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Schiller
12th July 2006, 19:54
A question then

lets take the mumbai bombings as an example. I personally don't feel any sadness whatsoever. completely indifferent to it. should a person in my shoes still offer condolences?

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 19:56
do you feel sorry for the relatives of the dead?

Schiller
12th July 2006, 19:56
not really, no.
I feel bad for them but thats about it, no sadness or anything. life is stern

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 19:58
then no...

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:02
fair enough, so i wonder if half of all condolences is hypocrisy?

Easa
12th July 2006, 20:05
Better to be nice, I would think.

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:06
better to lie, resort to hypocrisy than be honest. i understand.

Easa
12th July 2006, 20:07
But I'm not lying, I actually do feel sorry for the relatives of the victims.

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:07
if you do that is fine, my question then is, how many of us actually feel bad? do we really feel bad cause its innate or cause we think we should and thus we do?

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 20:08
fair enough, so i wonder if half of all condolences is hypocrisy?
not only condolences mubarakbaads also... eg. would you be happy at the birth of a child? not really but youd still congratulate em...

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:09
not only condolences mubarakbaads also... eg. would you be happy at the birth of a child? not really but youd still congratulate em...

I don't. i just say well that nice for you i would think or words to that effect. mostly i ask, oh really? boy or a girl? then how much did it weigh and by the time, im done, congrats are not needed.

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 20:09
if you do that is fine, my question then is, how many of us actually feel bad? do we really feel bad cause its innate or cause we think we should and thus we do?
the only time i would really feel bad is when someone i know is involved...

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:10
so would you still offer conds from now on?

mulan
12th July 2006, 20:10
It's a "nice" thing. It's the right thing to say. Therefore, perhaps you're right, about half of such sentiments being "hypocritical".

But for me, not. I am a compassionate person, so I always "feel" with anyone who suffers. Even if I don't know them personally. It's a curse.

For me what's hypocritical, is when there's a loss and someone says: "please let me know if there's anything I can do"... Please! Just go ahead and do something!

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 20:10
I don't. i just say well that nice for you i would think or words to that effect. mostly i ask, oh really? boy or a girl? then how much did it weigh and by the time, im done, congrats are not needed.
haha... kya admi hai yar tu... :))

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 20:11
so would you still offer conds from now on?
sure why not :D

samisback
12th July 2006, 20:12
it was a sad thing which took place, loss of any life , be it muslim or non-muslim is tragic.

truth be told i did not feel anything, reason behind it was that i knew they were going to play the blame game, which they did.....i mean here are we offering our condolences & there are they blaming us .

the only thing i felt was for the people in india , Minority often get's a bad look , with that a few attack's are to be followed as well , actually this is happening all over the world not just india.

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:12
It's a "nice" thing. It's the right thing to say. Therefore, perhaps you're right, about half of such sentiments being "hypocritical".

But for me, not. I am a compassionate person, so I always "feel" with anyone who suffers. Even if I don't know them personally. It's a curse.

For me what's hypocritical, is when there's a loss and someone says: "please let me know if there's anything I can do"... Please! Just go ahead and do something!

half of our sympathies are hypocrisy verbalised. nice, nice.

why are you compassionate, my love?

well i always say can i do something cause i want them to tell me, i don't want to start doing thigs on my own, what if it is not what they want, no?

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:13
sure why not :D
so you're fine with being a lying,squeaky weasel? :91:

samisback
12th July 2006, 20:13
do i sound hypcritical from the above post :O

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:13
it was a sad thing which took place, loss of any life , be it muslim or non-muslim is tragic.

truth be told i did not feel anything, reason behind it was that i knew they were going to play the blame game, which they did.....i mean here are we offering our condolences & there are they blaming us .

the only thing i felt was for the people in india , Minority often get's a bad look , with that a few attack's are to be followed as well , actually this is happening all over the world not just india.

why is loss of life tragic? whats tragic about it?

Schiller
12th July 2006, 20:13
do i sound hypcritical from the above post :O

umm yes

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 20:16
so you're fine with being a lying,squeaky weasel? :91:
:)) actually ive never offered condolences to ppl i dont know... online its different...

samisback
12th July 2006, 20:19
why is loss of life tragic? whats tragic about it?
LIFE............for some it may not be tragic , since they don't really value it as it should be , in short, life is a gift and when such event's occur , it's not a certain age of people who are killed, it's basically everyone, Babies, children,old men etc , imagine a teenager dieing in the very event who was the only child of his old parent's..........i mean how can that not be tragic ?:10:

mulan
12th July 2006, 20:19
half of our sympathies are hypocrisy verbalised. nice, nice.

why are you compassionate, my love?
well i always say can i do something cause i want them to tell me, i don't want to start doing thigs on my own, what if it is not what they want, no? Why? Hmmm...I blame my grandma. Ever since I can remember she was a compassionate person and I loved her a great deal. I guess I just have more love to share than you think (the other thread :) )..

I think people should offer "suggestions"...Like: Do you need to be taken anywhere, can I drive you? Can I go and buy your groceries? Shall I cook for you too?

Has
12th July 2006, 20:20
Be hypocritical and be nice in a situation like this, no need to make a big deal, either dont say nothing or just say "the right things", simple really.

sneekysneeky
12th July 2006, 20:22
LIFE............for some it may not be tragic , since they don't really value it as it should be , in short, life is a gift and when such event's occur , it's not a certain age of people who are killed, it's basically everyone, Babies, children,old men etc , imagine a teenager dieing in the very event who was the only child of his old parent's..........i mean how can that not be tragic ?:10:
its tragic but it happens everyday so you get used to it...

samisback
12th July 2006, 20:23
its tragic but it happens everyday so you get used to it...
oh well i am a nice person, thats how i am ;)

the Great Khan
12th July 2006, 21:21
as the Prophet PBUH said if you dont have anything good to say, dont say anything.

salaam

Civil
12th July 2006, 21:24
treat others as you wish to be treated

If you want to be treated hypocritically then be hypocritical, if you want to be treated honestly by them then be honest to them.

DM
12th July 2006, 22:58
A question then

lets take the mumbai bombings as an example. I personally don't feel any sadness whatsoever. completely indifferent to it. should a person in my shoes still offer condolences?
I think yes. We know, rationally, that what happened was awful. I don't believe one can hinge such a decision that entails use of tact and sensitivity on our fickle emotion which aren't always held in the reigns of, nor are accountable to, reason and sensibility. I mean our emotions may be incongruent for all sorts of reasons, or they can become confounded by an infinite number of factors.

lahori
12th July 2006, 22:59
I think condemnation is what is required in this case.

cinderella
12th July 2006, 23:03
I detest hypocrisy and lying in any form, can't stand liars or hypocrites.

Hash
12th July 2006, 23:08
I detest hypocrisy and lying in any form, can't stand liars or hypocrites.

My auntie got me a multi coloured shirt. I hate it and will never wear it. Do you hate me for telling her it is very nice?

cinderella
12th July 2006, 23:13
My auntie got me a multi coloured shirt. I hate it and will never wear it. Do you hate me for telling her it is very nice?

Just tell her " thank you" and smile :29: I hope she gets you one of those every year now on your b-day, it's 'nice'

I used to be brutally honest ....a neighbor once made a cake and I told her it tasted like vaccuum cleaner fuzz....my sister once said her jeans had shrunk and I informed her no...her butt got bigger....it was like a disorder, couldn't lie. I have become 'diplomatic' over the years, being nice and sweet is such a pain.

Hash
12th July 2006, 23:22
Just tell her " thank you" and smile :29: I hope she gets you one of those every year now on your b-day, it's 'nice'

I used to be brutally honest ....a neighbor once made a cake and I told her it tasted like vaccuum cleaner fuzz....my sister once said her jeans had shrunk and I informed her no...her butt got bigger....it was like a disorder, couldn't lie. I have become 'diplomatic' over the years, being nice and sweet is such a pain.

:)) No please....once is enough. Not every year!

I am honest most of the time and the only time I lie is out of respect. If I care about someones feelings and if I know they will probably feel hurt with the truth (as in the case with this shirt....when she specifically asked me what I thought of it) then what is wrong with telling a harmless fib?

Schiller
12th July 2006, 23:36
I think yes. We know, rationally, that what happened was awful. I don't believe one can hinge such a decision that entails use of tact and sensitivity on our fickle emotion which aren't always held in the reigns of, nor are accountable to, reason and sensibility. I mean our emotions may be incongruent for all sorts of reasons, or they can become confounded by an infinite number of factors.

a counter-point if I may, the recipient will most likely perceive it as an emotional response, not a rational one. thus the q.

His_Excellence_
13th July 2006, 00:13
I'd rather just be honest. And no, I do not sympathise or try to relate to something I can't or don't feel for truly.

Nauman
13th July 2006, 00:53
It is important to be politically correct at times.

DM
13th July 2006, 04:59
a counter-point if I may, the recipient will most likely perceive it as an emotional response, not a rational one. thus the q.My implication above is that our intended end effect of conveying sympathy for the victims does not necessarily have to be congruent with whatever our internal feelings happen to be (their being fickle and subject to many external factors). It is the right thing to do.

I believe a number of people are giving immaterial responses because of the mistaken dichotomy in the question - ie 'hypocrisy', with its closely-bounded negative stigma, and being honest are not necessarily mutually exclusive, for example in this case - a situation such as conveying socially appropriate sympathy despite not perceiving it truly.

A relevant example that should hopefully illustrate the necessary compromise: If a friend of my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and at that very time I've been prey to other strongly confounding factors to my emotion - eg I've had difficulties at work, or even something minor but i perceive to be a major irritation, it's not beyond reason that I may not in my particular state of mind care for the terrible news. Now if I were to use 'brutal honesty' here and let my current emotion dictate my expressions, my response will be socially untactful and inconsiderate.

And if I were to offer my sympathy despite not actually feeling it, then yes, this falls within the definition of hypocrisy. However it's certainly not a negative act.

Schiller
13th July 2006, 06:16
to further this (and you know I like fencing with my beloved trotsky),

take these unknown deaths example. negative hypocrisy as far as I am concerned cause work or no work, i really wouldn't care either ways. if a friend is close to me, then work or no work, i would care and I have. on the other hand, a friend's father passed away suddenly from cancer, i could feel nothing and all i told him was that il help out in anyway that I can and i did, never gave condolences and he knows why i didn't. There indeed is positive hypocrisy but by and large in such cases, stranger's deaths et al, it is negative one, i feel. I think its bad when i tell the other person, i don't say i do know its a bad thing to have happened to you rather that i feel and in a way empathise with your loss, which is a lot of times, just inaccurate.

samisback
13th July 2006, 06:24
off the topic a wee bit, in my opinion you can not be that much successful in life , if AT TIME'S dont use the hypocritical option .

Schiller
13th July 2006, 06:25
That I agree with. The world asks for hypocrisy, it begs for it.

samisback
13th July 2006, 06:29
That I agree with. The world asks for hypocrisy, it begs for it.
indeed it does, sadly.

and hypocrisy is not everyone's forte , if you ask me.

Schiller
13th July 2006, 06:34
it is and i don't know if thats good or bad.

cinderella
13th July 2006, 06:37
It's necessary to have diplomatic skills, though I am generally 'nice' , there are times I don't give a bit and will say my piece of mind, regardless of the content.

HAFRIDI
13th July 2006, 06:40
Well to be honest i saw the thread here and didnt even opened it, but heard it in the car radio last night. If a mate was getting deep into it though, i'd probably go along with him/her.

Btw Comma, did u offer any condolences when the Earthquake in Pak occured?

samisback
13th July 2006, 06:41
It's necessary to have diplomatic skills, though I am generally 'nice' , there are times I don't give a bit and will say my piece of mind, regardless of the content.
swap the word Diplomatic with hypocrisy and you are fine ;)

Schiller
13th July 2006, 06:41
i probably did cause i probably did feel bad for the kids in the winter, though all in all, i really didn't feel that much to be honest.

samisback
13th July 2006, 06:43
it is and i don't know if thats good or bad.
same here, no idea, whether a good or bad thing. :|

cinderella
13th July 2006, 06:44
swap the word Diplomatic with hypocrisy and you are fine ;)

There's nothing with being 'diplomatic' if I am not lying. I can't, it's a curse, an inability, but I can't and don't lie. Evading questions, transferring the topics, speaking in riddles, yes, but never lying.

samisback
13th July 2006, 06:48
There's nothing with being 'diplomatic' if I am not lying. I can't, it's a curse, an inability, but I can't and don't lie. Evading questions, transferring the topics, speaking in riddles, yes, but never lying.
so in your dictionary hypocrisy = lying :10:

cinderella
13th July 2006, 06:49
i probably did cause i probably did feel bad for the kids in the winter, though all in all, i really didn't feel that much to be honest.

How could you not ? A man tries to get his kids out of the rubble all day, and he can't because there's too much, but then he loses the will to continue, it's too much, so he kills his kids, then puts a gun to himself. The kids are screaming, their voices echo in the neighborhood, but then they slowly fade away because they don't have the energy to scream any longer?

That would be initial reaction at hearing your comment, however Im one who much prefers the truth and sincerity, you shouldn't offer if you don't feel.

cinderella
13th July 2006, 06:50
so in your dictionary hypocrisy = lying :10:

Yes.

Schiller
13th July 2006, 06:50
How could you not ? A man tries to get his kids out of the rubble all day, and he can't because there's too much, but then he loses the will to continue, it's too much, so he kills his kids, then puts a gun to himself. The kids are screaming, their voices echo in the neighborhood, but then they slowly fade away because they don't have the energy to scream any longer?

That would be initial reaction at hearing your comment, however Im one who much prefers the truth, you shouldn't offer if you don't feel.

i honestly am more indifferent to tragedies(others and even mine) than people think.

samisback
13th July 2006, 06:51
How could you not ? A man tries to get his kids out of the rubble all day, and he can't because there's too much, but then he loses the will to continue, it's too much, so he kills his kids, then puts a gun to himself. The kids are screaming, their voices echo in the neighborhood, but then they slowly fade away because they don't have the energy to scream any longer?

That would be initial reaction at hearing your comment, however Im one who much prefers the truth and sincerity, you shouldn't offer if you don't feel.
actually , the more selfish you are, the better you will be in the long-term ;)

samisback
13th July 2006, 06:51
Yes.
bad future ;)

cinderella
13th July 2006, 06:55
i honestly am more indifferent to tragedies than people think.

That's a good thing. sorta.

cinderella
13th July 2006, 06:57
bad future ;)

Nah :29: EVERYONE lies, I hate it. Lying is somehting I'll forgive but never forget.
What's wrong with brutal honesty?

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:00
Nah :29: EVERYONE lies, I hate it. Lying is somehting I'll forgive but never forget.
What's wrong with brutal honesty?
you will learn , all in good time...give it some time , perhaps another 3 to 5 years .

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:00
by the way , whose EVERYONE :10:

cinderella
13th July 2006, 07:04
you will learn , all in good time...give it some time , perhaps another 3 to 5 years .

Stupid comment.


by the way , whose EVERYONE :10:
Everyone, EVERYONE, even mom " acha us se kaho mein ghar per nahi hoon, ya kaho mein so rahi hoon" if someone calls etc etc :29:

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:06
Stupid comment.


Everyone, EVERYONE, even mom " acha us se kaho mein ghar per nahi hoon, ya kaho mein so rahi hoon" if someone calls etc etc :29:
stupid comment ?

but you just asked "brutal honesty" yourself.

entralinks
13th July 2006, 07:09
And I was dying wondering why comma had not posted anything in the 'without them there would be no pp' thread.

cinderella
13th July 2006, 07:11
stupid comment ?

but you just asked "brutal honesty" yourself.

It remains a stupid comment ~
Honesty in opinion is entirely different.

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:11
And I was dying wondering why comma had not posted anything in the 'without them there would be no pp' thread.
good shot :89:

HAFRIDI
13th July 2006, 07:11
i probably did cause i probably did feel bad for the kids in the winter, though all in all, i really didn't feel that much to be honest.

hmm right. that sums it up then.

So do u not offer C's when muslims are being killied around the world etc? jus a q

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:12
It remains a stupid comment ~
Honesty in opinion is entirely different.
you just called honesty stupid...a lil contradictory are we.....:91:

cinderella
13th July 2006, 07:12
you just called honesty stupid...a lil contradictory are we.....:91:

In all honesty, I called your comment stupid.

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:17
hmm right. that sums it up then.

So do u not offer C's when muslims are being killied around the world etc? jus a q

nope. i abhor it but no C's.

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:18
In all honesty, I called your comment stupid.
and honestly , i was being "brutally honest"........:10:

cinderella
13th July 2006, 07:19
and i was being what, "brutally honest"........:10:

You are missing the point kiddo.

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:19
oh cmon girls stop it

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:19
You are missing the point kiddo.
am i ?

care to expand...yes im thick ;)

cinderella
13th July 2006, 07:22
am i ?

care to expand...yes im thick ;)

I say pink is the best color, you say it's blue, we're still being brutally honest.
By brutal honesty, I mean strictlhonestly, not opinions.
The fact that you were being brutally honest is irrelevant, it remains a stupid comment.
And stop posting more of them.

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:22
Life is a futile exercise, why bother. It is a certainity so why should I mourn it? if its not this way, its that way, that is life.

HAFRIDI
13th July 2006, 07:22
nope. i abhor it but no C's.

Would u say u dont 'care'? or is that going too far?

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:24
Would u say u dont 'care'? or is that going too far?

I care about the fact that how are the relatives and the living going to go on with lives, more than that, not really.
muslims killed around the world, now, i don't care, our own faults.

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:26
I say pink is the best color, you say it's blue, we're still being brutally honest.
By brutal honesty, I mean strictlhonestly, not opinions.
The fact that you were being brutally honest is irrelevant, it remains a stupid comment.
And stop posting more of them.
see, that's the thing with being "brutally honest " , people dont like it ;)

Sach karwa karwa hoying, yeah ;)

cinderella
13th July 2006, 07:28
see, that's the thing with being "brutally honest " , people dont like it ;)

Sach karwa karwa hoying, yeah ;)

Opinions have little to do with 'honesty'.
It remains a stupid comment......... :29:

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:30
cmon yar,

HAFRIDI
13th July 2006, 07:31
I care about the fact that how are the relatives and the living going to go on with lives, more than that, not really.
muslims killed around the world, now, i don't care, our own faults.

So u care about relatives which is understandable obviously.

Why not the same for the innocent muslims(there our blood too) ? again just a q

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:31
Opinions have little to do with 'honesty'.
It remains a stupid comment......... :29:
and yet , here i was thinking honesty was indeed the best policy , no ?

and there you were calling my "brutal honesty" a mere opinion ? that's heart breaking stuff i tell ya :O :O

cinderella
13th July 2006, 07:33
and yet , here i was thinking honesty was indeed the best policy , no ?

and there you were calling my "brutal honesty" a mere opinion ? that's heart breaking stuff i tell ya :O :O

Lol.............. :29: Grow up cav

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:33
So u care about relatives which is understandable obviously.

Why not the same for the innocent muslims(there our blood too) ? again just a q

death is inevitable, doesn't do anything for me really unless there is an emotional tie for me and in all honesty, i feel no tie with people dying elsewhere, we all have to, it doesn't affect me

though

Donne would say, "ask not for whom the bells toll, it tolls for thee" :D

HAFRIDI
13th July 2006, 07:41
death is inevitable, doesn't do anything for me really unless there is an emotional tie for me and in all honesty, i feel no tie with people dying elsewhere, we all have to, it doesn't affect me

though

Donne would say, "ask not for whom the bells toll, it tolls for thee" :D

Fair enough

i actually dont really feel much, but the earthquake in Pak shook me quite a bit. Next thing u know if someone hit u right next to you, u would probably change ur view(talking generally). But all u can do really is offer Dua's

An i agree with Mulan, the 'oh can i do this for you' people are :|

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:43
Fair enough

i actually dont really feel much, but the earthquake in Pak shook me quite a bit. Next thing u know if someone hit u right next to you, u would probably change ur view(talking generally). But all u can do really is offer Dua's

An i agree with Mulan, the 'oh can i do this for you' people are :|

poeple i have an emotional tie with ofcourse ill feel their loss, no denying that. i am a ' can i do this' person but when i say it people know i mean it

UJ
13th July 2006, 07:45
death is inevitable, doesn't do anything for me really unless there is an emotional tie for me and in all honesty, i feel no tie with people dying elsewhere, we all have to, it doesn't affect me

though

Donne would say, "ask not for whom the bells toll, it tolls for thee" :D

what about the circumstances in which people die? Does that have a bearing on you?

HAFRIDI
13th July 2006, 07:47
poeple i have an emotional tie with ofcourse ill feel their loss, no denying that. i am a ' can i do this' person but when i say it people know i mean it

Then ur in the minority

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:47
uj
not a whole lot, no

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:47
Then ur in the minority

i agree, i have seen a lot of 'oh can i do anything' people too and they usually are the most profuse in their 'condolences' too

Team Slayer
13th July 2006, 07:48
im with schiller on this one waisay.

even when my nani passed away, i felt unhappy, but not sad because we werent all that close to be honest. my ma, otoh, was crying her eyes out. in fact, i was sadder for my mom than for my nani.

of course, i prayed for her maghfirat and what not, but even my own nani's death didnt really affect my personal life.

Schiller
13th July 2006, 07:52
same here ts with my grandparents death.

i abhor C's now, cause it just entraps me further in this mire of hypocrisy we are surrounded by

Team Slayer
13th July 2006, 07:56
perhaps i should start taking the new approach, eh schiller. no condolences, only duas and 'im there for you' kinda thing.

but then, had i even implied that to my ma at the time of my nani's death, she would've been SO angry, and that time was not a good time to get her angry at all.

waisay i'd honestly like to know what the salaf did in such situations.

sneekysneeky
13th July 2006, 07:56
heartless bast**** :D

Team Slayer
13th July 2006, 07:58
:91:

my ma actually called me that (without the ******* part :P ) when i was preparing her mentally for my nana's death (his death was very expected due to his medical condition).

samisback
13th July 2006, 07:58
heartless bast**** :D
actually they are not the only ones.......in all honesty im no different...........i guess it's in built .

sneekysneeky
13th July 2006, 08:01
actually they are not the only ones.......in all honesty im no different...........i guess it's in built .
same with me... but when it comes to ppl i know... i would get sad...

samisback
13th July 2006, 08:06
same with me... but when it comes to ppl i know... i would get sad...
actually im the same with people whom i have known, i dont get sad or anything...but it surely makes me think and admire life , so much more.

sneekysneeky
13th July 2006, 08:10
actually im the same with people whom i have known, i dont get sad or anything...but it surely makes me think and admire life , so much more.
just thought about it... i havent seen death in my near relatives so i dont know how i will react... i guess i would be sad...

samisback
13th July 2006, 08:14
just thought about it... i havent seen death in my near relatives so i dont know how i will react... i guess i would be sad...
and Allah karey , you dont see any Death's in the near Family as well, let's leave it at that :)

sneekysneeky
13th July 2006, 08:15
and Allah karey , you dont see any Death's in the near Family as well, let's leave it at that :)
Ameen...

HAFRIDI
13th July 2006, 08:15
just thought about it... i havent seen death in my near relatives so i dont know how i will react... i guess i would be sad...

same here, i dont even know if im ready for it.

catwoman
13th July 2006, 12:47
To be honest, I don't really feel sad when someone dies because people die everyday (there are times when I didn't feel sad about family members either). I do feel sorry for people who are sufferring but that's about it. I think it's better just offer your condolences anyways.