Indies tour because of personal reasons but later changed his mind.

The flamboyant all—rounder also didn’t leave with the team from Lahore and joined them a day later after departing from Karachi. The official reason given was that he had forgotten his passport at home and wanted to meet his ailing father before leaving for the West Indies.

The newspaper has reported that it was Afridi’s father who convinced him to go to the West Indies after the World Cup.

“His father told him he must not leave the team like this after such a big event and he needs to continue his good work with the team,” a source said.

Sources say Afridi will meet Butt after he returns home to outline his concerns about working with Waqar.

Butt when contacted said that he had also read about the problems in the West Indies in the media.

“When Afridi returns I will talk to him to find out if this is all true,” he said.

Sources say the major point of contention between Afridi and Waqar is the latter’s growing authority in selection matters.

“Afridi on the West Indies wanted to give the new players ample chances in the series and insisted they were not on tour for a joyride but Waqar kept on resisting and playing the tried and tested players. Waqar’s insistence on resting Asad Shafiq in the fifth match after he had scored runs in the earlier games also didn’t please Afridi at all,” one source said.

“Afridi wanted to try out new pacer, Sadaf Hussain. Even during the World Cup he was not happy that pace bowler Junaid Khan didn’t get to play a single match in the tournament.”

http://www.thehindu.com/sport/cricket/article1998900.ece

cant say much about the source but if true people need to stop making threads like"why does afridi hate hammad azam"

[sam]

Terrible stuff from Waqar, if true.

Don't understand why new players can't get a chance even in a low profile series such as the WI one.

And to think Afridi has to bear the brunt of all questions about why Pakistan don't give youngsters enough games.

[zid60]

ahaha respect :afridi

[PerfectionPersonified]

Waqar vs afridi is going to be a good contest

[AZ]

if the coach and captain hating each others' guts produces series victories, them I am all for it :waqar

[Noman]

Waqar I am not sure how good he is as coach...:D

[PerfectionPersonified]

i dont care as long as Pakistan win----just like pakistan harldy whitewashes team or have any tournament without controversies

[MR__KHAN__JI]

So AFRIDI is the one who wants the MERRY GO ROUND!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=127673

[carbon11]

its simple waqar wants to get rid of afridi

i don't blame waqar, afridi is a waste of space can't bat and bowl and is a brainless captain.

he is a passenger, and i think its time pakistan moves away from these old players and concetrates on newer generation.
this afridi is like a disease and as long as he is in team it will effect the new generation of players.

bolds steps have already been taken by getting rid of razzaq and kakmal snr.

now old disease like farhat, malik should not be allowed back

misbah ul tuk should be forced into retirement or his cricket equipment burnt.

this disease of late 90's and early 2000's players who like fixing, politics , sifarish, dubious intentions and controversies need to be removed.

there are plenty of players who are disease free and have clean hearts that can be potential captains
saeed ajmal, umar gul, azhar ali, hafeez, fawad alam

[sam]

So AFRIDI is the one who wants the MERRY GO ROUND!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=127673

What is retarded about giving youngsters a chance?

They are selected for a reason and the reason is to see how good they are; and whether or not they are able to carry forward their performances in domestic cricket onto the intl. stage.

With the series in the bag, Pakistan should have given the youngsters a long run. New players need to be given a chance and low profile series such as this one was a perfect opportunity to do that.

[SOSami]

If it's true, I can't believe a coach is being allowed to continuously undermine a captain and getting away with it but this a stems from the lack of transparency and inclusiveness of the selection process.

Who picks the squad? Who has authority over the final XI? Read once that the PCB have set a criteria for the captain and coach to follow and a selector may be taken along on tours if issues persist.

In most countries, captain and coach pick the team together but this requires the two to have a similar vision. The problem with Pak is that there seem to be such fundamental differences in the approach of Waqar & Afridi that the ugly term 'unreconcilable' comes to mind.

Ijaz Butt has a decision to make. It's one that he's probably been putting off for months.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

What is retarded about giving youngsters a chance?

They are selected for a reason and the reason is to see how good they are; and whether or not they are able to carry forward their performances in domestic cricket onto the intl. stage.

With the series in the bag, Pakistan should have given the youngsters a long run. New players need to be given a chance and low profile series such as this one was a perfect opportunity to do that.

Read the Merry Go Round thread....

[MR__KHAN__JI]

If it's true, I can't believe a coach is being allowed to continuously undermine a captain and getting away with it but this a stems from the lack of transparency and inclusiveness of the selection process.

Who picks the squad? Who has authority over the final XI? Read once that the PCB have set a criteria for the captain and coach to follow and a selector may be taken along on tours if issues persist.

In most countries, captain and coach pick the team together but this requires the two to have a similar vision. The problem with Pak is that there seem to be such fundamental differences in the approach of Waqar & Afridi that the ugly term
'unreconcilable differences' comes to mind.

Ijaz Butt has a decision to make. It's one that he's probably been putting off for months.

How is the coach undermining the captain?

[carbon11]

What is retarded about giving youngsters a chance?

They are selected for a reason and the reason is to see how good they are; and whether or not they are able to carry forward their performances in domestic cricket onto the intl. stage.

With the series in the bag, Pakistan should have given the youngsters a long run. New players need to be given a chance and low profile series such as this one was a perfect opportunity to do that.

afridi wants to give youngsters a chance and wishes they fail

he is deliberately trying to hide behind yougsters and veil his own shortcomings.

when youngsters fail, this afridi will give interview i want yk back i want yousuf back i want experience i want seniorship bla bla

to blood youngsters u give them time, u identify the talent and the players with good technique or natural flair and u develop them over three yr period. not drop them within 3 months :ahmed:fawad:umarakmal

[The Muppets XI]

its simple waqar wants to get rid of afridi

i don't blame waqar, afridi is a waste of space can't bat and bowl and is a brainless captain.

he is a passenger, and i think its time pakistan moves away from these old players and concetrates on newer generation.
this afridi is like a disease and as long as he is in team it will effect the new generation of players.

bolds steps have already been taken by getting rid of razzaq and kakmal snr.

now old disease like farhat, malik should not be allowed back

misbah ul tuk should be forced into retirement or his cricket equipment burnt.

this disease of late 90's and early 2000's players who like fixing, politics , sifarish, dubious intentions and controversies need to be removed.

there are plenty of players who are disease free and have clean hearts that can be potential captains
saeed ajmal, umar gul, azhar ali, hafeez, fawad alam


I agree with you, bar the retiring of Misbah (he need to stay as long as he is performing, once that slides he should retire).

We need to move forward. Youngsters dont get the chance like other countries to break in at home, the last two ODIs have been the first time we have had this opportunity to play newbies, even tho we did lose points for the loss, when else could we do this?

Anyway, who made Afridi spokesman for the 'seniors'? He seems to be doing a lot of this lately.

[sam]

afridi wants to give youngsters a chance and wishes they fail

he is deliberately trying to hide behind yougsters and veil his own shortcomings.

when youngsters fail, this afridi will give interview i want yk back i want yousuf back i want experience i want seniorship bla bla

to blood youngsters u give them time, u identify the talent and the players with good technique or natural flair and u develop them over three yr period. not drop them within 3 months :ahmed:fawad:umarakmal

Oh bhai! Afridi is the one who wants the youngsters to be given a good run. Waqar doesn't want to include them at all and much prefers the safe approach of going with the experienced XI.

And stop with the assumptions because they're just that.

[Poison]

What a man :afridi

There's only really one way this can be decided, and I guess it will have to be a one hour nets session Waqar v Afridi, the one with the least toes broken/less times nearly killed by scud missiles wins and keeps the job.

[sam]

Read the Merry Go Round thread....

Tell me this:

If you keep playing your best XI in every game no matter what, how ever will you find good new players? :moyo

[The Muppets XI]

afridi wants to give youngsters a chance and wishes they fail

he is deliberately trying to hide behind yougsters and veil his own shortcomings.

when youngsters fail, this afridi will give interview i want yk back i want yousuf back i want experience i want seniorship bla bla

to blood youngsters u give them time, u identify the talent and the players with good technique or natural flair and u develop them over three yr period. not drop them within 3 months :ahmed:fawad:umarakmal

Oui!

[Poison]

Oh bhai! Afridi is the one who wants the youngsters to be given a good run. Waqar doesn't want to include them at all and much prefers the safe approach of going with the experienced XI.

And stop with the assumptions because they're just that.

That was a crazy-ass post by carbon11, don't know why anyone even replied. It's like he knows the inner workings of the Shaadi's mind of which nobody has ever come close to understanding.

[Poison]

The people backing Waqar in this thread ... do you mean to support the reasoning that on a tour of a country whose cricket has been in decline for years, we should carry players in the squad who do nothing all tour?

[The Muppets XI]

May be we need another Pakistan v Pakistan A match - good old face off.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Tell me this:

If you keep playing your best XI in every game no matter what, how ever will you find good new players? :moyo

Because the "NEW" players will show that they "DESERVE" to be given an opportunity based on their performances... ie that they should be in the BEST XI....

You look at their.... A team/U 19/Domestic record....

I would recommend that you read the Merry Go Round thread becasue it discusses this very point in a lot of detail...

[SOSami]

How is the coach undermining the captain?
Captain is the authority. There have been numerous reports about Waqar and Afridi not getting along (including that pre-WC debacle with Afridi's captaincy in which Waqar was supposedly involved) and managing players as Pak captain is hard enough, without the benefit of a supportive coach it's almost impossible.

Both are stubborn, but captaincy takes precedence over coaching in my opinion. Or we could do what England did with Moores and KP and accept neither are being particularly helpful and fire both.

Not dissimilar situation to Chappell with India, where he asked for too much authority.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

May be we need another Pakistan v Pakistan A match - good old face off.

I for one would love to see this....

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=112528

[Wanton]

The Bottom line is, Waqar was a great fast bowler and pathetic Captain, he clearly lacks the management abilities, he should never be appointed as a head coach, his Role should be a bowling coach....nothing more, nothing less.

[sam]

Because the "NEW" players will show that they "DESERVE" to be given an opportunity based on their performances... ie that they should be in the BEST XI....

You look at their.... A team/U 19/Domestic record....

I would recommend that you read the Merry Go Round thread becasue it discusses this very point in a lot of detail...

I read the thread, bhai.

Based on form and performances throughout the WC and the NZ series, this should be the side:

Hafeez
Opener/ Shehzad
Shafiq
Misbah
Umar Akmal
Keeper [assuming :kami stays away]
Razzaq
Afridi
Wahab
Ajmal
Gul

Now tell me how will a Junaid Khan, Hammad Azam, Usman Salahuddin or Sadaf Hussain break into this playing XI?

There's two ways:


Either some of these players fail
Or some are rested and the youngsters are given a chance


Always good to have the second option going. Teams around the world do this. No reason why Pakistan shouldn't.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Captain is the authority. There have been numerous reports about Waqar and Afridi not getting along (including that pre-WC debacle with Afridi's captaincy in which Waqar was supposedly involved) and managing players as Pak captain is hard enough, without the benefit of a supportive coach it's almost impossible.

Both are stubborn, but captaincy takes precedence over coaching in my opinion. Or we could do what England did with Moores and KP and accept neither are being particularly helpful and fire both.

Not dissimilar situation to Chappell with India, where he asked for too much authority.

1) Can anyone get on with someone as brainless as AFRIDI?

2) What is the actual evidence that Waqar wants too much authority....

3) Captaincy doesnt take precedence over coach IMO....

4) Captaincy ONLY takes precedence the moment you step onto the pitch.

5) Waqar is not overbearing like Chappell was.

Agreed that Captain and Coach need to get on.... Whether you fire one the other or both would depend on how each was performing.... in their roles.

[Riff]

So AFRIDI is the one who wants the MERRY GO ROUND!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=127673

Good way to advertise your thread :P

[NJamal]

Captain should have the final say in the playing 11 because he is the person who faces the music.

[Kray_jackson7]

:afridi always thinking of the youngsters, now people go make your threads 'why does afridi hate sadaf' etc etc :)))

[SOSami]

1) Can anyone get on with someone as brainless as AFRIDI?

2) What is the actual evidence that Waqar wants too much authority....

3) Captaincy doesnt take precedence over coach IMO....

4) Captaincy ONLY takes precedence the moment you step onto the pitch.

5) Waqar is not overbearing like Chappell was.

Agreed that Captain and Coach need to get on.... Whether you fire one the other or both would depend on how each was performing.... in their roles.
I'm not a fan of Afridi's captaincy, but if he's there and in the position he should be consulted and supported. As for Waqar's desire for control, well that is a matter of opinion.

In reality, neither are really qualified to be taking leadership positions and that's the real problem.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I read the thread, bhai.

Based on form and performances throughout the WC and the NZ series, this should be the side:

Hafeez
Opener/ Shehzad
Shafiq
Misbah
Umar Akmal
Keeper [assuming :kami stays away]
Razzaq
Afridi
Wahab
Ajmal
Gul

Now tell me how will a Junaid Khan, Hammad Azam, Usman Salahuddin or Sadaf Hussain break into this playing XI?

There's two ways:


Either some of these players fail
Or some are rested and the youngsters are given a chance


Always good to have the second option going. Teams around the world do this. No reason why Pakistan shouldn't.

1) I couldnt argue very much with that first XI you have....

2) IMO you decide which spots are "OPEN"

In my mind the "OPEN" slots are

Opener slot
Shafiqs slot
Kami's slot

You identify the BEST available players for these slots and give them a GOOD LONG RUN....

Right now these appear to be...

Shehzad
Shafiq
Salman

Give them 30 continuous games to see if they can cement their slots...

3) The games against WI should be used for

A) See above - Giving the IDENTIFIED YOUNGSTERS A LONG RUN,,,,
B) Getting UMAR AKMAL to the NEXT LEVEL... YOU CANT DO THAT BY PLAYING SALAHUDDIN AT 3 and AKMAL at 6 or RESTED!!!!!!
C) Getting HAFEEZ to the next LEVEL... HE cant do that siiting on the bench.
D) Getting MISBAH to practice rotating strike - He cant do that on the bench
E) Getting the team to PRACTICE THE FORMULA for CHASING or SETTING A TARGET with the BEST XI. Its know use having a BEST XI that is the 8th best in the WORLD. They need to IMPROVE BY PLAYING!

4) The ones that WANT TO BREAK INTO the FIRST XI - They play for the A team and B team and Domestic teams...

UNTIL

They get a first class average of 57 (hint hint)... Are regulalry scoring centuries against A team bowlers.... etc etc

THEN

When the next SLOT opens up.... or SHAFIQ (AFTER 30-60 games) doesnt show that he belongs....

THEY get that position to try and MAKE THEIR OWN with 30 Games (Before you decide whether they get another 30 games)

I hope that helps.

[pakistanigoneaussie]

So AFRIDI is the one who wants the MERRY GO ROUND!

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=127673

Good way to advertise your thread :P

i require payment for using my tread as a billboard :butt but that also means i owe pp :P

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I'm not a fan of Afridi's captaincy, but if he's there and in the position he should be consulted and supported. As for Waqar's desire for control, well that is a matter of opinion.

In reality, neither are really qualified to be taking leadership positions and that's the real problem.

I agree that if Afridi is captain he should be consulted and supported etc...

Agreed that Waqars desire for control is a matter of opinion.. its difficult for us to tell.

It come down to Judgement.... Who do you trust...

For example....

If Flintoff was Captain and Fletcher was Coach... I would say Fletcher has to be the BOSS

If Vaughn was Captain and Fletched was Coach.... I would say Vaughn has to be the BOSS

I think Waqar has a VERY SHREWD cricket brain.... He (together with others - inc Afridi) has slowly but surely been improving our Cricket team since he took over...

I would trust Waqar to be in charge of the THINK TANK over AFRIDI any day of the week.

PS: I love Afridi!

[MR__KHAN__JI]

i require payment for using my tread as a billboard :butt but that also means i owe pp :P

lol

If the there is a point already made elsewhere... it saves typing time....

Also - I think I am making adequate payment on this thread.... ;-)

[Cracket]

Like Gayle and Otis Gibson

[sam]

1) I couldnt argue very much with that first XI you have....

2) IMO you decide which spots are "OPEN"

In my mind the "OPEN" slots are

Opener slot
Shafiqs slot
Kami's slot

You identify the BEST available players for these slots and give them a GOOD LONG RUN....

Right now these appear to be...

Shehzad
Shafiq
Salman

Give them 30 continuous games to see if they can cement their slots...

3) The games against WI should be used for

A) See above - Giving the IDENTIFIED YOUNGSTERS A LONG RUN,,,,
B) Getting UMAR AKMAL to the NEXT LEVEL... YOU CANT DO THAT BY PLAYING SALAHUDDIN AT 3 and AKMAL at 6 or RESTED!!!!!!
C) Getting HAFEEZ to the next LEVEL... HE cant do that siiting on the bench.
D) Getting MISBAH to practice rotating strike - He cant do that on the bench
E) Getting the team to PRACTICE THE FORMULA for CHASING or SETTING A TARGET with the BEST XI. Its know use having a BEST XI that is the 8th best in the WORLD. They need to IMPROVE BY PLAYING!

4) The ones that WANT TO BREAK INTO the FIRST XI - They play for the A team and B team and Domestic teams...

UNTIL

They get a first class average of 57 (hint hint)... Are regulalry scoring centuries against A team bowlers.... etc etc

THEN

When the next SLOT opens up.... or SHAFIQ (AFTER 30-60 games) doesnt show that he belongs....

THEY get that position to try and MAKE THEIR OWN with 30 Games (Before you decide whether they get another 30 games)

I hope that helps.

That's precisely what Afridi wanted. Give the youngsters a consistent run. Shafiq has done enough to cement his place in the side. Had a string of good scores in the WC and whatever games he played in WI. Instead of being played in the 5th ODI, he was rested/ dropped at Waqar's behest - as per this article.

Shehzad has been given an extended run and that's good to see. However, he doesn't seem to be utilizing this opportunity very well. Still, he needs to be given some decent chance and then retained/ dropped depending on how he uses these chances.

Of Salahuddin and Sadaf, since Gul wasn't playing this series and Junaid has done well, Sadaf could have been given a go.

I agree with the point you make of Umar Akmal. The lad needs to be batting at 3/4 and not way down at 6. However, since Misbah is seen as the stabilizer and usually tends to stall the scoring rate, Umar Akmal is needed to beef up the rate towards the end. Personally, I would really like to see Umar coming in at 4 and taking charge of the innings. He's more than good enough to do that.

Hafeez has been persisted with. Again, a lot of that credit goes to Afridi. Credit for having persisted with him and not for how Hafeez has used chances given to him. The difference is there for all to see - Hafeez of before was a nothing player and the Hafeez of now is an important part of this side.

Of Misbah - what can I say?! The guy is 36, is rumoured to have a great cricketing brain and is the proud possessor of something they call no-nonsense approach. He cannot be TAUGHT how to rotate strike now. He's played nearly 80 innings to date and has rarely exhibited even the intention to properly rotate strike. That's just the way he plays.

Can't be changed. :afridi

[sam]

I think Waqar has a VERY SHREWD cricket brain

Was disastrous as captain...

[asian123]

full support for :afridi

always trying his best to unite the team, and give youngsters a chance :rehman

waqar shouldnt interfere at ALL. thanks to him we lost the last 2 ODI's, and a fricken 10 WICKET LOSS to an equally disorganised, but less talented, West indies side....

I guess it was Waqar's idea to play :tanvir and not play :sadaf and :hammad. This makes absolutely no sense and many PPers complained about this.

Waqar never had good management or coaching abilities (apart from bowling) and should therefore be sacked.

What do u guys think that Butt would do??

[sam]

Can anyone explain how playing Taufeeq instead of Shafiq/ Hammad was a good idea?

I said this in the match commentary thread that day and I say it again: Waqar and Misbah wanted the guys in the test squad get some match practice and had them play once the series was won. What kind of logic is that?!

You win the series, you give youngsters a chance. Not bring in old, tried and tested ODI failures such as Taufeeq [unsettling an opening combination, mind you].

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Was disastrous as captain...


1) Not everyone makes a good captain....

2) A good captain doesnt necassarily make a good coach....

3) Who said he was a disaster as captain....

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=captain s;orderby=win_loss_ratio;result=1;result=2;team=7; template=results;type=team

[miandadrules]

1) Not everyone makes a good captain....

2) A good captain doesnt necassarily make a good coach....

3) Who said he was a disaster as captain....

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=captain s;orderby=win_loss_ratio;result=1;result=2;team=7; template=results;type=team

His initial success wasn't too dissimilar to Afridi's. He is probably on par with Afridi, as far as Pakistan captains go.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

That's precisely what Afridi wanted. Give the youngsters a consistent run. Shafiq has done enough to cement his place in the side. Had a string of good scores in the WC and whatever games he played in WI. Instead of being played in the 5th ODI, he was rested/ dropped at Waqar's behest - as per this article.

Shehzad has been given an extended run and that's good to see. However, he doesn't seem to be utilizing this opportunity very well. Still, he needs to be given some decent chance and then retained/ dropped depending on how he uses these chances.

Of Salahuddin and Sadaf, since Gul wasn't playing this series and Junaid has done well, Sadaf could have been given a go.

I agree with the point you make of Umar Akmal. The lad needs to be batting at 3/4 and not way down at 6. However, since Misbah is seen as the stabilizer and usually tends to stall the scoring rate, Umar Akmal is needed to beef up the rate towards the end. Personally, I would really like to see Umar coming in at 4 and taking charge of the innings. He's more than good enough to do that.

Hafeez has been persisted with. Again, a lot of that credit goes to Afridi. Credit for having persisted with him and not for how Hafeez has used chances given to him. The difference is there for all to see - Hafeez of before was a nothing player and the Hafeez of now is an important part of this side.

Of Misbah - what can I say?! The guy is 36, is rumoured to have a great cricketing brain and is the proud possessor of something they call no-nonsense approach. He cannot be TAUGHT how to rotate strike now. He's played nearly 80 innings to date and has rarely exhibited even the intention to properly rotate strike. That's just the way he plays.

Can't be changed. :afridi

If Waqar wanted Shafiq rested that is a mistake in my book.

For Shehzad it not about "Utulizing opportunity"... Its about learning to play international cricket... its not easy.

IMO he has had a good start. He has shown the capability to score centuries! That is a BIG thing. It took Hafeez about 80 games to show that.

Misbah does have a really good cricket brain... players can ALWAYS IMPROVE!

Disagree re Sadaf. Totally. You choose which of Junaid and Sadaf is better. Then you give that guy the "30" games.

IMO neither Junaid or Sadaf should have been playing... As stated above the first choice bowling lineup should be playing.

Salahuddin should be NOWHERE NEAR this TEAM. NOWHERE NEAR.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Can anyone explain how playing Taufeeq instead of Shafiq/ Hammad was a good idea?

I said this in the match commentary thread that day and I say it again: Waqar and Misbah wanted the guys in the test squad get some match practice and had them play once the series was won. What kind of logic is that?!

You win the series, you give youngsters a chance. Not bring in old, tried and tested ODI failures such as Taufeeq [unsettling an opening combination, mind you].


Is there any PROOF that Waqar (or who) wanted to play these guys?

[MR__KHAN__JI]

The people backing Waqar in this thread ... do you mean to support the reasoning that on a tour of a country whose cricket has been in decline for years, we should carry players in the squad who do nothing all tour?

So they should play just cos they are on the plane?

[Poison]

They should get a go, especially against a team like the West Indies.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

They should get a go, especially against a team like the West Indies.

IMO - No they shouldnt....

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=127673

[carbon11]

Oh bhai! Afridi is the one who wants the youngsters to be given a good run. Waqar doesn't want to include them at all and much prefers the safe approach of going with the experienced XI.

And stop with the assumptions because they're just that.

my assumptions of afridi go a long way back , i feel that he is a very crafty insecure person and is just an enigma who got famous with that fastest century and some meaty blows in 2005 in kanpur that were exciting shastri too much.
his only glory moment for me is 2009 chaddi world cup but that was a team effort younis khan leadership , kami, shoaib malik, umar gul, aamer misbah also playing their part and most important of all the british pakistani partisan crowd which was roaring the team on.

if u look at the indian article it could be hot air for all we know

but if u look at the article it is full of holes
first afridi is unhappy with shafiq being dropped
but shafiq has more experience and is more tried and tested than salahuddin and hammad.
and the article says waqar wants experience so why is salahuddin and hammad in the team over the more experieced shafiq and in
4th odi they were selected over umar akmal?
ahmed shehzad played all five games
so what is afridi moaning about youngsters not getting chances?


shafiqs 4th odi innings was poorly paced . and maybe waqar as a coach thought the way he paced his innings was poor as well.

junaid got all the games, but captain never utilised him, he only got 3 overs in last match, was that waqars fault?

junaid in world cup :)) even against a west indies b-c team junaid has looked raw and far from looking the finished article he has improved with succesive games but has looked raw, lendl simmons at times battered him around.
and afridi wanted him in high pressure world cup tournament where he would probably have capitulated and folded over.

same afridi who prefers the negative bowling abdul rahman over ajmal

waqar had every right to back wahab, wahab performed in england, uae, and new zealand, against india i even said day before match that we should back wahab instead of shoaib akhtar and what happened wahab ripped up the indians.

[Poison]

I disagree with the premise of that thread Mr Khan Ji. :)

[MR__KHAN__JI]

I disagree with the premise of that thread Mr Khan Ji. :)

Fair enough... :)

But whilst we carry on with the Merry Go Round... we aint going to get anywhere.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

my assumptions of afridi go a long way back , i feel that he is a very crafty insecure person and is just an enigma who got famous with that fastest century and some meaty blows in 2005 in kanpur that were exciting shastri too much.
his only glory moment for me is 2009 chaddi world cup but that was a team effort younis khan leadership , kami, shoaib malik, umar gul, aamer misbah also playing their part and most important of all the british pakistani partisan crowd which was roaring the team on.

if u look at the indian article it could be hot air for all we know

but if u look at the article it is full of holes
first afridi is unhappy with shafiq being dropped
but shafiq has more experience and is more tried and tested than salahuddin and hammad.
and the article says waqar wants experience so why is salahuddin and hammad in the team over the more experieced shafiq and in
4th odi they were selected over umar akmal?
ahmed shehzad played all five games
so what is afridi moaning about youngsters not getting chances?


shafiqs 4th odi innings was poorly paced . and maybe waqar as a coach thought the way he paced his innings was poor as well.

junaid got all the games, but captain never utilised him, he only got 3 overs in last match, was that waqars fault?

junaid in world cup :)) even against a west indies b-c team junaid has looked raw and far from looking the finished article he has improved with succesive games but has looked raw, lendl simmons at times battered him around.
and afridi wanted him in high pressure world cup tournament where he would probably have capitulated and folded over.

same afridi who prefers the negative bowling abdul rahman over ajmal

waqar had every right to back wahab, wahab performed in england, uae, and new zealand, against india i even said day before match that we should back wahab instead of shoaib akhtar and what happened wahab ripped up the indians.

Interesting post.

[sam]

Is there any PROOF that Waqar (or who) wanted to play these guys?

Is there any sane reason why Afridi would want Taufeeq in the side and at the cost of disturbing the opening combination of Hafeez/ Shehzad?

That leaves out Waqar and Misbah and it is them both.

[Riff]

my assumptions of afridi go a long way back , i feel that he is a very crafty insecure person and is just an enigma who got famous with that fastest century and some meaty blows in 2005 in kanpur that were exciting shastri too much.
his only glory moment for me is 2009 chaddi world cup but that was a team effort younis khan leadership , kami, shoaib malik, umar gul, aamer misbah also playing their part and most important of all the british pakistani partisan crowd which was roaring the team on.

if u look at the indian article it could be hot air for all we know

but if u look at the article it is full of holes
first afridi is unhappy with shafiq being dropped
but shafiq has more experience and is more tried and tested than salahuddin and hammad.
and the article says waqar wants experience so why is salahuddin and hammad in the team over the more experieced shafiq and in
4th odi they were selected over umar akmal?
ahmed shehzad played all five games
so what is afridi moaning about youngsters not getting chances?


shafiqs 4th odi innings was poorly paced . and maybe waqar as a coach thought the way he paced his innings was poor as well.

junaid got all the games, but captain never utilised him, he only got 3 overs in last match, was that waqars fault?

junaid in world cup :)) even against a west indies b-c team junaid has looked raw and far from looking the finished article he has improved with succesive games but has looked raw, lendl simmons at times battered him around.
and afridi wanted him in high pressure world cup tournament where he would probably have capitulated and folded over.

same afridi who prefers the negative bowling abdul rahman over ajmal

waqar had every right to back wahab, wahab performed in england, uae, and new zealand, against india i even said day before match that we should back wahab instead of shoaib akhtar and what happened wahab ripped up the indians.

:O Fantastic analysis

Afridi is upto something. Maybe he wants Miandad to be the coach, who wouldnt work under Waqar.

[insaaniyat]

Oh bhai! Afridi is the one who wants the youngsters to be given a good run. Waqar doesn't want to include them at all and much prefers the safe approach of going with the experienced XI.

And stop with the assumptions because they're just that.

Yaar did Afridi tell you that in person? How could you be that sure. Afridi is the one always talking about seniors all the time.

[Kray_jackson7]

Yaar did Afridi tell you that in person? How could you be that sure. Afridi is the one always talking about seniors all the time.

Yet you were pretty quick to blame afridi for hammads exclusion during the series... did you meet him in person or did he phone you ?

[zaid65]

Instead of Afridi to discuss and give the explanation of his pathetic individual performance, he will discuss Waqar's issue.

Nice try to divert the attention of people, media and innocent cricket fans from his own pathetic performance.

[insaaniyat]

^ that's how he operates. :))

[Kray_jackson7]

Very pathetic performances i mean Just last month he ONLY managed to become the leading wicket taker in the world cup and 5 matches later....

[miandadrules]

Was disastrous as captain...

His first year was better than Afridi's.

[Markhor]

Both Waqar and Afridi are proving to be liabilities with their incessant squabbling and politicking.

[GOAT]

Not really surprised by this, Waqar has always come across as a defensive coach. I'm all for playing the new players and giving them as much exposure as possible. They're going to be in the squad as permanent members sooner as opposed to later.

If this is all true, it's time for Waqar to go.

[sam]

His first year was better than Afridi's.

And with a much better team than Afridi's.

[sam]

Yaar did Afridi tell you that in person? How could you be that sure. Afridi is the one always talking about seniors all the time.

He did tell that to me in person. And confirmed once again over phone. He would have e-mailed too but then deemed a third confirmation was rather unnecessary.

:afridi

[sam]

Instead of Afridi to discuss and give the explanation of his pathetic individual performance, he will discuss Waqar's issue.

Nice try to divert the attention of people, media and innocent cricket fans from his own pathetic performance.

Zaid bhai,

I thought you were pretty good with reading and comprehending whatever is posted in an interview/ report.

Sources say Afridi will meet Butt after he returns home to outline his concerns about working with Waqar.

Butt when contacted said that he had also read about the problems in the West Indies in the media.

“When Afridi returns I will talk to him to find out if this is all true,” he said.


So in fact, it is :ibutt who wants to talk and find out.

[insaaniyat]

He did tell that to me in person. And confirmed once again over phone. He would have e-mailed too but then deemed a third confirmation was rather unnecessary.

:afridi

tum bhi yaar kis kee baton mein aa gaye:)

[slblack]

Ah in-fighting, nothing more Pakistani than it.

[miandadrules]

And with a much better team than Afridi's.

Maybe so, but it was an ageing team and he had many destabilising influences that were trying to undermine him. Plus he faced stronger opposition and had to lead the team in Tests and ODIs.

His personal performances in that first year were probably better than Afridi's.

Waqar also had to lead them team when it was in disarray, following a power struggle. Waqar was a poor tactical captain but he is was no worse than Afridi.

[wiseguy]

Afridi is an idiot why can't he get along with the coach ffs!!!!!

[iZaman]

Source : Do not ask but it is reliable

Afridi and Waqar had a clash in 5th ODI meeting, Afridi did not want to drop Misbah instead wanted Asad to be dropped where as waqar wanted the other way around.
At one time waqar walked out of the meeting in anger, Inti cooled both of them down but the feud stays

[Theo_14]

There's something fishy going on, we know glimpses of it but the 'whole issue' and 'other issues' between Waqar + Afridi & PCB in general is yet to be revealed.

It's such a shame to see this going on, and the thing is... We don't know the full extent of the current and many other issues, it's painful to see things like this... Not because it's hurting us BUT It's affecting the youngsters futures.

Something needs to be done - the president needs to step up and dig in, Ijazz Butt needs to be replaced by someone like Qadir, the PCB are the reason why Pakistan are over shadowed.

Pakistan's new era will NOT happen when exciting youngsters arrive, the new era will begin when the PCB is completely changed... Especially the corruption, including I. Butt.

[miandadrules]

If it is true, who leaked the story to the press?

[ahsan88]

Yahya Husseini's article in Jang today.

http://www.jang.com.pk/jang/may2011-daily/07-05-2011/sports/sp5.gif

[Amjid Javed]

Seems like one or both will have to go! was wondering how long it would take for these two to fall out!

[ahsan88]

Mohsin Khan has blamed Waqar for ruining Pakistan cricket. According to the Yahya Husseini article posted above, Mohsin has said that not only is Waqar meddling with him, but is also planning to sideline Shahid Afridi.

Yahya is putting the blame squarely on Waqar.

[GOAT]

His personal performances in that first year were probably better than Afridi's.


I'm no Afridi fan, but how well did Waqar Younis do in the WC '03?

[ahsan88]

I'm no Afridi fan, but how well did Waqar Younis do in the WC '03?

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/bowling/most_wickets_career.html?id=865;type=tournament

Matches 6 Overs 30.1 Maidens 2 Runs 177 Wickets 7 Best 2/37 Average 25.28 Economy 5.86 SR 25.8

[PakPrince]

Intikhab Alam iis a scheming old man..
Wont be surprised if he is playing a divide and rule game here

[Dr Khan]

We need a foreign coach, wish we could have a foreign captain too

[Amjid Javed]

Pretty much when it comes to having pakistan coach and captains its always been a case that both parties want as much control as possible! sadly its a cultural problem.

Thats why we need a foriegn coach whose job is to coach and a captains job which is to pick the team and captain it!

[Riff]

Intikhab Alam iis a scheming old man..
Wont be surprised if he is playing a divide and rule game here

Yeah Inti is a known weasel :inti

[Looney]

Whatever , two people disagree over sometihing aur media naach naach kar bataye ga masale laga kar

[miandadrules]

I'm no Afridi fan, but how well did Waqar Younis do in the WC '03?

His personal performance wasn't that bad. Against the top sides he was I think statistically our best bowler, even though he was coming on first change, which was a mistake. The team performed appallingly but it wasn't in his first year.

Most Pakistan captain's have a good start and then the politics start. Afridi is now beginning to enter the second phase. Luckily he doesn't have to deal with names like Wasim, Moin and the usual suspects. Leading in to the tournament was chaos. Players positioning for captaincy, feigning injury the usual. I mean there was a series in Sharjah and Sri Lanka where every single senior player mysteriously got injured.

I don't think Waqar should be head coach but it's wrong to suggest that he is tactically naive in comparison to Afridi. At the moment we don't have an alternative to Afridi, so if anyone must go then it is Waqar. But like most, I'm fed up with the merry-go-round. The system needs to change, with players, coaches and selectors knowing their roles and sticking to them.

[hasanmehmoodkhan]

don't trust the source

[KingKhanWC]

It takes two to tango.

Either they get on or both should go.

[zaid65]

Yahya Husseini's article in Jang today.

Yahya Hussaini and most of the Pakistani media people are Afridi's chamchey, they all seems to be happy to get a phone call from him for pathetic interview, this way they all look good in front of their respective employer.

[CleverSir]

My question is this, if Afridi wanted to play youngsters, why didn't Azam bowl more than 1/2 overs per match. In the 4th match why didn't Usman come in earlier to bat? Actions talk louder than smoke screens in the media.

Thats not to say though that Waqar might not have been wrong as well. I just think whats our there points at Afridi playing spoilsport right now.

[zaid65]

My question is this, if Afridi wanted to play youngsters, why didn't Azam bowl more than 1/2 overs per match. In the 4th match why didn't Usman come in earlier to bat? Actions talk louder than smoke screens in the media.

Thats not to say though that Waqar might not have been wrong as well. I just think whats our there points at Afridi playing spoilsport right now.

Excellent point and I agree with you.

In the first match, Hammad was not given a single over and did not come to bat. Throughout the series, Afridi made sure that he would get to bowl the maximum number of overs ( to get some cheap wickets against 3rd rate team) compare to other bowlers.

[freelance_cricketer]

So what's the future?

Who's going? Waqar or Afridi?

[insaaniyat]

Whatever , two people disagree over sometihing aur media naach naach kar bataye ga masale laga kar

Naach naach kar tou Afridi was talking to media today. Like saying log apne kaa se kaam rakhein. Wow. He preaces that and then comes out and open his big mouth. Afridi's job is to play cricket. Unfortunately he can't do that any more so he is shifting the blame on the coach.

[insaaniyat]

So what's the future?

Who's going? Waqar or Afridi?

Well both should go, however if the choice is only one, then it has to be our useless cuptaan. Right now with his form he is a liability on the team and with his mouth, liability on Pakistan cricket.

[freelance_cricketer]

Well both should go, however if the choice is only one, then it has to be our useless cuptaan. Right now with his form he is a liability on the team and with his mouth, liability on Pakistan cricket.

Do you think Pakistan can do better without Afridi?

[Blistering Barnacle]

Source : Do not ask but it is reliable

Afridi and Waqar had a clash in 5th ODI meeting, Afridi did not want to drop Misbah instead wanted Asad to be dropped where as waqar wanted the other way around.
At one time waqar walked out of the meeting in anger, Inti cooled both of them down but the feud stays

If this is true, I would back Waqar in this matter.

[waqar_ahmad]

My question is this, if Afridi wanted to play youngsters, why didn't Azam bowl more than 1/2 overs per match. In the 4th match why didn't Usman come in earlier to bat? Actions talk louder than smoke screens in the media.

Thats not to say though that Waqar might not have been wrong as well. I just think whats our there points at Afridi playing spoilsport right now.

Excellent post!!

Afridi has always been scared of playing youngsters. I still remember his statement that playing Hammad Azam will be a risk. When a captain says that about a young player, how can you expect the youngsters to have any faith in himself.

Afridi is a defensive minded individual. If he could, he would play a team of eleven seniors.

[1137moiz]

Excellent post!!

Afridi has always been scared of playing youngsters. I still remember his statement that playing Hammad Azam will be a risk. When a captain says that about a young player, how can you expect the youngsters to have any faith in himself.

Afridi is a defensive minded individual. If he could, he would play a team of eleven seniors.

To be honest Hammad's bowling hasn't really warranted much. Afridi and other captains used to bowl Yasir Arafat, Abdul Razzaq, and Mohammad Hafeez much less than they should've, and every one of those three had more control and stability with the ball than young Hammad does (I do rate him, just saying that people are overreacting to his limited overs). It's part and parcel of being an allrounder. I wouldn't look too much into it

[waqar_ahmad]

To be honest Hammad's bowling hasn't really warranted much. Afridi and other captains used to bowl Yasir Arafat, Abdul Razzaq, and Mohammad Hafeez much less than they should've, and every one of those three had more control and stability with the ball than young Hammad does (I do rate him, just saying that people are overreacting to his limited overs). It's part and parcel of being an allrounder. I wouldn't look too much into it

My point was about his statement labeling hammad as a risk. Playing every youngster is a risk. Captains dont go to press conferences and say it though.

[sam]

Do you think Pakistan can do better without Afridi?

Insaaniyat has always thought Pak cricket is better off without Afridi.

He was also sure the semi-final was fixed. He was terribly sure Afridi sold that match for a "few bucks".

:)

[hersheybud]

The more i read about afridi, listen to his interviews, the more i have feeling that something is fishy about this guy.