Announcement - PP Battrick league 3

[Hari Sombar]

Due to the league this season, with Izee's difficulties I have realized that there is too much pressure to run the leagues as a one man job.

Straight Bat and I have decided to step up and run next seasons league. We feel that with two of us there will be less pressure, more co-ordination and smoothness.

[Straight Bat]

Yep, me and Hari have talked this over and if anyone has any objections we'd gladly discuss this and like to win you over to our side.

Anyway, as hari said, we plan to make this an efficient and smooth league.

Communication is the key, not only between us but also all the other participants.

Hopefully, we'll get as many numbers as this years tournament.

[Saj]

SB, I just sent you a PM.

[Straight Bat]

replied!

[MCMLXXXII]

I support you guys here and am willing to provide any assistance that I can. I have been an active participant in the first 2 tournaments and would like to see that this tournament continues. Lets see how many participants we can get and we can arrange the format accordingly. If anyone misses a game this time then they should be removed immediately.

[Straight Bat]

MCM me and hari were talking about the NRRs which were missing this year and I remember you giving Sean a few pointers in the 1st season.

We're going to do a little research ourselves but if we don't get far could you help us out with the NRRs a little once (if) the tournament gets underway under our leadership?

[Saj]

Hari and Straight bat, let me know if you need any PMs sending to players or threads being made into stickies/threads unsticking etc etc

[Straight Bat]

By the way guys, remember that theres still a long way untill we get this underway.

I think we'll make a thread in the offseason asking people to join up and then we have to wait for the cups to finish in the new season untill this can go ahead.

So plenty of time for people to discuss things they want to see in this tournament which they felt were ignored in the 1st and 2nd season tournaments

[The Godfather]

great idea guys i think if you have problems in the run rates you should talk to hasbeen i think he helped out sean

[MCMLXXXII]

I am ready to do run rates if anyone has problems. I am not sure how busy I will be but I think with you guys as primary organizers and with help from others, I will be able to help out with that aspect.

[Saqlain_doosra]

You guys going to make a league format? Great at least good teams will come at the top this was. Rather then lottery ticket.

[Mercenary]

Can someone write up a complete, absolute idiots guide to Battrick. If we can make it simple enough then more people may join, personally i still dont know what it's all about

[Hari Sombar]

Can someone write up a complete, absolute idiots guide to Battrick. If we can make it simple enough then more people may join, personally i still dont know what it's all about


I can do so in a little while, if you want, and then you can sticky it here

[Hari Sombar]

You guys going to make a league format? Great at least good teams will come at the top this was. Rather then lottery ticket.

What do you mean by this SD ?

[Straight Bat]

You guys going to make a league format? Great at least good teams will come at the top this was. Rather then lottery ticket.


do yyou mean like a continuos league games and no knockout phases?

[Saj]

Can someone write up a complete, absolute idiots guide to Battrick. If we can make it simple enough then more people may join, personally i still dont know what it's all about
I was going to ask the same thing. It sounds like great fun to take part in.

Also if Hari and SB you guys want more participants then we can make a stickie thread in the main forum to promote this :)

[Hari Sombar]

Thx Saj, we'll be making the join up threads etc. in the off season pretty soon

[The Godfather]

i think it will be better this way with a league table

[Hari Sombar]

A league table like the ones in the battrick divisions ?

Played 4

won 2

Lost 2

NRR 3.41


^^ Like those things ?

[Straight Bat]

so haroon are you favouring just a straight up league table aswell as SD?

What do other potential contestants prefer a long term league with each team playing the same amount of matches as opposed to the league thinning out into a tournament link it did this year?

[Hari Sombar]

Oh I understand, so everyone plays each other, no knockouts, SF's or Finals ?

The person in the lead of the table with all games played the winner ?

[Straight Bat]

Yep I think thats what SD and Haroon are hinting at, we'll need them to confirm.

[Hari Sombar]

I think thats a better idea, it would make it more fairer, no uneven groups, and it would be more forgiving to the weaker teams.

I like the idea.

What we could do is do it that way this season and then next season ask everyone which format they liked better.

[Straight Bat]

Also I guess if the season after this league, if we get all the regulars wanting to do another league season and a bunch of newbies say 10-12 newbies, we can make a 2nd league also, so it'll be PP division I and division II

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself but baisically with a league theres more room for expansion and can accomidate a lot more players.

anyway hari check the bt mail i sent you about the number of people we need this year!

[Hari Sombar]

If we do the league format, if we take in say 16 teams, we need 16 weeks of friendlies ! And if everyone is out the cup by first round we will only have 13 weeks of friendlies. Thats the thing that could not work with this format.

[Hari Sombar]

Also I guess if the season after this league, if we get all the regulars wanting to do another league season and a bunch of newbies say 10-12 newbies, we can make a 2nd league also, so it'll be PP division I and division II

I'm getting a bit ahead of myself but baisically with a league theres more room for expansion and can accomidate a lot more players.

anyway hari check the bt mail i sent you about the number of people we need this year!


Our problem here is that we could run out of weeks.

Replied SB

[Straight Bat]

Me and Hari have decided that we're going to need 20 participants to join next year.

We will make the joining thread in the last week of the season (when the BT20 matches are finishing)

But before you put your name down we decided it'd be best to tell you the format we've chosen (just so you know what you're signing up for and if you are not happy with the format half way through then don't put your name down from the start and spoil it for others by not accepting challenges etc)

We worked out that on average most teams would be out by the 3rd round of the cup (and if not you'll have to throw your matches or something)

So after 3 weeks of cup, that leaves us with atleast 13 (maybe 14 or 15) friendlies in a season to arrange

so from the 20 participants 2 groups of 10 will be formed (picked by Saj randomley to avoid bias)

All teams in each group of 10 will play each other, that will take up to 9 weeks.

Then, the top 2 from each league will advance in to the semi finals (with winner of group I playing runner up in Group II and winner of group II playing runner up of group I)

Then that will lead to a final and an eventual winner being crowned.

Any feedback?

[Saqlain_doosra]

do yyou mean like a continuos league games and no knockout phases?


Yes. Say every one plays each other and then we just have final or if too many teams then 2 groups and top 2 qulaify from each group.

[Saqlain_doosra]

Yep I think thats what SD and Haroon are hinting at, we'll need them to confirm.


Yes I was thinking of that. But if more then one group then we can just have top team from both groups playing each other to win the title.

[Saqlain_doosra]

Me and Hari have decided that we're going to need 20 participants to join next year.

We will make the joining thread in the last week of the season (when the BT20 matches are finishing)

But before you put your name down we decided it'd be best to tell you the format we've chosen (just so you know what you're signing up for and if you are not happy with the format half way through then don't put your name down from the start and spoil it for others by not accepting challenges etc)

We worked out that on average most teams would be out by the 3rd round of the cup (and if not you'll have to throw your matches or something)

So after 3 weeks of cup, that leaves us with atleast 13 (maybe 14 or 15) friendlies in a season to arrange

so from the 20 participants 2 groups of 10 will be formed (picked by Saj randomley to avoid bias)

All teams in each group of 10 will play each other, that will take up to 9 weeks.

Then, the top 2 from each league will advance in to the semi finals (with winner of group I playing runner up in Group II and winner of group II playing runner up of group I)

Then that will lead to a final and an eventual winner being crowned.

Any feedback?


Great idaea. Only thing is organising teams into groups. Saj will need to be given list of teams with level of each team(i.e. Division each team plays in and country).

[Hari Sombar]

Great idaea. Only thing is organising teams into groups. Saj will need to be given list of teams with level of each team(i.e. Division each team plays in and country).

Don't worry we'll give saj enough feedback, so thats how its gonna be

[Straight Bat]

Great idaea. Only thing is organising teams into groups. Saj will need to be given list of teams with level of each team(i.e. Division each team plays in and country).

Yeah, me and hari will pm him all the details like that once we get the 20 participants.

We'll have to work out something for home games aswell, to make sure everyone gets a fair amount (be it 4 or 5 home games alteast through the league stage)

[Saqlain_doosra]

Don't worry we'll give saj enough feedback, so thats how its gonna be


Thats great. At least this way my team will play longer in the tournament. :P :D

[Straight Bat]

Great idaea. Only thing is organising teams into groups. Saj will need to be given list of teams with level of each team(i.e. Division each team plays in and country).

On 2nd thoughts, wouldn't it better if we only gave Saj the team names and nothing else? That way it will be purely random and as less factors as possible will be considered in the forming of groups

[The Godfather]

yes i am thinking the same way as SD dont really think knockout really worked but the previous post SB thats what i was thinking of have two groups and top two taking each other on

[Straight Bat]

yea hopefuly everyone else will like this plan aswell as haroon and SD!

[Hari Sombar]

And hari! lol

Whats gonna happen with the cup then ?

[Straight Bat]

yea, we need the 20 participants to be out of the cup idealy by teh 3rd round. Max 4th or 5th round I think

[MCMLXXXII]

On 2nd thoughts, wouldn't it better if we only gave Saj the team names and nothing else? That way it will be purely random and as less factors as possible will be considered in the forming of groups


No don't do that, make sure both groups are fairly even to have a fair tournament.

[Hari Sombar]

SB, look at your BT mail

[Sparhawk]

Can someone post a link to the site?

[Sparhawk]

ah i just found it :P

[iZeeshan]

To be honest, the idea proposed above will NOT work. You have to have a semi-final, and final, and all that crapolla to make it original. Plus there are too many people.

We will have to at least begin with 4 groups, and THEN everyone can play everone.

SD, I am sorry you are upset, but there was no such thing as lottery ticketing. You lost, and you missed a game. Plus everyone in the top 8 was "good".

[iZeeshan]

Btw, do you think the groups made were unfair? I spent quite a bit of time on them and made them as fair as possible, looking at everyone's squads.

[Straight Bat]

To be honest, the idea proposed above will NOT work. You have to have a semi-final, and final, and all that crapolla to make it original. Plus there are too many people.

We will have to at least begin with 4 groups, and THEN everyone can play everone.

SD, I am sorry you are upset, but there was no such thing as lottery ticketing. You lost, and you missed a game. Plus everyone in the top 8 was "good".

Why won't it work? It's not like we will run out of time.

2 groups of 10 teams

in each group the teams play each other once which means it runs on for 9 weeks.

Then quarters, semi finals, and then a final, another 3 weeks.

Total = 12 weeks.

And if people don't accept challenges then they are disqualified immideiatley, say if someone gets thrown out after 3 games, atleast the other 6 opponents who the person was supposed to face can have the normal time to get another friendly and also gain 2 points for themselves in the league itself.

[Sean]

Due to the league this season, with Izee's difficulties I have realized that there is too much pressure to run the leagues as a one man job.

Straight Bat and I have decided to step up and run next seasons league. We feel that with two of us there will be less pressure, more co-ordination and smoothness.
I seemed to do alright. :P

[Straight Bat]

I seemed to do alright. :P

Long time no see Sean, glad to have you back for a few mins!

got any constructive critiscm for hari and mines format for next season? Do you think it will run smoothly or not?

[Sean]

Long time no see Sean, glad to have you back for a few mins!

got any constructive critiscm for hari and mines format for next season? Do you think it will run smoothly or not?
I honestly haven't read it through. Maybe the problem you had last time is that you had too many new players come and they got bored with the game and decided to stop?

[Straight Bat]

I honestly haven't read it through. Maybe the problem you had last time is that you had too many new players come and they got bored with the game and decided to stop?

It wasn't that bad I think, jus a few missed challenges which threw the tournament off.

Hopefully we can get the message across that there are no excuses this time.

[Sean]

Ahh well. Best of luck. I'm off for another few months again. :P
Stuck in a league that I'm the bottom of the ladder on. :)

[Straight Bat]

Thanks mate.

You gota start somwhere, good luck with your team and keep us posted on your progress any time you pass by here!

[Hari Sombar]

It should run smoothly, just need everyone out of the cup on the 4th game

[MCMLXXXII]

so clarification needed, do we throw the 4th game or the 5th game? Last year I made it to round 3. This year I think I can make round 4, so you are saying I lose that game?

What happens if I throw the game but still win it for some reason? Or if I end up playing another PP member in the tournament who is also throwing away match? Would I be disqualified or would I just lose points for that game?

[Hari Sombar]

You throw the 4th game MCM, and if something happens like you throw but win or meet another PPer the league will be delayed a week, we have about 2 backup weeks which are the BT20 games.

you follow ?

[Straight Bat]

Just been speaking to hasbeen

although hes not entering this yours tournament, he has agreed to play the winner of this years tournament in a friendly in the last or second last week of the season as an exhibition match.

I really want to win this now just to get one over him :))

[Hari Sombar]

wanna play hb too :D

[MCMLXXXII]

I for one, don't want to play him, at least till I get better players.

[iZeeshan]

Continuing the discussion from there.

To begin with, I wouldn't have Asif or Iqbal play. But since you guys insist, and to give everyone a chance of winning, we would have to limit their players to something.

I think one rule should definetely be that there should be only ONE person over 20k.

Also, I checked Iqbal's team, and he has 10 players over 10k. He plays one of the 20s. That's 10 more to play, and 8 players over 10k to go. In Iqbal's or Asif's case, only 5 of those 8 can play.

That is my suggestin.

[Straight Bat]

The thing is though, it wouldn't be fair to put so many restrictions on a team.

If there was a way to make this game more managerial based then I'd be all for it. I mean if we could limit the big guns only having an average rating of a certain amount against the newbies then it would bring in a well needed sense of rotation of the team and more tactical thinking which I like. But on the other hand, I wouldn't like to be placed under so many restrictionns - I might have to beat a newbie by 10 wickets to boost my NRR but I wouldn't be able to due to only playing low quality players. Thats why it gets a bit dodgey

I think having just one player over 20k is a reasonable suggestion, what do other PPers who want to enter the league think?

[Hari Sombar]

edit

[Hari Sombar]

I think it could be a good idea, but I agree, putting so many restraints on a manager might not be fair, what does Iqbal think ?

[iZeeshan]

Well even if we implement the 20k rule (only), Iqbal's team is still too strong.

[Hari Sombar]

Well even if we implement the 20k rule (only), Iqbal's team is still too strong.


Izee's don't worry, we will be able to compete against him, its just we have to help the newbies out as much as possible.

[iZeeshan]

Nah bro it is to worry. Everyone should have a fair chance of winning the tournament. If Iqbal and Asif play, the final will be between them two, and Asif will win.

[Straight Bat]

its not like we can all drop down to newbie level and play the same team as Sparhawk (not singling you out, its just your one of the new teams entering). Thats baisically what your asking for isnt it, you want all teams to be equal? Then I'd like to see you start fielding your team with newbie skill levels.

If you want to win it now, you could dip into the market. Or you could try and get some tactics together to win your matches.

We're still waiting to get some feedback on the only 1 20k player per team and if thats implemented then thats enough help I think.

[Hari Sombar]

Yeah, if a teams better than you, its not fair to restrict them

[iZeeshan]

SB, I am not asking to drop to newbie level.

But there is a majority skill level. Me, you, Hari, MCM, Umarbeast, SD, and a couple of others hover around mostly the SAME skill level. Where as Asif is in his own league, and Iqbal his own.

Catch my drift?

[MCMLXXXII]

ok, I was only able to see Iqbalsh team and that is a pretty decent team. However, I still think, someone like hasbeen can take him on. Also, with the new season starting and people who are sitting on lots of money (SB has like 4.5 million on one player?) a lot of the top tier people can make lots of improvement next season and get many good players. We should be trying to improve all the time, and you can only get better by playing a better opponent, if we play people who just signed up all the time, we would be thrashing them all the time and they would stand no chance at all, but playing games gives them opportunities to improve. We should look at it the following way too. What is the point of restricting teams so that you have a better chance, that is just rigging the tournament in your favor. Restricting team selections is nto a good idea, players should be allowed to field their best team, and it gets tough to keep players fit for all 3, OD FC and PP leagues. Let the players do what they want if they play, don't restrict what players someone can play or not.

The first season was very good because we only had people who were in Div 4 in Pak or similar Div in other countries playing, most players were of same level and things were fairly even. Last tournament we had a lot of people who were very good and many who were brand new. I don't know how we can do on restriction based on which Div a team plays on because of the various countries.

I am not sure if we restrict to only one player above 20K. I have worked very hard to improve a few of my players, and I have 2 which are very close to 20K and in one or 2 weeks, both will be above 20K. If I sit either one of them out, my team is useless as my support bowlers or batsmen are not as good as others. If you look at my team, I have 3 players I focus on and the rest are just there to fill in the numbers. If we limit to only one player above 20K then that would really hurt me. Should we make it to 2? I don't think so, how many exceptions can we make, it gets really ridiculous pretty soon. Best way is to keep the rules simple and allow people to be free to play however they want.

I say, don't restrict the players someone can play, either restrict the users who are too good, or allow everyone to play. If you restrict users, it should be based on something meaningful, not arbitrary. Choose which Divs are acceptable, or perhaps the avergae BT rating of your whole team. Mine is 7124. We could put an upper limit of 10K or so, but who is going to calculate all the averages.

My personal opinion, let them play, Iqbal and asifp. However I don't know asifp's team name and don't know what kind of players he has.

[Straight Bat]

Great post.

We invited Asifp a few days ago but haven't had a reply and I doubt he's going to play now. I would have said Asifp had the better of the two teams between him and Iqbal but thats irrelvant.

Even if Iqbal has 19 great players in his squad, he can only play 11 and likw MCM said, we should be motivated to push ourselves further to try to find a weakness in better teams and even if we don't win - atleast our teams will have improved regardless.

[Straight Bat]

btw iqbals average rating is 11409 if anyone wants to crossrefrence with their own team

[iZeeshan]

MCM, you are missing the point. What is the point of me taking part in the BT Tournament if I know there is no chance of me winning it. I might as well just grab people in my division and play them, instead of the tournament. I can grab others in higher divisions and play them too. I understand your point about playing people of higher class, but what is the point of the tournament if I know who the finalists will be, and who is gonna win. In the real World Cup, you have bad teams, and good teams, but you never know beforehand who will win the cup, do you? I don't like the restriction idea either, so everyone who participates should be our division, III or lower for Pakistani teams, and whatever is equivalent in other countries.

[MCMLXXXII]

you always know that Australia would win, unless someone causes an upset, same thing here. But yeah if you guys don't want to, then don't let them play, I have said what I wanted to say. So if we set the Maximum average BT rating of the whole squad at 10K would that be good?

[iZeeshan]

No, its like you and Hari said, restrictions are really stupid and annoying. Iqbal said he was going to play reserves, so I think it works for us.

Lets wait for Asifp.

[Straight Bat]

Iqbal what you classify as reserves? I don't want it so that your only fielding players with 4-5k rating.

Izee, what range of playesr would you give Iqbal to play with? I'd say anywhere up to 12-13k with 1 option of playing any superstar.

And Iqbal when you play me, you can field any side you want.

[iZeeshan]

Well either that SB, or 7 of his 10 10k+ players can play, but only one of the 20ks. At least against me I guess. 5 against lower ones maybe?

[Straight Bat]

Sounds fair enough, I guess each individual team can let Iqbal know if they want him to work in restrictions.

But still a general consensus is needed and I'll wait for haris MCM and others opinion on that.

Iqbal what do you think so far? Would you be ok with the restrictions me or izee suggested?

[MCMLXXXII]

I am good with whatever you guys suggest. Personally I say let Iqbal play whoever he wants to as he says he will be playing reserves anyway.

[Iqbal'sh]

Iqbal what do you think so far? Would you be ok with the restrictions me or izee suggested?

I am all for restrictions affecting every team that participates in the competition. Obviously, depending on what these were, they should affect my team the most and the mediocre and weakest teams would not be affected at all. This may bring the levels of competing teams closer together.

I don't think the idea of each individual (my opponents) telling me what the restrictions should be is a good idea. Too much chance of confusion and bad feeling (even though it is likely to be unintentional).

As I stated earlier, my intention is to play mostly reserves in this competition. To elaborate on this:

a) I want every squad player to make one outing every week -- this could be OD, FC or friendly (this tournament).
b) My goals are to be competitive in my OD and FC leagues. I will not jeapordise my chances in those leagues by overplaying my top players in the friendlies (leaving them with poor fitness levels).
c) I'm making an assumption here but here goes!! I think I'm competing against better level teams therefore if I'm playing my best players in the FC and OD games more often, then there's less chance of them taking part in the friendly games.
d) I honestly don't know how many 20k + players are in my squad, how many are between 10k and 20k, and how many fall below 10k since I don't pay too much attention to the BT rating.

Lastly, I think competing is more important than winning and the only reason I wanted to join this comp was so that I would not have to worry about sorting friendlies every week.
I have joined friendly tournaments in the past with mixed results. I remember I joined the JFW Cup (Jumpers For Wickets) and lost all 6 round robin games against vastly superior teams. The comp had no restrictions at all.
I recall other cups which have been restricted to teams from Div V in England only (even so the team levels fluctuated greatly), some cups have had restrictions such as no player over 25k BT rating (unless it is a W/keeper or is a batter who is played as a W/keeper) and others have had restrictions such as total BT rating for the selected team should be no more than say 80k (and a further restriction on the max BT for any individual player). In short all of these comps have worked well.

It is the comp organisers responsibility to sort out the playing guides and for all teams to uphold the rules set out.
I understand you have a huge difference in skill levels of competing teams and this is where restrictions could be handy if a little tricky to sort out initially, however if all entrants emphasise the will to compete more than the desire to win then your event will be a success. Please let me know whatever you decide.

[iZeeshan]

Well then its settled, my vote is for: NO Restrictions on any team.

[harris]

how do you play this

[Saj]

how do you play this

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?t=51245

[Hari Sombar]

My take on Things : LET ANYONE PLAY WHOEVER THEY WANT, NO RESTRICTIONS

[Straight Bat]

So then it's settled, no restrictions for anyone.

[khan-92]

i posted on another thread wanted to know am i in the league or not?
team is khan Tigers

[Straight Bat]

yea, your in. I put your name down in the original post in the other thread

[khan-92]

yea, your in. I put your name down in the original post in the other thread

ok thanks

[The Godfather]

fine then im in

[Straight Bat]

haroon whats ur team name?

ill add u to the list thats sticky in teh cricket section

[The Godfather]

yeah ok its haroon united