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17th June 2011, 23:16 #1
Indians/Hindi-speakers: Why do you use "f" instead of "ph" used in Urdu?
Online dictionaries suggest otherwise then why is it pronounced that way? An example possibly is the word "Phool" ('flower') from Urdu which is called "Fool" in Hindi. "Phir" becomes "Fir" and so on.
Just thought that it was an interesting thing to ask about.........
P.S.: Another interesting thing is the usage of "Z" and "J" absolutely contrary to Urdu. For example, "Darwaaza" ('door') as "Darwaaja" in Hindi, and "Jadojehadd" ('struggle'?) as "Zadozehadd".Last edited by DHONI183; 17th June 2011 at 23:37.
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18th June 2011, 01:49 #2
begum becomes beGHum
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18th June 2011, 01:49 #3
'Feer kuch kuch honay laga'
Zaroor = Jaroor
Zindabad = Jindabad
Zaleel = Jaleel
Zor = JorLast edited by Khabri420; 18th June 2011 at 01:50.
unkahi hi reh gayi woh baat, sab baaton ke baad
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18th June 2011, 02:04 #4
Jahil = Zahil :stylishexecutive
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18th June 2011, 02:29 #5
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So its zalebi and not Jalebi ?
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18th June 2011, 02:29 #6
IPL Jindabad!
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18th June 2011, 02:30 #7
I think Bangladeshis do the opposite. They would say Zalebi.
It is , however, Jalebi
unkahi hi reh gayi woh baat, sab baaton ke baad
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18th June 2011, 02:47 #8
Please send me Jalebis
.......
Last edited by DHONI183; 18th June 2011 at 16:58.
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18th June 2011, 02:50 #9
mere ko thooori si zalebi dene ka na
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18th June 2011, 03:17 #10
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spot on dhoni. def a pet peeve of mine when people mispronounce urdu words
also commonly butchered- anything with a kh- like khan or khushi or khwaab..also ghalib becomes gaalib
and jaheer khan...
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18th June 2011, 17:04 #11
Meiney pehley maangi thi (I asked for it first)
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The ironical thing with the swapping of "Z" for "J" and vice versa is actually supported by the online dictionaries, as it says "Darwaaja" for 'door'. This is not the case with words such as "Phir" as the dictionary puts it right.
"It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.
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18th June 2011, 18:45 #12
I really don't think any native Hindi speaker uses Fool or Darwaaja or Jadojehadd, although, I have seen multiple use of Fir.
Most of the people in India learn Hindi as a second or third language and there is always some influence of their mother-tongue on they way they pronounce Hindi words. Hence, you get all these aberrations.
My one regret in life is that I am not someone else.
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18th June 2011, 18:48 #13
mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko tere ko mere ko
Proud Shehri of Misbah Ka Pakistan
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18th June 2011, 18:57 #14
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18th June 2011, 19:21 #15
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oh i have seen plenty of people in the north say fool for phool, gajal for ghazal etc. and the worst part is when bollywood actors butcher these words( and even singers
).
part of the reason is the decline of urdu as a language in india since independence. entire generations have grown up thinking that their misprounciation is the correct way to say the word.
as to the mere ko tere ko, tune ( instead of tumne), that is pretty much delhi lingo, i used to use it growing up ( cringes), punjabi influence on hindi i think.
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18th June 2011, 23:35 #16
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Well what can I say, We Indians like 'f' a lot
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19th June 2011, 02:02 #17
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19th June 2011, 02:32 #18
Gavaskar always called
Ijaaj
Proud Shehri of Misbah Ka Pakistan
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19th June 2011, 05:51 #19
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10th July 2011, 19:46 #20
Bump!!!
It was needed considering a few recent posts by Indian PPers.
"It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.
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11th July 2011, 02:37 #21
maybe they do not have phay in Hindi so they use fay
you know how Arabs do not have pay so they call us Bakistanis
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11th July 2011, 18:09 #22
No, it does exist. It just that they pronounce it wrongly.
The word "Phool" ('flower') is written like this in their script:
फूल
The word "Phir" ('then') is written like this in their script:
फिर
Don´t know whether it is a combination of two letters or it is only one. An Indian can confirm that I hope.
I find it so funny!
Last edited by DHONI183; 11th July 2011 at 18:12.
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11th July 2011, 20:19 #23
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if you put a bindi under the hindi Fa it should be Ph sound
http://www.rizahmad.com/Docs/Urdu%20in%20Devanagari.pdf
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12th July 2011, 01:01 #24
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12th July 2011, 01:14 #25
The two most annoying language related things are as follows
The replacing Z with J
and the Arabs replacing P with B
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12th July 2011, 02:19 #26
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12th July 2011, 02:20 #27
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12th July 2011, 03:54 #28
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12th July 2011, 03:56 #29
maybe they try to say everything like gore
i mean we still call places in India the same old way , bombay , dilli , calcutta but they changed it to mumbaaaaaaaaaye , delli and kolkatta
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16th July 2011, 00:26 #30
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16th July 2011, 17:23 #31
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17th July 2011, 01:41 #32
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urdu- Larka
hindi-ladka
english-boy
i dont understand why they write it like ladka but say it like larka. also pakar liya(hindi)pakad liya
doesnt make sense to me
افضال محمود
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17th July 2011, 02:14 #33
i absolutely hate it when they say main ne us ko c-h-o-d dia
it is CHORR with an R people
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17th July 2011, 17:37 #34
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17th July 2011, 20:29 #35
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17th July 2011, 22:52 #36
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18th July 2011, 04:10 #37
they censored it anyway so you cannot use it
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19th August 2011, 15:16 #38
Yesterday, on the set of "Kaun Banega Crorepati" Season Five, Amitabh Bachchan used the word "Jilla´h" for 'district'
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20th August 2011, 03:31 #39
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Again the same thing. Originally, Hindi did NOT have the sound of "Z" or "Ph". They had sounds of "J" and "F". So, literary scholars starting adding a bindi (dot) at the bottom of the alphabet J and F to denote the sound of "Z" and "Ph". Just like someone posted the pics above.
However, most people who learn to read and write Hindi never bother with this distinction. We are taught it in school but it's not a big deal. And then also comes the influence from how you hear it around you. More often than not, when you hear it as "J" and "F", people tend to just forget the whole distinction between the "J" and the "J with the dot" and start using J and F.
However, I have always been divided on the use of Phal/Fal. Can someone give me the origins of this word? When I read the Bhagavad Gita, the word for fruit in Sanskrit is actually Phal/Fal. So that means the word was present even before the Islamic invasion. And knowing there is not the "Ph" sound in Sanskrit (despite some people pronouncing it as Ph and most people writing it as Ph - a recent thing), I think it is correctly pronounced as Fal. I tried searching if Phal has a Persian origin to it, but couldn't find it. Or it could be that since Fal was present in Sanskirt, but it was adopted in Urdu with the "Ph" sound?Last edited by RWAC; 20th August 2011 at 03:35.
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20th August 2011, 16:24 #40
"It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.
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25th August 2011, 16:50 #41
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25th August 2011, 19:54 #42
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25th August 2011, 23:33 #43
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25th August 2011, 23:36 #44
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26th August 2011, 16:17 #45
But the Wikipedia page says that in Marathi the pronunciation should read Anna Hajare
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Link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Hazare
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27th August 2011, 01:11 #46
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Hmm..I looked into it. Most likely seems that mistake that people make. I know dead sure there is no word "Hajaar" in Hindi that is equivalent to Hazaar (thousand). I tried searching if "Hajare" is a caste/ethnic name. It didn't give me any results (all linked to "Hazare"). Most likely the person editing it wrote it the way Marathis would say it i.e. with a J and not a Z. Doesn't make it correct.
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27th August 2011, 02:18 #47
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25th September 2011, 02:40 #48
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Watch from 05:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGrxorUnr48
Last edited by ITGuy; 25th September 2011 at 02:42.
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27th September 2011, 17:37 #49
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28th September 2011, 16:29 #50
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15th March 2012, 22:31 #51
My latest 'Bakra' is our own PP-er Freelance_Cricketer (http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=65183).
Posts:
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...21&postcount=8
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...8&postcount=13
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...6&postcount=82
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...&postcount=133
I guess there are only three possibilities now on PP:
1. I will leave PP for his sake.
2. He will leave PP to avoid getting annoyed.
3. He will learn it (less likely of course).........
Sunil Gavaskar referred to Aizaz Cheema as Aijaj Cheema. So many years and he hasn´t picked it
......
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16th March 2012, 16:10 #52
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Just curious about another thread title, what does Baisiti mean
They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!
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16th March 2012, 18:30 #53
You are probably referring to the following thread......
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...d.php?t=150272
To my knowledge the correct word should be "Bey-izzatee" ('Insult' or 'Non-respect to be exact literally) which is derived from the word "Izzat" ('Respect').
So that I think isn´t correct either.
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16th March 2012, 18:41 #54
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There's a bangladeshi player called Jahirul Islam.
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16th March 2012, 19:02 #55
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17th March 2012, 16:57 #56
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30th March 2012, 17:07 #57
The following deserves to be highlight here......
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...postcount=6168
.....
"It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.
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11th April 2012, 08:30 #58
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You can add j and z to the list. Indians tend to mix the two with a bias towards j.
It appears Pakistanis do the same but their bias tends towards z. Example, I see the word 'zaat' used frequently. The correct spelling (and pronunciation) should be jaat.
They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!
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11th April 2012, 15:47 #59
"It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.
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11th April 2012, 17:46 #60
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Hindi word jaati often shortened to jaat, derived from the Sanskrit jāta, “born” or “brought into existence,” and indicates a form of existence determined by birth
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/301596/jati
They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!
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11th April 2012, 17:55 #61
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11th April 2012, 18:38 #62
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13th April 2012, 08:59 #63
How come Indians pronounce the english Z fine but always end up saying Jaheer Khan ?
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13th April 2012, 09:03 #64
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^ Because he's our very own "Jaheer". No feeling of familiarity calling him Zaheer.
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13th April 2012, 09:06 #65
Jyada much much nahi karne ka kia ? :shah
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13th April 2012, 09:27 #66
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Abbe tu kyun jabardasti shaana ban raha hai be?
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13th April 2012, 17:04 #67
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13th April 2012, 23:15 #68
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10th May 2012, 10:21 #69
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10th May 2012, 10:38 #70
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10th May 2012, 10:55 #71
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A very interesting conversation indeed. Am very surprised that the 'fa' sound is from Sanskrit. Had always thought that it is Perso-Arabic in origin.
And to clear things up, adding the bindi below 'ja' and 'pha' makes them 'za' and 'fa'. This of course extends to other letters as well like 'ka' which becomes 'qa' with the dot below. But these are normally not emphasised in Hindi speech and in writing but writing or saying 'ja' instead of 'za' and 'pha' instead of 'fa' in incorrect situations would normally be considered wrong in Standard Hindi Speech and Writing.Last edited by lafz_puchnevala; 10th May 2012 at 11:05.
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31st October 2012, 22:03 #72
There are different accents you see. Like Punjabis pronounce "prayas"(effort) as "paryas".
MS Dhoni - Greatest Captain ever
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19th December 2012, 00:42 #73
Just tweeted this thread to a friend who used the word "jaroor" over there
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Last edited by DHONI183; 19th December 2012 at 14:26. Reason: A ":" removed and few needless full-stops too
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19th December 2012, 09:51 #74
Indians , how would you say this ? Faakhta phur se urr gayi
Phakta fur se ud gayi ?
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19th December 2012, 14:27 #75
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4th August 2013, 23:55 #76
Indians/Hindi-speakers: Why do you use "f" instead of "ph" used in Urdu:
Yesterday, my brother showed me some Facebook message in which an Indian man was praising some lady's hair by saying "Haseen julfei`n"!
Someone please kill me right now!
"It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.
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6th August 2013, 10:29 #77
Yeh kis jalim haseena ki julphoN ki baat ho rahi thi ? Jara tasveer tou dikhaiN
Kaisa dia ☪
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6th August 2013, 13:50 #78
Indians/Hindi-speakers: Why do you use "f" instead of "ph" used in Urdu:
"It sounds like you have a great strength of character and strong will" - Ellyse Perry about me.
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7th August 2013, 01:33 #79
Yeh tou jiyadti hai
Kaisa dia ☪
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7th August 2013, 15:04 #80