Pakistans opening dilemma - Who will raise their hand???

[Monsee]

With all this experimenting, changing, and chopping going on, in search of a decent opening pair ever since Saeed Anwar departed...we have seen tons of players come and go in the team!

Now, with Butt having made one of the two opening positions his own, why not a player like Bazid, Zulqarnain Haider (Anyone who has seen him play will agree that this guy plays very sensibly and seems to have the technique for an opener), Aamir Bashir (Although quite old at 32-33, he is right up there with Hasan and Bazid; he seems to have a lot of time when playing the top bowlers in the domestic scene), or any other middle order batsman, 'raises his hand and shows the PCB, Bob, and Inzi that he is willing to give it a try!'

I mean if you have played as a 1 down, 2 down or heck even 3 down player...there must have been many instances 'where you had to come in, in the 4-5 over (sometimes even earlier) after a few wickets had fallen at the top'. I am not saying it will be easy or that it will be a cake walk.

But, if I was in with a chance to be part of the team, rather than wasting away another 2-3 years (Until Inzi retires...hopefully he sticks around longer)...I would rather try my hand at an openers slot or at least try to bat at 1 down position for a season, perform well, play as straight as possible, play as late as possible, try to stay at the crease for a longer period in each inning etc. etc...and lets see what happens

I am sure sooner than latter, someone in the team management is to turn around and say "Hey lets try this guy...he seems to have what it takes to be an opener and above all, he sacrificed his middle order position to try and see if he can fill the void for the 2nd opener"

What do you think?

[Ayubi]

What do you think?

I think you should re-write the title of this thread in English

[MIG]

Monsee - I changed the title of the thread - let me know if you want a different one !

[Monsee]

I think you should re-write the title of this thread in English



Come here, I 'll show you something in English :62: :105: :117: :133:

Do you want it in dutch too :P :47:



That's fine Miggy BUT my lawyer wants to sue first...wanna settle out of court :D

[Gasherbrum]

whatever happened to Faisal Athar (HYDERABAD!!!) who almost made it in again? is this rafatullah dude any better than him?

my oh my, what a handsome young man that is Ayubi. a smile to lighten up even the darkest of souls.

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

Asim Kamal.

enough said..

[irfan]

the guy is lost at sea at no 3 never mind opening.

[sehsan]

monsee: problem is no one want to take that risk, for example BAZID, i think he knows if he doesn't perform as an opner then he MIGHT lose opportunity to bat in the middle order once inzi retires BECAUSE us peh TAG lag jaye ga kay"HE IS A FALIURE"

[Monsee]

monsee: problem is no one want to take that risk, for example BAZID, i think he knows if he doesn't perform as an opner then he MIGHT lose opportunity to bat in the middle order once inzi retires BECAUSE us peh TAG lag jaye ga kay"HE IS A FALIURE"



No, I strongly disagree...rather then sitting there, waiting for Inzi to retire or someone else to make way for him, if I was him, I would go and try something new, 'If that might give me a shot at being a regular member of the team'

Bazid should know this better than anyone...I think he knows someone by the name of Majid Khan, who did exactly that and then some. I think they might be related too :13:

Majid started as a bowling all rounder, changed to a middle order bat, and then moved to the top of the order

[Nauman]

Asim Kamal.

enough said..

Nothing said, look at his record at number 3 I can safely say that his record at 1/2 would be even worse.

[Ayubi]

Come here, I 'll show you something in English :62: :105: :117: :133:



Monsee Babu your imagination is a little worrying! :31:

[Ayubi]

my oh my, what a handsome young man that is Ayubi. a smile to lighten up even the darkest of souls.

Well what can one say? One lives to but...smile!

[Gasherbrum]

it is also very important, monsee, for openers to be comfortable with the decision to open, and actually have a strong desire to face the new ball. not a job where you'd want to be second guessing all the time.

we shouldn't forget that yasir hameed wasn't an opener on the domestic scene.

[MIG]

Malik has a strong desire to open...but is he good ? I think the desire should be matched with actual skills and the best judge of that is the selection committee ( and not fans !)

[Ayubi]

Malik may have the desire, unfortunately his ability leaves a lot to be desired.

Out of the bunch we've seen I reckon Yasir is probably the best...

[Monsee]

it is also very important, monsee, for openers to be comfortable with the decision to open, and actually have a strong desire to face the new ball. not a job where you'd want to be second guessing all the time.

we shouldn't forget that yasir hameed wasn't an opener on the domestic scene.



As hard as the opening position is, it is not like the end of this world

I used to bat lower down the order for my team (Central Florida Cricket league) but when needed by the team, I ended up opening the innings...I garee, it requires a lot of patience and discipline But one can do it especially if that would end up providing one with a open chance to be part of the Pak team for good!

Having said that, at the start of his innings, each batsman has to display the same abilities before he gets set...so lets see if we have any more Majod Khan like players

[Gasherbrum]

the skills ofcourse, yes. but if we're going to be asking mid-order batsmen to open, whose natural instinct may be to send anything resembling a half-volley outside off through the covers, we need to be sure that person is up for it. opening an innings against fast bowling does require a great deal of reliance on natural instinct, which is why i'd prefer a player who has done it before.

[Monsee]

Malik may have the desire, unfortunately his ability leaves a lot to be desired.

Out of the bunch we've seen I reckon Yasir is probably the best...



Now I would definitely question your cricketing intellect if 'Yasir looks the best out of the bunch for you'...

If Farhat could cut down his tendency to throw away his wicket, after getting set, he would be my best bet for me

Although Taufeeq looked the best of the bunch after that series against SA in 2003...God knows what his problem is

[Mercenary]

But, if I was in with a chance to be part of the team, rather than wasting away another 2-3 years (Until Inzi retires...hopefully he sticks around longer)...I would rather try my hand at an openers slot

Isn't that what Shoaib Malik has done, he has a lot of heart that lad. Who would have thought he would succeed at number 3 in ODI's?

[Monsee]

the skills ofcourse, yes. but if we're going to be asking mid-order batsmen to open, whose natural instinct may be to send anything resembling a half-volley outside off through the covers, we need to be sure that person is up for it. opening an innings against fast bowling does require a great deal of reliance on natural instinct, which is why i'd prefer a player who has done it before.



Well, a middle order batsman can start using his natural skills, once he has become comfortable with his new position...I see no harm in someone at least giving it a shot!

Cause if one cannot be flexible as an Int'l player than one should not be playing at that level to begin with...there is a long list of players who totally transformed their roles in their respective teams, after they became part of their National squads

[Monsee]

Isn't that what Shoaib Malik has done, he has a lot of heart that lad. Who would have thought he would succeed at number 3 in ODI's?



I know but he needs to stop doing two things:

1- Stop playing outside off (way outside in most cases) and also too far away from his body

2- Stop playing the drives while walking...his feet needs to be firmly grounded before he tries those shots

[Ayubi]

Farhat is probably more gifted & more stylish an opener. But from that perspective Imran Nazir is probably more so & Shahid Afridi the most gifted of them all. See my point?

Yasir has the ability to open & in recent performances his temperament is definitely better than all those listed above...

[Monsee]

Farhat is probably more gifted & more stylish an opener. But from that perspective Imran Nazir is probably more so & Shahid Afridi the most gifted of them all. See my point?

Yasir has the ability to open & in recent performances his temperament is definitely better than all those listed above...



Same temperament that he displays when bogged down for an over or two...I can recall a half a dozen times where he was bogged down for a few deliveries, only to attempt a wild slash or slog and gift his wicket away :9:

I don't care how stylish or unstylish an opener is...end results are the main thing. BTW, Yasir's cover drives look way stylish than most Int'l batsmen

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

Nothing said, look at his record at number 3 I can safely say that his record at 1/2 would be even worse.

but.. but... but... surely that is Woolmer's fault. if Woolmer weren't the coach, Asim Kamal would've been a smashing success at opening. guaranteed!!

damn that Woolmer. why must he destroy Pak cricket?

for our next coach, I think it would be prudent on part of the PCB to hire someone right from the many qualified, experienced and world class coaches that post on PP...

[pacman]

but.. but... but... surely that is Woolmer's fault. if Woolmer weren't the coach, Asim Kamal would've been a smashing success at opening. guaranteed!!

damn that Woolmer. why must he destroy Pak cricket?

for our next coach, I think it would be prudent on part of the PCB to hire someone right from the many qualified, experienced and world class coaches that post on PP...

:O :O :)))

[Gasherbrum]

woolmer is a tin-pot coach, agreed. malik is a tin-pot batsman so he can't open. younis khan's just a pot, he has lost his tin.

we need someone made of steel. enough of these second grade tin-pots.

[MIG]

Yaar Bhaiyo - whats the difference between someone batting at 1 down or opening ? In which case, why cant any of YK, MoYo or Malik open ? what is the magical opening position have that a no 3 cant do that job?

[Daoud]

Yaar Bhaiyo - whats the difference between someone batting at 1 down or opening ? In which case, why cant any of YK, MoYo or Malik open ? what is the magical opening position have that a no 3 cant do that job?
In ODIs, it shouldnt matter. If you have a half decent technique and have the ability to find the gaps, you should do well - ie Tendulkar, Gilchrist and Mark Waugh. None of them were specialist openers but all 3 have been very successful at opening. Then you look at Ganguly who had an ordinary technique yet he was virtually unstopable for a period.

Having said that, its possibly too late for someone like MoYo to open, although YK might be alright. Having said that, I'd prefer Kamran to open rather than YK

[pacman]

Yaar Bhaiyo - whats the difference between someone batting at 1 down or opening ? In which case, why cant any of YK, MoYo or Malik open ? what is the magical opening position have that a no 3 cant do that job?

Oh, I think it makes a big difference. I'm not saying they can't handle the new ball, or can't be successfull. But players like Moyo and Inzi are middle order bats, and should remain so. That goes for YK too. He should not be opening. Just imagine this line up:

Inzi
Moyo
YK
Afridi
Razzaq
Butt
Shoaib Malik
Akmal
Rana
Sami
S.Akhtar

Sure, they could pull it off, but the middle order looks brittle.

Now if the same set of players were to play like:

Butt
Afridi
Shoaib Malik
Inzi
Moyo
YK
Razzaq
Akmal
Rana
Sami
S.Akhtar

... The side looks so much stronger. We need our best batsman to play at 2 down. Javed held that position too, when he was our best batsman.

[Gasherbrum]

moyo relies on the cover / third-man region to get him out of pressure situations. as an opener i guess you need to be able to absorb the punches thrown by the opposition with a bit of restraint at the top.

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

woolmer is a tin-pot coach, agreed. malik is a tin-pot batsman so he can't open. younis khan's just a pot, he has lost his tin.

we need someone made of steel. enough of these second grade tin-pots.

hence, my suggestion that we go for Asim Kamal.

[darkmoon459]

I think Imran Nazir ,will be good as a ODI opener ,I watched him batting against NZ ,and boy was he good ,what style ,poise ,and ellegence ,and most of all the prefectly timed shots ,
watch this and tell me,if I am wrong.

http://rapidshare.de/files/1956779/Afridi_108_against_NZ_1.mpeg.html

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

I think Imran Nazir ,will be good as a ODI opener ,I watched him batting against NZ ,and boy was he good ,what style ,poise ,and ellegence ,and most of all the prefectly timed shots ,
watch this and tell me,if I am wrong.

http://rapidshare.de/files/1956779/Afridi_108_against_NZ_1.mpeg.html

oh he's just awesome. amazing talent. only thing he's missing is a brain.

but with all the advances in modern medical sciences, anything's possible. who know maybe he could just get a transplant of some sort...

[nedian21]

No, I strongly disagree...rather then sitting there, waiting for Inzi to retire or someone else to make way for him, if I was him, I would go and try something new, 'If that might give me a shot at being a regular member of the team'

Bazid should know this better than anyone...I think he knows someone by the name of Majid Khan, who did exactly that and then some. I think they might be related too :13:

Majid started as a bowling all rounder, changed to a middle order bat, and then moved to the top of the order


agreed. and this is where Malik showed that he has the balls to do whatever team managemenet wants him to. He was asked to play at no.3 position in ODI and inorder to cement his place and for the team he did it. not thinking that if he will fail then what. similarly he did it again in test matches. this is a major difference b/w Malik and rest of the others (including Bazid, Hasan or even Asim)
as monsee said that one doesnt have to wait for the right opportunity. in a competitive environment u have take chances and risks .

[umarbeast]

I have to agree with Monsee here and I think Bazid Khan should put his hand up for the opening position. He has great technique and watches the ball carefully. He would make a perfect openor combination with left handed Butt. The question I have is if Bazid Khan can still be drafted into the squad and play first odi match???? :13:

[nedian21]

woolmer is a tin-pot coach, agreed. malik is a tin-pot batsman so he can't open. younis khan's just a pot, he has lost his tin.

we need someone made of steel. enough of these second grade tin-pots.

:)))

[Aurangzeb]

nazir also has a bad attitude...just ask noddy...

[darkmoon459]

what attitude has to do with batting like the way Nazir does ,if that the case Afridi shouldn't be playing cricket either ,attitude is needed to be good ,give the kid a chance and let him preform for the country .

[Monsee]

what attitude has to do with batting like the way Nazir does ,if that the case Afridi shouldn't be playing cricket either ,attitude is needed to be good ,give the kid a chance and let him preform for the country .



Let me spell it out...the kid needs a 'B R A I N'


Now that wasn't that hard, was it

Imran Nazir has nobody but himself to blame; I don't care what 'Deema' will say when he sees this :D :P

[z10]

woolmer is a tin-pot coach, agreed. malik is a tin-pot batsman so he can't open. younis khan's just a pot, he has lost his tin.

we need someone made of steel. enough of these second grade tin-pots.


:))) :))) :))) :)))

[prepare]

just a point nazir is a briliiant fielder while some of the other youngsters are also good

[Somali Pirate]

always said younis khan should open.But it seems no body has the guts to do so in case they fail

[pakistani pride]

Why dont they try Razzaq as a opener in tests ? ? ?

I mean BW wants him in the team Razzaq is superb versus pace bowling and isnt botherd much by the new ball.

I say Razzaq !

[Monsee]

I heard Bob was quite a good defensive player...maybe he can go do the opening job till MoYo is willing to come out to bat :P

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

Why dont they try Razzaq as a opener in tests ? ? ?

I mean BW wants him in the team Razzaq is superb versus pace bowling and isnt botherd much by the new ball.

I say Razzaq !

on a serious note, I've always wondered why Razzaq hasn't tried opening. he does have an excellent technique against fasties. he's done well against the best of them in ODIs. I would seriously think of promoting Razzaq to open in ODIs.

Klusener opened for SA in ODIs under Woolmer. I remember watching one innings of his against AUS. he scored a typically brutal 90-something, took fourish wickets and at least one crazy outfield catches. what a cricketer was he at his peak.

[princeali]

Imran Nazir had lots of talent and great shot selection as well.....maybe he could be given another chance now that Woolmer is coach, he might have improved over the past couple of years and would make a nice match with Butt (left-right opening combo).

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

Shahid Yousuf seems to be guy who'll make it to the national level out of the Sialkot team...

Imran Nazir has moved very very low in the pecking order and quite rightly so IMO.

[princeali]

Actually ever since Shahid Afridi was introduced as an opener, we've had problems....the Sohail-Anwar combination was the BEST, totally amazing, you could always depend on them most of the time to give you a solid start.

They complimented eachother very nicely, Sohail with his aggressive "Im going to hit you so hard you'll be blown out of the attack" shots and Anwar with his classy "Tendulkar who ?....this is how you play" beautiful strokes.....what a pair !!

[Monsee]

Imran Nazir had lots of talent and great shot selection as well.....maybe he could be given another chance now that Woolmer is coach, he might have improved over the past couple of years and would make a nice match with Butt (left-right opening combo).


Actually Woolmer did try him out in the Asia cup (I believe) where he failed as usual

Bob has said "He needs to go back and get his confidence back..."

I think he just needs a brain tansplant; any chimp'd brain, even Bush's, will do better than the brain in that kid's head :D :P

[irfan]

Razzaq has opened in tests & it wasn't great.

[princeali]

Actually Woolmer did try him out in the Asia cup (I believe) where he failed as usual

Bob has said "He needs to go back and get his confidence back..."

I think he just needs a brain tansplant; any chimp'd brain, even Bush's, will do better than the brain in that kid's head :D :P

Yes I remember now, he did use Nazir when he was new as coach.....well he's still young and one of the best fielders in Pakistan....how about Taufeeq Umar ?.

[Officer Barbrady]

Razzaq is not equipped for opening, neither is Raza or Kamal. They've done well to not try it.

[Monsee]

I think Bazid should come out and say "I want to emulate my Abba Jee...give the opener's slot for at least 10 games in a row. I will make it my own"

I think Bob and Co. will definitely be willing to give him a try at least

[mooz]

my memory on this is a little hazy, but did we not ruin Mohd Waseem's career by making him an opener? I think we should learn a lesson from this, and let specialist openers do their job.

[Monsee]

my memory on this is a little hazy, but did we not ruin Mohd Waseem's career by making him an opener? I think we should learn a lesson from this, and let specialist openers do their job.


If I am not mistaken, Wasim was originally an opener and had a very good technique too

Selectors were not patient with him and also he was not very consistent either

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

If I am not mistaken, Wasim was originally an opener and had a very good technique too

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure he wasn't an opener originally. he used to be a number 4 if I remember correctly. he was the captain of the Pak A team in which Yousuf played under him. I remember both of them hit up big runs after which they were called into the senior squad. both of them did really well in one of their tours to Zimbabwe (or was it NZ?) where Yousuf got a double hundred and Wasim got a big hundred all as part of a massive partnership.

quite remarkable how the young man being groomed for captaincy is nowhere to be seen any more while the one who played under the former has gone on to form part of the backbone of our batting..

such are the vagaries of life...

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

Wasim kept too on occasion I think. anyone remember that or is it just my old age catching up with me?

[MIG]

Razzaq is not equipped for opening, neither is Raza or Kamal. They've done well to not try it.

But what if they express a burning desire to do it and actually succeed ? Will you still post at PP ?

[Jonty]

Imran Nazir did look awesome when I saw him once in New Zealand - loads of talent, but i think he is a another Sami - well he has had his break.. someone should groom this lad. Imagine a Nazir with a brain opening with Butt in the world cup!

[Amjid Javed]

nazir did score a wonderful ton against west indies early on his career. He also got a good ton v new zealand. His downfall was to much odi cricket, poor shot selection and premeditation in shots also.

hes played less than 10 tests. "IF" he can mature mentally he could still have a career @ highest level.

[fair_play]

nazir did score a wonderful ton against west indies early on his career. He also got a good ton v new zealand. His downfall was to much odi cricket, poor shot selection and premeditation in shots also.

hes played less than 10 tests. "IF" he can mature mentally he could still have a career @ highest level.

In 8-9 years since his debut Pakistan gave him less than 10 tests?

Something is wrong...I know Majid says that power group within the PCB and team is to blame for him not progressing.

In fact, he told me that in 1999 - saying can you beleive they brought him in, he batted beautifully for 64, and then they dropped him.....


Of course, because Nazir was not a senior player......and senior players must have a place in the team unless the going gets tough and they need to bat lower down the order...

[Amjid Javed]

In 8-9 years since his debut Pakistan gave him less than 10 tests?

Something is wrong...I know Majid says that power group within the PCB and team is to blame for him not progressing.

In fact, he told me that in 1999 - saying can you beleive they brought him in, he batted beautifully for 64, and then they dropped him.....


Of course, because Nazir was not a senior player......and senior players must have a place in the team unless the going gets tough and they need to bat lower down the order...

I think 8 test or so is not really a stage were you cant write a career off. sadly nazir in odis was woeful most of the time and i think our selectors used that as a tool to drop him from tests. Someone like JM or zaheer abbas or someone else needs to coach nazir and see if they can save his career from a premature death.

[Sheikh]

I'd put Imran Nazir on about a par with Ricardo Powell.

[zaf1986]

Wasim kept too on occasion I think. anyone remember that or is it just my old age catching up with me?
He did. IIRC, he kept wicket in one of the side games in England (in 2001).

[Easa]

Actually Woolmer did try him out in the Asia cup (I believe) where he failed as usual
Bob has said "He needs to go back and get his confidence back..."

I think he just needs a brain tansplant; any chimp'd brain, even Bush's, will do better than the brain in that kid's head :D :P

:20: Monsee, they tried him out for only one match against India. He was out wrongly to a Pathan inswinger for one and since then he hasn't gotten one chance. Early on in his career I remember against South Africa he was a very good batsmen who mixed aggression with patient defense. I hope he gets another chance in the near future.
:12:

[zaf1986]

[/B]

:20: Monsee, they tried him out for only one match against India. He was out wrongly to a Pathan inswinger for one and since then he hasn't gotten one chance. Early on in his career I remember against South Africa he was a very good batsmen who mixed aggression with patient defense. I hope he gets another chance in the near future.
:12:
Merey bhai, IIRC, Imran Farhat played only one match and then was injured. Imran Nazir opened for the rest of the tournament and failed to go past 20.