Who is the worst CURRENT captain?

[UmarMalik]

Who do you think is the worst current captain? Me and a friend had a debate over Ross Taylor today, but he thinks there is no bad captain in the world cricket at the moment..

So I thought of asking you guys..!

I think it has to be Ross Taylor at the moment

[Zamee]

Dhoni as a test captain, Misbah as a LOI captain...

[Down2Earth]

strauss is rubbish

[Ayyubjavvs]

Ross Taylor is quite a good captain, just that his team underachieve a lot

[Asif321]

i dont find any worst captain at the moment

[Pakistanpassion]

T20: Hafeez
Test: Darren Sammy.
ODI: Misbah

[Marshland]

Rossco isn't the worst, he does a job with the bat and if given a predominantly pace attack, knows the ins and outs of how to handle and use them. He's won numerous ODIs for us both as captain and just a batter, and a test in Australia as well.

[Pakistanpassion]

Rossco isn't the worst, he does a job with the bat and if given a predominantly pace attack, knows the ins and outs of how to handle and use them. He's won numerous ODIs for us both as captain and just a batter, and a test in Australia as well.

Yes I remember his ODI knock against Pakistan :shoaib

[Ayyubjavvs]

Rossco isn't the worst, he does a job with the bat and if given a predominantly pace attack, knows the ins and outs of how to handle and use them. He's won numerous ODIs for us both as captain and just a batter, and a test in Australia as well.
Yes

I thought Vettori was a bit defensive though a good player, Taylor uses his bowlers well just the batsmen are unreliable

I remember Taylor's hundred against Pakistan too unbelievable innings went from 69 off 108 to 62 in 16 balls against Shoaib Akhtar, Abdulrazzaq and Abdurrehman unbelievable bashes

[withlovefrom vizag]

Dhoni as a test captain, Misbah as a LOI captain...

ohhh,MSD!!!

Is he the guy who took the team to test no 1??

[MattyB]

strauss is rubbish

Really?

He hasn't been brilliant against South Africa however he has done very well against every other team in the world, he took over after a disastrous period under Pietersen and has taken England to new heights.

It's very hard to tell who the best and worst captains are just because of the difference in quality of players they have playing for them.

I would say Sammy is probably the best captain in Test cricket due to how well his West Indian team are doing despite all the problems he faces with constant conflict between players and with the cricket board..

[Fawad2010]

Jayawardene. Looks clueless most of the time, almost like he's waiting for Sanga to pass down the orders...


IMO

[Executioner]

Darenn Sammy IMO

[LegCutter]

Darenn Sammy IMO

The man who united a broken and battered West Indian team, and brought them back on the face of the cricketing world? No I dont agree.

At the moment, I dont think there's a single 'worst captain'; but Misbah's recent LOI career s looking a tad shabby (note: i said LOI); with the England 4-0, and then losing the T20, losing to India in the Asia Cup, and then losing the series to SL.

[amit]

ms dhoni is the worst captain these days. about time gambhir was made the captain of india

[cricketfan86]

Misbah in odi

[praveen]

Considering the big teams , Dhoni at tests and Jaya at ODIs.

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Stuart broad t20s

[MattyB]

Stuart broad t20s

Really?

Of the 6 games he has been captain for they have won 4 of them, which is pretty good considering how the team has been chopped and changed so much and how much of the middle order is very inexperienced...

[Fearless-Striker]

Darenn Sammy IMO


You have got to be joking me right

This man lead a inexperienced WI team that left out most of its stars quite well. His not talented but a very hard worker. He has contributed to WI cricket in so many ways at a time when WI looked like a club side.

He always had a poor team but he kept his team fighting and i remember watching his bowl against ENG recently, when WI were a bowler short(injury to roach) and this guy bowled i think 20 over spell

with a little talent he had, his positive attitude and fighting abilities has helped west indies atleast complete over last few years

[GujjarSher]

Surprisingly enough, no major team in world cricket really has a "bad" captain at the moment.

And then you have some people on here saying Strauss is a bad captain... I mean why are these people even allowed to post nonsense.

[FusedBulb]

T20: Hafeez
Test: Darren Sammy.
ODI: Misbah

Misbah in odi

Misbah as a captain may make some mistakes here n there (as after all, he is a human being) but on a broader level he does not make blunders or takes idiotic decisions. Decision making wise he is a fairly OK captain IMO.

The issue is his batting style that on one helps in resisting against batting collapses but on the other hand he stretches it way too long. As I said it before, this is the ONLY way he knows how to bat.... tuk tuk, which is not bad if used properly.

So the general human psychology rule is, the masses follow the leader. Aggressive, intelligent, and sharp leader will automatically push the followers to be the same.
A "Phuss phuss" dheela dhaala leader will turn the masses that follow him into non-productive lazy bums.

Having Misbah as the captain has it's advantages and drawbacks. Naturally his batting style and batting mindset has become such a contagious decease that we have lost the blaze and fire power in the entire batting line.
Sometimes I feel that this tuk tuk batting style's effect has trickled down all the way to U-19.

Ideally, Misbah would have a been better prospect if he had played as a regular member in the squad whose role would have been to resist the collapse, but our problem is that we don't have a suitable replacement. So we are kinda stuck in a rut. (Lakeer ka fakeer). The next senior becomes the captain. After Misbah we will have Hafeez as the captain, then Faisal Iqbal, then Imran Farhat, then Kamran Akmal, then Saeed Ajmal, then Sami, then Umer Akmal, then Wahab Riaz, then Umer Gul, then Sohail Tanvir, then Azhar Ali and then perhaps Asad Shafiq followed by Adnan Akmal or something.

[dadvoc]

Ross taylor and Sammy and ironically they both are playing against each other ;p

[PakFan2010]

Test: Shahid Afrdii
ODI: Shahid Afridi
T20: Shahid Afridi
County: Shahid Afridi

[cricketfan86]

Test: Shahid Afrdii
ODI: Shahid Afridi
T20: Shahid Afridi
County: Shahid Afridi

read da thread title carefully current captain n afridi iz not not captain right now

[farazaidi]

People tend to confuse Misbah's batting with his captaincy. Not that he is the worst batsman in the team, just not batting up to his required standard. His captaincy has been alright barring minor mistakes here and there which is allowed for everyone.

There arent really bad captains out there, if I had to name one, it'll be Strauss for his moderate approach. He has improved on that now but I remember when he started, he was a very very defensive captain

[Bullet Drive]

Misbah in ODI's for sure!

[ads101]

Strauss.

Pretty defensive average captain. And unlike captains such as Smith, Misbah, Clarke, doesn't lead from the front with the bat holding the team together. He's more of a passenger in the side. And his captaincy isn't as intelligent as Clarke for example.

Can't believe people saying Sammy. He's a decent captain but great leader. Look how WI are improving under him, despite the fairly limited resources he has.

Dhoni's is an excellent ODI captain, maybe not great test captain of late. Still he has a harder bowling attack to manage unlike Strauss who has an excellent, very balanced one.

Cook needs to come in for Strauss as captain. His captaincy has been pretty good in ODIs.

[iZeeshan]

Misbah in LOI easily. Clueless, defensive, reactionary.

[Saqs]

Strauss.

Pretty defensive average captain. And unlike captains such as Smith, Misbah, Clarke, doesn't lead from the front with the bat holding the team together. He's more of a passenger in the side. And his captaincy isn't as intelligent as Clarke for example.

Can't believe people saying Sammy. He's a decent captain but great leader. Look how WI are improving under him, despite the fairly limited resources he has.

Dhoni's is an excellent ODI captain, maybe not great test captain of late. Still he has a harder bowling attack to manage unlike Strauss who has an excellent, very balanced one.

Cook needs to come in for Strauss as captain. His captaincy has been pretty good in ODIs.

Fair post, and I am inclined to agree re Strauss - but for some reason I would like to offer him the benefit of the doubt considering his exemplary record in Tests.

I know everybody says that he has a great bowling unit to command and some pretty decent batsmen, but the thing is, he still needs to get the results, and he has over the past few years.

His stature has grown along with his team, and makes a good partnership with Flower.

He may not be the most imaginative captain, but he is far from being the "worst".

That said, him not playing in the LOI team makes him vulnerable to be replaced.

[Afridirocks]

Misbah in ODI

Very good Captain in Tests

[Space Cat]

Ross Taylor has only been captain for a short period that has been interrupted by injuries.

I would reserve judgement for a little while especially with so much change in the lineup recently.

He looks to be better than Vettori anyway who was far to defensive.

The worst test captain is probably MS Dhoni right now. Hes a great lead from the front style captain in LOIs but in tests you need more than that.

I think Sammy is a great captain but his use of the DRS has been pretty bad(which is mostly ramdins fault for being a horrible judge of LBW)

[Justcrazy]

I agree straus is not good, he lacks action.

We can always blame teams which do not have good attacks, but England have that and yet are defensive.

[Rizwan25]

Misbah is the worse captain hands down. Always shows Phatu mentality :

Before the game: I don't wana lose this game

During the game: oh no looks like I will lose this game, takes off slip and spreads the feild.

End of the game: boys tried well but today wasn't our day.

[Random Aussie]

Well handy that he has won 9 Tests and only lost 1 with that attitude.

As I have said before Pakistan fans dont deserve Misbah. You are in for the shock of your lives when he retires.

[Luton Bad Boy]

Well handy that he has won 9 Tests and only lost 1 with that attitude.

As I have said before Pakistan fans dont deserve Misbah. You are in for the shock of your lives when he retires.

Second that statement....an almost untouchable test record in trying circumstances and these 'fanboys - wannabe's' are able to castigate (look up the word in dictionary.com) such a remarkable, calm, astute captain..

NEWS ALERT: We whitewashed the No.1 test team in alien conditions for both teams and drew with the potential No.1 test team (South Africa) in similar conditions..

[Zamee]

Well handy that he has won 9 Tests and only lost 1 with that attitude.

As I have said before Pakistan fans dont deserve Misbah. You are in for the shock of your lives when he retires.

This!

[saeedhk]

Nobody but sometimes I find Strauss to be quite defensive.

[MattyB]

Strauss is probably the most defensive captain but I wouldn't say he is the worst. With the growth of the shorter forms of the game, batsmen have become less patient so he knows with a defensive field you can wait until the batsmen gives his wicket away. The only thing I would criticise him for was not changing from this method in the first test match against South Africa. The South Africans have enough patience to sit there and bat out a day with ease, the defensive field allowed them to get runs slowly without much risk.

Dhoni isn't a particularly brilliant test captain either, when things are going well he is good but when they were getting thumped last summer he struggled to motivate his players and despite having some of the best batsmen in the world(Tendulkar, Dravid etc.) they still only scored more than 300 one time..

[BoomBoomCricket]

Well handy that he has won 9 Tests and only lost 1 with that attitude.

As I have said before Pakistan fans dont deserve Misbah. You are in for the shock of your lives when he retires.

this

[BoomBoomCricket]

How can the captain with the highest win/loss ratio in test cricket history be the worst captain at the moment?

[BD-fan]

If captaincy is leading by example and contributing for the team then Mushfiq and Sammy. Very poor averages to be in the team. Off the field both are excellent. Says and does the right things.

[cricketfan86]

Well handy that he has won 9 Tests and only lost 1 with that attitude.

As I have said before Pakistan fans dont deserve Misbah. You are in for the shock of your lives when he retires.

misbah in odi iz a bad captain in test he iz a really good captain

[Inziquicksingle]

Misbah is the worst LOI captain. Quite easily.

[cricketworm]

Since, this is MSD bashing week, let me ask why Smith didn't attack enough against England just now?

[cricketworm]

After Prior's wicket there are around 15+ overs still to be bowled. He literally had only one slip for few overs. Then he never gave Tahir a ball instead gave injured Kallis a ball!!? Even knowing how England can play against spin.

[iZeeshan]

How can the captain with the highest win/loss ratio in test cricket history be the worst captain at the moment?

If you would bother to read rather than get offended at the first mention of Misbah, everyone is calling him the worst LOI captain.

His W/L ratio is .77 ffs!

[BoomBoomCricket]

ODI captain who won an Asia Cup and has won twice the number of ODIs that he has lost and has led Pakistan to a high profile series win against SL (Pakistan's first in 6.5 years against a better ranked side) is the worst captain in LOI. Serious lack of knowledge here.

[Ironcat]

If you would bother to read rather than get offended at the first mention of Misbah, everyone is calling him the worst LOI captain.

His W/L ratio is .77 ffs!
Not everyone.

Only the typical Misbah haters who usually don't have anything to back up their claims with.

Misbah has a better ODI W/L than all our previous ODI captains in the last 5 years if you compare apples to apples.

And there are captains today who have worse ODI W/L than him.

So, on both counts, your statement is false.

[farazaidi]

If you would bother to read rather than get offended at the first mention of Misbah, everyone is calling him the worst LOI captain.

His W/L ratio is .77 ffs!

Misbah has actually done better than the super-aggressive captain Afridi. Yup, thats truth, check the records. You'll be surprised !

As Ironcat has stated already, he is way ahead of his peers even in ODIs. He has been handicapped offlate with diabolical team selection coupled with useless seniors who dont know the meaning of retirement, but that is not his fault.

[MattyB]

After Prior's wicket there are around 15+ overs still to be bowled. He literally had only one slip for few overs. Then he never gave Tahir a ball instead gave injured Kallis a ball!!? Even knowing how England can play against spin.

England don't struggle against spin, they struggle against mystery spin. They found it very difficult to pick which way Ajmal was turning the ball whereas Tahir doesn't have that same skill, he only gets wickets when the batsmen play poor shots.

Smith had to be cautious, there was almost no chance at all that they were going to be able to bowl England out and if he was too attacking there was a chance that he could have lost the game. A draw is very acceptable for the Saffers as now we have to really go for it in the 3rd Test to draw the series which will play into their hands.

EDIT: I think Afridi is like Pietersen with the captaincy, both a incredibly good players who are hugely popular(well Pietersen was when he made captain) however they weren't particularly good captains. They along with Flintoff and Hussey prove that not all good players make good captains.

[Bowled 'im]

Agree it's hard to pick a 'worst captain' currently. IMHO each team has the best man available doing the job.

Have to say, although I was skeptical, Clarke is proving to be a very good attacking captain. He is much more attacking than punter ever was (always thought he was too conservative) and some gutsy declarations along with his willingness to mix up the batting and bowling order, along with his form with the bat has silenced most of his critics.........for now anyway..

[iZeeshan]

Not everyone.

Only the typical Misbah haters who usually don't have anything to back up their claims with.

Misbah has a better ODI W/L than all our previous ODI captains in the last 5 years if you compare apples to apples.

And there are captains today who have worse ODI W/L than him.

So, on both counts, your statement is false.

Who of current captains is worse?

And I'm also talking about Misbah's approach. Are any other captains like that? But whatever, that's subjective so just stick to the first question.

[iZeeshan]

Misbah has actually done better than the super-aggressive captain Afridi. Yup, thats truth, check the records. You'll be surprised !

As Ironcat has stated already, he is way ahead of his peers even in ODIs. He has been handicapped offlate with diabolical team selection coupled with useless seniors who dont know the meaning of retirement, but that is not his fault.

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that .77 is greater than .93.

Or are we counting minnows too now?

This isn't even an Afridi/Misbah debate yet you guys are bringing Afridi into it.

This is only about current captains.

[farazaidi]

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that .77 is greater than .93.

Or are we counting minnows too now?

This isn't even an Afridi/Misbah debate yet you guys are bringing Afridi into it.

This is only about current captains.

its not about Afridi/Misbah debate but trying to put things in perspective. His w/l ratio must've dipped after SL series as last I checked, it was well clear of Afridi without the minnows. Anyway, still doesnt change the fact that he has been one of the most successful Pakistan captains ever.

[iZeeshan]

its not about Afridi/Misbah debate but trying to put things in perspective. His w/l ratio must've dipped after SL series as last I checked, it was well clear of Afridi without the minnows. Anyway, still doesnt change the fact that he has been one of the most successful Pakistan captains ever.

How can you even say that when he has an ODI record of .77? That's downright awful and it's only going to dip further with the way things are going.

He is definitely one of Pakistan's most successful test captains, but he's only been captaining for a short period so he still has a lot to prove.

But overall, his record in ODI is quite poor, so overall, he's not one of the most successful test captains. I'm pretty sure others have better records. If not, then he is. Onus is on you to prove it.

But just watching Misbah captaining in an ODI is cringeworthy. Awful, awful captain.

[ads101]

Strauss is probably the most defensive captain but I wouldn't say he is the worst. With the growth of the shorter forms of the game, batsmen have become less patient so he knows with a defensive field you can wait until the batsmen gives his wicket away. The only thing I would criticise him for was not changing from this method in the first test match against South Africa. The South Africans have enough patience to sit there and bat out a day with ease, the defensive field allowed them to get runs slowly without much risk.

Dhoni isn't a particularly brilliant test captain either, when things are going well he is good but when they were getting thumped last summer he struggled to motivate his players and despite having some of the best batsmen in the world(Tendulkar, Dravid etc.) they still only scored more than 300 one time..
Strauss is a decent captain. But there are quite a lot of good captains out there currently. I'd struggle to think of someone who's worse. You could argue Taylor or Rahim but even Bangladesh have been doing a bit better since Rahim took over. And Taylor doesn't seem that bad tactically, he just doesn't really have the resources.

Strauss doesn't lead from the front. Which I feel is an important quality. Misbah for example isn't tactically the best (he isn't terrible though), but he leads with the bat, and often holds our batting together. Collapses are down and we're posting bigger scores. On contrast Strauss is pretty much being kept in the team as he's captain. No one really banks on him saving England in a tight spot anymore. There's Cook, Trott, KP, Prior for that.

Strauss also arguably has the most balanced bowling attack. Which makes captaincy a little easier. Always harder to captain when for example it's a spinners pitch, not much for pacers yet lack of a decent spinner. But Strauss doesn't find himself in those situations.

Strauss was much more useful some time ago. But for the last year or so, he just doesn't feel that important to the team anymore. Only manages one format too. His captaincy isn't out of this world, and doesn't feel justified over poor performance, especially since Cook looks a good bet for captain too.


You could argue Dhoni as worse current test captain, but he's excellent in limited overs. Plus not sure who will replace him, unlike Strauss.

[FusedBulb]

He (MISBAH) has been handicapped offlate with diabolical team selection coupled with useless seniors who dont know the meaning of retirement, but that is not his fault.

This !!

Salman Butt, Asif, Amir, Kamran Akmal and Yasir Hameed. Just imagine the crap that Afridi was asked to lead in comparison to a team that was cleaned up from all the fixers and the parasites that back stabbed the entire nation and then given to Misbah, yet Afridi took the team to WC Semi Final where Misbah pooped like a paralyzed hemorrhoids patient with this tuk tuk tuk tuk on one end. He NEVER had the ability to finish it off.

Again, I am not trying to turn this into Misbah vs Afridi crap as I have stated it before that BOTH are NOT ideal captains. Both are two extremes. One is over confident and the other is under confident.

[Ironcat]

Who of current captains is worse?

And I'm also talking about Misbah's approach. Are any other captains like that? But whatever, that's subjective so just stick to the first question.
Compare apples to apples.

Afridi's W/L after the first 17 ODIs: 0.6
Malik's: Similar to Afridi's
Misbah's: 0.77

Captains improve their captaincy with experience. Once Misbah has captained in 30 ODIs, you can then pull out the 0.93 ratio. He is by the far the best among our current lot.

[Namak_Halaal]

ODI : Misbah
Tests : Dhoni

PS: Nice to see Ironcat come back to planet Earth. Now it's no longer about the 5 year window (because Afridi wins in that department) but now an equal number of ODI matches is important, which is bizarre because I thought Ironcat only rates ODI tournaments and not bilateral ODI series.

:)

[Namak_Halaal]

PPS: I also love the "Captains improve their captaincy with experience." part. Finally talking sense. Time judges a captain, not a blip in the W/L ratios.

[Ironcat]

What is inevitable is that one can accumulate 9K posts. What isn't inevitable is that the last 2K will be any more logical or less desperate.

[Namak_Halaal]

What is inevitable is that one can accumulate 9K posts. What isn't inevitable is that the last 2K will be any more logical or less desperate.

Believe me I have no intention of debating Misbah with you anymore. Your original point has been reduced to a Test W/L ratio from a plethora of futile points and now you are looking for damage control. So much so your interpretation and meaning of stats has changed along with your arguments. This feat is best described as an implosion.

So are you not going to post who in your POV is the worst current captain in cricket? Or are you going to spend all your life on PP racking up posts counts defending a captain who is not only over-reated but has nothing more to offer?

[cricketworm]

England don't struggle against spin, they struggle against mystery spin. They found it very difficult to pick which way Ajmal was turning the ball whereas Tahir doesn't have that same skill, he only gets wickets when the batsmen play poor shots.

Smith had to be cautious, there was almost no chance at all that they were going to be able to bowl England out and if he was too attacking there was a chance that he could have lost the game. A draw is very acceptable for the Saffers as now we have to really go for it in the 3rd Test to draw the series which will play into their hands.

EDIT: I think Afridi is like Pietersen with the captaincy, both a incredibly good players who are hugely popular(well Pietersen was when he made captain) however they weren't particularly good captains. They along with Flintoff and Hussey prove that not all good players make good captains.

England don't struggle against spin? I think you should rephrase that. Have you seen them sweeping blindly? They struggled against Rehman as well.

You can't say there was no way SA was going to all out England. If there was any team who had a chance to win it was SA all along. Chasing 5+ runs on last day is never easy. And as soon as KP got out that was last nail in the coffin for any chance of England winning.

And even after getting dangerous Prior and only 6 wickets to go for win, he still didn't have attacking field. And he brought on injured Kallis instead of Tahir who had a very close shout against England batters. Also, seeing how KP took few wickets, you would reckon that Kallis' spell was really not needed.

He wasn't attacking enough even with 7+ RRR, not sure if past Australian captains would agree with these fielding!

[Ironcat]

Believe me I have no intention of debating Misbah with you anymore. Your original point has been reduced to a Test W/L ratio from a plethora of futile points and now you are looking for damage control. So much so your interpretation and meaning of stats has changed along with your arguments. This feat is best described as an implosion.

So are you not going to post who in your POV is the worst current captain in cricket? Or are you going to spend all your life on PP racking up posts counts defending a captain who is not only over-reated but has nothing more to offer?
The only point proven in this thread is that even Misbah's previously-thought-lower ODI W/L is still better than all our other captains of late. Test W/L and batting and ODI batting are all beyond any dispute anyways.

As for who is the worst current captain, Taylor would be the forerunner - but I wouldn't write him off yet.

[Namak_Halaal]

He is definitely one of Pakistan's most successful test captains, but he's only been captaining for a short period so he still has a lot to prove.



I wonder if the discipline of comparing equal number of matches when calculating Misbah's ODI captaincy W/L ratio is applied when calculating Misbah's Test Captaincy W/L ratio. As they say - Apples with Apples.

[cricketworm]

Few ppl. are against Strauss, but I think Strauss has one of the best man-management skill. Side with like of KP, Broad, Swann, Prior and on top of dictatorship of Flower + managing ECB! I think he is doing excellent job handling the side. Strauss is doing excellent job in managing players like these.

I see power struggle in England side as soon as Strauss is retired.

[Anwar_194]

Afridi is the worst captain ever...And dnt tell me he kept all the guys closer during the world cup...they guy dont know jack about the captaincy and cost us the world cup. Still cant believe how he got out on a full toss ball.

[Ironcat]

I wonder if the discipline of comparing equal number of matches when calculating Misbah's ODI captaincy W/L ratio is applied when calculating Misbah's Test Captaincy W/L ratio. As they say - Apples with Apples.
Why only wonder? Why not give it a shot?

S Butt's only 5 against Misbah's first 5, or Afridi's only one against Misbah's first, or Malik's only 4 against Misbah's first 4.

:snack:

[Ayyubjavvs]

How can you even say that when he has an ODI record of .77? That's downright awful and it's only going to dip further with the way things are going.

He is definitely one of Pakistan's most successful test captains, but he's only been captaining for a short period so he still has a lot to prove.

But overall, his record in ODI is quite poor, so overall, he's not one of the most successful test captains. I'm pretty sure others have better records. If not, then he is. Onus is on you to prove it.

But just watching Misbah captaining in an ODI is cringeworthy. Awful, awful captain.
0.77 is not awful. It means you win 7 matches for every 9 you lose which isn'tawful, just mediocre

[iZeeshan]

Compare apples to apples.

Afridi's W/L after the first 17 ODIs: 0.6
Malik's: Similar to Afridi's
Misbah's: 0.77

Captains improve their captaincy with experience. Once Misbah has captained in 30 ODIs, you can then pull out the 0.93 ratio. He is by the far the best among our current lot.

I see you still have comprehension issues.

No one is making this about Afridi.

I'm asking out of the current lot of CAPTAINS, not Pakistani captains as I clearly said. The Afridi-argument wasn't for you anyway so thanks for butting in.

Read the original title :facepalm:

[iZeeshan]

0.77 is not awful. It means you win 7 matches for every 9 you lose which isn'tawful, just mediocre

That's sad man. How far are you going to go to defend Misbah?

For a team that has a 1.2 W/L ratio, .77 is pretty darn awful. You don't even win as many as you lose!

[cricketworm]

Forget about winning ratio for a while, yes, they are important, but try to discuss the mistakes captains did on the field.

Something like captain made a change and it cost team's best chance to win. Discuss that instead, which is more precise evaluation of a captain.

[iZeeshan]

Forget about winning ratio for a while, yes, they are important, but try to discuss the mistakes captains did on the field.

Something like captain made a change and it cost team's best chance to win. Discuss that instead, which is more precise evaluation of a captain.

No bro, stats are everything and indisputable. How can you even suggest something that you can't back up!?!?!!??!?!?! IT'S PREPOSTEROUS and just not even legitimate!

/sarcasm

[Inziquicksingle]

Forget about winning ratio for a while, yes, they are important, but try to discuss the mistakes captains did on the field.

Something like captain made a change and it cost team's best chance to win. Discuss that instead, which is more precise evaluation of a captain.

Yes, precisely. Misbah is an awful captain because of the lol bad decisions he makes and his defensive mindset.

Only fanboy-tards will always try to make it about stats. The captain is not the sole factor in a teams win-loss ratio. But a good captain stands out regardless of the stats.

Always being results oriented is illogical.

A good captain could have a losing record ala Stephen Fleming. Ricky Ponting has a much better record than Fleming, but only an ignorant person, who doesn't actual watch the sport would say that Ponting is the better captain.

[Ironcat]

I see you still have comprehension issues.

No one is making this about Afridi.

I'm asking out of the current lot of CAPTAINS, not Pakistani captains as I clearly said. The Afridi-argument wasn't for you anyway so thanks for butting in.

Read the original title :facepalm:
Err, I didn't say Misbah was the worst ODI captain. You did. So you need to prove that Misbah has a worse ODI record than, say, Taylor or Sammy.

And if you pull out a W/L ratio on a public forum and expect not to have it questioned, I think you have a problem.

[Ironcat]

Yes, precisely. Misbah is an awful captain because of the lol bad decisions he makes and his defensive mindset.

Only fanboy-tards will always try to make it about stats. The captain is not the sole factor in a teams win-loss ratio. But a good captain stands out regardless of the stats.

Always being results oriented is illogical.

A good captain could have a losing record ala Stephen Fleming. Ricky Ponting has a much better record than Fleming, but only an ignorant person, who doesn't actual watch the sport would say that Ponting is the better captain.
What an awfully constructed post.

Claim: Fleming >>> Ponting
Evidence: "I don't deal in proofs"

[Inziquicksingle]

What an awfully constructed post.

Claim: Fleming >>> Ponting
Evidence: "I don't deal in proofs"

I try to not engage with fanboy-tards these days.

Yawn.

[Ironcat]

Forget about winning ratio for a while, yes, they are important, but try to discuss the mistakes captains did on the field.

Something like captain made a change and it cost team's best chance to win. Discuss that instead, which is more precise evaluation of a captain.
Not sure why. You score 90% on the exam, but will it be alright to judge you based on what you got wrong?

[iZeeshan]

Not sure why. You score 90% on the exam, but will it be alright to judge you based on what you got wrong?

lol, you're back to your ridiculous analogies

We're talking about sport and cricket here - try and stick to that

Misbah is the worst captain currently because he has the worst ODI W/L record out of any respectable team (barring WI team, maybe, idk the W/L, maybe not even them)

Someone should check and post the results

[Ironcat]

lol, you're back to your ridiculous analogies

We're talking about sport and cricket here - try and stick to that

Misbah is the worst captain currently because he has the worst ODI W/L record out of any respectable team (barring WI team, maybe, idk the W/L, maybe not even them)

Someone should check and post the results
Predictable responses.

[Space Cat]

I think a distinction can be made between most successful captain and most skilled captain.

[iZeeshan]

Predictable responses.

I really don't know how to find that kind of a stat, that's why I asked you to

Please find the W/L ratios of the current ODI captains since the 2011 WC

[Ironcat]

I really don't know how to find that kind of a stat, that's why I asked you to

Please find the W/L ratios of the current ODI captains since the 2011 WC
Well, here are some examples.

Sammy:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?captain_involve=44829;class=2;filter=ad vanced;groupby=captains;opposition=1;opposition=2; opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition= 6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=win_loss_ratio ;team=4;template=results;type=team

Taylor:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?captain_involve=44930;class=2;filter=ad vanced;groupby=captains;opposition=1;opposition=2; opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition= 6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=win_loss_ratio ;team=5;template=results;type=team

[Bullet Drive]

This is turning out to be like the 'Misbah captaincy analysis thread' :))

[iZeeshan]

Well, here are some examples.

Sammy:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?captain_involve=44829;class=2;filter=ad vanced;groupby=captains;opposition=1;opposition=2; opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition= 6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=win_loss_ratio ;team=4;template=results;type=team

Taylor:
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?captain_involve=44930;class=2;filter=ad vanced;groupby=captains;opposition=1;opposition=2; opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;opposition= 6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=win_loss_ratio ;team=5;template=results;type=team

Fair enough. Both teams are expected to be worse than Pakistan though.

I guess Misbah isn't the worst statistically, but his stats are nothing to rave about either.

He has to pick it up big team, his reactionary captaincy has been pathetic.

I would definitely say both are better captains than Misbah though, in terms of skill. Just different teams and situations.

[I Believe in the Teesra]

This is turning out to be like the 'Misbah captaincy analysis thread' :))

I like it.

inb413pagethread :gul

[Ironcat]

Fair enough. Both teams are expected to be worse than Pakistan though.

I guess Misbah isn't the worst statistically, but his stats are nothing to rave about either.

He has to pick it up big team, his reactionary captaincy has been pathetic.

I would definitely say both are better captains than Misbah though, in terms of skill. Just different teams and situations.
Sure, 'skill' that sadly doesn't win you the game.

[iZeeshan]

Sure, 'skill' that sadly doesn't win you the game.

You could be a very good captain, but be having board/manager issues (Windies), not have your best XI (selectors), have a weak team, etc

I'm not saying that wasn't or is true for Misbah, just giving you scenarios that have happened before and you have to do with the best you have

[Ironcat]

You could be a very good captain, but be having board/manager issues (Windies), not have your best XI (selectors), have a weak team, etc

I'm not saying that wasn't or is true for Misbah, just giving you scenarios that have happened before and you have to do with the best you have
Before Taylor, Vettori was the captain, and their team was doing pretty well in ODIs. Taylor took over and the graph went down. Nothing to do with selectors, etc.

Sammy inherited the same issues as Misbah did. Before Sammy, Gayle was the ODI captain and had a similarly miserable record.

[iZeeshan]

Before Taylor, Vettori was the captain, and their team was doing pretty well in ODIs. Taylor took over and the graph went down. Nothing to do with selectors, etc.

Sammy inherited the same issues as Misbah did. Before Sammy, Gayle was the ODI captain and had a similarly miserable record.

I don't know what the history is, nor am I agreeing or disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that a W/L ratio wouldn't tell you all that.

It doesn't explicate team changes, management changes, and other issues. And they do make a difference.

Also I'm pretty sure Misbah inherited a solid ODI team (coming off WC semi finals) while Sammy has been dealing with a broken team and missing players for a while now along with severe board issues.

[Ironcat]

I don't know what the history is, nor am I agreeing or disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that a W/L ratio wouldn't tell you all that.

It doesn't explicate team changes, management changes, and other issues. And they do make a difference.

Also I'm pretty sure Misbah inherited a solid ODI team (coming off WC semi finals) while Sammy has been dealing with a broken team and missing players for a while now along with severe board issues.
Unless you can provide some evidence of those other things affecting the records one way or the other, it's irrelevant.

Misbah inherited an ODI team that had a 0.93 W/L at its best and was kicked out of semi finals. One whose captain had just been sacked. Far from solid. A pretty average team.

[iZeeshan]

Unless you can provide some evidence of those other things affecting the records one way or the other, it's irrelevant.

Misbah inherited an ODI team that had a 0.93 W/L at its best and was kicked out of semi finals. One whose captain had just been sacked. Far from solid. A pretty average team.

Logic is beneath you now? You're telling me weak teams being selected, missing your best players, and changes in management don't effect team performance?

And LOL we hadn't made it past group stages in the past two world cups, and you're calling it an average team. Regardless, Misbah did not improve upon the W/L average. The number of matches played should make no difference - if the team has a certain record, a good captain keeps it up and improves it, not makes it worse. We're talking about the TEAM here, not Misbah vs Afridi.

[Ironcat]

Logic is beneath you now? You're telling me weak teams being selected, missing your best players, and changes in management don't effect team performance?
So which of the above happened to Taylor? And where is the evidence that under Gayle (when those issues weren't there), WI were beating the world with their eyes closed?

Regardless, Misbah did not improve upon the W/L average. The number of matches played should make no difference - if the team has a certain record, a good captain keeps it up and improves it, not makes it worse.
This beats InzyQS's post above in terms of 'rubbish-ness'.

Did Imran Khan start winning world cups or beating WI the moment he became the captain?

Did MS Dhoni do so in ODIs?

How about Smith? Strauss?

All of them inherited teams that weren't world champions or world number ones but OVER TIME they improved those teams.

We're talking about the TEAM here, not Misbah vs Afridi.
Then, I guess, captain doesn't make any difference, does he now?

[iZeeshan]

So which of the above happened to Taylor? And where is the evidence that under Gayle (when those issues weren't there), WI were beating the world with their eyes closed?

Man I already told you I don't know history. I'm just saying, you can't possibly argue that those things don't have an effect! This isn't situation-specific.

This beats InzyQS's post above in terms of 'rubbish-ness'.

Did Imran Khan start winning world cups or beating WI the moment he became the captain?

Did MS Dhoni do so in ODIs?

How about Smith? Strauss?

All of them inherited teams that weren't world champions or world number ones but OVER TIME they improved those teams.


Fair enough but I'm not sure why the team has to get dramatically worse. But okay, we'll see what happens in the Australia series.

Then, I guess, captain doesn't make any difference, does he now?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. I agreed with you in the beginning and you turned into a mindless argument.

You told me Taylor/Sammy had worse records and I said I agree that they could hold the title.

But it was my opinion that they were more skilled and had just been under tougher conditions.

I always forget I shouldn't bother arguing with you, logic doesn't hold any value in your eyes, nor does watching the game. It's only numbers and I'm sorry but that just won't cut it for me, no matter who the player is.

Let's move on and not derail the thread.

[Space Cat]

Before Taylor, Vettori was the captain, and their team was doing pretty well in ODIs. Taylor took over and the graph went down. Nothing to do with selectors, etc.

Sammy inherited the same issues as Misbah did. Before Sammy, Gayle was the ODI captain and had a similarly miserable record.

The rot had set in long before Taylor took over the captaincy. Hes hardly going to turn it around in half a year.

[cricketworm]

Not sure why. You score 90% on the exam, but will it be alright to judge you based on what you got wrong?

When you give an exam there is only one factor = you. You control your own exam, one person. When you are the captain of the side, there are 10 other factors.

When captaincy is evaluated, I would rather do analysis of on field decision captain made that changed the final result of the match not just the final result of the match. (which what they usually discuss in any professional post match meeting) Captain is not the only factor that is the cause of final result.

[Ironcat]

When you give an exam there is only one factor = you. You control your own exam, one person. When you are the captain of the side, there are 10 other factors.

When captaincy is evaluated, I would rather do analysis of on field decision captain made that changed the final result of the match not just the final result of the match. (which what they usually discuss in any professional post match meeting) Captain is not the only factor that is the cause of final result.
Cuts both ways. That mistake you are referring to can also be a result of those 10 other factors, or those 10 other factors can easily make up for that one mistake.

[cricketworm]

Cuts both ways. That mistake you are referring to can also be a result of those 10 other factors, or those 10 other factors can easily make up for that one mistake.

That's why you have to evaluate captaincy with open mind/flexibility and be selective to certain points for praise or criticism, lone final result doesn't cut it.

[Ironcat]

That's why you have to evaluate captaincy with open mind/flexibility and be selective to certain points for praise or criticism, lone final result doesn't cut it.
Whatever you criteria (whether it's W/L or a set of captaincy decisions), it is unreasonable to focus on one or two mistakes. Like I said, a 90% score on a test where the average is much lower is praiseworthy. Only an utterly negative rubric would choose to focus on the mistakes only.