Zaheer Abbas v Younis Khan - Test

[AmmarAshraf]

Both are tremendous test player.

Year back Cricinfo published their ''Pakistan Test XI'' (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/magazine/alltime.html?site_area=2199) and they picked Zaheer Abbas at no 3 position. This prompt me to think that Younis Khan is best option for that so I extracted some stats to check how is better in numbers.

There is no doubt about the greatness of Zaheer Abbas. In full flow, he was a sight for sore eyes. His avarice for runs matched that of the Australian legend, and that was why he was dubbed the Asian Bradman.

But on the other Younis Khan who transformed himself in to No 3 batsman scored some great innings for Pakistan. He also played some major role to clinch victories for Pakistan like famous win against India where he scored 267 runs (In Bangalore) which is arguably Younis Khan's best innings so far. That innings announced Younis Khan on the big stage

I have mentioned both players stats in other thread but as AZ bahi said comparison worth its own thread so here it is.

Following are some stats of both players

Career Summary of Both Players


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WQgDXyz5Gio/Tr-yhBxU7LI/AAAAAAAAE3s/f1HgLYz086Y/s912/11.png



% runs scored against Opposition

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1dT9-1aCnCU/Tr-yf2tTsyI/AAAAAAAAE3U/hLECBjET0zY/s341/ZA.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3yFXqq1cAis/Tr-ygM63r0I/AAAAAAAAE3c/ORuC7eNkYH0/s327/YK.png



Zaheer Abbas's Batting Graph

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eBuD7fqxXW4/Tr-5SyZSmzI/AAAAAAAAE4I/Wk6_eU5Sylc/s791/ZZBatting.png



Younis Khan's Batting Graph

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SLrsQpNWSFg/Tr-5S2jwXFI/AAAAAAAAE4M/AYiLrlR7EsQ/s849/YKBatting.png

Legends
Red = 50s
Blue = 100s
Yellow = 200s
Purple = 300s


ICC Rating Graph Comparison

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-yMtJmekB9jc/Tr-yf_D7vbI/AAAAAAAAE3Y/sIaWxqDp73g/s753/RatingYK-ZA.png

In my opinion Younis Khan is better batsman than Zaheer Abbas. My opinion is not only based on numbers.

Who is/was the best batsman for Pakistan according to you?

Discuss!!

[Pakcricket89]

We should not really compare the batsman of different eras like this because pitches have improved tremendously and bowling standards have gone down from what it was in 70's and 80's

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Zaheer abbas, especially since he played on uncovered pitches, Michael Holding said during an MCC event, and i quote here "im so happy i never played a test against him"

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ONXZJ_8xSac" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

go from 1.10 min onwards

[AZ]

haha thanks for this AA.

a very interesting comparison, I knew YK was good but admittedly would never put him in the Legends bracket.

but the stats argument is very compelling, am quite unsure!

[Zaz]

Zaheer from what ive read was similar in style and batting prowess to yousuf So much so that he also wasnt regarded as a big match winner or a man of crises -just like moyo isnt

[shahrukh619]

wow these stats show how good Younis Khan actually is. Zaheer Abbas wasn't really good in second innings, interesting.

[*sallu*]

haha thanks for this AA.

a very interesting comparison, I knew YK was good but admittedly would never put him in the Legends bracket.

but the stats argument is very compelling, am quite unsure!

Nothing surprising about that, the typical Pakistan fan wants swagger and flamboyance over results, so it doesn't matter if statistically speaking hes in the top 3 Pakistani batsmen ever (at least).

[sakss]

Yk although a legend already,,,cannot be compared to the zaheer abbas...both played in different eras...
zaheer when windies were a great force and pitches were difficult..

Yk a naturally talented batsman has a great record all round and is one of the finest batsmen of the modern era..

[Bullet Drive]

Great great analysis. Thanks POTW!

&& although Younis is a great, he is nowhere near Zaheer 'asian bradman' Abbas. Abbas was something different and stats don't tell the whole story. What a superb player he was. He played on uncovered pitches against the WI dominant pace attack and oh what an achievement that is. He truly is a great of the game.

Michael Holding once him self said 'Lucky I never played a test match against him' That's an extremely strong statement to make from a fast bowling legend of the game. It shows the greatness of the Asian bradman.

Younis Khan however isn't a legend. He is a very fine player and isn't an all time legend like Zaheer however if Younis plays 100 tests with an average of 50. He may pose a strong case in being a legend. 300+ scores, many double centuries and he already has 18 test centuries. How long can he go on?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JGKwVrpsM1w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The great man.

[Afridi_Fan]

Zaheer Abbas for me. YK has been a tremendous servant for Pakistan cricket especially in tests. But as Sallu said I will take more flamboyant Zaheer than YK. And I doubt that many experts around the glob who have seen Zaheer and YK both bat will put YK ahead of Zaheer in their All Time Pakistan Test XI.

[saeed-sohail]

Man is one of only three pakistanis to average 50+ in test cricket.

Has the best games per hundred ratio.

One of only three pakistanis to be ranked #1.

Best #3 we have produced.

[miandadrules]

Great great analysis. Thanks POTW!

&& although Younis is a great, he is nowhere near Zaheer 'asian bradman' Abbas. Abbas was something different and stats don't tell the whole story. What a superb player he was. He played on uncovered pitches against the WI dominant pace attack and oh what an achievement that is. He truly is a great of the game.

Michael Holding once him self said 'Lucky I never played a test match against him' That's an extremely strong statement to make from a fast bowling legend of the game. It shows the greatness of the Asian bradman.

Younis Khan however isn't a legend. He is a very fine player and isn't an all time legend like Zaheer however if Younis plays 100 tests with an average of 50. He may pose a strong case in being a legend. 300+ scores, many double centuries and he already has 18 test centuries. How long can he go on?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JGKwVrpsM1w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The great man.

Zaheer averaged 18 against WI.

[saeed-sohail]

I doubt pitches were uncovered during Abbas's career.

[Black Zero]

Man is one of only three pakistanis to average 50+ in test cricket.

Has the best games per hundred ratio.

One of only three pakistanis to be ranked #1.

Best #3 we have produced.

hasn't you said that today's 50 was equal to 45 of yester-years?

[abdulhafeez306]

@OP great analysis. However I was wondering if you could add their respective averages against various teams as well as home and away averages. Also if you could add their averages at various batting positions. The one to scrutinize will obviously be the number 3 position.

Personally I would take the fight and grit of Younis over the flamboyance of Zaheer. Younis is a match winner while Zaheer was a mere flat track bully at times. When the going got tough, Zaheer hardly got going which is why the only thing he is remembered for is his flamboyance rather than substantial innings (not counting the 200s scored against India).

[abdulhafeez306]

Great great analysis. Thanks POTW!

&& although Younis is a great, he is nowhere near Zaheer 'asian bradman' Abbas. Abbas was something different and stats don't tell the whole story. What a superb player he was. He played on uncovered pitches against the WI dominant pace attack and oh what an achievement that is. He truly is a great of the game.

Michael Holding once him self said 'Lucky I never played a test match against him' That's an extremely strong statement to make from a fast bowling legend of the game. It shows the greatness of the Asian bradman.

Younis Khan however isn't a legend. He is a very fine player and isn't an all time legend like Zaheer however if Younis plays 100 tests with an average of 50. He may pose a strong case in being a legend. 300+ scores, many double centuries and he already has 18 test centuries. How long can he go on?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JGKwVrpsM1w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The great man.

What does it matter if he played against Windies? He hardly scored against them. I don't think highlighting his failures against West Indies actually enhances his greatness.

[JibranAnsari]

I like zaheer abbas for his pure class and elegance but Younis khan has beena better sevant. His 4th innings stats show that he can play on detoriating pitches really well.

[MVP26]

Younis is really underrated. You just have to see his 4th innings average always saving us from defeat lots of time.

I will take younis over zaheer abbas

[saeed-sohail]

hasn't you said that today's 50 was equal to 45 of yester-years?

Not when we are talking about YK.

[AZ]

Nothing surprising about that, the typical Pakistan fan wants swagger and flamboyance over results, so it doesn't matter if statistically speaking hes in the top 3 Pakistani batsmen ever (at least).

and who said I am the :quote:typical Pak fan:quote:?

its a close one, certainly.

[CORNERED-TIGER]

zaheer abbas a pure genius!

[Afridi_Fan]

Not when we are talking about YK.

Indeed. :))

[Shahid20Ten]

Zaheer Abbas is far away from any other Pakistani batsman in ODIs

[s2k]

This is tough...........i really cant choose between the 2...........though YK is yet to play England AUS or SA in last 5 years.

[CORNERED-TIGER]

This is tough...........i really cant choose between the 2...........though YK is yet to play England AUS or SA in last 5 years.

younus played vs south africa in 2010 in dubai...

and if u ment in those countries... then yeh last was in south africa in 2007

[Zaz]

This is tough...........i really cant choose between the 2...........though YK is yet to play England AUS or SA in last 5 years.

He missed the eng n aussie tours last yr through the arrogance of Ijaz Butt, no fault of his own

He played against sth africa last yr in dubai n gt a 100, avges a very good 46 against them with 3 100s in total

[s2k]

younus played vs south africa in 2010 in dubai...

and if u ment in those countries... then yeh last was in south africa in 2007

Yes so really cant judge him on that.

Zaheer only failed againist the might WI......but so did Miandad......

[s2k]

He missed the eng n aussie tours last yr through the arrogance of Ijaz Butt, no fault of his own

He played against sth africa last yr in dubai n gt a 100, avges a very good 46 against them with 3 100s in total

Actually i meant playing in those countries.Whatever may be the reason bt he hasnt toured there in last 5 years which is a long time.

[VTEC]

Zaheer Abbas was in another league

Stats may show Younus to be superior but if Zaheer was batting in this day and age he would be far far ahead

Also in ODIs Zaheer was unmatched
Average of 47 and SR of 86

[Zaz]

Actually i meant playing in those countries.Whatever may be the reason bt he hasnt toured there in last 5 years which is a long time.

True but hes played 13 tests combined in aus, eng n sth africa before avging a decent 43 combined so no reason why he wont do well there again

[W63L35]

ammar... excellent analysis.


But comparing the averages of different era is not so easy.... becuase of number of reasons which I won't go over... most of the intelligent PPers already know that expect a few you-know-who!

As far as ODIs are concerned.... Zaheer is an all time great ... YK does not even come close.

From tests stand point ....in my opinion, zaheer was much better batsman to watch .... as far as being stylish is concerned. He (arguably) had the best cover drive in his era.... and his use of wrist was unmatched..... but having said that, Zaheer (for most of his career) had a luxury of batting with an extremely strong batting line up which included Majid, Sadiq, Mudassar, Mushtaq, Asif and of course Miandad.

Younis of the other hand had only Inzi (and then MoYo) to rely upon.... no solid opening batsman who would a solid start to built upon.

Zaheer batted on difficult wicket for the most of his life .... against very solid furious & fast bowlers. YK batted on mostly placid wickets against not so great bowlers expect a few Australians.

YK had extremely solid bowling line up which would get the opposition out but Zaheer's probems from 1969 - 1976 was that we never had any bowlers who could not get the opposition out even once!

So ...based on these factors, it is impossible to judge who was better overall..... but if you watch Zaheer's video clips, you can easily tell that Zaheer was much more stylish (and joy to watch) that any of the batsmen of today. Azhar-ud-din came very close to Zaheer in stylish batting...cover-drives and wrist work.

[saeed-sohail]

WL who would you pick at #3 for an all time Pakistan eleven?

[CORNERED-TIGER]

ammar... excellent analysis.


But comparing the averages of different era is not so easy.... becuase of number of reasons which I won't go over... most of the intelligent PPers already know that expect a few you-know-who!

As far as ODIs are concerned.... Zaheer is an all time great ... YK does not even come close.

From tests stand point ....in my opinion, zaheer was much better batsman to watch .... as far as being stylish is concerned. He (arguably) had the best cover drive in his era.... and his use of wrist was unmatched..... but having said that, Zaheer (for most of his career) had a luxury of batting with an extremely strong batting line up which included Majid, Sadiq, Mudassar, Mushtaq, Asif and of course Miandad.

Younis of the other hand had only Inzi (and then MoYo) to rely upon.... no solid opening batsman who would a solid start to built upon.

Zaheer batted on difficult wicket for the most of his life .... against very solid furious & fast bowlers. YK batted on mostly placid wickets against not so great bowlers expect a few Australians.

YK had extremely solid bowling line up which would get the opposition out but Zaheer's probems from 1969 - 1976 was that we never had any bowlers who could not get the opposition out even once!

So ...based on these factors, it is impossible to judge who was better overall..... but if you watch Zaheer's video clips, you can easily tell that Zaheer was much more stylish (and joy to watch) that any of the batsmen of today. Azhar-ud-din came very close to Zaheer in stylish batting...cover-drives and wrist work.

nice... but i would have zaheer abbas .. in any pk team... over yousuf n younus... never cared abt averages:afridi .... the impact zaheer had on pakistan batting is :akhtar MASSIVE!!!

[W63L35]

nice... but i would have zaheer abbas .. in any pk team... over yousuf n younus... never cared abt averages:afridi .... the impact zaheer had on pakistan batting is :akhtar MASSIVE!!!

WL who would you pick at #3 for an all time Pakistan eleven?

Off course I would pick Zaheer Abbas....for his stylish batting even though YK has batted better under pressure than Zaheer.

[SOSami]

Younis Khan's stats, unlike a lot of other batsmen, stand the test of detailed analysis.

His 4th innings average is unbeliveable. Absolute travesty he was robbed of a couple of his best years due to silly politics - it's something that is often forgotten when we think of Pakistan wasting talent, but to have a fully-fit, world-class, T20WC-winning captain out for so long was as poor as anything else we have seen in recent times. Good to see him back.

As for comparison to Zaheer Abbas - I don't know.

[Zaz]

Yk for me! Id rather have a fighter who scores when its needed the most- when the going gets tough rather than a flamboyant stylish bat who only fills his boots when the going is easy

[*sallu*]

Younis Khan's stats, unlike a lot of other batsmen, stand the test of detailed analysis.

His 4th innings average is unbeliveable. Absolute travesty he was robbed of a couple of his best years due to silly politics - it's something that is often forgotten when we think of Pakistan wasting talent, but to have a fully-fit, world-class, T20WC-winning captain out for so long was as poor as anything else we have seen in recent times. Good to see him back.

As for comparison to Zaheer Abbas - I don't know.

Absolutely spot on, even guys like Inzi and Moyo and Miandad have come under the scanner for some statistical deficiency, but not Younis

[W63L35]

Younis Khan's stats, unlike a lot of other batsmen, stand the test of detailed analysis.

His 4th innings average is unbeliveable. Absolute travesty he was robbed of a couple of his best years due to silly politics - it's something that is often forgotten when we think of Pakistan wasting talent, but to have a fully-fit, world-class, T20WC-winning captain out for so long was as poor as anything else we have seen in recent times. Good to see him back.

As for comparison to Zaheer Abbas - I don't know.

That is exactly what I meant when I said, that YK batted under pressure more than any other Pakistani batsman except Asif "the man of crisis" Iqbal.

[saeed-sohail]

Now who is going to open best openers thread?

Lets start with.....

Hanif Mohammad v Shoaib Malik.

[SOSami]

Absolutely spot on, even guys like Inzi and Moyo and Miandad have come under the scanner for some statistical deficiency, but not Younis

Yea, and just as importantly the stats feel about right too. Seeing Younis Khan walk out on a seaming pitch doesn't fill us with dread, unlike with other players. Seeing him walk out with Pakistan 0/1 in the 4th innings provides comfort too. Plus he batted 3 and yet was able of counter-attacking too.


That is exactly what I meant when I said, that YK batted under pressure more than any other Pakistani batsman except Asif "the man of crisis" Iqbal.

Definitely.

[Asif Iqbal was man for a crisis too? Don't know much about him!]

[W63L35]

[Asif Iqbal was man for a crisis too? Don't know much about him!]

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=3720540&postcount=11

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=3710802&postcount=39

[Pete Rose]

Zaheer certainly is held in high regard, and has also done well against Australia. However, the big boys of his time were windies. He was abysmal against them overall 18 average - no redemtion even when playing against them at home he averaged 20 odd.
Yk unlike Moyo and Inzi has done well against South Africa ( boosted by home conditions scores) but like them is not so flash against Australia. It's a pity he won't get to add to his 6 tests against them since we don't play Oz in tests too soon.
One thing I can say is that I dislike Zaheer given his shoddy performance as manager on THAT England tour. I know, nothing to do with hid playing capability.

[SOSami]

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=3720540&postcount=11

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showpost.php?p=3710802&postcount=39
Interesting. Thanks :)

Did you got POTW for that first one? Should have.

[W63L35]

Did you got POTW for that first one? Should have.


No. I did not.... but that is OK.... you (other posters) appreciating that post (and other posts) is much bigger recognition that the POTW nomination! :)