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Uzzy
11th June 2008, 18:28
Pakistan's military has condemned what it says was an air strike by US-led forces that killed 11 Pakistani troops as a "cowardly attack".

Details of the incident on the border with Afghanistan are still unclear.

Reports suggest it took place as US-led forces operating in Afghanistan were tackling pro-Taleban militants.

The US military confirmed it had carried out the operation, which comes amid rising tensions between the US and Pakistan militaries.

The soldiers' deaths occurred overnight at a border post in the mountainous **** Prai region in Mohmand, one of Pakistan's tribal areas, across the border from Afghanistan's Kunar province.

Eight Taleban militants were also killed in the clashes, a Taleban spokesman said.

A spokesman for the US forces in Afghanistan confirmed to the BBC that the operation on the border was carried out by US forces, but said the military had no further comment to make.

'Act of aggression'

In a statement, the Pakistani military quoted a spokesman who condemned "this completely unprovoked and cowardly act", which it blamed on "coalition forces".

The spokesman said the incident "hit at the very basis of cooperation and sacrifice with which Pakistani soldiers are supporting the coalition in war against terror" and added that the army had launched a "strong protest".

The BBC's Barbara Plett in Islamabad says the statement was very strongly worded, describing the incident as an "act of aggression".

Our correspondent says the incident seems to have been an operation against Taleban militants that went wrong.

But details remain sketchy of how the initial clashes broke out.

Maulvi Umar, spokesman for a pro-Taleban militant group in Pakistan, told the BBC that the militants attacked Nato and Afghan forces when they tried to cross the border to the Pakistan side. Subsequently, he said, air strikes were called in, and the Pakistani checkpoint was hit.

A spokesman for the Nato-led Isaf forces in Afghanistan told the BBC that their forces were fired on from across the border and retaliated by firing back.

Low ebb

Both US forces and a Nato-led coalition forces are operating in Afghanistan, with Nato focused on peacekeeping and reconstruction and the US troops working more directly to combat militant activity.

An unnamed senior Nato official told the BBC an attack had been carried out by US - not Nato - forces.

The US has in the past launched missile strikes into Pakistani territory from unmanned aircraft, although it does not officially confirm such attacks.

Our correspondents says these strikes have caused anger in Pakistan as they are widely seen as a violation of its sovereignty, and there has been a lot of disquiet in Pakistan during the past month over the issue.

She says that if one of these air strikes did kill some Pakistani soldiers, it will certainly not help US-Pakistan relations, which some analysts say seem to be at their lowest ebb since the 11 September 2001 attacks on the US.

Pakistani troops have been killed in "friendly fire" on the border with Afghanistan on several occasions in the past.

But the latest is thought to have been the most deadly single incident.

'Smear campaign'

Taleban fighters have a strong presence in the border areas of the tribal districts and local administrators have little power there, although security forces keep a presence on the border posts.

Afghan and US-led forces accuse Islamabad of failing to stop infiltration by Taleban fighters who take refuge in Pakistan's tribal belt along the frontier, and are worried that the Pakistani government's recent peace talks with militants there will only give the Taleban more room for manoeuvre.

Pakistan says Nato and Afghan troops are not doing enough to monitor their side of the border, and that US air strikes that target suspected militants in the tribal areas only inflame the situation.

Also on Wednesday, Pakistan's military denounced a report by the US-funded Rand corporation accusing Pakistan's intelligence services and its paramilitaries of supporting Taleban insurgents with information and training.

The Pakistani military dismissed the claims as "factually incorrect" and "yet another smear campaign maligning Pakistan armed forces".

Meanwhile, in a separate incident, four civilians were killed in an operation by US-led forces in south-eastern Afghanistan, the coalition said.

Three women and a child died as troops targeted two militant leaders in Paktika province, killing "several" militants and detaining 12, a US military spokeswoman said.

An Interior Ministry spokesman told the Associated Press 31 people had died, mostly militants, while a local lawmaker told the news agency nine civilians had been killed. The death tolls could not be verified.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7447608.stm

What are Pakistan going to do about this? What can they do about this?

Saj
11th June 2008, 18:54
Indiscriminate bombing once again by the US military.

They "own" the EU, they "own" the UN and they "own" NATO, so as usual nobody will dare speak out against them.

Expect the usual rubbish of these were terrorists being shielded by non military people.

SameerM
11th June 2008, 18:57
PAK GOV should not stand for this.. get compensation or agree US will stay eg a certain distance away or atleast fight for a sorry

the SHA
11th June 2008, 19:01
The price of collaboration.

There is every chance that this type of scenario may get even worse from Pakistan's perspective. Especially since it is gaining more popularity from key stakeholders than the US offensive in Iraq these days.

Toony™®
11th June 2008, 19:09
Pak Government aint gonna do anything..

Indiafan
11th June 2008, 19:14
Its on CNN now

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/06/11/pakistan.troops.killed/index.html

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (CNN) -- Pakistan's army is blaming the U.S.-led coalition in Afghanistan for the deaths of at least 11 soldiers killed after a confrontation near the country's border with Afghanistan.


A Pakistani soldier patrols the mountain areas of the Pakistan and Afghanistan border in Mohmand.

A U.S. official with knowledge of the reports acknowledged Wednesday that U.S. planes launched an airstrike in the area on Tuesday but did so in "hot pursuit" of suspected militants who had conducted an ambush on the Afghan side of the border.

The official, speaking in Washington, said that the U.S. knew people were killed on the ground and would investigate whether Pakistani soldiers were among those killed in that location or nearby.

A Pakistani military statement condemned the "completely unprovoked and cowardly act" that killed 11 members of a Pakistani paramilitary force on Pakistani soil. It said the attack "had hit at the very basis of cooperation and sacrifice with which Pakistani soldiers are supporting the coalition in war against terror."

The statement said the attack took place at a "Frontier Corps border check post at **** Prai in Mohmand Agency" near the Afghan border.

According to the U.S. official, two U.S. Air Force F-15E aircraft bombed a suspected militant location inside Pakistan when fighters fled there after conducting an ambush on the Afghan side of the border.

According to the U.S. account of events, U.S. and Pakistani military officials tracked the militants as they fled across the border and the location was verified by a U.S. drone flying overhead as well as the Pakistanis.

The U.S. military then sent the warplanes which dropped four bombs on the location inside Pakistan. The planes used three 500-pound bombs and a single laser-guided bomb. The official said the mission was permitted under the rules of engagement which allow "hot pursuit" across the border of suspected militants when locations were verified.

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The U.S. official said it is believed seven were killed on the ground, but said that the military could not confirm their identities. He said the investigation would attempt to determine if Pakistani soldiers were among those killed either there or at nearby points where border clashes were common.

Earlier, a spokesman for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan said that ISAF forces were fired on near the border with Pakistan and that they responded.

The Pakistani statement said the military had lodged a strong protest and reserved "the right to protect our citizens and soldiers against aggression."

It said the fighting killed 11 members of Pakistan's Frontier Corps, which uses recruits from tribal areas and is overseen by army officers. Another 40 troops were missing, according to Pakistani news reports.

Several Pakistani news outlets and field observers with the Pakistan Institute of Peace said Afghan troops attacked a checkpoint in the Mohmand Agency, a region named for a Pashtun tribe, the Mohmands. The tribe exists in large numbers both in Pakistan and southeastern Afghanistan, and both countries often claim Mohmand as part of their territory.

Pakistani troops tried to re-take the checkpoint, and the two sides clashed, the peace institute said.

Muhammad Amir Rana, a spokesman for the institute, said NATO troops went to the area to assist Afghan soldiers.

In recent months, Pakistani officials have blamed U.S-led forces for launching missile strikes in its territory from Afghanistan. One such attack in the tribal region of Bajaur killed 14 people on May 14.

The Pakistani army has said that such attacks only make the job of securing the border more difficult.

"It's not fair," said General Athar Abbas, the army's top spokesman, in an interview with CNN. "The kind of effects it creates -- it's not only local. It's also within the country. And that is not good for any coalition.

"An act of this kind it certainly creates difficulties for both sides," he said.

Both Pakistan and Afghanistan are key U.S. allies in America's "war on terror."

the Great Khan
11th June 2008, 19:18
well just wait and see what Pak will now do..it seems the gloves are off....and it looks like the afghan army also needs to be taught a severe lesson...it seems they ended up in a firefight with the Mohmand tribals who the US probably thought were taliban...this is all karzais doing and really the next time the PA needs to send a very harsh message to these treacherous leeches!!..and I think they will...

OZGOD
11th June 2008, 19:20
I blame Dubya

TruSachFan
11th June 2008, 19:23
I blame Dubya
:)))

161
11th June 2008, 19:28
Pak Government aint gonna do anything..


Pak government can't do anything.

America and their b!tches Nato and the Afghans have an open license to bomb indiscriminately.

SameerM
11th June 2008, 19:37
bomb back i say!!

Kamranz
11th June 2008, 20:05
Pak can't do ****! They get paid to wipe the floor. Freshies loove workin like dogs.

akram_rejuvinated
11th June 2008, 21:24
bomb back i say!!

Pride before prudence ? Declaring war on the US will result in only ONE thing, i garantee you: Pakistan bombed into oblivion and the Arabian sea getting larger by roughly 800 thousand sq kms.

Why would you want to pick a fight knowing 100% that doing so means sure death ?

lahori
11th June 2008, 21:27
bomb back i say!!

bomb back where? you mean bomb the US embassy? That's been tried several times and only extends delays for those trying to get a US visa. :)

OZGOD
11th June 2008, 21:37
Pride before prudence ? Declaring war on the US will result in only ONE thing, i garantee you: Pakistan bombed into oblivion and the Arabian sea getting larger by roughly 800 thousand sq kms.

Why would you want to pick a fight knowing 100% that doing so means sure death ?

Remember this?




US 'threatened to bomb' Pakistan

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42062000/jpg/_42062768_armitage_203afp.jpg
The threat was alleged to have come from Richard Armitage

The US threatened to bomb Pakistan "back to the stone age" unless it joined the fight against al-Qaeda, President Pervez Musharraf has said.

General Musharraf said the warning was delivered by former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage to Pakistan's intelligence director.

"I think it was a very rude remark," Gen Musharraf told CBS television.

Pakistan agreed to side with the US, but Gen Musharraf said it did so based on his country's national interest.

"One has to think and take actions in the interest of the nation, and that's what I did," he said.

~

The Pakistani president said that, following the attacks of 11 September 2001, the US made some "ludicrous" demands of Pakistan.

"The intelligence director told me that Mr Armitage said, 'Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age'," he said.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2006/09/21/afx3036766.html

Like I said, I blame Dubya. 5 more months!!

akram_rejuvinated
11th June 2008, 21:42
Remember this?

Yes.
But i still don't see what you are driving at - are you suggesting that PAK should retaliate militarily against the US in Afghanistan or Qatar ? doing so would mean 100% end of Pakistan and about 150 million dead.
Even if the bully keeps pricking you with a needle, why would you pick a fight with him knowing with 100% certainty that to do so would mean you are dead ??

HillRock
11th June 2008, 21:43
Actually, instead of doing something in retaliation, not doing anything will be a better revenge. I mean, call back all Pakistani regular army soldiers from that area. They (US and NATO) cannot handle Afghanis alone and when they will have to deal with Pakistani tribes, they will be facing bigger nightmare than they are facing in Iraq.

OZGOD
11th June 2008, 22:15
Yes.
But i still don't see what you are driving at - are you suggesting that PAK should retaliate militarily against the US in Afghanistan or Qatar ? doing so would mean 100% end of Pakistan and about 150 million dead.
Even if the bully keeps pricking you with a needle, why would you pick a fight with him knowing with 100% certainty that to do so would mean you are dead ??

No. My post was intended to illustrate that retaliation is the wrong option. Unfortunately I don't think you guys have too many options. Because in addition to the military "support", there's a lot of money flowing into Pakistan from the US at the moment. You may just have to suck it up.

hussain_0216
12th June 2008, 01:06
Simple response,,

Be smiles on the outside, say how we must get over this and be friends to defeat terrorism.

BUT

Ferment the anger which the Americans are sowing then arm the Taliban to the teeth with some good weapons, via the ISI provide them with intelligence support and get the to go fight and kill the americans.


Karzai and the afghan government are worthless and are the enemies of Pakistan, The taliban were better then them for us, they need to be removed.....


Pakistan dosent need to openly get involved with anything, but it needs to respond and get revenge

hussain_0216
12th June 2008, 01:08
Most important is that whilst the politicians can make speech after speech about how we should fight the Taliban..

but in reality just like we have been doing, we need to make peace with the militants and set them back on the Americans...

Pakistan has to show those thick pieces of **** that there are consequence for there actions.

DM
12th June 2008, 01:17
:))) you are a legend H 0216!

DHONI183
12th June 2008, 01:59
Pakistan can´t let this happen. An immediate reaction is required.

switchblade
12th June 2008, 02:43
Bomb another Indian city in response.. the softest terrorist target in the world. Indian lives are the cheapest on the planet.

If you kill 1 American, they will kill a thousand Pakistanis in retaliation. Same with jews.

But If you bomb India and kill a thousand people here, our govt will do nothing and will just "condemn" the blasts :))

Daoud
12th June 2008, 07:08
Actually, instead of doing something in retaliation, not doing anything will be a better revenge. I mean, call back all Pakistani regular army soldiers from that area. They (US and NATO) cannot handle Afghanis alone and when they will have to deal with Pakistani tribes, they will be facing bigger nightmare than they are facing in Iraq.
That is actually quite a good idea. And to think Americans have the nerve of saying we arent really pulling our weight in all this.

lahori
12th June 2008, 08:01
Simple response,,

Be smiles on the outside, say how we must get over this and be friends to defeat terrorism.

BUT

Ferment the anger which the Americans are sowing then arm the Taliban to the teeth with some good weapons, via the ISI provide them with intelligence support and get the to go fight and kill the americans.


Karzai and the afghan government are worthless and are the enemies of Pakistan, The taliban were better then them for us, they need to be removed.....


Pakistan dosent need to openly get involved with anything, but it needs to respond and get revenge

you do realize that will only make the US more mad and next thing we know they would start bombing the smithereens out of major cities.

the Great Khan
12th June 2008, 16:05
Simple response,,

Be smiles on the outside, say how we must get over this and be friends to defeat terrorism.

BUT

Ferment the anger which the Americans are sowing then arm the Taliban to the teeth with some good weapons, via the ISI provide them with intelligence support and get the to go fight and kill the americans.


Karzai and the afghan government are worthless and are the enemies of Pakistan, The taliban were better then them for us, they need to be removed.....


Pakistan dosent need to openly get involved with anything, but it needs to respond and get revenge

lets just say thats now already happening...we have outmanuevered the terrorist elements that were being supported from afghanistan hence the desperation shown by these barbarians when attacking an outpost...most of teh PA troops are out of the tribal areas, and if these attacks persist well lets just say teh ISI will have to open up a few doors for karzai...he is desperate to win the elections and needs to paint us as villians..

as for teh americans , their afghan adventure is doomed from day one..and further alienating the tribals will just make matters worse...its not our problem anymore..they cand eal with the repurcussions of this in afghanistan!!...we have to maintain the peace in our country not fight dubya useless war!!....

Indiafan
12th June 2008, 16:19
Simple response,,

Be smiles on the outside, say how we must get over this and be friends to defeat terrorism.

BUT

Ferment the anger which the Americans are sowing then arm the Taliban to the teeth with some good weapons, via the ISI provide them with intelligence support and get the to go fight and kill the americans.


Karzai and the afghan government are worthless and are the enemies of Pakistan, The taliban were better then them for us, they need to be removed.....


Pakistan dosent need to openly get involved with anything, but it needs to respond and get revenge

and ones the taliban are done with that, you believe they will just walk away and leave Pak alone? Look at what happend to Russia and Taliban

10 to 1, those guys will turn on Pak next, try to intefere with politics and creat terror and chaos

observer1
12th June 2008, 18:03
Do you think the Pakistan Government actually cares ??

The Soldiers are Just pawns to the Pakistani government..

The Pakistani Government are just Puppets to it's US Leaders... This is not the First time something like this has happened.

I doubt the US Actually cares.

linuxaddict
12th June 2008, 19:35
I think its a matter of time money going to Mushy's gang redirected to the ruling party. Once that is done, then the Govt will join "war on terror". Eitherway I dont see PAK has any other choices. Somehow Pakistan doesn't seems to demand enuf respect for a Nuclear Power. If the Americans really knows that, there wont be making open statements like bombing to stone age. For now leave US alone, first PAK should bring all those tribal areas under control that seems to the source for all issues.

lahori
12th June 2008, 19:38
The ordinary Pakistani citizen doesn't give a hoot about the ongoing Afghan / Iraq war. Yes they are concerned after all they are Muslim, but at the end of the day, feeding the family, finding employment and trying to make ends meet have higher priority.

12thMan
13th June 2008, 04:22
Pak can't do ****! They get paid to wipe the floor. Freshies loove workin like dogs.unless you are counting yourself in it, don't make such statements. Some desis in UK are pretty arrogant but forget they didn't really achive anything just by being born or raised in UK. Take some care what you say otherwise unban the pa@ki word and we will see how you are thought of in the protection of being raised in west or the advanced or the righteous world is. UK is involved in this war so what are you doing other than paying taxes to support it

First I thought the term was jsut for fun for newly arrived Paksitani in UK but it is for all who is not raised in UK. Great! I salute you sarkar.