24.30 [For Muslims Only]

[Momo]

A portion of An-Noor 30:
Tell the believing men to lower their gaze

A few might not be aware that it is expressed this explicitly in the Book itself, but I am sure all are aware of the undesirability of being 'vigilant' nevertheless.

So how religiously do you follow it during your work, commute, shopping, visiting relatives, etc?

this is not common knowledge even amongst muslims).]

[zimmz]

I am guilty though I am not those lafanga type. I'll improve myself InshAllah.

[Momo]

I am guilty though I am not those lafanga type.
I am sure you are not. :))
I'll improve myself InshAllah.
Inshaallah.

[Disco_Lemonade]

edit

[Disco_Lemonade]

its very confusing, i dont know what i wrote above :|

[Momo]

its very confusing, i dont know what i wrote above :|
:)
It's a *complex* issue.

[Disco_Lemonade]

indeed it is. so what do u ask in the opening post momo can u explain.

[ali110]

I am being guilty of doing this on my work (which now becomes norm for me).
When you spend decent chunk of your time at work (esp. Medical School) and working directly with students and residents (most of the time), it become really difficult.

[Momo]

indeed it is. so what do u ask in the opening post momo can u explain.
I mean the execution is complex (can be really complex at times). The theory is pretty clear, i.e., as far as I am concerned there's no ambiguity in it. It's valid, it's necessary to follow it, and there are real benefits in it.

Most of the times I am Alhamdulillah able to keep my gaze down. The times that I don't is entirely my fault and I immediately rebuke myself and be careful.

Except: Sometimes at work and in a classroom atmosphere. That part is tricky. You have to, you know, look at your colleagues/students etc in the eye when dealing with them and the human eye is designed to take in a lot of information from a wide range of area. Including areas they are not supposed to.

In the wider context, even that is my own fault. More careful people are very careful in selecting the atmosphere they will be putting themselves into, hence avoiding these complex situations altogether, I guess.

[hasanb]

This is quite a complicated issue, you havent properly explained the meaning of what you have quoted...i guess because its quite hard to interpret!

If you are in a work environment or even in a day to day situation dealing with any person, then you have to look at that person in the eye in order to show confidence and respect, this is a must and isnt something i will ever stop doing.

So then you have the issue of 'niyat'..kis niyat se are you looking at this person for example (are you checking her out), i think we've probably all been guilty of that on here at some point or the other...i was in fact kicked in the back of my knees once by my gf not too long ago for this very reason lol. I try my best not to after that :P

[12thMan]

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze

So how religiously do you follow it during your work, commute, shopping, visiting relatives, etc?There is not much in regular life and I don't visit my relatives much but I look at anyone I meet and hug the close relatives as it is usually after a while that I meet them(didn't happen when gorwing up as it was often visits and maybe because I was younger and didn't care) and I don't think I am stopping. Sometimes the hug is initatiated by the other person and I am not stopping them

[insaftak]

I am going with Zimmz on this one

[Disco_Lemonade]

Sometimes at work and in a classroom atmosphere. That part is tricky. You have to, you know, look at your colleagues/students etc in the eye when dealing with them and the human eye is designed to take in a lot of information from a wide range of area. Including areas they are not supposed to.
----
thats very true. sometimes we do things unintentionally.

my answer would be i dont follow it religiously. i would say i dont care, but i remain decent.

[kingusama92]

I try my best to follow it but honestly it's extremely tough especially in places where you have to interact with women.

I think as long as your heart is clean and your intention is clean you are fine.

[Momo]

This is quite a complicated issue, you havent properly explained the meaning of what you have quoted...i guess because its quite hard to interpret!
Okay, here goes:

Men are ordered to lower their gaze (and hence not check out females), and guard their private parts. In the next ayah women are ordered to lower their gaze and guard their private parts. Then the women are ordered not to show their ornaments and cover their bosoms and not to show their beauties to people other than a list (husband, sons, brothers, ... Allah has gone to the trouble of naming a long list).

Now in foreign countries (and even in Pakistan I dare say) more often than not you will find women who will not cover anything, and who will not lower their gaze (there go two security walls). So if you too don't/can't lower yours, it will mean that the solitary remaining security wall goes as well.

So then you have the issue of 'niyat'..kis niyat se are you looking at this person for example (are you checking her out), i think we've probably all been guilty of that on here at some point or the other...i was in fact kicked in the back of my knees once by my gf not too long ago for this very reason lol. I try my best not to after that :P
With all due respect, if you have no problems in going into a girlfriend/boyfriend situation, I am afraid you won't understand the discussion on this thread. I mean it is not about it being 'socially bad' to stare etc, but because it can leads to this very girlfriend- boyfriend thing which is not allowed to muslims.

[hasanb]

Okay, here goes:

Men are ordered to lower their gaze (and hence not check out females), and guard their private parts. In the next ayah women are ordered to lower their gaze and guard their private parts. Then the women are ordered not to show their ornaments and cover their bosoms and not to show their beauties to people other than a list (husband, sons, brothers, ... Allah has gone to the trouble of naming a long list).

Now in foreign countries (and even in Pakistan I dare say) more often than not you will find women who will not cover anything, and who will not lower their gaze (there go two security walls). So if you too don't/can't lower yours, it will mean that the solitary remaining security wall goes as well.


With all due respect, if you have no problems in going into a girlfriend/boyfriend situation, I am afraid you won't understand the discussion on this thread. I mean it is not about it being 'socially bad' to stare etc, but because it can leads to this very girlfriend- boyfriend thing which is not allowed to muslims.

My personal situation is something obviously only i can understand and I think its only fair we keep it to that.

Anyway so do you think this applies in a work situation or other social situations where clearly it is impossible to just keep your gaze lowered? Personally i still think it comes down to niyat.

[Disco_Lemonade]

More careful people are very careful in selecting the atmosphere they will be putting themselves into, hence avoiding these complex situations altogether, I guess.
most if not all of them avoid the situations completely and at some point alienate themselves from the others.. in return u get people taking offense of it.
do they runaway from the challenge?and is it ok to runaway from the challenge?i understand thats its their choice in the end.

[Momo]

most if not all of them avoid the situations completely and at some point alienate themselves from the others.. in return u get people taking offense of it.
do they runaway from the challenge?and is it ok to runaway from the challenge?i understand thats its their choice in the end.
I think some of them run away from the challenge while some stick to their guns.

Yes, it's all down to their own choice.

[Momo]

My personal situation is something obviously only i can understand and I think its only fair we keep it to that.
That is very true.

[12thMan]

My personal situation is something obviously only i can understand and I think its only fair we keep it to that.

Anyway so do you think this applies in a work situation or other social situations where clearly it is impossible to just keep your gaze lowered? Personally i still think it comes down to niyat.It is better in that situation to look at their face here and there. You can wander around but have to see them otherwise it will make the visitor uncomfortable. If you lower the gaze then atleast lower your head too while facing them otherwise it may be that you are looking at their body (if it is just the eyes you are lowering).

[Momo]

It is better in that situation to look at their face here and there. You can wander around but have to see them otherwise it will make the visitor uncomfortable. If you lower the gaze then atleast lower your head too while facing them otherwise it may be that you are looking at their body (if it is just the eyes you are lowering).
A very wise suggestion. :)

[Toony™®]

I automatically lower my gaze if it is a muslim girl, but not if they aren't...anyone else do that?

I also don't lower my gaze if they are married or at least 10 years older than me!

I think at a young age, i acted on the above prequisites.

[insaftak]

I automatically lower my gaze if it is a muslim girl, but not if they aren't...anyone else do that?

I also don't lower my gaze if they are married or at least 10 years older than me!

I think at a young age, i acted on the above prequisites.

I am guilty of this one too,

[zimmz]

I automatically lower my gaze if it is a muslim girl, but not if they aren't...anyone else do that?


I am more like this. I don't know why but when I see some covered ladies (they are mostly arabic, turkish etc in my area) I avoid seeing them in respect. By chance if I see them I say mashaAllah by heart because they look so cute and pure. I think it is mainly the Hijab which forces me to do so.

It is completely natural in my case!

[Toony™®]

I am more of any muslim girl philosophy barring relations... Iit is a respect thing but also, I was taught it (what momo is saying) from a young age.


I also have a deep respect for covered muslim women. I don't want them to feel uncomfortable.

As I have got older, i am more able to differentiate and interpret that statement. I also understand that women of other beliefs are brought up differently and may also misinterpret what I am doing!

[MIG]

Making eye contact for professional reasons is fine but giving the once over is not on. Islam or not.

Unfortunately, this is normal practice in the Middle East.

[pak4life]

Like many of you have mentioned sometimes it hard to avoid the first glance ie walking into a room etc.

There was a hadith from our prophet (pbuh) do not follow a glance with another, for you will be forgiven for the first, but not for the second. Totally agree there is no excuse for a second glance.

[DHONI183]

Excellent thread Momo:14:! PPers getting exposed here:P.

[Javelin]

It's a good job then that most of us are fortunate to be born with good hearing and don't have to rely on sign language and facial expressions to communicate with those less fortunate than us!