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entralinks
31st May 2005, 07:06
Shikwa (http://www.clicksialkot.com/shikwa01.htm) | Jawab-e-Shikwa (http://www.clicksialkot.com/jshikwa01.htm)

nadeem
31st May 2005, 07:11
Entralinks this is a great post. BY posting kalaam-e-iqbal u're doing a great service. THe man was responsible for giving the wake up call to millions of muslims in the undivided india. Great work brother.

robosapien
31st May 2005, 07:28
mundia sialkotia!

Schiller
31st May 2005, 07:37
for some reason, not difficult to divine, i always liked shikwa more

robosapien
31st May 2005, 07:55
wt a man he was!
wearing dhoti bunyan at home, puffing huqqa and writing persian urdu poetry.
20th century of urdu poetry belongs to him. no one even close to him. like bradman in cricket.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 07:58
he didnt write in punjabi though ;-)
if he did, id love to read it.

and wasnt he quite into women before he started getting moralistic on everyone?

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:04
iqbal's poetry has been translated into punjabi long time ago.
iqbal said "pas che baid kard! aqwam-e-mashriq"

and it's translated as " aye mushriq diyo qoumo, hun ki kariye"

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:07
iqbal made"daagh" as his teacher in the beginning. so he was much inspired by the classical urdu poetry. but i guess his phd work has changed him a lot. his topic of phd was islamic renaissance so apparently he was more into serious issues!

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:09
and didnt write in punjabi then? tch tch

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:09
always considered him a bit of a fraud

nadeem
31st May 2005, 08:09
"iqbal's poetry has been translated into punjabi long time ago.
iqbal said "pas che baid kard! aqwam-e-mashriq"

and it's translated as " aye mushriq diyo qoumo, hun ki kariye""

:)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:11
y do u write in english instead of urdu?

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:12
cause i cant in urdu, my urdu isnt as good which is a shame and i admit it, and you should know that i always have

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:12
maybe he had the same problem, like most of the punjabis.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:14
that would be a concern then for a man of his stature perhaps

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:21
faiz had tried some punjabi waisay. i think currently the best person in punjabi would be munir niazi.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:22
i like muni niazi,

kuch unjh vi ranhvan aukhiaan sun...

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:27
waisay he is such a character. someone asked him abt some sociopolitical problems in pak. he advised that ppl shud read good poetry. interviewer asked if he can suggest some names. he replied," muslan mujhe parhein"

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:29
:))2 :))2

Cartman
31st May 2005, 08:29
COMMA JUST REMINDED ME.. i heard that iqbal was once accused of a hooker's murder.. but he never was found guilty.. is it true?

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:30
he's a g8 poet waisay. basically a dehaati aadmi. so one can see different symbols of rural life and certain mythical elements of folklore.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:31
hookers murder? i like the sound of that

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:33
i've also heard that story. never read anywhere though.
waisay, iqbal has been a victim of his lovers and haters all the time.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:34
i remember coming across one romantic ghazal of iqbal but cant recall it now, anyone has a clue?

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:36
tairay ishq ki intihi chahta hoon
meri saadigi dekh, kiya chahta hoon

something like that.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:36
si si, that ghazal, do you remember it yar?

robosapien
31st May 2005, 08:37
if u wanna read romantic, faiz is the best person in my opinion.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 08:39
have read him, but mir for me any given day

Team Slayer
31st May 2005, 09:03
Iqbal nay jo kia woh Allah hi janta hai...but his genius cannot be denied by anyone! and like Nadeem said, he played a huge part in Pakistan's formation. what his intentions were is unknown to man, his work isn't though. IMO, he's more of a Baba-e-Pakistan than Jinnah could ever be.

Schiller
31st May 2005, 09:04
now now, no need to put him above jinnah!!

Team Slayer
31st May 2005, 09:05
why not, janab?

Schiller
31st May 2005, 09:07
well for starters, iqbal pleaded with him to come to pak's cause, that should say something, the rest would be too long for now :D

Team Slayer
31st May 2005, 09:11
yar to be honest, i am a little suspicious of Jinnah...haven't done enough research or anything on him, but have a gut feeling about it because of what I have heard from people.

Iqbal, to me at least, seems one who was sharabi kababi, but then altered himself for the better and in the process produced some of Urdu's most brilliant gems.

Officer Barbrady
31st May 2005, 15:37
I'd suggest some research on the matter.

Hasan
31st May 2005, 15:48
The one man who never gets a mention in the creation of Pakistan, but who was critical as he funded the movement was Raja Sahab of Mahmoodabad. In his later life he moved to London where he spent his last days. Infact, he is also to be credited with the Islamic Centre in Regent Park. It was he who lobbied the UK governament to allocate the land and raised the funding for the construnction of the Centre itself.

robosapien
31st May 2005, 19:37
"yar to be honest, i am a little suspicious of Jinnah...haven't done enough research or anything on him, but have a gut feeling about it because of what I have heard from people."

y suspicious waisay?
i think jinnah didnt want a separate country until nehru rejected cabinet plan. jinnah was in favour of some confederation kinda system.
apart from that, i would say that if pak has some leaders of 1/10th of jinnah's calibre after 1947, we would have a stable political system today.

Team Slayer
31st May 2005, 19:39
Marooned, if I were to research, which source should I trust? The history that they used to teach to us in Pakistan about Jinnah and co. was painting them like saints...but if you read the Indian perspective, then they paint Jinnah in a totally different way! So who to believe?

BTW, my opinion of both Iqbal and Jinnah is formed from what my family has told me (some of them actually experienced the partition in 47 and the pre-partition movement).

Team Slayer
31st May 2005, 19:55
"yar to be honest, i am a little suspicious of Jinnah...haven't done enough research or anything on him, but have a gut feeling about it because of what I have heard from people."

y suspicious waisay?
i think jinnah didnt want a separate country until nehru rejected cabinet plan. jinnah was in favour of some confederation kinda system.
apart from that, i would say that if pak has some leaders of 1/10th of jinnah's calibre after 1947, we would have a stable political system today.

robo, I never said that he was a bad leader. he was a fine leader, and wanted betterment of the Muslims (much unlike the politicians of today!) for the most part. I just think Iqbal has played a bigger role than him in the creation of Pakistan.

about the political system, it could never be stable (even if we had great leaders) because of the corruption embedded within the various ranks of the political system. just visit interior Sindh sometime and you will see what I mean!

robosapien
31st May 2005, 20:40
"about the political system, it could never be stable (even if we had great leaders) because of the corruption embedded within the various ranks of the political system. just visit interior Sindh sometime and you will see what I mean!"

actually i did get a chence to visit quite a few places in pak except balochistan. i had travelled in interior sindh and spent a few days in sukker, larkana. political systems cannot be free of corruption in any place. i've been living in cananda for the last few yrs and even here, it's not corruption free. but atleast a stable system doesnt lead to military coups. i'll give the exampe of india and their political system isnt clean at all but military doesnt come out of barracks to "guide ppl to democracy".

Officer Barbrady
31st May 2005, 20:42
Marooned, if I were to research, which source should I trust? The history that they used to teach to us in Pakistan about Jinnah and co. was painting them like saints...but if you read the Indian perspective, then they paint Jinnah in a totally different way! So who to believe?

BTW, my opinion of both Iqbal and Jinnah is formed from what my family has told me (some of them actually experienced the partition in 47 and the pre-partition movement).

The thing is Iqbal passed on a decade before Pakistan and that has to be a factor.

Stanley Wolpert is a scholar on south Asia from the University of California at Berkeley (one of the top unis in the US). His biography on Jinnah 'Jinnah of Pakistan' is quite famous and imo impartial as well (interesting at the same time). I'd suggest reading that, I think it presents Jinnah the way he was.

Team Slayer
31st May 2005, 20:48
that's true robo. you are quite right in suggesting that with resolute leaders (and a stable system) we wouldn't have had so many military coups.

anyhow, this thread was about Shikwa and Jawab-e-Shikwa! :)

Team Slayer
31st May 2005, 20:50
thanks for the book's name Marooned. will try to acquire that :)

irfan
31st May 2005, 21:10
I think Iqbal was also fluent in German, didn't he do a doctorate in Munich,alot of Ihiss work was inspired by the German philosopher Nietzsche.

Awesome Anjum
31st May 2005, 21:23
Dhayar E Ishq Mein Apna Maquam Paida Kar.

Anyone heard this one ?

robosapien
31st May 2005, 21:40
"I think Iqbal was also fluent in German, didn't he do a doctorate in Munich,alot of Ihiss work was inspired by the German philosopher Nietzsche."

i think so too.
a good urdu book on iqbal's life is "zinda rood" written by javed iqbal(his son).

robosapien
31st May 2005, 21:42
"Dhayar E Ishq Mein Apna Maquam Paida Kar.

Anyone heard this one ?"

yes. it's really famous one.



khudi na baich, ghareebi mein naam paida kar

Hussain
31st May 2005, 22:49
they both wer one of the most controversial works of Iqbal


infact Jawab - e - shikwa was written by Iqbal inorder to end the controversy which shikwa had generated but it ended up creating a controversy of its own

entralinks
2nd June 2005, 06:34
Thats new to me Hussain. Are you sure?