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Thread: Spot-Fixing Trial DAY 6 - News & Discussion Thread

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  1. #1
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    Spot-Fixing Trial DAY 6 - News & Discussion Thread

    This is it. The last day of the trial. The verdict will most likely be given today.

    Jang and "its sources" are predicting a life ban on , 5 year ban of , and a 3 year ban on

    I dont know about you but I am actually worried (not about )
    I wish Aamer and Asif could play in the WC

    Hopefully they give out the verdict quickly, lets just get this done and over with already.. too much waiting.


    God will take you thru hell, just to take you to heaven..

  2. #2
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    A life ban would probably be appropriate on Butt. No way they can pull a 5-fer on Asif, where is the evidence? Even if they do it'll probably be repealed faster than lightning. 2-3 years is acceptable for Amir, he needs more than a slap in the hand.

    It'll be a life lesson for Amir at least - actions have consequences.

  3. #3
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    how many hrs left till verdict ?

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    I hope Amir only gets six months and a heavy fine. Six months starting in August 2010, so he would be able to play the WC. Asif on sub continent pitches and in LOI matches is not that effective. But we need a fast bowler.

    Shoaib, Gul and Amir with Wahab on stand-by would be a very good fast bowling unit.

  5. #5
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    theres no guarantee the verdict comes out today:

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/c...ry/496254.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fawad2010 View Post
    I hope Amir only gets six months and a heavy fine. Six months starting in August 2010, so he would be able to play the WC. Asif on sub continent pitches and in LOI matches is not that effective. But we need a fast bowler.

    Shoaib, Gul and Amir with Wahab on stand-by would be a very good fast bowling unit.
    not a chance


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahid Afridi's Fan View Post
    not a chance
    I know but one can hope...

  8. #8
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    3 years for Aamer, 5 years for Asif means that their careers would most probably be over.

    these bans are not just for international cricket, they will not be allowed to play at the domestic level either..

  9. #9
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    i was thinking the same and just saw your comments but i have just read Jang online news that
    Amir is out for 3 yrs
    Asif 5 years
    and Butt is out for the but of his life

  10. #10
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    how the hell jang can predict the verdict by their own , they have given in the online news with Big heading that Asif , Amir, Butt are out for 5 , 3 , life respectively

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zainkhan View Post
    how the hell jang can predict the verdict by their own , they have given in the online news with Big heading that Asif , Amir, Butt are out for 5 , 3 , life respectively
    I read Jang newspaper daily. One thing i can tell you is that their sources are very reliable. Jang always seem to know whats going on in pakistan cricket and within PCB. They always tell a day ago who will be playing the next match, and who is not playing.

    I also read on Jang that kamran akmal is highly unlikey to be part of the 15 man squad for the world cup. ICC still feel that he was part of the spot fixing and will not be cleared to play the world cup.

  12. #12
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    Verdict is not 100% today but it is likely.
    Likely to be at 9:00 AM GMT time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PakistanPaindabad View Post
    3 years for Aamer, 5 years for Asif means that their careers would most probably be over.

    these bans are not just for international cricket, they will not be allowed to play at the domestic level either..
    Not really, Aameer after three years is still only 22

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    Quote Originally Posted by bablu_2010 View Post
    I read Jang newspaper daily. One thing i can tell you is that their sources are very reliable. Jang always seem to know whats going on in pakistan cricket and within PCB. They always tell a day ago who will be playing the next match, and who is not playing.

    I also read on Jang that kamran akmal is highly unlikey to be part of the 15 man squad for the world cup. ICC still feel that he was part of the spot fixing and will not be cleared to play the world cup.
    Yeah ok its 6: 40 am in Doha right now, how can jang possibly know the ruling when its not even made yet? unless jang's source are the judges themselves these are mere predictions.
    Last edited by Shayan_Sohail; 11th January 2011 at 02:50.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ismailtoca View Post
    Not really, Aameer after three years is still only 22
    Asif is 28 and after 5 years he will be 33. Pretty much done.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayan_Sohail View Post
    Yeah ok its 6: 40 am in Doha right now, how can jang possibly know the ruling when its not even made yet? unless jang's source are the judges themselves these are mere predictions.
    lol I have no idea, I am just saying that Jang wouldn't publish such news if it wasn't reliable. We will find out soon though lol...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricfan967 View Post
    Verdict is not 100% today but it is likely.
    Likely to be at 9:00 AM GMT time.
    So it'll be 4:00 AM here on the East coast. Getting ready for some depressing news when I wake up, if I can fall asleep that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bablu_2010 View Post
    lol I have no idea, I am just saying that Jang wouldn't publish such news if it wasn't reliable. We will find out soon though lol...
    Lol yeah we will see I guess


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  19. #19
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    The big day. My advice to people would be to expect the worst [for the three players] - hopefully we won't see any over-dramatic threads made in shock on PP tomorrow.

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    for all i care all 3 can get life bans, i dont understand the support amir is getting so what if he was young and talented while we sat there praying and hoping he was making a few quick bucks by selling out the team and country.


    "Though Afridi couldn't win the world cup, for 30 days he turned his country into a nation"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledger View Post
    The big day. My advice to people would be to expect the worst [for the three players] - hopefully we won't see any over-dramatic threads made in shock on PP tomorrow.
    Exactly.

    I am going into this feeling all will get life bans.

    Thus, I won't be disappointed in the end...unless they all get life bans that is.


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli786 View Post
    for all i care all 3 can get life bans, i dont understand the support amir is getting so what if he was young and talented while we sat there praying and hoping he was making a few quick bucks by selling out the team and country.
    SPOT fixing man SPOT fixing!
    its NO big crime!
    he didn't sell out the team and country!
    i would've done the same

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by venomousx View Post
    SPOT fixing man SPOT fixing!
    its NO big crime!
    he didn't sell out the team and country!
    i would've done the same
    Spot fixing? thats all that has been revealed. the sri lanka ODI when afridi hit the 100 we lost that because 'spot fixers' were at they dirty games, you might think it was just spot fixing but you think they cant do it for full matchs? iy probably isnt hard when your opening batsmen and opening bowlers also.

    He might have just been involved in spot-fixing but when you get away with it a few times you escalate and play for more money


    "Though Afridi couldn't win the world cup, for 30 days he turned his country into a nation"

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inswinger View Post
    So it'll be 4:00 AM here on the East coast. Getting ready for some depressing news when I wake up, if I can fall asleep that is.
    same man. It will be very sad if they get big time bans.
    I have a test tomorrow too.. dont know if I can focus


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  25. #25
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    For the trio to get banned, all the icc lawyers have to do is to prove the video recordings was made before the no balls were bowled and trhen there is no way in this world that they can get away.

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    All will get life bans. We dont need cheaters like these in our team.

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    i ll be very sad if the three cuplrits dont get life ban..

  28. #28
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    no emotions. They should get banned no matter how good they are



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    njamal574 and msmkt I agree 110%


    "Though Afridi couldn't win the world cup, for 30 days he turned his country into a nation"

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    prepare for life ban on Butt, 3 years on Asif and a 1 for Amir (if he gets to play his age card).

    Be thankful if anything better is received.

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    hopefully people dont get their hopes high for these three to get clear or at least Amir

    i know ill wake up at 6am to go to college and see the news that will ruin my day

    i expect alot of PP members to get banned tomorrow for some of their posts

    if a miracle does happen tomorrow and Amir gets cleared im sure all the people saying they want life bans for all will come out and say they are happy he was cleared...which i dont expect he will

    btw does anyone know if there is a camera in their so after the verdict we will see what happened

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    Everyone should think about it this way, even if the worst case scenario comes through, and all three get life bans, can you imagine how much pain/hurt we would save from having to deal with this kind of issue (hopefully) in the future. Think about the precedent that will get set for future generations.


    Show a little bit of moderation, in both denouncement and praise.

  33. #33
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    12:00 and no news - I'm off to bed for the night folks, will wake up in the morning to a sea of blood due to the life bans, night!

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bablu_2010 View Post
    I read Jang newspaper daily. One thing i can tell you is that their sources are very reliable. Jang always seem to know whats going on in pakistan cricket and within PCB. They always tell a day ago who will be playing the next match, and who is not playing.

    I also read on Jang that kamran akmal is highly unlikey to be part of the 15 man squad for the world cup. ICC still feel that he was part of the spot fixing and will not be cleared to play the world cup.
    Jang is usually spot in when it comes to matters relating to Pakistan cricket involving Pakistani officials who like to blab alot (hence the unnamed sources).

    In this case the ICC tribunal has been extremely tight lipped. There have been no leaks regarding the trial. The verdict is to be given by Beloff and his team who I am sure are not talking to anyone in Jang.

    The verdicts given by Jang are pure speculation in this case in my opinion


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    enough of these life bans blah blah

    No way a player can be life banned for SPOT FIXING.
    I dont believe Jang and their silly sources.


    God will take you thru hell, just to take you to heaven..

  36. #36
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    man u guys are so gullible. It's like some movie where the man commits the crime, jailed for 3 years and the next scene is that relatives are standing outside and greeting him so he can start where he stopped. 3 years is a long time, there would be other bowlers by that time in the line up and this game is all about momentum. Some of you won't even remember him after that time, he has to play competitive cricket to get back in th groove, his confidence would have been smashed by that time, a cheaters tag, with domestic games that if PCB lets him. Butt, Asif and Aamir are done..move along and hope there aren't anymore like them still in the team. Although, its blindin obvious, they are

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECB View Post
    man u guys are so gullible. It's like some movie where the man commits the crime, jailed for 3 years and the next scene is that relatives are standing outside and greeting him so he can start where he stopped. 3 years is a long time, there would be other bowlers by that time in the line up and this game is all about momentum. Some of you won't even remember him after that time, he has to play competitive cricket to get back in th groove, his confidence would have been smashed by that time, a cheaters tag, with domestic games that if PCB lets him. Butt, Asif and Aamir are done..move along and hope there aren't anymore like them still in the team. Although, its blindin obvious, they are
    Talent like Aamir? I doubt we find someone like him in the next decade. In the end when its all said and done (when he retires) people will not remember him for spot fixing, they will remember him for the talent he had.. Much like Wasim, a known fixer--even though never convicted.


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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahid Afridi's Fan View Post
    enough of these life bans blah blah

    No way a player can be life banned for SPOT FIXING.
    I dont believe Jang and their silly sources.
    They certainly can. Go and read the ICC codes under sanctions.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahid Afridi's Fan View Post
    Talent like Aamir? I doubt we find someone like him in the next decade. In the end when its all said and done (when he retires) people will not remember him for spot fixing, they will remember him for the talent he had.. Much like Wasim, a known fixer--even though never convicted.
    vow, he's hardly been around, every new flower blossoms..what coulda shoulda is still hanging on the verdict tomorrow. You doubt Pak fast bowling factory? sorry but hard to focus on the "I am sorry, I am young, I made a mistake..well then so is butt, why ppl are OK with him to go? just coz he's not in form
    Not only you guys are gullible but also selfish, if it wasn't for his wicket taking ability, no one would care for him that much. You want to see some justice, subtract the time he was wearing cannabis t-shirt and just get in the team and pat on his back saying "sure, it happens..but dont do it again, just go and get us wickets" what is cheating, looks warne did it, and he was a legend..here is the carpet and here is broom

  40. #40
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    I have a feeling Aamir will be banned for life aswell.

  41. #41
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    Just saw on NDTV news that the possible outcome may be:

    1) - may be banned for 7 years
    2) - may be banned for 5 years
    3) - may be banned for 2 years.


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  42. #42
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    ^
    They will obviously release it to all of the press at one time.

    Thus, don't believe Jang or NDTV at the moment. These are just educated guesses at the moment.


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  43. #43
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    Spot-Fixing Trial DAY 6
    When does the free trial expire so we can see the full version?

  44. #44
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    PP, legend!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bablu_2010 View Post
    I read Jang newspaper daily. One thing i can tell you is that their sources are very reliable. Jang always seem to know whats going on in pakistan cricket and within PCB. They always tell a day ago who will be playing the next match, and who is not playing.

    I also read on Jang that kamran akmal is highly unlikey to be part of the 15 man squad for the world cup. ICC still feel that he was part of the spot fixing and will not be cleared to play the world cup.
    PLEASE DO NOT EVER SAY THIS AGAIN

    Check this epic revelation by Jang in the thread below where they said "Rana Naved is 25 years old". Date and Page # of newspaper is also mentioned.

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...d.php?t=107983


    Rana the flying doormat!!! - Shane Warne

  46. #46
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    NDTV guess feeling better than Jung


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  47. #47
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    Rashid Latiff thinks they'll all walk scott free.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    ^
    They will obviously release it to all of the press at one time.

    Thus, don't believe Jang or NDTV at the moment. These are just educated guesses at the moment.
    Indeed.

    Though I wouldn't call them "educated" guesses.

    It is illiterate BS of the highest order.

    These are three top international judges - who have not yet commenced their actual deliberations to reach a verdict, and even once they do, such deliberations would be between the three of them, even the judges' clerks wouldn't know what's being discussed - so would these three very experienced and senior judges leak their inner-most thoughts on Day 3 and Day 4 to idiotic and ill-informed Pakistani and Indian journalists?

    Perhaps, but I would "guess" that is highly unlikely.

    In any case - if (ie when) the three are found guilty, reasoned judgements would be required by the three defendants. That would take time and probably would not come out today. Once it comes out, it will form the basis of the submissions on sentences. Those submissions would be reviewed by the Judges in their deliberations to decide appropriate sentences.

    Hence, there is very little possibility of the actual sanctions in the event of a guilty verdict being announced today - IMHO.

    I could be wrong of course, but I would submit that my guess here is more 'educated' than those by the idiots on Pakistani and Indian media.
    Last edited by ShehryarK; 11th January 2011 at 05:20.




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    The big question is how will PCB handle this.

    Lets say they get banned for 2 years, after serving their ban should they be welcomed back into the team like nothing has happened?

    Will the public ever trust them again?

    Let the ICC ban them for a few years, the national board should have their own trial and punishment.

    If guilty, they have sold out their country, they should not be allowed to wear their national colours again. Apart from Aamer. Give him another chance. Too young.

  50. #50
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    I don't think Amir can escape any ban after that tshirt that he wore.

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    We should organise a betting syndicate to bet on this outcome.

    Who's in?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayan_Sohail View Post
    Yeah ok its 6: 40 am in Doha right now, how can jang possibly know the ruling when its not even made yet? unless jang's source are the judges themselves these are mere predictions.
    Many observers and people believe that the decision was made even before this trial started..... This whole trial is basically just a showcase, I'm pretty sure the icc made up their minds before the trial started and are likely to stick to their guns

  53. #53
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    ban em all for life ,we all know this has been going on for ages and is the only way to clean up our team .
    plus we'll have 3 or 4 fast bowlers coming up anyway not like we've a shortage in that department .

    dirty little cheating .........

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomBoomAfridi View Post
    This whole trial is basically just a showcase, I'm pretty sure the icc made up their minds before the trial started and are likely to stick to their guns
    The ICC making up its mind is completely irrelevant since the ICC is not making the decision. It is only prosecuting and presenting the (mostly NOTW) evidence

    I don't think anyone seriously imagines that three very senior, experienced and accomplished international Judges would put their reputations, their legacy and in fact, their life's work, on the line by being involved in corruption for the sake of one petty trial involving three minor miscreants!

    Even the suggestion is ludicrous - that's not how these things work.




    ... hor gunnay choopoo ...

  55. #55
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    If only the NOTW didn't exist..

    But then we'd still have these cheats in the team, fixing every game. Never mind.

  56. #56
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    So how are these 'sources' coming up with the numbers for these life-bans? Random number generator I presume.


    unkahi hi reh gayi woh baat, sab baaton ke baad

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShehryarK View Post
    The ICC making up its mind is completely irrelevant since the ICC is not making the decision. It is only prosecuting and presenting the (mostly NOTW) evidence

    I don't think anyone seriously imagines that three very senior, experienced and accomplished international Judges would put their reputations, their legacy and in fact, their life's work, on the line by being involved in corruption for the sake of one petty trial involving three minor miscreants!

    Even the suggestion is ludicrous - that's not how these things work.
    I am concerned with their head...he shouldn't have listened to players' appeals if he wanted to hear the main proceedings...


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  58. #58
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    Most of the Posters here posting their Thoughts without knowing the latest Updates of the hearings..


    !!! I PakPassin !!!

  59. #59
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    They might release the verdict and sentences today, then follow up with written judgements. Depends how that system works really.

    Would be nice for all concerned to get it over and done with, this has gone on far too long.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khabri420 View Post
    So how are these 'sources' coming up with the numbers for these life-bans? Random number generator I presume.
    Everyone's throwing out numbers so they can be like ;

    OMG I TOLD YOU SO!

    Here's mine; life, life, 3.

  61. #61
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    When are we going to find out???? England time please???


    You aren't a failure if you fail, you are a failure if you don't get up to try again-Imran Khan

  62. #62
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    Minimum would be a life ban on all these three players IF they are guilty. Nothing less than that as this would set a precedence for all the future incidents.

    All the news channels and experts are indicating that the evidence is against all the three players. I do not understand on what basis people here would support these three guys if they are charged with this crime.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anwaar View Post
    I am concerned with their head...he shouldn't have listened to players' appeals if he wanted to hear the main proceedings...
    Agreed, that would have been best practice.

    However, the two cases are markedly different and have very different arguments. Hence, any half-decent judge would know and understand that decision in one has no relevance to the decision in the other. And this guy is a lot better than a 'half-decent' judge!




    ... hor gunnay choopoo ...

  64. #64
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    Geo is reporting that the media has been invited to the hearing for the first time, indicating that at least a verdict might be read out today. 1PM Pakistan time.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by saqlain View Post
    Minimum would be a life ban on all these three players IF they are guilty. Nothing less than that as this would set a precedence for all the future incidents.

    All the news channels and experts are indicating that the evidence is against all the three players. I do not understand on what basis people here would support these three guys if they are charged with this crime.


    Ditto!

  66. #66
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    1PM Pakistan time? Thats in 30 minutes!

  67. #67
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    Good, i will be in cafe on my lunch break that time..


    i OnLy StOp FoR rElOaD!

  68. #68
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    Now Geo is reporting that the verdict is expected in 8 hours. They also have a clip of their correspondent speaking to Amir where Amir says he hasn't been able to slee

    - "I'm hoping for the best"
    - (Geo correspondent pointed to his eyes and said it looked like he hadn't slept much) "Jab tension hoti hai toh neendain urr jati hain. Aap keh saktay hain kay umeed kay liyay aankhain khuli hui hain, jab umeed puri ho jaye gee toh inshallah yay band ho jayen gi."
    - "Jab qaum ki duaain hoan toh darnay ki baat nahi hai"
    -

  69. #69
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    Ok again last time before the verdict.
    I hope Butt is life banned.
    And i changed my view on the other two.
    Asif can get free of charge and Amir should have a litle ban because otherwise every yougster will be tempted...

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanakazmi View Post
    Now Geo is reporting that the verdict is expected in 8 hours. They also have a clip of their correspondent speaking to Amir where Amir says he hasn't been able to slee

    - "I'm hoping for the best"
    - (Geo correspondent pointed to his eyes and said it looked like he hadn't slept much) "Jab tension hoti hai toh neendain urr jati hain. Aap keh saktay hain kay umeed kay liyay aankhain khuli hui hain, jab umeed puri ho jaye gee toh inshallah yay band ho jayen gi."
    - "Jab qaum ki duaain hoan toh darnay ki baat nahi hai"
    -
    No plss not in 8 hours...
    I am waiting and can't do anything else till i don't have this verdict.

  71. #71
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    My prediction: Butt 7 years, Aamer 2 years, Asif the Don: innocent


    Show a little bit of moderation, in both denouncement and praise.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by saqlain View Post
    Minimum would be a life ban on all these three players IF they are guilty. Nothing less than that as this would set a precedence for all the future incidents.

    All the news channels and experts are indicating that the evidence is against all the three players. I do not understand on what basis people here would support these three guys if they are charged with this crime.
    You wouldn't understand because you're an Indian, and probably dancing with joy when we're down, all while constantly trying to pass off as a Pakistani in this forum.

  73. #73
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    cricinfo..................Spot-fixing controversy

    Amir's lawyer requests deferred verdict
    Osman Samiuddin in Doha
    January 11, 2011
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    Mohammad Amir's lawyer has asked for a deferred judgement © Associated Press
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    News : Differences between Butt and Asif grow
    News : Spot-fixing hearing endgame begins
    News : ICC makes its case against suspended players
    In Focus: Match-fixing
    Players/Officials: Mohammad Amir
    Teams: Pakistan
    Mohammad Amir's legal counsel has requested the ICC's three-man tribunal examining the charges of spot-fixing to take more time to study the case before announcing its verdict. The closing statements of the six-day hearing were presented on Tuesday morning and while the verdict was expected later in the day, Amir's laywer Shahid Karim was hoping for a deferment.

    "We have requested the judges to look at the case carefully and properly and with due consideration before they announce the verdict," Karim told Geo TV. "This is up to them, and if they have looked at it with thought and consideration, then after we finish they'll tell us if the verdict is announced today or at a later date.

    "I am satisfied that the hearing has been very good and impartial, and I can say from our point of view at least we are hopeful. The onus is now on the judges."

    Amir, who was alleged to have bowled no-balls to order in the Lord's Test, was philosophical. "When the nation's prayers are with you, you don't feel so scared and there is hope. It's been difficult to sleep over the last few nights but my eyes are open now and when good news comes I will hopefully be able to close them properly.

    "We are satisfied with how things have gone, and my family's prayers are also with me. I'm feeling good and am hoping for some good news."

    Osman Samiuddin is Pakistan editor of Cricinfo

    Feeds: Osman Samiuddin
    © ESPN EMEA Ltd....

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by osee_bhai View Post
    My prediction: Butt 7 years, Aamer 2 years, Asif the Don: innocent
    Butt is going for life for sure... He must be..
    Amir should have played as smart as The DON


    i OnLy StOp FoR rElOaD!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by osee_bhai View Post
    My prediction: Butt 7 years, Aamer 2 years, Asif the Don: innocent
    That will be a very fair verdict i think.
    I think both parties, agaisnt the players and for the players will equally by happy.

  76. #76
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    Looks like Osman is watching Geo too, heh:
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan...ry/496288.html


    Amir's lawyer requests deferred verdict
    Osman Samiuddin in Doha
    January 11, 2011
    Be the first to comment | Post yours as Sana Kazmi | Text size: A | A

    Mohammad Amir's legal counsel has requested the ICC's three-man tribunal examining the charges of spot-fixing to take more time to study the case before announcing its verdict. The closing statements of the six-day hearing were presented on Tuesday morning and while the verdict was expected later in the day, Amir's laywer Shahid Karim was hoping for a deferment.

    "We have requested the judges to look at the case carefully and properly and with due consideration before they announce the verdict," Karim told Geo TV. "This is up to them, and if they have looked at it with thought and consideration, then after we finish they'll tell us if the verdict is announced today or at a later date.

    "I am satisfied that the hearing has been very good and impartial, and I can say from our point of view at least we are hopeful. The onus is now on the judges."

    Amir, who was alleged to have bowled no-balls to order in the Lord's Test, was philosophical. "When the nation's prayers are with you, you don't feel so scared and there is hope. It's been difficult to sleep over the last few nights but my eyes are open now and when good news comes I will hopefully be able to close them properly.

    "We are satisfied with how things have gone, and my family's prayers are also with me. I'm feeling good and am hoping for some good news."

  77. #77
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    update? When is the announcement due?

  78. #78
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    Expecting the worst.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanakazmi View Post
    Looks like Osman is watching Geo too, heh:

    "I am satisfied that the hearing has been very good and impartial, and I can say from our point of view at least we are hopeful. The onus is now on the judges."
    My feeling, and has screwed butt's case and made their better. Should have been like that as well!


    i OnLy StOp FoR rElOaD!

  80. #80
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    The players are happy that the process has been impartial, hopefully that will deal with some of the conspiracy nutters.

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