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View Full Version : O and A Levels in Pakistan - should we scrap Matric/Inter ?


MIG
15th May 2006, 05:35
Would that not considerably improve our current educational system ? Imagine ALL our students competing against other children round the world ? Would also remove the elitist O/A Level type mentality among richer folk in Pak who can afford these schools.

This would ofcourse mean teachers would need to be of higher caliber ( assuming you agree that O/A Levels are superior to our current system) but done in a phased manner, say over next 10 years or so, we could be producing individuals from our schools who could take on the global marketplace.

The other alternative is to reform current system and make it better but just a thought....

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:36
don't think so much migsy, the effects of 'does the pronounciation of name' are still visible

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:37
that aside,

difficult to do so. a very wide gulf between the two. lets make the inter one more common and then move on to stage two if needs be. you also forget the cost issue there..

MIG
15th May 2006, 05:38
don't think so much migsy, the effects of 'does the pronounciation of name' are still visible

salla.....

Officer Barbrady
15th May 2006, 05:39
O and A's are certainly better.

A more practical approach would be to revise the current metric system using O/A/other material. (Cambridge exams are to expensive otherwise)

There are really few teachers in Pakistan who can teach this stuff. It would require a massive revamp involving everything. We would also need the books to go with it all.

Good idea but I don't see it happening.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:39
salla.....

chubbay!

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:40
O and A's are certainly better.

A more practical approach would be to revise the current metric system using O/A/other material. (Cambridge exams are to expensive otherwise)

There are really few teachers in Pakistan who can teach this stuff. It would require a massive revamp involving everything. We would also need the books to go with it all.

Good idea but I don't see it happening.


good idea only about 75-100 yrs in the future. rt now making education more common is a bigger concern.

MIG
15th May 2006, 05:41
Ok, pleasanteries aside....

Why should O/A levels be good for people who can afford it and not good for others who cant ? Surely, if this is a good system, Pak should adopt it for ALL its population ?

Officer Barbrady
15th May 2006, 05:41
good idea only about 75-100 yrs in the future. rt now making education more common is a bigger concern.

Yes that's a decent timeframe.

Though they could work on slowly improving the curriculum.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:43
mig who is going to pay for the costs of doing o/a ?
plus you have to realise a lot of govt schools are free, difficult to implement that

Officer Barbrady
15th May 2006, 05:46
Ok, pleasanteries aside....

Why should O/A levels be good for people who can afford it and not good for others who cant ? Surely, if this is a good system, Pak should adopt it for ALL its population ?

First off, in order to prepare students you've got to have teachers.

We don't have such teachers.

We need 8th graders who are prepared enough to be able to deal with Os/As. At the moment they are still learning to read and thus can't possibly make the jump. We thus start a revamp from grade 1 and work ourselves up.

And before we go into this we need to widen the scope of our present system which doesn't even cover half the population (or teachers) at the moment.

For all that we need the funds and education has never been and won't be near the top of priority lists.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:47
I also don't think we have to emulate o/a level curriculum per se. Improvement/revision can be done without holding o/a as a standard perhaps.

Officer Barbrady
15th May 2006, 05:49
I also don't think we have to emulate o/a level curriculum per se. Improvement/revision can be done without holding o/a as a standard perhaps.

I'd fear they'd come up with something worse than what we have at present. O/A throw in other high school material could be a safe starting point. We do need to tune things to our needs.

zaf1986
15th May 2006, 05:50
Good idea in theory but the practical limitations have already been discussed by Marooned and commay.

Education does need reform in Pakistan, but we are too busy spending money on the military to care...

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:51
you have to live in pak a bit to realise why this is not possible. like i said we're atleast 75-100 yrs away from that.

I'm from matric/inter stream and dare I say it, I don't think it was too bad, waisay.

zaf1986
15th May 2006, 05:54
Its not about good or bad, its about being recognised on an international standard. We may not like standarising our system with firangis, but its gotta be done in our increasingly "globalised" world...

Officer Barbrady
15th May 2006, 05:55
you have to live in pak a bit to realise why this is not possible. like i said we're atleast 75-100 yrs away from that.

I'm from matric/inter stream and dare I say it, I don't think it was too bad, waisay.

I lived there most of my life. I was comparing O/A with other systems thought you meant O/A wasn't a benchmark. I agree it cannot be used in Pak at this point in time.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 05:57
I don't know if there should be a standardised thing for curriculum. so long as it covers the basics requireements for that level, it should be valid, no?

Officer Barbrady
15th May 2006, 06:02
It's easier to implement (text books and all, also perhaps have teacher training programs etc to work with what we have)at least for now.

jusarrived
15th May 2006, 06:19
if someone cud brief me ,wat O/A levels mean?

zaf1986
15th May 2006, 06:21
O Levels is the old name for what we call GCSEs in England. (General Certificate of Secondary Education). Usually sat at age 15/16.

A - Levels are the level up, and are the "currency" for university entrance (again in England). Usually sat at age 17/18.

MIG
15th May 2006, 06:29
We need radical reform - right now I compare kids from the local Pak school and the Indian school and their is miles of difference ( specifically in English ) - is it a wonder that India is the center of so much commercial activity ?

zaf1986
15th May 2006, 06:30
They have invested in their education - we haven't.

Its all about rokra or should I say fuloos, MIG

jusarrived
15th May 2006, 06:34
O Levels is the old name for what we call GCSEs in England. (General Certificate of Secondary Education). Usually sat at age 15/16.

A - Levels are the level up, and are the "currency" for university entrance (again in England). Usually sat at age 17/18.


thnx ,

so I bellive the suggestion is to follow the same cirriculam in pakistan too?

jusarrived
15th May 2006, 06:38
They have invested in their education - we haven't.

Its all about rokra or should I say fuloos, MIG


If u exclude the IIM's N IIT's the govt hasnt done much for education in india....there is a long way to go before we reach satisfactory levels in primary education....the difference is probably the affordable private schooling in India!

Officer Barbrady
15th May 2006, 06:49
We need radical reform - right now I compare kids from the local Pak school and the Indian school and their is miles of difference ( specifically in English ) - is it a wonder that India is the center of so much commercial activity ?

Spoken english isn't exactly what curriculum changes are about.

UJ
15th May 2006, 06:53
There is no doubt that the education systems needs major changes and improvements if Pakistani children are to get the best quality education that is possible.

O/A levels is a possibility but not quite yet. First we need to ensure that we can get as many children going to schools in Pakistan. If Pakistan does implement this new system in the future, it will reap the benefits of higher investments and improvements in economic well being.

tahaqureshi
15th May 2006, 06:59
Does any country yet fully implement the O/A level system oiutside of the UK?

nafajafam
15th May 2006, 07:01
Better step for now would be to improvise the current system and invest more on education, so to make it recognisable by other education systems. dont see a need to standardise. High schools teach the basics and little more in science, computers, business etc. Would be better to improve the quality in the current system.

Also a lot of the schools in the smaller towns cannot afford A/O level expenses. The cirriculum is in English hence making it more difficult for these students. My cousins have learnt to read English in the 7th/8th grade and use the same books from 10-15 years ago. There hasn't been much progress in the current way of teaching all these years.

Like the others have mentioned, it would be better to improve the current education standards. India has improved it's education, but the board is still the same.

nafajafam
15th May 2006, 07:03
Does any country yet fully implement the O/A level system oiutside of the UK?

Dubai. Majority of Gulf i think. There is a divide though. The government schools are in Arabic and have their own system. Pakistani and Indian school their own. Majority of the schools are in British system though.

Nauman
15th May 2006, 07:52
MIG how can a common man afford O and A levels in Pakistan, O levels alone must have cost me around 200,000 Rupees for two years of classes at school plus 20,000 for 8 papers I gave. Similarly A levels cost me around 250,000 Rupees for two years of classes at school plus 25,000 for 3 papers I gave.

MIG
15th May 2006, 09:43
Nauman - this is where the Govt comes in and creates a Pak ( approved) version of these exams or covers that cose somehow.

z10
15th May 2006, 10:46
problem with this is that by the time Pakistan implement an O/A level system, Britain itself would have moved onto a new system. Then what will Pakistan do?

There is talk in Britain of a complete revamp of the system, it would be prudent to wait for the change and follow that rather than the current system.

sneekysneeky
15th May 2006, 12:55
I'm from matric/inter stream and dare I say it, I don't think it was too bad, waisay.
not bad :O ... aray yar i hated learning Sindhi... matric is the only reason i wanted to move to america... i wouldve loved to do O/A level system but my mom wanted me to go to a Shia school and it only had matric/inter at that time :(

did you have to learn Sindhi?

Schiller
15th May 2006, 13:42
not bad :O ... aray yar i hated learning Sindhi... matric is the only reason i wanted to move to america... i wouldve loved to do O/A level system but my mom wanted me to go to a Shia school and it only had matric/inter at that time :(

did you have to learn Sindhi?


oh yes learnt sindhi indeed :91:

i never minded it much waisay, i was part of the problem :91:

robosapien
15th May 2006, 13:57
Nauman - this is where the Govt comes in and creates a Pak ( approved) version of these exams or covers that cose somehow.

although i have done inter in pak with flying colors but i think that matric/inter system major changes with more focus on maths and other science subjects. right now it's based on cramming. o/a levels is too expensive for paks but a good model to follow.

i've seen that our students with inter have lot of problems when seeking higher education abroad as their maths is not as strong as is required. atleast one simple thing that govt can do is to improve the standard of maths at matric and inter level and cut off load of urdu/english language studies.

i've seen that students from remote areas simply cannot compete with students in khi/lhr/isb. there's a hell of difference in aproach between a student coming from dg khan or rajanpur (or interior sindh) as compared to a student from beaconhouse etc, which eventually affects their psychology and creates a sense of deprivation in them.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 14:07
although i have done inter in pak with flying colors but i think that matric/inter system major changes with more focus on maths and other science subjects. right now it's based on cramming. o/a levels is too expensive for paks but a good model to follow.

i've seen that our students with inter have lot of problems when seeking higher education abroad as their maths is not as strong as is required. atleast one simple thing that govt can do is to improve the standard of maths at matric and inter level and cut off load of urdu/english language studies.

i've seen that students from remote areas simply cannot compete with students in khi/lhr/isb. there's a hell of difference in aproach between a student coming from dg khan or rajanpur (or interior sindh) as compared to a student from beaconhouse etc, which eventually affects their psychology and creates a sense of deprivation in them.

the specimen that we have seen yar robo so far could not have been improved by o or a levels. you think Q would have done any better? :91: kasaai bhootni ka

On the other hand two of the more knowledgeable posters here are both Inter pass ;)

Secondly, B was an A level student, fat lot of good that did.

robosapien
15th May 2006, 14:09
i'm talking in general. anomalies r there :))

Schiller
15th May 2006, 14:09
Mr. Q

robosapien
15th May 2006, 14:12
i agree on that. a common observation is that students who have done oa levels from pak were useless ppl. knew nothing abt anything!

Schiller
15th May 2006, 14:13
i'm talking in general. anomalies r there :))

:91: kuch ziyada hai anomaly hai if you ask me.

i do think that the english curriculum can certainly be improved along with muut lay pakistan and maths. not sure about other ones.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 14:14
i agree on that. a common observation is that students who have done oa levels from pak were useless ppl. knew nothing abt anything!


they mostly are, other than speaking in a Revloned accent, I have yet to see them speak on anything worthwhile even in pak. Their math curriculum is definitely something to look at.

MIG
15th May 2006, 14:14
People who have done O/A levels from Pak generally tend to be those who can afford to study outside Pak in decent universities. Yes there are exceptions but I would say that most kids who do O/A levels in Pak DONT go to Pak unis.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 14:15
People who have done O/A levels from Pak generally tend to be those who can afford to study outside Pak in decent universities. Yes there are exceptions but I would say that most kids who do O/A levels in Pak DONT go to Pak unis.


Exactly - as a chinese would say.

robosapien
15th May 2006, 14:17
People who have done O/A levels from Pak generally tend to be those who can afford to study outside Pak in decent universities. Yes there are exceptions but I would say that most kids who do O/A levels in Pak DONT go to Pak unis.

yes, i'm talking abt unis in the 'first world'. my point is that curriculum is one thing and intelligence is another.

MIG
15th May 2006, 14:17
So Comma- you think that if rich kids only went thru Matric/Inter, you would still see a large number good enough to enter Western Unis ? and O/A levels has no difference ? Have you considered the standard of English among these students? Only a few study Keats.

Schiller
15th May 2006, 14:19
Odd as it sounds, if i had kids and was in Pak, id probably go the matric inter route.

as robo is metnioning there is a difference between curriculum and intelligence.
secondly as mehrommed mentioned, its not just about english you see. if you do want to focus on english, we cana treat it as a separate or a side topic?

also, everyone who does inter has to study - a thing of beauty is a joy forever

robosapien
15th May 2006, 14:21
So Comma- you think that if rich kids only went thru Matric/Inter, you would still see a large number good enough to enter Western Unis ? and O/A levels has no difference ? Have you considered the standard of English among these students? Only a few study Keats.

certainly o/a levels r better but i've seen that most of the students getting s&t scholarship to study abroad r average paks who have done inter. and to get s&t, one has to get good score in gre/gmat

MIG
15th May 2006, 14:23
But, Comma, then you would be going against the current trend in Pak ( as I understand it)

I suppose, there are exams such as SATs/GREs which are good equalizers between these 2 systems but looking at the corruption in our educational system, I would trust my kids future with the current British System ( as do a lot of expat Americans in Bahrain!)

Schiller
15th May 2006, 15:00
mig a lot of what kids do depends on them. if you go to a good Inter college in Pak, great chance you will do well.

Nauman
15th May 2006, 17:05
People who have done O/A levels from Pak generally tend to be those who can afford to study outside Pak in decent universities. Yes there are exceptions but I would say that most kids who do O/A levels in Pak DONT go to Pak unis.
May have been true 5 to 10 years from today but now days atleast 80 percent of students who do O/A levels from Pakistan stay in Pakistan, it is difficult to get into universities with O and A levels but most of my friends who went into engineering and medical universities (I myself who went into accounting) have found studies very easy because we are used to building up logics and understanding the crux of the matter rather then just cramming the whole thing up.