View Full Version : Why do Pakistan and India(esp) not perform in the Olympics

8th August 2008, 20:17
All of the heavily populated countries tend to leave with a lot of medals (China, Russia, USA...etc) but India and Pakistan the 2nd and 6th most populated countries in the world tend to leave with hardly anything.

India's record is especially terrible with a total of 12 medals post partition.

What's the reason?

Lack of interest?

8th August 2008, 23:31
lol just look at the number of athletes that compete Wazeeri. With Pakistan our main hopes are pinned on hockey, but we all know what’s happened on the hockey front. Same thing with India (they didn’t even qualify this time round!), both countries don’t have many 'athletes' as to say. Pakistan nor India doesn’t have many track and field do they?
India has a couple of shooters i think (their best chance I think).
We have athletes competing in Athletics, Men’s Hockey, Swimming and Shooting.

Lack of interest plays a part also, not many people are interested in hurdles or diving etc. IF cricket was to make it to the Olympics………then who knows?

Also did you see the USA, China and Russia in the opening ceremony, compared to that of Pakistan and India? The amount of people they had compared to Pakistan and India...



9th August 2008, 00:24
i see, we won a gold and a bronze in 1960, i'm presuming hockey is one? and the other??

9th August 2008, 00:29
i see, we won a gold and a bronze in 1960, i'm presuming hockey is one? and the other??

They won their first Olympic Games gold medal by defeating India in hockey. The bronze came, through welterweight wrestler Mohammad Bashir in the freestyle contests.

9th August 2008, 01:40
like almost everything else..we don't have a proper infrastructure for anything. The talent is definitely there, but the opportunity is either not given or its just neglected altogether.

a good example would be when our hockey team was leaving for the Olympics there was no one to even see them off...we all know our current hockey team isn't great...but the fact that everyone treats them as dirt doesn't help the cause

All of the heavily populated countries tend to leave with a lot of medals (China, Russia, USA...etc) but India and Pakistan the 2nd and 6th most populated countries in the world tend to leave with hardly anything.

India's record is especially terrible with a total of 12 medals post partition.

What's the reason?

Lack of interest?

9th August 2008, 02:31
Simple answer - We (Paksitan) are not a sporting country.

Longer answer is difficult. We really don't support sports individually and nationally. We don't go watch sports either. An example, taken from a report and paraphrasing here, during the South Asia Games (or something like that could be South East Asian games) in Islamabad couple of years ago, people were not going to watch. They made the tickets free too but still not enough people. But there were more people outside the stadium around the fountains and food stands. So now a new stadium is there but no people. Why build stadiums then or even increase the capacity of current ones? Fill them up for sports you have first and why waste money holding these events? Yes they are increasing Qaddafi stadium capacity because there might be 3-4 games in next 3 years that might need it.

Now for the people in Pakistan - I can probably say 20 years ago if you were playing a sport in school parents or your locality didn't care. No one probably went to see it. That is the encouragement you get. Ofcourse the facilities are bad but unless you go to watch them money is less to improve them. But then we say later where are our athletes.

If anything we should be really disappointed that with cricket being the number one sport and the only sport that matters we are doing bad. But that might be a good sign as the attention might go to some other sports. Promote sports and competition in schools and colleges if you want to be better

9th August 2008, 18:05
What are Pakistans and India's prospects in the olympics in other events (not hockey!)

Any competitions that might spring a surprise?

Indian middleweight vijender kumar is winning an awfully bad match at the mo!

9th August 2008, 18:18
The MAIN problems apart from mis-management is again the malaise affecting the government - corruption.

Very glad to see dawn news launch on Prime TV here in the UK - presenter was interviewing the Pak football chairmen/executive/head and he answered very poorly in english - point is thatshe asked:

Hw can you justify spending FIFA money on a new plush HQ when our team is doing apallingly bad (recent Asia cup and World cup qualifiers)?

His answer: well he ignored the question and just talked about "development" and some 10 year plan (possibly an extension to his house or HQ ;) )

Thus we have established in this thread that Pak and India (i'm not ignoring SL and Bangladesh - jus dont know enough about them)

- Lack of money in OLYMPIC sports and sports outside cricket.
- poor infrastructure
- Public apathy/disinterest in sport in general (be a doctor

12th man is ABSOLUTELY ON POINT here - I am absolutely astounded at how my pak (nopt really india) seem to be extrememly disinterested in going in the evening/holidays to watch sport.

The free ticket point is interesting because i linked bad attendaence with tticket prices

Are our people too busy with domestic family issues, too lazy/cant be bothered,

- When talent is there nobody to scout VS We dont have talent (hard to believe from what i have seen)

What AMAZES me is why football never took off in colonial india the way cricket did - or am i being ignorant to the years that cricket was'nt actually as popular as it is today (e.g. - IF our countries had produced BACK THEN a good football team/boxer we would be interested now - but what then of hockey?)

Just read up on Pak not sending boxers to olympics (didnt qualify - India did BTW) - terrible.

9th August 2008, 19:32

The number of athletes who attend the olympics doesn't reflect interest directly. A country can only send an athlete to the olympics if that athlete meets the standards set by the olympics authority.

The reason why pakistan and India have such a small team is because they don't have people meeting the standards.

i see, we won a gold and a bronze in 1960, i'm presuming hockey is one? and the other??

Pakistan at the Olympics
Gold Silver Bronze TOTAL
Hockey 3 3 2 8
Wrestling 1 1
Boxing 1 1
3 3 4 10

INDIA post partition

Gold Silver Bronze TOTAL
Hockey 5 1 2 8
Wrestling 1 1
Tennis 1 1
Weight Lifting 1 1
Shooting 1 1

5 2 5 12

9th August 2008, 19:38
The problem is the ever present circle of Pakistani doom.

Poverty ----> Corruption
| |

Poverty ----> Malnutrition
| |

9th August 2008, 22:03
For Pakistan it will be very hard and a huge surprise if they do win a medal. It will be like a Hari Puttar moment. I think the olympics will have to de dedicated to that medal and the indivdual

10th August 2008, 15:43
our sports budget is just around 250cr Rs , how do you expect to have world class athletes with that kind of budget ......lack of interests in Olympic sports is another reason ..even in recent times non-crickets sportsmen who have been doing well are not in Olympic sports !

our best bet for medal are lee-mahesh in tennis doubles , boxing , archery & shooting .....we have couple of world champs in shooting & archery but sadly they have been under porforming in olympics ...we beat korea recently to win the archery world cup , but lets see what they do here !

10th August 2008, 19:38
Pakistan is only competing in Men's Hockey
The rest are wild card entries with next to no chance.

10th August 2008, 20:38
If the following events were at the Olympics then India and Pakistan would be gold medal favourites every time :-

S hit stirring

10th August 2008, 22:43
an article on medals and countries. Though I didn't see them listing the number of athletes going (team sport I will count as 1 member because counting hockey team as 11 players maybe misleading)

• a country's GDP (bigger economies win more medals)

• a country's population (not so important)

• a country's public spending on recreation in the four years up to the Games (significant; but with a lot of extra spending needed for each extra medal)

• whether a country had been a member of the Soviet bloc (ex-communist countries are still over-performing)

• which country is host (worth about 20 medals)

• whether a country had been a previous host

• which country will be the next host

• how many medals a country had won at the last Games (momentum is important)

Examining data from Games between 1960 and 1996, they found that the size of a country's economy (its GDP) was the single most important predictor of how many medals it achieved....

From 1990, there was data available from UN sources on total government spending on "recreation". This was taken as a proxy for spending on sport (although it includes other activities as well) and found that governments could indeed boost national performance with a bigger budget.


11th August 2008, 08:48
If we can come fourth or fifth in the medal tally I'll be pretty happy. I don't think our team is as strong this year as it has been in the past. The Americans will own us in the swimming now that Thorpe and a few others have retired.

11th August 2008, 10:11
ABHEY SH IT ....india won a gold medal in shooting...why cant pak win anything i hate us...omg im gonna cry.
BTW congrats to india. u guys also have a girl in top 16 in tenns out of 64 currently whos playin now. good luck to her

11th August 2008, 11:10
India is getting foreign investment duet their economic policies- more and more people are moving to middle class status.

Indian Government is investing more.
Sania Mirza's family were upper middle class hence why her talent was nurtured.

Poor people can't afford to play sport competitively. It is up to the authorities to provide the infrastructure.

Pakistan and its people need to decide what future it wants to follow. I believe Religious duties also has an impact.

We aren't gonna see any women for Pakistan do anything .. unless they are brought up in the west or are mixed race.

11th August 2008, 12:11

11th August 2008, 13:36
I'm surprised to hear that Squash isnt part of the olympics.

Heck we would won alot more if it was.

Anyway Switchblade, that one gold doesnt prove anything. The first individual gold in Indias history.

Its pathetic if you ask me.

Same goes for Pakistan.

11th August 2008, 13:48
The population advantage works only if you make the most out of it- identify gifted children from a large talent pool and help them realise their potential with the world class training through qualified top notch coaches sports science, psychologists, fitness/medical staff

precisely why russia ,US AND CHINA will remain at the top for a long time. or a 20million country like australia with a healthy sporting culture cannot be among the very top with a more limited talent pool.

but the trained talent pool is pretty limited in India. cuba for example trains around 60000 boxers seriously compared to india's 12000 acroding to our sports minister.

only the people exposed to quality training standards count. and even more only people of serious talent count . you have to remove mediocre sportsmen.

no serious talent identification programs in place. no serious infrastruture in place. not mention abunadance of quality staff so both the key areas are a total failure.

even in the popular game cricket,only recently serious talented players have started to come out more from less fancied rural areas and schools, dhoni being the prominent.

i pretty well know how recent international cricketers from my state hailed from one training school in my city. that has been the case. people from metros and if not certain schools and academies dominate a limited talent pool and still do in a way.

its when people from the far flung rural areas count with access to proper training, the population of india will be an advantage

11th August 2008, 13:53
Another key point is a vision from the top to fix a lot of the key areas.

countries like australia have it.

i don't think the IOA OR SAI have shown any tangible vision from what i have seen. better leadership required as well.

11th August 2008, 21:52
Another key point is a vision from the top to fix a lot of the key areas.

countries like australia have it.

i don't think the IOA OR SAI have shown any tangible vision from what i have seen. better leadership required as well.

Australia has a tradition of excellence in the Olympics, especially considering how small our population is. But it wasn't always so - in 1976 we didn't even win a single gold medal. That was the catalyst for change. As you said need the right infrastructure in place to identify athletes and support them as their pursue their dreams/careers.

I posted this here a while back and thought it was useful to do so again.

The AIS - An Icon for Excellence in Sport by Matthew Eggins

From: Excellence : the Australian Institute of Sport. Canberra, Australian Sports Commission, 1998 (updated Jan 2002)

The race for excellence has no finish line. In Australia, the race starts at the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS).

While the catalyst for an institute of sport was Australia's performance at the Montreal Olympic Games in 1976 (one silver medal and four bronze medals) moves had been made three years earlier to adopt a more professional approach to elite sport. In 1973 Professor John Bloomfield was commissioned by the government to prepare a sports plan. His report, The Role, Scope and Development of Recreation in Australia (1) , was based on studies of sports institutes in Europe and their success in developing elite athletes. Bloomfield suggested to the federal government that it should establish a national institute of sport similar to those operating in European countries.

Towards the end of 1974 the Minister for Tourism and Recreation, Frank Stewart, appointed a study group (chaired by Dr Allan Coles) to report on the feasibility of such an institute in Australia. The Coles Report was released in 1975 and recommended the establishment of a sports institute. (2)

The latter half of the seventies was a difficult period for Australian sport, indeed a difficult time for a sports-proud nation. The idea of setting up an institute remained just that, and the momentum of Munich (eight gold, seven silver and two bronze) had not carried through to Montreal (Australia finished 32nd overall). The new decade brought no respite either as the Australian Olympic Federation (now the AOC) ignored the government's request to boycott the Moscow Olympics in protest at the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. An uneasiness existed between sport and government. The climate for the establishment of a sports institute was not favourable.

The Bloomfield and Coles reports, however, were not lost on Bob Ellicott, the Minister for Home Affairs and Environment. Buoyed by the concept of a national sports institute during a trip to China and keen to bridge the gap between government and sport, in 1980 Ellicott and his staff offered the Coles Report as a model plan for Australia. The plan would allow our athletes to train and develop in Australia rather than be forced overseas.

Ellicott's vision was well received and on Australia Day, 26 January 1981, the AIS was officially opened by Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser. Renowned swim coach, Don Talbot was appointed as the Institute's first Director.

The mission was clear and desperately needed to put the brakes on our ailing international sporting reputation - develop elite sport in Australia by providing facilities and funding to sporting organisations and potential elite athletes.

On the strength of Australia's performance at the 1984 Olympic Games in Los Angeles - AIS athletes won seven of the 12 swimming medals, gymnastics recorded a best-ever performance and three track and field athletes finished in the top six in their events - Sport Minister John Brown announced four more AIS sports; squash and diving, to be located in Brisbane, and rowing and water polo in Canberra. The AIS investment was beginning to pay dividends and this was reflected in the 1985-86 federal budget which gave the Institute a 60% funding increase.

The Institute was initially based in Canberra with eight sports basketball, gymnastics, netball, soccer, swimming, tennis, track and field and weightlifting. While some of the original sports, for example basketball and netball, have remained in Canberra others, such as tennis, have relocated to Melbourne, or in the case of weightlifting have ceased to be an Institute program.

These days the AIS offers assistance to athletes through a network of coaches on campuses in Brisbane, the Gold Coast, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth and through a number of regional centres. Scholarships are offered to elite athletes in 35 disciplines with rugby league, triathlon and Winter sports for athletes with a disability among the recent inclusions.

Approximately 700 athletes now receive scholarships from the Institute each year. These athletes receive top level coaching; access to equipment, sport science and medicine facilities; accommodation, meals and travel; and assistance with education and career planning. Of the 800 athletes who applied for a place in the Institute's first year of operation, 152 were successful.

The athletes' accommodation and site buildings of today are also a far cry from January 1981. Australia's elite used to be housed in residential colleges at nearby tertiary institutions, and the training facilities were so few that at one stage five different sports were sharing the indoor sports centre.

Today, the 65 hectare AIS site located in the Canberra suburb of Bruce is also a symbol of excellence. There are two arenas, an indoor swimming centre, a gymnastics hall, soccer and hockey fields, multi-purpose indoor training facilities and a sport science building incorporating the famous AIS biomechanics dome. The Institute's world class facilities and services are also used by touring international teams and overseas athletes, national, state and regional sporting organisations and visitors from within and outside the ACT.

As Kevan Gosper (Chairman of the first AIS Board) remarked during the Institute's 15th anniversary celebrations in 1996, the Canberra headquarters is 'a shrine of excellence. It is one of Australia's more successful ventures in education and research. You have to have an icon for excellence in sport, and that is the AIS'. (3)

Like any government agency, this 'icon for excellence in sport', must be administered effectively and be accountable. Through successive Directors (Don Talbot 1981-83, John Cheffers 1984-86, Ron Harvey 1987-89, Robert de Castella 1990-95, John Boultbee 1995 -2001 and Michael Scott 2001-present) the AIS has been a dynamic organisation - reviewing programs, evaluating performance, changing strategies, and at times responding to public comment and controversy. The central mission, however, has remained constant: to provide young Australians with the opportunity to develop their ultimate sporting potential. In the words of marathon champion and former AIS Director, Rob de Castella, the AIS is 'a program from the public purse so it needs a high degree of accountability, but when you get 500 athletes and 70 coaches together and you have very strong personalities ... it's a recipe for sensation.' (4)

In 1985, shortly after the Institute started 'spreading tentacles' (hockey had been set up in Perth in 1984), AIS sports underwent an assessment amid concerns that the individual sports such as track and field (athletics) and weightlifting were not performing as well as the AIS team sports (eg rowing and hockey). AIS track and field athletes were unable to obtain the same success as the swimmers in Los Angeles - a point further highlighted by a weak showing in the World Cup athletics held at the AIS in October 1985.

At the same time questions were being asked by the AIS Board (and in the media) on the direction in which the Institute was heading. Towards the end of 1985 amid growing concerns as to how the Institute was distributing its funds, Sport Minister John Brown ordered an inquiry. Cabinet had already decided to alter the status of the AIS from a private company to a statutory authority to ensure there would be more scrutiny by the Minister and greater accountability to Parliament.

The AIS Board became more involved in the day-to-day running of the Institute and advocated an approach focused on developing a select band of elite athletes. By the end of 1986, Prime Minister Bob Hawke had announced that an AIS cricket program, assisted by the Australian Cricket Board, would be based in Adelaide.

In August 1987 the government formalised their decision to rationalise federal assistance to Australian sport and the AIS merged with the Australian Sports Commission (ASC), which was to be the agency responsible for general sports participation as well as high performance sport.

These days the AIS maintains its elite athlete focus within the ASC and sits alongside two other administrative groups - Business operations and the Sport Development Group. Bouyed by the performances of the AIS athletes past and present at the 2000 Olympics (321 current/former scholarship holders won seven gold, 11 silver and 13 bronze medals), the Institute has continued to expand with the addition of several more sports including women's soccer, triathlon, Winter sports for athletes with disabilities, sailing and rugby league.

Elite coaches and athletes not only have world class facilities at their fingertips but have access to specialist programs and the Commission's extensive resources.

The AIS also prides itself on preparing athletes for life away from the sporting arena. The Athlete Career and Education (ACE) program ensures that our elite athletes are equipped with skills that will benefit them when their sporting days are over. While at the AIS, in some cases before they are household names, athletes are sought for after dinner speaking engagements, promotional functions and the like. ACE advisers arrange for them to receive training in public speaking, media presentation, career planning and time management.

Apart from training, eating, sleeping, studying and working, athletes can often be seen entering the sport science/sports medicine building to consult with the sport psychologists or sport nutritionists, receive a massage or perhaps undergo some testing in the biomechanics dome. The relationship which develops between the athlete and their support staff can never be underestimated for in the heat of international competition familiarity with those around you is crucial for individual and team morale.

Behind every elite athlete is a coach, and the AIS employs around 75 coaches. From head coaches to assistant coaches and scholarship coaches they are a tight-knit group united in their goal - to help athletes realise their potential. Ask any sports administrator and they will tell you that elite sport should be coach-driven.

Visitors to the AIS campus can now get an insight into 'a day in the life of an elite athlete' thanks to the athlete-guided tours and the interactive exhibition Sportex. Within minutes one can be hearing firsthand about life as an AIS athlete or soaking up the atmosphere of the AIS Arena.

One of the most commonly-asked questions on these tours is, 'Do you have time to do anything else other than train?' Any successful athlete will tell you that balance in one's life is a key ingredient to performing in competition. AIS athletes are, expected to pursue a course of study and/or work, perhaps in one of the Commission's programs or in the outside workforce, at the same time as they maintain their rigorous training schedule. Some are employed with Australia's leading companies through the Olympic Job Opportunities Program where the company benefits through its association with the athlete who in turn, acquires career skills and receives an income while being allowed time off to train and compete.

Another commonly-asked question refers to preparation: 'How much training do you have to do?' Athletes don't have a heavy training schedule every week. There are recovery periods where the intensity may be reduced, and tapering or winding down towards a forthcoming event such as an Olympic Games or a world championships. For elite athletes, training intensity is designed around major events; it is imperative that they arrive for competition feeling fresh and not having overtrained.

For youngsters eager to pursue their sporting dreams a burning question is, 'How are athletes selected for the AIS?' There are several routes into the AIS. Scholarships are advertised each July in the national press and individuals can apply. More usually though, talented athletes are identified by national sporting organisations, or spotted by AIS coaches at national championships, or have completed AIS Intensive Training Centre programs.

For young Australians who show potential to go to the top of their sport, the AIS experience is a truly unique one. More than just a sport environment, the AIS - with its spirit and support network - is a family; Where else, for example, would you find elite netball and soccer players interacting with and supporting elite boxers and gymnasts - and all in an arena where specialist advice on any number of subjects is no more than a home straight away. At the welcome home for the AIS Atlanta Olympians, athletes could not have been more generous in their appreciation of the AIS coaches and training squads, the house parents, their own parents, the massage therapists, the sport psychologists, the sport scientists, the administrative staff, the chefs and even those athletes who had preceded them at the Institute, for their inspiration and direction. So many to thank, for the AIS family is a large one.


11th August 2008, 22:23
Najam for more assistance to Pakistan from Chinese Sports experts

By Ehsan Qureshi

BEIJING, Aug 11 (APP): Federal Sports Minister Najamuddin Khan said Monday that he is holding discussions with Chinese Sports experts and other Commonwealth officials for support in improving the overall sports system in Pakistan.

Najamuddin Khan, who is here with a delegation of Pakistan Sports Ministery to attend Beijing Olympic Games, told APP in an interview here at Hockey Green Stadium that he held several useful meetings with Chinese Sports officials to provide equipment donations and help in improving sports infrastructure in Pakistan.

He admitted that Pakistan sports were on a serious decline and he is looking for assistance to Pakistan from powerful sporting nations.

Pakistan delegation also included Federal Secretary Sports Anwar Khan and Senator Zafar Iqbal Chaudhary, Head of Senate Standing Committee on Sports.

The Minister said Pakistan needed a new vision, honest sports management in reviving its sports and induction of young blood in sports organization. He said his mission is to remove “Kabza Group” from sports.

“These elements have destroyed the sports and they must be dislodged in the larger interest of revival of sports in the country,” he stressed.

The Chinese officials have assured him that they would be providing Pakistan sports equipment and technical support in lifting the standard of the games, he informed.

Sports Minister hinted that Chinese Olympic Games Organizing Committee may provide some of the sports equipments being used in Beijing Olympics and some spare equipments.

He said Sports Minister from some Commonwealth Countries have expressed their desire in helping Pakistan in sports fields.

“We are persuading Chinese and CW countries for scholarships and training facilities of our sportspersons in their countries,” he said.

Najamuddin Khan said it was a grand experience for him to attend the Olympic Games of this magnitude and watch world’s best athletes in action here.

He congratulated Government and People of China for excellent arrangements made for the Olympics. Beijing Olympics are best in history and China showed to the world their capabilities with historic opening ceremony, he said.

Pakistan Hockey Federation (PHF) President Mir Zafarullah Khan, Jamali, Sports Minister Najamuddin and Zafar Iqbal watched Pakistan’s opening hockey match against Great Britain here Monday which Pakistan lost.

Link (http://www.app.com.pk/en_/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48339&Itemid=1)

11th August 2008, 23:21
also recently, the chinese have been investing in their peoples health.. i read they are on average 2 inches taller compared to the 60s.

1st September 2008, 05:18
I am watching some show on DAWN news TV and these desi experts are discussing English club soccer. They look excited. But will someone do this coverage of local sports instead of some foreign domestic sports.

Geordie Ahmed
8th September 2008, 07:56
from bbc.co.uk/sport

India's Olympic champion shooter Abhinav Bindra has hit out at the nation's sports coaches and officials, saying they "know nothing" about sport.

"Indian athletes have no respect for most officials," the 26-year-old told the Times of India.

India won their best ever haul, a gold and two bronze medals, in Beijing.

But Bindra, who won gold in the 10m air rifle event, said there was "no magic solution" to make the underperforming nation a sporting power.

"If we want to get to double digits, we need to target 2016 and start working from today," he said.

"But the respective federations have no vision and I don't see that changing. I wish I had a magic solution but unfortunately, I don't. The IOA has to play a role in building athletes. It does nothing."

Bindra made his comments to the Times of India after being invited to edit the national paper's Friday edition.

He said Indian athletes had to "be on good terms with officials because one needs to survive".

"But most officials, and many of the so-called coaches who travel with the teams, know nothing about the sport.

"The athletes don't talk about this because their careers are at stake. And the officials unfortunately don't care."

He also revealed that he had to fund his travel to Beijing from his training base in Germany, because Indian Olympic officials refused to pay.

Bindra also took a swipe at the country's cricket-obsessed media, saying Olympic sports did not get the publicity they deserved.

"Why not just rename the sports pages 'cricket pages'?," he asked.

All of India's eight previous Olympic golds came in the field hockey tournament.