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  1. #1
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    The Kafir, Dhimmi, and Jizya

    On request of KKWC to provide references to the following:

    "The kafir has to pay jizya (humiliating minority poll tax) and live as a dhimmi (second-class citizen). If the kafir does fight for his rights and loses in battle, his wife and children become war booty."
    Quran 9:29
    "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

    In summary, there are three choices for the kafir:
    1. convert to Islam
    2. pay the jizya (humiliating minority poll tax) and live as a dhimmi (second-class subjugated citizen)
    3. fight (risk your women becoming war booty to the jihadis)


    Jizya

    Description of Jizya by Islamic scholars:

    Abu Ala Maududi (founder of Jamaat-e-Islami in Pakistan) in his book; The Meaning of the Quran, writes: Muslims were enjoined to tolerate the misguidance of the kafirs only to the extent that they might have the freedom to remain misguided if they chose to be so provided that they paid jizya as a sign of their subjugation to the Islamic State.

    Al Zamakhshari, in his commentary on the Quran wrote that "the jizya shall be taken from the dhimmis with belittlement and humiliation. The dhimmi shall come in person, walking not riding. When he pays, the dhimmi shall stand, while the tax collector sits. The collector shall seize the dhimmi by the scruff of the neck, shake him, and shout "Pay the Jizya!" and when he pays it he shall be slapped on the back of the neck."

    Al Maghili, in his commentary, explains:
    On the day of payment of the jizya, the dhimmi, should be standing there waiting in the lowest and dirtiest place. The acting officials representing the Law shall be placed above them and shall adopt a threatening attitude so that it seems to them, as well as to others, that our object is to degrade them by pretending to take their possessions. They will realize that we are doing them a favor in accepting from them the jizya and letting them go free.

    Kafir & Dhimmi
    A Kafir is an untouchable/najis along with; urine, dog, and a pig.
    http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.html
    A dhimmi is a subjugated kafir.

    War Booty

    Quran 4:23 and 4:24
    “Forbidden to you are ... married women, except those whom you own as slaves”.

    Quran 33:52
    It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is ever a Watcher over all things.”

    Commentary by Abu Ala Maududi:
    “This verse explains why one is permitted to have conjugal relations with one’s slave-girls besides the wedded wives, and there is no restriction on their number".

    Sahih Hadith Bukhari 34 351
    A man decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death and later on he was in need of money, so the Prophet took the slave and said, "Who will buy this slave from me?" Nu'aim bin 'Abdullah bought him for such and such price and the Prophet gave him the slave.
    Last edited by kraken; 7th March 2012 at 05:54.

  2. #2
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    Quran 9:29
    "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

    In summary, there are three choices for the kafir:
    1. convert to Islam
    2. pay the jizya (humiliating minority poll tax) and live as a dhimmi (second-class subjugated citizen)
    3. fight (risk your women becoming war booty to the jihadis)
    How can the Jizya tax be humiliating when it's lower than what Muslims have to pay?

    How is it humiliating when women and children don't have to pay this tax?

    Do you think Non-Muslims should pay more tax if your against the Jizya?

    Do you think they shouldn't pay tax but only Muslims?

    As a Muslim living in a non-Muslim land if I had the right to pay lower taxes than the majority Non-Muslims I would take that every day of the week.


    Kafir & Dhimmi
    A Kafir is an untouchable/najis along with; urine, dog, and a pig.
    http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.html
    A dhimmi is a subjugated kafir.
    What kind of evidence is this?

    War Booty

    Quran 4:23 and 4:24
    “Forbidden to you are ... married women, except those whom you own as slaves”.

    Quran 33:52
    It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is ever a Watcher over all things.”

    Commentary by Abu Ala Maududi:
    “This verse explains why one is permitted to have conjugal relations with one’s slave-girls besides the wedded wives, and there is no restriction on their number".

    Sahih Hadith Bukhari 34 351
    A man decided that a slave of his would be manumitted after his death and later on he was in need of money, so the Prophet took the slave and said, "Who will buy this slave from me?" Nu'aim bin 'Abdullah bought him for such and such price and the Prophet gave him the slave.
    You forgot to mention the aim of this was to give the 'slave girl' her rights as would any wife get. If she wanted she was allowed to live as a wife and her children would get the same rights as the children of other wives.

    You may not know but the Prophet Abraham(pbuh) also had a child off a slave woman. So the Jews and Christians believe in this too.

    I know for Islamaphobes like yourself it's hard to understand Islam gave people rights. This is all it's about, nothing to do with persecuting people. If Islam was about persecuting the Jews wouldn't have ran from the Christians to live under Islamic rule.

    Nice presentation but a very poor attempt Kraken. Go look up some more hate sites and come back with some answers.
    Last edited by KingKhanWC; 7th March 2012 at 06:27.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Nice presentation but a very poor attempt Kraken. Go look up some more hate sites and come back with some answers.
    not sure why you are calling as such to all Islamic sources quoted:
    Quran
    Al Islam website
    Islamic scholars
    Sahih Hadiths

  4. #4
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    Your arguments and understanding is from hate sites not all your sources. Come on kid get with it. I have to go now but please deal with the points I've made.

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    Kafir & Dhimmi
    A Kafir is an untouchable/najis along with; urine, dog, and a pig.
    http://www.al-islam.org/laws/najisthings.html
    A dhimmi is a subjugated kafir.
    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC
    What kind of evidence is this?
    Here are Quran verses with references.


    a kafir can be terrorized:

    Quran 8:12
    Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the kafirs’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”


    a kafir should not be taken as a friend by a muslim:
    KKWC’s most frequently quoted verse, so couldn’t miss this one

    Quran 3:28
    Believers should not take kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah’s protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.


    a kafir is evil:

    Quran 23:97
    And say: Oh my Lord! I seek refuge with You from the suggestions of the evil ones (kafirs). And I seek refuge with you, my Lord, from their presence.


    a kafir is disgraced:

    Quran 37:18
    Tell them, “Yes! And you (kafirs) will be disgraced.”


    a kafir is cursed, seized, and murdered:

    Quran 33: 60
    The kafirs will be cursed, and wherever they are found, they will be seized and murdered. It was Allah’s same practice with those who came before them, and you will find no change in Allah’s ways.


    a kafir can be mocked:

    Quran 83:34
    On that day the faithful will mock the kafirs, while they sit on bridal couches and watch them. Should not the kafirs be paid back for what they did?


    a kafir can be beheaded:

    Quran 47: 4
    When you encounter the kafirs on the battlefield, cut off their heads until you have thoroughly defeated them and then take the prisoners and tie them up firmly.


    a kafir can be plotted against:

    Quran 86:15
    They plot and scheme against you [Prophet Muhammed (saw)], and I plot and scheme against them (kafirs). Therefore, deal calmly with the kafirs and leave them alone for a while.


    Why so much 'kafir-o-phobia'?

    Can you provide a single positive verse from the Quran with the words kafir/unbeliver/non-muslim in it?

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    oh I think you forgot these verses as well,

    Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. (60:8)

    Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. (60:9)

    oh and this one answers your challenge

    Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans [before Prophet Muhammad] - those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness - will have their reward with their Lord, and no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve. [2: 62]

    Oh and this is [33: 60] from an actual translation and not a made up translation

    If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little. [33: 60]


    Quite hypocritical of those who say they want proper proofs and then they go on Islamophobe sites and copy and paste everything from there not caring one bit about the authenticity of what they are posting, "its true as long as it insults Islam"
    Last edited by cric_craze; 7th March 2012 at 07:14.

  7. #7
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    Kraken can you please tell what organized religion do you follow if you do follow any religion?

  8. #8
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    Kraken is obviously copy and pasting from anti-Islamic websites. Nice try.

  9. #9
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    As per research, in some parts of islamic empires, non-muslims had to pay very high 70%+ tax.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    Quran 9:29
    "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

    In summary, there are three choices for the kafir:
    1. convert to Islam
    2. pay the jizya (humiliating minority poll tax) and live as a dhimmi (second-class subjugated citizen)
    3. fight (risk your women becoming war booty to the jihadis)
    Why do I feel Islamophobic suddenly?

  11. #11
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    can we have some rebuttal to these claims made by OP please.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
    aap ne naam to liyā merā
    -----Jaun Eliya

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    can we have some rebuttal to these claims made by OP please.
    I did refute them. He claims that the "koran" is filled with hatred for non muslims and challenged someone to show him a verse, read the verse I posted. And it should also be noted that this verse in Surah Tawbah he posted was revealed in a time of battle.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Why do I feel Islamophobic suddenly?
    He's worded ( or whoever has from the site he copied it from) cleverly into making you think like that. Jizya is not humiliating tax. It is the tax being paid by non-muslims instead of zakah which Muslims are required to pay.

    And no this verse does not allow Muslims to invade random people and deal with them in this manner. This verse was revealed dealing with the Meccans who had persecuted the Muslims and drove them out of Mecca.

    Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. [60: 8]

    Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. [60: 9]

    oh and I can guarantee you he will rebuttal my arguments by copying and pasting something from that site because he on his own has no knowledge.
    Last edited by cric_craze; 7th March 2012 at 11:22.

  14. #14
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    Kafir :


    Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic term used in a Islamic doctrinal sense, usually translated as "unbeliever" or "disbeliever". The term refers to a person who rejects God or who hides, denies, or covers the "truth". Even though labeling infidelity is referred usually to Islam, it effectively belongs also to Christianity and Judaism in a way or another.

    source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir

    Dhimmi :

    A dhimmī (Arabic: ذمي‎ ḏimmī IPA: [ˈđɪmmiː]), (collectively أهل الذمة ahl al-ḏimmah/dhimmah, "the people of the dhimma") is a non-Muslim subject of a state governed in accordance with sharia law. Linguistically, the word means "one whose responsibility has been taken". This has to be understood in the context of the definition of state in Islam. Dhimma allows rights of residence in return for taxes. According to scholars, Dhimmi's have the same social responsibilities and rights as Muslims. They are excused or excluded from specific duties assigned to Muslims, and otherwise equal under the laws of property, contract and obligation.

    Under sharia law, dhimmi status was originally afforded to Jews, Christians, and Sabians. The protected religions later came to include Zoroastrians, Mandaeans, Hindus and Buddhists. Eventually, the largest school of Islamic legal thought applied this term to all non-Muslims living in Islamic lands outside the sacred area surrounding Mecca, Saudi Arabia.

    As an example of the distinctions between Muslims, dhimmis, and others, sharia law permits the consumption of pork and alcohol by non-Muslims living in Islamic countries, although they may not be openly displayed. These same commodities are expressly forbidden to Muslims. The largest school of legal thought in Islam i.e. the Hanafi school does not make any distinction between a non-Muslim dhimmi and a Muslim citizen.

    source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi


    Jizya

    Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزية‎ ǧizyah IPA: [dʒizja]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye; both derived from Pahlavi and possibly from Aramaic gaziyat[ is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is/was to be levied on able bodied adult males of military age and affording power, (but with specific exemptions, From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes." In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.

    It is also worth mentioning here that the word Jizya is derived from the root word that refers to “part”, hence taken from a part of the wealth of the non-Muslim citizens. In fact, the use of the word jizya was not even necessary. Al-Tabari wrote that some members of the Christian community asked the companion “Umar bin al-Khatab if they could refer to the jizya as sadaqah which literally means “charity”, which he approved of.

    source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya

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    Kraken mate you are suffering from a phobia called Islamophobia, I suggest you should visit a psychiatrist. Understanding Quranic verses is not so easy as copy paste. You should study each verse of the Quran with the circumstances and time in which each verse was revealed. You can't hide your hatred towards Islam because it is too evident from your posts. May you recover soon from your illness.

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    Believers should not take kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah’s protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.
    What? this isn't true is it???

    Prophet(s) use to treat non-muslims with respect. Infact i read in a book that even when he moved to Media, he still use to have trade and bussiness talks with Abu Sufiyan.......

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    If the kafir does fight for his rights and loses in battle, his wife and children become war booty."
    But your missing one thing


    The prophet always said that treat the war prisoners with respect.. Feed them. Share your bread... Infact people at that time, use to give their whole bread to the prisoners, while they themself only ate dates...

    and its not like they use to keep the war prisoners for ever... THey had to pay a ransom....

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cric_craze View Post
    He's worded ( or whoever has from the site he copied it from) cleverly into making you think like that. Jizya is not humiliating tax. It is the tax being paid by non-muslims instead of zakah which Muslims are required to pay.

    And no this verse does not allow Muslims to invade random people and deal with them in this manner. This verse was revealed dealing with the Meccans who had persecuted the Muslims and drove them out of Mecca.

    Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. [60: 8]

    Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers. [60: 9]

    oh and I can guarantee you he will rebuttal my arguments by copying and pasting something from that site because he on his own has no knowledge.
    Yeah your right... He is just being anti-Islamic... Just copy and pastes stuff that he himself doesn't understand.. Also copying stuff from hate sites...

    Understanding Quranic verses is not so easy as copy paste. You should study each verse of the Quran with the circumstances and time in which each verse was revealed. You can't hide your hatred towards Islam because it is too evident from your posts. May you recover soon from your illness.
    +1... totally agree
    Last edited by shahrukh619; 7th March 2012 at 14:05.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=kraken;4668289]Here are Quran verses with references.


    a kafir can be terrorized:

    Quran 8:12
    Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the kafirs’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”


    This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.
    a kafir should not be taken as a friend by a muslim:
    KKWC’s most frequently quoted verse, so couldn’t miss this one

    Quran 3:28
    Believers should not take kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah’s protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.

    It is true though isn't it? Look at how the Christian and Jewish countries treat the Muslim countries. Look at Iraq. Chose friendship with America over Iran and at the end what happened.
    a kafir is evil:

    Quran 23:97
    And say: Oh my Lord! I seek refuge with You from the suggestions of the evil ones (kafirs). And I seek refuge with you, my Lord, from their presence.

    Depends upon your interpretation here. I always read the evil ones to be the devils and not kafirs
    a kafir is disgraced:

    Quran 37:18
    Tell them, “Yes! And you (kafirs) will be disgraced.”

    037.018
    YUSUFALI: Say thou: "Yea, and ye shall then be humiliated (on account of your evil)."
    a kafir is cursed, seized, and murdered:

    Quran 33: 60
    The kafirs will be cursed, and wherever they are found, they will be seized and murdered. It was Allah’s same practice with those who came before them, and you will find no change in Allah’s ways.
    33:57 Lo! those who malign Allah and His messenger, Allah hath cursed them in the world and the Hereafter, and hath prepared for them the doom of the disdained.

    33:58 And those who malign believing men and believing women undeservedly, they bear the guilt of slander and manifest sin.

    33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

    33:60 If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbours in it but a little while.

    Now listen to this.

    "The huntsman killed the wolf."

    Own its own it sounds like the huntsman is some sadistic human being who kills animals for fun. However, when you add:

    "the huntsman killed the wolf who was about to have little red riding hood for lunch"

    Now the huntsman is a hero.

    I know that Islamophobia is strong in you but please realise this that the Torah, Bible and the Quran came down in verses and during important events and therefore should be read in context of that. If you take anything out of context then you change the meaning completely.


    Whenever Nawaz wins, he divides PMLN equally. He keeps PM for himself and gives L N to the people.

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    kraken has duly dissapeared and is probably sending all these threads in an email to one of his islamaphobic friends wh will then try and formulate a response..kraken answer the rebuttals above or never ever start a thread like this again ..coward!

    as for the tax issue, lol..considering the amount of tax we all pay, the zakat and jizya method would be a godsend to many of us!!

    Rober;t I expected better from you!

  21. #21
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    The Quran has always referred to the leaders and not the ordinary Non-Muslim civilians/people. For example the Prophet and Quran have always been against the leaders of Quraish and not the people of Mecca. Abu Lahab, the Prophet's uncle even get's his own Surat, and he was a leader. The Quran therefore has always been against the evil establishment.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    Rober;t I expected better from you!
    GK, I am flattered that you expect better things of me, but I do suggest you learn to recognise sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kraken View Post
    Here are Quran verses with references.


    a kafir can be terrorized:

    Quran 8:12
    Then your Lord spoke to His angels and said, “I will be with you. Give strength to the believers. I will send terror into the kafirs’ hearts, cut off their heads and even the tips of their fingers!”


    a kafir should not be taken as a friend by a muslim:
    KKWC’s most frequently quoted verse, so couldn’t miss this one

    Quran 3:28
    Believers should not take kafirs as friends in preference to other believers. Those who do this will have none of Allah’s protection and will only have themselves as guards. Allah warns you to fear Him for all will return to Him.


    a kafir is evil:

    Quran 23:97
    And say: Oh my Lord! I seek refuge with You from the suggestions of the evil ones (kafirs). And I seek refuge with you, my Lord, from their presence.


    a kafir is disgraced:

    Quran 37:18
    Tell them, “Yes! And you (kafirs) will be disgraced.”


    a kafir is cursed, seized, and murdered:

    Quran 33: 60
    The kafirs will be cursed, and wherever they are found, they will be seized and murdered. It was Allah’s same practice with those who came before them, and you will find no change in Allah’s ways.


    a kafir can be mocked:

    Quran 83:34
    On that day the faithful will mock the kafirs, while they sit on bridal couches and watch them. Should not the kafirs be paid back for what they did?


    a kafir can be beheaded:

    Quran 47: 4
    When you encounter the kafirs on the battlefield, cut off their heads until you have thoroughly defeated them and then take the prisoners and tie them up firmly.


    a kafir can be plotted against:

    Quran 86:15
    They plot and scheme against you [Prophet Muhammed (saw)], and I plot and scheme against them (kafirs). Therefore, deal calmly with the kafirs and leave them alone for a while.


    Why so much 'kafir-o-phobia'?

    Can you provide a single positive verse from the Quran with the words kafir/unbeliver/non-muslim in it?
    Amazing so many quotes and all out of context just to put it right Kaffir means unbeliever someone who has been exposed to and rejected the teaching of islam, a non-muslim is someone who has not had sufficient exposure to islam to make a decision on whether he wants to accept islam or not

    99% of non-muslims are non-muslims whilst 1% of them are kaffir in this day and age because many people muslim and non-muslim cannot identify the truth of islam from all the lies that have been attributed to it. However all non-muslim governments are Kaffir as they ahve made islamapobia are a valid governmental policy

  24. #24
    Debut
    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    GK, I am flattered that you expect better things of me, but I do suggest you learn to recognise sarcasm.
    Lol..it was a joke..


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