Faithfreedom.org

[tahaqureshi]

I have come across this site which is Anti-Islam and it has given me several sleepless nights. Basically its a large group of people who claim Islam to be a violent religion and call the Prophet (PBUH) a murderer, rapist, padeophile, slave trader etc, Nauzubillah.

And they present verses from the Quran itself, the Hadith and also statements from the Ulema to make Islam look like a religion full of contradictions and one that only preaches hatred, violence and intolerance.

The forum is http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum .

I can't explain their arguements here, but they are strong and although I have FULL IMAN, I have a hard time rebutting them. For all those brothers on PP who are well versed in Islam, please visit the site and help the cause of Islam. It may seem like a waste of time, but they have given an open challenge, that if anyone can disprove them, then they will close the site.

Pls post your comments here.

[zaf1986]

taha bhai

I wouldn't bother with them. I used to be a member there. But the following verse of Quran comes to mind

"Deaf, dumb and blind..." - thats what they are.

"Those whose hearts have been sealed, none can guide"

Hazrat Ali has said, "There is enough light for he who wishes to see"

If you ask my advice, leave them be - "The truth has been clearly manifest from the falsehood" - Ayatul Kursi

[Bitman]

I don't bother with such people.

[DM]

Don't worry your head about them Taha. I haven't even clicked on the link and nor am i going to. And it's not because i cannot answer them, it's because i can imagine the common arguments they will try to convey. In my day of furious debates back in the day on Yahoo chat and some forums I realised there is nothing to gain with people who are intent in demonising one side, and are not actually interested in learning from the debate. You can tell these people simply by their refusal to accept any mistakes you reveal. And i can tell you, with enough research, each and every one of their arguments can be refuted. After a couple of years "in this business" i started coming across the same arguments over and over, and eventually i just got bored, wondering what i've achieved in exhaustively refuting a couple of (usually) obnoxious Yahoo IDs at 4am on Saturday morning. There were the questions from genuine people, but i found that they tended to be in the minority. And there was all the business of answeringislam.org, and the website which answered that site, and the business of which websites to use, and i ended up with a reliable list. What i would say is that initially i developed a better understanding myself of islam as i searched through the quran, the translations, the interpretations and hadiths, articles, books, booklets in this endeavour, and prepared me well for whatever questions my colleagues asked at uni, and usually the same topics - our Prophet, his wives, Aisha, women in islam, Jihad, killing all non-muslims, spreading islam at the point of the sword etc etc etc - each one of these has good and usually simple explanations. And the in the usual Quranic verses thrown up, the crux of the matter was more often than not the context. For example i would usually find the answer in the next verse or the preceding one. An interpretation (eg by ibn katheer or others) is also very helpful (though they used to be difficult to find online - it should be easier nowadays). Taken out of context, you can interpret Harry Potter as a KKK manual. Not having awareness of context leads to much misunderstanding. That's crucial to understand.

In saying all that however, if you are genuinely concerned with the rebuttal of one or more topics, then you can post them here and inshallah one of us will be able to reply adequately (it's been some time now for me but i'll dig out the books if needs be!).

[zaf1986]

Taken out of context, you can interpret Harry Potter as a KKK manual.
:))

true

[Wiji]

There are a bunch of anti-islamic 'extremists' running that forum. Most of them seem to be ex-Muslims who have gone astray. (May God bring them back to the light).

[ataullah]

Salam Taha, my advise is dont bother with them as it'll put doubts in ur iman and destroy your taqwa my brother. Imam Ghazali r.a says debating destroys a person spiritually. May Allah give them hidayat and us steadfastness.

[ataullah]

Don't worry your head about them Taha. I haven't even clicked on the link and nor am i going to. And it's not because i cannot answer them, it's because i can imagine the common arguments they will try to convey. In my day of furious debates back in the day on Yahoo chat and some forums I realised there is nothing to gain with people who are intent in demonising one side, and are not actually interested in learning from the debate. You can tell these people simply by their refusal to accept any mistakes you reveal. And i can tell you, with enough research, each and every one of their arguments can be refuted. After a couple of years "in this business" i started coming across the same arguments over and over, and eventually i just got bored, wondering what i've achieved in exhaustively refuting a couple of (usually) obnoxious Yahoo IDs at 4am on Saturday morning. There were the questions from genuine people, but i found that they tended to be in the minority. And there was all the business of answeringislam.org, and the website which answered that site, and the business of which websites to use, and i ended up with a reliable list. What i would say is that initially i developed a better understanding myself of islam as i searched through the quran, the translations, the interpretations and hadiths, articles, books, booklets in this endeavour, and prepared me well for whatever questions my colleagues asked at uni, and usually the same topics - our Prophet, his wives, Aisha, women in islam, Jihad, killing all non-muslims, spreading islam at the point of the sword etc etc etc - each one of these has good and usually simple explanations. And the in the usual Quranic verses thrown up, the crux of the matter was more often than not the context. For example i would usually find the answer in the next verse or the preceding one. An interpretation (eg by ibn katheer or others) is also very helpful (though they used to be difficult to find online - it should be easier nowadays). Taken out of context, you can interpret Harry Potter as a KKK manual. Not having awareness of context leads to much misunderstanding. That's crucial to understand.

In saying all that however, if you are genuinely concerned with the rebuttal of one or more topics, then you can post them here and inshallah one of us will be able to reply adequately (it's been some time now for me but i'll dig out the books if needs be!).

Mashallah DM, i agree 100% with u:19:

[Schiller]

Salam Taha, my advise is dont bother with them as it'll put doubts in ur iman and destroy your taqwa my brother. Imam Ghazali r.a says debating destroys a person spiritually. May Allah give them hidayat and us steadfastness.

completely disagree with the said imam there. if debate is to seek truth, then all the more of it

[Ace Base]

DM

Akhi, wise words indeed. Pay heed, pay heed, all.

I've had a look at the site and it is basically a re-hash of some old nonsense refuted a long time ago by a bunch of Muslim students at Oxford University. One of my mates, who participated in the rebuttal, showed me copies of emails exchanged with these shayaateen (devils) and when confronted with the counter-arguments none of them replied. No, not a single one.

Furthermore, in Hyde Park, London, Brother Abdur Rahim Greene openly addressed each one of these points and refuted them and then openly challenged these people to meet him the following Sunday if they had anything else to say. Once again, not a peep out of them.

The attempt at "five minutes of fame" by slandering the noble religion of Islaam is nothing new as the Quraysh of Makkah were the first ones to indulge into it. Look where they ended up.

I would be more concerned with developing my knowledge and understanding of Islaam than try and refute these intellectually challenged parasites.

Like Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah said: "There are many who attempt to become famous by urinating in the well of Zamzam....."

[Geordie Ahmed]

completely disagree with the said imam there. if debate is to seek truth, then all the more of it

i agree and disagree!

Debating is good i think BUT debating with these ppl is not! debating with ppl who have no intentions of changing their opinions is pointless

[Schiller]

i agree and disagree!

Debating is good i think BUT debating with these ppl is not! debating with ppl who have no intentions of changing their opinions is pointless

i agree ga, i didnt mean these people when i wrote that. that is why i said debating is good if you are seeking the truth, which these morons obviously
arent

[Geordie Ahmed]

i agree ga, i didnt mean these people when i wrote that. that is why i said debating is good if you are seeking the truth, which these morons obviously
arent

spot on old chap :19:
I think debating is very good, it helps one to seek knowledge and knowledge is a fantastic thing which is encouraged in Islam!

[Schiller]

spot on old chap :19:
I think debating is very good, it helps one to seek knowledge and knowledge is a fantastic thing which is encouraged in Islam!

and ga, a lot of the mullahs during a certain period, discouraged learning and questioning, that is why i am pro debate for truth and for knowledge.

[zushy_786]

, what did you think of the website :13:

[Schiller]

like dm, i knew what it would be about and didnt even bother to read it

ga, did you ever read that book then? storyof philosophy?

[Geordie Ahmed]

like dm, i knew what it would be about and didnt even bother to read it

ga, did you ever read that book then? storyof philosophy?

:21::21::21:

Nope, sorry sir :22::22:

Lately its been work, football and PP inbetween so i dont have the time! i will definately get round to it soon and il let you know what i think of it

[Schiller]

:21::21::21:

Nope, sorry sir :22::22:

Lately its been work, football and PP inbetween so i dont have the time! i will definately get round to it soon and il let you know what i think of it

absolute lost cause :91:

would like to see what you think of it when you get around to it or death, whicever comes first

[Hussain]

dont worry Taha bhai


Islam is Alah's religon and Allah can foremostly defend its religon
so sit back and enjoy while seeing Allah humiliate these enemies of Islam just like He did to the enemies before thewm

[Mercenary]

Taha, I have had a little look around that forum and its just spouting the same old rhetoric which has been disproved time and time again. Much like DM i wasted many months banging my head against brick walls like these until I realised that all I was doing was giving myself a headache because the wall certainly wasnt listening to reason!!

However if you personally have been confused by some of the topics they have brought up and would like a little clarification on those subjects, then feel free to start a thread on them (one-by-one) in the TP section and either myself or one of the other guys here will explain it to you in more detail.

[z10]

mercenery bhai can i pls ask what would b the correct refuttal to the commetns on prophet muhammed s.a.w and the nauzubillah claims of paedophilia?

[Mercenary]

mercenery bhai can i pls ask what would b the correct refuttal to the commetns on prophet muhammed s.a.w and the nauzubillah claims of paedophilia?

There are two schools of thought on this. One school claims that Aisha wasnt 9 years old at the time of marriage and the other school maintains that she was! I personally believe in the first assertion.

Hadith comes in all forms and with different levels of authenticity, not all Hadith agree with each other and often even contradict each other. In fact there are several narratives which contradict the assertion in several Hadith that Aisha was around 9 at the time of marriage. Such as those below...


According to Ibn Hisham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hisham)'s recension of Ibn Ishaq's (d. 768 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/768)) biography of Prophet Muhammad, the Sirat Rashul Allah, the earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Aisha accepted Islam before Umar ibn al-Khattab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar_ibn_al-Khattab). If true, then Aisha accepted Islam during the first few years of Islam. She could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she got married. Sira, Ibn Hisham, Vol. 1, Pg. 227


Tabari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabari) reports that when Abu Bakr planned on migrating to Ethiopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia) (8 years before Hijrah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijrah)), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Aisha was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Aisha as his son's wife. Mut`am refused because Abu Bakr had converted to Islam. If Aisha was only six years old at the time of her betrothal to Muhammad, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Ethiopia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopia). Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat, Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi, Pg 38


Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyyah) - the pre Islamic period. If Aisha was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH. Tarikh al-umam wa al-mamloo'k, Al-Tabari, Vol. 4, Pg. 50


According to Ibn Hajar, Fatima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Zahra) was five years older than Aisha. Fatima is reported to have been born when Muhammad was 35 years old. Muhammad migrated to Medina when he was 52, making Aisha 14 years old in 1 AH. Tamyeez al-Sahaabah, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalaniy, Vol. 4, Pg. 377
...basically its a case of either believing those Islamic sources which specifically mention her age as 9 years old or actually looking at conflicting sources which would place her age at 14 years old. Below is a link to a more detailed study...

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=375

[z10]

thankyou, merc bhai

[rwithclass]

Damn, what hyporcri'tes

[Hussain]

most of the ppl running the ppl are the ex muslims \

so its use less to argue wid the ones who have gone astray as Allah says

" they have eyes but they cant see they have ears but they cant hear"

[flipper]

May Allah protect us from all evil and guide us towards the straight path.

[Amir_rulez]

completely disagree with the said imam there. if debate is to seek truth, then all the more of it

Good point. Quran asks us on many occassions to think and use our brains and gain knowledge.
Gots to agree w/ GA as well. Debating a person who isn't willing to listen, doesn't really serve any purpose either.