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  1. #1
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    Tyler Clementi, Dharun Ravi and The Invasion of Privacy - Who's heard?

    I haven't seen it posted yet and I completely forgot that I really wanted to discuss this on PakPassion because I want to see intelligent people's views on it, as most of the comments on the internet are made by trolls.

    For those who haven't heard, here's a 'report'. I put that in quotes because I'm especially reluctant to share these because they are so inaccurate. How do I know this?

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/30/...iref=allsearch

    Well, Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei went to my high school. They were in my grade. I was pretty good friends with them. So, when I formulate an opinion, people call me biased, but I really don't think I am, so I wanted to hear what everyone else thought about this, and the impressions they got right after they read the article.

    I'll post my thoughts and the misconceptions with the article after I see some thoughts.

  2. #2
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    What a sad sad case.

    Dharun Ravi will have to live with this for the rest of his life and one hopes the pain does not subside quick.

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    It was such an idiotic thing to do.

    Any individual would have the air sucked right out of them, if something like that happened. Putting a webcam in someone's room and then showing the video to everyone is not only childish, but downright disgusting. The fact the individual was a homosexual made things worse as he had never come out before about it. Now the whole world knew about him being gay.

    Dharun Ravi should be ashamed of himself.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

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    Sometimes, being a little too witty (whether delibrate or not) can cause serious damages.

    Sad to see the bright students (as per the report) ruining their careers by their own hands.
    Last edited by Energy; 4th October 2010 at 00:07.

  5. #5
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    See this is exactly what I mean.

    Kingusama, there are 3 things that are extremely wrong with your post. Everyone knew he was gay, first of all. Secondly, that was Dharun's own webcam. It wasn't planted or anything. Also, there wasn't even a sexual webcast. It was just on iChat, where a couple of people saw it. It wasn't a worldwide webcast like .. cricket streams are. There was no nudity.

    And I know I've said it already, but it really bothers me that no one knew that he WAS NOT a closet gay. Everyone knew.

    Do you see the problem here? The issue most people have is that he was gay. Well, this wouldn't even have been a case if he was a heterosexual. You can't possibly tell me that something like this hasn't happened before. It's just a stupid prank gone horribly wrong.

    I'm not saying that Dharun Ravi doesn't deserve a punishment, but do you guys really believe that he deserved his whole life ruined forever? Do you really believe that one single incident caused this kid's death? I'll support that point further, if need be, later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iZeeshan View Post
    See this is exactly what I mean.

    Kingusama, there are 3 things that are extremely wrong with your post. Everyone knew he was gay, first of all. Secondly, that was Dharun's own webcam. It wasn't planted or anything. Also, there wasn't even a sexual webcast. It was just on iChat, where a couple of people saw it. It wasn't a worldwide webcast like .. cricket streams are. There was no nudity.

    And I know I've said it already, but it really bothers me that no one knew that he WAS NOT a closet gay. Everyone knew.

    Do you see the problem here? The issue most people have is that he was gay. Well, this wouldn't even have been a case if he was a heterosexual. You can't possibly tell me that something like this hasn't happened before. It's just a stupid prank gone horribly wrong.

    I'm not saying that Dharun Ravi doesn't deserve a punishment, but do you guys really believe that he deserved his whole life ruined forever? Do you really believe that one single incident caused this kid's death? I'll support that point further, if need be, later.
    We might never know a concrete answer to this. The only thing I can think is that his friends who filmed it should have atleast known the sensitivity of Clementi.

    As I said before, trying to be a little too funny can go horribly wrong.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hassam Nasarullah View Post
    We might never know a concrete answer to this. The only thing I can think is that his friends who filmed it should have atleast known the sensitivity of Clementi.

    As I said before, trying to be a little too funny can go horribly wrong.
    Known the sensitivity? What are you suggesting exactly? That we know everyone's medical/emotional history before we decide to prank them? That would be a bit ridiculous, no?

    No one expects someone to go ahead and kill himself after a few people have seen him kissing another dude on an iChat webcast to seven people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iZeeshan View Post
    Known the sensitivity? What are you suggesting exactly? That we know everyone's medical/emotional history before we decide to prank them? That would be a bit ridiculous, no?

    No one expects someone to go ahead and kill himself after a few people have seen him kissing another dude on an iChat webcast to seven people.
    Was there a reason at all for this kind of a prank in the first place?

    I am not saying that Clementi is right to commit suicide. But I am also not saying that the prank was just a 'casual' one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iZeeshan View Post
    See this is exactly what I mean.

    Kingusama, there are 3 things that are extremely wrong with your post. Everyone knew he was gay, first of all. Secondly, that was Dharun's own webcam. It wasn't planted or anything. Also, there wasn't even a sexual webcast. It was just on iChat, where a couple of people saw it. It wasn't a worldwide webcast like .. cricket streams are. There was no nudity.

    And I know I've said it already, but it really bothers me that no one knew that he WAS NOT a closet gay. Everyone knew.

    Do you see the problem here? The issue most people have is that he was gay. Well, this wouldn't even have been a case if he was a heterosexual. You can't possibly tell me that something like this hasn't happened before. It's just a stupid prank gone horribly wrong.

    I'm not saying that Dharun Ravi doesn't deserve a punishment, but do you guys really believe that he deserved his whole life ruined forever? Do you really believe that one single incident caused this kid's death? I'll support that point further, if need be, later.
    Apologies - didn't know he was openly gay. Still haven't found any article stating for or against your statement, though.

    Still, does not mean Dharun Ravi is free from doing what he did.

    You are completely wrong about it not getting spread across the a larger base of people. The idiot posted the video on Twitter. A whole bunch of individuals saw it, not just a few.

    Here is a direct quote from CNN's article proving my point.

    The video was distributed over the social networking site Twitter. A life destroyed after a "prank" that seemed to be seething with homophobia.
    Also, it was a sexual webcast. Another quote from CNN's article.

    and fired up the livestream recording of Clementi making out with another young man


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iZeeshan View Post
    Known the sensitivity? What are you suggesting exactly? That we know everyone's medical/emotional history before we decide to prank them? That would be a bit ridiculous, no?

    No one expects someone to go ahead and kill himself after a few people have seen him kissing another dude on an iChat webcast to seven people.
    Really?

    Do you know how embarrassing it is to have your sexual encounters taped and shown to other people? That is downright embarrassing as most people don't do that stuff in public for a reason.

    I wouldn't call this a prank. Definitely was more then that. The fact they broke many laws while doing it says enough about it.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  11. #11
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    Really? Because I would think that if it was a guy making out with another girl, I'm sure it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

    And you're wrong again buddy. CNN is misreporting everything. The video was NOT posted on twitter. It was on an iChat invite. My friends that go to RU told me how many people really would've seen it. Also, according to Tyler HIMSELF, all that was seen was a little kissing. Not intense making out. No nudity.

    You have to realize that half the point of this thread is so you understand that barely any of what CNN has said is true. You can't just use "direct" quotes from them to prove your point, considering they have omitted so much of the truth.

    Also, did you know that this kid tried committing suicide 2 years earlier, also?

    I cannot iterate enough that if this was not a homosexual encounter this wouldn't have gone anywhere. Just a week before this happened, a couple of my friends did nearly the same exact thing. THey were all hallmates. One of the guys was really awkward but he was finally getting with another girl that's also really awkward. So his roommate decided to turn on the webcam to see what was going on. The guy figured it out and came out laughing about it afterwards. The girl didn't even care.

    I don't know how many opinions you have read online, but so many people have came out with encounters when they did the same things in college. It's really a harmless, funny prank, until someone just goes out and kills themselves.
    Last edited by iZeeshan; 4th October 2010 at 01:18.

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    The media's overplaying the "committed suicide because he was outed" angle. I don't believe this is true. If he was having sex with a dude in his dorm room - reportedly asked for the room until midnight - then it's a good bet that he's already out with his sexuality and not hiding anything.

    However, regardless of whether you're straight, gay, black, white, whatever, having someone watch what you're doing in the privacy of your own room and then broadcast it on the internet with lines like:
    Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into molly's room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay
    and:
    Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 and 12. Yes it's happening again
    that's pretty ****ing insensitive first and foremost. Above and beyond any law you might be breaking, that's just a mean and spiteful thing to do to somebody. Whatever privacy laws they might have been breaking - and I'm sure they will be one or two - all that comes later in my book.

    I don't have much sympathy for the two students.


    Jo aql ka ghulam ho, woh dil na kar qubool
    Disown the heart that's slave to the mind
    -Iqbal

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0gers View Post
    The media's overplaying the "committed suicide because he was outed" angle. I don't believe this is true. If he was having sex with a dude in his dorm room - reportedly asked for the room until midnight - then it's a good bet that he's already out with his sexuality and not hiding anything.

    However, regardless of whether you're straight, gay, black, white, whatever, having someone watch what you're doing in the privacy of your own room and then broadcast it on the internet with lines liked:that's pretty ****ing insensitive first and foremost. Above and beyond any law you might be breaking, that's just a mean and spiteful thing to do to somebody. Whatever privacy laws they might have been breaking - and I'm sure they will be one or two - all that comes later in my book.

    I don't have much sympathy for the two students.
    So a breach of privacy like this means these two kids' lives get ruined forever. They thought they were being funny. Played a stupid prank and were dumb about it. Does that mean they can't get jobs for the rest of their life?

    I know both these kids personally and they're two of the nicest people I've ever met. Dharun? He's very, very open minded. I can't believe they wanted to charge him for a hate crime. It had nothing to do with the fact that he was gay.

    And just out of curiosity, have you seen the posts Tyler made on a gay community forum the day before he killed himself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iZeeshan View Post
    So a breach of privacy like this means these two kids' lives get ruined forever. They thought they were being funny. Played a stupid prank and were dumb about it. Does that mean they can't get jobs for the rest of their life?

    I know both these kids personally and they're two of the nicest people I've ever met. Dharun? He's very, very open minded. I can't believe they wanted to charge him for a hate crime. It had nothing to do with the fact that he was gay.
    I'm not the one to decide what lies in store for them but yes, what they did was seriously wrong and they need to face the consequences. I think you're too personally vested in this because you know the kids, which in my opinion is making you pass this off as a harmless prank. I don't see it that way.
    And just out of curiosity, have you seen the posts Tyler made on a gay community forum the day before he killed himself?
    As long as we're strictly talking about an act of invasion of privacy, I don't see how this is relevant. Tyler could have been a serial rapist as far as I'm concerned, it still wouldn't be okay to secretly film his sex life.


    Jo aql ka ghulam ho, woh dil na kar qubool
    Disown the heart that's slave to the mind
    -Iqbal

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    Very sad incident! these guys should be punished accordingly! RIP

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0gers View Post
    I'm not the one to decide what lies in store for them but yes, what they did was seriously wrong and they need to face the consequences. I think you're too personally vested in this because you know the kids, which in my opinion is making you pass this off as a harmless prank. I don't see it that way. As long as we're strictly talking about an act of invasion of privacy, I don't see how this is relevant. Tyler could have been a serial rapist as far as I'm concerned, it still wouldn't be okay to secretly film his sex life.
    I may be personally vested in this but I have seen and heard about very similar pranks that really did end up being harmless.

    The posts are very relevant because they show how not-suicidal Tyler really was and how little he actually cared. He was a little concerned but he wasn't even sure if it was that big of a deal. I urge you to read them, you'll understand then.

    And who's saying it was okay? It's never okay to do such a thing. It's also not okay to blow it up and ruin two kids' lives forever, even before there's been a formal charge or a court case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iZeeshan View Post
    I may be personally vested in this but I have seen and heard about very similar pranks that really did end up being harmless.
    The point is not whether it was harmless or not. The point is that it's a despicable act to secretly film somebody in a compromising position and then brag about it on the internet to get some lulz. Without getting into the legality of it, from a moral standpoint this should bring up a million red flags.
    The posts are very relevant because they show how not-suicidal Tyler really was and how little he actually cared. He was a little concerned but he wasn't even sure if it was that big of a deal. I urge you to read them, you'll understand then.
    Again this is completely irrelevant to the original act of invasion of privacy.
    And who's saying it was okay? It's never okay to do such a thing. It's also not okay to blow it up and ruin two kids' lives forever, even before there's been a formal charge or a court case.
    Have to wait and see what the court decides. As adults (I'm guessing both students are above 18) you are responsible for your own actions. Yes the media is definitely overplaying the "suicide due to shame of being outed" side. On the other hand I don't get the sense from reading your posts that you see this 'prank' as anything too serious. This isn't something that you slap somebody on the wrist and tell them not to do it again.

    Main point is, even if Tyler hadn't killed himself - for whatever reason - this would still be a very horrible, horrible thing to do to somebody what these students did. And - this is just me speculating - if it turns out that the reason they did this is because they're homophobic, that's a whole different level of disgraceful.
    Last edited by d0gers; 4th October 2010 at 09:25.


    Jo aql ka ghulam ho, woh dil na kar qubool
    Disown the heart that's slave to the mind
    -Iqbal

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    Zeeshan, thanks for giving a different perspective on this. This definitely is a case of a prank gone horribly wrong. The prosecutors might try to make an example out of this. I am afraid, the two kids behind this will now have to face the music. Actions have consequences...that's how our society works.

    Are you implying that the web cast did not trigger Clementi's suicide? Can't really condone the actions of Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei though.

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    I'm sure it played some role, but the fact of the matter is that one single event cannot solely drive a person to suicide.

    Also, I'm sorry dodgers, but I don't see this as serious as you're making out it out to be. It's college. Stuff like this literally happens here all the time. Of course, not everyone gets away with it, but it's only being made such a big issue because of the suicide. Had the suicide not happen, I can almost ensure that 80% of the people would not give a crap. The loss of a life due to something so stupid stirs up very strong emotions.

    As for the punishment, it should've maybe been more along the lines of like expulsion from RU, nowhere near as much media attention, and probably not more than 6 months in prison. But because of the media overload, it doesn't really matter anymore. Dharun's a rich kid and he'll just go to India after he's finished with whatever the courts decide. Poor Molly Wei though.

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    I don't know where you go to school man or what's going on in your life but I'm pretty sure everybody I know would classify this under "seriously effed up behavior".

    If kids at your school think it's not a big deal, or even fun and cool to act this way, well then all the more reason for this case to get the attention it's getting.


    Jo aql ka ghulam ho, woh dil na kar qubool
    Disown the heart that's slave to the mind
    -Iqbal


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    d0gers laying the smackdown here.

    Z, your personal interest is clouding your vision here.


    He is fundamentally aware of his aura within the team. His exhilaration infects them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poison View Post
    d0gers laying the smackdown here.

    Z, your personal interest is clouding your vision here.
    d0dgers is from the states. I don't understand how he doesn't understand how common this behavior is. It's not effed up behavior until somebody goes ahead and kills themselves.

    And I don't know why people keep thinking that I'm supporting this kind of action. I just don't support how it's been handled.

    He definitely deserves the punishment. But it's useless arguing with people who only look at the faults of your argument and then make stuff up in their head.

    I'm more or less trying to advocate the ideas put forward in this article.

    http://abovethelaw.com/2010/09/invas...te/#more-38007

  23. #23
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    ^ I guess if anyone has seen the American Pie movie...then one can relate better.

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    Zeeshan just because something is common doesn't mean that it's okay. Thousands of women get raped every day. By your logic it should only be a big deal if the victim commits suicide? Otherwise we should laugh and joke about it.

    (Not trying to equate rape and the students' actions. But I see it as way more serious than underage drinking, or indecent exposure, which are two examples mentioned in that article you linked.)


    Jo aql ka ghulam ho, woh dil na kar qubool
    Disown the heart that's slave to the mind
    -Iqbal

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0gers View Post
    Zeeshan just because something is common doesn't mean that it's okay. Thousands of women get raped every day. By your logic it should only be a big deal if the victim commits suicide? Otherwise we should laugh and joke about it.

    (Not trying to equate rape and the students' actions. But I see it as way more serious than underage drinking, or indecent exposure, which are two examples mentioned in that article you linked.)
    I'm pretty sure I said somewhere in my posts that, "it still doesn't mean it's okay". I'm NOT arguing that it's okay. It's actually pretty rude and uncalled for.

    But there's no way I'm going to sit here and defend a 5 year punishment and all that media attention, and what not.

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    It could be 5 years if they're found guilty of the charges against them. There's nothing really for anybody to support or oppose here. It's for the jury to decide.


    Jo aql ka ghulam ho, woh dil na kar qubool
    Disown the heart that's slave to the mind
    -Iqbal

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0gers View Post
    It could be 5 years if they're found guilty of the charges against them. There's nothing really for anybody to support or oppose here. It's for the jury to decide.
    Do you think he deserves 5 years?

    I know it doesn't matter, but I feel like this wouldn't even be news if he wasn't gay or hadn't committed suicide.

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    There is a major flaw in your logic iZeeshan.

    If someone robs a store but doesn't get caught does this justify their act? Does this mean they shouldn't be punished? Fair game I understand it's just a prank, something I would probably do to a friend to be honest, but its a breach of privacy by putting it online, your 'friend' should've taken into account the sensitivities of his room-mate, and his contribution to his eventual death shouldn't go unpunished. 5 years is way too much, maybe a 2 year probationary sentence.


    He is fundamentally aware of his aura within the team. His exhilaration infects them.

  29. #29
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    Bunch of spoiled rich kids ... Rutgers is full of them.

    I had a roommate just like this Ravi guy .. Indian kid who thought he was too kool

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poison View Post
    There is a major flaw in your logic iZeeshan.

    If someone robs a store but doesn't get caught does this justify their act? Does this mean they shouldn't be punished? Fair game I understand it's just a prank, something I would probably do to a friend to be honest, but its a breach of privacy by putting it online, your 'friend' should've taken into account the sensitivities of his room-mate, and his contribution to his eventual death shouldn't go unpunished. 5 years is way too much, maybe a 2 year probationary sentence.
    I give up. I refuse to repeat myself any further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iZeeshan View Post
    Do you think he deserves 5 years?

    I know it doesn't matter, but I feel like this wouldn't even be news if he wasn't gay or hadn't committed suicide.
    By the same token I doubt Dharun Ravi would have pulled this stunt and bragged about it on the internet had Tyler not been gay.

    I know the above is just speculation on my part, so thankfully my opinion on this doesn't matter. Plus he's not even being tried for a hate crime. The charges relate to distributing video/images of someone's sex life without their consent. He'll get whatever the jury thinks he deserves, which could be 5 years or could be nothing at all.


    Jo aql ka ghulam ho, woh dil na kar qubool
    Disown the heart that's slave to the mind
    -Iqbal

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    When you are an adult and you start playing such pranks - you have to be prepared to face the music. Simple as that. What they did was inexcusable and should have been punished even if there was no suicide resulting from it.

    Expulsion is obvious. It'll be interesting what the jury decides.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

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    I don't know if you guys have seen the forum he posted in for a few days prior to his death. He said that the webcam was placed in such a position that no one could have seen much of him and his friend, apart from their heads or faces.

    And then, after Dharun's second twitter post in which he foolishly announced his decision to broadcast from the webcam again, he posted that he turned the webcam in a different direction and had 'relations' with his friend again. He was using smileys and seemed proud of himself. This is clearly not something a distraught and depressed person would do.

    Dharun acted in an utterly juvenile manner, no doubt, but there had to have been other psychological factors behind the suicide.


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