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  1. #1361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I don’t know about taking insult but I would avoid that stereotype. I made pretty much your comment to a Jewish lady, praising her people for their success. She immediately countered with “So does your classic WASP always succeed too?” I could have commented that I’m not all Anglo-Saxon, but her satire was accurate in that I had made a broad unquantified generalisation.
    I never said they were all rich or all anti socialist, however, many of them are, it is a plain fact backed up by several stats but you don't quite like facts.

  2. #1362
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    What is more disheartening in this thread above all is how the Zionist propaganda has cast a veil upon the hearts of the so called intelligent.

  3. #1363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    But it is also a generalised term that can also be used as a dog whistle for racists and is therefore easily misunderstood, so for that reason I would avoid it altogether.

    ‘Soros’ is another example of a dog whistle which I heard on the march the other day. It was made by fascists who implied that the marchers were useful idiots for the alleged ‘International Jewish Conspiracy’.

    @James sums this up better than I further up.
    But does this mean you agree Zionism is a political movement or not?

  4. #1364
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    Quote Originally Posted by R3verse Swing View Post
    But does this mean you agree Zionism is a political movement or not?
    I wouldn’t aggregate various stands of support for the state of Israel into one movement. There’s no Illuminati, there’s no International Jewish Banking Conspiracy. I think there are loosely affiliated groups who support the state of Israel such as the US fundamentalist churches.

  5. #1365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I wouldn’t aggregate various stands of support for the state of Israel into one movement. There’s no Illuminati, there’s no International Jewish Banking Conspiracy. I think there are loosely affiliated groups who support the state of Israel such as the US fundamentalist churches.
    I disagree, there are numerous international and Israel-based Zionist movements which encourages smaller and otherwise unaffiliated groups to join together under the Zionist banner. Zionism also has a clear mission statement and universally agreed upon definition. So I would say that it is a number of movements all aiming for the same goal (although they do differ in terms of a one-state or two-state solution and how to get there).

  6. #1366
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I wouldn’t consider this fact to be antisemitic. I also wouldn’t go around talking to Jews about it in case it was taken the wrong way - but let’s be honest, as a community they have done extremely well and this should be recognised.
    I certainly learned my lesson not to make generalisations about a race.

  7. #1367
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I disagree, there are numerous international and Israel-based Zionist movements which encourages smaller and otherwise unaffiliated groups to join together under the Zionist banner. Zionism also has a clear mission statement and universally agreed upon definition. So I would say that it is a number of movements all aiming for the same goal (although they do differ in terms of a one-state or two-state solution and how to get there).
    A number of movements have the same mission statement, but different goals? Doesn’t make sense.... what is the common mission statement?

  8. #1368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I certainly learned my lesson not to make generalisations about a race.
    Jews aren’t a race though, regardless of what some (nowhere near all) Jews claim. This would be impossible given that anyone of any racial, ethnic, national or cultural background can convert to Judaism (confirmed by all strands of Jewish law).

    There are many ethnic communities of Jews such as American Jews, Ashkenazi (Roman-European) Jews, Sephardi (Iberian) Jews and Beta Israel (Ethiopian) Jews.

    What it is more accurate to say is that there is a diverse Jewish diaspora.

    Jews come in all shapes, sizes, appearances, colours and creeds. The only thing they have in common is that they follow the religion of Judaism.

  9. #1369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    A number of movements have the same mission statement, but different goals? Doesn’t make sense.... what is the common mission statement?
    To establish a permanent, noncontroversial and politically untouchable nation-state for the world’s Jews, that all Jews can become citizens of if they so wish. That has not been achieved yet, hence the Zionist movement actively exists.

  10. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Jews aren’t a race though, regardless of what some (nowhere near all) Jews claim. This would be impossible given that anyone of any racial, ethnic, national or cultural background can convert to Judaism (confirmed by all strands of Jewish law).

    There are many ethnic communities of Jews such as American Jews, Ashkenazi (Roman-European) Jews, Sephardi (Iberian) Jews and Beta Israel (Ethiopian) Jews.

    What it is more accurate to say is that there is a diverse Jewish diaspora.

    Jews come in all shapes, sizes, appearances, colours and creeds. The only thing they have in common is that they follow the religion of Judaism.
    You can be a Jew without following Judaism as many atheist Jews have pointed out to me, as they say it is an ethnicity/tribe, they could even convert to Christianity and Islam etc but they would still remain a Jew. Bonkers to me but that's what they tell me.

  11. #1371
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    Quote Originally Posted by irfan View Post
    You can be a Jew without following Judaism as many atheist Jews have pointed out to me, as they say it is an ethnicity/tribe, they could even convert to Christianity and Islam etc but they would still remain a Jew. Bonkers to me but that's what they tell me.
    Depends on whether they are from Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Liberal or Reconstructionist background. But yes that is the view of some Jews.

  12. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    To establish a permanent, noncontroversial and politically untouchable nation-state for the world’s Jews, that all Jews can become citizens of if they so wish. That has not been achieved yet, hence the Zionist movement actively exists.
    Thanks.

    What do you mean by politically untouchable?

  13. #1373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Thanks.

    What do you mean by politically untouchable?
    Not like it is now i.e. its very existence is constantly up for debate and it has an unofficial capital city because the real capital city is disputed territory. Zionists either claim the whole of the “Land of Israel” in extreme cases, or alternative some Zionists will gladly give portions of “Israel” to the Palestinians as long as they get to keep the whole of Jerusalem. This latter point has been at a lethal impasse for decades.

  14. #1374
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    New polling data has come to light which actually shows that 'antisemitic' attitudes in Labour have actually decreased under Corbyn

    https://skwawkbox.org/2018/03/29/exc...-under-corbyn/

  15. #1375
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Not like it is now i.e. its very existence is constantly up for debate and it has an unofficial capital city because the real capital city is disputed territory. Zionists either claim the whole of the “Land of Israel” in extreme cases, or alternative some Zionists will gladly give portions of “Israel” to the Palestinians as long as they get to keep the whole of Jerusalem. This latter point has been at a lethal impasse for decades.
    Ah, as in some people calling it a counterfeit state, despite UN recognition of certain boundary lines.

    You have plainly given this a lot of thought. I am rather impressed.

  16. #1376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Ah, as in some people calling it a counterfeit state, despite UN recognition of certain boundary lines.

    You have plainly given this a lot of thought. I am rather impressed.
    Interested in the topic.

  17. #1377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    To these eyes you have made the sort of generalisation that Islamophobes like to make about Islam, about taqqiya and population takeover and Sharia enforcement and dhimmi and so on.

    I think the biggest threats to the world are climate change and nuclear war.
    I have no idea what you mean . What I have stated is no generalisation but facts and accepted viewpoints.

    You have mentioned Taqqiya in return which isnt even mainstream Islamic thought.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  18. #1378
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    Quote Originally Posted by irfan View Post
    You can be a Jew without following Judaism as many atheist Jews have pointed out to me, as they say it is an ethnicity/tribe, they could even convert to Christianity and Islam etc but they would still remain a Jew. Bonkers to me but that's what they tell me.
    Thats all nonsense regardless what they say.

    A Jew is someone who follows the religion of Judaism. There are black Jews and white Jews, do you really believe both are the same race?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  19. #1379
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    I have no idea what you mean . What I have stated is no generalisation but facts and accepted viewpoints.

    You have mentioned Taqqiya in return which isnt even mainstream Islamic thought.
    I am not talking about Islam.

    I drew a comparison between your statement about Zionism being the biggest threat to the world today, and Islamophobes, who have accepted viewpoints too - to other Islamophobes - and believe that Islam is the biggest threat to the world today.

    I seek to pare away the distortions and hyperbole around both these ideas.

  20. #1380
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Thats all nonsense regardless what they say.

    A Jew is someone who follows the religion of Judaism. There are black Jews and white Jews, do you really believe both are the same race?
    HM Gov categorises Jews as an ethnic minority.

  21. #1381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    HM Gov categorises Jews as an ethnic minority.
    Correct. And that's why when someone non-Jewish converts to Judaism and becomes a Jew, they undergo a miracle of nature and change their ethnicity/race in the eyes of UK law. Makes one wonder how/who persuaded the UK Parliament to incorporate this miracle of nature into UK legislation. (same goes for Sikhs).


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  22. #1382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Correct. And that's why when someone non-Jewish converts to Judaism and becomes a Jew, they undergo a miracle of nature and change their ethnicity/race in the eyes of UK law. Makes one wonder how/who persuaded the UK Parliament to incorporate this miracle of nature into UK legislation. (same goes for Sikhs).
    Yep, you’d think that an overnight DNA transplant would be a slightly trickier breakthrough to achieve in human medicine. Apparently not. According to English law, immersing yourself in a pool of water will suffice.

    (I would add that many Jews do not view their being a Jew as a matter of race.)
    Last edited by James; 30th March 2018 at 19:59.

  23. #1383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I am not talking about Islam.

    I drew a comparison between your statement about Zionism being the biggest threat to the world today, and Islamophobes, who have accepted viewpoints too - to other Islamophobes - and believe that Islam is the biggest threat to the world today.

    I seek to pare away the distortions and hyperbole around both these ideas.
    Zionism is the biggest threat in terms of a political entity. Zionists control the US government, Nato, European governments and its due to them the middle east has seen millions of people killed, nations destoryed. They are now wanting more wars with Syria and Iran, knowing this will involve Russia.
    Last edited by AssassinatedDevil; 31st March 2018 at 06:01.


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  24. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    HM Gov categorises Jews as an ethnic minority.
    So? Do you live your life just following government views or do you use your own mind to determine what is correct or not?


    Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of Sheep

  25. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    So? Do you live your life just following government views or do you use your own mind to determine what is correct or not?
    I follow the Equality Act 2010. I suggest that you do too.

  26. #1386
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Yep, you’d think that an overnight DNA transplant would be a slightly trickier breakthrough to achieve in human medicine. Apparently not. According to English law, immersing yourself in a pool of water will suffice.

    (I would add that many Jews do not view their being a Jew as a matter of race.)
    Since there is no biological evidence for “race” - the genetic difference is negligible and accounts only for diversity within the species - I would argue that race is a social construct like religion.

  27. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Since there is no biological evidence for “race” - the genetic difference is negligible and accounts only for diversity within the species - I would argue that race is a social construct like religion.
    That’s one way of looking at it, definitely. The Big W sums it up well:

    “A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as inherently distinct by society. First used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations, by the 17th century the term race began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits. Modern scholarship regards race as a social construct, that is, a symbolic identity created to establish some cultural meaning. While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race is not an inherent physical or biological quality.”

  28. #1388
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    Big W ?

  29. #1389
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    Wikipedia

  30. #1390
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  31. #1391
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    What is Lord Sugar doing here, comparing Corbyn to Hindenburg for sharing a platform with some very nasty people and turning a blind eye?
    Last edited by Robert; 31st March 2018 at 10:31.

  32. #1392
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    At a time when Labour should be capitalising on the differences within the Tory party they are instead fighting each other over antisemitism and other issues.

  33. #1393
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    Wonder where the media/right wing/Blairite outrage is regarding the Board of Deputies' statement on the killing of unarmed Palestinian protesters in the Right of Return rally.

    Essentially blamed the victims.

  34. #1394
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    And now Corbyn is being attacked again as being anti-Semitic ......for ....wait for it ..... attending a Jewish religious even organised by a Jewish group!

    Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised for attending a Passover event with a leftwing Jewish group highly critical of mainstream Jewish communal bodies, including describing the protests against the Labour leader as “faux-outrage greased with hypocrisy and opportunism”.

    The Jewish comedians David Baddiel and David Schneider said MPs and others should not immediately dismiss Jewdas.

    “They are just Jews who disagree with other Jews ... To make out that it’s somehow antisemitic for him to spend Seder with them just because they’re far left is balls,” Baddiel wrote on Twitter.

    Schneider tweeted: “‘Boo! Corbyn needs to get out and meets some Jews!’ (Corbyn spends Passover with some Jews at Jewdas) ‘Boo! Not those Jews!’”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...l-jewish-event


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  35. #1395
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    A ludicrous scenario, however my opinion is that it was really bad timing for Jeremy to risk stoking the fire in any way after the week that the Labour Party has had. He is beginning to remind me of Ned Stark: the decent and honest man who plays the game of thrones, but is unable to win it because he is too decent and too honest. Even Momentum who have been Jeremy’s biggest supporters are now saying that the Party has an unconscious bias issue regarding the Jewish community. So although he did not do anything wrong, it was not smart, and the explanation by Labour that it was not in the work diary and in his personal time is just not good enough. In his job position, the eyes of the nation are on him 24/7 - that is what politicians sign up for - and he is far too prominent a public figure to be expecting to get away with such an excuse.

  36. #1396
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    He's never been smart about whom he shares a platform with. He naturally sides aganst people protesting against power such as Mear One, but he should cast a more critical eye on those people and consider whether he is going to get hurt by association.

  37. #1397
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    What a con job. Corbyn is anti jew err because he goes to a Seder organised by Jews...

    If you wanted confirmation we live in completely crooked Orwellian times just marvel at the ** being spouted here.

    The psychopaths in charge are so drunk on power and convinced of their own invincibility they are overplaying their hand. This will come crashing down on them at some point.

    Jewdas the supposed fringe group today increased their Twitter following above that of the Board of Deputies of British Jews (read Zionists) who had claimed Jewdas were not 'mainstream' or 'representative

    Jewdas are a left wing kick posterior type outfit more in tune with younger Jews who have righteous and deserved contempt for the Zionist State In Levant(ZSIL)

  38. #1398
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    Petition Against AS Witchhunt

    https://www.change.org/p/labour-agai...share_petition

    Initial signatories include:

    Moshé Machover, Israeli socialist and co-founder of Matzpen
    Jackie Walker, chair of Labour Against the Witchhunt (and ex vice-chair of Momentum)
    Noam Chomsky, author
    Asa Winstanley, investigative journalist
    Mick Brooks, political secretary, Labour Representation Committee
    Deborah Hobson and Hassan Ahmed, co-chairs Grassroots Black Left
    Mike Cushman, chair Free Speech on Israel
    Lee Rock, Sheffield Labour Left List
    Graham Bash
    Pete Firmin
    Suzanne Gannon
    Ian Malcolm-Walker
    Keith Henderson
    Louise Reecejones
    Patrick Hall
    Chris Knight
    Last edited by s28; 5th April 2018 at 01:40.

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  40. #1400
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    Labour have a new supporter.


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    Not the sort of help he is looking for.

  42. #1402
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    Establishment throwing everything they can at Corbyn but I suspect Labour will be polling 50% soon

    The guy is PM in waiting

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    If you can get someone notoriously anti voting like Russell Brand to vote for you, you've gotta be special

  44. #1404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    If you can get someone notoriously anti voting like Russell Brand to vote for you, you've gotta be special
    Indeed. It worked so well for Ed Miliband after all.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...uld-be-worried

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    Indeed. It worked so well for Ed Miliband after all.


    https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...uld-be-worried
    I didn't say Corbyn will win though. I'm eternally grateful for Ed voting against war in Syria, could be WW3 that one.

  46. #1406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adijazz1706 View Post
    I didn't say Corbyn will win though. I'm eternally grateful for Ed voting against war in Syria, could be WW3 that one.
    Fair point. Ironically the Tories have over the past 12 months stolen a lot of Ed’s policies which they previously claimed were mad.

  47. #1407
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    Meanwhile....

    “Marc Wadsworth expelled from Labour over remarks at antisemitism event”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tisemitism-row

  48. #1408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    Meanwhile....

    “Marc Wadsworth expelled from Labour over remarks at antisemitism event”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tisemitism-row

    Good to see that Labour are starting to grasp the nettle, an encouraging sign.

  49. #1409
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    Has Peak Corbyn come and gone?

  50. #1410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    By 2020 it will be quite clear that all the reasons that Brexiteers voted for 'out' (immigration, paying in to the EU, European Court, not needing to follow EU rules in many areas etc) are not going to work out as they were told.

    * EU immigration numbers will not be cut - not if the NHS, Nursing homes and home care providers are going to keep on functioning, not if the restaurants and holiday venues are going to keep on satisfying their customers, not if the East Anglian farmers are going to have their summer crops picked and sent to supermarkets.

    *There will need to be a 'Transition period' after 2019, lasting perhaps years, during which we will have to keep on paying into the EU and be subject to the European Court.

    * If Britain wishes to keep on selling goods and services into the EU, then these goods and services will have to comply with EU rules.

    Basically, the only thing that will change is the UK government not sitting at the decision making table of the EU. That and the fact that prices will go up (due to £ going down, plus reduced trade due to tariffs and additional red tape at ports trading with the EU).

    Britain might be in the middle of a great big recession by then - all due to Brexiteers, with the Tories getting the blame for the whole mess.

    A week is a long time in politics. By 2020 the Tories may have nowhere to hide.

    Corbyn just has to sit tight, survive the back stabbing from the Blairites, and wait for the realities of the ramifications of Brexit to become clearer to the Brexiteers, and then see the Tories disintegrate as a result and hand the election on a plate to the Corbynistas.
    I posted the above 15 months ago. Should have been a clairvoyant!


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  51. #1411
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    Leave Tories switching to the Kippers will translate into how many lost seats, I wonder?

    It depends when the GE is and how hard Brexit hurts us.

    Interestingly, Labour appear to be heading for wipeout in Scotland - just one MP on current polling.

  52. #1412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Leave Tories switching to the Kippers will translate into how many lost seats, I wonder?

    It depends when the GE is and how hard Brexit hurts us.

    Interestingly, Labour appear to be heading for wipeout in Scotland - just one MP on current polling.
    I bumped up the thread primary for the points in the post #1410 above. Right now, how the Scots vote or whether the Tory voters switch to the Kippers is the last thing on the publics mind,


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  53. #1413
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    The Conservatives will probably cling onto government for a while yet, England south of Sheffield is massively biased towards the Tories and there are way too many safe blue seats. Labour need a relaunch in Scotland in order to compete.

  54. #1414
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    That isn't what Electoral Calculus says

  55. #1415
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  56. #1416
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    @s28, the current situation has grown so bad - with the hard-right ERG holding May to ransom, fearing loss of power more that hard Brexit, putting Party over Country - that I think the easiest path through would be a general election followed by a Corbyn-led left group (Labour-SDP-Lib Dem) government navigating through a soft Brexit, reducing damage to the economy.

    It would have to have enough seats to overcome the right group (Tories, DUP, Labour traitors, maybe UKIP).

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