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View Full Version : 5th ODI at Kanpur: Stats and team/strategy discussion [12/04/05]



shikari
13th April 2005, 02:16
The next ODI in Kanpur may see Danish Kaneria's exit from the playing eleven. I think they will have Arhad come in the side for DK. Hafeez may be a possibility, but i would go with Arshad.
If batting first, I think Pak will go with YK as the opener. I think Akmal somehow managed to lose his opening slot for unknown reasons.

Batting second, if the team is chasing a huge total then i dont see any changes in the batting order.

Does anyone think that Rana or Sami may be rested for the next game ?

Rob H
13th April 2005, 02:18
YK should be boosted up the order. He is wasted coming in at the end forced to slog.

AFRIDI 4
13th April 2005, 02:23
no i dont thin there should be any chnage to the team or batting line up,as it has worked well for us in the last few games. afrid should reamin openig wheter we bat first or second coz even if we bat first wee need a good starrt and hopefully afridi can produce and so we can get a big total on the board

DM
13th April 2005, 02:24
AFRIDI!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AFRIDI 4
13th April 2005, 02:25
yes DM????????

AFRIDI 4
13th April 2005, 02:30
yes DM??????????????????

;)+

Abdul Qadir 236
13th April 2005, 02:31
stick with Danish. would like to see Shahid Nazir somewhere, maybe for Younis if he is going to be wasted down the list.

AFRIDI 4
13th April 2005, 02:32
how can u replace a bowler with a batsmen, so well only have butt, afridi, malik, yoyo and inzi

Naveed
13th April 2005, 02:34
I would not make any changes. No need to mess with a winning combo. I'd like to see Danish given more of an oppurtunity before dropping him.

Abdul Qadir 236
13th April 2005, 02:34
if Younis is a specialist batsman at 7 or 8 facing about 10 balls it is a token gesture yaar. Every player has to conribute whatever team it is.

Sheikh_Ji
13th April 2005, 02:35
stick with Danish.... give him some time...he'll become an excellent ODI bowler

Naveed
13th April 2005, 02:37
if Younis is a specialist batsman at 7 or 8 facing about 10 balls it is a token gesture yaar. Every player has to conribute whatever team it is.

I would keep Younis in the line-up as he can basically bat anywhere depending on the situation. Yes he has been wasted the last 2 matches, but he would have been pretty handy in the first 2 when we were collapsing!

Abdul Qadir 236
13th April 2005, 02:38
well no one is a more ardent backer of Younis Khan than I am but he has to be utilised properly.

Naveed
13th April 2005, 02:41
Well, I don't see the problem with him being in the middle line-up as a backstop when our top order collapses (which it is prone to do every so often!). I'm convinced that the outcomes of the first 2 matches would have been different had he been in there.

He adds so much on the field too. Why drop him for a 7th bowler?

AFRIDI 4
13th April 2005, 02:42
well said naveed
i totally agree

Abdul Qadir 236
13th April 2005, 02:43
u should pick players for positive reasons and not for the deficiencies of others.

Naveed
13th April 2005, 02:44
u should pick players for positive reasons and not for the deficiencies of others.

We should pick players to win matches under all circumstances.

nedian21
13th April 2005, 02:44
team shd be retained. why change a winning combo. Danish need some time and confidence. and though YK isnt utilised properly but he shd be retained. u never know with Pakistan. and he can held the innings together. plus he gives u real fighting spirit and energy in the field.

Abdul Qadir 236
13th April 2005, 02:46
oh if it was down to me he would always be in the team and batting in the top5 at the worst.

adi 101
13th April 2005, 02:48
i want shoaib akhtar back in the team for the last to odis!!!!!!!!

Abdul Qadir 236
13th April 2005, 02:56
well what i would say is that i would pick my best players regardless of conditions. maybe u can play an extra spinner if necessary but stability is the key i feel, so long as a culture of complacency doesnt set in.
shoaib akhtar should come back in WI as should beera.
world class bowlers are a very rare commodity and Shoaib at least is undoubtedly one of them.

zorawar
13th April 2005, 03:05
Younus is our insurance policy if Inzi and Yoyo fall early so he is ok at #6. If needed he can be sent up or down as he can bat anywhere.

Bottom Line: We need to play Younus.
-----------

Afridi will give you 30-40 runs at opening slot about 25-30% of the time... the rest of the time we will start with the first wicket down in the first few overs. Yesterday also Dhoni dropped a sitter otherwise he was gone for single digits again.

Malik, Inzi and Razzaq's current form and inclusion of Younus gives us enough depth to justify sending in a mindless slogger at open to get the psychological edge.
Bottom Line: Not a good tactic otherwise but perhaps justified in these conditions.
-------------

Kaneria.... if we play him, we play him to get wickets.. at the cost of him going at 10 runs an over. Since Malik is bowling now (I am still not sure how) we have some flexibility in trying him out although I really doubt if he can do much damage in the few overs he can bowl.

The important thing about Kaneria is that I hope we don't mess up his confidence by giving him 3-4 overs every game where he keeps getting stick. Then again dropping him at this point will also probably not do wonders for hi confidence.

Bottom Line: What the hell.. lets keep playing him as well since neither of the other options are exactly our players for the future... If he gets one of the top 6 out... it will be worth playing him

pakistani pride
13th April 2005, 03:13
We DONT NEED YOUNIS KHAN FOR ODIs !!!

malik is a fine number 3 bat and razzaq proved again he can bat without trying to hit every ball !

Afridis role is to get a quick 35-40 runs so we are off to a flyer after that we have enough batters who can continue. younis khan comes to late and he has to slog i feel sorry for him cause that is not helping his cause. maybe yoyo shud be RESTED so younis can play but at the moment i wud drop younis for a bowler ( s. nazir)

The indians have been crying about gangs but if we play hafeez or younis then you have a player in the team who is not needed. !!! i wud play the extra bowler in next 2 games

Cartman
13th April 2005, 03:19
I think after what has happened so far in the series, we should play like 9 batsmen and Sami and Rana.. Get Younis and Malik to bowl alongwith Inzi, Butt etc. Put maybe Hafeez in there..



Because regular bowlers go for 6-7 an over too.. I don't think part time bowlers could do worse.. its ridiculous how the face of cricket has changed.. anything around 220 used to be a good total. 250 plus used to be a winning total. 270 plus would virtually seal a win. now you score 300 and still lose it..


I don't know what sort of watered down, or whatever you wanna call it, wicket they have over there and even in Pakistan.. or maybe its just the general mentality these days. quick singles and doubles has been turned into an art, we have reduced options for bowlers, batsmen are more slog happy than ever etc, but its producing really batsman friendly contests..



I DONT LIKE THAT.

I cannot really have any suggestion for who should play or not play at this point.. It seems to me you put a pace attack of Wasim, Waqar, Mcgrath, Thompson out there with Qadir, Warne, Kumble and Murali to back them and they would still end up getting hit for close to 300 runs..

Maybe we should not play bowlers at all...

how annoying!

shikari
13th April 2005, 03:23
PP,

Keep in mind YK's fielding is a plus in ODI's. The four catches and the crucial run out of Sehwag brings a lot of value to the team. I strongly believe that YK will open the innings if we happen to bat first or chasing a target of 275 or under.
Adding another bowler in the team is useless in my opinion, these dead pitches are not conducive to any kind of bowling. The end result of playing an extra bowler may just be the same which wont be a wise move if done at the expense of a batsman.

Saj
13th April 2005, 03:23
I would stick with the same team. They have had 2 good victories and whilst Danish has gone for runs, I think he deserves at least one more chance this series.

pakistani pride
13th April 2005, 03:28
true danish deserves to get another chance but shikari if younis plays he needs to come in before number 5 otherwise its a waste and i dont see a spot form him there and you cant be playinf alone by the reason that you can field well

if we had nezir for example or rao our bowlers wud have more rest and more options for inzi

Cartman
13th April 2005, 03:29
You cannot kick your Vice kuptaan out.. he is your guy for the future..

shikari
13th April 2005, 03:29
Saj,

I dont think sticking to the same team is a good move. Winning 2 games in a row does not mean that we should stop looking for improvements. Chasing 300 + does not happen everyday, we should be looking to improve the containment of runs. Bowling DK for 3 overs in this game really mean that we played with 10 specliat players and a substitute. If we are going to see a high scoring affair for the remainder of the series then we should bolster our batting by bringing hafeez who can bowl if needed. Next game if India scores 300 + and DK goes for runs or not used for a substantial amount, we may see a lot of media bashing on that

Cartman
13th April 2005, 03:33
we should sit out kaneria and bring in Nazir..

Butt
Afridi
Razzaq
Malik
Inzi
Youhana
YK
Akmal
Sami
Rana
Nazir

Three pacers and 2 spinners.
I would like that.. Kaneria goes for too many runs.

Hash
13th April 2005, 03:35
NEVER change a winning combination

The only change I can see is maybe Rao or Nazir in for Kaneria

shikari
13th April 2005, 03:37
Hash,
lol, kinda conflisting statements in a single post.

NEVER change and then the only change you see.

zorawar
13th April 2005, 03:38
true danish deserves to get another chance but shikari if younis plays he needs to come in before number 5 otherwise its a waste and i dont see a spot form him there and you cant be playinf alone by the reason that you can field well

if we had nezir for example or rao our bowlers wud have more rest and more options for inzi



Wait till we get one of our famous mini collapses.... then you will cry to have Younus in there...

YOUNUS IS OUR INSURANCE POLICY. Keep him in there. We don't need any more bowlers... more bowling options will confuse Inzi even more :$

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 03:40
rao for kaneria
S nazir for sami

rest same as b4....

Noddy
13th April 2005, 03:45
i see the same side for kanpur.

shikari
13th April 2005, 03:45
AJ,

why do you think that Nazir can do better than Sami ?

Cartman
13th April 2005, 03:45
Honestly the game they are playing in India these days is not cricket..


I mean God's sakes.. you can expect to win even if you play 2 regular medium pacers, 1 part time spinner, the bush twins and artist formerly known as Prince...

the only condition is they should know how to make quick 15-20 runs in the last overs.

hhehe..

But seriously.. do we really need bowlers? Chacha Bob was right all along. He has proved us wrong every step..

Even in tests.. jeez.

I refuse to pass any comments from now on.

pakistani pride
13th April 2005, 03:52
well thats india

zorawar i say its hard on younis to come in and bat for 10 balls !

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 03:55
AJ,

why do you think that Nazir can do better than Sami ?

read my thread on "rise of rana and decline of sami"

then u can answer ur own question....

;)+ ;)+

shikari
13th April 2005, 03:56
OK
that is it this thread should be closed effective immediately.
Noddy Bhai just said no changes in the team. Any discussion on team composition from this point on is just mere noise

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 03:59
we can still speculate its fun....

Cartman
13th April 2005, 04:00
I say we keep the same side or at the most bring in Nazir or Rao for Kaneria..

If we are chasing anything close to 300, open with Afridi and go for broke..

If we are batting first try YK to open. I have faith in his ability to give us a good start.. with the heavy hitters at the end, we can get to 320-350 easily if we bat anything like we batted today.


In fact the way we played today if continue that form, and tighten up our bowling and fielding a bit, we can easily win the series.

kashmiri
13th April 2005, 04:07
my fave 11


advani
sonia
rahul
manmohan
vajpayee
priyanka
modi
sehgal
bal thakarey
jaswant
uma bharti


(mis)manager jethmalani



manager bush senior

Hydro
13th April 2005, 04:07
personally id drop kaineria for hafeez

and maybe sami for someone (to rest him)

AFRIDI 4
13th April 2005, 04:09
y rest him, this is the decisve odi, we need to win to have eny chace of winnig the series

Ayubi
13th April 2005, 04:21
drop younis khan or kaneria for shahid nazir.

razzler
13th April 2005, 04:22
No changes please.

merabhai
13th April 2005, 04:51
we should sit out kaneria and bring in Nazir..

Butt
Afridi
Razzaq
Malik
Inzi
Youhana
YK
Akmal
Sami
Rana
Nazir

Three pacers and 2 spinners.
I would like that.. Kaneria goes for too many runs.

3 pacers and twospinners ...wat about razzaq?

13th April 2005, 04:58
Kaneria needs to replaced by Nazir/Rao or Arshad/Hafeez. All depends on the pitch. If its anything liek today Arshad Khan should play

161
13th April 2005, 04:59
We need Shoaib and Shabbir back now !! What the F is the PCB waiting for - India to score 400 runs and then say OK we can use them now ???

Our Bowling attack should be Rana, Shoaib, Shabbir, Razzaq, Afridi, Malik.

It Shoaib and Shabbir are still not called back - bring in Nazir for Danish (not Rao - he has had his opportunity, and so far he does not look like a wicket taking bowler in international cricket )

Cartman
13th April 2005, 05:42
we should sit out kaneria and bring in Nazir..

Butt
Afridi
Razzaq
Malik
Inzi
Youhana
YK
Akmal
Sami
Rana
Nazir

Three pacers and 2 spinners.
I would like that.. Kaneria goes for too many runs.

3 pacers and twospinners ...wat about razzaq?


I knew I was missing something. thanks Mera Bhai...

:)

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 13:53
venue 5 Kanpur

indian record (played 8) - won 6 lost 2

pakistan neva played on the ground

highest score chased - 255 by eng v india 89/90

quite a low scoring ground

one of indias more favoured venues....

pakistani pride
13th April 2005, 14:00
finally a low scoring ground ???

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 14:13
The highest score batting 1st is 257 and highest overall 259(chasing 255 to win)

pakistani pride
13th April 2005, 14:19
good to hear !..

+

MIG
13th April 2005, 14:20
259 is nothing for us :)

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 14:20
KANPUR, April 12: Cricket fans in Indian city of Kanpur are complaining about non-availability of tickets for fifth One-day International to be played between India and Pakistan at Green Park Stadium here on Friday.

Although mercury here touched 40 degrees centigrade, hundreds of cricket lovers thronged different branches of Central Bank to get match tickets. However, they remained empty-handed because tickets for the match had already been sold out for the day and therefore they were unable to issue more tickets.

Every person standing in queue was given a token and only token holders were allowed inside bank premises in batches. Counters were designated for different denominations. Each token holder was issued two tickets. But, within a few hours organisers closed counters, saying 2000 tickets were sold out.

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 14:51
From 2-0 down to 2-2 has been a fantastic achievement, but that could all be irrelevant if pakistan lose the next two odis.

pakistan went into this ODI series as favourites and with the momentum after having a previous 4-0 head to head recent record and after winning the 3rd test....

yet all that postiveness was wiped out with defeats in 1st two odis....

pakistan once agen have the momentum... pakistans batsmen are begining to fire, yet the bowlers seem to be just intent on containing and settling to fact india are gona score heavily which is a poor line off thinking.

These two games shud be threated as a semi-final and final by pakistan.

Pakistan must blow it like they did last year.....

series is 2-2 ... NO clear favourites...

Awesome Anjum
13th April 2005, 14:54
Agreed, AJ bhai. I've got a funny feeling that this series will end up as being 3-3.

Pax
13th April 2005, 15:09
Nagpur pitch = Perth .

Abdul Razzaq/Sami and Rana would find it to their liking.

Nawazb
13th April 2005, 15:14
i would not play kaneria i would play s nazir

so my side
salman
afridi
s malik
inzi
yoyo
younis
kamran
sami
rana
s nazir

MIG
13th April 2005, 15:18
KANPUR, April 12: Cricket fans in Indian city of Kanpur are complaining about non-availability of tickets for fifth One-day International to be played between India and Pakistan at Green Park Stadium here on Friday.

Although mercury here touched 40 degrees centigrade, hundreds of cricket lovers thronged different branches of Central Bank to get match tickets. However, they remained empty-handed because tickets for the match had already been sold out for the day and therefore they were unable to issue more tickets.

Every person standing in queue was given a token and only token holders were allowed inside bank premises in batches. Counters were designated for different denominations. Each token holder was issued two tickets. But, within a few hours organisers closed counters, saying 2000 tickets were sold out.

I wonder if BCCI have heard of a thing called Internet ?

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 15:19
intresting how last 3 odis have gone same as the 1st three odis in 2004 series...

similar type games aswell...

MIG
13th April 2005, 15:40
so you see pak choking in the last 2 , as they did in the Gaddafi ? Scary thought but possible.

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 15:54
so you see pak choking in the last 2 , as they did in the Gaddafi ? Scary thought but possible.

sadly i have a funny feeling about it....

arsal_pakfan
13th April 2005, 15:54
From 2-0 down to 2-2 has been a fantastic achievement, but that could all be irrelevant if pakistan lose the next two odis.

pakistan went into this ODI series as favourites and with the momentum after having a previous 4-0 head to head recent record and after winning the 3rd test....

yet all that postiveness was wiped out with defeats in 1st two odis....

pakistan once agen have the momentum... pakistans batsmen are begining to fire, yet the bowlers seem to be just intent on containing and settling to fact india are gona score heavily which is a poor line off thinking.

These two games shud be threated as a semi-final and final by pakistan.

Pakistan must blow it like they did last year.....

series is 2-2 ... NO clear favourites...

completely agree with u Amjid bhai!

really we can't pick any favourite at the moment!...all we should do is just pray and hope for a similar performance from our team in the next ODI's!

Indians r not gonna make it easy for Pakistan with Ganguly out ,there is huge happiness in Indian camp and also Kumble is back and he could be lethal on Indian pitches!

lets hope fo the best!

Jonty
13th April 2005, 16:12
i mean.. why have six one dayers when you want a result in a series?

Nauman
13th April 2005, 16:35
i would not play kaneria i would play s nazir

so my side
salman
afridi
s malik
inzi
yoyo
younis
kamran
sami
rana
s nazir
I endrose this team, as I said before the 4th ODI that we need a 3rd seamer as Razzaq cannot bowl inside first 15 overs, his strength is the old ball and the reverse swing he gets with it. If either one of Sami or Rana are going for runs Inzi can bring on the third seamer which will either be Rao or Nazir. Though I woul prefer Nazir but we all know that Inzi rates Rao over Nazir.

nedian21
13th April 2005, 16:37
yar Nawaz we should not change the winning combo. and Danish need some time to settle in one day mode. He hasnt played that much one dayers. beside Inzi shd attack with him and give him confidence and I am sure Dani will come good. I also want to see nazir in side but not at the expense of Dani. may be Sami but then why change a winning combination. i hope Shahid nazir gets his chances in WIndies provided he is selected again which I doubt since Shabbir, Shoaib will be back

tahaqureshi
13th April 2005, 16:38
Nagpur pitch = Perth .

Isn't it being played in Kanpur?

Karachi King
13th April 2005, 16:40
these high scoring matches have changed the frame of mind of many people (atleast here in Karachi). i remember the ODIs series in Pak with India. people were started to think 290s as an easy target to chase. i can see that happening in the next match. no matter what will be the score, no matter if its above 300, people will consider it as an easy target to chase & if any team will fail to chase it, they will feel the heat from their country.

Ganguly's exclusion is a big blow for Pak. his pressence meant alot for us. there was a possibility that his bad form with the bat would hit him in his cataincy as well & he start getting -ve in his captaincy. but now he is out of here & Dravid is a true professional & also an inform batsman from India. we will have to work really hard in the next one.

Aneel

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 16:47
my team

butt
afridi
inzi
malik
yoyo
razzaq
akmal
sami
rana
rao
s nazir

YK is being wasted in side and kaneria needs 2 be dropped.

tahaqureshi
13th April 2005, 17:00
AJ's included sami!

the winds of change are blowing :)) :))

just joking amijd

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 17:10
AJ's included sami!

the winds of change are blowing :)) :))

just joking amijd

it was either hafeez or sami.... so i chose the lesser of two evils

arshad and kaneria are no nos at moment!

Hash
13th April 2005, 17:27
YK has picked up some vital wickets in the field and is good batsman. He should remain in the side and his batting postion decided by team position...ie if we have lost early wickets then we need someone to steady the ship. He is a versatile player and a team player.

I would stick with exactly the same team minus Danish bhai who I would replace with Rao Iftikhar Anjum.

tahaqureshi
13th April 2005, 17:30
amazingly, any team that won the toss and decided to bat has always lost and by margins of 6-9 wkts

Jahangir Khan
13th April 2005, 17:38
For the next game, I would stick with the same side but if it is known that the wicket will not suit spin, then maybe we should drop Kaneria and bring in Rao/Nazir.

Although we won the 4th ODI, I didn't totally agree with the batting line up. It is silly to put 3 of our hitters in the top 4 whilst putting Youhana and YK at 6 and 7. In effect, 3 of our bowlers bowled their full overs and then batted in the top 4. I would only play Razzaq at 3 if we lost an early wicket and needed to score fast off the seamers. Otherwise I would send in Malik or YK.

My line up would be:

Butt
Afridi
YK/Malik
Inzi
Youhana
Malik/YK
Razzaq
Akmal
Sami
Rana
Kaneria/Rao

It just does not make sense to play your 3 best batsmen at 5,6 and 7. YK and Youhana need time to settle and play a long innings where as Razzaq and Malik can play the big shots more or less as soon as they come in. I would play Malik at 6 so that he can hit indian spinners when they are bowling at the end.

I doubt very much that Razzaq and Malik would have batted at 3 and 4 if we were batting first in the 4th match.

Hash
13th April 2005, 18:37
Jhangir- i thinkthe batting order was more to do with needing a good start. It worked.

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 19:55
YK has picked up some vital wickets in the field and is good batsman. He should remain in the side and his batting postion decided by team position...ie if we have lost early wickets then we need someone to steady the ship. He is a versatile player and a team player.

I would stick with exactly the same team minus Danish bhai who I would replace with Rao Iftikhar Anjum.

YK isnt worth a place in odi squad as a batsmen, his records a joke and god knows why hes picked agen and agen....!

better players have been given less chances than YK.

krazy--dude
13th April 2005, 20:25
wats wrong with all u people saying than shahid nazeer should come in

if rana or sami have to sit out the first choice backup is rao and not nazeer

nazeer didnt do anything special with the a team and i dont know how he got called over yasir arafat

whyhkk
13th April 2005, 20:34
We need a medium pacer not a fast baller or a spinner. Since our spinners and fast bowlers got hammered, and razzzq did not, it would be beneficial for us to include nazir or rao. Plus apparently they both swing the bowl a lot too, which helps a great deal.

Hash
13th April 2005, 20:59
YK has proven his doubters wrong in the test matches and will do so in one days. Just watch.

His very presence in the field makes him a better option than some muppet like Hafeez or even a bowler like Nazir. How many wickets did Younis take in the 3rd odi? How many runs did he save us with those catches which, let's be honest, judging by our catchign form in recent times, anybody else would have dropped. How many runs did he save us with his direct hit to get Sehwag in 4th odi which somebody like Nazir would not have even attempted and Hafeez would have thrown for 4 overthrows.

Naz
13th April 2005, 21:41
Hafeez is a crap fielder despite what aamir sohail thinks.
It doesn't matter if you cant pick up a single ball without fumbling it and misfielding it, as long as you hold onto your catches!!! Hafeez hasn't got the guts to hold onto catches, so who cares about ground fielding. Younis Khan should definitely be in team for his catching and attitude.
When you talk about Pakistani defeats, faces like hafeez and shoaib akhtar come into my head. When pak victories occur, faces like saqi, danish, and younis khan come in my head.

Amjid Javed
13th April 2005, 21:41
how many runs has he scored with bat?

thats his job....

Naz
13th April 2005, 21:47
Before this series, Sehwag had a poor odi record, yet after his amazing test series, he has done really well in odi's. Same could apply for younis Khan but he must come up the order.

But i think his positive mindframe affects all the players snd they go out to enjoy cricket. When you have people like taufeeq and hafeez in the team, playing cricket seems like a burden to the team and a real mushkil in their lives.

Hash
13th April 2005, 21:52
well as far as I see it......whatever he 'job' is he would bring more to the team than someone like Nazir who Sehwag and co would take to the cleaners with their eyes closed.


At least with YK in the field there is constantly the possibility of a wicket falling at any time. He could pull off a blinding catch or a direct hit. Sehwag on his way back to the pavilion to eat his aloo paratha and drink his lassi.

Nazir? Only one person will be thinking of benig back in the pavilion at it will be Nazir, when Sehwag wallops him to all corners.

Younis saves runs in the field, he takes wickets in the field.......therefore he benefits the team. As a batsman I only count the last game as a failure as in the 3rd ODI he came in the slog overs and you can't blame him for getting out......everybody does as that time. Even the last game......he was looking pretty good. Went for a silly 3rd run but it needed to be a good throw to get him.

Younis khan or Shahid Nazir? Younis Khan any time
Younis Khan or Hafeez? Younis Khan any time

Geordie Ahmed
13th April 2005, 23:26
YK did not play the 1st and 2nd ODI and we lost
YK played the 3rd and 4th ODI and we won

Need i say more

AsimL8
13th April 2005, 23:34
people fail to realize that Younis being "wasted" is actually a very good thing! It means that our top order is performing. Who's to say we won't be 20 for 3 in the next game, and Younis will play a vital role then.

Raz
13th April 2005, 23:54
So far he hasnt been used effectively. He has batted in the past few games when the Pakistan innings was about to end. He is much better higher in the order and this is where he should be.

Hash
13th April 2005, 23:58
people fail to realize that Younis being "wasted" is actually a very good thing! It means that our top order is performing. Who's to say we won't be 20 for 3 in the next game, and Younis will play a vital role then.


agree!

Amjid Javed
14th April 2005, 00:33
wow gr8 stuff hash. comparing s nazir to Yk.

can i have this weeks lottery numbers aswell.

so tell me where do u get this 100% concrete proof that s nazir wud be slaughtered by shewag...

come on

i thought u had some sense... all ur doing is going off ** make blv....

Rob H
14th April 2005, 00:38
Kanpur, another flat pitch zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Karachi King
14th April 2005, 00:41
i think Kaneria will be droped for Rao & the team will remain the same. i said this because Inzi doesn't seems to have much faith in Kaneria for ODIs. he didn't used Kaneria well in at Ahmedabad. although he had gone for runs but so as many other bowlers.

in the end it seems like lack of faith of Inzi on Kaneria will cause another pacer to come in.

Aneel

salmanbuttfan
14th April 2005, 00:50
this is the team in order batting first/low indian score

Salman Butt
Shahid Afridi
Shoaib Malik
Younis Khan
Inzamam ul Haq
Yousaf Youhana
Abdul Razzaq
Kamran Akmal
Muhammad Sami
Rana Naveed
Danish Kaneria

Pakistan Team batting second/high indian score

Salman Butt
Shahid Afridi
Abdul Razzaq
Shoaib Malik
Inzamam ul Haq
Yousaf Youhana
Younis Khan
Kamran Akmal
Muhammad Sami
Rana Naveed
Danish Kaneria

Hash
14th April 2005, 00:59
amjid- I'm just saying Younis gives a lot to the team, even if he doesn't bat full stop!

Who knows how much we would have ended up chasing had it not been for his direct hit?

And if we lose early wickets he would be the perfect guy to come out and steady the ship.

Amjid Javed
14th April 2005, 01:08
amjid- I'm just saying Younis gives a lot to the team, even if he doesn't bat full stop!

Who knows how much we would have ended up chasing had it not been for his direct hit?

And if we lose early wickets he would be the perfect guy to come out and steady the ship.

hash, Yk took 4 catches and got sum run outs mashallah! thats great.

however, think about it... we have 7 front line batsmen + rana/sami

thats 9 players who can bat ... now why do we need a tenth?

now consider these points -->

In batsmen friendly conditions u shudnt have to use most off ur batsmen therefore they are wasted...

whats best way off reducing a run chase? Take wkts... therefore pick another bowler....

if u picked u get another bowler and still got batting....!

Hash
14th April 2005, 01:18
amjid- good point and I do not deny that it is true. HOwver, I just feel that Younis in the field can gain us the wickets by taking the catches/hitting the stumps that an extra bowler would! I think he would save a few runs in the field as well.

Amjid Javed
14th April 2005, 01:29
thats fine hash, point taken.

Hash
14th April 2005, 01:33
what sort of a wicket in Kanpur can we expect? The same as the last 4 one days or maybe different considering the Kanpur history?

Amjid Javed
14th April 2005, 01:41
traditionally kanpur has actually favoured swing bowlers and spinners that can get the ball to grip the surface...

the ball will swing maybe more than it has elsewer..

the wicket will be still a good one but bowlers will get more assitance then elsewer...

the wicket will be like that one in peshawar last year where early on in both inns ball seemed to swing and grip surface for sum bizare reason.

Hash
14th April 2005, 01:59
thanks amjid

possibility of winning the toss and bowling by the sounds of things


or perhaps.....it isn't as good a toss to win as it has been so far in this series

the_game
14th April 2005, 02:22
I want Ganguly back, damn it :( .

Geordie Ahmed
14th April 2005, 08:53
I want Ganguly back, damn it :( .

He has appealed so i think he may play the remaining games while the ICC decide :D> :D> :D> :D>

mooze
14th April 2005, 09:10
hafeez in for kaneria should be only change...
if early wicket then razzaq otherwise shoaib and then inzi..........

MIG
14th April 2005, 12:32
Check out venue stats at:

Rediff
http://in.rediff.com/cricket/ind05ven.htm

Apologies for the formatting...

Kanpur (Green Park)
Venue for: Fifth ODI, April 15, 2005

Country Mts Won Lost NR
India 8 6 2 0
Sri Lanka 3 1 2 0
West Indies 2 2 0 0
England 2 0 2 0
Zimbabwe 2 0 2 0
Australia 1 0 1 0


Highest team total
for India : 259-4 (48.1 overs) vs England on 25-10-1989
vs India : 257-6 (50 overs) by West Indies on 30-10-1994

Lowest team total
for India : 78 (24.1 overs) vs Sri Lanka on 24-12-1986
vs India : 165 (45.4 overs) by Zimbabwe on 11-12-2000

Highest individual innings: for India 106 (off 110 balls) VG Kambli vs Zimbabwe 06-03-1996
102* (off 158 balls) M Prabhakar vs West Indies 30-10-1994
101* (off 96 balls) C Sharma vs England 25-10-1989
100 (off 88 balls) SR Tendulkar vs Australia 07-04-1998
vs India 91 (off 109 balls) AJ Lamb for England 25-10-1989


Best bowling in a match: for India 5-24 (6.4 overs) J Srinath vs Sri Lanka 07-11-1993
5-34 (10 overs) SC Ganguly vs Zimbabwe 11-12-2000
4-25 (9.4 overs) AB Agarkar vs Zimbabwe 11-12-2000
4-46 (10 overs) AB Agarkar vs Australia 07-04-1998
vs India 4-14 (6 overs) A Ranatunga for Sri Lanka 24-12-1986

Raz
14th April 2005, 13:27
A highest score of only 259?!?!

MIG
14th April 2005, 13:32
And slightly better news for Pak Bowlers is that the best figures are from seamers, excluding Ranatungas contribution.

tahaqureshi
14th April 2005, 14:29
then in this case I do believe that kaneria should be dropped, allowing either rao iftikhar or shahid nazir to come in.

MIG
14th April 2005, 15:40
I would dearly like Nazeer to play - have heard so much about him.

Vegitto
14th April 2005, 16:17
presence of senior players motivates the whole team.

inzy cannot motivate every player. younis khan has made sure that the team is alive when fielding.

took 4 catches, and 2 run outs.

yoyo, inzy, and khan are the seniors of the team. they shouldnt be dropped as other players look upto them

Hash
14th April 2005, 16:57
102* (off 158 balls) M Prabhakar vs West Indies 30-10-1994


:))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :)))


I remember him :))) :))) :))) :))) :)))

This bowling performance by him naturally comes to mind

4-0-47-0 :))) :))) :))) :))) :))) :)))

vs Sri Lanka in 1996 world cup group game. He never played for India again!

Naz
14th April 2005, 17:07
Kaneria should play. He was only given 3 overs and he bowled mostly his unnatural line from around the wicket.

He is an excellent wicket taking bowler from over the wicket and can really frustrate batsmen if he gets his rhythm. NO HAFEEZ PERIOD.

He should be given an extended run and become a permanent member of our odi side. I think that playing ODI'S will also improve his test bowling as he will learn how to keep the runs down as weell as take wickets. Therefore in tests he might end up with figures of say 5-70 rather than 5-150.

Also pakistan win when he pplays and lose when hafeez plays.

Hash
14th April 2005, 17:14
I agree.

Mohammed Hafeez is a complete and utter liability. He should never play for Pakistan again.

Amjid Javed
14th April 2005, 21:10
The Green Park in Kanpur has been a lucky venue for India they have won six out of eight games, and every one of their last four matches. The last time they lost a one-day international here was more than ten years back, in October 2004, when West Indies beat them by 46 runs. Since then, the Indians have beaten Zimbabwe (twice), England and West Indies. Pakistan haven't played an ODI here.


Going by past record, the Indian captain might be tempted to field first if he wins the toss. Five of India's six wins here have come when chasing a target, and they've all been very convincing wins too the closest margin was by six wickets with 11 balls to spare against England in the Nehru Cup in 1989-90. That was the match in which Krishnamachari Srikkanth, the Indian captain, made what turned out to be an inspired change to the batting line-up chasing 256, India were 65 for 2 when out walked Chetan Sharma at No. 4. He blasted 101 from just 96 balls, and India were home in a canter.


Winning the toss isn't such a blessing here in nine games, the team losing the toss has won on seven occasions, including the last five ODIs.


And this should cheer up the bowlers from both camps the highest score by the team batting first is 257, made by West Indies in 1994, and only twice has 250 been topped. In fact, that match against West Indies almost 11 years back is still remembered for the infamous go-slow tactics by Manoj Prabhakar and Nayan Mongia. Both dawdled at the crease instead of going for the runs Prabhakar's unbeaten 102 spanned 154 balls, while Mongia was not out on 4 from 21 as India finished up on 211 for 5. In the last four ODIs here, the team batting first has scored 218 (in 39 overs), 165, 222 and 247.


Both seamers and spinners have done reasonably well here. Since 1996, the fast bowlers have 30 wickets at 32.43, with an economy rate of 4.89, while spinners have accounted for 16 wickets at 38.44 (economy rate 4.57). The Indian spinners have done much better, though, averaging only 28.69 and conceding only 4.12 per over.


Kanpur has been one of the more prolific venues for Sachin Tendulkar, who has scored 312 from six games at 78, including one century and two half-centuries.

Amjid Javed
14th April 2005, 21:11
"I've never seen so many policemen in my life," said a local shopkeeper as I made my way past bamboo barriers, fortified steel gates and police keeping watch on every corner around Green Park in Kanpur, where India and Pakistan will play the fifth one-day international of the six-match series tomorrow. They have every reason to be watchful. The local arm of the Shiv Sena a political party not known for peaceful protests recently suggested that they would make their presence felt.

Inside, business was frenetic, as the day preceding a major event tends to be. There was chaos around the stairs as a press conference was announced. The media hustled Rahul Dravid and Younis Khan, crowds swamped around the net area, and right in the middle of a circle of green, inspected by men in teapot poses, was a pale pitch, devoid of any colour. But the wicket, for which questions of the day are usually reserved, found itself upstaged by Sourav Ganguly's six-match ban. Will he play or won't he? Dravid appeared undisturbed: "We have not been intimated about it. We're preparing as normal." Later, a team member said that Ganguly was in Kolkata, so perhaps he would not be playing. Dravid spoke about the series now resting on two days, about how it was a task the team was eager to undertake: "It's a great challenge. The team's looking forward to it. I hope to get support from the squad."

The pitch then did garner its proper share of attention. "The pitch appears slow," answered Younis when asked for his opinion. "It's difficult to predict," said Dravid. "There will be some low bounce, though not much help for the fast bowlers."

Even so, Dravid expects the bowlers to apply themselves with more verve than they did at Ahmedabad, where Pakistan finally achieved the first successful run-chase of the series. Both he and Younis said that batting first would be preferable, though Dravid thought the pitch would behave the same throughout the match. If Pakistan won the toss, he said simply, India would have to restrict them by getting past the more accomplished batsmen. "Their top order has done well. Inzamam [ul-Haq], [Yousuf] Youhana [and the others] have hurt us badly."

Younis added Shahid Afridi to that list: "Shahid is playing well. He hits 30-40 runs in 15-16 balls." It was his primal batting that got Pakistan going at Ahmedabad. "The boys are playing well," he summed up, and with regards to Pakistan being front-runners now, added: "When you play well, you win." That was the underlying theme of Dravid's talk with the press, too. "We'll have to score big runs and play good cricket for 100 overs. We've played well in patches previously. We didn't bowl or defend runs well. We've learnt from some of the things [we did wrong]. Sometimes it just comes down to utilising skills better."



Dravid and Inzamam-ul-Haq have a peek at the pitch Getty Images



Dravid was reminded that India have not won a major one-day series at home for nearly five years. He smiled and said, "We believe we can do it. We have the players to do it." Dhoni was one of those players, he suggested, but he needed to perform consistently. "He has to play a lot more. He has talent and has shown good cricket sense. He has the capability to do it." Asked if Dhoni's arrival came as relief for himself, Dravid said with a grin, "The team is relieved, the [opposition] bowlers aren't."

Conditions, as they are in India in the awkward months between winter and the monsoons, continue to remain oppressive. And Kanpur, already regarded as a hot-spot for pollution, is more uncomfortable these days as it becomes hotter. But Dravid played down the weather, saying that there were only two more games to go; it could not be used as an excuse.

Both teams were guarded about the team composition, though Younis inadvertently gave an insight into Pakistan's likely team: "If there are no injuries, there are no changes." But the Indians had more to contend with after back-to-back losses as well as Ganguly's possible absence. There was the likelihood of Dinesh Mongia playing, and though Dravid said he was one of a few options, he acknowledged that Mongia's bowling would be as important as his batting. Anil Kumble could also make the cut on a pitch that might assist slow bowlers.

Ticket queues at 5am - as there were today - tell a story. A press card starts cricket conversations and debates with strangers in unlikely places. It wins you smiles. There's a language being spoken here, one that has no need of words.

India (probable) 1 Virender Sehwag, 2 Sachin Tendulkar, 3 Mahendra Singh Dhoni (wk), 4 Rahul Dravid (capt), 5 Dinesh Mongia, 6 Yuvraj Singh, 7 Mohammad Kaif, 8 Anil Kumble, 9 Zaheer Khan, 10 Lakshmipathy Balaji, 11 Murali Kartik.

Pakistan (probable) 1 Salman Butt, 2 Shahid Afridi, 3 Shoaib Malik, 4 Younis Khan, 5 Inzamam-ul-Haq (capt), 6 Yousuf Youhana, 7 Abdul Razzaq, 8 Kamran Akmal (wk), 9 Mohammad Sami, 10 Naved-ul-Hasan, 11 Danish Kaneria.

from cricinfo

MIG
14th April 2005, 21:13
Kanpur has been one of the more prolific venues for Sachin Tendulkar, who has scored 312 from six games at 78, including one century and two half-centuries.



That is one thing I didnt want to hear !! Hope they dont bowl that stupid legside line to him and maybe the cameraman should get a helmet if they do that !

Amjid Javed
14th April 2005, 21:20
Kanpur has been one of the more prolific venues for Sachin Tendulkar, who has scored 312 from six games at 78, including one century and two half-centuries.



That is one thing I didnt want to hear !! Hope they dont bowl that stupid legside line to him and maybe the cameraman should get a helmet if they do that !

:))) :)))

Naz
14th April 2005, 22:02
They weren't used to bowling that leg stump line as they are not used to cheating unlike sachin who even ganguly has said "he has mastered it"

Naz
14th April 2005, 22:04
They weren't used to bowling that leg stump line as they are not used to cheating unlike sachin who even ganguly has said "he has mastered it" :))) :)))

And sachin was really good at playing that line himself probably cos he has studied everything about it. For him the line is not the 'Corridor of uncertainty' but it is more like 'The corridor up the batsmen's a$$' that he loves so much.

MIG
14th April 2005, 22:05
Array Naz - choro all this business about cheating/gamesmanship etc - just win the match and bowling on that legside line was a disaster - I hope thats not what BW and Inzi refer to as "planning" a dismissal ! Just get the buggers out and win the game !!

Cartman
14th April 2005, 22:23
I wish they would even spare 5 minutes into "planning" a wicket. Looks like they don't care..

Its just two or maybe 3 wickets that we need. Sehwag, Dhoni and Dravid, because they give them a fast and aggressive start. If only they carefully plan out how to get them early Pakistan would have the edge.

Uzi
15th April 2005, 00:42
Weather for Kanpur:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=2299

waquas_uk
15th April 2005, 00:47
arshad has picked more wickets in the tourney and has also played more odis on the other hand danish a great test bowler not as good in odis and so far gone for a few

my choice would be arshad khan and you???

zulfiqar
15th April 2005, 00:48
Shahid nazir

cricketcrazy
15th April 2005, 00:49
yeh Arshad khan Kaneria will go for runs. i think so if v can pick Rao or Nazir that would be much better

Awesome Anjum
15th April 2005, 00:50
RI Anjum

waquas_uk
15th April 2005, 00:50
arshad has this nag of picking up wickets

Amjid Javed
15th April 2005, 00:51
RI Anjum

is he as awesome as you? :D

waquas_uk
15th April 2005, 00:54
i guess in india u need a specialist spiner and its hot so having four seamers could land inzi in trouble

Sniper
15th April 2005, 01:00
danish. he needs experience in odi format. he aint gonna get that eong consistently dropped. bear with him. he will be thenext shane warne

waqar-uk
15th April 2005, 01:04
wow its a long thread so this might have posted before.

Judging by the way pitch plays at Kanpur, the toss in terms of batting 1st or 2nd will not matter as the pitch will be true throughout the day. However, becuase of the weather (too hot) it will be wise to bat first so the opposition is worn down when they chase. Also it is always an advantage to have the runs on the board first. Having said that 7 out of last 9 matches have been won by team losing the toss.
As for the pak team, I think we shud play same except bring in Arshad for Kaneria as the pitch will be on the slower side and thus suit the slow off spin rather than the leg break of kaneria.

waqar-uk
15th April 2005, 01:05
Arshad becuase pitch is slow and will suit off spinners more than the leg break.

suhaib
15th April 2005, 01:09
we need someone who can bowl in the middle overs and thats were arshad will get slapped around the park.

Karachi King
15th April 2005, 01:10
i have heard on Geo tv that Sami & Kaneria are going to be dropped. i think Rao & Arshad are going to take their places.

Aneel

Mercenary
15th April 2005, 01:14
neither. rao or nazir!!

161
15th April 2005, 01:16
NEITHER !!!

obviously.


rana, nazir to take the new ball - razzaq and and rao next , and then afridi and malik when the ball gets a little older.

pakistani pride
15th April 2005, 01:19
None for me i want to see shahid nazir ~!

Amjid Javed
15th April 2005, 01:22
Weather for Kanpur:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?world=2299

thank god no rain :))

Rob H
15th April 2005, 01:50
lol

Rob H
15th April 2005, 01:59
Rao introduced is the choice for me

Pax
15th April 2005, 02:03
According to geo .... Sami and Kaneria have been dropped for Arshad and Rao.

Sami has an ankle injury.

scifinite
15th April 2005, 02:03
nazir nazir!

Hash
15th April 2005, 02:11
Geo said that last time as well

scifinite
15th April 2005, 02:12
nooooo

161
15th April 2005, 02:16
I was just going over cricinfo stats for the ODI series and this caught my eye -

Name Mat O M R W Ave Best 4w 5w SR Econ

Abdul Razzaq 4 34.3 1 182 1 182.00 1-50 - - 207.0 5.27


1 for 182 wowowowowowo !!!!

anyway-

why Rao over Nazir ???

Nazir seemed to be very threathening in the warm up , while Rao was nothing special (according to cricinfo commentary guy ).


and finally -
it's my 1000 post \:D/ <:P

Hashim
15th April 2005, 02:16
I hope this is false like normal.

Hash
15th April 2005, 02:18
Hashim- I think it probably is. Geo did say last time that Sami was being rested and he wasn't.

If such news had been confirmed by the Pakistan camp it would most certainly have been on cricinfo.

AFRIDI 4
15th April 2005, 02:23
has noddy not given us any team news yet

Pax
15th April 2005, 02:26
Hash, cricinfo publishes their match previews around 12 PM GMT , the team meeting is held at 2-3 PM , thats why they usually don't get the teams right.

The geo correspondent said that the above team had been selected in the team meeting.

cricketcrazy
15th April 2005, 02:28
nope didnt see a post from NODDY, but i read at bbc and hindustantimes that younus said no team chaneg will be the same team.

Hash
15th April 2005, 02:33
Pax- I know but cricinfo do still sometimes get breaking news later on and if the Pakistan camp had announced that Sami was not playing it would have come up.

I remember before the 4th ODI Geo said exactly the same thing.......Sami out, Rao in. Did it happen? No.

Therefore I will believe this piece of news when I see it.