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Saj
3rd March 2008, 20:42
I recall a relative of mine saying that it was haram to have your palm read, is that true ?

By the way I have no intention of having my palm read but was just interested to find out?

lodge_boy
3rd March 2008, 20:49
well when i asked my mom can i have my palm read? she said NO and said its Haram in islam and told me if i have it read i'll get kicked out of my house!

akram_rejuvinated
3rd March 2008, 21:20
curious... what does haram mean? i think i could count atleast three threads a week on what is haram according to islam. does it mean you should not do it, or you should avoid it or is it of no spiritual significance.

and judging by the volume of stuff that is evidentally haram, maybe a better question would be to ask, what is not haram? for instance, is the study of physical sciences without a reference to a creator etc haram? is a secular society haram? is democracy haram?

TAK
3rd March 2008, 21:21
no saj, it's just plain stupid

Pak_cricketer
3rd March 2008, 21:27
curious... what does haram mean? i think i could count atleast three threads a week on what is haram according to islam. does it mean you should not do it, or you should avoid it or is it of no spiritual significance.

and judging by the volume of stuff that is evidentally haram, maybe a better question would be to ask, what is not haram? for instance, is the study of physical sciences without a reference to a creator etc haram? is a secular society haram? is democracy haram?

Haram is basically stuff not approved by Islam. Democracy is not Haram since its considered an essential of life.

akram_rejuvinated
3rd March 2008, 21:30
Haram is basically stuff not approved by Islam. Democracy is not Haram since its considered an essential of life.
so there a comprehensive database of what is approved or disapproved? has this database been periodically updated? and if it is indeed updated, who is the authority on its contents?

akram_rejuvinated
3rd March 2008, 21:31
no saj, it's just plain stupid
besides that... calling palm reading stupid is like calling a donkey 'dumb'; redundant.

12thMan
3rd March 2008, 21:42
It is haram if bad predictions are made and you take them seriuosly. I will ask Miss Cleo next time I call

Pak_cricketer
3rd March 2008, 21:50
so there a comprehensive database of what is approved or disapproved? has this database been periodically updated? and if it is indeed updated, who is the authority on its contents?
The Quran is the whole book that goes into detail about each thing. It makes it clear what is right and what is wrong. It hasn't been edited ever since it put forth on this earth and it never will.

About the 'edited by Pak_cricketer', I accidently pressed 'edit' instead of 'quote'. Nothing has been changed of your post.

akram_rejuvinated
3rd March 2008, 23:10
The Quran is the whole book that goes into detail about each thing. It makes it clear what is right and what is wrong. It hasn't been edited ever since it put forth on this earth and it never will.

About the 'edited by Pak_cricketer', I accidently pressed 'edit' instead of 'quote'. Nothing has been changed of your post.
well then i would expect considerable ambivalence about the permissibility of certain contentious practices since there is database and the voracity of any claim is based entirely upon the interpretation one derives from their personal examination of the text. for instance, surfing the net and posting on blogs and forums. what is the judgement on that?

and yet, i am curious though... when does an activity become haram? i.e. when does it cross the precipice beyond which is only cencure?

(dont worry about the edit thing, its quite alright)

Muddaser
3rd March 2008, 23:40
well then i would expect considerable ambivalence about the permissibility of certain contentious practices since there is database and the voracity of any claim is based entirely upon the interpretation one derives from their personal examination of the text. for instance, surfing the net and posting on blogs and forums. what is the judgement on that?

and yet, i am curious though... when does an activity become haram? i.e. when does it cross the precipice beyond which is only cencure?

(dont worry about the edit thing, its quite alright)

Hand reading, Star signs wtc are considered cause we believe our destiny is all in Gods hands.

Only God knows what our future holds. Not someone reading a persons hand.

speed_thrills
3rd March 2008, 23:43
Hand reading, Star signs wtc are considered cause we believe our destiny is all in Gods hands.

Only God knows what our future holds. Not someone reading a persons hand.

Is it so,

I have quite a few muslim friends, who are very much interested in Zodiac Signs and etc.

Indiafan
4th March 2008, 00:03
hmmm, i thought palm reading and Zodiac was more of a hindu practice (thoug i know the west follows it too!)

Plasma
4th March 2008, 00:03
Is it so,

I have quite a few muslim friends, who are very much interested in Zodiac Signs and etc.
Being interested is not as same as facts. Our fate has already been written and it has ben decided by god and only he knows our future.

Pak_cricketer
4th March 2008, 00:10
well then i would expect considerable ambivalence about the permissibility of certain contentious practices since there is database and the voracity of any claim is based entirely upon the interpretation one derives from their personal examination of the text. for instance, surfing the net and posting on blogs and forums. what is the judgement on that?

and yet, i am curious though... when does an activity become haram? i.e. when does it cross the precipice beyond which is only cencure?

(dont worry about the edit thing, its quite alright)

In the Quran it is mentioned that all knowledge given to man will eventually come out. Knowledge has no limits and one can go on for ever.

An activity becomes haram when it is directly forbidden in the Quran.

speed_thrills
4th March 2008, 00:10
Being interested is not as same as facts. Our fate has already been written and it has ben decided by god and only he knows our future.

Point taken,

but still they must be curious enough to know abt their future, thats y the interest.

Mercenary
4th March 2008, 00:27
From what I remember it's considered haram for two main reasons the first is because it leads to shirk. For example in Islam we believe that only Allah(swt) has knowledge of the future or the unseen. Even the Prophets and Messengers get their knowledge of the unseen from Allah (swt). Now by believing in a palm reader or soothsayer you are putting their knowledge of the unseen up in competition with God's knowledge of the unseen and therefore it becomes Shirk.

The other main reason for it being considered Haram is on the same basis that alcohol and gambling are considered Haram. Just like those two vices, fortune telling in moderation is largely harmless and just a bit of fun for most of us, we dont really take it seriously or even really believe what we're told.

However there are those who allow their lives to be completely taken over by fortune tellers or astrologers and who do everything they're told by these people. I'm sure we all know or have heard of the sort of people who wont leave the house without consulting with their 'guru' and their entire lives are run by these astrologers/fortune tellers.

It's in order to avoid placing so much power in the hands of these Guru or Sai type people as well as the Shirk angle that Islam has made fortune telling haram.


For those who dont know some of the terms used:

Haram - This is an action which is prohibited within Islamic law. Eg, eating pork, drinking alcohol, suicide, etc

Shirk - In Islam this is the one unforgiveable sin and it means 'to associate partners with God.' It's main meaning is worshipping someone other than God or worshipping other deities alongside God, ie Polytheism. However it can also refer to something less that that, for example within Islam we have certain attributes that can only belong to God like the most merciful, all-seeing, all-knowing, all-hearing, all-powerful and to give any of those attributes to any being other than God can also be shirk. In this particular example (In Islam) God is the only one who knows the future and by going to a fortune teller you are awarding that person an attribute that can only belong to God therefore you are committing Shirk.

akram_rejuvinated
4th March 2008, 00:42
In the Quran it is mentioned that all knowledge given to man will eventually come out. Knowledge has no limits and one can go on for ever.

An activity becomes haram when it is directly forbidden in the Quran.
regrettably you have not really answered my question. let me represent it: what determines of a certain activity is haram? palm readings are done for the sole purpose of entertainment, as are astrological readings. however, a similar practice... of celebrating religious holidays such as new years, Id, Diwali, Christmas etc on the basis of how the earth revolves around the earth, a phenomenon of absolutely negligible astronomical significance are rather celebrated.

in summary, while i understand the bit about destiny being determined by god as opposed to random lines on one's hand, but there are quite a few activities that i have noticed to be haram. its what is yet to be judged haram or not that i am curious towards.

Wiji
4th March 2008, 00:42
I recall a relative of mine saying that it was haram to have your palm read, is that true ?

By the way I have no intention of having my palm read but was just interested to find out?

When I read the thread title, I was so sure it was a sarcastic thread in response to all the other 'is this haraam' threads we've been having lately. But with the interest this thread has shown, I guess it's quite common in our society.

Mercenary
4th March 2008, 00:57
its what is yet to be judged haram or not that i am curious towards.

The Quran (Word of God) and the Sunnah (words and actions of the Prophet) are the two primary sources of Islamic law. Haram means a forbidden act according to either or both these sources of law.

The reason a lot of questions are asked about whether or not something is Haram in the modern era is because there are so many things around today that werent around 1400 years ago.

They way Islamic scholars work out whether any of these new things is Halal (Permissible) or Haram (Impermissible) is through something called Ijtihad. Ijtihad is the process of coming to a decision about something by applying principles derived from the Quran and Sunnah regarding that area of law or social life. This now becomes a legal ruling and can only be made by properly qualified Islamic Scholars.

EG a very simple example would be something like modern drugs such as Ecstasy or Speed. These werent around in the time of the Prophet so there is no rule for them as such. In light of that modern scholars would look at what area these drugs fall under and given their ability to both intoxicate and lead to serious addiction. Drugs would of course be covered by the principles that apply to alcohol and therefore they are Haram (Impermissible) just as alcohol is Haram.

Do you get it now?

Raul Madrid
4th March 2008, 00:59
One look at every Asian channel be it Indian Pak or Bangali will tell you how widespread these things are.

'Professor Mohammad' is the one that cracks me up :)

akram_rejuvinated
4th March 2008, 02:31
The Quran (Word of God) and the Sunnah (words and actions of the Prophet) are the two primary sources of Islamic law. Haram means a forbidden act according to either or both these sources of law.

The reason a lot of questions are asked about whether or not something is Haram in the modern era is because there are so many things around today that werent around 1400 years ago.

They way Islamic scholars work out whether any of these new things is Halal (Permissible) or Haram (Impermissible) is through something called Ijtihad. Ijtihad is the process of coming to a decision about something by applying principles derived from the Quran and Sunnah regarding that area of law or social life. This now becomes a legal ruling and can only be made by properly qualified Islamic Scholars.

EG a very simple example would be something like modern drugs such as Ecstasy or Speed. These werent around in the time of the Prophet so there is no rule for them as such. In light of that modern scholars would look at what area these drugs fall under and given their ability to both intoxicate and lead to serious addiction. Drugs would of course be covered by the principles that apply to alcohol and therefore they are Haram (Impermissible) just as alcohol is Haram.

Do you get it now?this i understood pretty much from the first response that there is a body passing these judgements based on their interpretations of the laws.

moreover, the example you presented is quite trivial. what about something more challenging: such as working for a financial firm such as morgan stanley for instance. or working for general foods, a department store that distributes whole foods that include meat products not compatible with islamic laws and traditions?

Muddaser
4th March 2008, 03:28
this i understood pretty much from the first response that there is a body passing these judgements based on their interpretations of the laws.

moreover, the example you presented is quite trivial. what about something more challenging: such as working for a financial firm such as morgan stanley for instance. or working for general foods, a department store that distributes whole foods that include meat products not compatible with islamic laws and traditions?

Eating Pork is forbidden.

Drinking Alcohol is forbidden.

And so on.

The rules are simple. No need to complicate them.

world_peace
4th March 2008, 08:09
you just got to go to pakistan yousrlef and see that on every corner there are people offering to read your palm. talk about these so called "islamic" country. absalute hypocracy.

SameerM
4th March 2008, 08:41
astronomy is a fundamental part of islam.. but beleiving what someone/horrorscopes telll u is wrong.

akram_rejuvinated
4th March 2008, 13:25
astronomy is a fundamental part of islam.. but beleiving what someone/horrorscopes telll u is wrong.
astronomy is central to every dogmatic religious belief of the pre modern times. astrology is not astronomy and is utter hogwash.


hey merc, quick question: is there free determination in islam? you mentioned that god knows one's fate before hand. does that mean that this individual is a puppet in time merely going through the life predetermined for this person? if so, then why and rather how can this individual be held accountable for their deeds? or is there free will and self determination. in that case, how can god know anyone's fate prior to the person making the choices in his life. simple law of casuality...

akram_rejuvinated
4th March 2008, 13:26
Eating Pork is forbidden.

Drinking Alcohol is forbidden.

And so on.

The rules are simple. No need to complicate them.
dude its easy on the issue of pork and alcohol. but everything in life is not as black and white. can you decisively label the activities i listed in my previous post's last paragragh?

MCMLXXXII
4th March 2008, 14:16
I am getting tired of all these threads about what is halal and what is haram. These are very strong words and us people use it very casually. Please take a little time to read this:


Warning against playing with the word “haram”

To conclude, we address the respectful scholars who tackle the word “haram” easily and set it free in their writings and fatwas that they should observe that Allah is watching over them in all that they say or do. They should also know that this word “haram” is very dangerous. It means that Allah’s Punishment is due on a certain act or saying, and should not be based upon guessing, whims, weak Hadiths, not even through an old book. It has to be supported by a clear, well-established text or valid consensus. If these last two are not found, then we revert the given act or saying to the original rule: "permissibility governing things". We do have a good example to follow from one of our earlier pious scholars. Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: “It was not the habit of those who preceded us, the early pious Muslims, who set good example for the following generations, to say, 'This is halal, and this is haram. But, they would say, ‘I hate such-and-such, and maintain such-and-such, but as for halal and haram, this is what may be called inventing lies concerning Allah. Did not you hear Allah’s Statement that reads, 'Say: Have you considered what provision Allah has sent down for you, how you have made of it lawful and unlawful? Say: Has Allah permitted you, or do you invent a lie concerning Allah?” (Yunus: 59) For, the halal is what Allah and His Messenger made lawful, and the haram is what Allah and His Messenger made unlawful.

On this issue in particular, I agree with what Merc has said earlier. An act itself may not be haram, but depending on what it is used for makes it permissible or not. take for example, adultery or fornication which is haram but when the same act occurs between married couples, Not only is it permissible but recommended. The simple act of getting the Palm read is not haram, one can certainly question its usefulness though. however believing in such things and believing in soothsayers is a form of shirk. And Shirk is an unforgivable sin.

MCMLXXXII
4th March 2008, 14:28
astronomy is central to every dogmatic religious belief of the pre modern times. astrology is not astronomy and is utter hogwash.


hey merc, quick question: is there free determination in islam? you mentioned that god knows one's fate before hand. does that mean that this individual is a puppet in time merely going through the life predetermined for this person? if so, then why and rather how can this individual be held accountable for their deeds? or is there free will and self determination. in that case, how can god know anyone's fate prior to the person making the choices in his life. simple law of casuality...


I will take a shot at this.

In Islam, we have free will. In fact that is one of the most important things given to man that makes us different from other creations. Allah created us with free will so that we will be free to choose whether we worship Allah or not. There was no point for creating Humans without free will as we would then have been like the angels, who worship Allah in complete obedience.

Now the question of Allah knowing one's fate beforehand, it is one of the qualities of Allah that he is omniscient, the All-knowing. He knows all that is occurring, he knows all that has occurred in the past and he knows what will occur in the future. This certainly does not mean that we lose all free will if Allah knows what we are going to do. It is like if you were a time traveler from the future, and you observed something that you had observed before, you know exactly what is going to happen, that does not mean everyone around you loses their free will.

Not only does Allah swt knows what will happen, he knows what will not happen, and if things had happened, how it would have turned out, he knows that too. He knows all permutations. It is hard to understand the concept of being omniscient. Also, you have to realize that the laws of Causality does not apply to Allah as he is timeless. Allah created the universe, the laws of the universe do not apply to him.

Big Daddy
4th March 2008, 23:36
2 Reasons,
It is said a nation back in the day was destroyed because they were avid palm readers and also heavy on astrological signs. And their knowledge was so sharp on this subject that they could predict things which man today with all his technology cant. Islamic literature doesnt name the race, but it could be the mayyans

2nd to gain the ability to read the palm or get the knowledge of a future or past event. the services of the jin have to be acquired. and this process involves doing shirk and kufr.
so there.

lodge_boy
5th March 2008, 14:22
you just got to go to pakistan yousrlef and see that on every corner there are people offering to read your palm. talk about these so called "islamic" country. absalute hypocracy.

how do you know? :13:

SameerM
5th March 2008, 15:11
If u beleive or act upon readings, horrorscopes etc, its shirk basically...

ur kind of saying that the palm reader is at par with Allah, therefore associating partners with him.

Vegitto1
5th March 2008, 17:00
Question for you Merc (since u posses more knowledge on this topic) If you hear on the news that heavy snow is going to fall where you live at a certain time. would you ignore the forecast or stay indoors?

pakistani_banda
5th March 2008, 19:35
its as i have heard. also i saw this greatest oxymoron. a hafiz of Quran who is a palmist. he comeson geo tv. i saw him at the book fair in fortress stadium a few days ago. i was with my dad and we were like wat the heck. his partner offered my dad to read his palm, but my dad simply refused :D .

MCMLXXXII
5th March 2008, 21:20
Question for you Merc (since u posses more knowledge on this topic) If you hear on the news that heavy snow is going to fall where you live at a certain time. would you ignore the forecast or stay indoors?
Bad anaolgy. weather forecasting is a science. The phenomenon can be re-created in a laboratory and tested many times to yield similar results. The same cannot be said about reading palms, you will not be able to find any scientific correlation with it.

Vegitto1
5th March 2008, 22:24
Bad anaolgy. weather forecasting is a science. The phenomenon can be re-created in a laboratory and tested many times to yield similar results. The same cannot be said about reading palms, you will not be able to find any scientific correlation with it.

Religion isn't a scientific concept either, does that mean it is meaningless?

Talisa
5th March 2008, 22:46
Hand reading, Star signs wtc are considered cause we believe our destiny is all in Gods hands.

Only God knows what our future holds. Not someone reading a persons hand.
I would say that was true of many religions.
I hate the fact that people are exploited by these palm readers.
Especially when they consult these people they are in a highly emotional state.

12thMan
5th March 2008, 22:50
I would say that was true of many religions.
I hate the fact that people are exploited by these palm readers.
Especially when they consult these people they are in a highly emotional state.
But it can be fun if a parrot was to pick your future :batman: no science is needed there but the highly developed perception and prediction of birds

Talisa
5th March 2008, 22:57
But it can be fun if a parrot was to pick your future :batman: no science is needed there but the highly developed perception and prediction of birds
:D
Parrots can be bad. :P

salman24
6th March 2008, 02:17
It's haram from what I know
I have heard scholars like Dr.Zakir Naik and Bilal Phillips speaking about this very strongly

the SHA
6th March 2008, 10:21
Ask the scholar...

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543358

world_peace
6th March 2008, 10:29
how do you know? :13:
because i just came back from pakistan :21: ...around 6 weeks ago

MMA
6th March 2008, 16:10
Bad anaolgy. weather forecasting is a science. The phenomenon can be re-created in a laboratory and tested many times to yield similar results. The same cannot be said about reading palms, you will not be able to find any scientific correlation with it.

Aghi doesn't Allah subhanawatala say that only he knows when it will rain.

Howmany times it happened that the weatherman says something and the next day its the something else.