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fakhar
6th February 2007, 09:16
Hey guys....i was browsing through different websites and came across this...Lanaat on Yazeed and Banu Ummayah...

After she saw Yazid disrespecting the head of her brother (as) with a cane. She stood and said:
"God says, and He says the truth, the end of miscreants will be awful, those who belied the signs of God and mocked them. Oh Yazid, do you feel that you have made our life miserable and existence impossible? And you think that God has dishonoured us and that you have been honoured and elevated? This apparent success of yours is the result of grandeur of your might and lofty status for which you are proud…. You feel that you have conquered the whole world and your affairs are organised and that our domain is now under you control…
Wait! Wait! Let not your ignorance make you so elated for have you not heard God's words - Let not those who disbelieve think that our giving them respite is good for themselves. We only give respite to them so that they may increase in sins and for them is a disgraceful chastisement. (3:177)
Oh you the son of freed slaves! Is this your justice that the ladies of your house remain veiled and we the Prophet's daughters should be paraded from place to place? You have thus insulted our dignity….
Oh Yazid! Your misdeed has proved your rebellion against God…. And this action of yours comes as no surprise from a person whose ancestors chewed the liver of such saintly martyrs. The descendants of such enemies of God should naturally be the most deadly!
Oh Yazid! You are happily disrespecting the teeth of Husain even though it was the place of kissing for the Holy Prophet!
Oh Yazid! You did what you wished, but remember that you have cut your own skin, In the near future you will be taken in the presence of the Holy Prophet. On that occasion you will be burdened with the sins of the misdeed committed by you shedding the blood of his progeny and dishonouring the sanctity of his family.
Oh Yazid! It does not befit you to get inflated with joy after slaying the Prophet's progeny and reckon not those slain in the way of God to be dead: nay! Alive they are with their Lord, being sustained, rejoicing in what God has granted them" (2:168)
Oh Yazid! Feel not elated with our defeat, for you will have to pay the penalty of it on the day when you will be rewarded for your misdeeds. God is not unjust to anyone. We trust in Him. He is our place of refuge. In Him we seek sanctity and with Him rest our hopes!
You can never reach the level of our lofty position, nor can you destroy our remembrances, nor can you wipe out the ignominy you have earned for yourself by your abominable and vile performance. Your decisions are poor and your days are numbered. Your party will disperse the day when the Announcer will announce –
'GOD'S CURSE BE ON TYRANTS AND TRANSGRESSORS'.
:6: :6:

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=3754

hasan316
6th February 2007, 10:08
Yazeed aur Banu Ummayah pay Lanaat Bayshumaar.

fakhar
6th February 2007, 10:14
Hasan Bhai..I was just reading this article on the same website that I have posted the khutba from and it's awesome yaar...It gives all the sunni references like sahih bukhari and stuff...an eye opener for sunni brothers who lack the knowledge of history...it's long and it is going to take a while to finish reading it but it is definitely worth it....check it out...and pass it to as many sunni friends as you can who are willing to know the truth...

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=5397

Rudi hater
6th February 2007, 16:40
Hasan Bhai..I was just reading this article on the same website that I have posted the khutba from and it's awesome yaar...It gives all the sunni references like sahih bukhari and stuff...an eye opener for sunni brothers who lack the knowledge of history...it's long and it is going to take a while to finish reading it but it is definitely worth it....check it out...and pass it to as many sunni friends as you can who are willing to know the truth...

http://www.imamreza.net/eng/imamreza.php?id=5397


What is it suppose to mean? We all reject Yazeed he is not considered muslim according ulemma.

See what shia tend to forget they pick and choose things, Islam is not picking and choosing things. According to one of you guysSunni believe that Hadrat Ali(ra)'s name is mentoned around 300 times in Quran indirectly whilst when the samething is said about Abu Bakr(ra) the father in law and the sahabi of Nabi(SAW) Shia deny it. How conveinent.

kayanni
6th February 2007, 17:41
Just a question for our Shia friends - and i really dont know the answer to this

Where does it say in the Quran sharif any any of the hadiths of the prophet (SAW) that we should beat ourselves during Muharram...... Mourning the death of Imam Hussain (RAA) is one thing but y beat yourselves

Is this not bidah?

In a Hadith the Prophet (SAW) says if you follow the Quran and the Sunnah you will not alter from the correct path.

So where does this beating yourself come from?

Rudi hater
6th February 2007, 18:01
What about question of Muttah? Where does it says that it is allowed? Muttah and drinking of alcohol got forbidden during nabi(SAW) period.

Hasan
6th February 2007, 19:09
Thank you for posting this Khutba of Bibi Zainab, it reflects a defining moment in the history of Islam. This lady had the eloquence of her grand father and father. She perfectly exposed the hollow "victory" of Yazid, and established the supremacy of true Islam over the distored Islam which was being presented by the Kings of Banu Ummayah.

Islam is alive today thanks to the sacrifices undertaken by the blessed family of the Prophet and Hazrat Abu Talib

Rudi hater
6th February 2007, 20:10
Thank you for posting this Khutba of Bibi Zainab, it reflects a defining moment in the history of Islam. This lady had the eloquence of her grand father and father. She perfectly exposed the hollow "victory" of Yazid, and established the supremacy of true Islam over the distored Islam which was being presented by the Kings of Banu Ummayah.

Islam is alive today thanks to the sacrifices undertaken by the blessed family of the Prophet and Hazrat Abu Talib

Islam is here to stay and those who distort it will always remain in minority inshllah.

Rudi hater
6th February 2007, 20:54
www.geocities.com/~abdulwahid/ahlibayt/history_of_shiism.html - 31k - The origin of Shiaism.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 02:06
Islam is here to stay and those who distort it will always remain in minority inshllah.

Sadly on the day of the great sacrifice it was the minority which sided with Imam Hussain, and the brainwashed majority which sided with the corrupt majority. Islam is a religion of following the truth not the majority!!!

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:12
Islam is fortunately the fastest growing religion and in this point in time islam is majority. Thats Allah's will.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 02:20
Islam is fortunately the fastest growing religion and in this point in time islam is majority. Thats Allah's will.

Sadly this new growth in Islam is devoid of all intellectual and progressive thought leadership.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:28
Sadly this new growth in Islam is devoid of all intellectual and progressive thought leadership.

May be.

hasan316
7th February 2007, 02:30
Sadly on the day of the great sacrifice it was the minority which sided with Imam Hussain, and the brainwashed majority which sided with the corrupt majority. Islam is a religion of following the truth not the majority!!!


Well said Brother Hasan.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:33
it is beacuse of Hadrat Hussain Islam is in majority. Alhemdulillah.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 02:37
As regards your post on origins of Shia Islam, I would suggest that you spend sometime reviewing the following link, it should help shed some light on the difference between Shia and Sunni Islam, and it also should to illustrate the difficult of some leading Sunni leaders have in reconciling the concept of Khalifat. I would recommend that you watch it till the end, it interesting to see the so called scholar fail to answer any of the question of his students and takes the easy road of declaring shia to be kafirs.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3478977737651252931&q=shia&hl=en

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:40
Listen, I don't know what are you on about? I know whats right and whats wrong I have my own brain and can read and write.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:46
Beside prophet(PBUH) would not have hung around with people who you think were not the right path and would not get married to someone like that either. You are questioning Nabi(SAW)'s integrity. I will stay away from such fitnas.

zaminabs
7th February 2007, 02:46
What is it suppose to mean? We all reject Yazeed he is not considered muslim according ulemma.

See what shia tend to forget they pick and choose things, Islam is not picking and choosing things. According to one of you guysSunni believe that Hadrat Ali(ra)'s name is mentoned around 300 times in Quran indirectly whilst when the samething is said about Abu Bakr(ra) the father in law and the sahabi of Nabi(SAW) Shia deny it. How conveinent.

It's funny how Abu Bakr was absent from the Prophet's (s.a.w) funeral. Maybe in the pursuit of wordly desires?

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:49
It's funny how Abu Bakr was absent from the Prophet's funeral. Maybe in the pursuit of wordly desires?

Were you there?

Can I ask you something would you be asked about Khilfat and politics in the grave or would you be answering for your deeds?

Why did Messenger of Allah got married to Hadrat Ayesha (Ra)?

zaminabs
7th February 2007, 02:52
Ayesha started a war against Imam Ali (a.s.) which wife of the Prophet (PBUH) would do that?

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:53
Are you saying that she was not prophet(PBUH)'s wife?

hasan316
7th February 2007, 02:54
Were you there?

Can I ask you something would you be asked about Khilfat and politics in the grave or would you be answering for your deeds?

Why did Messenger of Allah got married to Hadrat Ayesha (Ra)?



To show people that wrong wife can create problems in your life and with your Family.

Zechariah
7th February 2007, 02:54
It's funny how Abu Bakr was absent from the Prophet's (s.a.w) funeral. Maybe in the pursuit of wordly desires?

Were you there Mr. Hero? You travelled back in time and saw it?

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 02:56
So you are saying prophet(PBUH) didn't know who he was getting married to? Nauzibillah, lanut on those who question messenger of Allah's integrity and credbilty.

hasan316
7th February 2007, 02:58
So you are saying prophet(PBUH) didn't know who he was getting married to? Nauzibillah, lanut on those who question messenger of Allah's integrity and credbilty.



NO I said that Prophet (PBUH) wanted to show people that wrong wife can create problems in your life and with your Family.

zaminabs
7th February 2007, 02:59
Yes she was the wife of the Prophet (PBUH) but not the only wife. Bibi Khadija was also a wife of the Prophet (PBUH).

What I'm saying is that Ayesha started a war with Imam Ali (a.s.). Why should a women start a war?

Zechariah
7th February 2007, 03:01
So you are saying prophet(PBUH) didn't know who he was getting married to? Nauzibillah, lanut on those who question messenger of Allah's integrity and credbilty.

I second to that. This is ridiculous. There are Muslim dying around us and these kids are still arguing about something that happened 1000 years ago and then fabricated every possible event to disgrace Prophet.

The fact is Hazrat Ali did not protest when Hazrat Abu Bakr was chosen. Period! So you people will beat yourself to death every year and take revenge from Sunnis all the over the world? Grow up seriously.

This is not the time for this. We are all Muslims and we are one and we all follow the same book and the same Prophet. UNITE and stop this ignorance and hatred that you all have for Sunnis in your hearts. Everyone is responsible for thier deeds and GOD will judge everyone who made a sect in religion and divided it.

We are all Muslims and we all follow Quran and Prophet. Case Closed.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:01
Listen, I don't know what are you on about? I know whats right and whats wrong I have my own brain and can read and write.

If that is your position that you must have to admit that Hazrat Abu Talib was a muslim, as the Prophet loved him with very fiber of his body!!!

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:01
NO I said that Prophet (PBUH) wanted to show people that wrong wife can create problems in your life and with your Family.

Nauzibillah.May Allah give you a bit of respect for our beloved prophet(PBUH).
I didn't know people can be so low. So prophet(PBUH) said to that world I am getting married to a wrong woman...You better take yor words back man coz you are insulting Prophet(PBUH). Allah chose best of women for our prophet(SAW) and best of companion. Better say astghafir.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:03
If that is your position that you must have to admit that Hazrat Abu Talib was a muslim, as the Prophet loved him with very fiber of his body!!!
Listen you would never hear bad words from sunnis about Hadrat Abu Talib, what are you on about?

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:03
So you are saying prophet(PBUH) didn't know who he was getting married to? Nauzibillah, lanut on those who question messenger of Allah's integrity and credbilty

Please confirm once again that you stand by this statement, and I will continue the debate further.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:04
Listen you would never hear bad words from sunnis about Hadrat Abu Talib, what are you on about?

SO he was a Muslim, please confirm

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:05
Allah knows best whether Hadrat Abu Talib became muslim or not but we would never utter words against his kindness to our prophet(PBUH).

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:07
Listen, I don't know about Abu Talib whether he became muslim only allah knows.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:08
Beside, its got nothing to with my deeds. As I say I respect him whatever he did for our prophet(pbuh).

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:19
Listen, I don't know about Abu Talib whether he became muslim only allah knows

In the same way Shia are not sure as to the Iman of the some companions, only Allah knows. And therefore they cannot be an authority on Islam. So in a way our position is very similar.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:20
So you are saying prophet(PBUH) didn't know who he was getting married to? Nauzibillah, lanut on those who question messenger of Allah's integrity and credbilty

Now coming back to his statement, please establish if this is a universal principle that applies to all humans.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:22
Yes she was the wife of the Prophet (PBUH) but not the only wife. Bibi Khadija was also a wife of the Prophet (PBUH).

What I'm saying is that Ayesha started a war with Imam Ali (a.s.). Why should a women start a war?


For your kind information Nabi (SAW) got married to nine different women Hadrat Khadija(ra) and Hadrat Ayesha(ra) were among them.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:24
Now coming back to his statement, please establish if this is a universal principle that applies to all humans.
Anyone questioning Prophet(PBUH) credibilty YES. I dont care who that person is SUNNI or SHIA. Human makes mistakes and if anyone does that he/she should repent.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:29
Hasan mate I suggest you put your energy learning deen and not dedicating your time to debate such as this I mean I cannot talk to people who insult Ahel-Bait or Sahaba. I think we should worry about ourselevs and the message that Messenger of Allah(SAW) left us and not get into debate about what happened in the past. At the end of the day, we will not be answering for anyone but ourselves.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:30
RESPECT is the key word you cannot go wrong with that.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:41
Anyone questioning Prophet(PBUH) credibilty YES. I dont care who that person is SUNNI or SHIA. Human makes mistakes and if anyone does that he/she should repent.

I am in agreement, anyone who doubts the prophet is subject to lanat, and if he repents then it is for Allah to decide if he can be considered a muslim again. But I will certainly not assume this man to be a authority on Islam.


Bukhari writes in 3.891:


Umar bin Al-Khattab said, "I went to the Prophet and said, 'Aren't you truly the Apostle of Allah?' The Prophet said, 'Yes, indeed.' I said, 'Isn't our Cause just and the cause of the enemy unjust?' He said, 'Yes.' I said, 'Then why should we be humble in our religion?' He said, 'I am Allah's Apostle and I do not disobey Him, and He will make me victorious.' I said, 'Didn't you tell us that we would go to the Ka'ba and perform Tawaf around it?' He said, 'Yes, but did I tell you that we would visit the Ka'ba this year?' I said, 'No.' He said, 'So you will visit it and perform Tawaf around it?' " Umar further said, "I went to Abu Bakr and said, 'O Abu Bakr! Isn't he truly Allah's Prophet?' He replied, 'Yes.' I said, 'Then why should we be humble in our religion?' He said, 'Indeed, he is Allah's Apostle and he does not disobey his Lord, and He will make him victorious. Adhere to him as, by Allah, he is on the right.' I said, 'Was he not telling us that we would go to the Kaba and perform Tawaf around it?' He said, 'Yes, but did he tell you that you would go to the Ka'ba this year?' I said, 'No.' He said, "You will go to Ka'ba and perform Tawaf around it." (Az-Zuhri said, " 'Umar said, 'I performed many good deeds as expiation for the improper questions I asked them.'")

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:48
Hasan mate I suggest you put your energy learning deen and not dedicating your time to debate such as this I mean I cannot talk to people who insult Ahel-Bait or Sahaba. I think we should worry about ourselevs and the message that Messenger of Allah(SAW) left us and not get into debate about what happened in the past. At the end of the day, we will not be answering for anyone but ourselves.

I would suggest that you go to the top of this thread, and realise that it was you who came to this thread out of your free will. The fact that you have failed to defend you arguement is sadly a reflection on your misguided beliefs. I would suggest that you stop posting on Shia Islam given the fact that you do not understand it. In fact it seems that you do not understand your on beliefs.

Big Daddy
7th February 2007, 03:51
See miggy its been 5 shia sunni posts and I have yet to post in any . Horray beer

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:52
And? There were times during Sahaba period when they knew things but asked prophet(PBUH) so that other people can listen to them from Allah's messenger(SAW).

I say this to you, I will keep on follwoing my path and you yours. I will keep on respecting our Sahaba and you keep on hating them. All ah will decide on the day of judgement who was on the right path. You will deny everything even Abu Bakr (ra) has been mention in Quran you guys twist and turn the words to degrade him but Allah(SWT) will not let that happen.

I would refrain from insulting anyone if I were you, coz you would never know what are you doing unkowingly. You have nothing to lose by respect people but alot lose if you are wrong. With that I close this debate coz I cannot tolerate insult to anyone THAT IS NOT ISLAM. May Allah keep us on the right path till we meet our lord Allah(SWT).

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:54
I would suggest that you go to the top of this thread, and realise that it was you who came to this thread out of your free will. The fact that you have failed to defend you arguement is sadly a reflection on your misguided beliefs. I would suggest that you stop posting on Shia Islam given the fact that you do not understand it. In fact it seems that you do not understand your on beliefs.

Read the story Abdullah Ibn Sabah it will make sense to you who is misguided.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 03:56
I would suggest that you go to the top of this thread, and realise that it was you who came to this thread out of your free will. The fact that you have failed to defend you arguement is sadly a reflection on your misguided beliefs. I would suggest that you stop posting on Shia Islam given the fact that you do not understand it. In fact it seems that you do not understand your on beliefs.

Don't you dare telling me that I don't understand my belief I know my belief as well as yours. My belief is love for NABI(SAW), AHELEBAIT AND SAHABA which is alot better than hatered.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 03:59
And? There were times during Sahaba period when they knew things but asked prophet(PBUH) so that other people can listen to them from Allah's messenger(SAW).

I say this to you, I will keep on follwoing my path and you yours. I will keep on respecting our Sahaba and you keep on hating them. All ah will decide on the day of judgement who was on the right path. You will deny everything even Abu Bakr (ra) has been mention in Quran you guys twist and turn the words to degrade him but Allah(SWT) will not let that happen.

I would refrain from insulting anyone if I were you, coz you would never know what are you doing unkowingly. You have nothing to lose by respect people but alot lose if you are wrong. With that I close this debate coz I cannot tolerate insult to anyone THAT IS NOT ISLAM. May Allah keep us on the right path till we meet our lord Allah(SWT).

SO we agree again, you have your position which you justify in your mind, and we have our position which we justify in our mind. It is only a ***** who can claim the other party is wrong when he does not even understand that the other party's arguements are.
For us Shia, to be a muslim it requires you to believe in the Allah and his Prophet, and therefore we consider sunnies to be our brothers in Islam. We do not agree with them, but we are not so foolish and close minded to question thier status as muslims.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 04:03
SO we agree again, you have your position which you justify in your mind, and we have our position which we justify in our mind. It is only a ***** who can claim the other party is wrong when he does not even understand that the other party's arguements are.
For us Shia, to be a muslim it requires you to believe in the Allah and his Prophet, and therefore we consider sunnies to be our brothers in Islam. We do not agree with them, but we are not so foolish and close minded to question thier status as muslims.

Thats what I am saying why fight our something that has little relevance. I just don't see the point when we attack each other then the non muslim rule us. What a pitty.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 04:05
Read the story Abdullah Ibn Sabah it will make sense to you who is misguided.

There were two jews who are claimed to have entered Islam to distort it, the other was Abu Hureira. That same Ahu Hureira who was beaten on many occasion by Umar for telling lies, and is the same Abu Hureira who is the leading contributor to Bukhari & Muslim.

Are you ready for another debate???

Geordie Ahmed
7th February 2007, 04:12
yay - another Sunni-Shia debate

Zechariah
7th February 2007, 04:13
There were two jews who are claimed to have entered Islam to distort it, the other was Abu Hureira. That same Ahu Hureira who was beaten on many occasion by Umar for telling lies, and is the same Abu Hureira who is the leading contributor to Bukhari & Muslim.

Are you ready for another debate???

I am a sunni but I am a Muslim and that is why I always say that Quran must be the only authority and nothing else. Our Prophet (PBUH) taught us nothing seperate from the Quran and we have eveything we need to know about his brilliant character. Quranic laws must be the law of the land if we all agree on one thing we can never go astray and that will happen if and only if we all follow the Quran that Prophet left us.

Hasan
7th February 2007, 04:22
Quranic laws must be the law of the land if we all agree on one thing we can never go astray and that will happen if and only if we all follow the Quran that Prophet left us.

And on this far sighted and thoughtful note I will take my leave. For all my Sunni brothers in Islam, I say this, we are of the same faith. And to my Shia brother I say that belief in the Prophet, the Ahal Bait, and the rightfully guided companions will earn us Allah's pleasure.

fakhar
7th February 2007, 11:45
I am a sunni but I am a Muslim and that is why I always say that Quran must be the only authority and nothing else. Our Prophet (PBUH) taught us nothing seperate from the Quran and we have eveything we need to know about his brilliant character. Quranic laws must be the law of the land if we all agree on one thing we can never go astray and that will happen if and only if we all follow the Quran that Prophet left us.
Prophet left two things with us when he departed Quran and his progeny. These two can not be separted...Let me ask you simple question...in order to understand any book you need a teacher...so how can you understand QURAN which is a word of ALLAH without a teacher...Quran can only be taught by people whom Allah has chosen which includesProphet and 12 imams...not by somebody who has been chosen by people

fakhar
7th February 2007, 11:47
Just a question for our Shia friends - and i really dont know the answer to this

Where does it say in the Quran sharif any any of the hadiths of the prophet (SAW) that we should beat ourselves during Muharram...... Mourning the death of Imam Hussain (RAA) is one thing but y beat yourselves

Is this not bidah?

In a Hadith the Prophet (SAW) says if you follow the Quran and the Sunnah you will not alter from the correct path.

So where does this beating yourself come from?
Does the Quran tell us how to pray namaz??

fakhar
7th February 2007, 11:58
Were you there?

Can I ask you something would you be asked about Khilfat and politics in the grave or would you be answering for your deeds?

Why did Messenger of Allah got married to Hadrat Ayesha (Ra)?
Please tell me you actually don't believe that he was there....I mean even the cutter wahabis know this that at the time of prophet's death Abu Bakr, Umar and Usman were sitting in a saqifa...

fakhar
7th February 2007, 12:13
I second to that. This is ridiculous. There are Muslim dying around us and these kids are still arguing about something that happened 1000 years ago and then fabricated every possible event to disgrace Prophet.

The fact is Hazrat Ali did not protest when Hazrat Abu Bakr was chosen. Period! So you people will beat yourself to death every year and take revenge from Sunnis all the over the world? Grow up seriously.

This is not the time for this. We are all Muslims and we are one and we all follow the same book and the same Prophet. UNITE and stop this ignorance and hatred that you all have for Sunnis in your hearts. Everyone is responsible for thier deeds and GOD will judge everyone who made a sect in religion and divided it.

We are all Muslims and we all follow Quran and Prophet. Case Closed.

Have you ever heard of Ghadeer-e-Khum? All I am saying is that Prophet had announced that Hazrat Ali A.S. will be the leader after him. He has been appointed by Allah..

fakhar
7th February 2007, 12:19
Allah knows best whether Hadrat Abu Talib became muslim or not but we would never utter words against his kindness to our prophet(PBUH).
either there are different sects w/in sunni'ism or different sunnis believe different things..coz i have come across sunnis all my life who consider Hazrat Abu Talib A.S. to be kafir( nauzobillah) because according to them He neve accepted Islam...

Asim2Good
7th February 2007, 12:24
Have you ever heard of Ghadeer-e-Khum? All I am saying is that Prophet had announced that Hazrat Ali A.S. will be the leader after him. He has been appointed by Allah..

I asked you yesterday in another thread and asking you again.
Do you think Muslims like Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Usman, Hazrat Umar Farooq ll reject sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) for just sake of power?
answer simply Yes or NO.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 14:04
There were two jews who are claimed to have entered Islam to distort it, the other was Abu Hureira. That same Ahu Hureira who was beaten on many occasion by Umar for telling lies, and is the same Abu Hureira who is the leading contributor to Bukhari & Muslim.

Are you ready for another debate???

OK I will leave that for Allah to Judge. As I say Shia have their own way of thinking rejecting some Ahdiths and accepting others depending on the situation. Truth is right in front of us.

kayanni
7th February 2007, 14:08
Fakhar

Pretty Shallow reply

My point is that u following the sayings of the prophet and the teachings of the quran.

If u disagree with the fundamental point then ur on a lost cause.

Everyone whether Shia/Sunni you must follow the Prophet SAW's teachings on how to do things correctly.

So on that basis can anyone tell me where it is written to beat yourselves up when mourning death of a righteous person.

Open question Fakhar - substantiate that is is permissible in ISLAM

zaf1986
7th February 2007, 14:13
What about question of Muttah? Where does it says that it is allowed? Muttah and drinking of alcohol got forbidden during nabi(SAW) period.
This thread is about the sermon of Lady Zainab, not muta.

zaf1986
7th February 2007, 14:14
Open question Fakhar - substantiate that is is permissible in ISLAM
You have it the wrong way round. You have to substantiate that something is forbidden. Everything is permissable, until proven otherwise.

zaf1986
7th February 2007, 14:15
Read the story Abdullah Ibn Sabah it will make sense to you who is misguided.
If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

Newsflash: Ibn Saba didn't exist. Read some history.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 14:28
If you believe that, you'll believe anything.

Newsflash: Ibn Saba didn't exist. Read some history.

Yeah, you would say that. Why am I not surprised.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 14:34
You have it the wrong way round. You have to substantiate that something is forbidden. Everything is permissable, until proven otherwise.


I think it was a valid question. We have never heard Prophet(PBUH) beat himself when mourning. Prove it us that he himself did that.

zaminabs
7th February 2007, 15:18
Sahih BukhARI Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296:
Narrated 'Aisha:

The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur'an while I was in menses.



You say that we mock the integrity of the Prophet (PBUH) but look what I found in Sahih Bukhari.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 15:26
Sahih BukhARI Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296:
Narrated 'Aisha:

The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur'an while I was in menses.



You say that we mock the integrity of the Prophet (PBUH) but look what I found in Sahih Bukhari.


And? This is to tell it is allowed but the female cannot touch Quran or pray. Female can recite Surah without touching the Holy Quran. Our religion is not harsh.

zaminabs
7th February 2007, 15:36
Why would you want to lean and recite the Quran on somebdy's lap who is having a period?


I normally dont get into Shia Sunni discussion but I get angry when people say bad things about the AhlulBayt or even deny their virtues. I havent cursed the sahaba yet and never will but I am prepared to point out the bad stuff.


Yes, the likes of Abu Bakr & co did good things but they also did bad things. You say let Allah judge them but then somebody could say let Allah judge Yazeed & Muhaviya? What your position on that?


Let's all pray fro the return of Imam Mehdi(a.s.) the Imam of our time.

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 16:15
Why would you want to lean and recite the Quran on somebdy's lap who is having a period?


I normally dont get into Shia Sunni discussion but I get angry when people say bad things about the AhlulBayt or even deny their virtues. I havent cursed the sahaba yet and never will but I am prepared to point out the bad stuff.


Yes, the likes of Abu Bakr & co did good things but they also did bad things. You say let Allah judge them but then somebody could say let Allah judge Yazeed & Muhaviya? What your position on that?
Let's all pray fro the return of Imam Mehdi(a.s.) the Imam of our time.

Our position is very clear, Allah is the greatest of judge all, OR are you trying to be a judge?

Rudi hater
7th February 2007, 16:21
Abu Muhammad Abdullah Bin Muslim Bin Qutayba Bin Umar Al-Bahili Dinawari, who was one of your ulema and an official Qazi of the city of Dinawar, writes in his famous Ta'rikhu'l-Khulafate Raghibin wa Daulate Bani Umayya, known as Al-Imama wa's-Siyasa, Volume I, page 13: "When Abu Bakr learned that a group hostile to him had assembled in Ali's house, he sent Umar to them. When Umar shouted to Ali to come out and to swear allegiance to Abu Bakr, they all refused to come out. Umar collected wood and said 'I swear by Allah, Who has my life in His control, either you will come out, or I will set the house with all those in it on fire.' People said: 'O Abu Hafsa! Fatima is also present in the house.' He said: 'Let her be there. I will set fire to the house.' So all of them came out and offered allegiance, except Ali, who said: 'I have taken a vow that until I have compiled the Qur'an, I will neither go out of the house nor will I put on full dress.' Umar did not accept this, but the plaintive lamentation of Fatima and the snubbing by others, forced him to go back to Abu Bakr. Umar urged him to force Ali to swear allegiance. Abu Bakr sent Qanfaz several times to summon Ali, but he was always disappointed. At last Umar, with a group of people went to the door of Fatima's house. When Fatima heard their voices, she cried out 'O my father, Prophet of Allah! What tortures we are subjected to by the son of Khattab and the son of Abi Quhafa!' When the people heard Fatima's lamentation, some went back with their hearts broken, but Umar remained there with some others until finally they dragged Ali from the house. They took Ali to Abu Bakr, and told him to swear allegiance to him. Ali said: 'If I do not swear allegiance what will you do to me?' They said: 'We swear by Allah that we will break your neck.' Ali said: 'Will you kill the servant of Allah and the brother of His Prophet?' Umar said: 'You are not the brother of the Prophet of Allah.' While all this was going on, Abu Bakr kept silent. Umar then asked Abu Bakr whether he (Umar) was not following Abu Bakr's orders in this matter. Abu Bakr said that so long as Fatima was alive he would not force Ali to swear allegiance to him. Ali then managed to reach the grave of the Prophet, where, wailing and crying, he told the Prophet what Aaron had told his brother, Moses, as recorded in the Holy Qur'an: 'Son of my mother! Surely the people reckoned me weak and had well nigh slain me.' (7:150)

After narrating this affair in detail, Abu Muhammad Abdullah Bin Qutayba says that Ali did not swear allegiance and returned home. Later Abu Bakr and Umar went to Fatima's house to placate her and to seek her pardon. She said: "Allah be my witness that you two have offended me. In every prayer I curse you and will continue cursing you until I see my father and complain against you. [4]

The above is shia stand on Hadrat Ali(ra) oath. Ali(ra) was lion of Allah and the man who stood up againt Kuffar throughout his life. The man whose sons gave their lives away for our deen. How can you believe in such nonesense?? Ali(ra) would fought as he would have never compromised on anything if there was a danger to Islam. Please don't say that he did for it keep peace and betterment of our religion coz if you say that then you are not only degrading Hadrat Ali(ra) but insulting him too.

kayanni
7th February 2007, 17:16
The month of muharram has a different meaning

Islam has specific rules about mourning the death of person.

At the time of the Prophet SAW did anyone beat themselve with chains etc on the 9/10 day of the month?

So why do we do it now - All muslims agree that the the death of Imam Hussain (RAA) was a very tragic event, as was the death of Hazrat Ali (RAA)

The month of muharram is only remembered for this reason and not principles set out by the prophet SAW for this month i.e why it is prescribed to fast on the 9/10 or 10/11 of this month.

fakhar
7th February 2007, 18:07
I asked you yesterday in another thread and asking you again.
Do you think Muslims like Hazrat Abu Bakr, Hazrat Usman, Hazrat Umar Farooq ll reject sayings of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) for just sake of power?
answer simply Yes or NO.
YES...As a matter of fact they have

zaf1986
7th February 2007, 19:34
Yeah, you would say that. Why am I not surprised.
I am a historian. You are not.

zaf1986
7th February 2007, 19:35
I think it was a valid question. We have never heard Prophet(PBUH) beat himself when mourning. Prove it us that he himself did that.
He cried and beated for Hazrat Hamza and ordered others to do it as well.

Nevertheless, that isn't the point. In Islam, everything is allowed unless proven to be haram. The onus of proof is on you.

Rudi hater
8th February 2007, 02:58
He cried and beated for Hazrat Hamza and ordered others to do it as well.

Nevertheless, that isn't the point. In Islam, everything is allowed unless proven to be haram. The onus of proof is on you.

Fabricated lie. We know prophet (PBUH) cried but beat himself.

Rudi hater
8th February 2007, 02:59
He cried and beated for Hazrat Hamza and ordered others to do it as well.

Nevertheless, that isn't the point. In Islam, everything is allowed unless proven to be haram. The onus of proof is on you.

Causing self harm is HARAM. Don't you know?

Rudi hater
8th February 2007, 02:59
I am a historian. You are not.

You are a shia historian who is blind.

Zechariah
8th February 2007, 03:12
Prophet left two things with us when he departed Quran and his progeny. These two can not be separted...Let me ask you simple question...in order to understand any book you need a teacher...so how can you understand QURAN which is a word of ALLAH without a teacher...Quran can only be taught by people whom Allah has chosen which includesProphet and 12 imams...not by somebody who has been chosen by people

Quran has clearly said that progeny has no importance in Islam. Prophet Abraham had asked Allah if all people from his progeny would get your promose, Allah replied by saying that only the just will get my promise and not the transgressors. Progeny has no importance with Allah.

Zechariah
8th February 2007, 03:14
Have you ever heard of Ghadeer-e-Khum? All I am saying is that Prophet had announced that Hazrat Ali A.S. will be the leader after him. He has been appointed by Allah..

If something is appointed by Allah it happens. Period.

Rudi hater
8th February 2007, 03:29
If something is appointed by Allah it happens. Period.

Nice one bro.

Asim2Good
8th February 2007, 07:08
YES...As a matter of fact they have

Brother then I pray that God show you rite path.
And I can't believe "muslim" of today can even think about questioning faith of Sahabah.

thread is closed for me

zaf1986
9th February 2007, 02:30
Causing self harm is HARAM. Don't you know?
crying is self harm? beating the chest with the hand is self harm? Dude sort it out.

zaf1986
9th February 2007, 02:31
Quran has clearly said that progeny has no importance in Islam. Prophet Abraham had asked Allah if all people from his progeny would get your promose, Allah replied by saying that only the just will get my promise and not the transgressors. Progeny has no importance with Allah.
Ah, but some progenies have importance.

See 3:33. Also 4:54.

Also the hadith about Quran and the progeny of Muhammad is in all the sahihs.

zaf1986
9th February 2007, 02:32
Fabricated lie. We know prophet (PBUH) cried but beat himself.
Whats the use of discussing when you have a closed mind?

zaf1986
9th February 2007, 02:33
Brother then I pray that God show you rite path.
And I can't believe "muslim" of today can even think about questioning faith of Sahabah.

thread is closed for me
Remind me who Surah Munafiqoon was revealed for? For the kuffar? No? Then whom? The so called sahaba.

Rudi hater
9th February 2007, 03:30
crying is self harm? beating the chest with the hand is self harm? Dude sort it out.

Don't lie that prophet(pbuh) beat himself. ITS TOTAL FABRICATION TO JUSTIFY SO CALLED MATHAM. Cutting your back and head with sword is HARAM and is harmful dude. Beating onself is harmfull. Don't lie to cover up your own actions.

Rudi hater
9th February 2007, 03:34
Remind me who Surah Munafiqoon was revealed for? For the kuffar? No? Then whom? The so called sahaba.

So you are saying that Prophet(PBUH) knew who were mufiqeen? According to Sunnis yeah he knew and even told them to get out of their rows name by name. Whats more he was married with Hadrat Ayesha(ra) till he departed this world. Sort it out man don't be a narrow minded in your approach. I doubt Prophet(SAW) would marry someone like that, further more he gave two daughters to hadrat Uthman(ra). Take a chill pill and calm down before debating and insulting some one.

Rudi hater
9th February 2007, 03:36
Ah, but some progenies have importance.

See 3:33. Also 4:54.

Also the hadith about Quran and the progeny of Muhammad is in all the sahihs.
Of course they are important and we respect them.

fakhar
10th February 2007, 03:50
Quran has clearly said that progeny has no importance in Islam. Prophet Abraham had asked Allah if all people from his progeny would get your promose, Allah replied by saying that only the just will get my promise and not the transgressors. Progeny has no importance with Allah.
hold on a second....let me get this right...If I understand correctly are you saying that Prophet Muhammad's Progeny has no importance towards Allah?

fakhar
10th February 2007, 03:55
If something is appointed by Allah it happens. Period.
totally agreed with you there...It does happen and it has happened...otherwise in the Battle of Khyber, the door that took 40 or in some books 80 strong guardsman use to open and close, wouldn't have been taken off by Hazrat Ali a.s. alone...

fakhar
10th February 2007, 03:57
Of course they are important and we respect them.
brilliant doesn't think so

zaf1986
12th February 2007, 03:37
So you are saying that Prophet(PBUH) knew who were mufiqeen? According to Sunnis yeah he knew and even told them to get out of their rows name by name. Whats more he was married with Hadrat Ayesha(ra) till he departed this world. Sort it out man don't be a narrow minded in your approach. I doubt Prophet(SAW) would marry someone like that, further more he gave two daughters to hadrat Uthman(ra). Take a chill pill and calm down before debating and insulting some one.
Did I insult anyone? Did I mention anyone by name? No.

All am I saying is not all the sahaba are good. Surah Munafiqoon proves that.

zaf1986
12th February 2007, 03:38
Don't lie that prophet(pbuh) beat himself. ITS TOTAL FABRICATION TO JUSTIFY SO CALLED MATHAM. Cutting your back and head with sword is HARAM and is harmful dude. Beating onself is harmfull. Don't lie to cover up your own actions.

I'm not justifying cutting yourself up.

Beating the chest is permissible. If you want to call it fabrication, thats up to you.

Boys_played_well
12th February 2007, 03:46
This thread is hilarious!! :))

00_Zed
12th February 2007, 10:32
Hello all.

How come this thread has not been locked yet????

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