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  1. #1121
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    UKIP is just Tory now.

    General Election a straight fight between right wing&fascists Tories

    vs

    Left/Progressive Labour

    There is no Lib Dem 'fightback' the only alternative to Conservatives/UKIP is Labour

    Are you going to get on board and vote Labour Robert or just enable the Tory/Fascists?
    Absolutely no point voting Labour where I am. But the LD has a chance of unseating the Tory MP.

  2. #1122
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    Turnout was c.30% so hardly a ringing endorsement of Democracy let alone Tory rule. The Tory bias of the media really needs to be tackled. Social media gives some hope for the future. Younger generation don't get their views from MSM.

  3. #1123
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    I was in the room for the count today, for my part of the UK.

    I spoke to a young Labourite, who was looking sombrely at the board showing four red win wards in over a hundred.

    I told her I had voted Labour for thirty years but switched in 2016 to LD. She asked me why. Corbyn, I said. She nodded and replied that she was going to stay in her party and outlast him. She was only thirty after all. I told her I admired her for that, staying in her party to fight for its soul. Maybe one day you'll come back? - she asked. Never say never, I replied

  4. #1124
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    Well done Andy Burnham, great to see his win.

  5. #1125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Well done Andy Burnham, great to see his win.

    Andy Burnham, Sadiq Khan etc - these are the type of people who will bring Labour back into power once Labour members realise that the current Corbyn experiment will get them nowhere.

  6. #1126
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    I was surprised when Burnham did not win the leadership race. Labour would be in a much better position at the moment if he had done so. He still may be a future Prime Minister.

  7. #1127
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    lol you clearly know nothing about Labour selectorate

  8. #1128
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I was surprised when Burnham did not win the leadership race. Labour would be in a much better position at the moment if he had done so. He still may be a future Prime Minister.
    The tragedy is that there is so much Labour front-bench talent - Burnham, Starmer, Cooper, Lewis, Rachel Reeves, Jarvis - mostly unused with third-raters in their places.

  9. #1129
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    lol you clearly know nothing about Labour selectorate
    I don't know a great deal about a lot of things, however I do know that if Andy Burnham was the Labour leader then they would have my vote like they used to, they would have the vote of many people I know, and they would be polling considerably above 26% with YouGov.

  10. #1130
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I don't know a great deal about a lot of things, however I do know that if Andy Burnham was the Labour leader then they would have my vote like they used to, they would have the vote of many people I know, and they would be polling considerably above 26% with YouGov.
    They would have my vote too.

  11. #1131
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I don't know a great deal about a lot of things, however I do know that if Andy Burnham was the Labour leader then they would have my vote like they used to, they would have the vote of many people I know, and they would be polling considerably above 26% with YouGov.
    They've just had a LE with similar share of vote to Miliband and Brown election results.

    Burnham lost badly to Corbyn in the Labour selection race so whilst he might have gained the vote of smug metropolitan Tories who work in medium flying management roles he would have lost a lot of the traditional Labour vote because his policies are so wet and centrist

  12. #1132
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    He would have lost a lot of the traditional Labour vote because his policies are so wet and centrist
    I doubt that, there will always be several million people who are diehard Labour because of their championing of the union movement, history as the working people's party and their protection of the NHS.

    It's the drifting undecided voters who (these days anyway) hold the key to helping Labour form a government, and a guy like Burnham would have been very adept at quietly hoovering up a bunch of those votes - he comes across as refreshing, modest and likeable, but also assertive.

  13. #1133
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I doubt that, there will always be several million people who are diehard Labour because of their championing of the union movement, history as the working people's party and their protection of the NHS.

    It's the drifting undecided voters who (these days anyway) hold the key to helping Labour form a government, and a guy like Burnham would have been very adept at quietly hoovering up a bunch of those votes - he comes across as refreshing, modest and likeable, but also assertive.
    Yep. This is how Blair won three elections. Labour have to engage the centre to win, get outside their hardcore support. Having a big social media fan club isn't enough, the people might buy what Labour are selling but they need a better chief salesman than hapless Corbyn and sinister McDonnell. Plus, Labour need activists on the doorsteps, not Socialism fans who hit Like and never exit their echo chamber.

    I want to see that Progressive Coalition to oppose Tory rule but Corbyn and McDonnell are so toxic that it will not happen.

  14. #1134
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    Indeed, Corbyn is at least clearly a decent thing trying to do the right thing by Britons - McDonnell meanwhile seems to operate through his own agenda and does not inspire trust.

  15. #1135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Conservative councillor elected in the east of Glasgow. Shettleston - the only place where life expectancy is falling in the UK.

    Labour lose control of Glasgow City Council for the first time in 40 years.
    Its strange isn't it. However Glasgow has been historically quite a divided city. People who have never seen inside a church before are staunchly protestant. Just today I was slowed down by an Orange walk which involves people commemorating the battle of the boyne centuries ago ( watch Trainspotting 2 to get an idea of the type of people who join these walks!).

    These people are also staunchly pro union who see the SNP as an almost treasonous force looking to break up their country. They feel they have no option but to go to the Tories to keep the country together. It really has nothing to do with Tory policy etc its a simply that they are seen as the party that can keep the UK together.

    Labour have lost the council but lets put it into perspective. A down and out labour party ( Scottish Labour is probably the most awful party in the UK) has lost control after 40 years ( eventually was going to happen) but the SNP who are having their day in the sun have still not managed to seize control. If I was Sturgeon I'd be quite worried about this.

    I've been a Labour man through and through ( despite a brief fliration with independence based mainly on romanticism, I'm back to my Labour roots) and the majority of people I speak to who are ex Labour voters have tremendous respect for Corbyn. Huge respect almost but they feel the labour party is in disarray...not because of Corbyn but because of the actions of the anti Corbyn sections within the party. The timings of resignations etc to try and undermine Corbyn when the Tories were all over the place have lost many voters. Those Labour MPs having a go at Corbyn publicly need to understand that he isn't the problem, its their actions that have got us into this mess.

  16. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Labour have lost the council but lets put it into perspective. A down and out labour party ( Scottish Labour is probably the most awful party in the UK) has lost control after 40 years ( eventually was going to happen) but the SNP who are having their day in the sun have still not managed to seize control. If I was Sturgeon I'd be quite worried about this.
    Lots of interesting points DV however I think the main reason the SNP didn't seize control of more councils is due to the single transferable voting system - it was designed so that one party didn't have absolute control over a council. Nevertheless, their (the SNP) support is clearly declining - they got 50% of the vote share at the 2015 general election, 46.5% last year during the Scottish parliament elections and are currently polling around 41/42% for next months election. But under the FPTP voting system that is still enough for them to win lots of seats albeit it's low enough to kill their dreams of winning another independence referendum imo.

    I think Labour need a better leader in Scotland - Kezia Dugdale is really uninspiring. The Tories resurgence north of the border is as much to do with Ruth Davidson as it does the party or Theresa May - on some of the election literature last year they didn't even mention the word 'Conservative', it was all about 'vote Ruth Davidson'. Are there any up and coming figures within the Scottish Labour setup?

  17. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Its strange isn't it. However Glasgow has been historically quite a divided city. People who have never seen inside a church before are staunchly protestant. Just today I was slowed down by an Orange walk which involves people commemorating the battle of the boyne centuries ago ( watch Trainspotting 2 to get an idea of the type of people who join these walks!).

    These people are also staunchly pro union who see the SNP as an almost treasonous force looking to break up their country. They feel they have no option but to go to the Tories to keep the country together. It really has nothing to do with Tory policy etc its a simply that they are seen as the party that can keep the UK together.

    Labour have lost the council but lets put it into perspective. A down and out labour party ( Scottish Labour is probably the most awful party in the UK) has lost control after 40 years ( eventually was going to happen) but the SNP who are having their day in the sun have still not managed to seize control. If I was Sturgeon I'd be quite worried about this.

    I've been a Labour man through and through ( despite a brief fliration with independence based mainly on romanticism, I'm back to my Labour roots) and the majority of people I speak to who are ex Labour voters have tremendous respect for Corbyn. Huge respect almost but they feel the labour party is in disarray...not because of Corbyn but because of the actions of the anti Corbyn sections within the party. The timings of resignations etc to try and undermine Corbyn when the Tories were all over the place have lost many voters. Those Labour MPs having a go at Corbyn publicly need to understand that he isn't the problem, its their actions that have got us into this mess.
    Interesting reading, Craig Murray puts paid to the MSM meme of a resurgent Tory wave in Scotland.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...super-triumph/

  18. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by irfan View Post
    Interesting reading, Craig Murray puts paid to the MSM meme of a resurgent Tory wave in Scotland.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archi...super-triumph/
    Not disputing what Craig Murray has said. As gabbar Singh said a lot of Tory gains are due to the electoral system.

    However the Tory party are now in opposition in Scottish Parliament and he second largest political party in council elections.

    Nicola has made it a habit of saying the Westminster Tory government has no mandate in Scotland. Fair enough.

    The words sound a bit hollow though when they are in a good position in regional bodies.

    Based on my limited and of course anecdotal experience of talking to people I think we are in for a surprise come the Westminster elections.

  19. #1139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    Lots of interesting points DV however I think the main reason the SNP didn't seize control of more councils is due to the single transferable voting system - it was designed so that one party didn't have absolute control over a council. Nevertheless, their (the SNP) support is clearly declining - they got 50% of the vote share at the 2015 general election, 46.5% last year during the Scottish parliament elections and are currently polling around 41/42% for next months election. But under the FPTP voting system that is still enough for them to win lots of seats albeit it's low enough to kill their dreams of winning another independence referendum imo.

    I think Labour need a better leader in Scotland - Kezia Dugdale is really uninspiring. The Tories resurgence north of the border is as much to do with Ruth Davidson as it does the party or Theresa May - on some of the election literature last year they didn't even mention the word 'Conservative', it was all about 'vote Ruth Davidson'. Are there any up and coming figures within the Scottish Labour setup?
    Yeah I think indy ref2 is dead. Ideal scenario for the nats is that May refuses it and then they can whinge for a few years while continuing to dominate local elections.

    Ruth Davidson seems like an imbecile. I think her popularity is overrated and isn't much of a reason for why people vote Tory.

    Unfortunately no matter who Scottish Labour/Conservatives have as leaders the real leaders are seen as May/Corbyn. Dugdale is also useless. No real commanding figures in Scottish politics at all bar Nicola.

  20. #1140
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    This Town Has Been Labour Since 1919. It's About To Switch To The Tories
    BuzzFeed News went to the Labour heartland of Newcastle-under-Lyme to witness a seismic change happening in British politics.
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/...A8K#.xb5JVPew4

  21. #1141
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    Team Corbyn aren't happy with buzzfeed.

    BuzzFeed News Has Been Denied Access To Campaign Events After Our Interview With The Labour Leader
    Corbyn also claimed to BBC News that he had not told BuzzFeed News he would stay on as leader even if he lost the election. But a recording of the interview proves otherwise.
    https://www.buzzfeed.com/hannahaloth...gmB#.mcWog70QD

  22. #1142
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  23. #1143
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    Disgraceful proposals by Theresa May to push the return of fox hunting

  24. #1144
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    She's certainly not a people person typical Tory sociopath

    This is a people's person. Every day of this campaign the fake gap in the fake polls will close



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  26. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Disgraceful proposals by Theresa May to push the return of fox hunting
    People seem to be outraged about the fox hunt issue on twitter, do you think it can have any serious impact on the elections?

  27. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poutine View Post
    People seem to be outraged about the fox hunt issue on twitter, do you think it can have any serious impact on the elections?
    You never know what issue will cut through with people. Britons pride themselves as a nation of animal lovers. Animal acts have won Britains Got Talent. MayBot went off piste without authority of her controllers and she may well have lost the election on the back of it

    They say it takes years to build a reputation and seconds to lose one

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    I think it will have an impact. Maybe not on the final result but on the vote share

  29. #1149
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    I think the Tory voters simply don't care about fox hunting either way, so it won't hurt much. The countryside Tories will push May for it. It's not a big deal to me. A bunch of people dress in red and gallop after a fox and fail to catch it nine times in ten. The Commons will vote it down anyway.
    Last edited by Robert; 10th May 2017 at 06:57.

  30. #1150
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    So on one hand you think Tories going to win a landslide on Brexit and you think a Hard Brexit hard right bunch of Tory MPs aren't going to feel emboldened to vote fox hunting back in ?

  31. #1151
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    So on one hand you think Tories going to win a landslide on Brexit and you think a Hard Brexit hard right bunch of Tory MPs aren't going to feel emboldened to vote fox hunting back in ?
    1. I think they will have a majority of about 80.

    2. It depends how many Tories vote against the private member's bill. I'm sure some townie Tories will vote against such a bill, but those in the shires will mostly be in favour.

  32. #1152
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post

    Lovely promo but in the end it doesn't matter, all the satanists will vote the Tories who will destroy Labour in the general election.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  33. #1153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    1. I think they will have a majority of about 80.
    Oh dear. The bookies have the Tories on 398 seats and Labour on 158, with the Lib Dems just 19.

    That means a majority of around 150.

    Good Gawd no.

  34. #1154
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    Same bookies who had Corbyn at 200-1 for Labour leader ? or Leicester at 5000-1 ?

  35. #1155
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    Well, the bookies do make lots of money, so I think they are usually right.

  36. #1156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Oh dear. The bookies have the Tories on 398 seats and Labour on 158, with the Lib Dems just 19.

    That means a majority of around 150.

    Good Gawd no.
    This is a very strange election.

    As you know, I'm an old-fashioned very liberal Conservative. There's not much daylight between myself and Dr David Owen, or Andy Burnham. I generally like Theresa May, but there are a number of our policies which enrage me.

    I think that May's pretext for this election - a strong mandate in Brexit negotiations - has evolved from a flimsy pretext to reality, because the recent Greek revelations and the behaviour of "President" Juncker at Number Ten have made it clear to me that we need to coordinate a very Hard Brexit with entry into Trump's renegotiated North Atlantic Free Trade Area.

    So I will vote the usual way.

    But what is ironic is that any any other election year, I would vote for Corbyn's Labour against my own party because in his "nutty" manifesto I actually support:

    1. Free university fees for all,
    2. Renationalisation of the railways,
    3. Elevation of NHS spending to the same percentage of GDP as the rest of Northern Europe.
    4. Higher taxes.

    It's amusing that old and new Labour supporters - including you - struggle to find a kind word for Corbyn, but I'm a Tory who loves four of his key policies!

    And I find the attacks on his admittedly ludicrous nuclear weapons policy a bit silly. Who would we nuke without American and French support? Argentina? Spain? The Chagos islanders? It's too silly for words.

  37. #1157
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    Even awful SDP relic Polly Toynbee seems to agree it's a good manifesto



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    Some good-natured and highly logical policies have been proposed. And I really hate the idea of fox hunting.

    What I'd like to see next from Labour is the financial figures for their proposals. So I will read the imminent manifesto with interest. If it's convincing - Mr Corbyn will get my vote.

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    Why have I been sent two polling cards ? one is in the West Midlands and one is in the East Midlands


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  40. #1160
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Some good-natured and highly logical policies have been proposed. And I really hate the idea of fox hunting.

    What I'd like to see next from Labour is the financial figures for their proposals. So I will read the imminent manifesto with interest. If it's convincing - Mr Corbyn will get my vote.

    Vote Labour


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  41. #1161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post

    It's amusing that old and new Labour supporters - including you - struggle to find a kind word for Corbyn, but I'm a Tory who loves four of his key policies!
    I've said I think he is a nice man and a good constituency MP. I like a lot of his policies. I have zero trust in his ability to deliver them, even if he had a credible plan for paying for them.

  42. #1162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    This is a very strange election.

    As you know, I'm an old-fashioned very liberal Conservative. There's not much daylight between myself and Dr David Owen, or Andy Burnham. I generally like Theresa May, but there are a number of our policies which enrage me.

    I think that May's pretext for this election - a strong mandate in Brexit negotiations - has evolved from a flimsy pretext to reality, because the recent Greek revelations and the behaviour of "President" Juncker at Number Ten have made it clear to me that we need to coordinate a very Hard Brexit with entry into Trump's renegotiated North Atlantic Free Trade Area.

    So I will vote the usual way.

    But what is ironic is that any any other election year, I would vote for Corbyn's Labour against my own party because in his "nutty" manifesto I actually support:

    1. Free university fees for all,
    2. Renationalisation of the railways,
    3. Elevation of NHS spending to the same percentage of GDP as the rest of Northern Europe.
    4. Higher taxes.

    It's amusing that old and new Labour supporters - including you - struggle to find a kind word for Corbyn, but I'm a Tory who loves four of his key policies!

    And I find the attacks on his admittedly ludicrous nuclear weapons policy a bit silly. Who would we nuke without American and French support? Argentina? Spain? The Chagos islanders? It's too silly for words.
    Go on Junaids! @Robert has been exposed. I was right all along about his hostility towards Corbyn but it's based mostly on superficial reasons


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I've said I think he is a nice man and a good constituency MP. I like a lot of his policies. I have zero trust in his ability to deliver them, even if he had a credible plan for paying for them.
    Fair enough.

    I largely agree.

    I still think he is the transition stage that Labour had to have. Blair and Brown are to the right of me. And I'm a Tory!

    For the duration of the last government, my mother claimed that the Cameron coalition was illegitimate because the Tories hadn't won.

    But of course the UKIP vote has returned to Mother Theresa, and we see where things really stand.

    I actually think that the Liberals, Labour and SNP should form an electoral pact and not compete against one another with a view to forming a progressive anti-austerity anti-Brexit coalition.

    I wouldn't vote for that. But it's what they should do.

  44. #1164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Fair enough.

    I largely agree.

    I still think he is the transition stage that Labour had to have. Blair and Brown are to the right of me. And I'm a Tory!

    I actually think that the Liberals, Labour and SNP should form an electoral pact and not compete against one another with a view to forming a progressive anti-austerity anti-Brexit coalition
    I concur, but with Corbyn as Labour leader it won't happen for the Libs, and I don't see the Scot Nats in Coalition with any party anyway.

    There will be some low-level electoral pacts made between Libs and Greens which may get them another MP apiece.

    I think we are looking at the death of the Labour Party as an election-winning force. It will be reduced to a rump. Brexit has changed everything and a lot of old Labourites have gone through the Kippers to Tory. It's hard to see who Labour stands for now. Students and public sector workers?

    Maybe a new centre-left party will form to take on the Tories. Such things have happened in Greece and Spain but those countries have PR. En Marche came out of nowhere too. Though with FPTP it is unlikely here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I concur, but with Corbyn as Labour leader it won't happen for the Libs, and I don't see the Scot Nats in Coalition with any party anyway.

    There will be some low-level electoral pacts made between Libs and Greens which may get them another MP apiece.

    I think we are looking at the death of the Labour Party as an election-winning force. It will be reduced to a rump. Brexit has changed everything and a lot of old Labourites have gone through the Kippers to Tory. It's hard to see who Labour stands for now. Students and public sector workers?

    Maybe a new centre-left party will form to take on the Tories. Such things have happened in Greece and Spain but those countries have PR. En Marche came out of nowhere too. Though with FPTP it is unlikely here.
    Funnily enough, Corbyn has the Labour vote up 2% from Miliband. It's only a landslide because UKIP voters are coming home to Mother Theresa.

    Perhaps a Labour-SNP coalition in the future is not that far-fetched.

  46. #1166
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    I believe Miliband achieved 30% in GE2015 and Gordon Brown got 29% in GE2010 so 32% is brilliant

    Still 4 weeks before election ; Manifesto not out yet but leaks polling well ; Momentum campaign kickstarting this weekend ; Theresa May still dodging direct debate with Corbyn

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  47. #1167
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    Without the legions of UKIP old boys flocking back to vote for the Tories, we'd have a very decent contest on here and possibly another hung parliament.

  48. #1168
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    Even the Unions accept that Corbyn's Labour have no chance of winning this election.

    Labour’s election campaign will be a “success” if the party holds 200 seats, the general secretary of Unite has said, a result that would be the party’s worst since 1935.

    Len McCluskey, one of Jeremy Corbyn’s staunchest backers, whose union has spent millions on Labour’s campaign, said he could not see the party winning the election, but said any result would be good if Theresa May’s Conservative majority did not increase “dramatically”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...says-mccluskey

  49. #1169
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    On a local level I hope Salma Yaqoob unseats Naz Shah

  50. #1170
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    The heavyweights are now coming out to back Corbyn.

    Danny DeVito backs Jeremy Corbyn saying 'UK - you've got the guy'

    The star of Twins, Batman Returns and It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia has given his support to the Labour leader. Turns out he's really into British politics
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...orbyn-10453082

  51. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by mani1 View Post
    On a local level I hope Salma Yaqoob unseats Naz Shah
    What the hell, what is she doing in Bradford Anyhow good luck, it will be great if she wins for you guys; top top woman


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  52. #1172
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    Salma Yaqoob comes across as an intelligent lady and she's a great communicator. Her political positions, though you may not agree with them, have always remained consistent too. Not sure I would say the same of Shah.

    Yaqoob has also not wasted any time in sticking it to Galloway lol.

    http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.u...venge/?ref=mac

  53. #1173
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    Corbyn doing a lot better in the opinion polls now - if not for all the kippers going back to the tories this would have been quite a close election, still could be I suppose.

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  54. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    What the hell, what is she doing in Bradford Anyhow good luck, it will be great if she wins for you guys; top top woman
    Apparently she was born here.

  55. #1175
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    Perhaps we are seeing the decline of third parties, kingmakers, protest votes, coalitions and minority view influence.

    The SNP will continue to do what they do and will continue to have zero sway in Westminster; nobody knows who the Lib Dem leader is; UKIP are a complete and utter joke; and the Greens have good morals but no ambition.

    British politics will be a straight shoot-out between Labour and the Tories at this election and for a very long time yet. The old-fashioned way.

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