It is about time...that Pak Management Made a Decision...!!!

[Monsee]

Yes, love me or hate me, I strongly believe (And many here would agree now) that Pak Management needs to take a stand and send a strong message to our 'Only' Match Winner'...

i.e., if he does not take better care of his body (Improves flexibility, looses some serious weight, stops his retarded Chain Smoking, increases longevity, Put more emphasis on Playing Cricket and Less on 'Drama Queen' like behavior (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=50362) etc. etc.), he will not be picked AGAIN!

What good is a bowler, when the series/match is on the line...he is no where to be seen? (Pak vs India 2004, Pak vs India now, Pak vs 'Any XYZ Team in Last 10 Years except a Few Odd Vital Matches...)

And every time we select him, we end up needing a Razzaq like 5th bowling option to cover for his fragile and Injury Prone Body!

Either he improves his 'Match Fitness' by some distance or he should not be picked again cause what good is a match winner when he is mostly not there when we need him anyway!

P.S. Yeah, yeah, yeah...he did last almost the whole series but from the first over of this series, anyone with even a 'White Stick and a Walking Dog' could see that he is bound to get injured any minute (He was huffing and puffing like a 70 year old after every ball)

[willegg]

Could you qualify Pak Mangement. Do you mean PCB Board or team management or both?

I say this because Team management request a player, but the board either agrees to the request or provides the player the deem most appropriate

[W63L35]

Yes, love me or hate me, I strongly believe (And many here would agree now) that Pak Management needs to take a stand and send a strong message to our 'Only' Match Winner'...


Before that, somebody needs to send a "strong message" to the Pak management who keeps letting Shoaib Akhtar act/behave/play/etc the way he does.......plus for 100s of other things that are wrong with the team!!!

[Oxy]

I forget that this woeful tour is down to one player....

[deviously~fading~away]

Yes, love me or hate me, I strongly believe (And many here would agree now) that Pak Management needs to take a stand and send a strong message to our 'Only' Match Winner'...

i.e., if he does not take better care of his body (Improves flexibility, looses some serious weight, stops his retarded Chain Smoking, increases longevity, Put more emphasis on Playing Cricket and Less on 'Drama Queen' like behavior (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=50362) etc. etc.), he will not be picked AGAIN!

What good is a bowler, when the series/match is on the line...he is no where to be seen? (Pak vs India 2004, Pak vs India now, Pak vs 'Any XYZ Team in Last 10 Years except a Few Odd Vital Matches...)

And every time we select him, we end up needing a Razzaq like 5th bowling option to cover for his fragile and Injury Prone Body!

Either he improves his 'Match Fitness' by some distance or he should not be picked again cause what good is a match winner when he is mostly not there when we need him anyway!

P.S. Yeah, yeah, yeah...he did last almost the whole series but from the first over of this series, anyone with even a 'White Stick and a Walking Dog' could see that he is bound to get injured any minute (He was huffing and puffing like a 70 year old after every ball)
That 'Only' Match Winner is the only person in the Pakistan team who actually gets a strong message from the insult on the name Board, that is PCB> Rest of the players get away scotch free all the time, no matter what they do!

[W63L35]

I forget that this woeful tour is down to one player....
"aik machlee saray talaab ko ganda kar daiti hai" :D

But serisously though, like I said...there is much more than Shoaib this time. Specially;
1) Not selecting the players playing ICL. (e.g. Razzaq for ODIs).
2) Captaincy joke/crisis....ala Younis/Malik.
3) Some of the totally mind boggeling selections for the test matches....ala Sami playing in 3rd test, Akhta play in 2nd test, Not playing Yasir in 2nd test, taking a specialist spinner (Rahman) with the team but not playing him on any of the "dust bowls", giving Yasir Hameed and Fasail a chance ahead number of other options.
4) Not dropping Kamran.

...to name a few!

[iZeeshan]

To be fair, the man played 5 ODIs and 2 tests after 18 month layoff with speeds of 96 MPH at times.

[deviously~fading~away]

Also i rather see the so called Pak Management first make a decision regarding Sami, Yasir, Kamran & Dani than Akhtar.

[Tay'yab-Ali Malik]

Its not just the absence of SA that has hurt us..losing both Gul & Asif was a massive blow.

Afridi has a tremendous test record against the Indians. His mere presence is enough to intimidate the opposition.

Our batting has done reasonably well but unfortuantley we just did not have the firepower to take 20 wickets.

Finally critics have already written Pak off; Pak doesn't have a prayer to win this test and the the writing is on the wall-however this game is not over yet.

We survived karachi, mohali & kolkata -we only need a prayer.

[Tay'yab-Ali Malik]

"aik machlee saray talaab ko ganda kar daiti hai" :D

But serisously though, like I said...there is much more than Shoaib this time. Specially;
1) Not selecting the players playing ICL. (e.g. Razzaq for ODIs).
2) Captaincy joke/crisis....ala Younis/Malik.
3) Some of the totally mind boggeling selections for the test matches....ala Sami playing in 3rd test, Akhta play in 2nd test, Not playing Yasir in 2nd test, taking a specialist spinner (Rahman) with the team but not playing him on any of the "dust bowls", giving Yasir Hameed and Fasail a chance ahead number of other options.
4) Not dropping Kamran.

...to name a few!

what has kamran done in this series to be dropped?

[Amir]

There are alot more players who should be kicked out before Shoaib. I say retire in ODIs and just focus on tests where we need him more.

[W63L35]

what has kamran done in this series to be dropped?
:20:
You MUST not be watching because if you were, you would not have to ask!

[khatri]

what has kamran done in this series to be dropped?

Are You serious mate??.

I think he is one of the major causes of Pakistan`s decline in last 18 months. He has completely destroyed many bowlers and team`s confidence. I do`nt how many matches Pakistan has to lose and how many dubious records to create before we stop this. I for one do not waste my money to watch this team carrying people like akmal.

[Monsee]

To be fair, the man played 5 ODIs and 2 tests after 18 month layoff with speeds of 96 MPH at times.


And he helped us win how many games?

Speeds can go to heck when we cannot rely on the man when we really need him; and anyone can tell you (A Neutral Cricket Fan) that it is Shoaib's Fitness that stinks, big time!

[Monsee]

There are alot more players who should be kicked out before Shoaib. I say retire in ODIs and just focus on tests where we need him more.


I have been advocating it since the 2004 Indian tour when he gained enormous amounts of weight and started looking like a Kabbaddi Player rather then a Fast Bowler

[Sultan Yusuf]

Monsee, I am seriously worried about your obsession. Wouldn't it be easier just to send shoaib a love letter?

[in_cutter]

Monsee, I am seriously worried about your obsession. Wouldn't it be easier just to send shoaib a love letter?

lol

[Kriketer]

Don't expect anything rational from a Pathetic Cricket Board (PCB).

[Monsee]

Monsee, I am seriously worried about your obsession. Wouldn't it be easier just to send shoaib a love letter?


But I hear he is a one biaatc.h man and is seriously involved with a certain Naveedaa Bayeee :21:

[Monsee]

I see exactly the kind of reaction (I was expecting) from Pak fans...rather then accepting that this disease (Leech) has been causing us major issues since 1994-95...everyone points to other Players/Management!

He knows the kind of mentality Pak fans have...they see a few 90+ MPH balls, a few stares, a few grunts, few bouncers, a few Show Man like stunts and they start having their Kucchaas in a twist!

Shoaib is the perfect man to do all the above and then retreat to Pavilion when the going gets tough like it did in this Test Match; you lot deserve him, Sami and the rest!

Shoaib gets away with another act of cowardice due to his blind fans...

[Showman]

Hey Monsee, who's been Pakistan's best bowler this whole tour?

[W63L35]

Shoaib gets away with another act of cowardice due to his blind fans...

Who lets him get away with it? You can't blame fans for selection policies! Do you think Faisal would have been playing if it was up to the fans?

[Bilsher007]

Since the time i have commenced watching international cricket never have i come across a totally futile and ridiculous bowler. As far as pakistan cricket is concerned this is the most luckiest bowler to have been given unlimited amount of chances or opportunities to prove his critics wrong.

But i am afraid this is my observation and of those who i have spoken to who have played, watched and understand the game thoroughly that sami is nothing but a club level bowler.There is only point that come to my mind and that is he has to gave extremely strong connection in the pcb hierachy. How else can others who had better ability than sami, who have been performing year after year at the domestic circuit be it first class and one day level have been ignored in a very biased manner. The likes of experienced bowlers tahir mughal, wasim khan, abdur rauf, mohammed irshad,najaf shah and the likes of new promising young bowlers anwer ali, jamshed ahmed and akhter ayub being deliberately being ignored.

How long can pakistan cricket operate with administrators, officials and selectors who don't know to do their job or perhaps the very people who are not fit for these noble positions ???. I am very disgusted today and finally our opportunity to level the series has been blown out of the window like a strong breeze blowing a leaf into oblivion. And sami is not the only incompetent bowler is not the only one, kaneria too has been ineffective for the last six series. Kaneria has been a lost sheep in series vs india 2006, eng 2006, WI 2006, SA 2006 and now in this current series vs India 2007. Where is rotation policy ? There should have been a policy designed to have a back up player of each and every player in the playing squad so they is a cycle of perpetual pressure to consistently perform.

For example we should have introduced a second wicket keeper in view of kamran akmal's consistent failure to lift performance with gloves and bat over the last year and a half. The likes of zulqarnain haider or mohammed salman or sarfraz ahmed could have been introduced earlier than later to give kamran an opportunity to rest, recuperate and revitalise himself for a refreshing comeback at a later stage with all deficiences worked out. The pcb selectors could have introduced an off spinner as well or another leg spinner to make kaneria's position in the test team challenged.Spinners like mujahid jamshed,mohammed usman and others. The likes of taufeeq umar and naved latif should have been given a long run so that we never felt short of capable openers. The likes of hasan raza and asim kamal could have been played whilst yousuf and younis rested for a series or two so we knew we have a back up. The likes of abdur rauf, mohammed irshad, najaf shah, anwer ali and shahid nazir could have been played whilst asif,gul and asif were nursing injuries in the last series at hone against south africa. Why the reluctance to try with deserving performers ?


It has always been the case of pressure mounting on the pcb adminsitrators and selectors to make sensible changes in the squad only when ex players, experts throught media have spoken out after each disaster hitting pakistan belive the whole pcb need revamping. All it's employees working for personal goals need to be fired and in their places should be people occupying position according to merit based on their qualification and on their knowledge of the game. People who would do justice to role assigned to them. I have been saying this to friends who watch cricket avidly and to all brothers here at pakpassion that the administrators in pcb are destroying cricket at pakistan. As it turns out it is exactly the case.

I am not finished, i have a lot to say with a lot of pain. We lost the bilateral one day series to india in india after 24 years and it looks like today after the end of day 2 of third and final test that the test series jinx will also be broken after 27 years.

[Somali Pirate]

hehe well that did'nt take long did it? The best bowler all tour and yet the blame should lie with him. Waah pakistan please retire shoiab as soon as possible.

[Monsee]

Hey Monsee, who's been Pakistan's best bowler this whole tour?



8 Wickets in two Tests...yeah that is 'Earth Shattering'...our only Match Winner has done his part and now can take another deserved vacation...AGAIN!

[bala977]

IMHO

Akhtar plays more to impress girls & **** commentators than to bring victory to Pak. He definitely seems to recover his full health in Oz (where he is rumoured to have quite a social life) and to some extent, in England.

[Monsee]

IMHO

Akhtar plays more to impress girls & **** commentators than to bring victory to Pak. He definitely seems to recover his full health in Oz (where he is rumoured to have quite a social life) and to some extent, in England.



Oh no, you are just a jealous Inzi type Mullah...you hate him cause Shoaib is such a Match Winner and you are a nobody...

You should be thankful that he is on our side even though he just sits in the dressing room while the rest of the team is out there having 'FUN' on the field

[zam]

there is no competion inside the pak team to earn the place.....pcb somehow needs to create that healthy trend.....we need brain storming for the captain and the whole team before the test series starts.....how to get 20 wickets,what tools they have and how to make 350 runs and at what rate.....and to recalculating the target when to be.....we put every thing for the ground and at the desposal of the mere captain.....the whole team should be the part of the scheme.......this is not the matter of unfit bowlers or bats because nowadays the game has gone way ahead and it is very difficult to keep oneself 100%.......no body ever will be or was upto that mark.....so what is the solution......keep a second troup of bowlers handy......and they should be announced before the tour begins.....it does not matter to change the faces...change the mentality.

[deviously~fading~away]

I see exactly the kind of reaction (I was expecting) from Pak fans...rather then accepting that this disease (Leech) has been causing us major issues since 1994-95...everyone points to other Players/Management!

He knows the kind of mentality Pak fans have...they see a few 90+ MPH balls, a few stares, a few grunts, few bouncers, a few Show Man like stunts and they start having their Kucchaas in a twist!

Shoaib is the perfect man to do all the above and then retreat to Pavilion when the going gets tough like it did in this Test Match; you lot deserve him, Sami and the rest!

Shoaib gets away with another act of cowardice due to his blind fans...
And I see exactly the kind of reaction (I was expecting) from Monsee...

[Amoeba]

Obviously I agree with Monsee bhai's comments. However the problem is that the time to make that decision was actually 10 years ago not now. Shoaib is beyond reproach and will never change. He is the proverbial leopard. There is no point in wasting time or energy on him. If our selectors and management committees are so spineless that they constantly need to return to him, only to be embarrassed and kicked in the nether regions once again, so be it. Some people, like Shoaib, are beyond help and in that sense the PCB, Gullible Pakistani fans and Shoaib deserve each other. Society get the politicians that it deserves. Similarly you get the sportsmen that you deserve.

However once a line in the sand is finally drawn on the fitful and pitiful career of this modern day Sarfraz the PCB needs to think about the future. Discipline is important, especially as the world has moved on to a more professional environment. We need to ensure that we do not make the same mistakes with genuine talents such as Gul and Asif that we made with the Rawlpindi Ruffian.

At least here there is one positive sign. Shoaib merely was a superstar in the age of the speedgun. He became famous not, as in the past, where bowlers would be reknowned primarily for taking wickets, but merely for bowling fast. The sudden publicity suited his attention seeking ways. Throw in the mix that he was not somebody who shared a deep bond with the game or a student in any way shape or form and certainly not of cricket's history, meant that his main motivation was greed and adulation, not taking wickets. This resulted in him hurtling into the blind cul-de-sac in trying to achieve the imaginary speed record of 100mph - imaginary as it is almost certain that Thompson bowled considerably faster and more consistently but unfortunately for him no speed guns were around to record the fact for eternity. What we do know is that way after his peak, hampered by injury, Thompson still racked up in excess of 99mph in a speed contest.

Gul and Asif will never win any speed records and therefore do not even try. They instead concentrate on those old fashioned, but seemly forgotten qualities of line, length, perseverance, determination and most of all taking wickets. For that, and that alone we should all be grateful.

[jackal786]

Obviously I agree with Monsee bhai's comments. However the problem is that the time to make that decision was actually 10 years ago not now. Shoaib is beyond reproach and will never change. He is the proverbial leopard. There is no point in wasting time or energy on him. If our selectors and management committees are so spineless that they constantly need to return to him, only to be embarrassed and kicked in the nether regions once again, so be it. Some people, like Shoaib, are beyond help and in that sense the PCB, Gullible Pakistani fans and Shoaib deserve each other. Society get the politicians that it deserves. Similarly you get the sportsmen that you deserve.

However once a line in the sand is finally drawn on the fitful and pitiful career of this modern day Sarfraz the PCB needs to think about the future. Discipline is important, especially as the world has moved on to a more professional environment. We need to ensure that we do not make the same mistakes with genuine talents such as Gul and Asif that we made with the Rawlpindi Ruffian.

At least here there is one positive sign. Shoaib merely was a superstar in the age of the speedgun. He became famous not, as in the past, where bowlers would be reknowned primarily for taking wickets, but merely for bowling fast. The sudden publicity suited his attention seeking ways. Throw in the mix that he was not somebody who shared a deep bond with the game or a student in any way shape or form and certainly not of cricket's history, meant that his main motivation was greed and adulation, not taking wickets. This resulted in him hurtling into the blind cul-de-sac in trying to achieve the imaginary speed record of 100mph - imaginary as it is almost certain that Thompson bowled considerably faster and more consistently but unfortunately for him no speed guns were around to record the fact for eternity. What we do know is that way after his peak, hampered by injury, Thompson still racked up in excess of 99mph in a speed contest.

Gul and Asif will never win any speed records and therefore do not even try. They instead concentrate on those old fashioned, but seemly forgotten qualities of line, length, perseverance, determination and most of all taking wickets. For that, and that alone we should all be grateful.

Very nicely phrased. :14:

[161]

Desperate ranting in the opening post.

tell me how fast was waqar when he was 32 ?

how long did it take for zahid and gul to break down ?

express pace comes at a cost to the body.. especially with a short guy like shoaib who was to put all kinds of pressure on his body to bowl so quick.

[161]

smoking - what evidence do u have that he is a chain smoker ?

regarding his weight - he's slimmed down a lot in this tour .. he is now at his optimum weight .. the rest is just muscle bulk that he obviously can't get rid of.

regarding increasing his flexiblity - that's got to be the most retarded statement of the bunch - shoaib's problem is that he is too flexible - his lose joints make him prone to injury !!

[Sultan Yusuf]

Amoeaba bhai, where exactly are Gul and Asif?

I know you don't like shoaib. We all know that - but what the hell are the other bowlers doing? The ones you consider something special are injured themselves.

The ones that are not injured are doing nothing. In these desperate times, what choice do we have. Of course we want the ideal work ethic from everyone - but different situations demand different courses of action.

Our bowling is pathetic - especially our ridiculous spinner. This is not the time to "teach lessons".

As I've said before, if the selectors took a decision to weed out all the crap, then weed out ALL of them. That includes Sami, Rao, Kaneria. Even Gul and Asif don't particularly impress me. If we take a decision to bring in the new bowlers (e.g. U19 boys and co), get rid of the rest (including shoaib) forget results for a few years, have some radical way of thinking, I would be all for that.

But we won't. We will continue losing and trying the same old failures over and over again. And it's ironic that the only one that isn't a failure is shoaib himself.

[Indiafan]

Obviously I agree with Monsee bhai's comments. However the problem is that the time to make that decision was actually 10 years ago not now. Shoaib is beyond reproach and will never change. He is the proverbial leopard. There is no point in wasting time or energy on him. If our selectors and management committees are so spineless that they constantly need to return to him, only to be embarrassed and kicked in the nether regions once again, so be it. Some people, like Shoaib, are beyond help and in that sense the PCB, Gullible Pakistani fans and Shoaib deserve each other. Society get the politicians that it deserves. Similarly you get the sportsmen that you deserve.

However once a line in the sand is finally drawn on the fitful and pitiful career of this modern day Sarfraz the PCB needs to think about the future. Discipline is important, especially as the world has moved on to a more professional environment. We need to ensure that we do not make the same mistakes with genuine talents such as Gul and Asif that we made with the Rawlpindi Ruffian.

At least here there is one positive sign. Shoaib merely was a superstar in the age of the speedgun. He became famous not, as in the past, where bowlers would be reknowned primarily for taking wickets, but merely for bowling fast. The sudden publicity suited his attention seeking ways. Throw in the mix that he was not somebody who shared a deep bond with the game or a student in any way shape or form and certainly not of cricket's history, meant that his main motivation was greed and adulation, not taking wickets. This resulted in him hurtling into the blind cul-de-sac in trying to achieve the imaginary speed record of 100mph - imaginary as it is almost certain that Thompson bowled considerably faster and more consistently but unfortunately for him no speed guns were around to record the fact for eternity. What we do know is that way after his peak, hampered by injury, Thompson still racked up in excess of 99mph in a speed contest.

Gul and Asif will never win any speed records and therefore do not even try. They instead concentrate on those old fashioned, but seemly forgotten qualities of line, length, perseverance, determination and most of all taking wickets. For that, and that alone we should all be grateful.


Surprisingly, one could say the same about Afridi's batting. A hankering for strike rates rather than any other goal. At a time where strike rates are given importance in cricket he just quests for the same and nothing else. he got success and adulation at a young age for having a huge strike rate and hitting sixes and he has been striving for the same ever since.

[Genghis]

I think this entire thread can be used not only for Shoaib, but for the entire fast bowlers of Pakistan. Fitness, physique is all poor. None of our bowlers are able to last for more than a couple of test. That is a serious concern for them all not just Shoaib.

The only issue I have with Shoaib is that often with him, he will break down in the middle of a game rather than pull out before the toss.

[Monsee]

smoking - what evidence do u have that he is a chain smoker ?


Bob mentioned it a few times, Noddy has confirmed it too, and Usman on Cricinfo and a few others I think have reported it too!

And did I mention he suffers from Asthma too?







regarding his weight - he's slimmed down a lot in this tour .. he is now at his optimum weight .. the rest is just muscle bulk that he obviously can't get rid of.



Whether it is muscle or Bulk, he still need to tone down as you have even said 'especially with a short guy like shoaib'...for his height and body type, he is still too bulky!





regarding increasing his flexibility - that's got to be the most retarded statement of the bunch - shoaib's problem is that he is too flexible - his lose joints make him prone to injury !!


Can you be any more dumber...I doubt it!

His flexing joints and 'Increasing Flexibility in the over all body' are two totally different things...especially when we talk about a Fast Bowler who does try to bowl fast all the time!

Lets just say, you are talking about a Kabbadi Player AKA Shoaib's Flex Joints and I am talking about Flexibility of the body as in the case of Imran, Donald, Holding etc. etc.

Got it Dumbo :P



.

[Monsee]

Obviously I agree with Monsee bhai's comments. However the problem is that the time to make that decision was actually 10 years ago not now. Shoaib is beyond reproach and will never change. He is the proverbial leopard. There is no point in wasting time or energy on him. If our selectors and management committees are so spineless that they constantly need to return to him, only to be embarrassed and kicked in the nether regions once again, so be it. Some people, like Shoaib, are beyond help and in that sense the PCB, Gullible Pakistani fans and Shoaib deserve each other. Society get the politicians that it deserves. Similarly you get the sportsmen that you deserve.

However once a line in the sand is finally drawn on the fitful and pitiful career of this modern day Sarfraz the PCB needs to think about the future. Discipline is important, especially as the world has moved on to a more professional environment. We need to ensure that we do not make the same mistakes with genuine talents such as Gul and Asif that we made with the Rawlpindi Ruffian.

At least here there is one positive sign. Shoaib merely was a superstar in the age of the speedgun. He became famous not, as in the past, where bowlers would be reknowned primarily for taking wickets, but merely for bowling fast. The sudden publicity suited his attention seeking ways. Throw in the mix that he was not somebody who shared a deep bond with the game or a student in any way shape or form and certainly not of cricket's history, meant that his main motivation was greed and adulation, not taking wickets. This resulted in him hurtling into the blind cul-de-sac in trying to achieve the imaginary speed record of 100mph - imaginary as it is almost certain that Thompson bowled considerably faster and more consistently but unfortunately for him no speed guns were around to record the fact for eternity. What we do know is that way after his peak, hampered by injury, Thompson still racked up in excess of 99mph in a speed contest.

Gul and Asif will never win any speed records and therefore do not even try. They instead concentrate on those old fashioned, but seemly forgotten qualities of line, length, perseverance, determination and most of all taking wickets. For that, and that alone we should all be grateful.


Agreed 100% but I can at least hope for a better future, can I or is that such a forgone conclusion in the hopeless case of Shoaib!

[Amoeba]

Amoeaba bhai, where exactly are Gul and Asif?

I know you don't like shoaib. We all know that - but what the hell are the other bowlers doing? The ones you consider something special are injured themselves.

The ones that are not injured are doing nothing. In these desperate times, what choice do we have. Of course we want the ideal work ethic from everyone - but different situations demand different courses of action.

Our bowling is pathetic - especially our ridiculous spinner. This is not the time to "teach lessons".

As I've said before, if the selectors took a decision to weed out all the crap, then weed out ALL of them. That includes Sami, Rao, Kaneria. Even Gul and Asif don't particularly impress me. If we take a decision to bring in the new bowlers (e.g. U19 boys and co), get rid of the rest (including shoaib) forget results for a few years, have some radical way of thinking, I would be all for that.

But we won't. We will continue losing and trying the same old failures over and over again. And it's ironic that the only one that isn't a failure is shoaib himself.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say that now was the time to teach lessons. We are where we are and that means we had to pick our best fittest bowler who currently happens to be Shoaib. My central argument is that because of mistakes made throughout Shoaib's career we are now dependent on somebody, who in my honest but albeit biased opinion (as is anyone's), has personality flaws which prevents him from reaching his potential. This has been my opinion ever since I first came across him playing junior representative cricket as a teenage tearaway in every sense of the word. Too many captains, including the one for his first overseas tour - a certain Amir Sohail, have tried to understand, nurture and protect when probably a mighty whack with a size 10 chappal to the backside would have got better results.

My other argument is that as an attention seeker he spent too much of his career in aiming for the false goal of merely bowling fast. Something which he has even admitted to. Nearly everyone here, on both sides of the fence, believe that fast bowling takes an enormous toil on the body, in particular on the body of someone like Shoaib which doesn't appear to be able to cope with the stresses and strains. The question therefore arises that why did he try to bowl fast when his body is plainly not up to it? In the "good old days " before celebrity come dancing it wasn't unknown for fast bowlers to try their hand at spin as a way to prolong their career. This was because they loved playing and due to economic restraints had to for as long as possible. Shoaib, I would argue, is no great admirer of the game (it is merely a path for fame and fortune) and secondly has become financially independent so that he never required a long career in the first place.

Yes bowlers get injured - it has been part of the game ever since the beginning. This current series shows the effect of the modern day torturous workload on players from both sides. However Gul and Asif have both suffered from persistent injuries - a triple stress fracture of the back and a troublesome elbow respectively. Shoaib's problem has more often than not been minor niggles. Something which is highlighted by the frequent breakdown during the progress of a game which is a Captain's and his fellow bowlers' worst nightmare.

The question is why. Is it because he doesn't look after himself the way that a professional sportsman, who wants to run 35 yards 6 times every 5 mins about 20 times in a 6 hour day, should? The fact that as an asthmatic he stills enjoys smoking would suggest stupidity of the highest order on two counts. Secondly is it because he pushes his body beyond his limits? Again everyone would agree I think. My view is merely that he does this because it is an ego thing to be the fastest on either side rather than the highest wicket-taker.

[Sultan Yusuf]

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say that now was the time to teach lessons. We are where we are and that means we had to pick our best fittest bowler who currently happens to be Shoaib. My central argument is that because of mistakes made throughout Shoaib's career we are now dependent on somebody, who in my honest but albeit biased opinion (as is anyone's), has personality flaws which prevents him from reaching his potential. This has been my opinion ever since I first came across him playing junior representative cricket as a teenage tearaway in every sense of the word. Too many captains, including the one for his first overseas tour - a certain Amir Sohail, have tried to understand, nurture and protect when probably a mighty whack with a size 10 chappal to the backside would have got better results.

My other argument is that as an attention seeker he spent too much of his career in aiming for the false goal of merely bowling fast. Something which he has even admitted to. Nearly everyone here, on both sides of the fence, believe that fast bowling takes an enormous toil on the body, in particular on the body of someone like Shoaib which doesn't appear to be able to cope with the stresses and strains. The question therefore arises that why did he try to bowl fast when his body is plainly not up to it? In the "good old days " before celebrity come dancing it wasn't unknown for fast bowlers to try their hand at spin as a way to prolong their career. This was because they loved playing and due to economic restraints had to for as long as possible. Shoaib, I would argue, is no great admirer of the game (it is merely a path for fame and fortune) and secondly has become financially independent so that he never required a long career in the first place.

Yes bowlers get injured - it has been part of the game ever since the beginning. This current series shows the effect of the modern day torturous workload on players from both sides. However Gul and Asif have both suffered from persistent injuries - a triple stress fracture of the back and a troublesome elbow respectively. Shoaib's problem has more often than not been minor niggles. Something which is highlighted by the frequent breakdown during the progress of a game which is a Captain's and his fellow bowlers' worst nightmare.

The question is why. Is it because he doesn't look after himself the way that a professional sportsman, who wants to run 35 yards 6 times every 5 mins about 20 times in a 6 hour day, should? The fact that as an asthmatic he stills enjoys smoking would suggest stupidity of the highest order on two counts. Secondly is it because he pushes his body beyond his limits? Again everyone would agree I think. My view is merely that he does this because it is an ego thing to be the fastest on either side rather than the highest wicket-taker.

Of course it's well known that he went for speed before anything else. But it's not as if he doesn't take wickets either is it? In the process of going for speed - he has one of the best strike rates of all time!

Personally - as much as I would like shoaib to play for as long as possible, the notion that he should slow down or try his hand at spin is quite perplexing. The main thing he brings is pace. Whether by design or accident, the Pakistan cricket team NEED his pace. Would you be happier if he gave up and turned unto a medium pace trundler who lost the ability to take wickets or have any potency in his bowling? Would your respect for him increase?

I do feel I have to defend him because it seems people judge him using different rules. You mention Gul and Asif having serious injuries but shoaib having minor niggles. Not exactly fair is it? The rib-groin problem was pretty serious (and some actually doubted he would ever come back from that). More recently he had knee surgery which kept him out for quite a while.

So yes, he's an idiot, yes he is an attention seeker, yes he probably isn't a role model - but he can bowl. And currently just "being able to bowl" is a rare commodity in pakistan cricket!

[Monsee]

Of course it's well known that he went for speed before anything else. But it's not as if he doesn't take wickets either is it? In the process of going for speed - he has one of the best strike rates of all time!


Has he done that more recently i.e. in going for speed, gotten a bunch of wickets?

Lately (For the last couple of years), it's been 'Shock, Horror' the Line-n-Length or smart variations in pace, line, and tactics etc. that got him most of his wickets!

In this ongoing test, he tried to bowl with pace (Much to the liking of his idiotic fans who see PACE = Everything) only to see him nullified easily by Indian openers; he was all over the place and also bowling a bit too short...had he bowled with controlled aggression, variations in pace, and tried to bowl by using his brain; he would have been more successful and Pak would still be in the game!

But he tried to bowl too fast, and the results are there for everyone to see; his body in terms of durability is like that of a 50 year old and yet his brain and the 'Blind Fans' tell him he can still be the speed king...'May Long Live the King' even if it is only on the side lines

[Sultan Yusuf]

Has he done that more recently i.e. in going for speed, gotten a bunch of wickets?

Lately (For the last couple of years), it's been 'Shock, Horror' the Line-n-Length or smart variations in pace, line, and tactics etc. that got him most of his wickets!

In this ongoing test, he tried to bowl with pace (Much to the liking of his idiotic fans who see PACE = Everything) only to see him nullified easily by Indian openers; he was all over the place and also bowling a bit too short...had he bowled with controlled aggression, variations in pace, and tried to bowl by using his brain; he would have been more successful and Pak would still be in the game!

But he tried to bowl too fast, and the results are there for everyone to see; his body in terms of durability is like that of a 50 year old and yet his brain and the 'Blind Fans' tell him he can still be the speed king...'May Long Live the King' even if it is only on the side lines

What are you on about??

They played him with ease, nullified? - yes of course Dravid and Yuvraj meant to get hit on their bodies! They planned it all along!

He was all over the place?? Hmm...10 overs for 20 odd is "all over the place"??

Yes of course, let's blame shoaib's 10 overs for the whole mess we're in. Let's forget that Sami bowled like...well...himself, Arafat for the most part bowled the wrong line, and Danish was again completely ineffective.

[deviously~fading~away]

What are you on about??

They played him with ease, nullified? - yes of course Dravid and Yuvraj meant to get hit on their bodies! They planned it all along!

He was all over the place?? Hmm...10 overs for 20 odd is "all over the place"??

Yes of course, let's blame shoaib's 10 overs for the whole mess we're in. Let's forget that Sami bowled like...well...himself, Arafat for the most part bowled the wrong line, and Danish was again completely ineffective.
The problem here is that every Pakistani fan expects so much from Shoaib Akhtar & Shahid Afridi that when they fail the whole blame of losing the match goes to them. We forget that Pakistan field 11 players during the match not 2! This thread been the perfect example.

[Amoeba]

The problem here is that every Pakistani fan expects so much from Shoaib Akhtar & Shahid Afridi that when they fail the whole blame of losing the match goes to them. We forget that Pakistan field 11 players during the match not 2! This thread been the perfect example.



Many seem to forget that when we win as well which is more of a problem.

So much so that some plonkers here suggest if it wasn't for Shoaib we wouldn't be in this series. I must have missed it when he hit a match-saving century or shared a massive partnership with Misbah and Akmal in the last game.

[Amoeba]

....Anyway let's hope he can bowl us to victory in this game.

[Monsee]

....Anyway let's hope he can bowl us to victory in this game.



Our only Match Winner...EVER :21:

[Amoeba]

Our only Match Winner...EVER :21:


Well if he took 2 or 3 quick wickets all his fans would soon forget about Misbah and claim he had won the match for us no doubt.

[siddharth]

Our only Match Winner...EVER :21:
This is a conspiracy ,now i know :D .Bring back Akhtar bashing so that he will perform at his best .