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i m gr8
20th September 2008, 19:52
At Aaj TV website:

Big blast around Marriott Hotel Islamabad, 25 injured


ISLAMABAD ( 2008-09-20 19:18:29 ) :A large explosion was heard around Marriott Hotel in Islamabad on Saturday. According to Aaj TV report, more than 25 people were injured in this powerfull blast. Abmblances has reached on the blast spot.

Hash
20th September 2008, 19:52
I heard this one.

Suicide ******* rams his car into the gates of the Marriot Hotel. 2 people confirmed dead (I'd imagine the guards at the gate....who are all 'yaars' of mine)

cars112
20th September 2008, 19:53
Huge explosion heard in Pakistani capital

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) — A large explosion has occurred in the vicinity of the Marriott Hotel in Pakistan's capital.

The blast resounded through Islamabad but there was no immediate word on casualties or the cause.

Many foreigners stay in the hotel while visiting Pakistan and it is heavily guarded.

Pakistan has faced a wave of violence in recent weeks following military offensives against insurgents in its border regions.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jM_dFZu6OlJGY-syTjldIu-BXZeAD93AGC580

i m gr8
20th September 2008, 19:53
Me too heard this :(

b0wld
20th September 2008, 19:58
Oh f***....wat carnage..Marriott Hotel completely destroyed...its ceilings have all cracked... 1st and 3rd floor are in fire...the strong branches of the tress are all down to little shrubs...and all this is a f******** RED ALERT ZONE

b0wld
20th September 2008, 20:00
I amm certain the s***** Indian RAW are behind the attacks..taking revenge of the Delhi Bomb Blasts

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 20:01
Wheres the guy who was calling Taliban our muslim brothers?

Maverick I believe.

bablu_khan
20th September 2008, 20:02
can this be linked with USA??

recently they are doing this in Pakistan a lot, bombarding places and now they have reached Islamabad too. pathetic to say the least.

i hope no one is dead.

ALLAH, WHERE ARE YOU.

DM
20th September 2008, 20:02
The intelligence services (or "covert ops" as they call them) from India and the US are so deeply involved it's unreal. It's barely secret.

DM
20th September 2008, 20:08
Hope no-one has anyone close affected

rahulrulezz
20th September 2008, 20:30
Rip

Vegitto1
20th September 2008, 20:37
India is behind this. My views about India atm will get me banned....

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 20:38
Inaillahi wainaillahi rajioun :(

Some saying a car packed with explosives drove upto the front gates and the blast occured. There's also some talk saying that there was a gas leak in the hotel which made it worse!

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 20:40
India is behind this. My views about India atm will get most of us banned....

.

ahsan17
20th September 2008, 20:41
India is behind this. My views about India atm will get me banned....
You're being no different than Indians who blame Pakistan for whatever happens within minutes. At least wait for an investigation and final verdict. Yeah I suppose all clues point to India, but it's speculation none the less.

Dhonifan
20th September 2008, 20:44
Horrible and sad! RIP all who died

sharuk
20th September 2008, 20:46
this was a suicide bomber so its most likely a fundamentalist brainwashed muslim, not an Indian or American, this forum truely has a lot of joke people who think everything wrong is American or Indian. Get a life. people are dying, fundamentalists are slowly taking over the country and you blame India and America.

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 20:48
Isn't the PM and presidential palace in very close proximity to the Marriot hotel?

ahsan17
20th September 2008, 20:55
this was a suicide bomber so its most likely a fundamentalist brainwashed muslim, not an Indian or American, this forum truely has a lot of joke people who think everything wrong is American or Indian. Get a life. people are dying, fundamentalists are slowly taking over the country and you blame India and America.
How is it a joke? Just because it was a suicide bomber, doesn't rule out that this was indian or american. You know, they provide funds to these terrorists, so you know where that leads to. They are not taking over the country slowly btw.

moumotta
20th September 2008, 20:59
Condolences to all who lost their lives in this madness.

moumotta
20th September 2008, 21:00
and to the jokers of posters, get a brain.

Can we sue for double standards..

ahsan17
20th September 2008, 21:05
and to the jokers of posters, get a brain.

Can we sue for double standards..
So what about the indians who take no time to blame. I am not blaming anyone yet btw, however the possibility is definitely high.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:05
How is it a joke? Just because it was a suicide bomber, doesn't rule out that this was indian or american. You know, they provide funds to these terrorists, so you know where that leads to.
Exactly, puppet that carries out the bomb is the tip of the iceberg. They don't sprout out of thin air, there's infiltration and support networks. The US especially is guilty of covert ops in a list of countries as long as your arm (google "US Intervention" or "US military intervention". This is not new to them.

dblock
20th September 2008, 21:06
India is behind this. My views about India atm will get me banned....

Passing blame without proof may ease the anger slightly but it will not help solve the problem and help stop these acts.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:10
Exactly, puppet that carries out the bomb is the tip of the iceberg. They don't sprout out of thin air, there's infiltration and support networks. The US especially is guilty of covert ops in a list of countries as long as your hand (google "US Intervention" or "US military intervention". This is not new to them.


covert operations are not suicide bombings. stop with the hypocrisy and blame game and fix pakistan itself before blaming others.

Blistering Barnacle
20th September 2008, 21:13
The Taliban is responsible dudes, not the US or India.

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:16
CIA officers were present in the hotel at the time.

Some foreigners are reported killed.

The plot thickens.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:16
covert operations are not suicide bombings.
I'm sorry but you are wrong. If actually do want to know why, do the google search I post above.

And this is not any type of hypocrisy whatsoever, the guy who blew himself up of course is guilty, but if you dont successfully identify the source you will never have a hope in hell of stopping the flow.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:17
CIA officers were present in the hotel at the time.

Some foreigners are reported killed.

The plot thickens.

keep pointing out fake conspiracy theories. the paranoia of some Pakistani people is amazing, its amazing the country has not broken up into 4

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:19
I'm sorry but you are wrong. If actually do want to know why, do the google search I post above.

And this is not any type of hypocrisy whatsoever, the guy who blew himself up of course is guilty, but if you dont successfully identify the source you will never have a hope in hell of stopping the flow.

google is an American company which provides thier search data to the US intelligence, will you now stop using it? I thought so...

so if you dont who the source is how can you do the blame game? let the facts come out before spewing hatred out of the hate frothed mouthpiece

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:20
keep pointing out fake conspiracy theories. the paranoia of some Pakistani people is amazing, its amazing the country has not broken up into 4

Its been reported .

Now keep out of this thread. The only Pakistani showing paranoia is you.

Thats of course if you are Pakistani.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:21
keep pointing out fake conspiracy theories.
What fake conspiracy theories?

You obviously have not one iota's awareness of history if you think that the information that Mud posted would constitute a fake conspiracy theory.

It's going on in Iraq to create ethnic rifts (there are already reports of this with captured agents) and it's almost certainly taking place in Iran.

moumotta
20th September 2008, 21:22
The plot thickens.

Only because you guys refuse to see the obvious and keep trying to wrap it layer after layer in your pet theories.

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:23
Senior CIA officers were target of Islamabad blast

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18006

Islamabad, Sat, 20 Sep 2008 ANI

Islamabad, Sept 20 (ANI): Several senior officers of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) who are reported to be currently visiting Islamabad were the target of the blast at the Marriott Hotel which took place here tonight.


Well placed sources said that Marriott Hotel is usual hotel choice of the US officials and it seems that militants tipped off that certain high level US intelligence officers were currently staying at the hotel.

While no confirmation was available but Pakistan sources said it was clear that the explosion was aimed at specific targets based on a tip off.

At least twenty people were killed, and scores others seriously injured, when an explosives laden truck rammed into Marriott Hotel here today.


Over 50 people have been admitted in the local hospitals.


The powerful explosion caused fire in many parts of the hotel besides damaging the buildings around the hotel. (ANI)

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:24
Blast rocks capital, foreigners among 40 dead

http://www.brecorder.com/

ISLAMABAD (updated on: September 20, 2008, 20:47 PST): At least 40 people were killed on Saturday in a suspected suicide car bomb attack on the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, the city's police chief reported.

"A car laden with explosives rammed the gate at the Marriott and so far we have brought out 40 dead bodies, but the number could well be higher," police chief Asghar Raza Gardazi said.

The hotel was badly damaged and caught fire after the blast, which destroyed dozens of cars outside and shattered windows and damaged buildings hundreds of metres (yards) away.

Hours before the blast President Asif Ali Zardari, making his first address to parliament, several hundred metres to the east of the hotel, said terrorism had to be rooted out.

Police at the scene said 20 bodies had been taken away and people were still trapped inside. A crane was brought in to try to get people out.

Fire began in at least two places in the building and spread to other parts of the 290-room hotel, located at the foot of the Margalla hills in the city centre.

There was a large crater in the road by the hotel's heavy security barriers. The street was littered with debris and broken branches from roadside trees and acrid smoke drifted in the air.

The blast brought down the ceiling in a banquet room where there were about 200 to 300 people at a meal to break the fast during the holy month of Ramazan,

Imtiaz Gul, a journalist, was among them.

"We just ran for cover, I could see a lot of injured people lying around me," Gul said.

The hotel, popular with foreigners, has been bombed twice before but the Saturday evening blast was the most serious in the capital since the country joined the US-led campaign against militancy in late 2001.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:24
Senior CIA officers were target of Islamabad blast

http://www.newstrackindia.com/newsdetails/18006

Islamabad, Sat, 20 Sep 2008 ANI

Islamabad, Sept 20 (ANI): Several senior officers of Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) who are reported to be currently visiting Islamabad were the target of the blast at the Marriott Hotel which took place here tonight.


Well placed sources said that Marriott Hotel is usual hotel choice of the US officials and it seems that militants tipped off that certain high level US intelligence officers were currently staying at the hotel.

While no confirmation was available but Pakistan sources said it was clear that the explosion was aimed at specific targets based on a tip off.

At least twenty people were killed, and scores others seriously injured, when an explosives laden truck rammed into Marriott Hotel here today.


Over 50 people have been admitted in the local hospitals.


The powerful explosion caused fire in many parts of the hotel besides damaging the buildings around the hotel. (ANI)

I've never even heard of this indian news source. something interesting. Why would the Americans target thier OWN CIA SENIOR OPERATIVES WHO YOU SAY ARE INVOLVED. rules out America doesnt it.

still think its an absurd made up story

darkmoon459
20th September 2008, 21:25
Inaillahi wainaillahi rajioun, Condolences to all who lost their lives except for those who carried out this atrocity, hope they all burn in hell no matter who they are .

Hash
20th September 2008, 21:25
**** the taliban

DM
20th September 2008, 21:27
google is an American company which provides thier search data to the US intelligence, will you now stop using it? I thought so...
Your perception of how google's engine works is quite badly flawed.




spewing hatred out of the hate frothed mouthpiece
Hate frothed mouthpiece? You're saying it as if it's something to be ashamed of. I absolutely hate anyone that would blow themselves up and kill civilians, I also hate anyone that might be providing the support to do so and has an extensive track record for it.

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:28
I've never even heard of this indian news source. something interesting. Why would the Americans target thier OWN CIA SENIOR OPERATIVES WHO YOU SAY ARE INVOLVED. rules out America doesnt it.

still think its an absurd made up story

Read the story carefully

A tip off to the militants.

I havent mentioned anything about Americans being behind it.

dblock
20th September 2008, 21:28
Inaillahi wainaillahi rajioun, Condolences to all who lost their lives except for those who carried out this atrocity, hope they all burn in hell no matter who they are .

Indeed thoughts should be with those that lost their lives, the political point scoring can come afterwards.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:30
Your perception of how google's engine works is quite badly flawed.



Hate frothed mouthpiece? You're saying it as if it's something to be ashamed of. I absolutely hate anyone that would blow themselves up and kill civilians, I also hate anyone that might be providing the support to do so and has an extensive track record for it.

and you know how it works? please inform me. thank you

It is shameful that you accuse some nation or group before any facts have come out after a complete investigation.

Did you get ****** off when American media showed an incorrect video of Palestinians dancing in the street when infact that video was 4 months before sep 11? similiarly it is absurd to come to conclusions

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:30
Read the story carefully Idiot.

A tip off to the militants.

I havent mentioned anything about Americans being behind it.

whats with you calling me an idiot just because i dont believe your skewed views

Jeevs
20th September 2008, 21:30
This is horrible. My condolences to the bereaved and indeed the whole of Pakistan.

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 21:31
THis is a red zone, Red alert was declared in Islamabad since yesterday coz zardari was addressing the parliament, and a lot of ambassadors were in the city to listen to the address.

Now, here are my questions. What the hell is Rehman malik led security agencies doing? The biggest suicide blast in the history of the country, in a red zone, during red alert. Shameful for the govt. THis is teh safest area in the country. IF this guy has any shame, he would resign (Rehman Malik that is).

As for the Taliban, yes they are bad people, but they are jst a tip of the iceberg. They are being funded by US and India. Everyone knows that, the security agencies know that, and yet, they still cant do anything. Everyone blames everything on the Taliban in a second, and that's the problem. There are other agencies operating in pakistan as well. SO why are they being ignored? Just sad and shameful

Hash
20th September 2008, 21:31
Every Taliban supporter should die of cancer

Every Taliban should die of cancer


Please let that happen the ********

DM
20th September 2008, 21:33
It's early days yet, but whatever information we'll see in the media, there's always a lot more going on behind the scenes - any student of history worth his weight will tell you the same.

It's utterly myopic and not at all constructive to focus all of the hatred towards the brainwashed guy that kills himself along with civilians.

It would change my analysis of the situation if it turns out that they were targeting intelligence services. Let's see.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:33
THis is a red zone, Red alert was declared in Islamabad since yesterday coz zardari was addressing the parliament, and a lot of ambassadors were in the city to listen to the address.

Now, here are my questions. What the hell is Rehman malik led security agencies doing? The biggest suicide blast in the history of the country, in a red zone, during red alert. Shameful for the govt. THis is teh safest area in the country. IF this guy has any shame, he would resign (Rehman Malik that is).

As for the Taliban, yes they are bad people, but they are jst a tip of the iceberg. They are being funded by US and India. Everyone knows that, the security agencies know that, and yet, they still cant do anything. Just sad and shameful

US kill Taliban
US go after Taliban in Pakistan
US support Taliban

1 and 2 dont agree with 3

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 21:36
Every Taliban supporter should die of cancer

Every Taliban should die of cancer


Please let that happen the ********

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto!

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 21:37
US kill Taliban
US go after Taliban in Pakistan
US support Taliban

1 and 2 dont agree with 3
yaar its just a game. A militant hideout was destroyed sometime back, and the radio equipment found there was very advanced, and it was clear that it was supplied by a western country (Read the US).

The army told the US military in afghanistan that they were sure Baitullah MAshud was in location X, so they should send a predator plane to take him out. But no action was taken.

Dude, whoever thinks US is not funding militants in pakistna should think again

DM
20th September 2008, 21:38
It is shameful that you accuse some nation or group before any facts have come out after a complete investigation.
No it's not. I'm merely stating that a government with such an extensive track record for dirty, completely unscrupulous foreign operations should automatically be one of those implicated, one of the suspects.

It's shameful not to mention quite profoundly incompetent not to.

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:40
Blast rocks capital, seven foreigners among 47 dead

http://www.brecorder.com/

ISLAMABAD (updated on: September 20, 2008, 21:01 PST): At least 47 people including seven foreigners were killed and dozens injured on Saturday in a suspected suicide car bomb attack on the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad, Aaj TV reported.

"A car laden with explosives rammed the gate at the Marriott and so far we have brought out 40 dead bodies, but the number could well be higher," police chief Asghar Raza Gardazi told Aaj TV.

The hotel was badly damaged and caught fire after the blast, which destroyed dozens of cars outside and shattered windows and damaged buildings hundreds of metres (yards) away.

Police at the scene said 20 bodies had been taken away and people were still trapped inside. A crane was brought in to try to get people out.

Fire began in at least two places in the building and spread to other parts of the 290-room hotel, located at the foot of the Margalla hills in the city centre.

There was a large crater in the road by the hotel's heavy security barriers. The street was littered with debris and broken branches from roadside trees and acrid smoke drifted in the air.

The blast brought down the ceiling in a banquet room where there were about 200 to 300 people at a meal to break the fast during the holy month of Ramazan,

Imtiaz Gul, a journalist, was among them.

"We just ran for cover, I could see a lot of injured people lying around me," Gul said.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:40
No it's not. I'm merely stating that a government with such an extensive track record for dirty, completely unscrupulous foreign operations should automatically be one of those implicated, one of the suspects.

It's shameful not to mention quite profoundly incompetent not to.


maybe you have not been following history but suicide bombings have killed more Americans than Pakistanis

DM
20th September 2008, 21:41
maybe you have not been following history but suicide bombings have killed more Americans than Pakistanis
You have got to be kidding.

Jeevs
20th September 2008, 21:41
THis is a red zone, Red alert was declared in Islamabad since yesterday coz zardari was addressing the parliament, and a lot of ambassadors were in the city to listen to the address.

Now, here are my questions. What the hell is Rehman malik led security agencies doing? The biggest suicide blast in the history of the country, in a red zone, during red alert. Shameful for the govt. THis is teh safest area in the country. IF this guy has any shame, he would resign (Rehman Malik that is).

As for the Taliban, yes they are bad people, but they are jst a tip of the iceberg. They are being funded by US and India. Everyone knows that, the security agencies know that, and yet, they still cant do anything. Everyone blames everything on the Taliban in a second, and that's the problem. There are other agencies operating in pakistan as well. SO why are they being ignored? Just sad and shameful

umm.... wasn't Taliban the folks that let the hijacked Indian plane land in Kabul and allowed the hostage swap. Hasn't Taliban repeatedly killed and threatend Indians in Afghanistan, especially those working on road projects.. I don't necessarily think the Indian dirty tricks department is pure but surely they are not so stupid...

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 21:42
Everyone knows the taliban are being funded by outside influences such as US and other certain countries.

Its in the US interest that the carnage continues so that there can be more and more instability and chaos in Pakistan! More chaos = easier targets = easier way to take out Pakistan's nuclear capabilities!

Dont you think the US dont know about the growing resentment of them and support of the Taliban in the tribal areas? Wouldn't they want to stop missile attacks and all other operations if they really wanted to create mass support against taliban and beat those *&^*&**?!

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:42
I'd say this attack is more Al Qaeda than Taliban.

Course both are literally one these days.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:43
Everyone knows the taliban are being funded by outside influences such as US and other certain countries.

Its in the US interest that the carnage continues so that there can be more and more instability and chaos in Pakistan! More chaos = easier targets = easier way to take out Pakistan's nuclear capabilities!

Dont you think the US dont know about the growing resentment of them and support of the Taliban in the tribal areas? Wouldn't they want to stop missile attacks and all other operations if they really wanted to create mass support against taliban and beat those *&^*&**?!
You are absolutely right Mohsin, great post.

Sharuk take note.

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 21:43
umm.... wasn't Taliban the folks that let the hijacked Indian plane land in Kabul and allowed the hostage swap. Hasn't Taliban repeatedly killed and threatend Indians in Afghanistan, especially those working on road projects.. I don't necessarily think the Indian dirty tricks department is pure but surely they are not so stupid...

They have also done the same to Iranians but that doesn't mean they've stopped funding taliban.
Its politics...for a couple of lives the long term aims are well worth it for most governments around the world, what ever the aim

W63L35
20th September 2008, 21:43
Inaillahi wainaillahi rajioun
May Allah award janat to the innocent people who died and give sabar to the relative who are left to mourn their lives forever.

As far as the bombers are concerned, I hope they burn in hell for ever!

Just called my nephew in Islamabad and he told me that him and his friends had done at least 3-4 Iftars at Marriot this month and they always sat close to the spot where the truck actually hit! They were lucky that the he wasn't there today.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:44
You have got to be kidding.

check it.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:45
Ameen

moumotta
20th September 2008, 21:45
I'd say this attack is more Al Qaeda than Taliban.

Course both are literally one these days.

You have me totally lost now.

India and US are supporting Taliban and Al Qaeda. Pakistan is the poor victim.

Have I been transported to a different parallel universe.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:47
check it.
You're digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole and undermining your credibility. Just look at today's bombing for example.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:47
Everyone knows the taliban are being funded by outside influences such as US and other certain countries.

Its in the US interest that the carnage continues so that there can be more and more instability and chaos in Pakistan! More chaos = easier targets = easier way to take out Pakistan's nuclear capabilities!

Dont you think the US dont know about the growing resentment of them and support of the Taliban in the tribal areas? Wouldn't they want to stop missile attacks and all other operations if they really wanted to create mass support against taliban and beat those *&^*&**?!

so wait. the Taliban's enemies in afghanistan were funded by Americans and all of a sudden after 9/11 that statement is changed to Taliban being funded.

So Americans, Canadians and British have died killing Taliban who they fund? The Americans cross the border to kill the very Taliban they support?

Muddaser
20th September 2008, 21:47
You have me totally lost now.

India and US are supporting Taliban and Al Qaeda. Pakistan is the poor victim.

Have I been transported to a different parallel universe.

Well read the thread before posting.

I havent mentioned anything about India or US involvement.

This is entirely Pakistani. I'd say rogue elements from the ISI are behind the tip off.

Pakistan is a victim as much as India these days.

sharuk
20th September 2008, 21:47
You're digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole and undermining your credibility. Just look at today's bombing for example.
the numbers speak for themselves, more Americans have been killed than Pakistani's when it comes to suicide bombings

Jeevs
20th September 2008, 21:48
They have also done the same to Iranians but that doesn't mean they've stopped funding taliban.
Its politics...for a couple of lives the long term aims are well worth it for most governments around the world, what ever the aim

Look if you and some others have made up your mind that India is behind Taliban who are behind the blast then I can't change your opinion. It is human tendency to find a solution to a problem that is complex and not amenable to answers. If your answer to this problem is India then I will let you feel better for having found the answer.

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 21:51
Getting their hands on pakistan's nukes is much more important for them than a few American lives. Now please, enough with these simpleton and naive posts.

ANd how did you determine that more american lives have been lost in pakistan than pakistani lives?

moumotta
20th September 2008, 21:51
Well read the thread before posting.

I havent mentioned anything about India or US involvement.

This is entirely Pakistani. I'd say rogue elements from the ISI are behind the tip off.

Pakistan is a victim as much as India these days.

My apologies. Got mixed up.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:52
the numbers speak for themselves, more Americans have been killed than Pakistani's when it comes to suicide bombings
We're not talking about everywhere in the world, we're talking about suicide bombs in Pakistan because we're arguing about American involvement in Pakistan, you are way, way off the mark it's unreal.

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 21:53
Look if you and some others have made up your mind that India is behind Taliban who are behind the blast then I can't change your opinion. It is human tendency to find a solution to a problem that is complex and not amenable to answers. If your answer to this problem is India then I will let you feel better for having found the answer.

Jeeves, dont back your country just coz its ur country. I know ISI is behind a lot of terrorist activities in India, And RAW does the same in Pakistan. Learn to admit things instead of closing ur eyes just coz your own countey in involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone knows who is behind the Baloch separtists. Like I said, ISI does things in India, and RAW does things in Pakistan.

dblock
20th September 2008, 21:54
You have me totally lost now.

India and US are supporting Taliban and Al Qaeda. Pakistan is the poor victim.

Have I been transported to a different parallel universe.

I don't think that was anywhere close to what was implied.

DM
20th September 2008, 21:55
Like I said, ISI does things in India, and RAW does things in Pakistan.
Exactly, anyone who doesn't believe that is actively blinding themselves.

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 21:56
Look if you and some others have made up your mind that India is behind Taliban who are behind the blast then I can't change your opinion. It is human tendency to find a solution to a problem that is complex and not amenable to answers. If your answer to this problem is India then I will let you feel better for having found the answer.

Look, i find answers like this just try to dodge the argument.
Also, are you going to say that India are not involved at all? They are funding Baloch separatists or do you not agree with this?

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 21:57
Exactly, anyone who doesn't believe that is actively blinding themselves.

yaar DM, the problem is that people need to differentiate between patriotism and truth. Unfortunately, in such instances, both get mixed up for some people

moumotta
20th September 2008, 21:57
Jeeves, dont back your country just coz its ur country. I know ISI is behind a lot of terrorist activities in India, And RAW does the same in Pakistan. Learn to admit things instead of closing ur eyes just coz your own countey in involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone knows who is behind the Baloch separtists. Like I said, ISI does things in India, and RAW does things in Pakistan.

You are doing exactly what you blame him of. Are there no ISI created organisations in Pakistan who have now turned against the country.

Punisher
20th September 2008, 21:58
umm.... wasn't Taliban the folks that let the hijacked Indian plane land in Kabul and allowed the hostage swap. Hasn't Taliban repeatedly killed and threatend Indians in Afghanistan, especially those working on road projects.. I don't necessarily think the Indian dirty tricks department is pure but surely they are not so stupid...

Well about the hijacked Indian plane, that was'nt Taliban, it was actually done by the brother of the leader of a terrorist organisation called Jaish-e-Mohammad.

Staying on the topic I would like to express my condolences to all those who lost their lives.

Jeevs
20th September 2008, 21:59
Jeeves, dont back your country just coz its ur country. I know ISI is behind a lot of terrorist activities in India, And RAW does the same in Pakistan. Learn to admit things instead of closing ur eyes just coz your own countey in involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone knows who is behind the Baloch separtists. Like I said, ISI does things in India, and RAW does things in Pakistan.

Now we are mixing Baloch separatists with Taliban...

Like I said in my original post,I do not have any illusions of the RAW being pure but I do find it hard to believe that they are so stupid that they will fund Taliban, the same guys who are killing Indians in Afghanistan..

DM
20th September 2008, 22:00
yaar DM, the problem is that people need to differentiate between patriotism and truth. Unfortunately, in such instances, both get mixed up for some people
Totally agreed. Much like fundamentalism blinds people, so does patriotism.

dblock
20th September 2008, 22:02
Jeeves, dont back your country just coz its ur country. I know ISI is behind a lot of terrorist activities in India, And RAW does the same in Pakistan. Learn to admit things instead of closing ur eyes just coz your own countey in involved. Everyone, and I mean everyone knows who is behind the Baloch separtists. Like I said, ISI does things in India, and RAW does things in Pakistan.

I think most people are unaware of what their countries intelligence agencies are up to (an obvious point perhaps) but more to the point it would be quite alarming for most citizens I presume.

I am convinced that Pakistan ISI is up to no good in other countries, it would take a lot of solid arguments to convince me RAW were not playing a similar game (although I would imagine to a lesser degree), I mean they did sell chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein.

But importantly this just doesn't mean blaming foreign countries/organizations at will when there is an attack, certain responsiblity must be taken by all sides to prevent attacks likes these from occurring. How this attack could be conducted with such high security must be a real worry.

DM
20th September 2008, 22:02
I should say extremism, not fundamentalism. But I'm not going to edit the post again as I don't like the "last edited by" message, makes people seem disingenuous :P

Jeevs
20th September 2008, 22:03
[QUOTE=Punisher]Well about the hijacked Indian plane, that was'nt Taliban, it was actually done by the brother of the leader of a terrorist organisation called Jaish-e-Mohammad.
QUOTE]

True.. but remember Pakistan refused permission to land the plane and Dubai asked the hijakers to get the hell out immediately. Taliban not only let the plane land, they also let the swapped leader of terrorist organisation go free. Couldn't they have detained him?

Anyways, like you said, lets stay on the topic.

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 22:04
How this attack could be conducted with such high security must be a real worry.

Which brings up ISI support worries


I should say extremism, not fundamentalism. But I'm not going to edit the post again as I don't like the "last edited by" message, makes people seem disingenuous :P

:))):)))

Legendary_Sage
20th September 2008, 22:04
Ina lilahe wa ina ilaihe rajioun
May the Poor souls rest in peace.

dblock
20th September 2008, 22:05
I should say extremism, not fundamentalism. But I'm not going to edit the post again as I don't like the "last edited by" message, makes people seem disingenuous :P

You can give a reason for editing a post, most people will understand.

Jeevs
20th September 2008, 22:07
I think most people are unaware of what their countries intelligence agencies are up to (an obvious point perhaps) but more to the point it would be quite alarming for most citizens I presume.

I am convinced that Pakistan ISI is up to no good in other countries, it would take a lot of solid arguments to convince me RAW were not playing a similar game (although I would imagine to a lesser degree), I mean they did sell chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein.

But importantly this just doesn't mean blaming foreign countries/organizations at will when there is an attack, certain responsiblity must be taken by all sides to prevent attacks likes these from occurring. How this attack could be conducted with such high security must be a real worry.

Cannot and will not deny it

Jeevs
20th September 2008, 22:09
Look, i find answers like this just try to dodge the argument.Also, are you going to say that India are not involved at all? They are funding Baloch separatists or do you not agree with this?

Sorry didn't read any argument, just an assertion.

pjkilla
20th September 2008, 22:09
Every Taliban supporter should die of cancer

Every Taliban should die of cancer


Please let that happen the ********

that death would be too slow, it should be a week of torture til death

RIP to all that lost their lives, its a shame in the kind of world we live in today, you can't go anywhere knowing whether you'll return home

a lot of people seem to be blaming India, any proof?

kablooee87
20th September 2008, 22:16
Heard the news on PP. Can't seem to think about anything else since.

Rest in Peace to the victims.

12thMan
20th September 2008, 22:17
GEO saying a small car broke the second security barrier. A man came out of the car and yelled "jis ko bhagna hey bhag jaye". The guy got in the car and left. Then a truck came that hit some boulder (security barrier), a fire started in the truck and then there was an explosion.

One eye witness saying most of the dead were not inside the hotel

in_cutter
20th September 2008, 22:20
It is shameful that you accuse some nation or group before any facts have come out after a complete investigation.

Does'nt America do the same? Recently Indian's blamed Pak for delhi blasts without any facts!

filosofee
20th September 2008, 22:25
I don't understand how that truck was not stopped before it reached the gates of the Marriott, I'm sure I've brunched at this hotel with my younger sister.

When corrupt Islamabadi policemen stop you enroute to the airport for no better reason than to rip you off, you have to pay them or miss your flight, where the heck are these very same policeman in such times? It's not as if this hotel is/was situated in G, H or I district, for heaven's sake.

Cryin Out Loud
20th September 2008, 22:25
RIP. My condolences to the people in Pakistan. This is terrible.

I cannot speak for anyone else. But when this happened in India a few weeks ago, I did not blame the people/ government or intelligence agencies of Pakistan.

It is a fact that when trouble happens in your country, regardless of who instigates it, the reasons always lie in in your country's weaknesses. The answers as well as the long term solutions always come from within.

12thMan
20th September 2008, 22:27
Islamabad's Inspector General (IG) saying the explosives look similar to the one used in Danish Embassy bombing few months ago

india_fan
20th September 2008, 22:31
This is ridiculous! Why don't the suicide bombers have a one-on-one talk with the Government (this applies to suicide bombers in India and Pak) and solve the fcking matter. Why involve innocent souls and kill them ? Do they really think (both) the government will really "shake" and do something about it ? Well the answer is .... NO! They will 'condolence' the bomb blasts victims' family and go back to their mansion's pool and relax.

Enough ranting.... RIP, those who didn't deserve to die

Hash
20th September 2008, 22:32
that death would be too slow, it should be a week of torture til death

RIP to all that lost their lives, its a shame in the kind of world we live in today, you can't go anywhere knowing whether you'll return home

a lot of people seem to be blaming India, any proof?

Agree.....on second thoughts cancer would be too slow. We need them abliterated ASAP.

I've been to the Marriot several times....actually I was there just a week ago. The guards outside are 'yaars' of mine....but I doubt they have made it through this.

There are two security barriers. There is one steel barrier where cars are sniffed by dogs for explosives and metal detected by guards. People entering on foot are also metal detected. There is then a second security barrier 25 feet further up by the entrance of the hotel where you are once again metal detected and have to put your bags through an x-ray machine.

The truck rammed into the steel barrier (25 feet from the hotel) and exploded before the dogs or the guards could check it. The exlosion was very powerful....it shook windows in F11!

**** the Taliban.

filosofee
20th September 2008, 22:40
Hash, good to read you, hope you're well. Yes, flippin heck, my younger sister lived in F11, have loads of relatives closer, some in F10 near Faisal masjid, and others even closer to the centre. It's awful but each bomb is, no matter where it goes off, India, Yemen, Pakistan .....

PlanetPakistan
20th September 2008, 22:47
RIP...
and condolence to the families of the MANY victims!

What a terrible terrible news to wake up to

bdchamp20
20th September 2008, 22:56
Another tragedy hits Pakistan!

RIP and my condolences to all the victims and their families.

Makes me wonder is Pakistan really safe for international cricket when not even a heavily protected 5 star hotel which hosts VIP international guests is not immune from these types of attacks? Plus I hear that the hotel is very near the PM and Presidential residences.

Oxy
20th September 2008, 22:57
Just got off he phone to my relatives in Isbd.

One of them works for Intelligence Bureau...he was phoning me from the hospitals where the dead / injured are - he was shaken up, telling me of corpses without heads and limbs.

He's not one for emotion - but its the worst scenes he's ever seen.

Unofficailly, he and his colleagues are pointing fingers at America.....

sunny92
20th September 2008, 22:57
You can put all the secuirty barriers you want but how can you stop a brain washed maniac, who doesnt have a shred of humanity left in him, from driving a vehicle full of explosives in to buildings?

Billy
20th September 2008, 23:02
Unofficailly, he and his colleagues are pointing fingers at America.....

Why would America bomb a Marrott hotel?

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:02
Just got off he phone to my relatives in Isbd.

One of them works for Intelligence Bureau...he was phoning me from the hospitals where the dead / injured are - he was shaken up, telling me of corpses without heads and limbs.

He's not one for emotion - but its the worst scenes he's ever seen.

Unofficailly, he and his colleagues are pointing fingers at America.....


I don't get it, Oxy, why would the US want to target an Islamabadi hotel? Unless you're arguing they're sending a signal to Zardari to shut up re his "Pakistan would not tolerate any infringement of its territory in the name of the fight against militants. " comment?

Oxy
20th September 2008, 23:05
^^^

I'm not arguing anything - neither am I in a postion to identify who might have done this.

Just relating the discussion I had about 10 mins ago with a relative who has spent 20+ years in the Intelligence Bureau, Isbd.

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:07
^^^

I'm not arguing anything - neither am I in a postion to identify who might have done this.

Just relating the discussion I had about 10 mins ago with a relative who has spent 20+ years in the Intelligence Bureau, Isbd.


Sorry, not you, the person you spoke with pointing fingers, could it be that he feels the US may have caused this to shut up Zardari?

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 23:08
I don't get it, Oxy, why would the US want to target an Islamabadi hotel? Unless you're arguing they're sending a signal to Zardari to shut up re his "Pakistan would not tolerate any infringement of its territory in the name of the fight against militants. " comment?

Many reasons, the main one being the pakistan nukes. THe country becomes unstable, the US comes with the argument of pakistani nukes falling into the wrong hands, pressure mounts on us to roll back our nuclear program.

Look, it is an open report that appeared in NY times (I think) that by 2015, the US think tank wants pakistan breaking up. Remember, with pakistan and Iran out of the way, this region belongs completely to the US, with China the only remaining threat.

PlanetPakistan
20th September 2008, 23:09
Just got off he phone to my relatives in Isbd.

One of them works for Intelligence Bureau...he was phoning me from the hospitals where the dead / injured are - he was shaken up, telling me of corpses without heads and limbs.

He's not one for emotion - but its the worst scenes he's ever seen.

Unofficailly, he and his colleagues are pointing fingers at America.....
Who knows who did it!
PAK has countless enemies both in and out of Pakistan!

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 23:11
By the way filosofee, I like your style of thinking, you dont completely rule out things, you ask questions as to why something is/is not possible. Shows an open mind.

12thMan
20th September 2008, 23:11
Sherry Rehman saying Pakistan will remain vigilant against terrorism and we will not step back. She also mentioned the elected democratic President of Paksitan Zardari did a speech in Parliment today.

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 23:11
Sorry, not you, the person you spoke with pointing fingers, could it be that he feels the US may have caused this to shut up Zardari?

I doubt it's related to anything he said today as that would need very very quick planning.

They would do it to create more chaos in Pakistan, try and show the world the terrorist threat in Pakistan as well as trying to show the world how un-safe Pakistan is and that they need american assitance (this attack a couple of days after Pakistan gave into american pressure to let them send dozens and dozens of US soldiers into Peshawar to 'help' and 'train' Pakistani troops, though i think its not going to be in Peshawar but rather some undisclosed location)

the_best
20th September 2008, 23:15
I have my sympathy to the innocent victims and their families. Please stop the blame game. It is the time of mourning not blaming. I heard in BBC, one of the minister is saying it is Pakistan's 9/11 and I think probably he is right. In the hindsight may be ACB was correct. If it can be happened in a green zone during red alert than I do not know whether you give a presidential security or not you would feel safe. On the other thing CIA many times killed their own people; one example is the killing of US ambassador with General Zia.

Pakwatan
20th September 2008, 23:17
just watched the BBC World News and watching ATN ARY show about the suicide blast. May they all rest in peace. This is not looking good.

There was someone said, it was end of Pakistan.

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:17
By the way filosofee, I like your style of thinking, you dont completely rule out things, you ask questions as to why something is/is not possible. Shows an open mind.


Thank you WA, but I'm more in 'shocked mind' mode - deeply saddened about the plight of the country of my birth (and no, I am neither ruling out my 'Balochi brethren' in this crime).

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:20
I have my sympathy to the innocent victims and their families. Please stop the blame game. It is the time of mourning not blaming. I heard in BBC, one of the minister is saying it is Pakistan's 9/11 and I think probably he is right. In the hindsight may be ACB was correct. If it can be happened in a green zone during red alert than I do not know whether you give a presidential security or not you would feel safe. On the other thing CIA many times killed their own people; one example is the killing of US ambassador with General Zia.


I think, if the US had wanted, they could easily have got to Zardari. Only a feeling, but it's contempt against Pakistan's collusion with the US in this oxymoronic war on terror that seeks to increase terror in daily battle that is now the life of ordinary Pak folk.

W63L35
20th September 2008, 23:21
http://i37.tinypic.com/1z18gea.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/1548vfd.jpg

Size of the crater is mind boggling.

Bublu Bhuyan
20th September 2008, 23:23
Size of the crater is mind boggling.
Gosh, that looks like a natural crater, and not the one formed cuz of the explosion. This truly must have been a mind boggling explosion.

Mohsin
20th September 2008, 23:25
I heard on either BBC, Sky or Al Jazeera (cant remember) that there was a gas leak in the hotel which amplified the explosion...

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 23:25
I would put my money on the US being behind this. Mullen came to pakistan, the army is not for the americans striking inside pakistan's borders.

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:26
This is what I don't understand, that truck must have been large, and, laden with tons of explosives, how'd it get into Islamabad's central zone without being checked? How many times have people here been stopped by the police when driving in?

Anyone remember when Downing Street was targeted by the IRA in the early 90s, when John Major was in situ? Could a van get through Whitehall thereafter?

madaboutlfc
20th September 2008, 23:26
Another tragedy hits Pakistan!

RIP and my condolences to all the victims and their families.

Makes me wonder is Pakistan really safe for international cricket when not even a heavily protected 5 star hotel which hosts VIP international guests is not immune from these types of attacks? Plus I hear that the hotel is very near the PM and Presidential residences.
who cares about cricket

Kashif
20th September 2008, 23:28
I pray for the deceased and all those affected. Never believed such an act could happen in Islamabad. Security in Pakistan needs to be further toughened up but unfortunately there is no safeguard mechanism from suicide bombers or remote detonated bombs.

mumtaz
20th September 2008, 23:28
It is really so so sad that I don't know what to say. I mean, surely now the government needs to stop fighting America's war in the tribal regions. As the past year has shown, there is no way that they would be able to stop these suicide bombers in the future. These people, whoever they were, were not hurting Pakistan before we pushed in our army to fight them on America's behest and to top it off, we probably have hurt more non-combatants in the name of collateral damage than actual Taliban/Al-Qaeda operatives.

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:29
Reuters reporting 40 killed:


http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSLK19484520080920


Those pictures suggest death toll may be very high, consider the hotel workforce alone must be more than 40. Awful, really awful.

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:31
It is really so so sad that I don't know what to say. I mean, surely now the government needs to stop fighting America's war in the tribal regions. As the past year has shown, there is no way that they would be able to stop these suicide bombers in the future. These people, whoever they were, were not hurting Pakistan before we pushed in our army to fight them on America's behest and to top it off, we probably have hurt more non-combatants in the name of collateral damage than actual Taliban/Al-Qaeda operatives.


Exactly, let McCain Multiple Homes and Palin Pitbull find Osama (for they will win the next US election, the "Bradley Effect" will seal their victory).

KB
20th September 2008, 23:34
Terrible. I am deeply saddened.

Bublu Bhuyan
20th September 2008, 23:34
What do you think, will the West Indies tour Pakistan now ? I understand that right now it's insensitive to ask this, if I've offended anyone then I'm sorry.

Hash
20th September 2008, 23:35
This is what I don't understand, that truck must have been large, and, laden with tons of explosives, how'd it get into Islamabad's central zone without being checked? How many times have people here been stopped by the police when driving in?

Anyone remember when Downing Street was targeted by the IRA in the early 90s, when John Major was in situ? Could a van get through Whitehall thereafter?

I drive to the Marriot regularly from F11 and I've never actually been stopped. I've been stopped in Islamabad twice by the cops for a random search/check.

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 23:36
I think, if the US had wanted, they could easily have got to Zardari. Only a feeling, but it's contempt against Pakistan's collusion with the US in this oxymoronic war on terror that seeks to increase terror in daily battle that is now the life of ordinary Pak folk.

THe war is morornic coz the Taliban is just a face. You have to hit the root. They are being backed by foreign agencies. And let me assure you that our agencies know that, our govt. knows that but is scared of openly blaming the US. Unless we make some space between us and the US, we wil never win this battle, coz we are fighting alongside our worst enemy.

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:37
I drive to the Marriot regularly from F11 and I've never actually been stopped. I've been stopped in Islamabad twice by the cops for a random search/check.

Maybe they stop females more? Wouldn't surprise me.

dinakar
20th September 2008, 23:39
heartfelt condolence to the victims and their families..
just watched the report in tv. it's really a frightening scene :(

filosofee
20th September 2008, 23:40
THe war is morornic coz the Taliban is just a face. You have to hit the root. They are being backed by foreign agencies. And let me assure you that our agencies know that, our govt. knows that but is scared of openly blaming the US. Unless we make some space between us and the US, we wil never win this battle, coz we are fighting alongside our worst enemy.

Agree, let Mc-fundamentally strong-Cain and Palin-prevaricator deal with their 9/11 hang up.

dinakar
20th September 2008, 23:40
What do you think, will the West Indies tour Pakistan now ? I understand that right now it's insensitive to ask this, if I've offended anyone then I'm sorry.
not the right place and time to ask..

Legendary_Sage
20th September 2008, 23:41
Another sad day in history of Pakistan.
I am really depress at the moment.I worked in Evacuee trust for 2 years and that is just next to Marriott Hotel.I have fond memories of that place.
What upsets me is innocent people are always the one's who suffer the most.
May ALLAH grant peace and stability to Pakistan. Ameen.

Savak
20th September 2008, 23:46
Inillilahe wah inalilahe rajahoon

Sad day, we need to fight these people who kill innocent people. Enough is enough, its time for action.

Hash
20th September 2008, 23:47
Inillilahe wah inalilahe rajahoon

Sad day, we need to fight these people who kill innocent people. Enough is enough, its time for action.

No no

We must negotiate and talk with them! Since they are such reasonable people, aren't they! (says Nawaz Sharif)

waqar_ahmad
20th September 2008, 23:49
Agree, let Mc-fundamentally strong-Cain and Palin-prevaricator deal with their 9/11 hang up.

That wont happen, zardari-Malik, Haqqani are all US planted people (that's the kind of democracy you get after years of dictatorship). So dont expect them to go after US interests.

And the worst part is that we dont need to think hard on how to choke the US. Just cut the NATO supply line through our tribal region, and call back most of the soldiers from the pak-afghan border. Two steps, play these two cards. But dont expect this coward govt. to do anything

Hash
20th September 2008, 23:57
That wont happen, zardari-Malik, Haqqani are all US planted people (that's the kind of democracy you get after years of dictatorship). So dont expect them to go after US interests.

And the worst part is that we dont need to think hard on how to choke the US. Just cut the NATO supply line through our tribal region, and call back most of the soldiers from the pak-afghan border. Two steps, play these two cards. But dont expect this coward govt. to do anything

If the Americans continue violating our airspace and groundspace...this is what we should do.

1. Diplomacy (already tried). But try it for a bit longer.
2. Start fencing the Afghan border (we suggested this to combat illegal border crossing but America and Karzai said no)
3. Plant landmines along the Afghan border (with clear warnings and fences demarking the mined areas)
4. Cut NATO supply lines
5. Concentrate ALL our war on terror forces and resources into OUR war in Bajaur and Swat.

Monsee
20th September 2008, 23:58
Inillilahe wah inalilahe rajahoon

I wish this spilling of innocent blood stops all over the world, in the name of humanity...and may Allah destroy those responsible for this tragedy. May they rot in hell for eternity.

Ameen!

DHONI183
21st September 2008, 00:08
Extremely sad for this:(.........

May their souls rest in peace:9:......

speed_thrills
21st September 2008, 00:11
A massive explosion has devastated the Marriott hotel in the Pakistani capital Islamabad, killing many people.

Officials say they believe a suicide bomber set off a car bomb near the hotel.

Islamabad residents told the BBC what they saw and felt.

DIROME ANTHONY

I was driving towards the hotel for my dinner. And I was two seconds away from the blast. It was a huge explosion and the sky lit up like daylight. I saw one of the big trees flying over my car. When I opened my car door I saw a human hand right next to my car door. Thank god I'm safe. I feel sorry for those who lost their life.

HASSAN KHALID

I work in the Evacuee Trust building adjacent to the Marriott Hotel. I was in the office at that time. The force of the blast threw me off the seat, all windows in the building were broken and for a while it seemed as if an air strike had happened. Moving out I saw the Marriott building in flames and then I remember vaguely being shoved in a car by my security team and being rushed to the hospital. Luckily all of us present in the office at that time are safe.

MEHREEN KHALID

I live in the vicinity of the Marriott Hotel - at the time of the explosion, I, like the majority of the population, had just opened the fast observed during Ramadan. What happened next was one of the most strange experiences I've ever undergone - the rooms, walls, floor shook, as if a huge tremor was going through. The feeling was strangely reminiscent of the devastating earthquake we faced in October 2005. This was followed by a huge sound of a blast. It is completely tragic - I do hope Pakistan can stop this internal turmoil and the citizens can enjoy some peace and security.

BO

The blast is tremendous. We live over 2 kilometres away from the hotel and it still shook our windows. It sounded as if thunder had exploded right on top of our house. Now after an hour, smoke is filling the air and we can smell the burning debris from our porch. Just hope for the best.

ABDULLAH INAYAT

It was a huge and massive blast. My office is 15 kilometres away from the Marriot Hotel and we were having dinner and suddenly we heard a horrible noise. It was like an earthquake.

SAIRA RASHEED

I was a few sectors away from the Marriot. Nearly 22 kilometres away. The shocking part is that the blast was so intense that it shook the entire city and all of us came running out of the house thinking that it was just a few metres away.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7627319.stm

Hash
21st September 2008, 00:22
I can vouch for the above.

I was having my dinner at 8pm in front of the TV. I live in F11 which is a while away from the Marriot..and my windows shook. The first thought in my mind was 'bomb' but then I tried to convince myself that a gas canister or something had blown in the neighbouring apartment block. Sadly wasn't to be.

lollol
21st September 2008, 00:26
**** man, how could this happen....

I mean, such a big hotel should have more security. No way anyone would want to come to Pakistan right now

Luton Bad Boy
21st September 2008, 00:27
Distubring news and my thoughts are with those affected with this despicable act of terrorism....

I for one am sure this is not a 'muslim' terrorist, as which sane 'muslim' would even think about doing a blast during this blessed month....

May all the people that have passed rest in peace....

and when will this innocent bloodshed stop....

12thMan
21st September 2008, 00:34
**** man, how could this happen....

I mean, such a big hotel should have more security. No way anyone would want to come to Pakistan right nowIt seems like the truck was driving around in front of PM house. The whole security thing has to be investigated. Reports are not there yet but the owner Hashwani was saying that the security tried to stop the truck (or maybe they did heard something in news later). The truck could have got into the compound of the hotel.

Now the news about a small car before that came and a man got out and yelled "jis ko bhagna hai bhag jaye" and then truck came couple of minutes later is something. I hope the cameras caught something and tapes not destroyed

pjkilla
21st September 2008, 00:56
Another sad day in history of Pakistan.
I am really depress at the moment.I worked in Evacuee trust for 2 years and that is just next to Marriott Hotel.I have fond memories of that place.
What upsets me is innocent people are always the one's who suffer the most.
May ALLAH grant peace and stability to Pakistan. Ameen.

yup totally messed up

the end of the world is nigh

Saqlain_doosra
21st September 2008, 00:58
Inha lillah wan inha illhai rajioun

Pakistani goverment needs to take firm action and route these people. True muslim would not go round killing innocent people. These people need to be taken out quickly before they take more innocent lives. It doesn't matter if they are supported by external agencies or doing it on their own. At the end of the day these guys are killing civilians.

Hash
21st September 2008, 01:05
Inha lillah wan inha illhai rajioun

Pakistani goverment needs to take firm action and route these people. True muslim would not go round killing innocent people. These people need to be taken out quickly before they take more innocent lives. It doesn't matter if they are supported by external agencies or doing it on their own. At the end of the day these guys are killing civilians.

This.

MIG
21st September 2008, 01:08
Laila-ul-Qadar for some and a night of tragedy for others.

This is what Muslims do to another? Yes lets blame America for this but lets absolve extremists so that we can look superior - somehow.

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon

Ya Rab, We commend the souls of the innocents to your protection and pray for their Maghfirah -

Ya Rab - grant the shaheed a place in Jannat-al-Firdos and provide solace to their survivors.

Ya Rab, Ya Rab - Let the cloud of darkness lift off this nation of Muslims - tonight of all nights we ask for your mercy on the nation of Pakistan

Ameen.

12thMan
21st September 2008, 01:08
Zardari talking to nation now

OZGOD
21st September 2008, 01:09
Tragic news. May those who died rest in peace.

in_cutter
21st September 2008, 01:11
Devastating...RIP all the victims :-(

12thMan
21st September 2008, 01:12
great GEO was broadcasting Zardari address and they lost the feed or switched to blast news which won't have anything new

the truck had two people, security forces also fired on the truck and may have stopped it. These security forces had no chance, plus the ones that were at the hotel door, but I was looking at some coverage that security has incresed in Karachi and they didn't have much protection (like bullet proof jackets and helmets)

OZGOD
21st September 2008, 01:13
THe war is morornic coz the Taliban is just a face. You have to hit the root. They are being backed by foreign agencies. And let me assure you that our agencies know that, our govt. knows that but is scared of openly blaming the US. Unless we make some space between us and the US, we wil never win this battle, coz we are fighting alongside our worst enemy.

Not to start an argument in the face of tragedy, but this doesn't seem to make sense. There's no reason for the US to support the Taliban. That's a pretty big stretch.

Usman Chadda
21st September 2008, 01:14
Absolutely mind-boggling as to how this can be done during Ramadan! Sick, sadistic bunch of twits can only have the nerve to do something like this in this blessed months

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illaihi Raajiyun

May Allah have mercy on this nation

siddharth
21st September 2008, 01:14
Shocking . R I P .Can't believe it happened in a 5 star hotel.

OZGOD
21st September 2008, 01:15
http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2008/09/20/1221928523_1479/539w.jpg

MIG
21st September 2008, 01:15
I wish he would shut up and just say Fateha for the departed - there is nothing he can say what he likes - fact is that this genie cannot be contained.

We must show moral courage and tackle extremism wherever it strikes.

Let this be an eye opener for the Pakistani nation.

siddharth
21st September 2008, 01:16
Distubring news and my thoughts are with those affected with this despicable act of terrorism....

I for one am sure this is not a 'muslim' terrorist, as which sane 'muslim' would even think about doing a blast during this blessed month....

May all the people that have passed rest in peace....

and when will this innocent bloodshed stop....
True . May be a non muslim , a hindu or a christian .But who is a sane muslim ? Do u consider Taliban as sane muslims.

Saqlain_doosra
21st September 2008, 01:17
Laila-ul-Qadar for some and a night of tragedy for others.

This is what Muslims do to another? Yes lets blame America for this but lets absolve extremists so that we can look superior - somehow.

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon

Ya Rab, We commend the souls of the innocents to your protection and pray for their Maghfirah -

Ya Rab - grant the shaheed a place in Jannat-al-Firdos and provide solace to their survivors.

Ya Rab, Ya Rab - Let the cloud of darkness lift off this nation of Muslims - tonight of all nights we ask for your mercy on the nation of Pakistan

Ameen.

Ameen

Hash
21st September 2008, 01:25
1 US national confirmed dead.
6 Saudi nationals missing.

12thMan
21st September 2008, 01:28
It was a truck filled with dirt. There are a few that drive around here as there is construction going around. The perparators probably studied what they can use and which type of vehicle can get pass on this road
- some minister (musheer-e-dakhla.

Just saw some video on GEO (which might be security tape) and there were two gaurds at the gate. It was a regular swing fence gate which was open by a foot. One guard was standing on the gate's lower end and another one in the middle. A truck turns in and goes over the guard standing in the middle, the gate swings open and .... (probably blew up)

pjkilla
21st September 2008, 01:29
I for one am sure this is not a 'muslim' terrorist, as which sane 'muslim' would even think about doing a blast during this blessed month....


I guess everyone else is insane
These terrorists are capable of killing other Muslims just to get their message across and cause fear, why would they stop during Ramadan

12thMan
21st September 2008, 01:36
Zardari back on. Anthem going on. I think the last was his practice run (recording it) and GEO showed some of it

Hash
21st September 2008, 01:38
It was a truck filled with dirt. There are a few that drive around here as there is construction going around. The perparators probably studied what they can use and which type of vehicle can get pass on this road
- some minister (musheer-e-dakhla.

Just saw some video on GEO (which might be security tape) and there were two gaurds at the gate. It was a regular swing fence gate which was open by a foot. One guard was standing on the gate's lower end and another one in the middle. A truck turns in and goes over the guard standing in the middle, the gate swings open and .... (probably blew up)

That sounds like the blast in Lahore a few months ago. I remember seeing that.

I've been to the Marriot many times and the security is always tight....there is a steel barrier where your vehicle gets checked by sniffer dogs and they check your boot and the bottom of your car and then a gate which opens 25 feet from the hotel. There is then another check before entering the hotel. My guess is that the truck just rammed the steel barrier and exploded. Rehman Malik has said there was 1000kg of explosives used. I heard it in F11 and the windows of my flat shook. It was powerful enough to get the hotel.

mamoo gogo
21st September 2008, 01:41
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilaihi Raajeeon

lakha84
21st September 2008, 01:44
can this be linked with USA??

recently they are doing this in Pakistan a lot, bombarding places and now they have reached Islamabad too. pathetic to say the least.

i hope no one is dead.

ALLAH, WHERE ARE YOU.


how about start following whats in the quran and the sunnah of our belovedprophet PBUH and allah will help you from you except it the least

DM
21st September 2008, 01:45
Inha lillah wan inha illhai rajioun

Pakistani goverment needs to take firm action and route these people. True muslim would not go round killing innocent people. These people need to be taken out quickly before they take more innocent lives. It doesn't matter if they are supported by external agencies or doing it on their own. At the end of the day these guys are killing civilians.
It matters bro. Bucketing water out from a stream doesn't stop the flow from its source.

PlanetPakistan
21st September 2008, 01:46
That sounds like the blast in Lahore a few months ago. I remember seeing that.

I've been to the Marriot many times and the security is always tight....there is a steel barrier where your vehicle gets checked by sniffer dogs and they check your boot and the bottom of your car and then a gate which opens 25 feet from the hotel. There is then another check before entering the hotel. My guess is that the truck just rammed the steel barrier and exploded. Rehman Malik has said there was 1000kg of explosives used. I heard it in F11 and the windows of my flat shook. It was powerful enough to get the hotel.
yeah its exactly like that. They showed the animations of the 2 blasts and both were very similar.

Khabri420
21st September 2008, 01:49
very sad indeed. Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Elaihi Raajeeoon.

Hash
21st September 2008, 01:56
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/09/20/world/21islamabad.1-600.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2008/09/20/20080920-ISLAMABAD/25085520.JPG

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2008/09/20/20080920-ISLAMABAD/25085496.JPG

Bublu Bhuyan
21st September 2008, 01:57
http://im.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/20pak01.jpg
http://im.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/20pak02.jpg
http://im.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/20pak03.jpg
http://im.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/20pak04.jpg
http://im.rediff.com/news/2008/sep/20pak05.jpg

cricketrulez
21st September 2008, 01:59
My condolences.

These questions come to my mind...

It is important to know where the truck was weaponized.

- If in the tribal areas, it's a pretty long drive from there to the heart of Islamabad. One would not really lug around that much armed explosive for 100+ kilometers. Why was it never stopped at any check-point, why were its contents never examined?

- If the truck was armed in Islamabad, that's a hell of an infrastrucure the micreants has got there. 1 TON of high explosive was successfully concealed, moved around, assembled in the kill vehicle and armed in complete secrecy in a city fairly bristling with the intense security.

Fawad
21st September 2008, 02:02
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Elaihi Raajeeoon, condolences to the families of the victims.

May the perpetrators behind these attacks rot in hell.

Hash
21st September 2008, 02:14
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45036000/jpg/_45036599_injured226x282_afp.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45036000/jpg/_45036651_315e98dd-1be2-4320-9bfb-820c7bb066d9.jpg

filosofee
21st September 2008, 02:20
I just watched BBC News 24, a brief interview with a Chatham House expert on South East Asia effectively said that Zardari was promulgating rhetoric, that he was actually pro-US and that this blast was very likely down to US incursion into Pakistan's tribal areas.

A US captain says that American reaction to 9/11 was "overreaction":



"The response to 9/11 was a huge overreaction," he said. "There was a lot of displaced emotions that led to huge roundups of Muslims across the country".

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/09/18/former_soldier_questions_us_effort_on_terrorism/?page=2

Hash
21st September 2008, 02:22
http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2008/Sep/Week3/15103747.jpg

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2008/Sep/Week3/15103742.jpg

filosofee
21st September 2008, 02:30
Those pictures are wretched, or make you feel wretched.

And the Taleban promised this:



Last May, the top commander of the Pakistan Taleban, Baitullah Mahsud, had this to say when he spoke to the BBC: "We do not expect the new government to change anything. But we will fight it, every way we can and if we are not safe in our homes, neither will they be."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7627584.stm

bdchamp20
21st September 2008, 02:35
Bangladesh condemns Islamabad blasts

Sat, Sep 20th, 2008
Pranud Kumar

Dhaka, Sect 20 (bdnews24.com) - Foreign adviser Iftekhar Ahmed Chowdhury condemned the bomb blasts in Islamabad that killed at least 17 people on Saturday.

Chowdhury termed the attack a cowardly act of terrorism and said "such attack will bring no benefit for the perpetrators."

In his instant reaction, the adviser said: "The people of Bangladesh stand by the people and the government of Pakistan at this hour."

He expressed deep shock at the loss of innocent lives.

BDNews24

dblock
21st September 2008, 02:35
Please exercise caution and judgement when adding pictures. If something looks overly gruesome please add a link rather than the picture itself.

Just a polite note.

Hash
21st September 2008, 02:36
Sorry dblock.

I should have thought of that.

filosofee
21st September 2008, 02:43
And money is never far from the mind of Mr 10% Zardari:



Zardari argues that Pakistan cannot deal with the threat unless it is given financial help. “

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article4795153.ece

filosofee
21st September 2008, 02:45
"In the final analysis, the sold-out souls ..... will cause more damage to the US than the fictitious and non-existent enemies. These opportunists tell the warlords in the US want they want to hear. They promote their assumptions and lend them credibility. Instead of telling them the truth, all their advice to the US government is based on their self-interest, lies and deception. People, who are not loyal to their own people and their own county and faith, can never be faithful to the outsiders whose favours they consider vital for their self-promotion."



http://www.dictatorshipwatch.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=5948

MIG
21st September 2008, 02:47
Dua, Dua and Dua my friends.

Keep on praying for the souls of the departed.

Let the judgement and blame game come later.

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon

filosofee
21st September 2008, 02:52
With respect MIG, dua may not assist those that survive with horrendous injuries.

It is extremely annoying that Americans, I'm watching the news as I type, to say that it is time for the Pakistanis to stand up to the common enemy (common to US and Pakistan).

mnoman15
21st September 2008, 03:23
keep pointing out fake conspiracy theories. the paranoia of some Pakistani people is amazing, its amazing the country has not broken up into 4


Don't argue with this guy Sharuk, He is an Ahmedi and we all know what do they want. Leave him alone ...

12thMan
21st September 2008, 03:40
kick all the foreigners out. They don't care about Pakistan but want to make their own state. Also change the name of Pakistan to original name and not the name of 1953??? as some people use that too.

FCCO
21st September 2008, 04:09
May all the victims rest in peace.

The size of the explosion begs the question: How could anyone carry a truck laden with 1000kg of explosives without getting caught?

DM
21st September 2008, 04:20
Agreed with many of the posts above (thanks for the dictatorshipwatch site filo, hadn't seen it before).

Proximity to the the current extremist, corporate-serving US government will only ever get ugly.

Afghanistan and Iraq are in tatters. They have these sort of scenes, and much worse, on a regular basis, with just about zero video coverage, ground-zero images etc. Forget 9/11, 9/11 to them is a drop in the ocean.

Countries like Saudi, Guatemala, Egypt, several post-Soviet states have dictatorships currently supported by the US govt (contrary to their benevolent Iraqi rhetoric). Many countries in the recent past have had US-supported brutal dictatorships overthrown by popular resistance eg Romania, Phillipines, Indonesia, Chile etc.

And it's not only security. The intertwined UK market is swirling in the vortex of the doomed US economy. Almost every single country (I don't know of any examples to the contrary) undergoing measures of what the US calls "capitalist reform" are impoverishing the majority of their population while the elite fill their pockets and they have the gall to call it growth.

Malaysia under a guy called Mahathir were much maligned by western govts when he turned away from the noose of "free trade agreements" (essentially opening your country up for corporate exploitation) towards eastern trading (with Japan, HK etc) and he achieved a phenomenal, really phenomenal economic explosion into one of the biggest economies in Asia. Nations are getting wise to the "globalisation" rhetoric and have already begun to follow suit.

The US economy is a train wreck waiting to happen. If the US continues to buttress the only sphere it's dominant in globally, ie it's military, its desperation might be particularly dangerous if not terminal, especially under the current reactionary administration.

The US population need to see that it's government's policies are unanimously condemned worldwide. It's almost unanimous as it is - look at international gallup opinion polls on who they think is the world's major threat - it's not Iran, it's not bin Laden. What the Pakistani government has recently done is enable the US to portray it as one of the countries that's on its side in foreign policy. Hopefully this will change.

khan-92
21st September 2008, 04:23
Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon very sad May Allah have mercy on the ummah And protect us from this fitnaa aameen.

12thMan
21st September 2008, 04:33
Wow people supporting Taliban - brain chaild of USA, Saudi and Zia ul haq. and then also say USA is bad. Problem is decades old but we forget as we were supporting that and all the people involved

the Great Khan
21st September 2008, 04:49
Those pictures are wretched, or make you feel wretched.

And the Taleban promised this:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/7627584.stm


yes and we all know who is supporting behtullah MEHSUD NOW DONT WE...

look I was gonna smash the tv when I saw this and was extremely distressed...i mean islamabad used to be my home for Gods sake and now this??... However on careful reflection after calming down I have the following questions:

1) if this was carried out by mehsud and co where did they get the ton of explosives? they seem like military grade stuff considering the crater!!
we know in iraq the insurgents have access to ex iraqi army stuff but what about mehsud and co?

2) the truck had a route...how did it by pass our security?

3) if it has a route there was a meticulous plan, using reconnaissance and logistics...who provided this?

4) there was original intelligence that parlaiment was supposed to be targetted...was this the secondary target?

5) if it is the mehsud network and considering we have enough evidence to suggest they are supported by "foreign" govts what is our next move?

6) and finally I would just like to say please reflect calmly as I did..if this had exploded right inside the marriott compund it would have been much much worse..not that thats any consolation..

My duas to the people who died...and one final point chill, hussein has a point even though we may not like to hear it..

Joseph K.
21st September 2008, 04:51
As Hussain's posts above show, there is a significant section of Pakistanis who are xenophobic and hate everybody else. These people have infiltrated all areas of life. Ask the head of security how 1000 kg of explosive entered a high security zone? Obviously they had backing and support from the very people who were entrusted with the duty of stopping them. Point fingers at India, America, Afghanistan, Iran or any other country while these pests keep on eating at the roots of our nation. Kill everybody, kill Americans, kill the secular ****, kill, kill, kill. Don't expect government to stop this. Zia ul Haq started this game. Destroy your own country, set it on fire and ask for American aid to sort things out while secretly brain-washing your whole nation against the very Americans whose aid keeps you fed and defended. 'Pakistan' should be synonymous for 'political double-dealing'. Americans are not totally innocent but conspiracy theories only divert the attention from real problem. If ONE think-tank says something about 'Dawn of the American Century' or break up of Pakistan by 2015, does it mean this is THE foreign policy of that country? Real problems lie in the fact that troubled Pakistan attracts foreign aid. Zia started this game, Musharraf prolonged this game. Zia and the ISI bred and groomed haters and bigots. There were no Americans anywhere near Pakistan in early 90s, still our streets and mosques were scenes of indiscriminate killings. Hundreds of people died in Karachi in the 80s. As I said, there is a huge segment of our population who have absolutely no respect for human life. This attitude is encouraged by Pakistani agencies. As long as Pakistan stays instable, we can use the fear-factor to curry American favors (more aid). Other countries make progress by developing and employing their populations, Pakistani leaders want to get money by destroying and brain-washing their population. Yes we are in trouble, we are with you in The War Against Terror (T.W.A.T), give us aid. We are partners, help us. On the other hand breed extremists using security agencies in order to keep the 'business' going. How can this short-sighted and SICK policy bring anything good.

Inna Lillah i wa inna illaih i rajioon. Don't expect this blood-shed to stop. This is our main industry, our main source of foreign exchange. Do you want the country to go bankrupt?

Islamabadi
21st September 2008, 05:00
and i was happy listning to zardari, before this took place

feather
21st September 2008, 06:19
Just talked with my brother in law who is a doc also works for the weather ford company. He just came back from the hospital to take very short break and was going to return back in half an hour. According to him he himself has seen more then 40-50 dead so definitely lot more have died.

He mentioned couple of employees from his company have died few are injured in critical condition. The Joseph top manager who manages the company operations in Pakistan who I have met btw...has lost one his eyes and is in critical condition as well.

This means handful of non Pakistanis have died as well. My heart really goes out to everyone who suffered from this blast and those who lost their love ones.

OZGOD
21st September 2008, 06:26
On a personal note, I hope nobody here was caught up in it.

Bublu Bhuyan
21st September 2008, 06:49
On a personal note, I hope nobody here was caught up in it.
Oops, I never thought of it. Let's hope so.

siddharth
21st September 2008, 06:53
Those pictures are shattering ,disturbing .And very disappointed to see hussain's views .Very unfortunate .

Idris Gogen
21st September 2008, 07:37
What a sick, pathetic and hypocrite society we belongs to with people like Hussain making these ignorant comments. Some stupid, brainwashed jihadi put a ton of explosive and kill hundreds of innocent people and i am sure people like hussain envy him because he is on the stairway to haven

waqar_ahmad
21st September 2008, 07:50
Not to start an argument in the face of tragedy, but this doesn't seem to make sense. There's no reason for the US to support the Taliban. That's a pretty big stretch.
yes there is, and I have answered this question in this very thread. Look for it. By the way, for people who use the term Taliban like the American media, mainly two kinds of taliban are opertain gin pakistan. 1. Those who are more focused on jihad on fighting in afghanistan, and those who are anti-pakistan and carrying out terrorist activities in pakistan (read Baitullah Meshud). Meshud has foreign help, he was released form gitmo by teh US, planted in the tribal areas.

Islamabadi
21st September 2008, 07:51
my relatives that live some 50 miles outside of islamabad said that they heard the blast

Bublu Bhuyan
21st September 2008, 07:54
my relatives that live some 50 miles outside of islamabad said that they heard the blast
What !!!!! 50 miles away from Islamabad itself, and they still heard it ????

Islamabadi
21st September 2008, 08:41
sorry its 50 km, not miles, still far outside of islamabad, about 1 1/2 hour drive

Islamabadi
21st September 2008, 09:20
Was there a top secret and mysterious operation of the US Marines going on inside the Marriott when it was attacked on Saturday evening? No one will confirm it but circumstantial evidence is in abundance.

Witnessed by many, including a PPP MNA and his friends, a US embassy truckload of steel boxes was unloaded and shifted inside the Marriott Hotel on the same night when Admiral Mike Mullen met Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and others in Islamabad.

Both the main gates (the entrance and the exit) of the hotel were closed while no one except the US Marines were either allowed to go near the truck or get the steel boxes unloaded or shift them inside the hotel. These steel boxes were not passed through the scanners installed at the entrance of the hotel lobby and were reportedly shifted to the fourth and fifth floors of the Marriott.

Besides several others, PPP MNA Mumtaz Alam Gilani and his two friends, Sajjad Chaudhry, a PPP leader, and one Bashir Nadeem, witnessed this mysterious activity to which no one other than the PPP MNA objected and protested.

A source present there told The News that after entertaining them with refreshments at the Nadia restaurant at midnight when Mumtaz Alam, along with his friends, was to leave the hotel, he found a white US embassy truck standing right in front of the hotel's main entrance.

Both the In-gate and the Out-gate of the hotel were closed while almost a dozen well-built US Marines in their usual fatigues were unloading the steel boxes from the truck. No one, including the hotel security men, was either allowed to go near the truck or touch the steel boxes, which were being shifted inside the hotel but without passing through the scanners.

Upon inquiry, one of the three PPP friends who was waiting for the main gates of the hotel to open to get his car in, was informed that the suspicious boxes were shifted to the fourth and fifth floors of the hotel. Mumtaz Alam was furious both at the US Marines and the hotel security not only for the delay caused to them but also for the security lapse he was witnessing.

On his protest, there was absolutely no response from the Marines and the security men he approached were found helpless. Mumtaz Alam told the hotel security official that they were going to endanger the hotel and its security. He was also heard telling his friends that he would never visit the hotel again. He also threatened to raise the issue in parliament.

One does not know whether the PPP MNA revisited the hotel after that mysterious midnight but his brother Imtiaz Alam, who is a senior journalist, was in the same hotel when the truck exploded at the main gate of the hotel. Imtiaz Alam had a lucky escape and found his way out of the hotel with great difficulty in pitch darkness.

One of the lifts he was using fell to the ground floor just after he forced the door open on the 4th floor and got out of it.

Big Harvey
21st September 2008, 09:55
Hussain does make some valid points, even if the way he makes them are somewhat lacking in taste, and it would be good if he was to say something to distance himself from the lunatics who perpetrated this atrocity.

The blame for creating this situation does indeed lie squarely with the USA. They armed the anti-government militias in Afghanistan during the one time in that country's history when it had something resembling a progressive government. That government asked for Russian help when faced with reactionary insurgency, and when that help came, the USA fed and armed that insurgency, parts of which later merged to become the Taliban.

For a while the USA left the Taliban alone to get on with it, despite the fact that they were worse in every respect than what had gone before, and the USA only began to intervene directly in Afghanistan after 9/11. That intervention, invasion, in fact, was to do with the need to be seen do something about 9/11, rather than any desire to make things better for the long-suffering Afghan people.

The allegation the invasion was based on was that Afghanistan's Taliban government had knowingly hosted al Qaida training camps. Given the reaction of the Taliban government to the events of 9/11, it seems unlikely that they had anything to do with those attacks, and indeed they even condemned them, expressed solidarity with the American people against the people who did it!

Most of the 9/11 brainwashed zombies hailed from Saudi Arabia, not a country noted for having had the crap bombed out of it by the USA, but noted for having lots of oil.

I'm not Pakistani, but the relations with the USA are certainly worthy of discussion.

OZGOD
21st September 2008, 10:01
Was there a top secret and mysterious operation of the US Marines going on inside the Marriott when it was attacked on Saturday evening? No one will confirm it but circumstantial evidence is in abundance.

Witnessed by many, including a PPP MNA and his friends, a US embassy truckload of steel boxes was unloaded and shifted inside the Marriott Hotel on the same night when Admiral Mike Mullen met Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and others in Islamabad.

.
.
.
etc.


Link please?

OZGOD
21st September 2008, 10:10
Dubya has condemned the bombing.



Bush, presidential candidates condemn bombing
By Joan Lowy
Associated Press Writer / September 20, 2008


WASHINGTON—President Bush on Saturday strongly condemned the terrorist bombing of a Marriott hotel in Islamabad, Pakistan that killed at least one American, while he stopped short of assigning blame for the attack.

The presidential candidates were less reluctant -- Republican John McCain pointed to "violent Islamic extremism" and Democrat Barack Obama said the attack "demonstrates the grave and urgent threat that al-Qaida and its affiliates pose to the United States, to Pakistan, and to the security of all nations."

Bush said in a statement the attack -- which killed dozens, including at least one American -- "is part of a continuing assault on the people of Pakistan."

"This attack is a reminder of the ongoing threat faced by Pakistan, the United States, and all those who stand against violent extremism," said Bush, who extended his condolences to the families of those killed.

He promised to "assist Pakistan in confronting this threat and bringing the perpetrators to justice," and to support Pakistanis "as they face enormous challenges economically as well as from terrorism."

State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said: "This barbaric attack comes during the month of Ramadan, only underscoring that those responsible have no respect for the principles of their faith. This strike to the heart of the Pakistani capital leaves no doubt as to the intentions of these extremist elements. Their goal is to create mayhem and weaken the institutions of government so that they may operate unfettered while spreading their intolerance."

McCormack noted that one American was among the dead and several others have been injured. He said the government is "in the process of notifying next of kin."

Obama, campaigning in Florida, and McCain, who attended a Navy football game in Annapolis, Md., also issued statements extending their condolences.

Obama said: "As the attack earlier this week on our embassy in Yemen shows, over seven years after 9/11, the terrorist threat knows no borders, and the terrorists threaten innocent civilians of all religions and regions. Now is the time to refocus our efforts on defeating al-Qaida and securing the American people."

An attack Wednesday by a half dozen gunmen on the U.S. Embassy in Yemen killed 17 people, including one American.

Obama also called for "a deep and lasting partnership with Pakistan, and with nations around the world, to root out and destroy al-Qaida and its affiliates. The United States must lead a truly global effort to prevail against al-Qaida and their hate-filled ideology."

McCain said the bombing in Islamabad "must serve to deepen the resolve of Americans and Pakistanis alike to aggressively confront those terrorist groups that seek our destruction."

"While no organization has yet taken responsibility for this act, it is well known that Pakistan faces an enduring threat from violent Islamic extremism," McCain said. "We must work with the elected government of Pakistan to find those responsible, hold them accountable, and diminish their ability to threaten us and our allies in the future."

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2008/09/20/bush_presidential_candidates_condemn_bombing/

Islamabadi
21st September 2008, 10:16
Link please?http://thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=17401

Islamabadi
21st September 2008, 10:17
Dubya has condemned the bombing.

please Bush we do not want "freedom" like Iraq, stay out of it

Showman
21st September 2008, 10:40
Really very sad.

Inna lillahi wa ina illahi rajioon

My best friend's cousin was injured in the attack. Fortunately, he doesn't have any severe injuries and will be in the ICU for only a couple of days. But sadly many more such as his friends are in critical condition, not to mention the many who lost their lives.

A very depressing day for the nation and for our people.

May Allah help the families of those who lost loved ones or have loved ones in critical condition, get through this.

DM
21st September 2008, 10:50
please Bush we do not want "freedom" like Iraq, stay out of it
Are you sure?! I know it's not there yet but it's only cost 1.3 million corpses so far.

I cant believe George Bush has the gall to open his mouth at this point. Never mind the fact that he's killed thousands of Afghanis just across the border.

McBoom
21st September 2008, 10:51
Hussain does make some valid points, even if the way he makes them are somewhat lacking in taste, and it would be good if he was to say something to distance himself from the lunatics who perpetrated this atrocity.

The blame for creating this situation does indeed lie squarely with the USA. They armed the anti-government militias in Afghanistan during the one time in that country's history when it had something resembling a progressive government. That government asked for Russian help when faced with reactionary insurgency, and when that help came, the USA fed and armed that insurgency, parts of which later merged to become the Taliban.

For a while the USA left the Taliban alone to get on with it, despite the fact that they were worse in every respect than what had gone before, and the USA only began to intervene directly in Afghanistan after 9/11. That intervention, invasion, in fact, was to do with the need to be seen do something about 9/11, rather than any desire to make things better for the long-suffering Afghan people.

The allegation the invasion was based on was that Afghanistan's Taliban government had knowingly hosted al Qaida training camps. Given the reaction of the Taliban government to the events of 9/11, it seems unlikely that they had anything to do with those attacks, and indeed they even condemned them, expressed solidarity with the American people against the people who did it!

Most of the 9/11 brainwashed zombies hailed from Saudi Arabia, not a country noted for having had the crap bombed out of it by the USA, but noted for having lots of oil.

I'm not Pakistani, but the relations with the USA are certainly worthy of discussion.A very good point Harvey and it is the most overlooked one. Taliban government back then even agreed to hand over Bin Laden to any neutral Islamic country where he could have a fair trial and only demanded some sort of evidence of Al-Qaeda's involvement in the attack from the US.

I wonder why there was never any official enquiry by the US on the Twin Towers incident.

McBoom
21st September 2008, 10:52
I cant believe George Bush has the gall to open his mouth at this point. Never mind the fact that he's killed thousands of Afghanis just across the border.Arrogance personified !

UP
21st September 2008, 11:05
Very sad sad sad news. I was recently in Pakistan and had a dinner in Mariott in August with friends and also to say the tight security over there was a headache for us. Such a beautiful hotel and my condolences to all those who lost their loved ones and RIP who died in this very unfortunate act by coward people. May those people burn in hell who are responsble for all this.

Khabri420
21st September 2008, 11:08
Crazy stuff...I remember being there a while back...about 7 years or so ago for my sister and brother in law's walima.

Master Blaster
21st September 2008, 11:11
Rip !! :(

MIG
21st September 2008, 11:24
The perperators become heroes and the victims are villains.

This is what its down to in the minds of many Pakistanis this morning.

Its come down to this that they look at the dead bodies of their countrymen and instead of lending a shoulder to the hearse, they shout "Well you asked for it - you deserved it"

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon.

May ALLAH have mercy on the people of Pakistan - Ameen.

Blistering Barnacle
21st September 2008, 11:29
I wonder why there was never any official enquiry by the US on the Twin Towers incident.

In fact there was and it is referred to as the 9/11 commission report.

McBoom
21st September 2008, 12:20
In fact there was and it is referred to as the 9/11 commission report.You mean that report whose commission members were hand picked by George W Bush ??

But I should have mentioned an independent inquiry in my post.

Hash
21st September 2008, 13:00
Hussain whatever his name is has crossed a serious line here.

People who I know are likely to have died or been injured in this attack. Coming on here and seeing Hussain justify it and portray the bombing as some kind of heroic act has made me VERY angry. [Edit by Mods: Lets keep it civil]

OZGOD
21st September 2008, 13:01
The perperators become heroes and the victims are villains.

This is what its down to in the minds of many Pakistanis this morning.

Its come down to this that they look at the dead bodies of their countrymen and instead of lending a shoulder to the hearse, they shout "Well you asked for it - you deserved it"

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon.

May ALLAH have mercy on the people of Pakistan - Ameen.

Who considers the perpetrators to be heroes, MIG? How can people who kill innocents be considered heroes?

MIG
21st September 2008, 13:12
OZGOD: This is the twisted logic of some Pakistanis, on this board and on the streets in Pakistan who think that we have brought on this attack on ourselves

Hash
21st September 2008, 13:14
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45037000/jpg/_45037421_orangesuits_afp466.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45037000/jpg/_45037424_wideshot2_afp466.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45037000/jpg/_45037423_sifting_afp466.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45037000/jpg/_45037418_bluehats_afp466.jpg

MIG
21st September 2008, 13:17
Hussain - have deleted your posts which I and many others find disgusting.

Do not attempt to post such utter hate again.

Consider this your final warning.

Big Daddy
21st September 2008, 13:46
Hussain - have deleted your posts which I and many others find disgusting.

Do not attempt to post such utter hate again.

Consider this your final warning.

Miggy u r getting old, back in the day there were no final warnings, there was a pm and then a pms , err banned straight up

Momo
21st September 2008, 13:55
The perperators become heroes and the victims are villains.

This is what its down to in the minds of many Pakistanis this morning.

Its come down to this that they look at the dead bodies of their countrymen and instead of lending a shoulder to the hearse, they shout "Well you asked for it - you deserved it"

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Illahi Rajiyoon.

May ALLAH have mercy on the people of Pakistan - Ameen.

OZGOD: This is the twisted logic of some Pakistanis, on this board and on the streets in Pakistan who think that we have brought on this attack on ourselves
MIG, I agree with you that it will be very unfortunate (and unfair) to say that we deserved it, or we asked for it, or we have brought on this attack on ourselves.

Having said that, it will be equally unfortunate (and wrong) to go to the other extreme (i.e., our policies had nothing to do with what happened). See, whatever we ever do as an individual or a nation, it starts a chain of events that in the end has very real results. In fact it will be hard to do something - however small - that has no consequences and implications.

So I hope we are wise and take the middle (and correct) route, i.e., while we didn't actually deserve it or asked for it, we may have committed some mistakes that at least partly led to this. This has been a disaster, and like all disasters it will be unfortunate if we don't learn any lessons from it. And it will be unfortunate if instead of thinking about how we may have formulated some bad policies, we revert to name-calling and trying to shut up any dissenting voices (without finding out whether they are making a valid point or not), and this is my message to all posters on PP in general.

This is a difficult issue and is very similar to the debate that started after 911 in USA. Now in USA (which I believe boasts of more emotional idiots per square mile than any other country of the world), most people fell into this trap (they refused to even consider the possibility that US policies may be even partly responsible for the unfortunate event).

We saw politicians scoring cheap points using this kind of if-you-think-our-middle-east-policies-even-have-anything-remotely-to-do-with-911-you-are-a-traitor policy. People like Ron Paul were made to shut-up and nobody listened to him amongst all the false patriotic shouting. The result: US learnt all the wrong lessons from 911, and it was certainly not good for the rest of the world, and of course neither for US.

Please watch the following as it is amazingly relevent to our problem here. I hope we don't behave like the greatest defender of USA, Giuliani, and instead talk sense like Ron Paul:

AD7dnFDdwu0

Now nobody can defend suicide bombings of non-combatants. It is neither islamic, nor moral. But we will be equally wrong if we refuse to accept that we have made quite a few mistakes in the last eight years, and that we need to do some introspection and some learning from mistakes.

That we are not fighting any "mujahideen", is clear. It's a political issue and should be dealt with a little more expertly than what we have managed to date.

Bublu Bhuyan
21st September 2008, 13:59
sorry its 50 km, not miles, still far outside of islamabad, about 1 1/2 hour drive
Man this is mind boggling. They live 50 kms away from Islamabad itself, and they still heard it !!!! Anyway, the crater created by the explosion in the pics tell us about the impact.

MIG
21st September 2008, 14:06
MIG, I agree with you that it will be very unfortunate (and unfair) to say that we deserved it, or we asked for it, or we have brought on this attack on ourselves.

Having said that, it will be equally unfortunate (and wrong) to go to the other extreme (i.e., our policies had nothing to do with what happened). See, whatever we ever do as an individual or a nation, it starts a chain of events that in the end has very real results. In fact it will be hard to do something - however small - that has no consequences and implications.

So I hope we are wise and take the middle (and correct) route, i.e., while we didn't actually deserve it or asked for it, we may have committed some mistakes that at least partly led to this. This has been a disaster, and like all disasters it will be unfortunate if we don't learn any lessons from it. And it will be unfortunate if instead of thinking about how we may have formulated some bad policies, we revert to name-calling and trying to shut up any dissenting voices (without finding out whether they are making a valid point or not), and this is my message to all posters on PP in general.

This is a difficult issue and is very similar to the debate that started after 911 in USA. Now in USA (which I believe boasts of more emotional idiots per square mile than any other country of the world), most people fell into this trap (they refused to even consider the possibility that US policies may be even partly responsible for the unfortunate event).

We saw politicians scoring cheap points using this kind of if-you-think-our-middle-east-policies-even-have-anything-remotely-to-do-with-911-you-are-a-traitor policy. People like Ron Paul were made to shut-up and nobody listened to him amongst all the false patriotic shouting. The result: US learnt all the wrong lessons from 911, and it was certainly not good for the rest of the world, and of course neither for US.

Please watch the following as it is amazingly relevent to our problem here. I hope we don't behave like the greatest defender of USA, Giuliani, and instead talk sense like Ron Paul:

AD7dnFDdwu0

Now nobody can defend suicide bombings of non-combatants. It is neither islamic, nor moral. But we will be equally wrong if we refuse to accept that we have made quite a few mistakes in the last eight years, and that we need to do some introspection and some learning from mistakes.

That we are not fighting any "mujahideen", is clear. It's a political issue and should be dealt with a little more expertly than what we have managed to date.

Couldnt have expressed it any better - thanks Momo.

Hash
21st September 2008, 14:14
MIG, I agree with you that it will be very unfortunate (and unfair) to say that we deserved it, or we asked for it, or we have brought on this attack on ourselves.

Unfortunate would not be a strong enough word. There can never be any justification or explanation for such an act. It is a vile act committed by maniacs....and there is nothing more or less to it.


Having said that, it will be equally unfortunate (and wrong) to go to the other extreme (i.e., our policies had nothing to do with what happened). See, whatever we ever do as an individual or a nation, it starts a chain of events that in the end has very real results. In fact it will be hard to do something - however small - that has no consequences and implications.

Similarly...it would be naive and ridiculous to assume that the behaviour and actions of these animals had nothing to do with our policies towards them.


So I hope we are wise and take the middle (and correct) route, i.e., while we didn't actually deserve it or asked for it, we may have committed some mistakes that at least partly led to this. This has been a disaster, and like all disasters it will be unfortunate if we don't learn any lessons from it.

The biggest mistake being when Zia sold the country to the Americans and the Saudis. We all know what happened after that.What we are seeing in Pakistan today is the legacy of Zia ul Haq. The people of Pakistan do not deserve this. The country does not even partly deserve this.

And again....your logic can also be applied to the militants. This wasn't just some random thing that we suddenly decided 'oh it will be fun to take some military action against some men with beards wearing rags'. It was their actions and their behaviour which led to our policies against them. They were working against our national interest and are doing so to an even greater extent now.



And it will be unfortunate if instead of thinking about how we may have formulated some bad policies, we revert to name-calling and trying to shut up any dissenting voices (without finding out whether they are making a valid point or not), and this is my message to all posters on PP in general.

Ofcourse there is a difference between a 'dissenting voice' and someone who is making the people who carried out last nights bombing into heroes and lions who are fighting a just war.


This is a difficult issue and is very similar to the debate that started after 911 in USA. Now in USA (which I believe boasts of more emotional idiots per square mile than any other country of the world), most people fell into this trap (they refused to even consider the possibility that US policies may be even partly responsible for the unfortunate event).

The deliberate killing of innocent civilians (as in 9/11 and yesterday in Islamabad) can never be explained away or even be held 'partly justifiable'. But yes, everything and anything has a 'root cause'. And even if we have followed policies which may have 'partly' contributed to this root cause.....that does not mean that those policies were wrong.


We saw politicians scoring cheap points using this kind of if-you-think-our-middle-east-policies-even-have-anything-remotely-to-do-with-911-you-are-a-traitor policy. People like Ron Paul were made to shut-up and nobody listened to him amongst all the false patriotic shouting. The result: US learnt all the wrong lessons from 911, and it was certainly not good for the rest of the world, and of course neither for US.

In Pakistan we have politicians like Qazi Hussain Ahmed who refuse to condemn the bombing and instead score cheap political points and try to express sympathy for the terrorists.


Now nobody can defend suicide bombings of non-combatants. It is neither islamic, nor moral. But we will be equally wrong if we refuse to accept that we have made quite a few mistakes in the last eight years, and that we need to do some introspection and some learning from mistakes.

What mistakes, specifically, are you talking about in the last 8 years? And why were those mistakes wrong and what would have been the correct thing to do in Pakistan's national interest? Name them, so then we can discuss it and how it may or may not have contributed to last nights atrocity.

Ace Base
21st September 2008, 14:33
My condolences to all my Pakistani brothers and sisters. Inna Lillahi wa Inna ilahi Rajeoon. May Allah forgive the sins of those who died and may He guide the ones who were left behind to the Truth.

I heard the news last night and my heart sank. I have been in a state of depression ever since, even though I realise a Muslim should never alolow depression to overtake him or her.

Allah knows best who is responsible for this calamity and make no mistake Allah's justice is swift. And lasting.

However, one thing is for sure. There are enough people in this world with ''Kharaji'' mentality who'll try and twist and justify this.

Unfortunately, our governments, our instityutions, our parents, our teachers, our peers do not pay much attention to the teaching of Aqeedah and Manhaj to the youth and then they wonder how these despicable people breed.

We have the same problem in Saudia, in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in London; everywhere where you have disaffected youth and poisonous 'scholars'.

It is a time for Istighfar and introspection.

More later, InshaAllah.

Ace Base
21st September 2008, 14:38
Hussain - have deleted your posts which I and many others find disgusting.

Do not attempt to post such utter hate again.

Consider this your final warning.

It is not my place to tell you what to do, but those with Khariji fikr should be advised once and then banned immediately. I'd rather have the kuffar and murtids posting rubbish about Islam than these Khawarij who pretend they are going to earn closeness to Allah and Jannah with their bloodlust.

The scholars of the Ummah have said that if faced with a choice between fighting the Kuffar and fighting the Khawaarij, then, the Khawaarij must be fought first because they tarnish the name of Islam.

And calling for the killing of civilians, suicide bombing, fighting against the government et cetera; these are and always have been the signs of the Khawaarij. Like I said, all the Muslims here, starting with myself need a lesson in Aqeedah and Manhaj.

Sheikh
21st September 2008, 14:47
My memories of the Marriott, Islamabad.

Stayed there on a number of occasions, last time being the previous summer on a two day trip for a swiss visa. I'm very fond of Isloo; being from Karachi I welcome the peace and tranquility, not to mention the greenery and scenery of the town; it just smells different to Karachi!

The Marriott is a friendly little joint; everyone seems laid back and eager to be of assistance, without being sycophantic. There's a little market place and kebab house nearby and I used to trot back and forth whenever I pleased. I would almost always choose to travel on foot in Isloo; it just seems conducive to do so.

Had a trip planned next month for another visa visit. Suppose I won't be staying at the Marriott. Sigh...

Ace Base
21st September 2008, 14:48
Oh, I forgot to mention, this is the hotel I stayed in when I went to Pakistan for the relief effort a few years ago. Made the news particularly chilling for me.

Momo
21st September 2008, 15:08
The biggest mistake being when Zia sold the country to the Americans and the Saudis. We all know what happened after that.What we are seeing in Pakistan today is the legacy of Zia ul Haq. The people of Pakistan do not deserve this. The country does not even partly deserve this.
The part about Zia is very accurate. That the people of Pakistan don't deserve it is also true. But unfortunately, people have to face the consequences of bad policies of their governments.

And again....your logic can also be applied to the militants. This wasn't just some random thing that we suddenly decided 'oh it will be fun to take some military action against some men with beards wearing rags'. It was their actions and their behaviour which led to our policies against them. They were working against our national interest and are doing so to an even greater extent now.
Yes, but they were our own Frankensteins. True, they came back to haunt us, but again, we can't just simply say that we had nothing to do with their actions and bahaviour. Even on the eve of 911, they were our own.

The deliberate killing of innocent civilians (as in 9/11 and yesterday in Islamabad) can never be explained away or even be held 'partly justifiable'. But yes, everything and anything has a 'root cause'. And even if we have followed policies which may have 'partly' contributed to this root cause.....that does not mean that those policies were wrong.
That depends upon how far back you are willing to go. If you consider our policy of "creating" them from scratch (with ready help from USA), then I will argue that those policies were wrong.

What mistakes, specifically, are you talking about in the last 8 years? And why were those mistakes wrong and what would have been the correct thing to do in Pakistan's national interest? Name them, so then we can discuss it and how it may or may not have contributed to last nights atrocity.
How about having a military dictator and no parliament, for starters (the 'coincidental' repeat of the Zia story at the time of the previous Afghan war - and willingness to fight US's fight at the sole cost of letting the dictator rule). Deciding on policy decisions over telephone conversations. Almost proudly broadcasting the shameful story of the stone age threat. Looking like fighting the US war (even if it was our own war, as was later announced).

The correct thing to do would have been to do the opposite of all the things mentioned above.

Easa
21st September 2008, 15:49
I heard about this yesterday but didn't get a chance to post. I'm actually in Pakistan right now, thankfully not in Islamabad.

Awful news. I hope the ones responsible die cruel, horrible deaths for the amount of damage they've done to innocent civilians. It boils my blood.

Hash
21st September 2008, 15:53
The part about Zia is very accurate. That the people of Pakistan don't deserve it is also true. But unfortunately, people have to face the consequences of bad policies of their governments.

True.


Yes, but they were our own Frankensteins. True, they came back to haunt us, but again, we can't just simply say that we had nothing to do with their actions and bahaviour. Even on the eve of 911, they were our own.

They were our own Frankenstein's until they started working against the national interest of Pakistan. They were 'our own Frankensteins' (and also America's and Saudi Arabia's) during the Afghan 'jihad' against the Soviets. But that doesn't mean we should continue to tolerate them when they blatently work against the interests of Pakistan.


That depends upon how far back you are willing to go. If you consider our policy of "creating" them from scratch (with ready help from USA), then I will argue that those policies were wrong.

Agree it was wrong of Zia to sell our country to America and Saudi Arabia. It was wrong of Zia to pour millions and arms/ammunition and brainwash/fill people with hatred for others and religious zeal. That policy of the Zia regime will continue to haunt Pakistan for years to come. And it is the legacy of that policy which we are seeing today in the form of bomb blasts, sub states, the blowing up of girls schools, the blowing up of cd/dvd shops, the blowing up of barbor shops etc. Zia ul Haq is to blame for the ills we are seeing today.


How about having a military dictator and no parliament, for starters (the 'coincidental' repeat of the Zia story at the time of the previous Afghan war - and willingness to fight US's fight at the sole cost of letting the dictator rule). Deciding on policy decisions over telephone conversations. Almost proudly broadcasting the shameful story of the stone age threat. Looking like fighting the US war (even if it was our own war, as was later announced).

The correct thing to do would have been to do the opposite of all the things mentioned above.

The 'democracy vs military rule' debate is a seperate one. But on this instance, it does not make any difference. The militants are not exactly such magnificent advocates of democracy that had there been a democratic government since 9/11 they would have just listened to everything they would have said. The type of government in Islamabad does not make any difference to them. They come from areas where the government writ is minimal in any case.

None of the things you have mentioned could justifiably contribute to the bombing yesterday.

MIG
21st September 2008, 15:54
Oh, I forgot to mention, this is the hotel I stayed in when I went to Pakistan for the relief effort a few years ago. Made the news particularly chilling for me.

That was in Ramadan as well.

Momo
21st September 2008, 16:05
Hash, we agree on everything except the mistakes in our last eight years (our views on Zia/US/Saudi/"jehaad" are identical.


The 'democracy vs military rule' debate is a seperate one. But on this instance, it does not make any difference. The militants are not exactly such magnificent advocates of democracy that had there been a democratic government since 9/11 they would have just listened to everything they would have said. The type of government in Islamabad does not make any difference to them. They come from areas where the government writ is minimal in any case.

None of the things you have mentioned could justifiably contribute to the bombing yesterday.
Of course the militants don't give two monkeys about democracy or dictatorship. We agree there.

But my point was this: a dictator is more obliged to tow the US line blindly (not that civilians are Hugo Chavezes by any stretch of imagination).

One, there are so many characters around (President, parliament, PM, COAS) to pass the buck (when pressurized by US).

Two, there is less of a 'kaana' element (if you allow my using a slightly indecent word). A military ruler is always keen to please US to avoid having to hear an impassioned lecture on democracy and its fruits.

Three, even with the 'caliber' of our MPs and ministers, I believe they can still advise the premier better than a bunch of generals ever can hope to. Remember Churchill (war is too serious a matter to let generals decide)? This is true for both war and peace.

I think our biggest 'mistake' was to have a military dictator at the helm, when it mattered most (both editions of Afghan wars - one 'jehaad' the other 'against terror'). Was it a coincidence, is the million dollar question.

Hash
21st September 2008, 16:11
Hash, we agree on everything except the mistakes in our last eight years (our views on Zia/US/Saudi/"jehaad" are identical.


Of course the militants don't give two monkeys about democracy or dictatorship. We agree there.

But my point was this: a dictator is more obliged to tow the US line blindly (not that civilians are Hugo Chavezes by any stretch of imagination).

One, there are so many characters around (President, parliament, PM, COAS) to pass the buck (when pressurized by US).

Two, there is less of a 'kaana' element (if you allow my using a slightly indecent word). A military ruler is always keen to please US to avoid having to hear an impassioned lecture on democracy and its fruits.

Three, even with the 'caliber' of our MPs and ministers, I believe they can still advise the premier better than a bunch of generals ever can hope to. Remember Churchill (war is too serious a matter to let generals decide)? This is true for both war and peace.

I think our biggest 'mistake' was to have a military dictator at the helm, when it mattered most (both editions of Afghan wars - one 'jehaad' the other 'against terror'). Was it a coincidence, is the million dollar question.

I do see where you are coming from Momo. But where I differ is that I don't believe things would have been any different if we had a democratic government in power for the last 8 years.

Hash
21st September 2008, 16:15
Some more pictures. Click on the links...VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED.

Investigators comb the scene (http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/82929491.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C23E711426B7779D3D2 284831B75F48EF45)

Rescue workers leave the Marriot (http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/82929376.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C238B1F5C1E6EF7EE30 284831B75F48EF45)

Policeman carries injured lady (BLOOD IN THIS PHOTO) (http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/82926829.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C232C2DF51C64680FF3 284831B75F48EF45)

Injured man carried out of rubble (BLOOD IN THIS PHOTO) (http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/82926301.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C238A5CF57DEBEFBA15 284831B75F48EF45)

Injured man being helped (SEVERE DISCRETION ADVISED) (http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/82926187.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F1A54CE2C4AF7C23AEB343735B39AD39 284831B75F48EF45)

Momo
21st September 2008, 16:17
I do see where you are coming from Momo. But where I differ is that I don't believe things would have been any different if we had a democratic government in power for the last 8 years.
Even a part of me (the cynical one) agrees with you (the more things change in Pakistan, the more they stay the same). Another half (the optimist) says, "who knows if ..."

Well it's all so much water under the bridge. I hope we somehow come out of the little mess we have created for ourselves here.

Momo
21st September 2008, 16:20
Hash, the first link is dead (others okay).

Legendary_Sage
21st September 2008, 16:22
MIG, I agree with you that it will be very unfortunate (and unfair) to say that we deserved it, or we asked for it, or we have brought on this attack on ourselves.

Having said that, it will be equally unfortunate (and wrong) to go to the other extreme (i.e., our policies had nothing to do with what happened). See, whatever we ever do as an individual or a nation, it starts a chain of events that in the end has very real results. In fact it will be hard to do something - however small - that has no consequences and implications.

So I hope we are wise and take the middle (and correct) route, i.e., while we didn't actually deserve it or asked for it, we may have committed some mistakes that at least partly led to this. This has been a disaster, and like all disasters it will be unfortunate if we don't learn any lessons from it. And it will be unfortunate if instead of thinking about how we may have formulated some bad policies, we revert to name-calling and trying to shut up any dissenting voices (without finding out whether they are making a valid point or not), and this is my message to all posters on PP in general.

This is a difficult issue and is very similar to the debate that started after 911 in USA. Now in USA (which I believe boasts of more emotional idiots per square mile than any other country of the world), most people fell into this trap (they refused to even consider the possibility that US policies may be even partly responsible for the unfortunate event).

We saw politicians scoring cheap points using this kind of if-you-think-our-middle-east-policies-even-have-anything-remotely-to-do-with-911-you-are-a-traitor policy. People like Ron Paul were made to shut-up and nobody listened to him amongst all the false patriotic shouting. The result: US learnt all the wrong lessons from 911, and it was certainly not good for the rest of the world, and of course neither for US.

Please watch the following as it is amazingly relevent to our problem here. I hope we don't behave like the greatest defender of USA, Giuliani, and instead talk sense like Ron Paul:

AD7dnFDdwu0

Now nobody can defend suicide bombings of non-combatants. It is neither islamic, nor moral. But we will be equally wrong if we refuse to accept that we have made quite a few mistakes in the last eight years, and that we need to do some introspection and some learning from mistakes.

That we are not fighting any "mujahideen", is clear. It's a political issue and should be dealt with a little more expertly than what we have managed to date.
The is unarguably the Best Post of the thread so far.Top Post mate..

Hash
21st September 2008, 16:45
Head of Interior Ministry Rehman Malik making statement now.

53 confirmed dead (including foreigners)
266 injured (including foreigners)
600kg of explosives used (largest ever attack in history of Pakistan)
'All roads point to FATA'

He asked the media to stop making heroes out of the militants.

And is still talking now.

Hash
21st September 2008, 16:47
Says there was sketchy intelligence about the possibility of a suicide bombing in Islamabad for the last 2 days.

Hash
21st September 2008, 16:49
Says foreigners have been arrested and killed in Bajaur.
Says suicide bombing has gone down in the last 4-5 months. Says suicide bombing in NWFP has gone down by 80%.
We will never surrender to the terrorists.

Hash
21st September 2008, 16:52
says we will never negotiate with the militants

Hash
21st September 2008, 17:05
Just showed CCTV footage.

Firstly Rehman Malik clarified that there is a lot of construction going on in the area and after sunset the police tend not to check trucks carrying construction material, bricks etc. The terrorists used this.

CCTV footage shows truck ramming into the steel barrier and failing to break it. It then catches fire and you can see security people around the truck and someone trying to put the fire out. A few minutes later the truck explodes.

DM
21st September 2008, 17:24
Fantastic posts above by Momo, some terrific insight, and I'm very glad we have a poster with such caliber here.

This is a very sensitive time, but we must be careful of not making the same mistakes of the American government and media post 9-11. Yes it is difficult to discuss motive, reasons, but we should not silence it.

MIG I don't know what Hussain recently posted, but I'd urge you to consider only deleting posts if they are gratuitously offensive. I remember the time post 9/11 where motive was just off the agenda and we'd have blanket censorship. The result was an uninformed, blunderbuss response from its military. Also see below


Unfortunate would not be a strong enough word. There can never be any justification or explanation for such an act. It is a vile act committed by maniacs....and there is nothing more or less to it.This is a perfect example of one of the most serious mistakes committed by the US press and govt post 9/11.

To say that the act has no explanation and to label the terrorists as maniacs, or as the US press liked to use "mindless", is to say that they don't have a mind, they're too crazy, so we don't have to explain a motive, because they couldn't possibly have capacity for one. That's a very dangerous course. No act is without motive or explanation. If you aren't aware of it, you can justify any response (eg destroying Afghanistan and Iraq).

Governments by their nature of being centralised power-structures may be expected to use the above tactics, but we the populace should be the ones curbing this as much as possible and introducing more reasoning, because without it we won't have a hope in hell of alleviating the situation.

There are many analogues in history, FARC, Tamil Tigers, IRA etc. When the British response to internal bombing was just more bloodshed, did that solve the problem? The answer to that question is no. When motive and grievances were actually considered, solutions were born.


(Head of Interior Ministry) says we will never negotiate with the militantsAgain if this gentleman had one iota of historical awareness, these deeply odious words would never emerge from his mouth. If he is actually serious about this and it isn't just a political soundbite, then if we take history to be the template, it is no less than a doomed policy - look at pretty much every militant group in history for examples - there is ALWAYS a perceived grievance that can be negotiating point for diplomacy.

Saying that, I don't believe Pakistan as a whole will follow the path of US rhetoric, it is a much more politically savvy nation.

DHONI183
21st September 2008, 17:40
I have just seen the footage which was shown during the press conference. I must pay my tribute to those security officials who faced it with encourage:14:!!! We can´t blame them for what has happened because they tried their best. May they all rest in peace and get reward for their efforts:9:.