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View Full Version : KP govt's healthcare system is a blueprint for the rest of the country to follow



Mian
16th June 2018, 17:07
HIDDEN under the trite sound bites that the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insafís political leadership thrives on, lies the story of a revolution that must be told.

PTI supporters should be disappointed that their leadership hasnít effectively told the rest of the country about one of their biggest successes.

Few Pakistanis know that the partyís government in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa has successfully implemented a healthcare solution that is a blueprint for the rest of the country to follow.

No, it is not the case that KP has radically outspent everyone else. In fact, all four provinces are running neck and neck in terms of health spending as a percentage of their budgets. The claim that KPís spending priorities are somehow vastly different than Punjabís, which only builds metros, is a fallacy that should be removed from the PTIís rhetorical arsenal and thrown in the wreckage left by Peshawarís bus rapid-transit project.

What should replace it is the reality of the Sehat Sahulat Programme. Because it is innovations like these that can make widespread access to decent medical care a reality in Pakistan. And that is something worth talking about.


Sehat Sahulat is the KP governmentís flagship health insurance programme. As of now, around half of the households in the province, selected for need, based on the Benazir Income Support Programme methodology, are card-carrying members.

An expansion of coverage to 70 per cent of the population is under way. The cards, known as Sehat Insaf cards, signify that the holders are covered by health insurance, with premiums paid to State Life directly by the provincial government.

This insurance allows households to utilise up to Rs540,000 per year, for medical treatment and medicines, at public and private hospitals across the province. So, the poorest person in KP, sans a single rupee in hand, can be treated at the finest private hospital in Peshawar, just like any fee-paying patient.

The cherry on top? The insurance also pays patients lost wages, and in case of referrals from outside Peshawar, travelling money.

Premiums are surprisingly low. Currently, the KP government pays the insurance company just Rs1,500 a year per household covered. Well-placed sources confirm this will have to rise a bit, as the insurance company is currently losing money on the deal.

To keep costs low, and to combat fraud, there are a few caveats to the coverage. Outpatient care isnít included, and there are rules relating to referrals that can be cumbersome. There is also a conscious attempt to prioritise utilisation of government hospitals, to allow them to generate revenue. Despite this, around 60 per cent of the fees paid in insurance claims, are paid to private hospitals.

Sehat Sahulat is a dramatic step towards equity in medical care. It replaces a system where a poor person requiring surgery had to choose between a lower survival probability at a crowded public hospital unable to cope with patient demand, and the certainty of financial ruin at a better equipped private hospital. It lessens the burden on public hospitals, raises the status of poor patients there (because they now represent a revenue source in the form of insurance payments), and enables people to afford private treatment that would previously have been unthinkable.

Alongside equity, Sehat Sahulat represents efficiency in spending healthcare resources. Such efficiency isnít typically achieved by well-intentioned gentlemen in robes, poking at bed sheets, taste-testing food, ordering equipment purchases, and embarrassing the handful of highly qualified specialists who choose to make Pakistan their home.

If public hospitals across the country are hopelessly overcrowded, understaffed and under-equipped, then, yes, part of the reason is that budgetary allocations to healthcare must be raised.

But there is a more obvious reason ó Pakistan is a poor country. To illustrate just how poor we are, consider this: even adjusting for purchasing power and price differences, every rupee earned by every person in the country wouldnít be enough to publicly fund a healthcare system of the quality of, say, Norway ($5000+ per capita expenditure).

So, what we have must be spent efficiently. What KPís brilliant initiative does is show what this might look like. By focusing more spending on insurance premiums, the state encourages a marketplace where entrepreneurs want to invest capital to build and equip new facilities that the government canít afford upfront.

KPís health-sector insiders confirm that this is well under way in the province. New private hospitals are being built at a rapid pace, to cater to demand from a newly insured patient base. This efficiently frees up the capital expense that would be required to build new facilities.

Some treatments are so expensive that no affordable insurance would cover them. For these, the stateís answer will have to remain specialised centres of excellence like the Pakistan Kidney and Liver Institute in Punjab, and the National Institute of Cardiovascular Diseases in Sindh. And for primary care, including the Lady Health Worker programmes and small health units, each province has lessons to learn from others. For everything else, look to KP.

A broad-based, sustainable insurance initiative including private hospitals is something that the federal government has also been working on. That programme, called the Prime Ministerís National Health Programme, still in the early phases of roll-out, covers just a few districts and offers far fewer benefits to beneficiaries. That the KP government has implemented its bold plan on the scale it has, in the time frame it has, is astounding.

That they havenít talked about it more is shocking. The PTI would do well to change that now. And come July, each provincial government must roll the programme out in their domain.

Just as the PTIís 100-day agenda promises ó in about 10 words buried right near the end. One hopes that those supporting equity and efficiency in healthcare spending didnít miss it.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1414476/kps-healthcare-secret

Mian
16th June 2018, 17:08
From your fav Dawn today Mamoon

Bewal Express
16th June 2018, 17:37
Great work KP, lets see the Nooras come on here.

Waseem
16th June 2018, 17:48
Quite a few people surprised about the success of this on social media, i am surprised how many didn't know about this until this article as Imran Khan had been talking about this for more than a year in almost every interview and rallies.

LegendInzi
16th June 2018, 20:50
Oh well, so now Dawn has got credibility, eh?

LegendInzi
16th June 2018, 20:52
Apne pyare Arshad Sharif se chitrol ke baad ab Dawn bhi acha lag raha hai inhein :)))

Syed1
16th June 2018, 20:57
Apne pyare Arshad Sharif se chitrol ke baad ab Dawn bhi acha lag raha hai inhein :)))

I bet you love Arshad Sharif now and forgive him for the pasting he has been dishing out to the Nooras for the last year or so due to Panama case, at that point he was a "boot polshiya"

LegendInzi
16th June 2018, 21:08
I bet you love Arshad Sharif now and forgive him for the pasting he has been dishing out to the Nooras for the last year or so due to Panama case, at that point he was a "boot polshiya"


Btw, your bet is off. I hate Arshad Sharif (and all other Khaki anchors) as feverishly as before this recent PTI phaniti.

I hope tabdeeli-razakars learn a lesson from this and realize that their target is not specifically Nawaz Sharif, Zardari or anyone remotely in position of power. The target of their handlers is any civilian leader aspiring to assume office, and exert authority. You saw Qadri, and other mullahs frothing at their mouth during Zardari tenure bringing inqalab every weekend. You saw that during NS tenure. And you'll see that again if PTI comes to power. Similar for these anchors who given task to undermine civilian leaders. They don't care if that happens to be Zardari, NS or IK.

Vegitto1
17th June 2018, 04:49
This is what PTI is all about. #legendinzi made a nice attempt to take things off topic without appreciating the system in KP.

PTI needs to promote this on all forums!!! This is what a poor man needs to know.

Bewal Express
17th June 2018, 05:03
This is what PTI is all about. #legendinzi made a nice attempt to take things off topic without appreciating the system in KP.

PTI needs to promote this on all forums!!! This is what a poor man needs to know.
LegendInzi aint going to talk about this because the people he supports run to London with a broken eye lash and whats worse at the poor tax payers expense. Kulsooms treatment was costing £200 ,000 for just 3 days or 3 crore. She got elected to avoid paying for her own treatment. If you support these crooks, off course you will change the subject to avoid discussing this great success. Mamoon is still running from me like Usain Bolt because his crook stole 400crore from the clean water scheme.

LegendInzi
17th June 2018, 16:36
This is what PTI is all about. #legendinzi made a nice attempt to take things off topic without appreciating the system in KP.

PTI needs to promote this on all forums!!! This is what a poor man needs to know.


LegendInzi aint going to talk about this because the people he supports run to London with a broken eye lash and whats worse at the poor tax payers expense. Kulsooms treatment was costing £200 ,000 for just 3 days or 3 crore. She got elected to avoid paying for her own treatment. If you support these crooks, off course you will change the subject to avoid discussing this great success. Mamoon is still running from me like Usain Bolt because his crook stole 400crore from the clean water scheme.

Desperate for acknowledgement, eh?

First you appreciate the contents of Dawn Leaks 1 & 2, then I'll accept what's written in this piece.

Vegitto1
17th June 2018, 17:05
Lol - that fact that you have placed a condition on your acceptance shows that you are the one desperate for acknowledgement as to the validity of Dawn leaks 1 & 2.

Furthermore, Dawn leaks relate to statements made by Nawaz Sharif in respect of the role Pak military plays in foreign policy etc

Everyone knows that these comments were made however agreeing or not agreeing with them is a matter of opinion. A lot of ppl will agree with you and a lot will disagree.

Sehat Sahulat initiative is a reality that you canít deny. However you can challenge its effectiveness as itís a matter of opinion.

So please donít think that we need your acknowledgment for anything.

Bewal Express
17th June 2018, 17:45
Desperate for acknowledgement, eh?

First you appreciate the contents of Dawn Leaks 1 & 2, then I'll accept what's written in this piece.

Dawn leaks is a fact, its content is subjective. The improvement in KP health is fact, and you are desperate to avoid that fact.

Waseem
17th June 2018, 19:47
Desperate for acknowledgement, eh?

First you appreciate the contents of Dawn Leaks 1 & 2, then I'll accept what's written in this piece.

So one has to agree with every story a newspaper posts?? :facepalm: :facepalm:

Thanks for the entertainment on Eid bro :)

LegendInzi
17th June 2018, 19:49
So one has to agree with every story a newspaper posts?? :facepalm: :facepalm:

Thanks for the entertainment on Eid bro :)

No you should only agree to stories that you like reading..Meetha meetha hap hap, karwa karwa thu thu

Arham_PakFan
17th June 2018, 20:01
No you should only agree to stories that you like reading..Meetha meetha hap hap, karwa karwa thu thu

The irony is strong.

Mamoon
17th June 2018, 20:34
Instead of going in circles and repeating ourselves by exposing their lies, hypocrisies, delusions, double-standards and u-turns, perhaps it is time to give PTI supporters some breathing space?

They are on the prowl these days with their tails up, but we all know that they will be back to their dharna politics in less than 40 days, as Imran will inshAllah once again fail to become the PM.

August 2018 will be no different to August 2014. Imran will be on top of his container in Islamabad, while Insafiyans will be dancing in the streets with red and green paint on their cheeks, while others, including the PPers here, would be showing their support over the Internet from their armchairs.

However, there will be one difference. Absolutely no one will take them seriously this time around. They have had their chance and they blew it.

His desperation to become the PM has destroyed him - he is a shell of a man he once was, and after he fails to become the PM yet again, there won’t be an ounce of sanity left in him.

I actually feel sorry for PTI loyalists, whose loyalty to the narcissist and the victim of Messiah Complex has failed them.

As a result of their sad devotion, they have been forced to defend every blunder and every u-turn the savior has made, but there is always an end, and I think the failure to win majority in the coming elections will be the straw to break the camel’s back.

While one can always criticize the PTI supporters for their ignorance and naiviety, they cannot be faulted for their fealty and obedience.

So chin up PTI fans, you deserve the humiliation that is coming your way, but you should also take pride in the fact that you stood up for what you believed in, regardless of how nonsensical it was.

Vegitto1
17th June 2018, 21:07
Instead of going in circles and repeating ourselves by exposing their lies, hypocrisies, delusions, double-standards and u-turns, perhaps it is time to give PTI supporters some breathing space?

They are on the prowl these days with their tails up, but we all know that they will be back to their dharna politics in less than 40 days, as Imran will inshAllah once again fail to become the PM.

August 2018 will be no different to August 2014. Imran will be on top of his container in Islamabad, while Insafiyans will be dancing in the streets with red and green paint on their cheeks, while others, including the PPers here, would be showing their support over the Internet from their armchairs.

However, there will be one difference. Absolutely no one will take them seriously this time around. They have had their chance and they blew it.

PTI as a party has great potential, provided that they start again with a clean slate. However, Imran is finished as a leader.

His desperation to become the PM has destroyed him - he is a shell of a man he once was, and after he fails to become the PM yet again, there won’t be an ounce of sanity left in him.

I actually feel sorry for PTI loyalists, whose loyalty to the narcissist and the victim of Messiah Complex has failed them.

As a result of their sad devotion, they have been forced to defend every blunder and every u-turn the savior has made, but there is always an end, and I think the failure to win majority in the coming elections will be the straw to break the camel’s back.

While one can always criticize the PTI supporters for their ignorance and naiviety, they cannot be faulted for their fealty and obedience.

So chin up PTI fans, you deserve the humiliation that is coming your way, but you should also take pride in the fact that you stood up for what you believed in, regardless of how nonsensical it was.

10 paragraphs and not a single one addressing the OP. Try again.

Bewal Express
17th June 2018, 21:40
Instead of going in circles and repeating ourselves by exposing their lies, hypocrisies, delusions, double-standards and u-turns, perhaps it is time to give PTI supporters some breathing space?

They are on the prowl these days with their tails up, but we all know that they will be back to their dharna politics in less than 40 days, as Imran will inshAllah once again fail to become the PM.

August 2018 will be no different to August 2014. Imran will be on top of his container in Islamabad, while Insafiyans will be dancing in the streets with red and green paint on their cheeks, while others, including the PPers here, would be showing their support over the Internet from their armchairs.

However, there will be one difference. Absolutely no one will take them seriously this time around. They have had their chance and they blew it.

His desperation to become the PM has destroyed him - he is a shell of a man he once was, and after he fails to become the PM yet again, there won’t be an ounce of sanity left in him.

I actually feel sorry for PTI loyalists, whose loyalty to the narcissist and the victim of Messiah Complex has failed them.

As a result of their sad devotion, they have been forced to defend every blunder and every u-turn the savior has made, but there is always an end, and I think the failure to win majority in the coming elections will be the straw to break the camel’s back.

While one can always criticize the PTI supporters for their ignorance and naiviety, they cannot be faulted for their fealty and obedience.

So chin up PTI fans, you deserve the humiliation that is coming your way, but you should also take pride in the fact that you stood up for what you believed in, regardless of how nonsensical it was.

What about the 400crore stolen? You can run by not hide.

Extra_Cover
18th June 2018, 13:58
Instead of going in circles and repeating ourselves by exposing their lies, hypocrisies, delusions, double-standards and u-turns, perhaps it is time to give PTI supporters some breathing space?

They are on the prowl these days with their tails up, but we all know that they will be back to their dharna politics in less than 40 days, as Imran will inshAllah once again fail to become the PM.

August 2018 will be no different to August 2014. Imran will be on top of his container in Islamabad, while Insafiyans will be dancing in the streets with red and green paint on their cheeks, while others, including the PPers here, would be showing their support over the Internet from their armchairs.

However, there will be one difference. Absolutely no one will take them seriously this time around. They have had their chance and they blew it.

His desperation to become the PM has destroyed him - he is a shell of a man he once was, and after he fails to become the PM yet again, there wonít be an ounce of sanity left in him.

I actually feel sorry for PTI loyalists, whose loyalty to the narcissist and the victim of Messiah Complex has failed them.

As a result of their sad devotion, they have been forced to defend every blunder and every u-turn the savior has made, but there is always an end, and I think the failure to win majority in the coming elections will be the straw to break the camelís back.

While one can always criticize the PTI supporters for their ignorance and naiviety, they cannot be faulted for their fealty and obedience.

So chin up PTI fans, you deserve the humiliation that is coming your way, but you should also take pride in the fact that you stood up for what you believed in, regardless of how nonsensical it was.

This is quite an absurd post as it doesn't address anything specific.

No matter which party you support or from which part of Pakistan you are from, one cannot deny the positive impact Imran has had already on Pakistan's politics.

Imran is the reason as of now an average Pakistani is looking forward to an improved and developed Pakistan in 5 years down the line because he has done the dirty work of swatting away the political leeches which were sucking the life of out of an average Pakistani for decades. Only few more of such leeches left after which we can look forward to better Pakistan based on meritocracy.

Mamoon
18th June 2018, 18:04
This is quite an absurd post as it doesn't address anything specific.

No matter which party you support or from which part of Pakistan you are from, one cannot deny the positive impact Imran has had already on Pakistan's politics.

Imran is the reason as of now an average Pakistani is looking forward to an improved and developed Pakistan in 5 years down the line because he has done the dirty work of swatting away the political leeches which were sucking the life of out of an average Pakistani for decades. Only few more of such leeches left after which we can look forward to better Pakistan based on meritocracy.

That is what he promised and that is why people like me voted for him. However, he has walked back on all the promises that he made.

Because of his desperation to become the PM, instead of swatting away the political leeches, he has welcomed them in his own party.

He has renamed the crooks, corrupt politicians and tried and tested failures as ďelectablesĒ, i.e. people who win elections because of their influence and power, regardless of which party they are standing for.

The voters of these electables donít care what party they are representing.

Few years back, Imran said on record that he will never do politics on the back of electables. However, his desire for power is so great that he is happy to walk back on what he stood for.

Imran gave people hope, but he also took that hope and optimism away. He has failed the nation because when push came to shove, he showed that he is no different to any other politician, someone who sways voters with political rhetoric but is not willing to walk the talk.

Talk is cheap, and Imran was a breath of fresh air, but when the time came to implement his ideology and manifesto, he failed.

Deep down, PTI supporters do realize that he has failed them. For years, they opposed everything that he is doing now, but since it has become a cult, they will defend him no matter what.

It has reached a point where you cannot have a civil discussion with a PTI supporter, because you are either a PTI supporter or you are a hater. People like you are a rarity, because you are willing to listen to a contrarian point of view.

Imran has the same problem. You are either with him or you are against him, and if you are against him, he will go to any lengths to put you in bad light, but if you are with him, he will whitewash your past and forget everything that you have done.

This is the attitude that has lost him plenty of support, and allowed people like Amir Liaquat, Jahangir Tareen, Sheikh Rasheed, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Firdous Awan and many other despicable individuals etc. etc. to join PTI.

However, if these people jump ship again, Imran along with his supporters will immediately change their stance, and those people will become the ďbad guysĒ again.

The common defense of the PTI supporters is that yes he has made mistakes, but he is still better than others. For me, that is not a defense - in other words, his supporters are admitting that he has failed.

Initially, they put him on a pedestal and hailed him as the savior, but now, they have lowered their standards by seeking solace in the notion that he is relatively better or a lesser evil.

The reason why Imran gets so much criticism and hatred is because he has proved himself to be a fake leader

History is strive with examples of leaders who gave up their lives but did not compromise their values and beliefs for power, because they had the strength to stand up for what they believed in.

On the other hand, we have our pseudo revolutionist Imran who has given up his ideology and what he believed in, in order to become the PM.

Imran Khan, being the narcissist that he is, thought of politics as a game of cricket, where he will clean bowl the corrupt politicians and make Pakistan a utopian state.

He reached the pinnacle of his profession, and thus he thought of himself as invincible. However, politics is not a game, and it is something that he realized very late.

If he would have been honest initially and would have admitted that he has to get his hands dirty in the dirty business of Pakistan politics, he would have been respected a lot more.

However, he sold an ideology to the people, an ideology that he hasnít been able to fulfill, and from siding with corrupt politicians and the military establishment, he has showed that he is willing to go to any length to gain power, and that is not the hallmark of a leader who wants to bring change and give new hope to the people.

I am sorry for the long post, but I thought it was necessary.

Bewal Express
18th June 2018, 18:11
That is what he promised and that is why people like me voted for him. However, he has walked back on all the promises that he made.

Because of his desperation to become the PM, instead of swatting away the political leeches, he has welcomed them in his own party.

He has renamed the crooks, corrupt politicians and tried and tested failures as “electables”, i.e. people who win elections because of their influence and power, regardless of which party they are standing for.

The voters of these electables don’t care what party they are representing.

Few years back, Imran said on record that he will never do politics on the back of electables. However, his desire for power is so great that he is happy to walk back on what he stood for.

Imran gave people hope, but he also took that hope and optimism away. He has failed the nation because when push came to shove, he showed that he is no different to any other politician, someone who sways voters with political rhetoric but is not willing to walk the talk.

Talk is cheap, and Imran was a breath of fresh air, but when the time came to implement his ideology and manifesto, he failed.

Deep down, PTI supporters do realize that he has failed them. For years, they opposed everything that he is doing now, but since it has become a cult, they will defend him no matter what.

It has reached a point where you cannot have a civil discussion with a PTI supporter, because you are either a PTI supporter or you are a hater. People like you are a rarity, because you are willing to listen to a contrarian point of view.

Imran has the same problem. You are either with him or you are against him, and if you are against him, he will go to any lengths to put you in bad light, but if you are with him, he will whitewash your past and forget everything that you have done.

This is the attitude that has lost him plenty of support, and allowed people like Amir Liaquat, Jahangir Tareen, Sheikh Rasheed, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Firdous Awan and many other despicable individuals etc. etc. to join PTI.

However, if these people jump ship again, Imran along with his supporters will immediately change their stance, and those people will become the “bad guys” again.

The common defense of the PTI supporters is that yes he has made mistakes, but he is still better than others. For me, that is not a defense - in other words, his supporters are admitting that he has failed.

Initially, they put him on a pedestal and hailed him as the savior, but now, they have lowered their standards by seeking solace in the notion that he is relatively better or a lesser evil.

The reason why Imran gets so much criticism and hatred is because he has proved himself to be a fake leader

History is strive with examples of leaders who gave up their lives but did not compromise their values and beliefs for power, because they had the strength to stand up for what they believed in.

On the other hand, we have our pseudo revolutionist Imran who has given up his ideology and what he believed in, in order to become the PM.

Imran Khan, being the narcissist that he is, thought of politics as a game of cricket, where he will clean bowl the corrupt politicians and make Pakistan a utopian state.

He reached the pinnacle of his profession, and thus he thought of himself as invincible. However, politics is not a game, and it is something that he realized very late.

If he would have been honest initially and would have admitted that he has to get his hands dirty in the dirty business of Pakistan politics, he would have been respected a lot more.

However, he sold an ideology to the people, an ideology that he hasn’t been able to fulfill, and from siding with corrupt politicians and the military establishment, he has showed that he is willing to go to any length to gain power, and that is not the hallmark of a leader who wants to bring change and give new hope to the people.

I am sorry for the long post, but I thought it was necessary.

Another long winded load of tosh and what about your man Showbiz and his theft of 400 crore from the poor in clean water scheme. Why not comment? Afterall he is the man you are voting for, lets here your defence of this corrupt thug that murdered 14 people in broad daylight.

Extra_Cover
18th June 2018, 18:44
That is what he promised and that is why people like me voted for him. However, he has walked back on all the promises that he made.

Because of his desperation to become the PM, instead of swatting away the political leeches, he has welcomed them in his own party.

He has renamed the crooks, corrupt politicians and tried and tested failures as “electables”, i.e. people who win elections because of their influence and power, regardless of which party they are standing for.

The voters of these electables don’t care what party they are representing.

This is where Imran drew the line. An ideological person with sense to distinguish what is right can't do jack for a normal Pakistani unless he/she is in power. The country is so backward in their way of thinking (due to lack of focus on education since decades thanks to PMLN and PPP) that in order to get into power you need to get electables which these people represent. Once you are in power then you would see the change in culture and way of thinking which will flow from top down.

Few years back, Imran said on record that he will never do politics on the back of electables. However, his desire for power is so great that he is happy to walk back on what he stood for.

Imran gave people hope, but he also took that hope and optimism away. He has failed the nation because when push came to shove, he showed that he is no different to any other politician, someone who sways voters with political rhetoric but is not willing to walk the talk.

Talk is cheap, and Imran was a breath of fresh air, but when the time came to implement his ideology and manifesto, he failed.

This is where you are wrong, infact PMLN made a mockery when it came to implementing their manifesto promises in the current government. To give you a small example, PMLN promised to spend 4% and 2% of annual GDP on education and healthcare respectively. Guess what, an average of less than 2% and 0.9% was actually spent. Now tell me who stopped them from doing this expenditure? No external factors involved and they simply can't keep their promises.

While PTI has implemented a healthcare plan which has worked across KP. Using the new sehat sahulat plan an average Pakistani can dream of private healthcare facilities. People on ground have already appraised the education, police and environmental efforts. So all in all there must be something that PTI did well in their tenure, correct?

Deep down, PTI supporters do realize that he has failed them. For years, they opposed everything that he is doing now, but since it has become a cult, they will defend him no matter what.

It has reached a point where you cannot have a civil discussion with a PTI supporter, because you are either a PTI supporter or you are a hater. People like you are a rarity, because you are willing to listen to a contrarian point of view.

Imran has the same problem. You are either with him or you are against him, and if you are against him, he will go to any lengths to put you in bad light, but if you are with him, he will whitewash your past and forget everything that you have done.

This is the attitude that has lost him plenty of support, and allowed people like Amir Liaquat, Jahangir Tareen, Sheikh Rasheed, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, Firdous Awan and many other despicable individuals etc. etc. to join PTI.

However, if these people jump ship again, Imran along with his supporters will immediately change their stance, and those people will become the “bad guys” again.


This is the unfortunate reality in which we live in. The nation is so divided in politics at the moment that competition between parties have turned into hatred. Further, with advancement of social media every average Pakistani becomes a national reporter and keeps churning out hatred filled comments behind an anonymous mask. I don't appreciate this culture and condemn and personal attack on any politician for any petty gain. But we all also know which political party carries out the worst kind of personal attacks for very petty gains and its not PTI.

The common defense of the PTI supporters is that yes he has made mistakes, but he is still better than others. For me, that is not a defense - in other words, his supporters are admitting that he has failed.

Initially, they put him on a pedestal and hailed him as the savior, but now, they have lowered their standards by seeking solace in the notion that he is relatively better or a lesser evil.

The reason why Imran gets so much criticism and hatred is because he has proved himself to be a fake leader

No fake leader could start a political party with only himself and then after decades of struggle becomes the biggest political force in the country. On top of all this we are talking about Pakistan where political parties have historically been family based and their kinship is in charge of the country. Imran built the force by his hardwork and mainly because the country was sick and tired to see kinship ruling over them for decades and making their lives miserable. Ask any middle aged Pakistani about his standard of living in 70s and 80s, he will tell you that being a Pakistani he had a high standard of living which commanded respect from neighbouring countries. Ask the same person about his standard of living as of now and he will tell you of xyz diseases making his life miserable, no clean water, no employment for kids, etc. Bottomline being late 80s was when these political leeches took over the government, now you can do the rest of connecting the dots.

History is strive with examples of leaders who gave up their lives but did not compromise their values and beliefs for power, because they had the strength to stand up for what they believed in.

On the other hand, we have our pseudo revolutionist Imran who has given up his ideology and what he believed in, in order to become the PM.

Imran Khan, being the narcissist that he is, thought of politics as a game of cricket, where he will clean bowl the corrupt politicians and make Pakistan a utopian state.

He reached the pinnacle of his profession, and thus he thought of himself as invincible. However, politics is not a game, and it is something that he realized very late.

If he would have been honest initially and would have admitted that he has to get his hands dirty in the dirty business of Pakistan politics, he would have been respected a lot more.

Imran's honesty cannot be questioned. Remember the earthquakes in northern Pakistan in mid 2000s, any ideas which person an average Pakistani was willing to give their donations to? Every Pakistani knew if they give their donations to Govt run charities then there are high chances this will never reach the needy. On the other hand they knew the donated amounts to Imran would defo end up reaching the needy. Imran's honesty and trust worthy attributes is what that has established his legacy.

However, he sold an ideology to the people, an ideology that he hasn’t been able to fulfill, and from siding with corrupt politicians and the military establishment, he has showed that he is willing to go to any length to gain power, and that is not the hallmark of a leader who wants to bring change and give new hope to the people.

I am sorry for the long post, but I thought it was necessary.

See above.

Mian
27th June 2018, 21:21
See above.

Some solid answers but you never received a reply i guess? We saw this in BTT thread too he never showed up there again! Good luck getting a reply

Extra_Cover
28th June 2018, 01:19
Some solid answers but you never received a reply i guess? We saw this in BTT thread too he never showed up there again! Good luck getting a reply

Still waiting. I don't want to sound rude but people on here opposing Imran don't have any valid reasoning. Any Pakistani should answer the following three questions about Imran before deciding to cast their vote.

1. Is Imran corrupt?
2. Will Imran spend Govt money on people of Pakistan or create his mansion?
3. Can Imran represent a strong image of Pakistan internationally/stand upto international threats or will he timidly push Pakistan further into international slide?

Bewal Express
28th June 2018, 01:23
Still waiting. I don't want to sound rude but people on here opposing Imran don't have any valid reasoning. Any Pakistani should answer the following three questions about Imran before deciding to cast their vote.

1. Is Imran corrupt?
2. Will Imran spend Govt money on people of Pakistan or create his mansion?
3. Can Imran represent a strong image of Pakistan internationally/stand upto international threats or will he timidly push Pakistan further into international slide?
Mamoon
Are you still running?

Mian
28th June 2018, 01:42
Still waiting. I don't want to sound rude but people on here opposing Imran don't have any valid reasoning. Any Pakistani should answer the following three questions about Imran before deciding to cast their vote.

1. Is Imran corrupt?
2. Will Imran spend Govt money on people of Pakistan or create his mansion?
3. Can Imran represent a strong image of Pakistan internationally/stand upto international threats or will he timidly push Pakistan further into international slide?

That's not rude brother you are just being logical and your thinking isn't biased but the ones you are answering are filled with bughaz e imran.

Mamoon
28th June 2018, 16:06
Extra_Cover

Imran has changed the definition of "electables" to justify his U-turn and double-faced politics. From referring to them as status quo who have brought the country to its knees, he has now changed his tune and has decided to call them as politicians who know the "science of winning elections". What is this science?

This "science" is nothing but demagogy and political rhetoric used effectively by these crooks that has enabled them to win elections irrespective of which party they are representing. What Imran do to ensure that they stay in line?

Will Pirni recite some spell and do a "choof" to ensure that the leopards will change their spots? A leopard does not change his spots, there is no need of painting it. Corrupt people will remain corrupt, Imran cannot do anything sitting at the top.

For simplicity, instead of listing all the crooks and frauds one by one, I will give you one concrete example in one sentence: do you think Amir Liaquat will stop being Amir Liaquat now that he is in PTI? Do you think he will usher a new era, and do you think he is a man who represents tabdeeli?

To justify his U-turn and his decision to redefine electables (lotas), he has given examples of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and Mahathir. How disturbing is that?

However, what do you expect from a man who has disowned his daughter to protect his political career and got a Pirni, a mother of four, divorced because he thinks she can help him become the PM. A woman who claimed that she saw the Prophet PBUH in her dream, who convinced her to marry Imran because it will help him become the PM.

These are the morals of this man. Yes he is financially not corrupt, but financial corruption is not the only criteria. However, his supporters are yet to explain why he has been running from his embezzlement case for four years, and how he is running his Bana Gala palace on 4 lakhs per month and three goats.
Mian Bewal Express

Can you please enlighten us why Imran is running from his case?

Moreover, he claims to have no personal vehicles. I wonder why his crook billionaire friends are lending him cars and planes? Surely, it has nothing to do with the fact that these people see him an investment who will pay off if he comes into power.

At a personal level, he won't spend public money because he will continue to be a freeloader on his billionaire friends, but can he stop his electables from doing what they have been doing all their lives?

As far as representation in international forums are concerned, Imran is a better representative than Nawaz Sharif, but Pakistan's outlook depends on its foreign policy, and our foreign policy is dictated by the military establishment.

"Countries have armies, but Pakistan Army has a country." These are not my words, but this how Pakistan is commonly described on international forums. The whole world is aware of the fact that the military runs the show in Pakistan, but the people of Pakistan have chosen to live in denial.

Pakistan's foreign policy is centered on strained relationships with India and Afghanistan, and that is what the military establishment wants. Imran Khan is their man now, but the day he decides to defy them, he will suffer the same fate as Nawaz, who was launched by the military and was thus an Army man himself initially.

Bewal Express
28th June 2018, 17:17
Extra_Cover

Imran has changed the definition of "electables" to justify his U-turn and double-faced politics. From referring to them as status quo who have brought the country to its knees, he has now changed his tune and has decided to call them as politicians who know the "science of winning elections". What is this science?

This "science" is nothing but demagogy and political rhetoric used effectively by these crooks that has enabled them to win elections irrespective of which party they are representing. What Imran do to ensure that they stay in line?

Will Pirni recite some spell and do a "choof" to ensure that the leopards will change their spots? A leopard does not change his spots, there is no need of painting it. Corrupt people will remain corrupt, Imran cannot do anything sitting at the top.

For simplicity, instead of listing all the crooks and frauds one by one, I will give you one concrete example in one sentence: do you think Amir Liaquat will stop being Amir Liaquat now that he is in PTI? Do you think he will usher a new era, and do you think he is a man who represents tabdeeli?

To justify his U-turn and his decision to redefine electables (lotas), he has given examples of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and Mahathir. How disturbing is that?

However, what do you expect from a man who has disowned his daughter to protect his political career and got a Pirni, a mother of four, divorced because he thinks she can help him become the PM. A woman who claimed that she saw the Prophet PBUH in her dream, who convinced her to marry Imran because it will help him become the PM.

These are the morals of this man. Yes he is financially not corrupt, but financial corruption is not the only criteria. However, his supporters are yet to explain why he has been running from his embezzlement case for four years, and how he is running his Bana Gala palace on 4 lakhs per month and three goats.
Mian Bewal Express

Can you please enlighten us why Imran is running from his case?

Moreover, he claims to have no personal vehicles. I wonder why his crook billionaire friends are lending him cars and planes? Surely, it has nothing to do with the fact that these people see him an investment who will pay off if he comes into power.

At a personal level, he won't spend public money because he will continue to be a freeloader on his billionaire friends, but can he stop his electables from doing what they have been doing all their lives?

As far as representation in international forums are concerned, Imran is a better representative than Nawaz Sharif, but Pakistan's outlook depends on its foreign policy, and our foreign policy is dictated by the military establishment.

"Countries have armies, but Pakistan Army has a country." These are not my words, but this how Pakistan is commonly described on international forums. The whole world is aware of the fact that the military runs the show in Pakistan, but the people of Pakistan have chosen to live in denial.

Pakistan's foreign policy is centered on strained relationships with India and Afghanistan, and that is what the military establishment wants. Imran Khan is their man now, but the day he decides to defy them, he will suffer the same fate as Nawaz, who was launched by the military and was thus an Army man himself initially.

Yes off course IK is a terrible corrupt person. On the subject of corruption what did happen to the 400 crore from saf pani scheme from your own man.

Extra_Cover
28th June 2018, 20:12
Extra_Cover

Imran has changed the definition of "electables" to justify his U-turn and double-faced politics. From referring to them as status quo who have brought the country to its knees, he has now changed his tune and has decided to call them as politicians who know the "science of winning elections". What is this science?

This "science" is nothing but demagogy and political rhetoric used effectively by these crooks that has enabled them to win elections irrespective of which party they are representing. What Imran do to ensure that they stay in line?

Will Pirni recite some spell and do a "choof" to ensure that the leopards will change their spots? A leopard does not change his spots, there is no need of painting it. Corrupt people will remain corrupt, Imran cannot do anything sitting at the top.

For simplicity, instead of listing all the crooks and frauds one by one, I will give you one concrete example in one sentence: do you think Amir Liaquat will stop being Amir Liaquat now that he is in PTI? Do you think he will usher a new era, and do you think he is a man who represents tabdeeli?

To justify his U-turn and his decision to redefine electables (lotas), he has given examples of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and Mahathir. How disturbing is that?

However, what do you expect from a man who has disowned his daughter to protect his political career and got a Pirni, a mother of four, divorced because he thinks she can help him become the PM. A woman who claimed that she saw the Prophet PBUH in her dream, who convinced her to marry Imran because it will help him become the PM.

These are the morals of this man. Yes he is financially not corrupt, but financial corruption is not the only criteria. However, his supporters are yet to explain why he has been running from his embezzlement case for four years, and how he is running his Bana Gala palace on 4 lakhs per month and three goats.
Mian Bewal Express

Can you please enlighten us why Imran is running from his case?

Moreover, he claims to have no personal vehicles. I wonder why his crook billionaire friends are lending him cars and planes? Surely, it has nothing to do with the fact that these people see him an investment who will pay off if he comes into power.

At a personal level, he won't spend public money because he will continue to be a freeloader on his billionaire friends, but can he stop his electables from doing what they have been doing all their lives?

As far as representation in international forums are concerned, Imran is a better representative than Nawaz Sharif, but Pakistan's outlook depends on its foreign policy, and our foreign policy is dictated by the military establishment.

"Countries have armies, but Pakistan Army has a country." These are not my words, but this how Pakistan is commonly described on international forums. The whole world is aware of the fact that the military runs the show in Pakistan, but the people of Pakistan have chosen to live in denial.

Pakistan's foreign policy is centered on strained relationships with India and Afghanistan, and that is what the military establishment wants. Imran Khan is their man now, but the day he decides to defy them, he will suffer the same fate as Nawaz, who was launched by the military and was thus an Army man himself initially.

This post is filled with IFs and BUTs rather than actual on ground realities. This is a shame really, as you are suggesting people to cast their vote on what might happen rather than vote on the actual reality as to what has already happened.

Now getting back to your above post. Let me ask couple of rhetoric questions to your IFs and BUTs.

1. Will Amir Liaquat change under PTI banner? No, he will continue to be loud/bad mouth, irritating, imposter, trp driven individual that he already is. He won't change his morals but would he spend his constituency money on his house? Would he have a Swiss bank account with no money trails? Would he not raise voice for the needy? Personally speaking I don't like the guy but as long as he is not eating up the rights of others for his personal gains then its already a change.
Now, please ask yourself this question will Ahad Cheema be the same under PMLN leadership? Isn't that more of a concern for an average Pakistani than Liaquat?

2. Bringing into debate the Pirni and her prophecies.
How is this even relevant to Pakistan politics? Or even a further simpler question how does the Pirni have any sort of effect on yours or mine or any other average Pakistani's life? If it doesn't impact you then not sure why even have a debate on it.

3. Being financially corrupt, running Bani Gala or billionaire friends
Imran not being financially corrupt is already acknowledged by yourself so that question is already answered.

Now, I'm not sure about the running expenditures of Bani Gala or how these are paid for. However, as per my understanding Bani Gala is often or mostly used for PTI meetings and discussions. Surely the accounts of PTI should bear most of the costs of this property if it is utilised mostly in that capacity, wouldn't you agree?

Billionaire friends - Your entire debate is a prediction/hunch/forecast that Pakistan assets would be misappropriated by his billionaire friends for personal gain. This is the way you choose to look at it. However, there is another way to look into matters as well. For example, there are acres of fertile land in Pakistan which is not well cultivated or there are many large cotton/steel/fabrics factory that has been closed for decades. Maybe there is room to start opening these factories again to start business opportunities. This might lead to profits for them if they acquire these business but on a larger scale it would lead to employment, exports, better international trade, etc. You currently choose to look into the picture that conveniently suits your argument.

4. Pakistan army running the show
Remind me again if the Government used to receive the financial aid from overseas or the Army did? My guess is that Govt received the international aid. Now not sure how the international aid that Pakistan has been receiving over the years never did Pakistan any favour, maybe it was misappropriated and the portion that was due to be spent on people ended up for furnishings in some high class mansions.

Imran for all I know won't be sweating like Nawaz did during his meeting with Obama. The man eloquence to stand on his principles even when faced by toughest of oppositions. This is a sign of a true leader and this is high time Pakistan has one.

Mian
29th June 2018, 01:42
Any doctor here? Can you confirm the price of this medicine in market? I heard this is one of the most expensive medicine and is used by blood cancer patients but it's available for free in KP govt hospitals for patients.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgxReWpWAAEAIh7.jpg:small

Mian
2nd July 2018, 20:33
In a country where affordable healthcare is a dream for many, PTI's Sehat Sahulat Programme seems revolutionary.

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) may get an edge over its opponents, thanks to the Sehat Sahulat Programme the party's government introduced in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) while it was in power.

According to a story in today's Dawn, around 110,000 people in KP have been able to benefit from the programme that provides free healthcare to families that have an income of $2 a day. The programme covers 69 per cent of the province's population.

In a country where affordable healthcare is a dream for many, PTI's Sehat Sahulat Programme seems revolutionary. And it won't be far-fetched to assume that the beneficiaries of the programme would vote for the PTI.

https://www.dawn.com/elections/blog/

slipcatch
2nd July 2018, 21:10
In a country where affordable healthcare is a dream for many, PTI's Sehat Sahulat Programme seems revolutionary.

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) may get an edge over its opponents, thanks to the Sehat Sahulat Programme the party's government introduced in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) while it was in power.

According to a story in today's Dawn, around 110,000 people in KP have been able to benefit from the programme that provides free healthcare to families that have an income of $2 a day. The programme covers 69 per cent of the province's population.

In a country where affordable healthcare is a dream for many, PTI's Sehat Sahulat Programme seems revolutionary. And it won't be far-fetched to assume that the beneficiaries of the programme would vote for the PTI.

https://www.dawn.com/elections/blog/

Remarkable.
Why would the 'cult' provide cheap and affordable treatment for those who can't afford it and give them some respect by treating them fairly.

But lets resort to talk about electable, washing machine, etc.

Us, the member of 'cult' are just stupid to support this kind of treatment of poor.

He might be 'messiah' after all if all the people who earn less than $2 are getting the attention they deserve.

Do not let anyone talk down on this program who happened to work in a system where they charge arm and legs for carrying you to the hospital in an ambulance.

the Great Khan
2nd July 2018, 21:11
In a country where affordable healthcare is a dream for many, PTI's Sehat Sahulat Programme seems revolutionary.

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) may get an edge over its opponents, thanks to the Sehat Sahulat Programme the party's government introduced in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) while it was in power.

According to a story in today's Dawn, around 110,000 people in KP have been able to benefit from the programme that provides free healthcare to families that have an income of $2 a day. The programme covers 69 per cent of the province's population.

In a country where affordable healthcare is a dream for many, PTI's Sehat Sahulat Programme seems revolutionary. And it won't be far-fetched to assume that the beneficiaries of the programme would vote for the PTI.

https://www.dawn.com/elections/blog/

If they don't do anything and fix our healthcare system they deserve to be lauded in the history books. PMLN has ruled for 30 odd years and never managed anything close..even the PPP managed the BISP..

slipcatch
2nd July 2018, 21:11
Any doctor here? Can you confirm the price of this medicine in market? I heard this is one of the most expensive medicine and is used by blood cancer patients but it's available for free in KP govt hospitals for patients.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgxReWpWAAEAIh7.jpg:small

cheapest version of this cost about USD 3200.00

slipcatch
2nd July 2018, 21:15
Just imagine every Pakistani getting the similar treatment.

To those, 'hospital aren't up to the standard to those of US and Britain'. NO kidding sherlock.

Bewal Express
2nd July 2018, 23:25
Another great achievement of giving dignity to the poor. Nooras couldnt make one hospital they would use themselves after nearly 30 years of power. Instead Kulsoom is treated at the cost of nearly £70,000 per day or 1.2 crore. Just imagine what could be done with that in Pakistan.