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MIG
28th March 2005, 18:54
Thanks to AJ:

Fixtures

Sat 2 Apr 1st ODI Cochin

Tue 5 Apr 2nd ODI Vishakapatnam

Sat 9 Apr 3rd ODI Jamshedpur

Tue 12 Apr 4th ODI Ahmedabad

Fri 15 Apr 5th ODI Kanpur

Sun 17 Apr 6th ODI Delhi

head to head record

overall

played 95 - pak wins 58 india wins 33 N/R 4

in india

played 11 - pak wins 11 india wins 4

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

venue 1 cochin

indian record (played 3) - won 2 lost 1

pakistan neva played on the ground

venue 2 Vishakapatnam

indian record (played 3) - won 2 lost 1

pakistan neva played on the ground

venue 3 Jamshedpur

indian record (played 7) - won 1 lost 5 N/R 1

pak record (played 1) - won 1

venue 4 Ahmedabad

indian record (played 7) - won 5 lost 2

pakistan neva played on the ground

venue 5 Kanpur

indian record (played 8) - won 6 lost 2

pakistan neva played on the ground

venue 6 dehli

indian record (played 10) - won 6 lost 4

pakistan neva played on the ground

Jedi Knight
28th March 2005, 19:15
Cant wait for the one dayers to start now...

Just watch out for the Indian Slayer aka 'The Afridi'.
javascript:emoticon(':/|')

He looks to be on fire.

Amjid Javed
28th March 2005, 19:17
Wed 30 Mar v India A Hyderabad

also on list... warm up match...

badxhah
28th March 2005, 19:26
MIG i think u have the played in India one wrong

MIG
28th March 2005, 19:30
MIG i think u have the played in India one wrong

Ok - pls provide the corrected text - thanks

Sharif
28th March 2005, 20:30
I would put afridi to open as he would be devastating and also india cannot put their whole team on the boundary on the first 15 overs.

pakistani pride
28th March 2005, 20:31
It will be a huge series. expect huge scores. India cAN GET good starts through their openers.........

tapss
28th March 2005, 21:05
CONGRATULATIONS INDEED!

What a performance by a young group of fighting and talented cricketers.

I think the verdict is justified.

Ind played well at Mohali but Pak fought back equally well.

Both teams collapsed n the final day in Kolkotta and Bangalore.

Indian top order is great with Sehwag,Dravid and Sachin.

Pak middle order is in the form of its life with Younous,Inzi,Youhana striking it rich...In contrast,Indian middle-order is pathetic with Gangs and Laxman!Both teams have a decent keeper-batsman and Pak I feel has a better lower-order batting while Ind has a slight edge in bowling.

Inspite of whats on paper,the teams showed that they are evenly matched! Ind had the experience and Pak had the youth and fighting spirit!

I felt that Pak were carrying a useless extra load in the second test playing Khaleel while Ganguly was the useless extra load for Ind which hurt them in the final test!

All in all,a damn exciting series played in healthy spirits with no quarters given or taken!

As an Indian fan,a bit disappointed that we couldnt make it 2 series in a row against Pak.But hey,its a draw!So,atleast it isnt a disaster!
The test series draw now adds a new dimension to the ODI series.The winners may have some bragging rights.

But personally for me,this was the highlight of the tour.Pretty much not too interested in the ODI's.Thats just timepass!!

Finally,once again.Congrats to all Pak fans...And to the rest of the world-Forget the Ashes or the Aus-NZ rivalry..Ind-Pak games are the REAL deal!

pakistani pride
28th March 2005, 21:19
The ODIs mean really much to pakistanis and indians you cant brush that away !

Amjid Javed
28th March 2005, 22:29
intresting to note the form off both sides since india won 3-2 in pakistan.

pakistan played 26 --> won 16 lost 10 (62% wins)
V major (20) --------> won 10 lost 10 (50% wins)
v minnows (6) ------> won 6 (100% wins)

india played 17 --> won 7 lost 9 N/R 1 (41% wins)
V major (11) ----> won 2 lost 8 N/R 1 (18% wins)
v minnows (6) ---> won 5 lost 1 ( 83% wins)


since that famous win for india its been a steep downward curve... whereaes pakistan have steadily improved....!

india have won just 2 games out off 11 against top oppostion (including lossing 4-0 to pakistan)

Geordie Ahmed
28th March 2005, 23:55
Interesting stats there AJ!

I do like the look of our ODI side (bar Hafeez) and im confident we can do really well!

Amjid Javed
29th March 2005, 00:07
All the stats point to a pakistan series win. head to head record historically, recently, in india and even recent form(4-0) ..! however crickets not playe on paper.

I blv pakistan will win series 4-2. i originally though 6-0 or 5-1 to pakistan.. but recon we may lose or 2 games.

pakistani pride
29th March 2005, 01:01
dont under estimate the ********* !

they got a strong batting line up who can easily score huge on flat tracks.

pakistani pride
29th March 2005, 01:37
Also the ********* got the shock of their lives today and now are trying to make us huge faverouts for the odi series so that we cant come back at them !

I dont understand why pak are faverouts. They(*********) got one hell of flat track specialists and can get good scores.

i just want us to stay calm and not predict easy wins in the odi series ! cause it will be hard....

w4s1m786
29th March 2005, 05:58
i think im the only one and think hafeez will do well in this odi series, there was one knock in austraila he played he looked pretty solid i think he will do well in the middle order

Jonty
29th March 2005, 07:08
Butt
Hameed
Younis
*Inzamam
Malik
Youhana
Razzaq
Afridi
+Kamran
Naved
Sami

Muddaser
29th March 2005, 07:14
Hameed has been dropped!

I would go with.

Salman Butt
Shoaib Malik
Younis Khan
Inzamam
Yousuf Youhana
Abdul Razzaq
Shahid Afridi
Kamran Akmal
Naved Ul Hasan
Mohammed Sami
Shahid Nazir

Daoud
29th March 2005, 08:04
I reckon Akmal might do ok as opener in India. But the dilema is if he fails, Shoaib Malik will be playing as a virtual opener anyway. But I agree with Mudasser's team

gfx
29th March 2005, 08:52
Guys.......
Hafeez will play, Inzi and Woolmer insist on a 6th bowling option, and on Indian pitches you can use the extra spinner. Dont forget, Hafeez was our first choice openor once (though not a great one)
I would play...
Hafeez
Malik
Younis
Yoyo
Inzi
Akmal
Razzaq
Afridi
Rana
Sami
Shahid Nazir

Awesome Anjum
29th March 2005, 09:01
Salman Butt
Shoaib Malik
Younis Khan
Inzamam
Yousuf Youhana
Abdul Razzaq
Shahid Afridi
Kamran Akmal
Naved Ul Hasan
Mohammed Sami
Ifthikar Anjum

Raz
29th March 2005, 11:45
Salman
Shoaib M/Hafeez
Younis
Inzi
Yoyo
Abdul
Shahid A
Kamran
Rana
Sami
Shahid N

Raz
29th March 2005, 11:49
Are they all day matches or are some day/night matches?

Kashif
29th March 2005, 13:19
Our players will all do well on the flat tracks. Most of them get exposed abroad. wasim I also expect Hafeez to do well.

Pak can only loose this series if they play very badly. I dont see that happening.

Officer Barbrady
29th March 2005, 14:25
I believe they will open with Shoaib Malik.

nedian21
29th March 2005, 15:40
i really hope they play Malik and Danish. almsot everyone has excluded Dani. guys he can be real threat to Indians in the middle over. we can attack with him having slip or silly.

1. Malik
2. Salman
3. YK
4. Inzi
5. Yo Yo
6. Abdul
7. Shahid Afridi
8. Kami
9. Sami
10. Shahid Nazir/ Rana/ Rao (happy with anyone)
11. Kaneria

now someone will argue abt the 6th bowling option. we can do well with 5 proper bowlers and Salman and YK can share some 3-4 overs if needed. in 90s we played with 4 bowlers and 5th part timers now we r scared and want to accomodate 6th bowling option .

BUT i know Bob and Inzi will accomodate useless Hafeez. and they also wont play Danish. so the team for 1st one day wud be:

1. Kami / Hafeez
2. Malik/ Salman
3. YK
4. Inzi
5. Yo Yo
6. Abdul
7. Afridi
8. Hafeez / Kami
9. Sami
10. Rana
11. Rao/ Nazir

161
29th March 2005, 16:44
Farhat not included in the squad- wasn't it reported earlier that he was going to be in ??

Also Hameed was dropped again ??


Strange stuff.

Hameed has been royally screwed since BW joined the team.

Officer Barbrady
29th March 2005, 16:48
Farhat not included in the squad- wasn't it reported earlier that he was going to be in ??

Also Hameed was dropped again ??


Strange stuff.

Hameed has been royally screwed since BW joined the team.

Hameed has not scored a 50 - except once against Bangladesh - since BW tookover. And that's 15 to 20 one day matches. Why is it so surprising to find him dropped?

Besides the selectors dropped him not BW. The issue between the management and selectors is over Farhat and Yasir Arafat not Hameed.

Wiji
29th March 2005, 17:19
All the pitches for the one-dayers are going to flat tracks. It will be players like Afridi, Razzaq, Yuvraj and Sehwag who will make the difference with their explosive batting. I think the main batsman (Inzamam, Youhana, Dravid, Tendulkar) will be very comfortable. Most of the scores will be over 300. It is the sloggers who will make the difference I think.


Remember guys, we have something like a 4 match winning streak against them. It will be pretty cool if that goes up to 10 by the end of this month... ;-)

ugem12
29th March 2005, 19:35
1) Open with Salman & Malik, younis at three and keeping wickets.

2) Open with Salman & Malik, younis at three and malik keeping wickets.

2) Open with Akmal while dropping one from Malik & Younis.

3) Open with Afridi/Malik & play younis at three & Hafeez at 6.

4) Use Salman Butt to bowl some overs as 6th bowler.

Some combination from above or other is to make for better team out, final 11 will not make everyone happy as it is really tough situation, WHAT WILL BE YOUR OPTION FROM ABOVE 5 TO MAKE STRONGER TEAM ??

waquas_uk
29th March 2005, 19:40
option 1

nedian21
29th March 2005, 20:51
option 5 for me (4th in ur list). as u have 2nd twice :) open with Malik and Salman and if needed bowl someovers with Salman or YK. YK at 3. bowlers Sami, Rana/Rao/ Nazir Kaneria and 2 allrounders Afridi and Abdul along with keeper Kami

specialist keeper is a must so options 1 and 2 are useless.

for optoin 3 dropping YK wont happen. He is VC and most importantly he is in amazing form. definitely shd play. malik has thrashed their bowlings recently. he should open with Salman.

there shd be one other option of dropping Salman and open with Hafeez and Malik. it is more likely as Bob and Inzi want 6th bowling option. so in my view there is a tie b/w Salman and Malik for opening spot. and another thing i wnna c is that whether they will play Dani or not

Amjid Javed
29th March 2005, 21:24
some more stats to consider for the series.

indias ODI home record since 2000

played 41 --> won 20 lost 20 N/R 1

V s.africa won 3-2
v zimbabwe won 4-1
V australia lost 2-3
V england drew 3-3
v west indies lost 3-4
tvs cup(n.z & aus) lost 2-4
v pakistan lost 0-1

india havent won any off there last 5 odi series at home...!

also pakistans record in india (played 15 - india wins 4 pak wins 11)

1983/4 - india won 2-0 (2)
1986/7 - pak won 5-1(6)
nehru cup 90 - pak won 1-0(1)
world cup 96 - india won 1-0(1)
Independence Cup 97 - pak won 1-0(1)
pepsi cup 98/99 - pak won 3-0(3)
Jubilee Match 04 - pak won 1-0(1)

pakistan have won last 5 odi clashes in a row between side played in india. india have won just 2 off last 13 played between sides in india.

;)+ ;)+ ;)+ All good signs

Naz
29th March 2005, 21:38
Can pakistan become the first team to score 400 in a one day innings??? It sounds crazy but I can't think of a better oppurtunity than now. Their big hitters are in great form. Afridi has the psychological edge over indians and if he really clicks, he can score a century of 60 odd balls, Inzi as we know can get any run rate he wants and is in the best form of his life, Razzaq is Mr. last 10 overs, Youhana and younis running between the wickets make 1s into 2's, and Kamran Akmal is doing well to. On top of that, indian bowlers were much stronger last year yet still we scored 320+ off them. Wickets flat....list goes on.

Might be too much to ask but who knows??

alghazzali
29th March 2005, 21:45
gud analysis Naz, i thnk that can only happen if we click, but its unlikely cos our opners get slow starts.

tapss
29th March 2005, 22:37
India has been pretty pathetic in ODI's for the last year or so...It would be interesting to see how they go about it..One major factor for the poor performance was that Sehwag was inconsistent in ODI's..But he always does well against Pak and looks in good form.So Ind could still offer a good fight.Pak looks a more balanced side in the ODI's for sure.Its interesting how the roles have changed.Last time when Ind visited Pak,Pak were expeted to win the Test series while Ind were expected to win the ODI's..This time Ind were expected to win the tests while Pak are expected to win the ODI's!!Shows that these two teams epitomise inconsistency and unpredictability.

mumtaz
30th March 2005, 02:16
afridi is not going to open in odi's, bw has said this much on his site and also that malik, yk and hafeez are all going to play. so the most likely team is turning out to be:

akmal
hafeez
malik
yoyo
inzi
yk
razzaq
afridi
sami
rana
rao/kaneria/arshad

i am not sure abt the batting order though, it may be that malik is pushed up to open with akmal with yk coming at 3 and hafeez at 6 but lets see.

pakistani pride
30th March 2005, 02:45
hafeez is a waste

30th March 2005, 06:51
Team should be:

S Butt
K Akmal
Y Khan
I Haq
Y Youhana
S Malik
A Razzaq
S Afridi
M Sami
D Kaneria
S Nazir/ R Naved

30th March 2005, 08:04
that is probably the strongest team we have Hitman. although Malik might just make room for Haffez. its not the best scenario but...

mumtaz
30th March 2005, 09:05
that is probably the strongest team we have Hitman. although Malik might just make room for Haffez. its not the best scenario but...

no chance of malik not playing, in fact he is going to play in the no3 position with yk at 6. hafeez if playing would come in place of butt and open the innings.

30th March 2005, 12:54
that is probably the strongest team we have Hitman. although Malik might just make room for Haffez. its not the best scenario but...

no chance of malik not playing, in fact he is going to play in the no3 position with yk at 6. hafeez if playing would come in place of butt and open the innings.

you have a point Mumtaz. I just think they will use Butt to neutralize pathan. he finds it difficult to bowl to lefties. i guess we are lucky we have such colid reserves now. not only in batting but bowilng as well. atleast as fora s ODI's are concerned!

nedian21
30th March 2005, 14:21
According to Jang today , BW and Inzi has this plan. open with Kami for sure and a tie b/w Hafeez and Salman. Hafeez might get edge. Malik defo playing at number 3. Inzi , Yo Yo, YK, Abdul , Afridi, Sami and Rana , and then a tie b/w Danish / Arshad / Nazir. if spin wkt then Danish/Arshad if not then Nazir.

I am still not convinced with the idea of opening with Kami. Malik and Salman for me , YK at 3 and Abdul at 6 . any they know better than us for sure. we shd just hope and pray that INSHALLAH we thrash them

JhonnyBravo
30th March 2005, 15:44
i think this will be the possible team

1. Salman Butt
2. Shoaib Malik
3. Younis Khan
4. Inzimam ul haq
5. Yousaf Yohana
6. Kamran Akmal
7. Abdur Razzaq
8. Shahid Afridi
9. Mohammad Sami
10. Rana naveed
11. Shahid Nazir OR Rao Iftikhar

I think Kamran Akmal will posibbly open with Salman Butt however there is a possibility of Shoaib Malik opening with Butt ..

--------------------

Kaneria : although he is reatined in ODI squad but i dont think he will play.

ARSHAD : Might be given chance on a turning pitch since he is a slowish off spinner he might kept some batsman quiet but i doubt .... he will get some extra bounce though

Hafeez : Useless

___________________________________

guys plz post your possible team

sy
30th March 2005, 16:30
can woolmer drop s.malik after his recent batting form, his recent batting form against india especially and todays performance?

i hope not, hes in my fantasy cricket team.

bilal
30th March 2005, 16:33
i dont think people are giving Hafeez a fair chance, i think that if he doesnt perform well in this series he should be sent back to the drawing board but we have to play a few times we must give him a fair chance

nedian21
30th March 2005, 16:40
No he wont INSHALLAH. but in order to accommodate his fav Hafeez the axe has to be on Malik or Salman. though both shd play and open wth YK at 6.

Jahangir Khan
30th March 2005, 16:59
I don't think it is worth playing 4 seamers on indian tracks so would definitely include Arshad/Kaneria. I would also consider dropping Butt who I think is lucky to retain his place ahead of Yasir Hameed.

I think the team should be:

Hafeez/Butt
Akmal
YK
Yoyo
Inzi
Malik
Razzaq
Afridi
Rana
Sami
Arshad/Kaneria

Our lower order looks very explosive with 4 six hitters in Malik, Razzaq, Afridi and Rana. I wouldn't open with Afridi because I believe we need a solid start and need to retain wickets until the last 10/15 overs when we can explode.

zulfiqar
30th March 2005, 17:11
Salman
Malik
YK
Inzi
Youhanna
Razzaq
Afridi
Akmal
Rana
Sami
Nazir/Kaneria

This would be my team. If 6th bowling option is a problem, then we need to remove YK and add in a full-time bowler.

MIG
30th March 2005, 17:22
A lot of people say that Arshad is accurate - have a feeling that he may get in at the expense of Kaneria/Nazeer?

Also who in the right mind will now remove the VC ?

Thats where possibly Malik could lose out but then you can say that cos these games will be high scoring - its better to have an extra batman than a bowler. So basically go with 5 bowlers and hope they all do well!! India have the luxury of almost 7 bowlers !

zulfiqar
30th March 2005, 17:58
MIG: I'm totally against removing YK but I don't want to have him in the team in expense of Shoaib Malik. I suggested that team because I DO want YK in the squad, and rather see Pakistan bowl with just the 5 minimum options.

Naz
30th March 2005, 18:02
Malik is really hungry right now and he could be our man of the series if he plays. He has scored BIG off indians before and todays performance was a message to inzi and coach. The one reason why he should edge out yk is that he can step it up like he did against SA and scored 80 off 40 balls. YK however likes to take his time. Close call but i'd play malik for a couple of games and see how it goes.

Hydro
30th March 2005, 18:24
My Team would be :

In Batting Order
Butt
Afridi
Malik
MYK
Inzi
Razzaq
Akmal
Rana
Sami
Nazir

nedian21
30th March 2005, 18:31
hydro u have left Yo Yo. i hope u made a mistake and wanted to include him. Inzi Yo Yo Abdul Afridi and Kamran are sure 101% . unless they are unfit

JhonnyBravo
30th March 2005, 19:52
after todays match i think it would be easy to say that Butt and Malik both will play because there was a rumour that Hafeez is also going to play since since india will be playing with 7 batsman and pakistan need 1 extra spinning option but i think ARSHAD is serious contender for match No 1 however i want to see Nazir back in action ;)

GamBiTT
30th March 2005, 21:14
Butt / Hafeez / YK / Akmal / Afridi
Malik / Hafeez / YK / Akmal / Afridi
YK / Malik / Hafeez
Yoyo
Inzi
Razzaq
Afridi
Akmal
Rana
Sami
Rao / Arshad / Kaneria

Pakistan being really high on confidence will try different permutations of the above team with playing or six bowlers. Most likely they will go with 6 bowlers in the first game, so the bowlers that have bowled extensively in the test matches, can get their bearings right. I personally feel that if we go up on the series, Inzi, Yoyo, and YK will also be rested and the youngsters given more chance to play. I expect tough competition from Indian batsmen, but it remains to be seen how their bowling holds up against us.

pakistani pride
30th March 2005, 23:39
If there was any doubt about malik then its over now play him at 3 !

Drop hafeez. open with afrdi so we can get a sixth bowler......

hasanahmad
31st March 2005, 00:23
Salman Butt
Shoaib Malik
Younis Khan
Yousaf Youhana
Inzamam ul Haq
Shahid Afridi
Abdul Razzaq
Kamran Akmal
Muhammad Sami
Shahid Nazir
Rana Naveed

mumtaz
31st March 2005, 01:27
9 places in the team are locked down, the question is about the remaining 2 places. butt/hafeez or rao/arshad/nazir. i think pakistan are going to go in with hafeez and rao which i think is the right decision.

pakistani pride
31st March 2005, 03:00
i cant understand why so many people over here keep saying that malik shud open ????

HIS PLACE IS NUMBER 3 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND THERE IS NO PLACE FOR YOUNIS IN ODI AT THE MOMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

w4s1m786
31st March 2005, 03:50
my team :

butt
akmal
malik
inzi
younis
youhana
razzaq
afridi
sami
rana
kaneria

Amjid Javed
31st March 2005, 21:22
butt
akmal
malik
inzi
younis
youhana
razzaq
afridi
sami
rana
kaneria or rao or s nazir

Hash
31st March 2005, 21:52
I agree with Amjid's team, though I would have Nazir in contention as well (I presume amjid forgot him). I doubt they will play that team though. I think Hafeez pretty much is guaranteed a place, unfortnuately.

Amjid Javed
31st March 2005, 22:45
hash, id love to see s nazir in team as a 3rd seamer.

he wud do a good honest job for pakistan. good natural swing bowler and reverse swing bowler.. also gives control.

i got feeling thou rao will play as 3rd seamer at start.

mumtaz
31st March 2005, 22:51
i wud say rao is a good new ball bowler and not much thereafter. if he plays, i wud like him to take the new ball with rana with sami as first change.

Amjid Javed
31st March 2005, 23:32
I agree sami shud be 1st change with rana bowling with rao/s nazir 1st up.

pakistani pride
1st April 2005, 02:58
You cant play younis at six cause that is not his position

nedian21
1st April 2005, 04:08
1. Malik
2. Salman
3. YK
4. Inzi
5. Yo Yo
6. Abdul
7. Shahid
8. Kamran
9. Sami
10. Rana
11. Nazir / Danish

Officer Barbrady
1st April 2005, 06:04
Youhana 4 down is a little too late.

Anyhow if YK isn't fit by tomorrow I guess Malik will replace him..

xbox
1st April 2005, 14:06
This will be the team. If Younis Khan is 100%.

1. Kamran Akmal
2. Shoaib Malik
3. Younis Khan/Hafeez
4. Izi
5. Youhana
6. Younis/Hafeez
7. Razzak
8. Afridi
9. Naveed
10. Sami
11. Rao

Bob is going to play with 6 bowlers no matter what. And he ll make sure Shoaib Malik is part of playing 11. (as he should in my opinion)

-xbox

Cricketer
1st April 2005, 15:52
Two Days ago i purchased TV Tunner card i was testing if i can record things .. so this is my 1st try its a Test CLip of Ganguly talking to GEO TV pakistan i decreased the quality for smaller clip check it out
Its a Small 500 KB Clip Have fun. just 24 sec.

http://www.xenithpanacea.com/datawq/Gnaguly.wmv

badxhah
1st April 2005, 17:08
Tests= Pakistan were the underdogs .. they drew the series
ODI=India are the underdogs ..Result will be In india's Favour.
I dont know Wat laws of nature apply but that is always the case.The team which is termed as underdogs always comes out as winner.(Excpet in Aussies Clashes).
Everybody is thinking India will be low and pakistan on a high note and will walk away with the series..well it happens always opposite (still dont know why)
Prbblly the same rule apply When ur team is batting/bowling and not doin well you close the tv..and Bang !! either your team has scored runs or managed to pick up wickets.

nedian21
1st April 2005, 20:43
yar at what time UK the match will start

octavian
2nd April 2005, 08:26
Salman Butt
Shoaib Malik
Younis Khan
Yousaf Youhana
Inzamam ul Haq
Shahid Afridi
Abdul Razzaq
Kamran Akmal
Muhammad Sami
Shahid Nazir
Rana Naveed

this is an excellent team. ;)+

I would play the same team in the same order , presuming that YK is fully fit.

farid1
2nd April 2005, 08:49
cricinfo:




India team:
V Sehwag, SR Tendulkar, *SC Ganguly, R Dravid, Yuvraj Singh,
M Kaif, +MS Dhoni, Harbhajan Singh, L Balaji, Z Khan, A Nehra.

Pakistan team:
+Kamran Akmal, Salman Butt, *Inzamam-ul-Haq, Yousuf Youhana,
Shoaib Malik, Mohammad Hafeez, Abdul Razzaq, Shahid Afridi,
Mohammad Sami, Arshad Khan, Naved-ul-Hasan.


India to bat 1st

Hussain
2nd April 2005, 11:59
India to bat first and Pakistan has to field in this heat

NO doubt this will have its toll on our team and wud be reflected whn we come out to chase Indian total

Sharif
4th April 2005, 01:37
Well u wer right

Saqib
4th April 2005, 12:27
Pakistan should make definet some changes, but infact our batting line up should not be changed just one or 2 players needed to change.

We all have seen that Rana has some batting ability he should be batting one number than Sami infact he should be playing as an allrounder.

What i realy like about Rana when his team realy needs he deliver it. Just like in the Australia ODI series Sami & Sohaib both where injured and ruled out. He took up for himself he played briantly for his team batting and bowling and not to forget his fielding !

My line up

Salman But
Kamran Akmal
Sohaib Malik
Inzamam-Ul-Haq
Yousuf Youhana
Abdur Razzak
Shahid Afridi
Rana Naved Ul Hassan
Mohammed Sami
Danish Kaneria - in place of Arshad Khan
Shahid Nazir - this boy needs chance

tahaqureshi
4th April 2005, 12:51
u want to take out teh leading wicket taker in the pakistan team for this series? thats a sure way to boost his confidence.

Raz
4th April 2005, 13:13
My team should be the same as the first match if Younis isnt fit. Theres no need to make wholesale changes.

Waqar's inswinging yorker
4th April 2005, 17:30
theres no need for any changes, all i would do is open with afridi and send akmal lower down.

Hussain
4th April 2005, 23:31
replace Hafeez for the least
it took him some 20 balls to get off the mark and did nt even score tht big for us to forget this

Shayan
5th April 2005, 02:08
to be honest, Hafeez did pretty well given the situation.

hasanahmad
5th April 2005, 02:48
Indians are technically better batsman even if they dont have the will of the pakistani players. Indians technically adjusted thier game to ODIs. Sehwag played like he did in Tests that was no change and if u look at balls faced and runs scores dravid also played at the same pace as test level. the rest of the batsmen failed just like pakistani batsmen did as they were either new, out of form or are not as technically skilled. Salman Butt and Inzamam were the only 2 players who looked comfortable before perishing to thier own faults. another big factor was that the temperature and humidity when Pakistan were bowling was very very high, you could see it when afridi, the most energetic of all pakistanis couldnt cope with the heat after simply bowling 2 overs, that says alot. With better weather believe me pakistan can easily beat this indian side

161
5th April 2005, 03:15
can BW really afford to play 6 bowling options?
would we be better of if we dropped a bowler and played a specialist batsmen ?

I think this is a very important question in the make up of the squad. Back when Malik was bowling- playing 6 bowlers was a luxury that BW had- but that is not the case anymore. With the way our batting order can and does collapse almost regularly in ODIs we need to stick with just 5 bowlers and play an extra specialist batsmen.

With YK probably out for the second ODI as well, we only have Inzi as an in form and reliable bat. To bring more stability to the line up Asim Kamal needs to play. Yes many people say that he is too slow of a batsmen to play in an ODI. However the one think I have noticed about him is that he very rarely gets out cheaply- he is the perfect guy to be sent into situations where we loose a bunch of quick wickets because he is very calm and steady. He can stay at one side while players like Inzi and Yoyo can score runs from the other knowing that they have someone who will create a good partnership with them.

My message to BW- this unpredictable batting line up needs stability- and you have to sacrifice a bowler to provide it !!

Zeeshan
5th April 2005, 06:48
YK isnt going to play...he is still unfit and especially because of the heat

and why r u guys making malik open? and droping butt some of you? malik isnt to open and afridi will singe in the runs opening

my team:

butt
afrid
malik
inzi
hafeez
yoyo
razzaq
akmal
rana
sami
arshad (why the hll wud u drop him?)

the true passionist
5th April 2005, 07:24
what i really fear is that Butt will be dropped....
which would be pretty dumb to say the least..
it was a decent opening partnership...and we might drop the only specialist opener

Nauman
5th April 2005, 16:43
Well I guess its time to choose team for the next match and I think its time we kick out these bits and pieces players like Mohommad Hafeez and go with specialists. Shahid Nazir and Rao deserve a chance now both were brilliant against India A so here is my side

Salman Butt
Shoaib Malik
Abdul Razzaq
Yousaf Youhanna
Inzimam ul Haq
Shahid Afridi
Kamran Akmal
Shahid Nazir
Rana Naveed ul Hassan
Danisk Kaneria
Rao Iftikhar

Well Shahid Nazir is no muck with the bat and I am hundred percent sure that he can bat better than Mohommad Hafeez so he replaces Hafeez, Danish Kaneria will replace Arshad Khan because even though Arshad Khan has taken some wickets but he has been too expensive and only takes wickets when batsmen are going for slog even Yuvraj takes wickets then. What are your thoughts on this side:-

w4s1m786
5th April 2005, 16:56
we need to make a few changes i wold go for this team:

butt
afridi
malik
inzi
youhana
younis
razzaq
akmal
shaid nazir
kaneria
rana

Adeel786
5th April 2005, 16:57
inzi probably wont play the next match

Rob H
5th April 2005, 16:58
Forget Afridi opening if he plays more slogs across the line

Uzi
5th April 2005, 17:00
Kaneria is a must for the next game.

He can get you a wicket at any stage in the match.

Nawazb
5th April 2005, 17:00
my side

butt
razzaq
yk
yoyo
inzi
kamal
akmal
afridi
s nazir
rana
sami

alghazzali
5th April 2005, 17:00
Get rid of all the ********!! Except Akmal and Rana

w4s1m786
5th April 2005, 17:01
id drop sami coz he has too many chances kno

Amjid Javed
5th April 2005, 17:03
butt
afridi
inzi
yoyo
s malik
a razzaq
akmal
shabbir
akthar
s nazir
kaneria

time to fly out some decent bowlers and send the ***** ones home!

easy
5th April 2005, 17:04
i have a feeling inzy may be banned coz of his on and off field outburst. if he is my team ould be
butt
afridi
razzaq
malik
yoyo
kamal(maybe swap wit afridi)
akmal
sami/shoaib
rana
nazir/shoaib
KANERIA
if inzy not nbanned play him insted of kamal. maybe younis will be fit, then i would drop nazir/shoaib, and tell younis to bowl a it

nedian21
5th April 2005, 17:05
if u r still giving 356 runs then no need for a 6th stupid 3 dimensional player. play 4 specialist bowlers and 2 allrounders.

On Indian wkts , everyone will say that we need more batsman. but in my view if u r chasing such mammoth target even 8 batsman wont help u. kami playing at 8 showed he is a good enough batsman to come at 8. great fight by batsman but we have to do something with out bowling.

my team in batting order (provided YK is unfit ):

1. Salman (though he shd be warned by Inzi and Bob. the shot he played was pathetic at that stage. no need was there. but he is looking in good form MASHALLAH)
2. Afridi (have to persist with him ; will come good)
3. Malik / Abdul
4. Inzi
5. Yo Yo
6. Abdul / Malik
7. Kami
8. Sami
9. Rana
10. Shahid Nazir (better than hafeez for sure and Sami and Rana can play quite well
11. Kaneria (plz play him. i m saying right from the beginning. we need a wicket taking bowler in the middle overs)

if YK is fit we have to drop Salman or Malik.

nedian21
5th April 2005, 17:07
1. Salman (though he shd be warned by Inzi and Bob. the shot he played was pathetic at that stage. no need was there. but he is looking in good form MASHALLAH)
2. Afridi (have to persist with him ; will come good)
3. Malik / Abdul
4. Inzi
5. Yo Yo
6. Abdul / Malik
7. Kami
8. Sami
9. Rana
10. Shahid Nazir (better than hafeez for sure and Sami and Rana can play quite well
11. Kaneria (plz play him. i m saying right from the beginning. we need a wicket taking bowler in the middle overs)

5th April 2005, 17:09
Butt
Akmal
Younis
Inzi
Youhana
Malik
Razzaq
Afridi
Sami
Rana
Kaneria

tahaqureshi
5th April 2005, 17:17
my team for 3rd odi:

S Butt
K Akmal
A Kamal (We need a lefty to play against tendy)
I Haq (If banned then Y Khan)
Y Yousuf
A Razzaq
M Hafeez
S Nazir
R Naveed
M Sami
D Kaneria

suhaib
5th April 2005, 17:18
butt
malik
y. khan
inzi
yoyo
razzak
afridi
akmal
sami
rana
kaneria/nazir

Hash
5th April 2005, 17:29
Salman Butt- has looked brilliant in both his innings but given his wicket away both times as well. Needs to learn that there is a time and a place to go for the shot he did today (in the park playing with your friends on sunday afternoon). But he has looked brilliant and I can sense a big score. Keep him on.

Kamran Akmal- go back to opening with him. He had a good innings today and inshallah we wont be chasing such a big total again so no need for the hit and miss of Shahid bhai.


Younis Khan/Shoaib Malik- If Khan saab is fit put him in otherwise persist with Malik who also looked quite good until he got out


Inzamam- I seriously think we would have won if he hadn't got run out.


Youhana- obvious


Razzaq- batted well for his 88. More of the same please Rizzy.


Afridi- hit and miss


Rana- if it wasn't for him we might well have been chasing 400. Decent batsman too......no idea what happened to him today


Sami- obvious choice.


Hafeez- quite close to being a disgrace to the green but we need the sixth bowler in the humidity and heat.


Kaneria- leg spinner is a must

Rob H
5th April 2005, 18:47
Drop malik then if YK is bk

Fawad
5th April 2005, 18:52
First of all i would like to say that Razzaq today played a great innings, Akmal also impressed with the bat.
Now, Razzaq as we all know is weak against the spinners so i think it's better if he opens or bats at no.3 in this series, when the ball is hard and pacers are on.

What do you guys think?

Rob H
5th April 2005, 18:53
Yeh Razzaq for 3.

Hash
5th April 2005, 18:54
if Khan saab is back then bring him in for Malik bhai


Butt- looks in excellent touch but keeps throwing his wicket. Will score big.
Akmal- batted v well today. I think we need to persist with him at 2.
Khan Saab- will be a boost to have him back for sure!
Inzi- looked v determined and strong until run out today
Youhana- excellent innings with v little support
Razzaq- batted well today! Keep it up Rizzy
Afridi- ummm......your better off here mate
Rana- if it wasn't for him we'd be chasing 400. Decent batsman.
Sami-came back well in 2nd spell today
Nazir/Arshad- Arshad gives away runs but gets wickets. Need to contain!
Kaneria- we need a specialist spinner who is actually good.

There is my team for 3rd ODI.

Waqar's inswinging yorker
5th April 2005, 18:54
i agree or just have 5 bowlers - and put that extra responsiblity on those 5 i.e. s nazir,rana,sami,afridi, razzaq

Hooker
5th April 2005, 19:00
There should be no need for Afridi to open or Razzaq to come in at three a hundred left of ten with afridi razzaq and kamal to come would have been possible.

Our batsmen should have been able to do the job of getting a flyer on such a pitch as salman was showing yoyo should have gone in at three and someone outside the squad should have opened PLEASE DROP HAFEEZ HE CANT BAT OR BOWL , GOOD FIELDER THOUGH. That would have been the plan on such a pitch.

We need a partner for Butt as it is holding him back aswell not having a stablle partner to gain an understanding with and learn from im sure he'd have progressed even more if had Des Haynes or Anwar to learn from.


Any Thoughts

shikari
5th April 2005, 20:29
I really think Rao or Shahid will be a better option to attack the bowling. Someone with less pace and more swing or variety. That is the only way to get Sehwag out. I think Virender has totally figured out Sami and he really toys with his balling. Rao had some good things going for him in Australia and he managed to trouble some frontline batters there.

pakdesi
5th April 2005, 20:42
i felt they should av let akmal and butt open today and let afridi come one down if needed

krazy--dude
5th April 2005, 22:49
so we lost the second ODI and now we are looking at a series defeat we really need to change the look of our team

Here is what I would select for third ODI

Butt-->is in awsome form but just gets the hunger to go for the big one and gets caught (did u guyz see his fours today)
Akmal-->playing well and needs to open and not afridi
Younis-->if not fit replace with kamal and if kamals not fir then malik
Inzi-->needs to get his frustration out of the way
razzaq-->can play up the order and we need to split up inzi and youhana
youhana-->job as finisher (saw some majestic sixes today)
Afridi-->has to get back to form
rana
sami-->needs to get his form back
nazeer-->he should definetely replace hafeez
Danish-->we need a wicket-taking spinner

basically akmal goes back to open and afridi down the order to give some punch to lower order...

in the pacers sami, rana and nazeer should play...nazeer shoudl replace hafeez who is just crap

arshad should definetely be replaced by danish...we need wicket takers

for the one down position we have younis, asim, malik

i heard that younis might not be fit and asim has an infection so it looks like malik will be playing

kayanni
5th April 2005, 22:53
Sami should be dropped and replaced with Nazir and Hafeez replaced by a batsman.

In India it is batting which will ODI's not the bowling.

Quite frankly our bowling will concede 300 runs per game in this series so if we bolster the batting we have a chance.

adi 101
5th April 2005, 22:54
shoaib and shabbir should be called back

the true passionist
5th April 2005, 23:21
Butt
Afridi
Inzi
YKhan/Kamal
Yoyo
Malik
Akmal
Razaq
Kaneria
Rana
Rao/ Shabbir/ Nazir (Sami should be rested not dropped)

Jahangir Khan
6th April 2005, 02:42
We would be stupid to play 4 pacers on these flat tracks so we definitely need 2/3 spinners. I think Afridi showed today why he shouldn't open the innings. He should look at the way Sehwag and Dhoni played and learn some lessons. I think Malik also deserves to be dropped from the side. I agree with Razzaq at 3 because of his poor technique against spin so my lineup would probably be:

Butt
Hafeez
Razzaq
Inzi
Youhana
YK/Asim
Akmal
Afridi
Rana
Sami
Kaneria/Arshad

This lineup would mean that we have very good players of spin in the middle order whilst having the weaker players of spin at the top of the order. The way he played today, Razzaq could also be considered as an opener. I think we saw today why we need a 6th bowler so Hafeez will have to be retained unless YK or Butt make major improvements to their bowling.

Bailan
6th April 2005, 08:02
Pigs are more likely to succed in achieving Flight, then Pakistan winning a game with the Multi-dimentional hafeez in the side

so whatever the team be, lets keep hafeez out of it.

as a matter of fact, even drop him from the squad for a good omen.

omidahomie
6th April 2005, 12:17
I wud make 2 changes to the side fo the 3rd game. Sami shud be dropped for roa iftikhar. Sami is to **** in odi, and i belive roa iftikhar will do a good job, he is less wayward then sami for sure. and i think arshad khan should go for danish kaneria.

161
6th April 2005, 12:35
we need to completely change our bowling-

rana and razaq stay

sami replaced by nazir
arshad replaced by danish
hafeez replaced by rao

afridi dropped (don't wan't to see him go for 10 an over)

line up should be

1. butt
2. razzaq
3. malik
4. inzi
5. yoyo
6. yk
7. akmal
8. rana
9. rao
10. danish
11. nazir

Nauman
6th April 2005, 13:42
we need to completely change our bowling-

rana and razaq stay

sami replaced by nazir
arshad replaced by danish
hafeez replaced by rao

afridi dropped (don't wan't to see him go for 10 an over)

line up should be

1. butt
2. razzaq
3. malik
4. inzi
5. yoyo
6. yk
7. akmal
8. rana
9. rao
10. danish
11. nazir

You are just kicking out Afridi because he had one bad day, remember he was phenominal in Australia so he should not be penalized for having just one bad day and also remember his bowling in the test matches, the problem is that Inzi does not know what type of field to set for Afridi when Dravid is batting and Dravid is the main threat to Afridi apart from Dravid Afridi has been very effective against all Indian batsmen.

Amjid Javed
6th April 2005, 13:50
butt
razzaq
inzi
kamal
yoyo
malik
akmal
afridi
s nazir
rana
kaneria

Muddaser
6th April 2005, 13:53
Salman Butt
Shoaib Malik
Younis Khan
Inzamam
Yousuf Youhana
Abdul Razzaq
Shahid Afridi
Kamran Akmal
Mohammed Sami
Naved Ul Hasan
Shahid Nazir

161
6th April 2005, 13:54
we need to completely change our bowling-

rana and razaq stay

sami replaced by nazir
arshad replaced by danish
hafeez replaced by rao

afridi dropped (don't wan't to see him go for 10 an over)

line up should be

1. butt
2. razzaq
3. malik
4. inzi
5. yoyo
6. yk
7. akmal
8. rana
9. rao
10. danish
11. nazir

You are just kicking out Afridi because he had one bad day, remember he was phenominal in Australia so he should not be penalized for having just one bad day and also remember his bowling in the test matches, the problem is that Inzi does not know what type of field to set for Afridi when Dravid is batting and Dravid is the main threat to Afridi apart from Dravid Afridi has been very effective against all Indian batsmen.


not one bad day- indian batsmen have him completly figured out - i dont see him being able to bowl effectively again this series, especially on these flat wickets against an in form sehwag, dravid and dhoni.

BW needs to make the right decision- its ok to drop even a star like afridi if he is not effective in the current circumstances- look at India dropping Pathan, or even Aus dropping Hayden in the finals of VB.

Hussain
6th April 2005, 17:20
bring in Kamal in place of Malik u need a left hander on this tour

AFRIDI 10
6th April 2005, 17:43
I think the team and batting line up should remain the same as the 2nd ODI. We scored 300 runs batting second and if it werent for some irrational shots(Afridi, Butt, Yoyo), we i think were on coarse on winning that game where india had scored a massive 357. Hopefully Afridi will play better than he did in the last ODI.
Come on Afridi

Sami for Captain
6th April 2005, 17:59
agreed with afridi10, but i thonk kaneria should come in for arshad. and maybe younis khan for malik but i am not keen on that but younis is in incredible form, and we mayhave to cash in on it.

yawar
6th April 2005, 18:25
my team for the 3rd odi

salman butt
shahid afridi
abdul razzaq
inzamam ul haq
yousuf youhana
younis khan (s.malik if ykhan not fit)
kamran akmal
rana naveed
arshad khan
shahid nazir
danish kaneria

Lightning
7th April 2005, 04:57
Yawar, that is the perfect squad. Damn pakistan cricket and their big egos! It's just not a pakistan v india match without Shoaib. He brings life to the game. *Sigh*

Muddy, you've got 4 pacers and only 1 seamer! Surely we need kaneria in there.

Dhondy
7th April 2005, 16:03
http://www.htcricket.com/htcricket/7679_1310548,001600980007.htm

Muddaser
7th April 2005, 16:07
So this is the likely team.

Salman Butt
Shahid Afridi
Shoaib Malik
Inzamam
Yousuf Youhana
Younis Khan
Abdul Razzaq
Kamran Akmal
Rao Iftikhar
Rana Naveed
Danish Kaneria

Looks good to me! :)

Hopefully we will see Shahid Nazir given a chance too.

Hash
7th April 2005, 16:08
interesting.

so he seems to be hinting at

Butt
Afridi
Malik/Razzaq (depending on situation)
Inzi
Youhana
Younis
Malik/Razzaq
Kamran
Rana
Rao
Kaneria

----------------------
FIVE bowlers? FIVE? Am I reading that correctly? Have the Woolmer bashers finally got their own way? Well.....let's see if it works. It is going to be very hot and humid. I suppose Younis Khan can chip in a couple.....so can Butt.

entralinks
7th April 2005, 16:16
Sami dropped! Mona, time for party? :)

Pizza ordered: Shoaibeef PineAkhter Pizza with toppings Hamstring and No-Ball.

Waqar's inswinging yorker
7th April 2005, 16:21
nice sides

Rob H
7th April 2005, 16:30
Glad to se Rao might be given a go

Sami for Captain
7th April 2005, 16:33
i know you guys hate sami beig in the side but please change te thread name as he is rested not dopped and i tyhink it is a briolliant decision by bob adnwe weill win the last3 games of the series due to sami's performances.
SAMI ZINDABAD

badxhah
7th April 2005, 16:37
1.Salman Booty ( sorry Butt)
2.Kammy
3.MYK (if fit)
4.Inzy
5.yoyo
6.Malik
7.Razzar
8.Afridi
9.Nazir
10.Rana
11.DKNY

badxhah
7th April 2005, 16:39
Roa was good in Aus conditions i think nazir shud be given a go here.
Well Shewag at this moment can hit anyone out of the park.Shud try nazir instead of Roa.

Hash
7th April 2005, 16:45
well why would Nazir be any better than Rao?

Karachi King
7th April 2005, 16:46
interesting thing is that after having such a big totals as a targets in the previous 2 ODIs, they are making such a brave decision to leave out the 6th bowler on Indian pitches against the likes of Sehwag, Dhoni & Sachin (if he clicks, will make the life hell).

lets see if this works or not.

Aneel

Hash
7th April 2005, 16:49
karachi king- many of the woolmer bashers have been criticising him for insisting on a 6th bowler.

If he plays five and India blast another huge total......I can see them all changing tact and saying 'woolmer idiot, should have played 6 bla bla bla'

Hussain
7th April 2005, 16:52
Rao in an all important 3rd game with no experience of playing against India before

Sami for Captain
7th April 2005, 16:59
has this team been confird by noddy bhai. surely if inzy said it, the team should already know. i will not believe the selection untill noddy bhai confirms.

Hussain
7th April 2005, 17:11
i dont think tht the team wud be finalised so early as we still have some 2 more days before the game starts

Karachi King
7th April 2005, 17:33
karachi king- many of the woolmer bashers have been criticising him for insisting on a 6th bowler.

If he plays five and India blast another huge total......I can see them all changing tact and saying 'woolmer idiot, should have played 6 bla bla bla'

Hash!!! no matter if it works or not, let me tell you that i am against it from the beginning. Indian pitches are going to be supportive for the batsmen & Indians have some inform batsmen who can blst our current bowling attack any day. we need some support for them & give them some space to breath. it will be horrible to see any of our bowlers being trashed all over the park & then we go for Butt or YK (who have not been bowling for quite some time).

'it will work or not', is the matter to be decided on saturday but i am raising my hand against this decision.

Aneel

pakistani pride
7th April 2005, 17:38
I dont care wether we play 5 or 6 bowlers as i still feel confident we can win series!

but younis at six is not the right place in odis for him so instead we can pick an extra bowler.

Good to see sami rested he played all 3 tests and also the 2 one dayers it can get to much !

zorawar
7th April 2005, 17:40
ODIs in India are always going to be a batsmen competition.... Yes it is stupid to play 6 bowlers if you are sacrificing a specialist batsman.

India piled huge totals against 6 bowlers....so if they do so against 5 bowlers it won't mean the strategy failed.... How we bat is the gauge if we needed that extra specialist batsman or not...

zorawar
7th April 2005, 17:51
But playing Kaneria and dropping Hafeez and Sami...I dunno man... it seems to be too much tilt on the other side now.

I would have Rana, Razzaq, Sami, Afridi, Arshad/Hafeez as the 5 bowlers

Butt, Akmal, Malik, Inzi, Youhana, Younus can be our top order with the 5 bowlers giving us batting till #8 with Rana, Sami and Hafeez all capable of batting as well.

suhaib
7th April 2005, 17:52
htcricket is the worstest site ever, dnt belive them

Jahangir Khan
7th April 2005, 17:56
I don't think I would agree with playing Rao in such an important game but I would keep Razzaq at 3 for his better technique against the pacers. I'm not too sure about Afridi opening the innings but he should have learnt his lesson from the 2nd game and will hopefully succeed this time around.

Considering our unpredictable bowling, it is a big gamble to play five bowlers. I think maybe Malik should have been dropped instead of Hafeez beacuse at least Hafeez can bowl and can also stick around with the bat as he did in the 1st game.

We have seen India succeed with the use of 3 or 4 spinners on these tracks so maybe we are making a mistake by only playing 2 spinners.

Pakistan also need to win the toss to gain an advantage as India have been doing so far. For them, Sehwag and Dravid are key players and Dhoni has shown that he can be dangerous aswell.

Pathan might also return so Afridi will be licking his lips.

Karachi King
7th April 2005, 18:11
suhaibonline!!!! they actually quoted Inzi. i don't think they (or any other site) can quote someone like this. although if they wanted to make up stories then they can come up with a famous name "soucres."

Aneel

Nauman
7th April 2005, 18:18
Aneel they have been conceeding high totals with 6 bowlers surely it wouldnt be any worse with 5 bowlers and its not like our sixth bowler has been help full at all, if 5 cant bowl properly what makes you think that the sixth one will do the job for Pakistan, it is very rare that the 6th bowler wins you matches.

Hashim
7th April 2005, 18:22
[/QUOTE]This is a joke and the biggest mistake yet made by the Pakistan selecters, Sami is one of the best fast bowlers in the wirld. He can easily bowl in excess of 90mph, thats rapid, and he can swing the ball, and he has good fast bouncers. This is a joke resting him when we are already losing 2-0.[/QUOTE]

So what, bowling 90mph is no big deal if you cannot trouble the batsmen with it, he has been bowling crap with exception of a good spell or two. He is looking flat and is by no means one of the best fast bowlers in the world you are abusing the likes of McGrath, Gellespie and Lee by putting Sami in their category. Best bowlers take wickets they dont complain about luck.

MWH
7th April 2005, 19:01
Best thing to come out of this news (if true) is that the management appears to have come to terms with the fact that we can do without the " indispensable 6th bowler" Hafeez.

I think YK/Butt will be given a few overs in the next game, and the idea should be to try and develop their bowling rather than play a 6th bowler for the heck of it.

Karachi King
7th April 2005, 19:02
Aneel they have been conceeding high totals with 6 bowlers surely it wouldnt be any worse with 5 bowlers and its not like our sixth bowler has been help full at all, if 5 cant bowl properly what makes you think that the sixth one will do the job for Pakistan, it is very rare that the 6th bowler wins you matches.

Nauman!!!! when one of your bowler is low in confidence because of the runs he has conceeded then asking him to bowl his full qouta of 10 overs is extreamely dangerous. more runs over him will completely destroy him. 6th bowler atleast provide some space to the bowler that if someone is not feeling well, or injured or have conceeded sooooo many runs then he don't need to bowl 10 overs, he can curtail them to as much as a captain & himself is comfortable with. i am not saying 6th bowler alone can win you matches but 6th bowler definitely lessen the pressure from the specialists. remember Sehwag goes after every almost bowler (& he is in very good form as well), imagine our 3 or 4 bowlers being smashed all over the park, would you keep bringing them back??? or you would like to change the tempo of the game & bring in some non-regulars??? part-timers also save the energy & overs of the strike bowlers to take on the batting side in the last few overs. they can also chip in with few useful wickets.

part-timers are always useful to break the tempo & can be used to give some time to our main bowlers to regain some breath & gather themselves & then come in with more efforts.

Aneel

Hash
7th April 2005, 19:26
Best thing to come out of this news (if true) is that the management appears to have come to terms with the fact that we can do without the " indispensable 6th bowler" Hafeez.


NO HAFEEZ!!!!!!

\A/ \A/ \A/ \A/ \A/ \A/ \A/ \A/ \A/ \A/

Someone posted here the results in recent games that Hafeez has played and we have only won like 1 out of the last 10 games he has played in. He clearly isn't a positive influence on the side. Keep him away from Pakistan cricket for good now please.

Hashim
7th April 2005, 19:30
I dont care what everywere says, not playing sami is a BIG mistake. This could cost us the series!

Sheikh_Ji
7th April 2005, 19:34
going in with only 5 bowlers....is very very risky...especially in hot and humid conditions in India...plus the absolute battin paradises

Although im not a Hafeez fan...he is an effective ODI bowler. Until Malik's action is not cleared.....stick with Hafeez

Hash
7th April 2005, 19:37
what advantage has the sixth bowler given us so far? None.

I don't think it could get any worse. It gives us the opportunity to put in an extra batsman in the batting paradises of India. If worst comes to worst then we just need 3 or 4 overs from somewhere. Younis and BUtt can do that. They are an unknown entity for the Indian batsman which might just bring about a bad shot.

MIG
7th April 2005, 19:48
Guys I will merge this onto the main thread on the top of the page.... pls continue discussion there.

zorawar
7th April 2005, 19:59
The people who say argue for 6 bowlers forget that we play the 6th bowler at the expense of a SPECIALIST BATSMAN!!

sure it is easy to say we need 6 bowlers... hell why not 7 bowlers while we are at it...

You have to look at what you are losing and what you are gaining with a selection.... then make the decision...

The only way to play a 6th bowler (now that Younus is fit) would be to drop Malik, Butt or keep Younus out.

Who on this forum can justify dropping any one of the above in such high scoring games and batting friendly conditions???

MIG
7th April 2005, 20:12
Tell you the truth - one inspired selection like Kaneria who can bowl his overs for less than 4/over will be enough for a team with 5 batsman .

The fielding has to be top notch and Inzi needs to keep his cool.

In the 2nd ODI , it almost appeared that he lost interest in the proceedings - instead he just told himself that he would win the game for Pak - hence his reaction on being run out !

Rob H
7th April 2005, 20:50
Excellent point MIG. A pair of fresh legs like Danish could be a boost in the bowling department.

Lightning
7th April 2005, 22:11
If this is the squad, I think it is excellent selection. Now the only thing that would make it perfect is the firepower of the one and only Shoaib. Also, I think razzaq should stay at 3. Reason? He plays pace very well but has no clue gainst spin. On the other hand malik and younis play spin well, hence they should come lower down the order.
It's all about getting the best from your resources.

Amir_rulez
7th April 2005, 22:29
Go to this page:

http://www.htcricket.com/htcricket/7679_1310548,001600980007.htm

Points to be noted:

1) Sami to be replaced by Ifhtikhar Rao..good idea or bad idea?
2) Arshad being replaced By kaneria
3) Hafeez being replaced by Younis.
4) Younis to be played at # 5 or 6

Amir_rulez
7th April 2005, 22:29
My opinion:
1) Bad idea...if u realy want to replcae him..try Shahid Nazir.
2) Good idea.
3) Very Good. ( I believe Aamir Sohail, pro Hafeez, wont be too happy abt it)
4) Bad idea. He is in good form. make most use of it. Y waste him? Shud be sent 1 down or 2 down.
Furthermore, He backs up his partners during his stay on crease.

Sami for Captain
7th April 2005, 22:31
sami will play. i thinks its very doubtful that the team will be finaised just 2days after the 2nd match.
sami zindabad

Amir_rulez
7th April 2005, 22:33
Sami for captain? lol
Ap kis team ki baat kar rahe hain jiska Sami captain bane ga?

AsimL8
7th April 2005, 22:38
good changes. Rao might provide the answer to Shewag, being an out swing bowler. As long as he keeps it slightly short of lenght and Inzi gives him 2-3 slips, gully, point and thridman.

Younis's strenght is taking singles, he should come in the middle overs and ideally paired with Malik and Youhana.

Khalil
7th April 2005, 22:40
1) Good idea.
2) Good idea
3) Fabulous!
4) Bad. Younis should open with Butt or come in at number 3

Master-P
7th April 2005, 22:43
What has hafeez done wrong that the rest of pakistan players aint done that he should get kicked out? Infact shoaib malik has played worse then him yet no one complains about him.

Sami for Captain
7th April 2005, 22:45
coz malik has performed for pakistan in the past and probably will intthe future

merabhai
7th April 2005, 22:48
What has hafeez done wrong that the rest of pakistan players aint done that he should get kicked out? Infact shoaib malik has played worse then him yet no one complains about him.

i agree with u master-p on hafeez,he looks like a solid batsman and a decent bowler .better than kaneria in one dayers for sure.

Amir_rulez
7th April 2005, 22:51
Some Statistics:

Iftikhar Rao:
International:

O M R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Ec 64 4 329 6 54.83 2-67 0 0 64.0 5.14

First Class:
O R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Ec
2025 6547 287 22.81 7-59 20 3 42.3 3.23



Shahid Nazir
International:
O R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Ec
135 649 19 34.15 3-14 0 0 42.6 4.80

First Class
O R W Ave BBI 4w 5w SR Ec
2303 7012 349 20.09 7-39 18 1 39.6 3.04

Shaid Nazir looks more established bowler & has better record to back him. I wud want him to be given a chance.

Daoud
7th April 2005, 22:58
Shoib malik has been consistant in the past. Yonis should be opening or at 3 but afridi should be there at the slog overs not opening. Sami should still play cause hes shown some improvment.

MIG
7th April 2005, 22:58
I will merge this thread with one on top ...

Amir_rulez
7th April 2005, 23:08
alright MIG.... no big deal.

zorawar
7th April 2005, 23:09
Opening:
We should have Butt and Akmal open in ALL games... They were looking ok in the 1st ODI... We should continue with them. Both Akmal and Butt have the correct techniques to handle Indian pacers as long as they make good shot selection and not get overly aggressive just cuz Sehwag is blasting it for the other team at the opening slot.

Settling Afridi in the lower order was one of Bob's major acheivements... he is going back on it just due to the hype and pressure always associated with Afridi when he scores some runs... bad move ! He is always a hit or miss batsman and better suited for lower order.

One Down:
Shoaib Malik should be persisted at this slot for the rest of the series. Bob again rolling back one of his main strategic moves for the Pak ODI team. He made Yasir an opener and changed things around just to accomodate Malik at #3 and he was justifying this move by his excellent performances in 2004. Now he is not persisted at this slot and there is a decline in his performance for this very reason.

#4, #5, #6
I believe Inzi, Youhana and Younus can all be shuffled between these 3 slots depending on the match situations. If we lose the top order quickly, perhaps the solid Younus can be sent to stabilize things and if we get a good start, Inzi or youhana can come and play their strokes with the security of Younus after them

All Rounders in Lower Order:
Razzaq and Afridi are the best people for these slots and if need be, can be promoted ahead of Younus if the innings is in the last 10 overs.

Bowlers
We should simply have a 5 man attack in Sami, Rana, Razzaq, Afridi and a 5th bowler can be picked from Hafeez/Arshad or Kaneria. I would favor one of the off spinners as Kaneria would be risky as the 5th bowler in the ODI format.

So look at the team:

Open: Butt and Akmal
One down: Malik
Middle Order: Inzi, Youhana and Younus
Lower Order: Razzaq and Afridi
Tail: Hafeez/Arshad, Rana, Sami

With this batting order we are capable of chasing or scoring 300-325 any day even if we have semi-collapses and this is what we need to win the ODIs in India.

The 6th bowler takes away this ability as you have to drop a specialist batsman who can contribute the extra 50 runs needed on Indian pitches.

Amir_rulez
7th April 2005, 23:13
Butt
Malik
Younis
Inzi
Youhana
A razzaq
Afridi
Akmal
Rana
Iftikhar
Kaneria

Amir_rulez
7th April 2005, 23:14
A razzaq can be sent as an opener ...depending on the situation.

MIG
7th April 2005, 23:14
Zorawar - there is a thread on the TOP of this page for this purpose - pls repost in there - thanks!

zorawar
7th April 2005, 23:19
Opening:
We should have Butt and Akmal open in ALL games... They were looking ok in the 1st ODI... We should continue with them. Both Akmal and Butt have the correct techniques to handle Indian pacers as long as they make good shot selection and not get overly aggressive just cuz Sehwag is blasting it for the other team at the opening slot.

Settling Afridi in the lower order was one of Bob's major acheivements... he is going back on it just due to the hype and pressure always associated with Afridi when he scores some runs... bad move ! He is always a hit or miss batsman and better suited for lower order.

One Down:
Shoaib Malik should be persisted at this slot for the rest of the series. Bob again rolling back one of his main strategic moves for the Pak ODI team. He made Yasir an opener and changed things around just to accomodate Malik at #3 and he was justifying this move by his excellent performances in 2004. Now he is not persisted at this slot and there is a decline in his performance for this very reason.

#4, #5, #6
I believe Inzi, Youhana and Younus can all be shuffled between these 3 slots depending on the match situations. If we lose the top order quickly, perhaps the solid Younus can be sent to stabilize things and if we get a good start, Inzi or youhana can come and play their strokes with the security of Younus after them

All Rounders in Lower Order:
Razzaq and Afridi are the best people for these slots and if need be, can be promoted ahead of Younus if the innings is in the last 10 overs.

Bowlers
We should simply have a 5 man attack in Sami, Rana, Razzaq, Afridi and a 5th bowler can be picked from Hafeez/Arshad or Kaneria. I would favor one of the off spinners as Kaneria would be risky as the 5th bowler in the ODI format.

So look at the team:

Open: Butt and Akmal
One down: Malik
Middle Order: Inzi, Youhana and Younus
Lower Order: Razzaq and Afridi
Tail: Hafeez/Arshad, Rana, Sami

With this batting order we are capable of chasing or scoring 300-325 any day even if we have semi-collapses and this is what we need to win the ODIs in India.

The 6th bowler takes away this ability as you have to drop a specialist batsman who can contribute the extra 50 runs needed on Indian pitches.

MIG
7th April 2005, 23:21
Good post - well thought out !

Do you not think that Afridis position should change depending on us chasing or setting a target ?

zorawar
7th April 2005, 23:29
MIG sending Afridi at the top has always been a temptation for Pakistan captains... yeah if he clicks why won't you want 100 runs in 12 overs...

But if you look at the ratio of how many times he actually clicks versus the usual quick loss of wicket which puts the rest of betsmen in unneccessary pressure, this move does not really benefit us, specially when we are in a must win situation.

With Afridi and Razzaq in lower order, we were getting good at chasing big totals and scoring well in the middle and last overs.

Bottom Line: When chasing a HUGE total, if we manage to score at close to run a ball for the first 30-35 odd overs with our specialist batsmen. Afridi, Razzaq and the lower order waiting in the wings will win us more games than not.

Succumbing to the pressure of the total and sending Afridi at the top to me is a desperate move.

MIG
7th April 2005, 23:32
And I notice you believe in Sami as well ? Why is that ? From what I hear, he may be rested tomorrow

Cartman
7th April 2005, 23:33
I am batting for Razzaq to come 1-down. I think that position would work wonders for us. Afridi should bat down.
This would be my team

Butt
Akmal
Razzaq
Malik
Inzi
Youhana
Younis
Afridi
Rana
Sami
Kaneria

zorawar
7th April 2005, 23:41
Cartman Younus is wasted at #7....
Might as well go with Hafeez then....

MIG:
I don't neccessarily believe in Sami. Just prefer to play him over the other options we have available. Resting him does not make sense to me when we are 0-2 and should be going in with all we have got...

There was 3 day break and a cancelled practice session... Sami should not be awfully tired as far as I can see...

Cartman
7th April 2005, 23:46
I would really like to see him bat at 1-down or 4 down. Maybe they should try him since Malik has not been scoring much. But if not, he should not play. Which would sound odd since he is vice captain. Maybe we need another genuine pacer. People disagree but I still believe a good line and length pace bowler can still unsettle Indians on batting tracks.

zorawar
7th April 2005, 23:50
Cartman... what I am trying to say is it is batting strategy that will win you ODIs in India... why will you drop the most in form batsman we have?

If you bowl well, you will restrict India to 260-275, if you bowl bad they will make 350...

You still will need to come up with a big score on your turn...

Stop worrying about bowling and tell the 5 bowlers you are the ones that have to carry the burden.

We have to take a batsman-centric approach to win these games. Once on the right track the same bowlers will become more effective you will see.

Awesome Anjum
8th April 2005, 00:01
Pakistan will make three changes for the third One-Day International against India to be played at Jamshedpur on Saturday.

Pakistan, who trail 0-2 in the six-match series, have decided to drop paceman Mohammad Sami, off-spinner Arshad Khan and all-rounder Mohammad Hafeez.

"The three will be replaced by wrist spinner Danish Kaneria , fast bowler Rao Iftikhar Anjum and middle-order batsman Younis Khan ," Pakistani captain Inzamam-ul-Haq said.

The Pakistani skipper said Sami was being rested because of the tough playing conditions while Younis Khan was an automatic selection after he recovered from viral fever that kept him away from the first two games.

Regarding Arshad Khan, who has taken six wickets in two games, Inzamam said the strategy of playing a finger spinner was not working for Pakistan.

"We want someone who can bowl in the middle of the innings. Besides, Danish is a specialist wrist spinner who has the ability to take wickets. We want someone who cannot only bowl in the middle of the innings but can also get wickets for us," he said.

Kaneria has so far played 10-one-dayers in which he has taken nine wickets at 42.44.

Inzamam said Shahid Khan Afridi would continue to open the innings because the wickets suit his style of batting and that he can be more destructive on top of the order.

Sami, who has struggled to find the form and rhythm that until 18 months ago earned him the reputation as one of the most promising fast bowlers, had figures of 8-0-42-0 and 9-0-65-1 in the first two one-dayers.

He has picked up 99 wickets at 27.89 in 68 one-dayers but his career best five for 10 was 15 months and 29 games ago when he carpeted New Zealand at the Gaddafi Stadium. In the last 20 one-dayers, he has taken 22 wickets.

Inzamam hoped Younis Khan's return would provide Pakistan the stability and depth that lacked in the first two games.

"He is a man in form and I feel that had our top order lasted 50 overs, we would have won both the games. I hope Younis's return would give us a more experienced middle-order.

"I don't think Younis will bat at number 3 and we will persist with either Abdul Razzaq or Shoaib Malik, depending on the situation. Younis will bat at number 5 or 6," Inzamam said.

Younis was undoubtedly the player of the three-Test series with 424 runs at 84.80 that included a career-best 267 at Bangalore.

161
8th April 2005, 00:07
shahid nazir bowled very well in the practice game we had- I think he should play in place of afridi for the remainder of the series. IMO the indian batsmen have afridis bowling completly figured out and he will continue to go for lots of runs.

Amir_rulez
8th April 2005, 00:07
TOI:
"If Inzamam is fined, his penalties will rise to nearly Rs 18 lakh since taking over the most pressurised job in Pakistan sports from Rashid Latif in October 2003"
Thats interesting !

Cartman
8th April 2005, 00:18
Cartman... what I am trying to say is it is batting strategy that will win you ODIs in India... why will you drop the most in form batsman we have?

If you bowl well, you will restrict India to 260-275, if you bowl bad they will make 350...

You still will need to come up with a big score on your turn...

Stop worrying about bowling and tell the 5 bowlers you are the ones that have to carry the burden.

We have to take a batsman-centric approach to win these games. Once on the right track the same bowlers will become more effective you will see.
I agree with you about YK and that 5 bowlers should do the job but they should be 5 regular wicket taking bowlers. I feel Razzaq is a better 1-down option right now for Pakistan since he is hitting and he is useless down the order when spinners are operating.

Reality_Check
8th April 2005, 00:22
Butt
Razzak- He showed good ability with the hard ball in the last game
Younis
Inzamam
Youhana
Malik
Akmal- Much more effective here...
Afridi
Naveed
Sami (debatable)
Arshad

Butt and Younis to be 6th Bowler

Malik Akmal Afridi- provide plenty of muscle for the latter overs


Oh yeh almost forgot Hafeez as ball boy...will make his chachu Aamir proud.
Strong Middle Order- of Younis Inzamam and Youhana

MIG
8th April 2005, 00:24
Why arent you playing Malik after Razzaq ? He's done well when the ball is new , hasnt he ?

Cartman
8th April 2005, 00:27
Finding the ideal combination with this Pakistani team is like a puzzle. We have too many "multi-dimensional" hit n miss players, and I am sure it gets harder for coach and captain, as well, to pick a team.

But honestly I think Sami should not sit out. This is going to be a bad move.

cricketcrazy
8th April 2005, 01:20
Press Trust of India
Jamshedpur, April 7, 2005

Pakistan will make three changes for the third One-Day International against India to be played at Jamshedpur on Saturday.
Pakistan, who trail 0-2 in the six-match series, have decided to drop paceman Mohammad Sami, off-spinner Arshad Khan and all-rounder Mohammad Hafeez.

"The three will be replaced by wrist spinner Danish Kaneria, fast bowler Rao Iftikhar Anjum and middle-order batsman Younis Khan," Pakistani captain Inzamam-ul-Haq said.

The Pakistani skipper said Sami was being rested because of the tough playing conditions while Younis Khan was an automatic selection after he recovered from viral fever that kept him away from the first two games.

Regarding Arshad Khan, who has taken six wickets in two games, Inzamam said the strategy of playing a finger spinner was not working for Pakistan.

"We want someone who can bowl in the middle of the innings. Besides, Danish is a specialist wrist spinner who has the ability to take wickets. We want someone who cannot only bowl in the middle of the innings but can also get wickets for us," he said.

Kaneria has so far played 10-one-dayers in which he has taken nine wickets at 42.44.

Inzamam said Shahid Afridi would continue to open the innings because the wickets suit his style of batting and that he can be more destructive on top of the order.

Sami, who has struggled to find the form and rhythm that until 18 months ago earned him the reputation as one of the most promising fast bowlers, had figures of 8-0-42-0 and 9-0-65-1 in the first two one-dayers.

He has picked up 99 wickets at 27.89 in 68 one-dayers but his career best five for 10 was 15 months and 29 games ago when he carpeted New Zealand at the Gaddafi Stadium. In the last 20 one-dayers, he has taken 22 wickets.

Inzamam hoped Younis Khan's return would provide Pakistan the stability and depth that lacked in the first two games.

"He is a man in form and I feel that had our top order lasted 50 overs, we would have won both the games. I hope Younis's return would give us a more experienced middle-order.

"I don't think Younis will bat at number 3 and we will persist with either Abdul Razzaq or Shoaib Malik, depending on the situation. Younis will bat at number 5 or 6," Inzamam said.

Younis was undoubtedly the player of the three-Test series with 424 runs at 84.80 that included a career-best 267 at Bangalore.

************************************************** ******

What do u think guys do v need these three changes??

adi 101
8th April 2005, 01:22
old news

ImranR
8th April 2005, 01:23
old old news

sajjad
8th April 2005, 01:23
3 bowlers out
2 in

hmmm...i hope for pakistans sake it works out somehow

cricketcrazy
8th April 2005, 01:24
do v need him as an opener or he is better down the order??

Inzamam said Shahid Afridi would continue to open the innings because the wickets suit his style of batting and that he can be more destructive on top of the order.

"I don't think Younis will bat at number 3 and we will persist with either Abdul Razzaq or Shoaib Malik, depending on the situation. Younis will bat at number 5 or 6," Inzamam said.[:S]

cricketcrazy
8th April 2005, 01:25
oh sorry if it is old I just read it so I thought I should share it with you guys ojk MOD u can lock or delet this one

KB
8th April 2005, 01:36
"We want someone who can bowl in the middle of the innings. Besides, Danish is a specialist wrist spinner who has the ability to take wickets. We want someone who cannot only bowl in the middle of the innings but can also get wickets for us," he said.

That's fine as long as it supported by sound field placings. No point playing Kaneria as an attacking option if there are easy singles to be had. Inzamam will need to have more than the minimum 4 men in the circle if he wants Kaneria to be a wicket-taking bowler.

Khalil
8th April 2005, 01:56
Good idea to let Afridi open. He has the ability to take full advantage of the first 15 overs

Amir_rulez
8th April 2005, 02:00
Bad idea. Afridi plays spinners better. Cant handle pace with some swing.

Master-P
8th April 2005, 02:03
If pathan is bowling then open with him but if pathan aint bowling just dont bother.

Big Daddy
8th April 2005, 02:05
yes amir we all saw how he hit 6s of sachin and got bogged down by pathan , point noted

mumtaz
8th April 2005, 02:36
Pakistan has the problem of how to use afridi, razzaq and malik in the batting department. All of them can win you matches with the bat and where to bat them is a big question that does not have a simple answer. Throw Akmal into this and you have so many permutations that it is a captain and coach's nightmare.

Still, I would say that Malik needs to be left at no.3. He has had such success there and he can perform the dual role of stabilizing the innings as well as keeping the run-rate up. At least one of Razzaq and Afridi also needs to be lower down the order. IMO why we couldnt do more in the last match was because we didnt have razzaq or afridi down the order who have been our finishers during the past year. What razzaq did coming at no 3 could have been expected of malik as well, so there was really no need to send him instead of malik unless he was expected to blast 50 from 25 balls!!

For the next match the batting order should look like:

Butt
Afridi
Malik
Yoyo/Inzi
Inzi/Yoyo
YK
Razzaq
Akmal
Rana
Rao
Kaneria

BTW i still dont understand under what conditions yoyo bats above inzi and vice versa. Anyone has any idea abt that?

Cartman
8th April 2005, 02:39
If pathan is bowling then open with him but if pathan aint bowling just dont bother.

Yeah we will send someone out to Indian camp and have them ask Ganguly "bhai jaan .. kia aaj aap Pathan sai attack karwayein gay?"

And Ganguly would obviously be kind enough to answer in yes or no and then we can make plans accordingly.

Ingenius plan Master P.. Why didnt anybody else think of that before!!!!!!!!!!!

shikari
8th April 2005, 03:10
Cartman,

The ***** had hafeez talk to ganguly and kinda pinged him about his attack plans. Hafeez suggested that Pathan should play and attack the bowling.

On a more serious note, if Pathan is in the starting eleven then he will attack.

Amir_rulez
8th April 2005, 09:16
yes amir we all saw how he hit 6s of sachin and got bogged down by pathan , point noted

Being sarcastic ...nice try
That was one match. Afridi has a record of playin spinners better, which can be backed by his fastest century against Sri Lankan spinners and many other occasions.

Amir_rulez
8th April 2005, 09:32
and im not bsing . Here are some facts:

Top 5 bowlers who dismissed Afridi.

Dis bwd c fi c wk st lbw Ave

WC Vaas (LFM) 8 3 5 0 0 0 16.87
KSC Silva (LFM) 7 0 6 1 0 0 32.71
J Srinath (RFM) 6 1 4 1 0 0 9.00
GD McGrath (RFM 5 0 4 1 0 0 3.80
JN Gillespie (RF) 4 1 1 1 0 1 6.75

And none of those 5 are spinners. Kumble happens to be on # 8 & he is the only spinner in top 10 bowlers to take his wicket...and he isnt playing.

Awesome Anjum
8th April 2005, 11:20
Captain, coach reluctant to induct Younis instead of Malik

Woolmer and Inzamam appear to feel Younis can only come in for Hafeez

From Waheed Khan and Abdul Majid Bhatti

JAMSHEDPUR, India: The two defeats in the One-day International series against India have left the Pakistan touring selection committee pondering over their next move before the third match here on Saturday (tomorrow).

On paper, the obvious changes in the playing eleven should be that the fit and in-form Younis Khan replaces Shoaib Malik, leg-spinner Danish Kaneria comes in for either Arshad Khan or Mohammad Hafeez and Rao Iftikhar (who is also a good bat) plays in place of Mohammad Sami, who has bowled a lot of overs on the tour and definitely needs a rest for a match or two.

But then things are never so simple in Pakistan cricket because the grapevine has it that coach Bob Woolmer and to an extent even captain Inzamam-ul-Haq are reluctant to drop their "blue eyed boy" Shoaib Malik and instead fit in Younis Khan.

One has learnt that after the second defeat in Vishakapatnam, manager Saleem Altaf, himself a former Test and one-day player, suggested to Inzamam that Pakistan was missing a specialist batsman and secondly it needed to add sting to its bowling attack by including fresh faces in the firing line.

Altaf’s suggestion was that Younis should play instead of Malik who has not scored in the first two games and whom he feels does not warrant a place in the eleven when he is not allowed to bowl by the International Cricket Council (ICC).

But the line of thinking of the coach in particular is different as he and, to an extent even the captain, feel that Younis can only come in for Hafeez but this would mean playing with just five bowlers and this would be a suicidal step by the Pakistanis given the exhausting weather conditions that are being experienced at this time of the year at the match venues.

"Woolmer has a lot of confidence in Malik and is reluctant to drop him despite his form and the fact that logic demands Younis play at any cost without reducing the number of bowling options from six to five. This attitude has not pleased Altaf who is also the Director Cricket Operations of the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) and there has been talk on this issue," a team source stated.

Just the thought that there could be any discussion on Younis not replacing Malik is strange given the fact that he topped the Test batting averages with over 500 runs and is enjoying a golden run of form like Virender Sehwag. Plus he also brings plenty of enthusiasm on the field with his chirpy attitude.

Altaf, sources say, also feels something different is needed in the bowling to stop Sehwag’s streak of runs if Pakistan wants to win the remaining matches.

"But he is upset having noticed that the coach has a few favourites in the team and is not willing to drop them despite solid reasoning," a source disclosed.

Altaf is due to submit a detailed report on the tour and the performance of the team members when he returns to Pakistan and the source said he was not overly impressed with some of the things he had seen in the team. "For one he is not impressed with the habit of the coach to be upfront to take credit for any good performance but pass the buck to the captain or find excuses after any bad performance or if things are not going well as has been the case in the first two one-dayers," the source said.

According to him Altaf had been upfront with the coach on some cricket related issues on a few occasions during the tour and even before the third Test in Bangalore had given a piece of his mind to the players.

The source said Altaf was planning to have a one to one meeting with Inzamam to sort things out in this direction before the game on Saturday.

"Altaf is also surprised that the board has signed a contract with the coach with no termination clause in it and the fact that there is a huge compensation clause to be adhered to by the Board if it wants to replace the coach," the source said.

Woolmer however has made it clear time and again that he does not have a magic potion to turn the team overnight into world beaters and it would take time for the players to adjust to his cricket philosophy and way of going about things on the field.

"I am doing my best. I am working hard with the players because I love this game and it is a challenge for me to work with Pakistan and we are getting some results. But no team can be turned into number one overnight this is a process that takes three to five years," he has repeatedly maintained.

But apparently there is now a big question mark on just how much more patience is the board going to have with the coach.

The key now lies in the results of the remaining four one-dayers on this tour. If Pakistan end up winning them there is no argument about the fact that the captain and coach will return home as heroes, but if the series is lost by a big margin then the situation could be different specially since the PCB’s Director Cricket Operations is tipped to remain in the board for the next two years with the consent of the chief patron even if there is a change in the board after June.

gfx
8th April 2005, 11:28
MAlik should'nt be dropped. Despite his poor form so far. His strike rate makes him a very usefull player in ODI's. I can't really say the same for Younis, who on these flat pitches may not be able to score runs quickly enough to be usefull.

161
8th April 2005, 11:32
malik needs to play !!

afridi is the obvious choice to drop- he's going for 10 runs and over, can't get any wickets and is not contributing with the bat.

Amir_rulez
8th April 2005, 11:36
Malik shud be played. Hafeez needs to be dropped for YK.

MIG
8th April 2005, 11:37
Pls note the word "the source" in above article and be warned that the percieved differences between Altaf and others may NOT exist !!! Uffff yah Waheed Khan sub ko lay doobay ga !!!

Daoud
8th April 2005, 11:41
MIG, why bag out Waheed Khan again. We know hes the special correspondent for TSN.

ugem12
8th April 2005, 11:46
I think they should give another try to keep wickets with younis.

MIG
8th April 2005, 11:47
MIG, why bag out Waheed Khan again. We know hes the special correspondent for TSN.


:)) :)) :))

octavian
8th April 2005, 12:23
Amir, Kumble aint a spinner either. :P

Nauman
8th April 2005, 12:24
You cannot look much into two poor performances by Shoaib Malik keep in mind we were chasing relatively big totals and even the greatest of batsmen some time succumb under pressure and get out. Malik needs to be persisted with besides I dont see the point of Salim Altaf we are going for 350+ with 6 bowlers surely it cant be worse with 5 bowlers atleast we will have more chance of chasing the targed with an extra batsman.

Annie
8th April 2005, 12:31
Couple of changes likely for 3rd ODI: Inzamam

JAMSHEDPUR: Pakistani captain Inzamam-ul Haq hinted on Thursday at two or three changes in the final squad for the third One Day International to played in Jamshedpur on Saturday.

Vice captain Younus Khan, Leg Spinner Danish Kaneria and Raop Iftekhar can be included in the team.[b]

According to Inzamamul Haq [b]Younus was fit and would replace Muhammad Hafeez in the team while Rao Iftekhar and Danish Kaneria would replace Muhammad Sami and Arshad Khan.

He was of the view Arshad Khan was failed to give breakthrough when needed. He added that Shahid Afridi would play as opener.

GEO

do not agree with afridi opening at all..i thought woolmer said afridi wud NOT open...then don't know wat this is all about! Why can't they just play him at 7 or 8!

NOOOO not ********!! rao again!

no sami and arshad...

malik is likely NOT going to be dropped from the sound of the above... :D

good move to bring in dani and thank God, useless hafeez is likely a drop for the next one...

i'm looking for a pak win in this next one...

Amir_rulez
8th April 2005, 12:47
Amir, Kumble aint a spinner either. :P
there u go.

MIG
8th April 2005, 12:53
Guys, remember there is a discussion thread on top of the forum for ODIs as well...

Hash
8th April 2005, 13:34
waheed khan? need I say any more

Dada
8th April 2005, 13:38
As being big fan of Inzy it feels odd when people out here uses bad comments about him. There should be team performance insted of any individual. Remember Rahul Dravis's comment after 2nd ODI. He said, "We were worried only of Inzamam and Yohana, once we got them game turn to us, Afridi was not the treat we know how take his wicket". Seems they have already done home work for Afridi. Point is, Pakistani bowlers. Pakistan should do homework for Viru only because Sachin, Dada, Yuvi, and Kaif are not in touch. If they gets rid of Viru early then just matter of good balls to take wickets of others. Here please not that Dhoni had only a one match knock, we dont know about his consistency. And remains Rahul, no homework aftects him, he will remain unbeaten atleast for minimum 50.

So if Pakistan wants to win the game then they have good batsmen, but they are lacking in bowling and luck(Winning a toss).

Dada
8th April 2005, 13:54
Finally I would say if Pakistani bawlers didnt perform tomorow then there will be hat trick for Dada. And do dought India is gona win it tomorow.

Hussain
8th April 2005, 14:33
Sad to see Malik go but u ve to manufacture the place for Younis khan who is the best performer on this tour so far

Karachi King
8th April 2005, 15:20
i disagree with Nauman. we always need 6th bowler in ODIs specially in such a humid whether & on such a flat tracks. your bowlers are supposed to be cracked up in these situations, so you gotta have a 6th bowler to support them. a tired/exhausted fast bowler can go for more runs then a part-timer in the last 10 overs. this has been proved by Hafeez (in the 1st ODI i think). we are going for 300+ for but we can curtail that if we have more options available. it also gives the captain some space to think about. whereas with 5 bowlers in the team going for big runs, captain's mind will stuck & stop thinking & this can hurt team. this is ODI, not a Test match.

although i would also like to see Malik in the team (even after considering his bad form) because Malik's form is more to do with his frame of mind. once he will regain his confidence, he will be back with a bang.

i hope Malik gets cleared before Windies tour.

Aneel

Sharif
8th April 2005, 15:22
Younis, Kaneria back for third ODI

Cricinfo staff

April 8, 2005


Pakistan has recalled Danish Kaneria for the third one-day international against India at Jamshedpur, in place of Arshad Khan. Apart from this, Pakistan has made two additional changes: Younis Khan and Rao Iftikhar Anjum will replace Mohammad Hafeez and Mohammad Sami.

Inzamam-ul-Haq informed The Press Trust of India that Younis, who was down with a viral fever, has recovered and was ready to take his place back in the side. Sami has been rested due to the tough playing conditions in India. Speaking about the inclusion of Kaneria in the side, Inzamam said, "We want someone who can bowl in the middle of the innings. Besides, Danish is a specialist wrist-spinner who has the ability to take wickets. We want someone who cannot only bowl in the middle of the innings but can also get wickets for us."

Kaneria was the pick of the bowlers for Pakistan in the Test series, picking up two five-wicket hauls. With Younis returning to the squad, Inzamam was hoping for a change in fortunes after being thrashed by India in the first two one-dayers. "He is a man in form and I feel that had our top order lasted 50 overs, we would have won both the games. I hope Younis's return would give us a more experienced middle-order. I don't think Younis will bat at number 3 and we will persist with either Abdul Razzaq or Shoaib Malik, depending on the situation. Younis will bat at No. 5 or 6."

Inzamam also mentioned that Shahid Afridi would continue to open the innings because the wickets suit his style of batting, and he can be more destructive in that posiiton.

MIG
8th April 2005, 15:24
Great news - to me the last roll of the die for Pak - Although Nazir also deserves a chance

Sharif
8th April 2005, 15:35
Great news - to me the last roll of the die for Pak - Although Nazir also deserves a chance

Couldn't agree more but the fact that Razaq might be at no.3 is really good because if he comes in early in the innings he can bat to the pacers and not the spin bowlers where he is at his weakest.

My only concern is that we are playing 5 bowlers what if it all goes horribly wrong.

MIG
8th April 2005, 15:38
Aah the million dollar question Sharif - well if it all goes wrong, you and I will throw Jootay at Inzi and BW - thats the way it works !

Nauman
8th April 2005, 15:38
Aneel I agree 6 bowler is needed in Indian conditions but Hafeez creates an imbalance in the team with his below par batting, besides we need around 5 overs from the 6th bowler and I am sure Butt and Younis Khan can squeez in atleast 5 to 6 overs.

Sharif
8th April 2005, 15:42
Aah the million dollar question Sharif - well if it all goes wrong, you and I will throw Jootay at Inzi and BW - thats the way it works !
:))) :))) :))) :)) :))

Karachi King
8th April 2005, 15:46
Nauman!!! i really really wish that Inzi & BW had used YK or Butt as a part-timer a bit more frequently so that they could have developed to be called as a part-timer. but that is not the case, these guys don't give 1 over/a match to these guys & now this thing is creating imbalance for the team. if they were used to bowl regularly in ODIs as a part-timer then we won't be needed Hafeez in the squad, leave alone th playing XI.

Aneel

Hash
8th April 2005, 16:32
I agree a sixth bowler is needed in these hot and humid conditions but looking back at the last two games......what advantage has this 6th bowler given us? I don't believe it has done us any good at all. Hafeez has dropped Sehwag (cost us 108 runs), missed three direct hits with all stumps to aim at, conceded 114 runs in 16 overs bowled, and scored a total of 49 runs in two innings but taken 82 balls to get them!

HE IS USELESS!!!!!!!

We might as well not bother with him and if the need arises, give Khan saab or Salman a couple of overs.

nedian21
8th April 2005, 17:33
I dont see the point of Salim Altaf we are going for 350+ with 6 bowlers surely it cant be worse with 5 bowlers atleast we will have more chance of chasing the targed with an extra batsman.

totally agree Nauman. Karachi king if u r having 6 bowlers and still giving 350+ runs then there is no point in playing a useless 3 dimensional player. its going to be very tricky for Inzi and Bob. either play with 5 bowlers and play an extra batter or play with 4 specialist batsman and play 4 specialist bowlers. these r 2 good scenarios in my mind BUT both are very risky.

Scenario. (4 specialist batsman and 4 specialist bowler with Afridi , Abdul and Kamran)

1. Afridi
2. Malik (sp batter)
3. YK (sp batter)
4. Inzi (sp batter)
5. Yo Yo (sp batter)
6. Abdul
7. Kamran
8. Rana
9. Nazir
10. Rao
11. Kaneria

now u have 4 specialist bowlers and hopefully with the help of Abdul and Afridi they would be able to restrict Indians. The risk is that out off 1st 6 u cant rely much on Afridi and Kamran coming at 7 can make our tail much longer. and we are asking Rana to play as bowling allrounder.

2nd scenario (only 5 bowlers)

1. Salman
2. Afridi
3. Malik / YK / Abdul
4. Inzi
5. Yo Yo
6. YK / Malik
7. Abdul / Malik
8. Kamran
9. Rana
10. Rao / Nazir
11. Kaneria

in this case u have depth in batting line up but relying on ur 5 bowling options to come good and HEAT is a big factor. may be YK and Salman shd practise some bowling in nets.

there can be other scenarios also by dropping Kamran and asking YK or Malik to keep. but this is even more risky and reasons we all know.

its not that easy as we fans sometimes think

Muzy
8th April 2005, 17:35
..... i know im a big fan of malik but i still think that younis khan is not a fixed ODI player... ok so he's had good form during the test series but that doesnt mean that he will do the same in the ODI, both concepts of the game are different!! if younis khan is to play (which he obviously will) then he needs to be there the whole day with either inzamam/youhana coz the first 3 batsmen need to make at least 100-150 to start them off... also i dont think hafeez needs to play this match, i know a sixth bowler would be needed in these conditions but i agree that either salman butt/younis khan should be persisted with being part/time bowlers...

funny how articles are 'always' saying that when Pakistan team aint producing the results they should be the PCB are getting 'impatient' i mean what are these people :L? they say they are experienced in cricket?? surely they know cricketers cannot be made heroes overnight... about Dhoni well that was his luck... if only the appeal that shahid afridi made for lbw was given out there wouldnt be that much hype in india as there is about him now.....

Hash
8th April 2005, 17:44
i know im a big fan of malik

really? since when? ;-)

never knew that!

Officer Barbrady
8th April 2005, 18:05
I think Waheed Khan gets it right more often than he is credited for. Saleem Altaf continues to cause problems. He is the kebab main hadee which will cause problems not Shereyar Khan.

hoodis
8th April 2005, 18:14
i know im a big fan of malik

really? since when? ;-)

never knew that!

obviously there are severe gaps in your 'knowledge' in many fields

Hash
8th April 2005, 18:31
hoodis- you have not been here long and still have a lot to learn. I suggest you grow up a bit, and show a bit more maturity.

8th April 2005, 18:39
More utter ** from the great ****** Waheed Khan!

Officer Barbrady
8th April 2005, 18:39
Butt
Afridi
Razzaq
Malik
Inzi
Youhana
Younis
Akmal
Rana
Rao or Sami
Kaneria

Going by the reports this is what they seem to be thinking about. But YK at 5 down is a waste so we might see either Butt or Malik getting dropped (with probably Chairman Hafeez coming in and YK moving up a spot).

Officer Barbrady
8th April 2005, 18:41
I don't see much wrong with what he has said.

Anyhow, Malik should bat at 3 or 4 if he has to play. He is wasted 4 down.

Love and Theft
8th April 2005, 18:41
I dont know who Waheed Khan is, and I dont care who he is.

But it IS rather strange that they are playing Younis by dropping Hafeez, and threby going in with just 5 bowlers in such difficult conditions. It is a VERY strange decision. Is there favoritsm at work here? Possible. Not sure, but possible

Nauman
8th April 2005, 18:46
I think Waheed Khan gets it right more often than he is credited for. Saleem Altaf continues to cause problems. He is the kebab main hadee which will cause problems not Shereyar Khan.

I agree with you he has been interfering in matters that do not concern him unnecesserily, You never heard Haroon Rashid giving statements about team selection because he knew that it was not a manager's job to do so, a manager is supposed to over look the team's dealings outside the playing field. He is concerned with press dealings and other such engagements. Saleem Altaf seems to have taken in his own hands to reserect Pakistan cricket.

Officer Barbrady
8th April 2005, 18:50
Yes and how many times do you see the second in command (CEO or whatever it is called these days) running around as manager of the team. Has he nothing else to do at the PCB or does he feel the team wouldn't function without him?

8th April 2005, 18:53
I dont know who Waheed Khan is, and I dont care who he is.

But it IS rather strange that they are playing Younis by dropping Hafeez, and threby going in with just 5 bowlers in such difficult conditions. It is a VERY strange decision. Is there favoritsm at work here? Possible. Not sure, but possible

So is this team news confirmed then? I thought it was a mere rumour!

Amjid Javed
8th April 2005, 18:58
malik for YK???

A batsmen whose in bad form now but has done well in odis over last year... his replacement?

i rubbish odi batsmen whose gr8est odi achievement is 100 v the mighty hong kong...

what a choice....