Tendulkar too scared to bat at three...

[enigmatic_stani]

Dont know if this has already been mentioned but they showed an interesting segment on Sky yesterday showing that in his 20+ year career Sachin has never batted at number 3 in tests, and again this was highlighted by VVS coming in at three yesterday when Sachin shoukd have come out and taken responsibility.
They always say your best bat should come in at three and this is definitely the case as Dravid has been Indias number three for years now. Sachin you maybe the king of ODIs but in the test match arena your not the best bat in your team let alone the world....

[Blitz]

Sachin you maybe the king of ODIs but in the test match arena your not the best bat in your team let alone the world....

This.


Its a lot easier to score runs, after the likes of Dravid/Sehwag have killed of the new ball. Played out the new ball bowlers like Wasim/Waqar/Mcgrath/Donald/Steyn/Ambrose.


Dravid may average 3 less, but he's the reason Tendulker does so well.

[Itachi]

Forget no.3.... Sachin should have been the opener in this case....
He knows (or should know) how to play the new ball better than anyone.... Yup. He is a coward....

[Tera Gawaandi]

He is routine guy, nothing changed in his 22yr career, why team management will risk their best batsmen at unfamiliar batting position instead of guy who has played at allmost all positions (Laxman).

[IgnitedMind]

Yes after 180 test matches, 435 ODI matches, 30,000 international runs and 99 centuries..he is scared to play at no. 3? Scared of what?? Does playing at 4 guarantee anything??

[freelance_cricketer]

If that's true, Inzamam was an even bigger coward. Now i don't think Inzi was a coward, but if Sachin is, then Inzy was more !

[emclub]

He's selfish

[emclub]

If that's true, Inzamam was an even bigger coward. Now i don't think Inzi was a coward, but if Sachin is, then Inzy was more !

yes he was scared too

[Awesome_Username]

If that's true, Inzamam was an even bigger coward. Now i don't think Inzi was a coward, but if Sachin is, then Inzy was more !

Well, Inzy HAS been often criticized heavily for refusing to push himself up the order. Pakistani captains have always had this curious mindset of believing that they can perform the rescue act better than the stabilizing act.

[armaan11]

Ok then comparatively Abhinav Mukund , SHiv Sunder Das , Imran Farhat , Ali Naqvi , Sehwag , Murli Vijay , Taufeeq Umar are the real brave lads of International Cricketers whereas all the other batsmen coming to bat after they have successfully played the new ball are cowards of the first order for example Dravid , Inzamam , Yousuf , Sachin , Laxman .

[freelance_cricketer]

yes he was scared too

Well, Inzy HAS been often criticized heavily for refusing to push himself up the order. Pakistani captains have always had this curious mindset of believing that they can perform the rescue act better than the stabilizing act.

Aware of it, that's why i mentioned that. Tendulkar least has been leading from the top in the other form of the game. So he is half the coward if at all he is.

On a serious note, that's a rubbish arguement really.

[enigmatic_stani]

As a Pak fan I agree that both Moyo and Inzi as the senior batsmen of the team should have batted at three. Just adds to the case why they wont be recognised amongst the likes of Ponting and Dravid. Dont getme wrong Sachin is amongst the greats and I would never deny that, but surely he should have tested himself at that number 3 position.

[velu]

IMO :sachin is not scared of batting at N0. 3, but he is scared of failures and scared of changes

[AZ]

Cannot teach an old dog new tricks.

Disclaimer for Teenday - this is an English proverb, am not calling SRT a dog.

[Feroz Rawther]

To me it is not him being scared technic wise but him being scared of the huge expectations from some mad Indian fans.I should say that because if we go thru his past 21 year career he has played a lot of great inns once after the 1st 2 wkts have fallen cheaply.Now that this being such a hyped up series and also India beginning the series to retain their NO: 1 spot , which they didn't practically, even if he has the confidence in mind to play at 1 down , this pressure of expectations might be the case that might have blocked him from coming at 1 down..this is my gut feeling.

[Namak_Halaal]

Ok then comparatively Abhinav Mukund , SHiv Sunder Das , Imran Farhat , Ali Naqvi , Sehwag , Murli Vijay , Taufeeq Umar are the real brave lads of International Cricketers whereas all the other batsmen coming to bat after they have successfully played the new ball are cowards of the first order for example Dravid , Inzamam , Yousuf , Sachin , Laxman .

Were you last in the queue when logic and common sense were dished out?

Let me explain the OP in a simple sentence - COMETH THE HOUR COMETH THE MAN. With all the injuries, SRT - given his 22 year career - should've moved up the batting order and played the SITUATION and NOT the RECORD!

Dravid has not only opened the batting from his usual spot, but has then followed on with the bat after carrying his bat!

[kingusama92]

It's a set position.

He's always batted at that position. Some players are more serious about not changing batting positions, superstitions and all.

Laxman moves around the order more often for them.

I would have put Tendulkar at #3, myself. The guy used to open in the ODI format, so he knows how to play against the new ball. However, it's understandable that he doesn't want change in batting position. It's not like Laxman is a muck with the bat!

[rajan70]

Ironically all the so called pressure players are back in the pavilion, its SRT battling it again in the 2nd Innings. If he manages to help India draw this match then it will be a morale booster victory for the team who can carry on some confidence going into the Odis.

[Awesome_Username]

It's a set position.

He's always batted at that position. Some players are more serious about not changing batting positions, superstitions and all.

Laxman moves around the order more often for them.

I would have put Tendulkar at #3, myself. The guy used to open in the ODI format, so he knows how to play against the new ball. However, it's understandable that he doesn't want change in batting position. It's not like Laxman is a muck with the bat!

No, but Laxman has been immensely successful in recent times as a lower middle order player, batting with the tail.

It may not necessarily have been just Sachin's decision, and of course it is not cowardice. But it is way more natural for him to move up a spot, than for Laxman to be expected to move up two spots. There are times when you need to put your preferences aside.

[freelance_cricketer]

I don't know about the requirement thing but ever since i have styarted watching Cricket, Tendulkar has only batted at #4 in tests

[Ironcat]

Dont know if this has already been mentioned but they showed an interesting segment on Sky yesterday showing that in his 20+ year career Sachin has never batted at number 3 in tests, and again this was highlighted by VVS coming in at three yesterday when Sachin shoukd have come out and taken responsibility.
They always say your best bat should come in at three and this is definitely the case as Dravid has been Indias number three for years now. Sachin you maybe the king of ODIs but in the test match arena your not the best bat in your team let alone the world....
Disagreed. Your best bat should bat at a position where he is best suited. #4 is the position that glues the entire batting lineup together - the one that "talks to the openers/1-down" as well as the middle order and mostly also into the tail. Both Miandad and Richards batted at #4 and were the true fighters of this game.

Tendulkar is considered one of the best bats in the world - so instead of inferring the truth in that title from the batting position, it should be the other way around - i.e. infer which position signifies that of your best bat.

[Blitz]

If that's true, Inzamam was an even bigger coward. Now i don't think Inzi was a coward, but if Sachin is, then Inzy was more !

Before I reply to this, let me post my customary quote:


Indian fans always deflecting.


Thread Creater/Poster = Criticise India

Indian poster = But Pakistan this, and Pakistan that.


Ridiculous.



So anyway, on topic.

Firstly, Inzi was a finisher. A much better version of Laxman if you will. His match winning 100s, under intense pressure are something of legend.


Now does that sound like something Sachin is known for?



So Inzi's best position, was 6th.


However, I agree to an extent. Inzi at 3 could have broken a lot of records. Maybe he lacked confidence, or maybe, he was a 'coward'.


See, I usually admit to our players fault.



You lot, just deflect. Very cowardly :)

[freelance_cricketer]

Before I reply to this, let me post my customary quote:

So anyway, on topic.

Firstly, Inzi was a finisher. A much better version of Laxman if you will. His match winning 100s, under intense pressure are something of legend.


Now does that sound like something Sachin is known for?



So Inzi's best position, was 6th.


However, I agree to an extent. Inzi at 3 could have broken a lot of records. Maybe he lacked confidence, or maybe, he was a 'coward'.


See, I usually admit to our players fault.



You lot, just deflect. Very cowardly :)
The customary quote would have been enough, i end up at that usually:yk

[OZGOD]

Disagreed. Your best bat should bat at a position where he is best suited. #4 is the position that glues the entire batting lineup together - the one that "talks to the openers/1-down" as well as the middle order and mostly also into the tail. Both Miandad and Richards batted at #4 and were the true fighters of this game.

Tendulkar is considered one of the best bats in the world - so instead of inferring the truth in that title from the batting position, it should be the other way around - i.e. infer which position signifies that of your best bat.

Actually, King Viv batted at No.3 during his power years. He moved down the order as he got older.


Isaac V A Richards (West Indies) - Test Cricket
Performance Analysis by Batting Position
Position Inns NO 50s 100s HS Runs Avg
Opening 4 0 2 1 101 279 69.75
No. 3 59 2 14 12 291 3508 61.54
No. 4 41 3 9 4 *182 1566 41.21
No. 5 63 6 18 6 208 2720 47.72
No. 6 10 0 2 1 105 390 39.00
No. 7 2 0 0 0 23 35 17.50
No. 8 3 1 0 0 33 42 21.00
No. 9
No. 10
No. 11
Overall 182 12 45 24 291 8540 50.24


Imran Khan, in his tribute to King Viv in 1993 when Viv retired, had this to say:


Richards' strategy was simple: he would come in at No. 3 and launch an all-out offensive against the opposition's main strike bowlers. It was not uncommon to see a one-day field setting shortly after the fall of the first wicket on the first morning of the Test. He never used to rely on his defence. Instead, he would put the bowlers on the defensive. Once he had achieved that, he would relax and pick off runs.

His onslaught was of enormous benefit to his team. It would demoralise the opposition's strike bowlers and take the pressure off his team. His innings never followed the pattern like, for instance, those of Gavaskar and Boycott. The last two would get themselves in, pick off the bad balls adn defend themselves against the good ones. They would also know the bowlers they wanted to score off and the ones they had to keep out.

If there is a pattern with Richards it ws the complete opposite to that of Gavaskar and Boycott. He would take on the strike bowlers and try to hit everything, including the good-length deliveries, then suddenly decide to become defensive and start harmless half-volleys. Then, as if he had enough rest, he would resume the offensive.

I felt that he was never as effective at No. 5 as he was at No. 3. When he took over the captaincy, No. 5 was even more of a pressure position for him and since he did not have a strong de- fence he would at times fall between two stools.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/60019.html

Personally, I don't think there's a huge difference between No.3 and No.4 as a regular position. It's more the message it sends when someone moves up when an opener's wicket falls in a difficult situation. I remember Adam Gilchrist promoting himself to No.3 with Australia facing a 141-run first innings deficit (88 at the time he came in) against India at Chennai in 2004.

Captain Courageous
Peter English
October 16, 2004

It was a courageous effort when Adam Gilchrist warded off spin and fatigue

In his fifth Test as captain, Adam Gilchrist has taken responsibility to a new level. By batting at No.3 in Australia's second innings, he gave his side their only chance of saving the match. After three days behind the stumps in the sort of heat that saps energy even out of the locals, Gilchrist could have cooled off in the air-conditioning and waited his turn. Instead he stepped back into the furnace with his team facing a deficit of 88 runs.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/142496.html

[freelance_cricketer]

^ So Viv's average dropped by 20 runs when he batted at #4 :13:

[OZGOD]

^ So Viv's average dropped by 20 runs when he batted at #4 :13:

He may have been a number of years older. They didn't play as many Tests in a year as players today do.

[in_cutter]

Ye Sachin must be shaking in his boots at the thought of batting at 3 :facepalm:

[OZGOD]

Ye Sachin must be shaking in his boots at the thought of batting at 3 :facepalm:

Someone needs to tell him Mukund is no longer opening :D

[cricketworm]

Stroke Players play at number 1,2,3. Run Machine bats at number 4. Laxman always preferred number 3 position, can't bat there, because RSD is the best at that position. It's not like SRT doesn't listen to request, in 07 WC he did listen to coach/captain, and moved down to 4. After that horrible WC, there is no way on earth, he is going to change his desired position.

Here is subjective thoughts for 90's fans, I had seen down faces and had horrible memories, what has happened to team psychology losing SRT early on. I think this has been continued in dressing room. Even with scratchy or out of form Sachin on field represent hope, similar to RSD, whose batting style is suited for 1,2,3. Losing hope in early in inning ... hmm not sure it would have won many tests this way.

LOL at title. Besides VVS hasn't lasted much at number 3, so I don't what's the point anyway ... yeh 17 years old bled from nose after Waqar's bouncer on his debut series, continued batting, LOL at 'scared' again.

[WithLoveFromCanada]

For tendulkar - dravid, laxman, raina, mishra dhoni are all night watchmen.

[CORNERED-TIGER]

Don use to bat at 3

"God of cricket" is scared of red cherry:P

[AZ]

Ironically all the so called pressure players are back in the pavilion, its SRT battling it again in the 2nd Innings. If he manages to help India draw this match then it will be a morale booster victory for the team who can carry on some confidence going into the Odis.

Sachin was also out, foot was in the air when Prior attempted a stumping.

[RWAC]

I think Tendulkar is needed at #4. Acts as the middle bridge between the openers/1-down and the middle/lower order.

And the Indian team's left over baggage from the 90s does play a role. If he comes out to open and gets out early (can happen at ANY position), he never really had much support to come after him and it showed clearly that the team started playing like the match was half lost. This is the same reason when Ganguly came to the scene he batted lower down the order despite opening in ODIs.

I agree in the past decade the batting lineup has been such that he can afford to bat anywhere and be assured he still has match winners coming to bat after him, but I think it's all about comfort now.

[Wised up]

He should have moved up to number 3 in this scenario seeing how out of form Laxman is. However, I won't say he is scared.

[cricketworm]

If you can answer why KP who was in form hit a 200 at Lords, doesn't come at number 3 in 2n inning of 2nd test and there on for 3rd test and 4th one, but Bell comes at number 3. If you can answer this, then you can also answer why SRT doesn't come at number 3.

but no-one questions England or KP, because ploy hasn't work for India and Bell has batted well at number 3, and questions SRT and Team India. Fair enough, people love criticizing team who is down and just went through horror series. Go on!

[iafzal]

Well, Inzy HAS been often criticized heavily for refusing to push himself up the order. Pakistani captains have always had this curious mindset of believing that they can perform the rescue act better than the stabilizing act.

Not Imran Khan, that is 92 WC.

[pakiman740]

well i am a complete pakistani and i really dont like india but i respect tandukar alot so i dont under a guy with 99 centurys coudlnt pull one off in 4 tests

but wait what dont get even more is if he cant preform he should do his country a favor give somebody else his spot

please explain to me

[pakiman740]

sorry mistiped i dont understand a guy with 99 centruys could not pull one off in 4 crucial tests

[Poison]

Ironically all the so called pressure players are back in the pavilion, its SRT battling it again in the 2nd Innings. If he manages to help India draw this match then it will be a morale booster victory for the team who can carry on some confidence going into the Odis.

:))) Yes with the series 3-0 and India 150 runs behind, the pressure is REALLY ON :moyo

[SID_ZONE]

:))) Yes with the series 3-0 and India 150 runs behind, the pressure is REALLY ON :moyo

Considering the way India batted in the whole series, it would be one great effort from them to salvage a draw.

PP's modus operandi..

If Tendulkar falls cheaply.."he doesn't score when team needs him"

If Tendulkar scores, India scores big.."flat wicket! even Raina got runs lol"

If Tendulkar scores while others fail.."useless runs since those runs won't win India the match"
:yk

[Justcrazy]

I think Tendulkar does not like to change things, he sticks to positions, maybe he is superstitious.

[Robert]

but no-one questions England or KP, because ploy hasn't work for India and Bell has batted well at number 3, and questions SRT and Team India. Fair enough, people love criticizing team who is down and just went through horror series. Go on!

Actuallty we have questioned KP quite a lot, and many think he should bat at #3. He even dropped to #5 for a while behind Collingwood! But now we have guys scoring at #3 so the questioning has stopped.

[AZulfi]

Sachin has scored most of his runs in one-dayers as an opener!

And it is not like if you bat at 4 in tests, you will never get to face the opposition's main strike bowlers in the whole innings! maybe not straightaway at times but the fielding captain w'd often bring his best bowlers back into the attack once the opposition's main or best batsman has arrived at the wicket

Also if you do go on to make a big score, you will have often negotiated the second and sometimes even the third new ball.

btw Sobers also scored the majority of his test runs batting at 6 or 7. I know he was an all-rounder..

[Poison]

Considering the way India batted in the whole series, it would be one great effort from them to salvage a draw.

PP's modus operandi..

If Tendulkar falls cheaply.."he doesn't score when team needs him"

If Tendulkar scores, India scores big.."flat wicket! even Raina got runs lol"

If Tendulkar scores while others fail.."useless runs since those runs won't win India the match"
:yk

LOL you've had 2 days to bat with 2 innings in hand on a flat deck, if you don't hold for a draw it'll be your worst result of the series.

Also good to know you've acquainted yourself with our methods :afridi

[MR__KHAN__JI]

one of the reasons why

ponting >dravid>Tendu

[cricketindiafan]

one of the reasons why

ponting >dravid>Tendu

Ponting has neer opened in tests, nor has he kept wickets ever.

So, shouldn't it be Dravid>>>Ponting > Tendulkar?

And why stop there. Even Sir Don never opened the innings.

So Dravid > Sir Don :)

[Ironcat]

Actually, King Viv batted at No.3 during his power years. He moved down the order as he got older.


Isaac V A Richards (West Indies) - Test Cricket
Performance Analysis by Batting Position
Position Inns NO 50s 100s HS Runs Avg
Opening 4 0 2 1 101 279 69.75
No. 3 59 2 14 12 291 3508 61.54
No. 4 41 3 9 4 *182 1566 41.21
No. 5 63 6 18 6 208 2720 47.72
No. 6 10 0 2 1 105 390 39.00
No. 7 2 0 0 0 23 35 17.50
No. 8 3 1 0 0 33 42 21.00
No. 9
No. 10
No. 11
Overall 182 12 45 24 291 8540 50.24


Imran Khan, in his tribute to King Viv in 1993 when Viv retired, had this to say:



Personally, I don't think there's a huge difference between No.3 and No.4 as a regular position. It's more the message it sends when someone moves up when an opener's wicket falls in a difficult situation. I remember Adam Gilchrist promoting himself to No.3 with Australia facing a 141-run first innings deficit (88 at the time he came in) against India at Chennai in 2004.
Thanks, Richards batted at #3 in the first half of his career - when he wasn't the guy to carry his team. Lloyd was supposed to work with the middle order and the tail - and Richards had a free rein.

Once Lloyld retired, Richards became the Godfather and had to make sure he could stay with the tail - and, yes, WI had a long one with bowlers who spent 99% of their training time on bowling.

The stability of Greenidge/Haynes/Richardson triumvariate was another factor.

In a banana peel, Richards settled at #4 in the seasoned part of his career and thought it was the position best suited to him and his role. And that's how it should be. Ponting and Lara remained at #3 because that's where they thought their meal was best prepared.

[Ironcat]

^ So Viv's average dropped by 20 runs when he batted at #4 :13:
He became the captain. Of the sort = 1 - :misbah

Seriously though, non-WI bowling got better (Imran, Hadlee, Lillee, Botham, Kapil, etc).

[Ironcat]

Personally, I don't think there's a huge difference between No.3 and No.4 as a regular position. It's more the message it sends when someone moves up when an opener's wicket falls in a difficult situation. I remember Adam Gilchrist promoting himself to No.3 with Australia facing a 141-run first innings deficit (88 at the time he came in) against India at Chennai in 2004.
Completely agreed with this part. My gripe with the OP was over the generalization made about the best bat's "permanent" position in a lineup.

[MR__KHAN__JI]

Ponting has neer opened in tests, nor has he kept wickets ever.

So, shouldn't it be Dravid>>>Ponting > Tendulkar?

And why stop there. Even Sir Don never opened the innings.

So Dravid > Sir Don :)

emphasis on ONE of the reasons why....