Okay, we're just not this bad...

[Easa]

Look, I've been following Pakistani cricket religiously for quite a long time now and this team just isn't as bad as the results show.

I'm finding it hard to believe that there isn't something fishy, and this is coming from a guy who has never believed a single conspiracy theory to come out of Pakistan. But these are world-class players. Yousuf and Younis have the ability, temperament, and patience to carve out big hundreds, match-winning efforts. It just doesn't make sense that they should fail so consistently.

I'm not saying the Gods are conspiring against us or anything, but we've been desperately unlucky all tour, and its just getting worse. Thats not to say that we haven't; been abymsal at times; we have, this is Pakistan, that is what you will get, come what may. But I for one don't believe we deserved to lose the Test series 3-0. And this 4-0 scoreline that stands currently is even worse.

This is a decent bunch of a lads. They are no world beaters and we shouldn't expect them to be just yet. But we just are not this bad, I for one am not believing this.

There are weak links and they have been brutally exposed this tour. Some are excellent players who just need to take some time off (re Akmal, Younis for tests, Malik for ODI's), and some are just yet finding their feet in the early stages of their careers. There is hope. I'll repeat that again, there is hope for me, I haven't given up on them yet. But the sad part is, if the likes of Misbah and get selected again, I just might.

[Oxy]

We've been worse, but we've never had a squad full of so many '******' players who were this bad.

In the past,, out parchis & ********'s could still perform once in a while.

Now we are packed with mediocre ****** players

[Momo]

I mostly agree with you Easa. Except one thing: Moyo and YK have played way too long on reputation alone, and it is time to jettison them.

On a positive note, things are only going to improve now. :afridi

[IM NOT YOU]

salman butt, shoaib malik, misbah ul haq, younus khan, mohammad yousuf


until ALL of these 5 disappear off the radar in limited overs cricket , we are as bad as the results show.

its pretty obvious.

[90MPH]

Its more to do with attitude and weak mentality then talent though there is quite a few passengers in the team as well.

I expect a few changes once the tour is concluded - Coach, Captain and the preferably some new selectors who will give some new players a chance.

[Stewie]

No such thing as no hope for Pakistan. With our talent there is always hope. It is the unprofessionalism that kills us. We have had several such patches in the 90s and 2000s where the team has performed horribly, notably against Australia and South Africa. I think our boys become too timid and cannot take the aggression dished out and fold.
Ours is a team of confidence and when the going is good, they all cash in. I already said it before that once we lost the momentum in the Sydney test defeat, we will not be getting it back and just go on a downward spiral. That is what is happening.

A fresh start will hopefully fix this. Be it a new series, a change in captaincy and management, whatever, etc.
These guys are not that bad, thats a given. Just a few weak links to fix and we will be fine.

[Gollum]

Believe it!!! We are this bad, really.

[Radiance Of Australis]

yeah i was quite pissed off during the whole tour but the thing is,its Aussies we'rre playing against and that too on Aussie soil.(ofcourse that should not be an excuse to lose,though)

remember,England were 1-6 last summer against Aussies on home pitches.It was a SEVEN match series and they won only one.every team has its bad performances.

But test series was really bad,no excuses for that,especially the second test as everyone knows.
we need to get rid of the failures,need new players etc.progress wont show at once but gradually it will.

[Uzi]

yeah i was quite pissed off during the whole tour but the thing is,its Aussies we'rre playing against and that too on Aussie soil.(ofcourse that should not be an excuse to lose,though)

remember,England were 1-6 last summer against Aussies on home pitches.It was a SEVEN match series and they won only one.every team has its bad performances.

But test series was really bad,no excuses for that,especially the second test as everyone knows.
we need to get rid of the failures,need new players etc.progress wont show at once but gradually it will.

We have been seeing bad performances consistently for some time now.

[Mohsin]

Look on the bright side, the only way is up!































Until the 5th ODI

[PakZameen]

Really, if we continue down this road than its really indifferent, otherwise theres no where but up to go now. Although until these players start playing for the team instead of the name on the back things aren't gonna get better.

Plus what their issue playing part-time bowler and in/out bowlers? we suck against them.

[pak4life]

Just need a new captain new coach a fresh approach and we will be on the road again. It is quite obvious none of the players have any confidence or faith in playing under yousaf most are just going through the motions.

[zulfiqar]

I agree about Shoaib Malik also.. he seriously just ISN'T this bad. He's one of the more mentally tough players and in ODI's he usually always manages to hold his own. They seriously just aren't playing as a team... they are all just slackers, and I mean that in the most serious sense. No one is keen on sorting out issues, whether related to cricket ability or the team unity. They are failing their fans miserably and they should be more responsible for their performances of late.

[z2_daredevil]

if ur talking abt rite now....

then u just have to believe it we SUCK :@

[kkmix]

We have been somewhat unlucky in this tour...we should've won the second test and then we should've won the 1st ODI, we missed the opportunity there. and for both the defeats i blame the leasder of the team, this leader is not leading by example.

[srh]

This team is just not talented enough.

[Desi]

We have been somewhat unlucky in this tour...we should've won the second test and then we should've won the 1st ODI, we missed the opportunity there. and for both the defeats i blame the leasder of the team, this leader is not leading by example.
People compare MoYo to Inzi as far as captaincy goes. Yeah they're both clueless in the field, BUT Inzi scored and really defined what it means to lead by example. And MoYo's average as captain...?

[iZeeshan]

This team is just not talented enough.
Are you kidding?

We're anything BUT not talented :umarakmal :aamir :afridi

[Zechariah]

The talent is there, its the same team as before but the mind is not there.

That's the problem.

There is no confidence.

[GLORY OF '92]

Afridi will be our saviour. Agree that moyo and YK should be dropped from odis.

[coy0607]

i think ur wrong.......we are this bad......our batting is atrocious, and dont go by younis and yousufs record, they are both past their prime, and unlike tendulkar and ponting, their not fit enough to play great innings in their mid 30's.......our fielding is probably the worst is the world, i dont know what else to say about this.......and our bowling is overrated, we have a great fast bowler in asif, and very good spinners in afridi and ajmal, aamer has bowled well but he hasnt established himself as a great bowler yet.....gul, rana are very inconsistent

and to top everything off, were not even a well coached team, and everything else is negated by the fact that our players hold personal grudges against one another, playing for themselves and not the team which significantly hurts the team; the pakistani team is as bad as they've been in 20 years

[srh]

Are you kidding?

We're anything BUT not talented :umarakmal :aamir :afridi
Other than the beast nobody from this team can make the World XI.

[the Great Khan]

Ok..I remember Bangalore 05..we had a rubbish bowling line up but won that match..why? Because we played as a team..woolmer and inzi were a great partnership and brought the best out of some unproven talent..malik afridi yusuf younis shabbir razzaq kaneria hameed akmal were all unproven..but the became good players and if politics and fate hadn't destroyed things we could have come good..but alas people didn't like the type of unity being promoted in the team..deismamisation was the key so inzi had to go, yusuf had to go, razzaq had to go, rana had to go and anyone else from that camp had to go..that's what began the rot..we have never recovered..we will have to start from scratch now!!

[*sallu*]

I mostly agree with you Easa. Except one thing: Moyo and YK have played way too long on reputation alone, and it is time to jettison them.

On a positive note, things are only going to improve now. :afridi

Well I don't think thats true at all

Younis has a triple hundred test score which was scored less than 12 months ago.
He was then our leading run scorer in the t20 world cup at a very good strike rate (thereby proving his ability in the limited overs format)
And then he also had a very good ODI series against Lanka.

As for Yousuf, he did well in the CT and has a couple of other scores here and there, but definitely hasn't been the same consistency wise since his comeback.

But Younis atleast, though it may not look like it, has some performances in the last 12 months to suggest he is not living off reputation.

And yes, Afridi is guaranteed to improve things for no other reason, apart from the fact that he will bring positivity into the side.
I don't see 8 fielders in the deep if Afridi is our captain in any test match in any situation.

[*sallu*]

And btw, when you lose 3 tests and 4 odis, all of them by a big margin (except the Sydney test) luck is not a factor

[Savak]

Ok..I remember Bangalore 05..we had a rubbish bowling line up but won that match..why? Because we played as a team..woolmer and inzi were a great partnership and brought the best out of some unproven talent..malik afridi yusuf younis shabbir razzaq kaneria hameed akmal were all unproven..but the became good players and if politics and fate hadn't destroyed things we could have come good..but alas people didn't like the type of unity being promoted in the team..deismamisation was the key so inzi had to go, yusuf had to go, razzaq had to go, rana had to go and anyone else from that camp had to go..that's what began the rot..we have never recovered..we will have to start from scratch now!!

We played out of our skin in that Indian tour, we went there with the weakest side ever up against the Strongest Indian side possible. But there was one big difference, Pakistan just wanted to win at all costs irrespective of the lack of talent in the team in comparison to the Indian side.

Dont believe me, just watch the final day's proceedings of the 3rd test and see literally each and every player dive around, putting their bodies on the line. Thats how badly they wanted it.

When you have a captain, coach who constantly spread a culture of fear, negativity, defensiveness, loosing, it trickles down to the rest of the squad. If things have to change it must start from the leadership.

[Desire]

its the result that matters. imran nazir is not as bad as he gives results. why did you drop him. i am not bad either. may be i cannot perform as much but certainly i will look better when i bowl and bat.

ok you wanna give more chance to team. fine . give them 2 years more. but i tell you pakistani cricket fans will still be saying,, umm.. nooo. aaah... give them more time.

absolotely pathetic!!!!1

[AZ]

Desire, if you're so damn good go and prove it and stop barking like a madman.

[Amjid Javed]

Easa,

I 1st started watching pakistan playing 1987 and have seen many ups and downs. Weve has some bad side and some brilliant sides in that time.

In past weve had world class match winners who have dragged poor sides victory. Right now we have no match winners and maybe one or two world class players. Poor results
will continue till we get the basics right and play as a team.

[tahaqureshi]

We played out of our skin in that Indian tour, we went there with the weakest side ever up against the Strongest Indian side possible. But there was one big difference, Pakistan just wanted to win at all costs irrespective of the lack of talent in the team in comparison to the Indian side.

Dont believe me, just watch the final day's proceedings of the 3rd test and see literally each and every player dive around, putting their bodies on the line. Thats how badly they wanted it.

When you have a captain, coach who constantly spread a culture of fear, negativity, defensiveness, loosing, it trickles down to the rest of the squad. If things have to change it must start from the leadership.

I agree.

And in this period of negativity, fear and defensiveness, only the truly talented players will come out unscathed.

Players like Asif, Aamer, Afridi and Ajmal will continue to perform because they are naturally so gifted.

But the others like Yousuf, Younis, the Akmal brothers etc will and are even now suffering and unable to perform.

[AZ]

I agree.

And in this period of negativity, fear and defensiveness, only the truly talented players will come out unscathed.

Players like Asif, Aamer, Afridi and Ajmal will continue to perform because they are naturally so gifted.

But the others like Yousuf, Younis, the Akmal brothers etc will and are even now suffering and unable to perform.

:)) :)) yea dude, Yousuf and Umar Akmal certainly aren't talented, are they

[AZ]

We played out of our skin in that Indian tour, we went there with the weakest side ever up against the Strongest Indian side possible. But there was one big difference, Pakistan just wanted to win at all costs irrespective of the lack of talent in the team in comparison to the Indian side.

Dont believe me, just watch the final day's proceedings of the 3rd test and see literally each and every player dive around, putting their bodies on the line. Thats how badly they wanted it.

When you have a captain, coach who constantly spread a culture of fear, negativity, defensiveness, loosing, it trickles down to the rest of the squad. If things have to change it must start from the leadership.

this is the 1st time I'm reading Inzamam's captaincy being described as brave and fearless.

[Amjid Javed]

I think current team would even struggle against West indies or bangladesh.

[AZ]

on the contrary, we shoudl arrange some matches with those teams to get back to winning ways :P

[cricket_fever]

I mostly agree with you Easa. Except one thing: Moyo and YK have played way too long on reputation alone, and it is time to jettison them.

On a positive note, things are only going to improve now. :afridi
i agree wholeheartedly with you momo

[Dr_Bassim]

We lost 3-0 in tests and are 4-0 down in one dayers and we are not that bad :26:
??

To cap it off, now that our weakness has been exposed we are trying to prove they are good enough to win ....

What have they won so far ?? (I'll leave out t20 because we might win that again. We are good for this, but the writer thinks we are not that bad in all formats.)

2-1 series loss in New Zealand.
Champions trophy loss to New Zealand.
Test series vs New Zealand 1-1 draw ( Rain Gods saving us from losing that series for sure)
3-0 walloping from Australia ( 4th ranked side in the world at the moment)
4-0 down in One days ( i am sure more of the same to follow)

Let me say the title of the thread should have been amended to
We are simply not that GOOD because

1. We over-hype our players like Umar Akmal was the next best thing in Pakistan cricket and a proven match-winner , and when they fail, we criticise them relentlessly, like Umar Akmal honeymoon period over...

2. We think we are very good, which is just on paper. On paper doesn't mean that in reality the lads are that good.

3. We do not have the same mental strength to compete with any foreign team. When the pressure is on , we will inevitably collapse.

4. Most of the cricketers we have are not selected on principles of meritocracy and performance, but are living on past performances.

5. In essence, our cricket team is a bunch of egoistical snobs, who are fighting for places on the team, instead of doing fans a favor by dropping out in favor of youth and fresh blood who could perform miles better.

Sadly, i do not see this saga ending anytime soon, but please do not think we are very good. We are good in village and county cricket, but not at professional level.