View Full Version : Did Pakistan miss a trick by not playing Kaneria in the ODIs?
PlanetPakistan
24th May 2006, 05:26
After following the recent games between IND and WI it seems to me that the wickets in the world cup will really help the spinners!
While Shoaib was injured i felt that Kaneria should have been given a chance instead of the other young medium pacers! It would have been nice for him to gain a bit of experience at the ODI level!
Well, it would not be a bad option but as Kaneria can't bat nor can field the selectors are reluctant to include him in an ODI squad.
mlegha1
24th May 2006, 07:17
Pakistan is definitly missing the trick by not playing a spinner period.People talk about how great our bowling attack was with Wasim,Waqar and shoaib but Saqi was the key Man back in the days.We need a spiner like him with a fast bowler agressive attitude and the variety to handle pressure. Mansoor Amjad is the only young and rising spinner that I see should be included in the team.He is a better fielder and can bat a bit too.Kaneria seems to do well when Batsmen take a bat seat and are defensive.Whenever player came out and played shots against him he has always crumbled.
safehands46
24th May 2006, 07:49
kaneria should be in the team he is wicket taker. All great odi teams have good spinner. Imran was the first to come up with playing with the leg spinner in odis. Its really sad we refuse to play him. I would play him in place of razzaq who is useless in both forms of batting and bowling. I would rather have an attacking spinner who is wicket taker than him. especially if shoaib isnt playing we need a match winner who can take a wicket at will.
deviously~fading~away
24th May 2006, 08:09
kaneria should be in the team he is wicket taker. All great odi teams have good spinner. Imran was the first to come up with playing with the leg spinner in odis. Its really sad we refuse to play him. I would play him in place of razzaq who is useless in both forms of batting and bowling. I would rather have an attacking spinner who is wicket taker than him. especially if shoaib isnt playing we need a match winner who can take a wicket at will.
Mate he cannot even hold a bat! And his fielding...lets not talk about that!
safehands46
24th May 2006, 08:26
Mate he cannot even hold a bat! And his fielding...lets not talk about that!
I am just saying without shoaib we have only two attacking bowlers. If you add kaneria he replaces shoaib as wicket taker. Yeah his fielding is atrocious, but we are able to hide many players so i dont really see it as problem. plus if you move kamran up the order you still have have afridi and him to anchor the lower order.
If the order is something like this batting wise there is alot batting
imran
shoaib
younis
inzi
yousuf
afridi
kamran at 7 rather than 8 most people would be happy
rana can bat here
asif
akhtar
kaneria
Disco_Lemonade
24th May 2006, 08:29
ya only problem is that he is not a good fielder... i dont mind his batting at 11... but he need to improve his fielding... coz we already have many unreliable fielders in the team.
Osman
24th May 2006, 08:31
Mr safehands46 ... razzaq has been a key player for us and you want to leave him out ???????? and that too for kaneria who offers nothing with the bat !!! Razzaq provides balance to the team.
safehands46
24th May 2006, 09:11
Mr safehands46 ... razzaq has been a key player for us and you want to leave him out ???????? and that too for kaneria who offers nothing with the bat !!! Razzaq provides balance to the team.
Razzaq is steady player. Until you adopt a aggressive approach defeating a team like the aussies will be extremely hard. by adding kaneria you have another agressive bowling option. As regard to the fielding razzaq isnt that great fielding wise either. The issue is whether you want a kamran akmal to be batting at 8 rather than 7. knowing that akmal has the potential to bat alot higher. If the fielding is an issue he shouldnt be in the test team. If he is as good a spinner as say mushtaq then cant he have an impact. Mushtaq in his prime was a attacking bowler.
Secondly you talk about balance, If you have youhana at 5 and akmal 7 is there a balance problem. Bowling wise you have three of the best odi bowlers in asif,rana,akhtar then add in kaneria its a pretty decent side one is playing. but with razzaq in the side afridi because the attacking spinner. THink about the options one would have with kaneria in the side. mediocrity versus speciality. You choose in the end specialist win matches. thats why SA never won, thats why the aussies are competitive.
in_cutter
24th May 2006, 09:48
kaneria should be in the team he is wicket taker. All great odi teams have good spinner. Imran was the first to come up with playing with the leg spinner in odis. Its really sad we refuse to play him. I would play him in place of razzaq who is useless in both forms of batting and bowling. I would rather have an attacking spinner who is wicket taker than him. especially if shoaib isnt playing we need a match winner who can take a wicket at will.
Maybe useless in Tests, but Razzaq is a fine ODI cricketer!
safehands46
24th May 2006, 09:55
Maybe useless in Tests, but Razzaq is a fine ODI cricketer!
By useless I mean he cant change the match. Kaneria is wicket taker he can win a match.
pakistani pride
24th May 2006, 12:22
:))) :))) :))) :)) :))
i hope your jokin Razzaq is 1 of the best odi players out there and would walk into any team i repeat into any team !
Tremendous odi player 2 have
Team Slayer
24th May 2006, 12:31
kaneria should be in the team he is wicket taker. All great odi teams have good spinner. Imran was the first to come up with playing with the leg spinner in odis. Its really sad we refuse to play him. I would play him in place of razzaq who is useless in both forms of batting and bowling. I would rather have an attacking spinner who is wicket taker than him. especially if shoaib isnt playing we need a match winner who can take a wicket at will.
we have a fantastic attacking legspinner, and his name is shahid afridi. check out his performances in SL and the last time he visited WI. mark my words, he will be a lethal weapon in the WC as a bowler.
razzi is a fine odi cricketer as well, and on sluggish pitches he is very hard to score off (MoM in first ODI of WI series, MoS in the SL series). so its nonsense to suggest that razzi should be sacked from odis.
danish is the worst pakistani fielder and a pathetic batsman, and he is not that good in odis that his bowling alone can win him a spot in the team. if you follow the tests, danish needs men round the bat to add pressure and you can't afford that luxury in odis. in fact, in odis, afridi is far better than danish.
as for wicket takers, what about rana (our best odi bowler) and asif? those two are proven wicket takers in odis (unlike danish).
so clearly, there is no need for danish in odis at all as we have wicket takers (rana, asif) and a fine legspinner (afridi) in the team already.
we have a fantastic attacking legspinner, and his name is shahid afridi. check out his performances in SL and the last time he visited WI. mark my words, he will be a lethal weapon in the WC as a bowler.
razzi is a fine odi cricketer as well, and on sluggish pitches he is very hard to score off (MoM in first ODI of WI series, MoS in the SL series). so its nonsense to suggest that razzi should be sacked from odis.
danish is the worst pakistani fielder and a pathetic batsman, and he is not that good in odis that his bowling alone can win him a spot in the team. if you follow the tests, danish needs men round the bat to add pressure and you can't afford that luxury in odis. in fact, in odis, afridi is far better than danish.
as for wicket takers, what about rana (our best odi bowler) and asif? those two are proven wicket takers in odis (unlike danish).
so clearly, there is no need for danish in odis at all as we have wicket takers (rana, asif) and a fine legspinner (afridi) in the team already.
Agree.
Afridi has proven his worth as a leg spinner, don't really need another legspinner.
Kaneria is perfect for test matches.
Nauman
24th May 2006, 14:02
Kaneria is over rated as a test bowler too, I have never seen the guy bowling well in first innings and if and when he takes wickets he does so after conceeding 200 runs.
These days every bowler should be able to bat and make some runs, Kaneria can't do that and his fielding is atrocious. I don't think we're really missing him as we have Afridi who has improved immensly on his bowling of late. If only we could have the world class Saqlain of old.
tahaqureshi
24th May 2006, 14:49
We also have Shoaib Malik's useful offspinners..and if Hafeez gets going by the time the WC comes, he also has a vey useful off spinner..
I don't see the need for a specialist spinner in ODI's at the expense of batting and fielding..as they say, catches win matches!
prepare
24th May 2006, 15:55
Afridi And Shoaib Malik Can Provide 20 Overs Of Quality Spin
They Can Also Bat (infact Malik Would Probabaly Be In The Team As Our Best Odi Batsmen I Think) And Not Many Other Teams Can Match These 2 For Batting, Bowling And Fielding Combined
akram_rejuvinated
24th May 2006, 16:49
I know i will make enemies out of half of you by saying this, but if you must make an honest man walk the plank for his ideas, so be it. So here goes: Afridi, Razzaq are both individuals that ought to not be in the ODI team simultaneously. Pakistan has lately been playing a plethora of all rounders, and instead of forcing them to compete against each other, and hence improve their game, Pakistan plays all of them. Shoaib Malik, well his bowling without the doosra is not very incisive but he is second to probably only Inzi with the bat, and hence deserves his spot. Whereas Razzaq's military medium is merely helping pakistan bowl 10 odd overs from their quota of 50 and his batting is effective in only shades. Infact, his best performances came when he was batting higher up the order, and a result, forcing guys like Inzi, Yousuf, and Younis to bat at 4,5,6. Younis is wasted if he is forced to bat that lower down the order. For instance, examine the record of Yuvraj. He averaged a mere 30 when batting at 5 or 6, but now that he comes at 3 or 4, he is averaging over 60 in the last 30 ODIs.
Afridi's bowling has improved a great deal, but his batting has yet to do justice to his talent. Hence, thats two all rounders who are playing in the team, eventually resulting in a team with 6 or even 7 bowlers, but only 3 specialist batsmen and the keeper. It does not make sense to play so many allrounders. Instead, do what South Africa did. Instead of sporting a team of allrounders, every player excelled in his primary task for which he was in the team, but when asked to deliever, they could reach within and produce a skillful allround perfromance. For instance, Pollock back in the days and to an extent today too was the strike bowler for SA by Donald's side. However, when circumstances proved that he had to perform with the bat, he did so admirably.
Afridi must either secure his place as a bowler, and that would not be easy as he is in direct competition with Kaneria. Or maybe he should try to establish himself as a batsman first as Malik has acheived. playing both allrounders: Afridi and Razzaq is foolhardy.
Muyazzim Khan
24th May 2006, 17:23
No! Simple, he is a one trick pony in the ODI format, a liability in the field a joke with the bat.
Muyazzim Khan
24th May 2006, 17:25
Kaneria is over rated as a test bowler too, I have never seen the guy bowling well in first innings and if and when he takes wickets he does so after conceeding 200 runs.
I concur. If we had a better option he would not be in the side. He does enough to merit a place in the side as he has gained the experience but he will never be a stand alone match winner like a Murali or Warne.
kablooee87
24th May 2006, 17:27
forget all the side things about his batting and fielding. His style of bowling is not condusive to ODI cricket. Simple as that.
Noman
24th May 2006, 17:35
I know i will make enemies out of half of you by saying this, but if you must make an honest man walk the plank for his ideas, so be it. So here goes: Afridi, Razzaq are both individuals that ought to not be in the ODI team simultaneously. Pakistan has lately been playing a plethora of all rounders, and instead of forcing them to compete against each other, and hence improve their game, Pakistan plays all of them. Shoaib Malik, well his bowling without the doosra is not very incisive but he is second to probably only Inzi with the bat, and hence deserves his spot. Whereas Razzaq's military medium is merely helping pakistan bowl 10 odd overs from their quota of 50 and his batting is effective in only shades. Infact, his best performances came when he was batting higher up the order, and a result, forcing guys like Inzi, Yousuf, and Younis to bat at 4,5,6. Younis is wasted if he is forced to bat that lower down the order. For instance, examine the record of Yuvraj. He averaged a mere 30 when batting at 5 or 6, but now that he comes at 3 or 4, he is averaging over 60 in the last 30 ODIs.
Afridi's bowling has improved a great deal, but his batting has yet to do justice to his talent. Hence, thats two all rounders who are playing in the team, eventually resulting in a team with 6 or even 7 bowlers, but only 3 specialist batsmen and the keeper. It does not make sense to play so many allrounders. Instead, do what South Africa did. Instead of sporting a team of allrounders, every player excelled in his primary task for which he was in the team, but when asked to deliever, they could reach within and produce a skillful allround perfromance. For instance, Pollock back in the days and to an extent today too was the strike bowler for SA by Donald's side. However, when circumstances proved that he had to perform with the bat, he did so admirably.
Afridi must either secure his place as a bowler, and that would not be easy as he is in direct competition with Kaneria. Or maybe he should try to establish himself as a batsman first as Malik has acheived. playing both allrounders: Afridi and Razzaq is foolhardy.
I agree with most of your point..... BUT wE dont have world class specialist...
Kaneria have been given many chances in odi cricket, and he is not the bowler who have the control when he gets phanitay then he has no control . In odi cricket we have a problem ,that we have no bowler who can contain runs, that was the reason Inzamam wanted Arshad Khan to play odi cricket..
Afridi is inconsistent.. their were a period were he was bowling well and very consistent.. But he is back to his old best... Abdul Razzaq is not the same bowler he was in Wasim days... He can bowl some good spell, but he has lost it... his Run up is a big factor.. , Muhammad Muhammad,, and Rana we have who are good odi bowlers.... Shaoib in odi just need to try to find the rhythm back he once had in odi..
SHoaib
Asif,
Rana
Razzaq
Afridi
Malik...
Well that is not a bad attack in odi matches... im sure we can win the wv with this bowling attack!!
His_Excellence_
24th May 2006, 18:40
Even though I'd love to see Danis taking wickets for us in ODIs as he does in Tests, you can't ignore the fact that he's a liability with the bat and in the field. And every successful ODI team requires a tail that can wag when required and fielders who can save the maximum amount of runs. For example, the Indian team has Ramesh powar, a genuine offspinner, who can bat to some extent and field superbly.
As much as the specialist believers would hate to admit, ODIs have become a game of bits and pieces players. You don't have to be a specialist bowler/batsman today to be a successful ODI player. As long as you can perform with both bat and ball to a decent extent or even with just the bat and be able to save your team a decent amount of runs with good fielding efforts...you go a long way.
Pakistans ODI team looks set at the moment. We have decent opening options if not the best, we have good bowlers and 3 world class all rounders, two of whom have the ability to win a game for Pakistan with bat/ball and are amazing in the field. Afridi and Malik both give us bowlers who're attacking in nature and look to take wickets. So, we don't really need Danish in the ODI team as of yet. He's doing a good enough job for us in Test cricket..let's leave him at that.
He may POTENTIALLY be an asset with the ball - but he is a MASSIVE liability with the bat - and even worse in the field.
Keep Kanerai well away from the ODI squad...
Nauman
25th May 2006, 02:27
I concur. If we had a better option he would not be in the side. He does enough to merit a place in the side as he has gained the experience but he will never be a stand alone match winner like a Murali or Warne.
I agree with you but that doesnt change the fact that he is over rated and talks a bit too much, he makes big claims but rarely fullfill them, should let his bowling do the talking rather then his big mouth.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.