Which players deserve to be in the team!!

[Mercenary]

This thread isn't about bashing players who should be out of the team, this thread is about those players (with the squad) whom you genuinely think should have a spot in the limited overs teams. I'll start us off...

Shahid Afridi - A great bowler who isnt the fielder he once was but is still one of the best fielders in our team. His batting is a bit hit and miss but his revived bowling is enough to keep him in the team.

Umar Gul - Is coming off a fantastic World Cup, right now he's not in great form but he still deserves a place.

Fawad Alam - He's our best fielder and a real fighter with the bat, he deserves to play every game.

Mohammad Aamer - A total revelation, for me he's the Pakistani find of the noughties! It's still early days but if he can avoid injury and exhaustion he will be a firm fixture for a long time to come.

Abdul Razzaq - He bowls innocuous looking slow medium pace which looks easy to hit but when batsmen try they are getting undone. So far his new ball bowling has been an eye opener, whether he will get away with it against other teams is up for debate but I'd keep him around. Plus I've heard he can bat a bit too!

Nasir Jamshed - He's done nothing wrong, he's performed whenever he's got a chance and deserves a run in the team.

Saeed Ajmal - After Saqlain I never thought that Pakistan would ever regularly select a specialist spinner in limited overs cricket again. But Ajmal has made himself undroppable, this could just be because its his first season and he may be found out like Tanvir but until he is lets keep him around.

Umar Akmal - I havent seen him batting since the u19 World CUp but he's bludgeoned Aussie A bowlers in Australia and Sri Lanka A bowlers in Sri Lanka. I think he's done enough to deserve a run against international bowlers for this series and the CT.

Shoaib Malik - I know he's not a popular choice with many PPers but when he was batting at 3 Pakistan rarely collapsed. Now that wasn't because he is an Inzi or a Minadad because he's far from it. However what Malik brings to the table is that he keeps the scoreboard ticking and that takes off the pressure to score. Plus he's one of the best fielders in the side.

I've listed 9 players above that I think deserve to be playing every game, we should take that nucleus and build on it. If we do then we could end up with a very strong team, if we dont then we're not going anywhere.

[Mercenary]

If you're going to make a post then give reasons for the players you've chosen. If you post a shopping list then your post will be deleted.

[srh]

You forget Pakistan's best ODI batsman: Mohammad Yousuf

[McBoom]

Are we talking about ODIs, T20s, Tests or all of them?

[Mercenary]

You forget Pakistan's best ODI batsman: Mohammad Yousuf

It's not 2007 anymore!!

[Mercenary]

Are we talking about ODIs, T20s, Tests or all of them?

Well if you read the opening post...

This thread isn't about bashing players who should be out of the team, this thread is about those players (with the squad) whom you genuinely think should have a spot in the limited overs teams.

[naqlipathan]

This thread isn't about bashing players who should be out of the team, this thread is about those players (with the squad) whom you genuinely think should have a spot in the limited overs teams. I'll start us off...

Shahid Afridi - A great bowler who isnt the fielder he once was but is still one of the best fielders in our team. His batting is a bit hit and miss but his revived bowling is enough to keep him in the team.

Umar Gul - Is coming off a fantastic World Cup, right now he's not in great form but he still deserves a place.

Fawad Alam - He's our best fielder and a real fighter with the bat, he deserves to play every game.

Mohammad Aamer - A total revelation, for me he's the Pakistani find of the noughties! It's still early days but if he can avoid injury and exhaustion he will be a firm fixture for a long time to come.

Abdul Razzaq - He bowls innocuous looking slow medium pace which looks easy to hit but when batsmen try they are getting undone. So far his new ball bowling has been an eye opener, whether he will get away with it against other teams is up for debate but I'd keep him around. Plus I've heard he can bat a bit too!

Nasir Jamshed - He's done nothing wrong, he's performed whenever he's got a chance and deserves a run in the team.

Saeed Ajmal - After Saqlain I never thought that Pakistan would ever regularly select a specialist spinner in limited overs cricket again. But Ajmal has made himself undroppable, this could just be because its his first season and he may be found out like Tanvir but until he is lets keep him around.

Umar Akmal - I havent seen him batting since the u19 World CUp but he's bludgeoned Aussie A bowlers in Australia and Sri Lanka A bowlers in Sri Lanka. I think he's done enough to deserve a run against international bowlers for this series and the CT.

Shoaib Malik - I know he's not a popular choice with many PPers but when he was batting at 3 Pakistan rarely collapsed. Now that wasn't because he is an Inzi or a Minadad because he's far from it. However what Malik brings to the table is that he keeps the scoreboard ticking and that takes off the pressure to score. Plus he's one of the best fielders in the side.

I've listed 9 players above that I think deserve to be playing every game, we should take that nucleus and build on it. If we do then we could end up with a very strong team, if we dont then we're not going anywhere.
i agree about malik, but only in ODI@s. in tests he should not be an automatic selection. whenever people give opinions about players they should tell what format they are talking about. it is players like malik that show us how different ODI and test cricket actually is.

my list for ODI's will be:

1) Afridi- all round capabilities- great bowler, good fielder and batting showing signs of maturity

2) Malik- good ODI player ONLY AT no 3 or no 4, anything above that, he cant play because of the new ball, anything below that, he is not talented enough to handle because of failure to absorb pressure and play a long innings under pressure.

3) Yousuf- average of 43, decent ODI performance against the best bowling sides- Australia and SA. un-droppable and irreplacable.

4) Fawad Alam- fighter who can probably bat at any position, tremendous domestic reputation which can only materialise at international level if he is given fair chances

5) Ajmal- good find, consistent and does his job which is to pick up 1 or 2 wickets and contain the batsmen

6) aamer- has bowled with a big heart, can swing the ball both ways and is quick

7) Gul- very good with the old ball, still quicker than most pakistani bowlers and more fit than most bowlers too.

i dont want to comment about umar akmal or nasir jamshed because we need to see more of them to judge whether they should be automatic ODI selections

[cricwiz]

It's not 2007 anymore!!

Then why are you defending Malik's previous heroics in Woolmer/Inzi era. He can be, as you say a good No. 3 but his current form (especially his dip in form after losing captaincy, doesn't grant him his place)

And I tend to differ a bit more about Malik's success at No. 3 spot. We have already seen deficiencies of Malik against swinging ball. You must realize that No. 3 has to come in early 50% of the time when one the openers fall early. In Pakistan's case this percentage is even higher I presume. So how would he survive the swinging ball 50% of the time???

Considering current form of Malik, he should not be near the Pakistan side. In future he may work his way back into Pakistani team after proving he's worth it in domestic cricket.

Remember, he is no more an all-rounder. He bowls very rarely and for me he is a flat track bully, who will always struggle against swinging/seaming/bouncy balls.

We have a perfect No. 3 in Fawad Alam. He is a guy who has a heavy price tag assosiated for his wicket. And No. 3 is always such a batsman's place who doesnt give his wicket away easily.

Even Afridi is doing pretty well at No. 3. So no need to experiment as such...

[Xohaib]

Just knee jerk reactions,all will be good.
Its good that we are playing in swinging conditions,no we can see who is good and who isnt.
I know younis will drop misbah or malik,if they dont perform.

[AZ]

Malik is good enough as no.3 in Pakistani, non-challenging conditions...on a pitch that is doing a bit, he looks quite helpless

[abc_to_xyz]

1. Salman Butt: Our best opener...
2. Shahid Afridi: Our best spinner...
3. Mohammad Asif: Our best bowler...
4. Fawad Alam: A real hard-worker...
5. Nasir Jamshed: A hard-hitting opener..
6. Razzaq: A decent all-rounder...

Keep in mind that Gul, Younis, Malik, Misbah, Yousuf, Ajmal, Aamer are not automatic choices for ODIs..

[Xohaib]

It wasn't the pitch,everyone struggles on seaming pitch
remember last time what happened to srilanka,and to india in karachi.
Just that we don't have a good seam bowler like asif.

[Juggernaut]

1. Salman Butt: Our best opener...
2. Shahid Afridi: Our best spinner...
3. Mohammad Asif: Our best bowler...
4. Fawad Alam: A real hard-worker...
5. Nasir Jamshed: A hard-hitting opener..
6. Razzaq: A decent all-rounder...

Keep in mind that Gul, Younis, Malik, Misbah, Yousuf, Ajmal, Aamer are not automatic choices for ODIs..

You never seem to surprise me with you're ridiculous comments but here you've out done yourself

[Xohaib]

1. Salman Butt: Our best opener...
2. Shahid Afridi: Our best spinner...
3. Mohammad Asif: Our best bowler...
4. Fawad Alam: A real hard-worker...
5. Nasir Jamshed: A hard-hitting opener..
6. Razzaq: A decent all-rounder...

Keep in mind that Gul, Younis, Malik, Misbah, Yousuf, Ajmal, Aamer are not automatic choices for ODIs..
Your signature says it all :14: :14: :inti

[Afridi_Fan]

All I can think of is

Shahid Afridi: he is probably our best bowler and on evidence of his last 3 innings in a Pakistani shirt, our best and most confident batsman.

Umar Akmal: The guy just smashed the Aussies and SL A team recently, he should be in the side for his heroics.

Fawad Alam: Doesnt want any reasons for me.

After that I dont know who the other 8 will be.

[Mercenary]

Then why are you defending Malik's previous heroics in Woolmer/Inzi era. He can be, as you say a good No. 3 but his current form (especially his dip in form after losing captaincy, doesn't grant him his place)

I'd like to see how Yousuf would fare if he was constantly being shifted all over the batting order. Let's look at both players last 30 ODI inns vs test quality opposition (excl BD).

Batting positions - Malik has batted in 5 different positions including opening and 4-7. Yousuf on the other hand has only batted 3 games at number 5 with all the other games coming at his favoured number 4 position. So surely Yousuf who has been given a stable batting position should be outscoring Malik by a long way?

Batting Avg and fifties/centuries - Yousuf (47) averages 4 runs more than Malik (43) over their last 30 innings despite having a stable batting position and being a specialist batsman. Both players have 8 fifties whilst Yousuf has 2 centuires and Malik only has 1. Yousuf has been in the form of his life whilst Malik has been struggling yet Malik only trails Yousuf by 4 runs and 1 century.

Batting strike rate - Malik (83%) scored his runs 8% faster than Yousuf (75%) did. Limited overs cricket is about scoring fast, if you have two batsmen both hovering either side of a 45 run average and one is scoring nearly 10% faster than the other then it's a no brainer which batsman is more useful.

Fielding - After Fawad, Malik is our best fielder. Malik has contributed to 22 dismissals (catches, runouts) when fielding, in the same sample used above Yousuf has 2 dismissals to Maliks 22!! Malik has been over 10 times the fielder Yousuf will ever be!

Bowling - Yousuf doesnt bowl and Malik doesnt bowl as regularly as he used to but he has still taken 9 wickets in the sample above which is 9 more than Yousuf will ever contribute. 9 wickets plus 22 dismissals is 31 dismissals by Malik vs 2 by Yousuf.

Conclusion - Over their last 30 inns Malik and Yousuf have cancelled each other out as batsmen. However Malik's overall contribution to the team of 31 dismissals to Yousufs 2 dismissals makes him over 15 times as valuable in the field. Yousuf has been given a favoured position and role in the team where he gets to bat where he wants but despite that he's not doing anything to put himself head and shoulders above Malik. If there's only one position available then Malik should take it because if you add the runs he saves in the field and the dismissals he contributes to, then in tight matches he would push us over the edge whereas Yousuf's fielding would drag us down!!

[srh]

Merc you made a very good case. Congrats.

Btw, you said Malik is second best fielder after Fawad. How do you reach this conclusion? I thought Afridi was the best fielder followed by Malik and then Fawad.

[salman24]

The only other player that has to play is Moyo. The reason is simple. He is our best ODI batsman and his record with an average of 43+ proves it. He needs to be there and his few performances in tests show that he is still class. It will take him time to adjust but he is a certainty in the side. The other player is Yk who gets a place by default being the captain.
I would try both Nasir and Nazir.

[naqlipathan]

I'd like to see how Yousuf would fare if he was constantly being shifted all over the batting order. Let's look at both players last 30 ODI inns vs test quality opposition (excl BD).

Batting positions - Malik has batted in 5 different positions including opening and 4-7. Yousuf on the other hand has only batted 3 games at number 5 with all the other games coming at his favoured number 4 position. So surely Yousuf who has been given a stable batting position should be outscoring Malik by a long way?

Batting Avg and fifties/centuries - Yousuf (47) averages 4 runs more than Malik (43) over their last 30 innings despite having a stable batting position and being a specialist batsman. Both players have 8 fifties whilst Yousuf has 2 centuires and Malik only has 1. Yousuf has been in the form of his life whilst Malik has been struggling yet Malik only trails Yousuf by 4 runs and 1 century.

Batting strike rate - Malik (83%) scored his runs 8% faster than Yousuf (75%) did. Limited overs cricket is about scoring fast, if you have two batsmen both hovering either side of a 45 run average and one is scoring nearly 10% faster than the other then it's a no brainer which batsman is more useful.

Fielding - After Fawad, Malik is our best fielder. Malik has contributed to 22 dismissals (catches, runouts) when fielding, in the same sample used above Yousuf has 2 dismissals to Maliks 22!! Malik has been over 10 times the fielder Yousuf will ever be!

Bowling - Yousuf doesnt bowl and Malik doesnt bowl as regularly as he used to but he has still taken 9 wickets in the sample above which is 9 more than Yousuf will ever contribute. 9 wickets plus 22 dismissals is 31 dismissals by Malik vs 2 by Yousuf.

Conclusion - Over their last 30 inns Malik and Yousuf have cancelled each other out as batsmen. However Malik's overall contribution to the team of 31 dismissals to Yousufs 2 dismissals makes him over 15 times as valuable in the field. Yousuf has been given a favoured position and role in the team where he gets to bat where he wants but despite that he's not doing anything to put himself head and shoulders above Malik. If there's only one position available then Malik should take it because if you add the runs he saves in the field and the dismissals he contributes to, then in tight matches he would push us over the edge whereas Yousuf's fielding would drag us down!!
what youre not taking into account is that malik does not have a set role because he has shown weaknesses in every role. he started as a tailender and an offspinner, he only developed his batting afterwards but when you start like that, you can never develop it like yousuf's batting. malik is a keen learner, but not a great "doer".

you cant start learning batting at 20 and then expect to be better than someone like yousuf, who was always a very good batsman.

thats why i said, malik is a gap-filler, someone who can perform a variety of roles from fielding to bowling spin to opening to batting in the middle order as the backbone of the team, but he does not perform any one role so well that he should in the team because of that role. even though that average of 41 at no 3 is enviable, one would imagine he will not succeed against the new ball if he is asked to perform that role now, on current form.

a jack of all trades perhaps, but a master of none.

[Dubawi]

I respect what Shoaib Malik has done in past in Woolmer's era, but unfortunately we cant live in the past and have to move foward.

Shoaib Malik's recent form isn't good enough to earn him an automatic place in playing XL with so much competition around.

[Mercenary]

Merc you made a very good case. Congrats.

Btw, you said Malik is second best fielder after Fawad. How do you reach this conclusion? I thought Afridi was the best fielder followed by Malik and then Fawad.

Observation and personal opinion. Fawad is the best we have, next is Nazir then Malik.

Afridi used ot be great but hasnt been as lithe as he used to be, maybe age is catching up but he's still a fantastic fielder.

[saeed-sohail]

Merc man these stats mean nothing if you don't win games for your team,If malik has been that great in his last 30 games then how many games has he won for his team with a major performance?

[iZeeshan]

I really don't see a spot for Yousuf or Misbah. These players just bog down the running rate and create pressure on other batsmen.

Younus Khan is a great captain and that's the only thing keeping him in the ODI team, but if it was up to me, I'd take him out too.

But I think you have been a little harsh on Kamran Akmal. He's not a lights-out keeper, but his batting is still more than useful. He allows us to play an extra middle order batsman, i.e Fawad or Umar Akmal.

So yeah, I'd add, Younus and Akmal to that list.

In that case, you get this lineup:

Nasir Jamshed, Kamran Akmal, Shahid Afridi, Younus Khan, Fawad Alam, Shoaib Malik, Umar Akmal, Abdul Razzaq, Umar Gul, Mohammad Aamer, Saeed Ajmal

I must say, I like that team a lot.

[Wassixpakistani]

Good Thread Merc Bhai , I have got some .

Imran Nazir- For T20s , he's the opener we got . Average at ODIs but still deserves it.

Shahzaib Hasan- Good hitter , tailor-made for T20s but still has yet to prove at his worth at ODIs.

Ahmed Shehzad- A very young promising cricketer , A 17-year old who played quite well against the Aussies on his ODI debut series for his age and that too when most of the seniors were struggling . Has enough talent to become a great batsman for pakistan in ODIs . Although he needs to work harder but no doubt he deserves another chance at ODIs to prove his worth.

Nasir Jamshed - He's also like Ahmed Shehzad a young promising cricketer who has played a few ODIs . His 50s against both India and Bangladesh showed how much potential he has . Definitely deserves to be in the team .

Shahid Afridi- A great performer with the bat,ball and fielding as well.Can win his team a match single-handed.

Kamran Akmal - He might be a butter fingers with the gloves on but when he has a bat in the hand , he changes from a zero to a hero . He deserves it.

Mohammad Yousuf- A Class Act , He's the one whose keeping our sorry excuse of a Middle order together.No question about his deserving.

Younis khan- Hey , he's the captain and also a damn good one :D.

Fawad Alam- A legend in making ;-)

Abdul Razzaq- Without him , the team looks like a graveyard.

Mohammad Talha- Tall height,has pace,has stamina and lets not forget the Bouncers and Yorkers.Deserves it

Mohammad Amir- A great performer , can make the ball talk and at pace too.Deserves it.

Umar Gul- A great death bowler , Sometimes can be inconsistent but still a great performer for Pakistan.

Saeed Ajmal- Pakistan were missing a good Specialist Off-spinner for some years now and he's fit that role quite nicely.

[saeed-sohail]

Spot on zeeshan I posted this team a week ago.To me misbah has not developed in that finisher role that he promised after T20 WC 07 and he is at that age where one can not expect him to suddenly start rotating the strike and hit a boundary with trying to launch it.
Yousaf is a batsman I love but to me he is very lucky to walk back into the team after his flirts with ICL and should be told in no uncertain terms that he will only feature in test cricket as we need to blood in akmals and Sheriars in limited overs game so they are ready in 2/3 years to take over from 2 Ys.
Malik is another player who should play we have invested a long time in and he should be winning games for us.He needs to go back to middle order and try to get his confidence back.
We need at least one regular opener in ODIs and I would go with Nasir and give him 8/10 matches to show what he is about.

[Zaz]

This thread isn't about bashing players who should be out of the team, this thread is about those players (with the squad) whom you genuinely think should have a spot in the limited overs teams. I'll start us off...

Shahid Afridi - A great bowler who isnt the fielder he once was but is still one of the best fielders in our team. His batting is a bit hit and miss but his revived bowling is enough to keep him in the team.

Umar Gul - Is coming off a fantastic World Cup, right now he's not in great form but he still deserves a place.

Fawad Alam - He's our best fielder and a real fighter with the bat, he deserves to play every game.

Mohammad Aamer - A total revelation, for me he's the Pakistani find of the noughties! It's still early days but if he can avoid injury and exhaustion he will be a firm fixture for a long time to come.

Abdul Razzaq - He bowls innocuous looking slow medium pace which looks easy to hit but when batsmen try they are getting undone. So far his new ball bowling has been an eye opener, whether he will get away with it against other teams is up for debate but I'd keep him around. Plus I've heard he can bat a bit too!

Nasir Jamshed - He's done nothing wrong, he's performed whenever he's got a chance and deserves a run in the team.

Saeed Ajmal - After Saqlain I never thought that Pakistan would ever regularly select a specialist spinner in limited overs cricket again. But Ajmal has made himself undroppable, this could just be because its his first season and he may be found out like Tanvir but until he is lets keep him around.

Umar Akmal - I havent seen him batting since the u19 World CUp but he's bludgeoned Aussie A bowlers in Australia and Sri Lanka A bowlers in Sri Lanka. I think he's done enough to deserve a run against international bowlers for this series and the CT.

Shoaib Malik - I know he's not a popular choice with many PPers but when he was batting at 3 Pakistan rarely collapsed. Now that wasn't because he is an Inzi or a Minadad because he's far from it. However what Malik brings to the table is that he keeps the scoreboard ticking and that takes off the pressure to score. Plus he's one of the best fielders in the side.

I've listed 9 players above that I think deserve to be playing every game, we should take that nucleus and build on it. If we do then we could end up with a very strong team, if we dont then we're not going anywhere.

I agree with all above but not malik

Hes been poor all round since hes been removed from captaincy, he pretty much failed in aus odi series and then was part of the regular collapse in sri lanka

Hes now being accomodated as opener since mnmgt wont drop him due to his seniority, with players like nazir, akmal and jamshed on bench its ajoke

He also hardly bowls anymore, not his fault but captain has no faith-says something.....time to "rest"mate

[zulfiqar]

This thread is being centered about Shoaib Malik and rightly so, as both him and Misbah are coming under the scanner lately.

I've been ranting on at PP about Malik ever since his 1-down position got robbed from him for NO particular reason at all besides accommodating YK from his useless khan days! Malik's best batting position is at #3 and he is basically an automatic choice as 1-down, followed by MoYo. I agree with merc that Yousuf is a liability in the field but we simply can't ignore his batting since he's come off a long run. I was furious over how in this 1st ODI vs SL he was made to look like a looser by a gentle medium-pacer 3 or 4 times by getting beaten and then finally being put out of his misery. But still, we must persist. Notice in the comparison between Malik/MoYo how good their statistics sound as batsmen! Amazing really... Malik/Moyo stay.

I agree with the entire list except for Umar Akmal and Nasir Jamshed. With Razzaq in the side as a lower order hitter, where do we have room for Umar Akmal? If we want Nasir Jamshed, why not Salman Butt whose form in ODIs has not been that bad at all of late? It's funny how our captain does not have popular vote... can you imagine how bad that is for the team as a whole? We do not trust the leader of the team! YK better start playing well because I don't think he will be sacked before the WC. Our bowling isn't super but it's not that bad. Our batting order right now is actually pretty awesome; it's just that they aren't clicking.

[the_game]

Merc, we need to get past Mr. kathak-dance phateechar Malik. He is an embarrassment when the balls swings around even a bit, and against good short-pitched bowling as well. Best to try a specialist batsman instead, and not a bits-and-pieces cricketer like him at number 3 (Remember, his record at number 3 is highly inflated by subcontinental patta pitches, and we are looking for a long term solution here for all sorts of conditions). Ahmed Shehzad I felt had good temperament and should be persisted with, to partner Nasir Jamshed. Yousuf is class and I wouldn't drop him atleast for another year or two (yes, I saw him field yesterday, I would still take Yousuf's batting alone over Malik's batting, bowling and fielding combined).

[undisputed]

Imran Nazir

because he is fearless.. he will smack any bowler around the park and even bring new fans to cricket because of his exciting style

[Mercenary]

Merc man these stats mean nothing if you don't win games for your team,If malik has been that great in his last 30 games then how many games has he won for his team with a major performance?

That would only work if Malik had a stable batting position where he felt most comfortable, just like Yousuf gets. Have we ever seen Yousuf step out of his comfort zone for the good of the team and drop down to 6/7 or step up to open the innings? Yousuf knows at number 4 he wont have to face the new ball and will mainly get to play against spinners and the older ball so he can plunder his runs in the safety zone.

If you look at Malik at his favourite spots (3 and 4) and Yousuf at his favourite spots (4 and 5) then the comparison makes sense.

If you look at ODIs where both players have scored 50+ and batted at their favourite slots then Maliks inns have helped Pakistan win 86% of those games whilst Yousufs inns have helped Pakistan win only 52% of the games where he scored 50+ in his favourite slots!!

Yet Malik haters will always be Malik haters regardless.

How many batsmen averaging 46 at a strike rate of 82 over their last 29 games batting at 3 and 4 would then agree (to help out another team mate) to give up their favoured position and step up to open the innings??

Yousuf has never done that, despite the fact we've been struggling for regular openers since Anwar and Sohail. We've been awash with middle order bats for years but we have no quality openers.

Did Yousuf, Younis or Inzi put their hands up and say tell you what I'm in good form, I'll open the innings??

No they didnt because they're only worried about their position, no doubt even in this ODI today it was Malik who stepped up to open because Misbah, Younis, and Yousuf were not budging!!

[pakistani pride]

Merc, I agree with your opening post but malik ATM does not deserve a place !
When he was batting at number 3 he was the COMPLETE ODI PLAYER.
He was scoring runs, taking wickets and a good fielder.

Now he looks lost and needs a rest !

[Mercenary]

Merc, I agree with your opening post but malik ATM does not deserve a place !
When he was batting at number 3 he was the COMPLETE ODI PLAYER.
He was scoring runs, taking wickets and a good fielder.

Now he looks lost and needs a rest !

I think he should be given the number 4 slot and told that he will be playing there for the next 2 or 3 series and that he has to bowl a minimum of 5 overs per game. At number 4 he'll be shielded from the new ball like MoYo and Misbah are.

Mo Irfan said that when he was bowling with a new ball to MoYo in the NCA nets, MoYo asked for it to be changed with an old ball because the new ball was moving too much for him!!

No Pakistani batsman plays the new ball well and no batsman will play well if he's an international batting order gypsy!!

[Wassixpakistani]

Mo Irfan said that when he was bowling with a new ball to MoYo in the NCA nets, MoYo asked for it to be changed with an old ball because the new ball was moving too much for him!!


Oh my...........Yousuf said that ;/ , I find it hard to believe that such a class act would say something like that.

You are telling the truth are you merc :13: ?

[saeed-sohail]

Well I agree with you on Yousaf and he needs to be sidelined from limited overs formats.I know ppl will bring his numbers up but forget the whole picture.
In one day games averages need to be put in context say a batsman scores 100 on a flat pitch and team scores 300 and another batsman scores 60 whilst chasing 170 now to me that 60 is worth more for the team then 100 on a flat deck.
Same goes for malik his stats might be good but his overall impact on the games needs to be looked at.I would not drop him from ODI team just yet but misbah and yousaf need a REST.

[Mercenary]

Oh my...........Yousuf said that ;/ , I find it hard to believe that such a class act would say something like that.

You are telling the truth are you merc :13: ?

That's what Irfan told me, he (and others) said most Pakistani batsmen dont practise with the new ball in the nets. They prefer batting with older balls which explains why they collapse against the new ball in actual games.

[Geordie Ahmed]

Superb stats from Merc

Malik gets plenty of stick because people just dont like him - they ignore that he is a fine cricketer and has improved a lot. Whilst you could argue whether he should be in the Test side there is no doubt that he is a fine ODI player

His batting is good when is in a settled position and thats what he needs to be given - the difference in average between him and MoYo is more than made up with his bowling/fielding which is far far superior to MoYo's

[mali9]

This thread isn't about bashing players who should be out of the team, this thread is about those players (with the squad) whom you genuinely think should have a spot in the limited overs teams. I'll start us off...

Shahid Afridi - A great bowler who isnt the fielder he once was but is still one of the best fielders in our team. His batting is a bit hit and miss but his revived bowling is enough to keep him in the team.

Umar Gul - Is coming off a fantastic World Cup, right now he's not in great form but he still deserves a place.

Fawad Alam - He's our best fielder and a real fighter with the bat, he deserves to play every game.

Mohammad Aamer - A total revelation, for me he's the Pakistani find of the noughties! It's still early days but if he can avoid injury and exhaustion he will be a firm fixture for a long time to come.

Abdul Razzaq - He bowls innocuous looking slow medium pace which looks easy to hit but when batsmen try they are getting undone. So far his new ball bowling has been an eye opener, whether he will get away with it against other teams is up for debate but I'd keep him around. Plus I've heard he can bat a bit too!

Nasir Jamshed - He's done nothing wrong, he's performed whenever he's got a chance and deserves a run in the team.

Saeed Ajmal - After Saqlain I never thought that Pakistan would ever regularly select a specialist spinner in limited overs cricket again. But Ajmal has made himself undroppable, this could just be because its his first season and he may be found out like Tanvir but until he is lets keep him around.

Umar Akmal - I havent seen him batting since the u19 World CUp but he's bludgeoned Aussie A bowlers in Australia and Sri Lanka A bowlers in Sri Lanka. I think he's done enough to deserve a run against international bowlers for this series and the CT.

Shoaib Malik - I know he's not a popular choice with many PPers but when he was batting at 3 Pakistan rarely collapsed. Now that wasn't because he is an Inzi or a Minadad because he's far from it. However what Malik brings to the table is that he keeps the scoreboard ticking and that takes off the pressure to score. Plus he's one of the best fielders in the side.

I've listed 9 players above that I think deserve to be playing every game, we should take that nucleus and build on it. If we do then we could end up with a very strong team, if we dont then we're not going anywhere.

i have no abjections i think this is just the right call you made its correct all of these players desreve to be in the team, i would consider mohammed asif aswell since its his rebirth in intrnational cricket. so boys give him a chance we gave too many to choaib akhtar lets give this guy a second chance. salman well i was the biggest fan at one stage but since we had two tornaments he is done absolutly nothing. series against ausis he failed t20 he failed in test srilanka he failed in home and even now he failed when he was sent in first test. so nasir jamshed shuld'nt have been dropped earlier they made big big mistake by dropping him earlier when he was in form, however he still definatly deserve another chance.

[mali9]

Superb stats from Merc

Malik gets plenty of stick because people just dont like him - they ignore that he is a fine cricketer and has improved a lot. Whilst you could argue whether he should be in the Test side there is no doubt that he is a fine ODI player

His batting is good when is in a settled position and thats what he needs to be given - the difference in average between him and MoYo is more than made up with his bowling/fielding which is far far superior to MoYo's

true bro he is very talented player probable best to be honest i think he is the leading run scorer in tests so i dont knw why people are soo jelous about him, i think siyali baghat like him that might be the reason. :13: :13:

[moz]

MERCENARY, you are right about Malik at three, Yousuf bats in the ultimate position, he is wrapped in cotton wool. Both should be part of the ODI team.

[Genghis]

I really don't see a spot for Yousuf or Misbah. These players just bog down the running rate and create pressure on other batsmen.

Younus Khan is a great captain and that's the only thing keeping him in the ODI team, but if it was up to me, I'd take him out too.

But I think you have been a little harsh on Kamran Akmal. He's not a lights-out keeper, but his batting is still more than useful. He allows us to play an extra middle order batsman, i.e Fawad or Umar Akmal.

So yeah, I'd add, Younus and Akmal to that list.

In that case, you get this lineup:

Nasir Jamshed, Kamran Akmal, Shahid Afridi, Younus Khan, Fawad Alam, Shoaib Malik, Umar Akmal, Abdul Razzaq, Umar Gul, Mohammad Aamer, Saeed Ajmal

I must say, I like that team a lot.
iZeeshan, I think you've got the line up spot on here. This is what the line up for the next match and the rest of the series should be.

I agree with the majority that Shoaib Malik deserves to be in the ODI and T20 squad as he is one of our best fielders and is a fighter with the bat. The only position that Yousuf should be competing against is Younis', but Younis being the captain and a better runner between the wickets, gets the nod from me.

Merc's list is spot on with Kamran on the fringes I would say.

[Blistering Barnacle]

Merc,

Nice analysis.

It would be interesting to see how Malik and Yousuf have compared on the ICC batsmen's rankings for ODIs, as your analysis would suggest that they should be very close. I don't think that's the case though.

One other thing -

Why compare the stats of these two particular players?

Sounds like they're both doing a good job.

I wonder how their stats compare to YK, Misbah, Alam and other players who've played at 3-7.

[pak-admirer]

Malik is so unconvincing as a batsman. I fail to see that so much people think he's a good batsman. His footwork against the seam/swing is so indecisive and in general he does not have good balance. He barely plays nice and fluent strokes. All he does is take singles and twos, not enough boundaries. He is no all-rounder, does not bowl and he's only good attribute is fielding and most of all his batting is merely handy, not what you want from a senior middle-order batsman. Will he be good in the long run for Pak?

I prefer Yousuf over him any day. Pakistan needs talented fluent strokemakers and aggressive/explosive batsmen instead of the likes of these batsmen who are just nudgers and hard-workers (Misbah and Malik). It would be much better for the game. I rather see the Sachin's, Yuvraj's, Nazir's, Yousuf's than the likes of Malik's and Misbah's.

[Mercenary]

Malik is so unconvincing as a batsman. I fail to see that so much people think he's a good batsman. His footwork against the seam/swing is so indecisive and in general he does not have good balance. He barely plays nice and fluent strokes. All he does is take singles and twos, not enough boundaries. He is no all-rounder, does not bowl and he's only good attribute is fielding and most of all his batting is merely handy, not what you want from a senior middle-order batsman. Will he be good in the long run for Pak?

I prefer Yousuf over him any day. Pakistan needs talented fluent strokemakers and aggressive/explosive batsmen instead of the likes of these batsmen who are just nudgers and hard-workers (Misbah and Malik). It would be much better for the game. I rather see the Sachin's, Yuvraj's, Nazir's, Yousuf's than the likes of Malik's and Misbah's.

Let's spend the next 30 games playing Yousuf as an opener, at 3 and down at 6 and 7. Lets see how graceful he looks against the new ball which he's hid from his whole career. I remember I wrote to Woolmer saying MoYo's best average was at 3 and that's where he should play and Woolmer replied saying he agreed but couldnt always get his way. Woolmer and Inzi wanted Yousuf to bat at 3 but he wouldnt which is why Malik and Younis had to!!

During the T20 World Cup when someone asked Younis why he doesnt open the batting, his reply was why me? Why should I open? Why not Misbah or someone else! That just goes to show the mentality of these 'middle order giants' who will end up looking like Malik does against the moving ball and thats why they wont budge from their spots!

[Mercenary]

It would be interesting to see how Malik and Yousuf have compared on the ICC batsmen's rankings for ODIs, as your analysis would suggest that they should be very close. I don't think that's the case though.

One other thing -

Why compare the stats of these two particular players?

Well I left Malik in and sent MoYo out and posters wanted to know why, so I was just showing their relative overall contributions to the team.

MoYo is the highest Pak batsman in the ODI rankings at number 13, Malik is the second highest at number 17. 4 runs seperate them in the averages and 3 people seperate them on the ODI rankings.

There's not really much in it whichever way you look at it. If MoYo has to play and he's such a graceful and amazing batsman then why dont we use him to open instead of players like Malik who clearly arent in MoYo's class.

If we want makeshift openers then why not the two best batsmen in the team?

[pak-admirer]

Let's spend the next 30 games playing Yousuf as an opener, at 3 and down at 6 and 7. Lets see how graceful he looks against the new ball which he's hid from his whole career. I remember I wrote to Woolmer saying MoYo's best average was at 3 and that's where he should play and Woolmer replied saying he agreed but couldnt always get his way. Woolmer and Inzi wanted Yousuf to bat at 3 but he wouldnt which is why Malik and Younis had to!!

During the T20 World Cup when someone asked Younis why he doesnt open the batting, his reply was why me? Why should I open? Why not Misbah or someone else! That just goes to show the mentality of these 'middle order giants' who will end up looking like Malik does against the moving ball and thats why they wont budge from their spots!


You have a point if it's true. But I wouldn't drop Yousuf over Malik. Yousuf has proven that his the best odi bastman for Pakistan. He might not be a good opener becuase he suspect against the moving ball like the rest (Akmal, Malik, YK, Misbah), but compare his overall average to Malik's in both of their respective 'best positions', MY is better.

Malik is merely handy batsman even is his normal position. His range of shots are limited. Yet people talk of him as best batsman in the team. I guess people like him for his fielding and the fact that he could rotate the strike which is mostly what he does (e.g. T20 WC - His SR was under a 100 and i think he was the one that did not hit a six from the frontline batsman).

Fair enough if you think he should be in the team, but there's no doubt his place in the team is questionable.

[Saqlain_doosra]

Its very easy to manipulate stats to make look some players better then they actually are. Why not use bench mark of 20 ODI or 50 ODI or maybe 10. How about playing in different conditions ? About Malik contributing with ball its nothing more then any part timer in the world, infect Younus part timer would be more effective at present. It wasn't too long ago when Merc manipulated stats to make Malik look better bowler.

Malik is good ODI batsman but is he really Yousuf class? I say never was and never will.

[Mercenary]

Yousuf has proven that his the best odi bastman for Pakistan. He might not be a good opener becuase he suspect against the moving ball like the rest (Akmal, Malik, YK, Misbah), but compare his overall average to Malik's in both of their respective 'best positions', MY is better.

Ok Malik started out as a bowler and was given a run as a batsman at 3 from 2004. So Malik at 3 from 2004 and MoYo at 4.

Against test quality opposition (excl BD) MoYo at 4 averages 37.93 at a strike rate of 72.3 whilst Malik at 3 averages 45.77 at a strike rate of 80.4

At their favoured psoitions MoYo scores 50 every 4.5 games and Malik scores fifty every 2.6 games!!

The sample size isnt big enough (26 inns for Malik versus 204 inns for MoYo) but it does show that when Malik has been given a chance at his favoured position he has excelled.

MoYo doesnt even average 39 at his favoured position, contrast that to Inzi who averages around 41 at both 4 and 5 (versus test quality oppositions minus BD).

MoYo is a batsman who looks good and was very good but not someone who has been an amazing or out of this world batsman. Malik isnt an out of this world batsman either but when he gets to bat where he's comfortable then he excels beyond his limited ability.

It's easy to bash guys like Malik who step up to open the innings and make it obvious how rubbish they are against the new ball but even as an opener (against the same quality of opposition) Malik has averaged 37.33 at a strike rate of 74.8

Not bad for someone who looks totally at sea when opening and way out of his depth. MoYo on the other hand is wrapped up at number 4 and safe from the new ball and how inept it would make him look. Yet we all malign the person who steps out of his comfort zone for the good of the team and laud the person who wont budge despite being the 'best batsman' in the team!

[Mercenary]

Its very easy to manipulate stats to make look some players better then they actually are. Why not use bench mark of 20 ODI or 50 ODI or maybe 10. How about playing in different conditions ? About Malik contributing with ball its nothing more then any part timer in the world, infect Younus part timer would be more effective at present. It wasn't too long ago when Merc manipulated stats to make Malik look better bowler.

Malik is good ODI batsman but is he really Yousuf class? I say never was and never will.

Even if you take the stats totally out of the equation, when has Yousuf ever stepped up to say I'll open the innings. When has he said our openers are no good and guys like Malik arent good enough to open, so I Yousuf the best batsman in the team will save Pakistan.

MoYo never has and never will, he's happy to sit around at number 4 collapsing with the rest on bad days and scoring when the going is good. At least until the next T20 league flashes some green in front of his face and then he'll be off again!!

[naqlipathan]

why are people comparing malik with yousuf?

yousuf is a proper test batsman. even at ODI level look his average against the likes of australia and south africa. he has performed consistently in ODIs and Tests.

malik as i said earlier is an ad hoc gap filler, he is not good enough for one particular role. if he was so good at no 3 why did they management decide to demote him from that number? it was because in tests he was struggling and in ODI's against good sides he was struggling too.

[cricwiz]

Even if you take the stats totally out of the equation, when has Yousuf ever stepped up to say I'll open the innings. When has he said our openers are no good and guys like Malik arent good enough to open, so I Yousuf the best batsman in the team will save Pakistan.

MoYo never has and never will, he's happy to sit around at number 4 collapsing with the rest on bad days and scoring when the going is good. At least until the next T20 league flashes some green in front of his face and then he'll be off again!!

Merc, I usually like the way you do your analysis and love your posts most of the time. But here I can smell a bit of personal grudge going against MoYo. You have been against MoYo since his "ICL-IPL saga".

I dont know how in the world can you just compare 2 batsmen who are class apart...

If you want to look at stats wont be a better idea to look at how one's play has influenced on the result? A good stat can be just to look at how many times has Malik or Yousuf won/lost Pakistan the game when they scored more than 50 runs. (only ODI as we have a better playground here)

In Yousuf's case, out of 270 matches he has played, 54 times he has made 50 above score which has lead Pakistan to victory. In those 54 occasions he averages 143, and 14 of his 15 centuries are in winning cause for Pakistan. While 22 times he has scored more than 50 where Pakistan has lost the match, and he averages around 87 mark in such cases.

While as far as Malik is concerned, out of 179 matches he has played, 24 times he has scored 50+ scores where Pakistan has won the match. In those 24 innings he averages 91.90. While 13 times he has made 50+ scores which has led Pakistan to lose. Suprisingly, in that case Malik averages 91.30 again.

The difference in their respective win/loss average clearly shows how much impact player either one is. In Malik's case whether Pakistan wins or loses his average is around 91 proving that he is not an impact player but just one who hangs around. While in Yousuf's case there is nearly difference of 56 runs when his contribution has led Pakistan to win. This also shows that once Yousuf gets going, he is hard to get out.

Its a fact known to everyone that Yousuf strggles early on in his innings, but as i just said before that if he gets going he is one of the hardest batsmen to get out. While Malik is that 40,50 runs type of player who can get out anytime after getting some scores on the board, and most of the times Malik plays for himself rather than for winning. He has scored so many 30-40's in Pakistans lost causes.....

Only Inzi & Yousuf from current era have this aura about them that once going they are tough nut to crack, about YK you may argue.. But Malik no way... he is not that classy in any respect.

[pak-admirer]

Ok Malik started out as a bowler and was given a run as a batsman at 3 from 2004. So Malik at 3 from 2004 and MoYo at 4.

Against test quality opposition (excl BD) MoYo at 4 averages 37.93 at a strike rate of 72.3 whilst Malik at 3 averages 45.77 at a strike rate of 80.4

At their favoured psoitions MoYo scores 50 every 4.5 games and Malik scores fifty every 2.6 games!!

The sample size isnt big enough (26 inns for Malik versus 204 inns for MoYo) but it does show that when Malik has been given a chance at his favoured position he has excelled.
MoYo doesnt even average 39 at his favoured position, contrast that to Inzi who averages around 41 at both 4 and 5 (versus test quality oppositions minus BD).

MoYo is a batsman who looks good and was very good but not someone who has been an amazing or out of this world batsman. Malik isnt an out of this world batsman either but when he gets to bat where he's comfortable then he excels beyond his limited ability.

It's easy to bash guys like Malik who step up to open the innings and make it obvious how rubbish they are against the new ball but even as an opener (against the same quality of opposition) Malik has averaged 37.33 at a strike rate of 74.8

Not bad for someone who looks totally at sea when opening and way out of his depth. MoYo on the other hand is wrapped up at number 4 and safe from the new ball and how inept it would make him look. Yet we all malign the person who steps out of his comfort zone for the good of the team and laud the person who wont budge despite being the 'best batsman' in the team!

Not comparable really with the stats. The differential with the innings played between the two is too expansive to compare whether who has done better in their best batting position. It's not suprising Malik has good records in many batting positions because he's played not much innings in each of those positions.

No matter for what reason most Pakistan cricket fans feel Yousuf is always the better batsman.

[Saqlain_doosra]

Merc, I usually like the way you do your analysis and love your posts most of the time. But here I can smell a bit of personal grudge going against MoYo. You have been against MoYo since his "ICL-IPL saga".

I dont know how in the world can you just compare 2 batsmen who are class apart...

If you want to look at stats wont be a better idea to look at how one's play has influenced on the result? A good stat can be just to look at how many times has Malik or Yousuf won/lost Pakistan the game when they scored more than 50 runs. (only ODI as we have a better playground here)

In Yousuf's case, out of 270 matches he has played, 54 times he has made 50 above score which has lead Pakistan to victory. In those 54 occasions he averages 143, and 14 of his 15 centuries are in winning cause for Pakistan. While 22 times he has scored more than 50 where Pakistan has lost the match, and he averages around 87 mark in such cases.

While as far as Malik is concerned, out of 179 matches he has played, 24 times he has scored 50+ scores where Pakistan has won the match. In those 24 innings he averages 91.90. While 13 times he has made 50+ scores which has led Pakistan to lose. Suprisingly, in that case Malik averages 91.30 again.

The difference in their respective win/loss average clearly shows how much impact player either one is. In Malik's case whether Pakistan wins or loses his average is around 91 proving that he is not an impact player but just one who hangs around. While in Yousuf's case there is nearly difference of 56 runs when his contribution has led Pakistan to win. This also shows that once Yousuf gets going, he is hard to get out.

Its a fact known to everyone that Yousuf strggles early on in his innings, but as i just said before that if he gets going he is one of the hardest batsmen to get out. While Malik is that 40,50 runs type of player who can get out anytime after getting some scores on the board, and most of the times Malik plays for himself rather than for winning. He has scored so many 30-40's in Pakistans lost causes.....

Only Inzi & Yousuf from current era have this aura about them that once going they are tough nut to crack, about YK you may argue.. But Malik no way... he is not that classy in any respect.


Brilliant post. I agree Merc is not against Yousuf because of cricketing reason. These guys are totally different type of players and Yousuf is back bone of Pakistani Batting lineup. I nominate your post POST OF THE YEAR.

[ahmed16]

Im not sure wether i agree with you Merc, but i do know that Yousufs time is up, his batting has deteriorated, anything which he does with the bat is usually cancelled out by his fielding, the worst fielder by a long shot.
Is this the guy who will seriously occupy number 4 in the world cup 2011?
I dont think so, better drop him now and get someone like Alam to iron out his flaws and make number 4 his own.

If there is one thing and perhaps the only thing that Malik has over Yousuf, it is that Malik never gives his wicket away, where as Yousuf gets out to a soft dimissal every time he bats.
I too have always maintained that it is the senior players who should step up to open when the team is in a crisis, Malik has done it,more surprisingly he did so when he was captain, but unfortunately his technique is not good enough. So what about Younus and Yousuf? Our so called "world class" batsman for who the new ball should not be a problem?

As for Yousuf being wrapped in cotton wool at number 4......hmmmmmm, perhaps but im not sure.

Im also wondering why did Younus start batting at number 3 when Malik was in the form of his life at the same position, logic...kya logic.

[naqlipathan]

Im not sure wether i agree with you Merc, but i do know that Yousufs time is up, his batting has deteriorated, anything which he does with the bat is usually cancelled out by his fielding, the worst fielder by a long shot.
Is this the guy who will seriously occupy number 4 in the world cup 2011?
I dont think so, better drop him now and get someone like Alam to iron out his flaws and make number 4 his own.

If there is one thing and perhaps the only thing that Malik has over Yousuf, it is that Malik never gives his wicket away, where as Yousuf gets out to a soft dimissal every time he bats.
I too have always maintained that it is the senior players who should step up to open when the team is in a crisis, Malik has done it,more surprisingly he did so when he was captain, but unfortunately his technique is not good enough. So what about Younus and Yousuf? Our so called "world class" batsman for who the new ball should not be a problem?

As for Yousuf being wrapped in cotton wool at number 4......hmmmmmm, perhaps but im not sure.

Im also wondering why did Younus start batting at number 3 when Malik was in the form of his life at the same position, logic...kya logic.
malik doesnt give his wicket away because bowlers usually work him out and take it from him. batsmen who throw their wickets like younis, yousuf are those who are easy to get out otherwise. they are not that technically weak against swing bowling, short balls etc.

[naqlipathan]

Brilliant post. I agree Merc is not against Yousuf because of cricketing reason. These guys are totally different type of players and Yousuf is back bone of Pakistani Batting lineup. I nominate your post POST OF THE YEAR.
i agree. kicking yousuf out is like kicking talent out. keeping malik in is like accepting mediocrity. malik a player who at his best scores when the series has already been lost, or at his best scores 50.

god help this team when there is no younis and yousuf

[ahmed16]

malik doesnt give his wicket away because bowlers usually work him out and take it from him. batsmen who throw their wickets like younis, yousuf are those who are easy to get out otherwise. they are not that technically weak against swing bowling, short balls etc.

So there you go, you just admitted that Younus and Yousuf are not up to the mark. 'Nuff said. If they are easy to get out then why do they warrant permanent places.

If they are not are not technically weak against swing bowling and short ball then that means with a little application they should be getting hundreds and matchwining knocks every match....but they dont. My point is vindicated.

As for Malik, true bowlers do work him out, but the fact of the matter is, he doesnt get out to soft dismissals. Take yestreday for example....Malik done in by a very good delivery with some help from his own technique.

Yousuf.....gone fishing outside off stump with about 40 overs left to get 180 runs. Where is the so called application of a world class batsman.

Younus.....short and wide delivery cut straight to third man....with 30 overs left to get about 150 runs

My point is simple, we can ask for Malik to be taken out...no probs...but look at Younus and Yosuf.. the so called "World class" players hiding at 4 and 5 who cant do an ounce between them, it high time we started questioning there positions aswell, especially Younus "Odi average of 11 in 2009" Khan, flippin heck even Malik averages more in Odis this year than Younus.

[naqlipathan]

So there you go, you just admitted that Younus and Yousuf are not up to the mark. 'Nuff said. If they are easy to get out then why do they warrant permanent places.

If they are not are not technically weak against swing bowling and short ball then that means with a little application they should be getting hundreds and matchwining knocks every match....but they dont. My point is vindicated.

As for Malik, true bowlers do work him out, but the fact of the matter is, he doesnt get out to soft dismissals. Take yestreday for example....Malik done in by a very good delivery with some help from his own technique.

Yousuf.....gone fishing outside off stump with about 40 overs left to get 180 runs. Where is the so called application of a world class batsman.

Younus.....short and wide delivery cut straight to third man....with 30 overs left to get about 150 runs

My point is simple, we can ask for Malik to be taken out...no probs...but look at Younus and Yosuf.. the so called "World class" players hiding at 4 and 5 who cant do an ounce between them, it high time we started questioning there positions aswell, especially Younus "Odi average of 11 in 2009" Khan, flippin heck even Malik averages more in Odis this year than Younus.
dear o dear

i meant to say, "not easy" to get out otherwise!

yeah younis is bull at ODI but you cant drop the captain. you have to drop someone cos the team isnt performing. so misbah followed by malik.

[ahmed16]

dear o dear

i meant to say, "not easy" to get out otherwise!

yeah younis is bull at ODI but you cant drop the captain. you have to drop someone cos the team isnt performing. so misbah followed by malik.

Y not, dear o dear so the captain has a free ticket and brings with him the most out of form ODI batsman in current international cricket, what low expectations. When the captain is out of form as badly as he, he usually takes the inititative and gives up the captaincy....ala Chanderpaul, Dravid and Pietersen.....but Younus knows that he is not guranteed a place in ODIs without being the captain....so what makes Younus any different to Malik? In fact looking at the records, he hasnt done much more than Malik as captain....has only won the Twenty20 World cup of which Malik got to th final aswell.....Has yet to to go close or win a series against recognized opposition....much like Malik.

And for the record, at least Malik had the balls to drop non-performing senior players....ala Razzaq before he went to ICL, beucase there is no denying that Razzaq was really out of form.

But Younus....himself,Malik, Misbah and Yousuf are all out of form yet he has dropped neither of them....Imran Khan my ass.

[saeed-sohail]

Ahmed16 I know you love that non talent who is an embarrassment to pakistan cricket he is the worst top order batsman to ever play cricket and before you start bringing his stats up they don't mean anything a true test of a batsman is when he plays under pressure and wins the game for his team like YK did twice last season.
How can ppl even think of comparing malik with legends like YK and MOYO.both reached no 1 test ranking and MOYO spent most of career in odi top 10.Whats the highest test and odi ranking the non talent has got to.I will wait for your reply.
As for malik better then YK in Odis don't forget YK until three years ago batted at 5 and 6 while malik benefited from playing mediocre indian bowling during Inzi era at 3.

[Juggernaut]

I think its stupid to say that the captain should be dropped ... i think thats idiot thinking ... and as for malik he's a good odi player ... just dont play him as an opener ... he should be played in the middle order

Yousuf and Younis are by far better batsman than Malik ... that can be said without any doubt ... but I dont think it would be a big deal to drop Yousuf from the odi squad ... my reason for this is his extremely poor fielding and i mean extremely poor fileding ... he doesnt have the strength to throw the ball back :O ... i mean you can tell that he HATES fielding ... simple

Fawad Alam can play a role of tying up one end and rotating the strike ... YK can also do that ... Umar Akmal on current form also deserves a chance

[naqlipathan]

Y not, dear o dear so the captain has a free ticket and brings with him the most out of form ODI batsman in current international cricket, what low expectations. When the captain is out of form as badly as he, he usually takes the inititative and gives up the captaincy....ala Chanderpaul, Dravid and Pietersen.....but Younus knows that he is not guranteed a place in ODIs without being the captain....so what makes Younus any different to Malik? In fact looking at the records, he hasnt done much more than Malik as captain....has only won the Twenty20 World cup of which Malik got to th final aswell.....Has yet to to go close or win a series against recognized opposition....much like Malik.

And for the record, at least Malik had the balls to drop non-performing senior players....ala Razzaq before he went to ICL, beucase there is no denying that Razzaq was really out of form.

But Younus....himself,Malik, Misbah and Yousuf are all out of form yet he has dropped neither of them....Imran Khan my ass.
you know what if it was easy just to drop the captain and like that appoint a new captain (only afridi deserves the ticket currently) then i would call for younis's axing from ODIs.

however malik and misbah need to go first because they are not the captain. it is easier to get rid of them in theory than it is to drop the captain and appoint a new one.

[ahmed16]

Ahmed16 I know you love that non talent who is an embarrassment to pakistan cricket he is the worst top order batsman to ever play cricket and before you start bringing his stats up they don't mean anything a true test of a batsman is when he plays under pressure and wins the game for his team like YK did twice last season.How can ppl even think of comparing malik with legends like YK and MOYO.both reached no 1 test ranking and MOYO spent most of career in odi top 10.Whats the highest test and odi ranking the non talent has got to.I will wait for your reply.
As for malik better then YK in Odis don't forget YK until three years ago batted at 5 and 6 while malik benefited from playing mediocre indian bowling during Inzi era at 3.

Last season, there you go
I never said that that first line and i dont need to talk about his rankings, he is ranked lower and i have nothing against him being dropped. I never compared Malik to nobody, yes i looked at both Younus and Maliks captaincy, but i NEVER compared them as players, get it right. My argument is that if you can pick up on Malik not performing then why not bothYousuf and Younus, who as "world class" players, should have a better average in a current season, but the fact is they have done nothing of note recently either...why do people regard there small scores and pathetic dismisals as "top class batsman who are out of form", how long can Younus remain out of form without doing nothing of note this season, oh yes his 300, what an innings, 2 team innings got played over 5 days and we call his inings world class, Yousuf....dont even go to Yousuf, he plays as a batsman only who gives away his wicket everytime....as the captain and the senior most batsman in the side, they should set an example, except for the best part of a year, and before Yousuf went to the ICL...they havent. As for Younus performing when he did last season, like the rest of our pathetic line up, he performed when he was under pressure for his place, i take it you mean the hundred during Kitply cup, sorry to break it you mate but that was also a flat pitch and even a non talent like Butt got a hundred, and before it Younus had not even got off the mark.

Malik should be dropped, i dont love non talents and dont shift the argument to avoid your "wonder players" Younus and Yousuf from being bashed. My argument is simple, when so called "talent" doesnt perform you need to raise eyebrows at them aswell...otherwise they live on past performances, they like the rest of the team dont have a free ticket into the side, they have to perform. Malik and Misbah are not performing and it is high time they were dropped, but the same can also be said for the 2 Y's.

[ahmed16]

you know what if it was easy just to drop the captain and like that appoint a new captain (only afridi deserves the ticket currently) then i would call for younis's axing from ODIs.

however malik and misbah need to go first because they are not the captain. it is easier to get rid of them in theory than it is to drop the captain and appoint a new one.

fair enough....but for the love of Pakistani cricket...they got rid of Malik as a captain, surely they can do the same for Younus.

[saeed-sohail]

Problem with YK is that he is being too nice to cheetah and misbah and this is affecting his batting he needs to make some tough decisions and drop misbah and rest MOYO and move cheetah to middle order for this series if he does not perform drop him for champions trophy.

[ahmed16]

Problem with YK is that he is being too nice to cheetah and misbah and this is affecting his batting he needs to make some tough decisions and drop misbah and rest MOYO and move cheetah to middle order for this series if he does not perform drop him for champions trophy.

No he is being too nice to himself, how about give up the captaincy and see himself lose his odi place. A team without Malik, (wholly out of form) Misbah (Grandpa, Younus (just not an ODI player) and Yousuf (another Grandpa) would be much better. He said in an interview that he would drop himself and others if he he feels it is right, well that is 6 innings now in and ODI where Younus and his cronies, M and M, have failed to live up to the task, so when will this bold statement actually materialise.
Ill leave Yosuf out for now, only one ODI.

[Juggernaut]

fair enough....but for the love of Pakistani cricket...they got rid of Malik as a captain, surely they can do the same for Younus.

So you want them to keep changing captains every few years ... who do YOU have in mind as captain? do you want to go back to malik ... who i think you yourself say should be dropped for the odi's and is a poor test cricketer ... misbah? again you think he should be dropped, so do i actually as far as this odi series goes ... or Afridi? talented indvidual but hasn't done his talent justice ... not an established test cricketer ... a good odi bowler but unfortunately still can't be called a good odi batsman ... Younus is the best choice ... its all well and good for you to say that he should be dropped but who's gonna be captain?

[ahmed16]

So you want them to keep changing captains every few years ... who do YOU have in mind as captain? do you want to go back to malik ... who i think you yourself say should be dropped for the odi's and is a poor test cricketer ... misbah? again you think he should be dropped, so do i actually as far as this odi series goes ... or Afridi? talented indvidual but hasn't done his talent justice ... not an established test cricketer ... a good odi bowler but unfortunately still can't be called a good odi batsman ... Younus is the best choice ... its all well and good for you to say that he should be dropped but who's gonna be captain?

Well Younus has proved that he cant handle the pressure of batting and being a captain. How about Afridi? Who showed what he can do when given the responsibility in the T20 World Cup, fair enough it was the T20, but still we saw a new Afridi, and im betting that if we give him more responsibility, he could just be a trump card.

Im amazed that Younus has handled the pressure of being a captain so pathetically, his batting form has gone completely down the drain in ODIs, he is not sure of his position, an ODI average of 28 says as much at his so called naturalised position, number 3. Whats even more pathetic is that someone like Malik saw his batting average increase when he was captain, so why the hell can Younus, a far better player, not follow suit.

Afridi for captain in ODIs and Twenty20. Younus should stick to the form of the game that suits him best, tests and he should be captain there. All he needs is better batsman and he will win tests.

[Juggernaut]

Well Younus has proved that he cant handle the pressure of batting and being a captain. How about Afridi? Who showed what he can do when given the responsibility in the T20 World Cup, fair enough it was the T20, but still we saw a new Afridi, and im betting that if we give him more responsibility, he could just be a trump card.

Im amazed that Younus has handled the pressure of being a captain so pathetically, his batting form has gone completely down the drain in ODIs, he is not sure of his position, an ODI average of 28 says as much at his so called naturalised position, number 3. Whats even more pathetic is that someone like Malik saw his batting average increase when he was captain, so why the hell can Younus, a far better player, not follow suit.

Afridi for captain in ODIs and Twenty20. Younus should stick to the form of the game that suits him best, tests and he should be captain there. All he needs is better batsman and he will win tests.

I dont agree with Pakistan having two captains ... i agree that Afridi would probably raise his game if made captain ... but lets give Younis some time ... changing captains again is not the way to go about it

[Mercenary]

It's amazing how short some people's memories are and how much hatred for a specific player completely clouds their judgement. Stats or no stats, Pakistans top 3 ODI batsmen over the last half decade have been Inzamam, then MoYo and then Malik.

Let's look at a very simple stat, man of the match (vs test quality opposition minus BD)...

In 217 appearances Mohamamd Yousuf has 9 MOM awards. In just 145 appearances Malik already has 10 MOM awards!

It's not that MoYo isnt capable of winning MOM awards more regularly, against minnows MoYo has 9 MOM awards in just 58 games!! That's an incredible ratio of a man of the match award in every 6.4 games!!

People need to extend their memory beyond the last year and to stop hating Malik just because MoYo made some statements against him in the media.

[saeed-sohail]

Merc bhai you are right about hatred clouding ppls judgment look at yourself how you come across as if your MOYO bashing has nothing to do with cricket its about something else I mean MOYO should only play test cricket as his fielding lets him down but comparing him to a non talent is just ridiculous .
Regarding man of the match awards don't you think malik being an allrounder(well he was one)gives advantage.and don't always look at MOTM as it can be misleading look at the game yesterday murali got it but SL won because of tushara and kulsekera get pakistan top 5 out for nothing.Muralis exploits were matched by Umar Gul so his innings was not the difference.

[desi_larka420]

Shoaib Akhtar if he is fit, I don't care he wins Pakistan matches......

[Mercenary]

Merc bhai you are right about hatred clouding ppls judgment look at yourself how you come across as if your MOYO bashing has nothing to do with cricket its about something else I mean MOYO should only play test cricket as his fielding lets him down but comparing him to a non talent is just ridiculous .

Where have I bashed MoYo? I've repeatedly said that he's a better batsman than Malik, in fact I rated him our second best batsman after Inzi over the last 5 years. How is that bashing?

Bashing is when you call someone a non-talent when he's our 3rd best ODI bat over the last 5 years, our second highest rated ODI bat in the rankings and a player with one of the best MOM ratios in Pakistans history.

Thats what you call blind hatred!!

[AZ]

still Merc, you can't deny that Malik is not performing as a middle order batsman for quite a while now...I honestly cannot recall when was his last great innings for Pakistan in ODIs...I think we might have to go all the way back to the 5th ODI vs. India in 2007

[Mercenary]

still Merc, you can't deny that Malik is not performing as a middle order batsman for quite a while now...I honestly cannot recall when was his last great innings for Pakistan in ODIs...I think we might have to go all the way back to the 5th ODI vs. India in 2007

How do we expect a player to settle down and score when we dont give him a settled position in the batting order?

In his last 22 inns Malik has not batted in the same position for four games in a row!! That's right there's no point within his last 22 inns that he's been batted at the same position for 4 games in a row!

In 22 inns he's batted at 5 different positions from opener down to number 6. Actually the only place he hasnt batted is at number 3 which is where he plays best!!

Despite that he averages 44 at a strike rate of 86 with 1 century and 6 fifties!! That is despite him being the batting gypsy!!

I agree he's currently not in the best of touch but how can he get into touch if he is never given a settled batting position?

[jusarrived]

completely agree with you merc , those are the players i would persist with and you have given the right reasons why these guys deserve a place in the side .

Every one here seems to have their own favs , but as a neutral 2 of Misbah , Malik , YK and MoYo have to give away their positions to youngsters ...& it should be MoYo and Misbah imo ...!

[jusarrived]

still Merc, you can't deny that Malik is not performing as a middle order batsman for quite a while now...I honestly cannot recall when was his last great innings for Pakistan in ODIs...I think we might have to go all the way back to the 5th ODI vs. India in 2007

Malik should bat at 4 imo , hes capable of winning matches for pak consistently ..hes been coming in either too early or too late .

[afridi.rocks]

Malik and MoYo both deserved to be in the team.
Misbah doesn't, because he hasn't even performed well!

[afridi.rocks]

Malik shouldn't open because he isn't able to see off the new ball.

[ahmed16]

How do we expect a player to settle down and score when we dont give him a settled position in the batting order?

In his last 22 inns Malik has not batted in the same position for four games in a row!! That's right there's no point within his last 22 inns that he's been batted at the same position for 4 games in a row!

In 22 inns he's batted at 5 different positions from opener down to number 6. Actually the only place he hasnt batted is at number 3 which is where he plays best!!

Despite that he averages 44 at a strike rate of 86 with 1 century and 6 fifties!! That is despite him being the batting gypsy!!

I agree he's currently not in the best of touch but how can he get into touch if he is never given a settled batting position?

Agreed.....but the fact of the matter is that Malik is out of form, until he gets back into it, he cant have a consistent position. The fact that he has not batted at 3 is shocking, given that Younus has not exactly been Bradman at the position, and now we have Afridi there.

[naqlipathan]

Malik should bat at 4 imo , hes capable of winning matches for pak consistently ..hes been coming in either too early or too late .
er, he might be "able and willing" to win matches for pakistan, but he hasnt done that yet after 10 years of ODI cricket.

the words "match winner" and "shoaib malik" dont go together. he's not a match winner.

[saeed-sohail]

Yes I am a malik basher and proud to be one as this non talent deserves nothing but bashing.How this guy went on to become pakistan captain is beyond me.As for MOYO a fantastic batsman and miles ahead of any of his team mates but you keep bring his stats up and compare them to those of non talents and worst of all you came out with this mohd irfan story.

To me that if true is something should never have been brought into public as it happened behind closed doors .Do you know a young yorkshire fast bowler was stopped from bowling bouncers at a certain legendary batsman during net session so these things do happen does not mean you name the person esp when he has achieved so much in the game.

[afridi.rocks]

We can't have players throwing their wickets away with the PP!!
We were 94-5 in 20 overs!

[Mercenary]

er, he might be "able and willing" to win matches for pakistan, but he hasnt done that yet after 10 years of ODI cricket.

the words "match winner" and "shoaib malik" dont go together. he's not a match winner.

Against test quality (excl BD) opposition Malik has 10 MOM awards in 145 matches whilst MoYo only has 9 in 217 matches.

So no Malik hasnt won any matches for Pakistan, they just had a raffle before the game for MOM!! :moyo

[Mercenary]

Yes I am a malik basher and proud to be one as this non talent deserves nothing but bashing.How this guy went on to become pakistan captain is beyond me.As for MOYO a fantastic batsman and miles ahead of any of his team mates but you keep bring his stats up and compare them to those of non talents and worst of all you came out with this mohd irfan story.

To me that if true is something should never have been brought into public as it happened behind closed doors .Do you know a young yorkshire fast bowler was stopped from bowling bouncers at a certain legendary batsman during net session so these things do happen does not mean you name the person esp when he has achieved so much in the game.

So you're basically a MoYo fan boy who doesnt care what the truth is as long as everyone says MoYo is the best?

We already have Akhtar, Inzi, MoYo and Butt fanboys. Now we have another MoYo one!! As for the story about the nets, why shouldn't it be told? Real fans love hearing these sorts of stories, I know I do.

In fact there is a really good nets story that Mohamamd Zahid told me (in his upcoming interview) about Afridi in the nets. By your logic I shouldnt tell anyone that story and remove it from the interview as well?

Would other PPers like it removed from the interview because it's a behind 'closed doors' nets story?

[McBoom]

^^ But why have you singled out Yousuf? You also know that most of our batsmen don't want to face the new ball in the nets but yet you keep focusing on MoYo and that he is afraid of the new ball.

[TaZ]

I'd like to see how Yousuf would fare if he was constantly being shifted all over the batting order. Let's look at both players last 30 ODI inns vs test quality opposition (excl BD).

Batting positions - Malik has batted in 5 different positions including opening and 4-7. Yousuf on the other hand has only batted 3 games at number 5 with all the other games coming at his favoured number 4 position. So surely Yousuf who has been given a stable batting position should be outscoring Malik by a long way?

Batting Avg and fifties/centuries - Yousuf (47) averages 4 runs more than Malik (43) over their last 30 innings despite having a stable batting position and being a specialist batsman. Both players have 8 fifties whilst Yousuf has 2 centuires and Malik only has 1. Yousuf has been in the form of his life whilst Malik has been struggling yet Malik only trails Yousuf by 4 runs and 1 century.

Batting strike rate - Malik (83%) scored his runs 8% faster than Yousuf (75%) did. Limited overs cricket is about scoring fast, if you have two batsmen both hovering either side of a 45 run average and one is scoring nearly 10% faster than the other then it's a no brainer which batsman is more useful.

Fielding - After Fawad, Malik is our best fielder. Malik has contributed to 22 dismissals (catches, runouts) when fielding, in the same sample used above Yousuf has 2 dismissals to Maliks 22!! Malik has been over 10 times the fielder Yousuf will ever be!

Bowling - Yousuf doesnt bowl and Malik doesnt bowl as regularly as he used to but he has still taken 9 wickets in the sample above which is 9 more than Yousuf will ever contribute. 9 wickets plus 22 dismissals is 31 dismissals by Malik vs 2 by Yousuf.

Conclusion - Over their last 30 inns Malik and Yousuf have cancelled each other out as batsmen. However Malik's overall contribution to the team of 31 dismissals to Yousufs 2 dismissals makes him over 15 times as valuable in the field. Yousuf has been given a favoured position and role in the team where he gets to bat where he wants but despite that he's not doing anything to put himself head and shoulders above Malik. If there's only one position available then Malik should take it because if you add the runs he saves in the field and the dismissals he contributes to, then in tight matches he would push us over the edge whereas Yousuf's fielding would drag us down!!


A brilliant post

[saeed-sohail]

Oh bhai I am no MOYO fan I rate him as a batsman but was against him coming back after ICL saga and being a mod you should have gone through number of my posts about him only playing test cricket but that does not stop me from standing up for him when ppl try to defend a non talent by bring him up in a negative way.

[Mercenary]

^^ But why have you singled out Yousuf? You also know that most of our batsmen don't want to face the new ball in the nets but yet you keep focusing on MoYo and that he is afraid of the new ball.

Because he's our best batsman and when a team is struggling against the new ball then surely the best batsman should become the makeshift opener not a non-talent!!

Besides I didnt single Yousuf out, I also mentioned that YK was asked if he would open and that he said why me? Why should I open?

[Zaz]

So you're basically a MoYo fan boy who doesnt care what the truth is as long as everyone says MoYo is the best?

We already have Akhtar, Inzi, MoYo and Butt fanboys. Now we have another MoYo one!! As for the story about the nets, why shouldn't it be told? Real fans love hearing these sorts of stories, I know I do.

In fact there is a really good nets story that Mohamamd Zahid told me (in his upcoming interview) about Afridi in the nets. By your logic I shouldnt tell anyone that story and remove it from the interview as well?

Would other PPers like it removed from the interview because it's a behind 'closed doors' nets story?


Wots the story?

[ahmed16]

^^ But why have you singled out Yousuf? You also know that most of our batsmen don't want to face the new ball in the nets but yet you keep focusing on MoYo and that he is afraid of the new ball.

Well Yousuf has NEVER opened the innings, i just checked on cricinfo Younus has, once in 2007 and once in 2008...and that is why merc is singling him out.

[ahmed16]

Against test quality (excl BD) opposition Malik has 10 MOM awards in 145 matches whilst MoYo only has 9 in 217 matches.

So no Malik hasnt won any matches for Pakistan, they just had a raffle before the game for MOM!! :moyo

Surprising for a man of Yousufs class.

[Mercenary]

Wots the story?

Read it in the interview sometime next week!

[saeed-sohail]

Is it the same YK who has scored most of his test hundreds after coming in at 3 with semi new ball?

[Zaz]

Read it in the interview sometime next week!

But wot exactly happened?

[ahmed16]

Is it the same YK who has scored most of his test hundreds after coming in at 3 with semi new ball?

Got the wrong thread, this thread is all about Yousuf vs Malik.

[Wassixpakistani]

But wot exactly happened?

What good would the Interview be if he spilled the beans now .
Be patient.

[Zaz]

What good would the Interview be if he spilled the beans now .
Be patient.


Ok i ll try and be patient :po:

[Mercenary]

Well Yousuf has NEVER opened the innings, i just checked on cricinfo Younus has, once in 2007 and once in 2008...and that is why merc is singling him out.

In ODIs, Malik has opened 15 times, Inzi has opened 12 times, Miandad 4 times, Razzaq 3 times, Mahmood 2 times, Younis 2 times, Faisal Iqbal 2 times but MoYo has never opened.

In other teams the best batsmen open the innings. Guys like Smith, Gibbs, Gayle, Sachin, Sehwag, Dravid tried it, Hayden, Gilchrist, Jaya, Dilshan, etc. But despite Pakistan struggling to find a quality opening bat for almost a decade MoYo has never even given it a try unlike the rest of the batting order!

[Zaz]

Its not about how a particular player has done in a particular position

Every1 wants to bat 3/4 but only 2 can, the others need to fit in and if they arent doing a good job fitting in then they need to be dropped and some1 who can brought in

Malik has been pretty avge over last 6 months, the stats show it and so does his performances

[ahmed16]

[QUOTE=Mercenary]In ODIs, Malik has opened 15 times, Inzi has opened 12 times, Miandad 4 times, Razzaq 3 times, Mahmood 2 times, Younis 2 times, Faisal Iqbal 2 times but MoYo has never opened.

In other teams the best batsmen open the innings. Guys like Smith, Gibbs, Gayle, Sachin, Sehwag, Dravid tried it, Hayden, Gilchrist, Jaya, Dilshan, etc. But despite Pakistan struggling to find a quality opening bat for almost a decade MoYo has never even given it a try unlike the rest of the batting order![ [QUOTE]

Well when you put it like, Yousuf does seem a little suspect....but he has made 4 his own though, cant deny him that. Where as Younus has not yet made 3 his own and Inzamam....he batted at 5 because there was no other position.

[saeed-sohail]

Got the wrong thread, this thread is all about Yousuf vs Malik.
Read post 88 now he is bringing YK into it aswell.

[zulfiqar]

Alright, I haven't had much time to post lately but Malik at #3 has been a LONG-TIME issue with the team management. It all started when we needed to accommodate "Useless-Khan" in the ODI team and Imran Khan said that YK must bat at #3. I have respect for Imran Khan but he's simply wrong. The only reason YK was moved to #3 was because he was useless everywhere else, including opening. Instead of kicking him out of the team, they moved Shoaib Malik from #3, a position where he had been nothing short of prolific.

The thing I like about Malik best is his attitude. He will open for Pakistan even if it's against his natural instinct to do so. He is not technically correct and does not play natural and flawless cricket, but nevertheless he is effective and makes best use of what he's got. He's a gritty & determined type of player as well who will try to stick it out no matter what the circumstances. In this series you all will see, Malik will perform well. He usually doesn't go through lean patches; atleast I've never seen it happen. MoYo can't be dropped and he should bat at 4, simply because he excels there. There is no question of who's got more guts when comparing and Malik and MoYo btw... but Moyo is more naturally gifted and bats better. YK should come in at 5 and do the Inzi role of saving the collapse. If the team is scoring heavily and well, then he should delay himself and let other aggressive batsmen go ahead of him (the same thing we all wanted from him in T20s).

If someone from the middle order has to go, it's Misbah (and I wouldn't even vote him out of the team yet). This team will perform, I feel.

[ahmed16]

Read post 88 now he is bringing YK into it aswell.

I see...but apart from Yousuf, no one in Pakistans current odi lineup has a staple batting position, but yes no need to bring Younus into it....but still when someone goes "why should i open", that does leave a sour taste.

[McBoom]

WHY would you want a guy to open when he has never even opened an innings in his first class career? Yousuf has always played in the middle order, he was selected in the team as a middle order batsman, he made his name as a middle order batsman and that's where he should play. Thats the end of it. No amount of fancy stats are going to change it.

We are talking about cricket here, not 'I dare you to open'.

The reason Malik has been shuffled around is because he can't hold a position and make it his own. Why would you want him to come at number 3 when the ball is still moving? He is a sitting duck.

[zulfiqar]

McBoom, you probably completely ignored the stats Malik has at #3 as posted earlier in this thread. Sitting Duck? In our current line up no one averages more than Malik at #3

[McBoom]

McBoom, you probably completely ignored the stats Malik has at #3 as posted earlier in this thread. Sitting Duck? In our current line up no one averages more than Malik at #3Malik is to number 3, as Salman Butt is to opening, India bashers and nothing more. Any one would have pummelled the toothless Indian attack on flat roads at that time, just like Malik & Butt did. Take out Malik's exploits against minnows and India and you'll see the difference.

For the life of me I can't see Malik doing well at number 3 since I guess most of our matches will be played overseas. Given our track record, more often than not he'll have to come in during the first 5 overs and..... I can't even imagine the embarrassment. We need a proper batsman at number 3, not some glorified tailender.

[McBoom]

Now then, how about we replace Malik with MoYo for the next game?

[ahmed16]

Now then, how about we replace Malik with MoYo for the next game?

Yes that would be "logic" but how willing will Yousuf be to play under Younus after being dropped, now doubt that Yousuf has a seniority ego, remember Malik and T20? I think Younus has ruffled more than just feathers by playing such a side.

[cornelius]

Yes that would be "logic" but how willing will Yousuf be to play under Younus after being dropped, now doubt that Yousuf has a seniority ego, remember Malik and T20? I think Younus has ruffled more than just feathers by playing such a side.

Fine then lets get rid of malik and get two specialist openers to play.

[Mercenary]

Fine then lets get rid of malik and get two specialist openers to play.

Agreed, drop Malik and bring in Nazir. We keep the fielding and add some oomph at the top of the order.

[ahmed16]

Fine then lets get rid of malik and get two specialist openers to play.

y not?,

[McBoom]

Yes that would be "logic" but how willing will Yousuf be to play under Younus after being dropped, now doubt that Yousuf has a seniority ego, remember Malik and T20? I think Younus has ruffled more than just feathers by playing such a side.Whether Yousuf will be ready to play after getting dropped or not is just speculation. You can't exclude a world class player on mere speculation.

[Dubawi]

Okay now a question for everyone with this tour being played mostly on green wickets why wasn't a fourth seamer included both in tests and so far in ODI's

I personally believe Razzaq should have played all three tests since as Younis was performing well with the ball Razzaq would have been much more deadly

I also believe a fourth seamer either Rana or Rao should have played the first two ODI's in place of Ajmal just because it was green wickets on which they could have extracted more from the pitch than what Ajmal has done

Just look at the tour so far Kulasekara and Thushara have gone through Pakistan's batting order just like a train has gone through a tunnel

[shahidrazzaq]

I bet Imran nazir will come in now

[zulfiqar]

Edit.

[zulfiqar]

Malik is to number 3, as Salman Butt is to opening, India bashers and nothing more. Any one would have pummelled the toothless Indian attack on flat roads at that time, just like Malik & Butt did. Take out Malik's exploits against minnows and India and you'll see the difference.

For the life of me I can't see Malik doing well at number 3 since I guess most of our matches will be played overseas. Given our track record, more often than not he'll have to come in during the first 5 overs and..... I can't even imagine the embarrassment. We need a proper batsman at number 3, not some glorified tailender.

Take out their performances against India? Why? If it were upto me Butt wouldn't have been dropped from ODIs either.

You guys are jumping the gun wayyy too fast! They had a horrible test series, but what makes you guys think that these other replacements will do any better? These guys have performed decently enough to keep their places in the squad! (Misbah is under the scanner, but hasn't failed so bad to deserve to be dropped!) Only ALAM can replace Misbah because of his consistent domestic performances. It's easy to bash Jamshed/Umar from just one match, but I don't think that's fair.

Our batting was fine... this will be such a joke when for the 3rd ODI MoYo is back in the squad (which I'm sure he will be). He shoudln't have been dropped in the first place! All of PP has gone mad. Imran Nazir will do better than Jamshed? WHY OH WHY are people thinking this way??? At this point it's almost a case of "Well, WHY NOT?" The answer is consistency. Butt does nothing wrong and he's dropped from ODIs. One series vs Aus isn't the all doom and gloom. Others also failed in that series. Bah, I feel like I could go on and on. I'm not the one to bash new players; everyone likes the thrill and excitement of watching a prospect future batsman, but we simply can't treat players like trash and drop them without logic and consistent selection policies. End rant.

Edit: Sorry for all the edits, shahidrazzaq is my younger brother's profile and I accidentally posted from his.

[Rizie]

Malik should stop playing Cricket.

Nazir and Moyo instead of Nasir and Malik

[Alam_dar]

Well, these 3 Players should get enough Chance to prove their worth before CT

1. Fawad
2. Umar Akmal
3. Nasir Jamshed

I would not mind if Moyo & Malik & Misbah stays out of the team for rest of Tour, while we already know how good they are.

4th one is Imran Nazir who should also be tested to see what happens.

[McBoom]

Take out their performances against India? Why? If it were upto me Butt wouldn't have been dropped from ODIs either.Like I mentioned, Butt & Malik feasted on guys like Nehra, Agarkar, Pathan etc on flat roads where the average score was 300. Butt looks like Bradman when playing against India but it doesn't change the fact that he is useless. And you say that Butt has done nothing wrong? Well just look at the last ten ODIs, Tests and T20s he has played and then come back to me.

You guys are jumping the gun wayyy too fast! They had a horrible test series, but what makes you guys think that these other replacements will do any better? These guys have performed decently enough to keep their places in the squad! (Misbah is under the scanner, but hasn't failed so bad to deserve to be dropped!) Only ALAM can replace Misbah because of his consistent domestic performances. It's easy to bash Jamshed/Umar from just one match, but I don't think that's fair.I haven't jumped the gun mate, I have been saying this even before the start of test series that Malik & Misbah don't deserve to play (for Malik to be excluded from tests I have been saying since God knows how long) and I am still backing up what I said. Never have I demanded exclusion of Yousuf and Younis from ODIs let alone tests and I still stand by it.

[Wasim_Waqar]

See my thread. I have made my stance perfectly clear.

[zulfiqar]

Like I mentioned, Butt & Malik feasted on guys like Nehra, Agarkar, Pathan etc on flat roads where the average score was 300. Butt looks like Bradman when playing against India but it doesn't change the fact that he is useless. And you say that Butt has done nothing wrong? Well just look at the last ten ODIs, Tests and T20s he has played and then come back to me.

Butt in the last 10 ODI's? Here you go buddy:

7, 0 (v WI); 100*, 62, 0 (v SL); 5, 57, 48, 2, 0 (v Aus), averaging 31.22 as an ODI opener in his last 10 ODI innings.

Tests you say?:

1, 67, 42, 11, 68, 8 (v IND); 23, 48, 0, 28 (v SL), averaging 29.6 in his last 10 test outings.

I'm not going to mention T20's because Butt is horrible at that format of the game mainly due to his strike rate, and it is obvious he is a poor selection for that format (YK is also on that list). Averaging 31 as an ODI opener and 30 as a Test opener is not by any means hot, but you'll be hard pressed to find someone who's done better in the opening position for Pakistan in the recent past.

Perhaps it's the limited # of matches Pakistan has been playing of late which is effecting the performance of the batsmen, but all in all, these "senior" players are actually not that bad at all! More and more of this is reminding me of how Indian big-name batsmen came into scrutiny when they last toured Sri Lanka for tests and got whooped with averages of under 20 for their 6 innings. All of them besides Ganguly are still in their team! We should persist.

[zulfiqar]

Let me also remind people that Salman Butt has only played 68 matches (in which he averages 38 overall<< includes Bang/Zim). Compare him to, say, Imran Nazir who has played 70+ matches also and didn't even manage an average of 25. Imran's average to 20 if you exclude minnows, while Butt still stays at a healthy 35+. I just showed how even in his last 10 innings (where he's out of form) he still averages 30!! Why the need for new openers when Salman is doing OK and promises to do better. Not all openers were hot and amongst the runs from the word go. 68 matches is seriously not that much compared to how many chances we gave Imran Nazir & Afridi (as examples of batting failure).

Malik has played a lot more matches obviously but he is also an example of a player who has responded brilliantly to the chances he got. He has guts, he is a team player, and most importantly for everyone: he does deliver! I think this historic test series defeat to SL has done silly things to peoples' heads... we all love new talent, and we do have one: Mohammad Aamer! He's one of the new faces of Pakistani cricket. And don't forget Fawad Alam, a brilliant fielder with lots to promise as a batsman. 2 are good enough for me.

Verdict: By keeping players like Malik, MoYo, Misbah, we're not being doomed to an "aging" team. We need to have faith and keep these players, especially at a time like this where a couple of major tournaments are near the horizon. New talent is good, and inshallah we will keep giving them chances in ODI series in the future, but let's not discard players who have done so well in the recent past and promise to continue and improve!