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  1. #1
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    Will Dav Whatmore read this?

    Dear Dav,

    This has been written before but I have been trying to sorta take this off my chest for some time now, and today and I am taking the liberty of sharing it with you in a hope that you may find something in it that could help Pakistan cricket in a remote possibility. I would like to break this down in a few pieces and try to address this long lingering and painful issue of batting crisis in Pakistani team. I would also love to have your input, feedback, disagreement and suggestions to conclude a solid knowledge base.

    Lets start with the simple basic rule of engineering.

    ďIdentify the problem and find the root cause before fixing itĒ.

    Putting a bandage each time to cover up the wound will simply do more damage in the long run. These bandages will fall off one after the other someday and you will have a red swollen body exposed.

    Lets identify the problems in Pakistan batting.

    (1) One Dimensional Players.
    (2) Poor batting technique and short temperament.


    One Dimensional players:
    What we mostly have is sloggers or blockers. When sloggers are asked to play slow they lose their wicket. When blockers are asked to accelerate the run rate they lose their wicket. The batting line can be divided into two groups with Asad Shafiq perhaps being somewhat exception in the Venn diagram.

    First Group: Umer Akmal, Afridi
    Second Group: Younus Khan, Misbah ul Haq, Hafeez, Taufeeq and somewhat Azhar Ali.

    Both groups miserably lack versatility and the ability to speed up or slow down to cope with the gameís situation.

    Poor batting technique and short temperament:

    I will start with the back-lift of the cricket bat. Our batsmen play with a seriously low back lift which ends up in feeble pushes and nudges which means the ball usually does NOT reach the boundary even if the shot is played in the gap. There is hardly any solidity in the stroke. Also, the direction of the back-lift is extremely poor. Our batsmen bring the bat down on the ball from the direction of fourth slip instead of bringing it down from the direction of wicket keeper. The opening of the face of the bat is another painful issue.
    These three things are the major, major differences between legends of the game and Pakistanís current batsmen. See the comparative pictures below and analyze the height, direction of back-lift and face opening of the bat by professor Hafeez, Misbah, YK and Azhar Ali and compare it with Sehwag, Tendulkar, Ponting.

    Hafeez



    Low and feeble back lift from the direction of goddamn fourth slip. Look at the closed face of the bat facing towards the ground.


    Misbah

    Same thing. No fire, no intensity and no blaze with a half hearted LOW back lift utterly coming down onto the ball from the direction of slips. Notice the dead bat face facing towards the ground.



    Here is Younus Khan

    Half heart back-lift. The bat will coming down from the direction of slips to meet the ball. Slight misjudgment on the speed of a faster delivery and the ball will pass thru the gate. With this back lift, it wonít reach the boundary unless the ball is hit by some sorta jaw dropping timing.

    Azhar Ali






    Hammad Azam



    Bat toe facing towards slip, and bat face facing towards the ground.

    Poor souls. Following the footsteps of their seniors since there is no one to mentor on how to effectively play with the right batting technique.

  2. #2
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    Now let’s do the comparison and see the other side of universe.


    Sehwag




    Look at the height of back lift, the bat is coming down from the direction of stumps, bent back, and bat’s face opened towards point.

    Sachin


    Same thing as Sehwag: High back lift coming down from the direction of stumps, bent back, bat’s face opened towards point. Bat’s toe pointing towards the sky and not the slips.


    Ponting





    Notice the same exact thing again.
    High back lift coming down from the direction of stumps, bent back, bat’s face opened towards point. Bat’s toe pointing towards the sky.


    Sakib Al-Hasan


    Sakib is not a legend but at least got the basics right.
    Bat lifted in alignment with the keeper's stance, toe pointing towards the sky and bat face opened towards point.


    As you may noticed; The open face of the bat towards point fielder and HIGH back lift of Sehwag, Tendulkar, Ponting and Sakib Al-Hasan - will make the bat come onto the ball from the wicket keeper's direction with full open face. (You should avoid using high back lift against only ONE bowler and that's no one else but Lasith Malinga)

    I mean, our coaches, our batting culture and our training cannot catch and fix the freaking basics! How can we have solid batsmen playing long innings?? Absolutely pathetic stuff by players who have qualified to play in the national squad. I am not even talking about footwork that must go along with the high back lift. Find a few video clips of Brian Lara on youtube and see how high was his back lift? See how low he used to bend down to cover the ball and what kind of a foot work he had to support the timing and power in his strokes.
    Here is a pic. Bat face opened towards point, astronomically high back lift. Fully bent back.



    The math is VERY SIMPLE. Once you have a high back lift, you are always ready to hit and you are always ready to play defensive. Both options are open.
    But once you have a low feeble back-lift, you are either bound to blocking or end up in useless pushes and nudges. It becomes hard to make natural strokes with low and powerless back-lift unless you are a super good timer of the cricket ball. And very importantly, you lose on bat speed.
    Almost ALL of our players severely lack the bat speed with that ugly looking back lift.

  3. #3
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    Then comes the short temperament issue. Where does it come from and how can it be turned into solid mindset where the Pakistani batsmen could play mind games and frustrate the bowlers and fielders alike by taking constant singles and doubles? I will talk about it in the root cause analysis.
    And before we go to the root cause.

    Must say I am amazed at the audacity of Pakistani supporters to live in the fantasy of watching fours and sixes from our so called "Talented" players.

    Talent...that word should be banned from Pakistan cricket....I think Talent in the context of cricket means to have great hand-eye coordination, ability to play unusual strokes on good deliveries, play all around the wicket and not just be limited to the off or the leg side, hit big when required and rotate strike when needed.... In every aspect of life, ALWAYS remember my friends:
    Talent and ambition are useless if not supported by hard work and a functioning brain.
    The soft way our batsmen gift away their wickets after playing substantial amount of balls is just laughable, really.

    We Pakistanis are obsessed with talented players...its a never ending romance....We love to see players who can play crappy shots (paddle sweep to a fast bower, scoop shot, reverse sweep) and hit big......Talent is overrated, only hard work pays off....

    The root cause.


    Take a look back at the history. In Pakistan we had a lot less cricket played in early 70's but we produced greats like The Muhammad brothers, the elegant Majid Khan, the street fighter Javed Miandad, runs making machines Abbas etc.
    And now Quantity has taken over Quality. Cricket is played in every single street of Pakistan. Everyone is playing cricket but we are unable to produce solid batsmen. .. u know why ?

    It’s the Tape ball cricket !

    Playing proper cricket is an expensive sport and obviously a big majority of our population can neither afford it nor do we have enough grounds/facilities, so naturally the entire nation turned towards Rs 100 bat, a few white rolls of electric tape and a tennis ball. All good and fun But ...

    This is the “cancer” of tape ball cricket that has plagued the mindset and batting approach of our kids right at the start of their cricket careers. There is no concept of cheeky singles, rotating the strike, elegant stroke making, developing a solid defense, smart and elite running skills between the wickets, developing timing to hit with minimal effort .... Just slog, slog, and slog. Youngsters play 10 to 15 initial years with tape ball and it starts to run in their blood. This mindset is evident when our batsmen are put against a good line/length bowling. They can't get those bad deliveries to be hit for boundaries and they immediately start going into panic. A boundary is not hit so the batsman feels like being caught like a deer in the headlights. He becomes clueless as how to handle the pressure as the only way he thinks to release the pressure is to hit fours and sixes (on bad balls that are not available anymore).

    There is no concept of replying the pressure with smart and technical play of stealing singles and doubles till the bowler gets frustrated and starts bowling bad deliveries.

    Tape ball MAY help produce pace bowlers but unfortunately we are getting dry there as well. The ONLY thing that may support our playing with Tape Ball cricket is that int'l cricket is somewhat moving towards that slogging type of cricket after popularity of T20. Batsmen’s mindset are changing now. We hardly see any batsmen who could stay on the wicket for three days in a test match. When was the last time you saw a batsman carrying his bat in a test match? So this change may help us a little but again, technique of slogging a hard ball is a world apart from the technique (or no technique) of slogging a tape ball.

    So how to take some initial steps in the right direction so that we could dramatically improve our batting culture and produce solid batsmen?

    The Solution


    First step.

    PCB should launch a program where young emerging batsmen (around the age of 14) should be pooled up in a large group and these youngsters must be banned from playing any kind of tape ball cricket at any level IF they desire to play for national squad (again, pay attention here, I am talking about batsmen and not the pace bowlers). Just get them young batsmen ready to play and practice with a regular hard ball under a good batting coach.

    Second Step.

    Our instinctive response after every failure is,, sack this player, sack that player... sack PCB chairman, sack selectors, shuffle the batting order, remove the captain etc. I am convinced that we need to change our batting approach towards the game..... replacing or shuffling is not always the right answer... we are all at the same level of physical ability as any other int'l player. We just fail to deliver.

    The math is pretty simple, when you are under pressure (say top order is diminished within 20 runs), you do not respond by blocking every freaking delivery and wait for a bad ball to hit a boundary but you must respond with singles and doubles....
    This requires ability and skill that we seriously lack ... and here is the plan how to develop this skill.

    Domestic performance SHOULD be a factor but not THE ONLY factor towards a player's qualification in getting selected for the national squad. Our selectors must get rid of this beaten up approach of jumping into the domestic cricket scoring books and blindly picking the highest run makers. This will keep many players out of the picture who are domestic machos but big time tried and tested failures in the international arena. Looking beyond what’s obvious has also helped us in the past. It was when we had those set of eyes that would identify the diamond in the dust and picked normal/ordinary players from the domestic cricket who turned out to be legends in the international arena… Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and to some extent Inzamam are examples.


    The game plan



    Look, you are not born a body builder... you work hard to build those muscles, and just like that, we need to develop this skill of quick, fast, aggressive and intelligent running between the wickets. We must also need to develop that ability to blaze up with intensity or slow down things a little when required.

    Developing THE VERSATILITY is what we are after.
    Together with regular practice sessions; Introduce this drill among the selected pool of potential young batsmen for the national squad.

    During the practice sessions, keep 6 fielders inside the circle and 3 outside, and make every batsman face 100 deliveries. Send in two batsmen to bat against a mix of fast and spin bowling.

    If the batsman hits a 4 or a 6 in his FIRST 50 runs, these boundary runs will be deducted from his total runs.

    The batsman will be free to hit boundaries after scoring first 50 runs primarily with singles/ doubles/triples. A computerized database should be generated where all the records of each batsman should be saved for detailed analysis. Sharp and agile fielders who display great skills of preventing the singles, catching and running the batsman out should also be given credit in the database analysis. So whoever scores the highest runs after facing 100 balls becomes the most successful batsman of the day. This should increase his chances of getting into the national squad. This practice session should be held at least once or preferably twice a day for every specialist batsman on a non-stop basis for at least one year before a final analysis is made. The emphasis should be on developing the skill of hitting into the gaps and stealing singles and doubles, and also improving running between the wickets.

    Eager kids who really want to ace the day will strive towards learning every possible way to make singles/doubles in the first 50 balls faced. They will not leave any stone left unturned to find out ways of sharpening their skills. And in normalcy if a batsman has faced 50 odd balls with good scoring rate and with warmed up legs it becomes a piece of cake to hit big. The developed skill of innovating singles and doubles will be automatically triggered when the batsman is sent to bat in pressure situations in an actual game.

    I guarantee that this will sharpen our batsmen mentally and it will elevate their skills and confidence level. They will be well versed with how to play mind games with the bowlers and frustrate the fielders until they crap out.

    The actual Challenge for Dav Whatmore …
    .

    Dealing with incompetent and unqualified administration at PCB and direct or indirect pressure from our good ole politicians. And what happens when you have incompetent and unqualified people placed on the key positions through nepotism and political based hiring?? These guys develop astronomical egos.

    Unfortunately what I have seen is that this ‘incompetent and unqualified’ mindset by default does not try to find the perfect solution for the problem at hands. Whenever these guys get together to solve an issue, no one cares about the solution .... its ALWAYS a spat about ..
    YOUR idea vs MY idea
    .. and no one cares about the RIGHT idea.

    Dav Whatmore must understand the short comings of the people he is dealing within the PCB and outside the PCB. And hopefully our cricket will be put to the direction from there on.


    Two minor things that Dave Whatmore will find quite idiotic in our on field set up and hopefully he takes care of it.

    1. When there is an opportunity of a run out on a sharp single, the Pakistani keeper (no matter who that is) starts yelling the fielders name …., MISBAH BHAI, MISBAH BHAI, MISBAH BHAI !!! or, SHAHID BHAI, SHAHID BHAI, SHAHID BHAI!! Or, HAFEEZ BHAI, HAFEEZ BHAI, HAFEEZ BHAI!!! So the fielder while collecting the ball and trying to run the batsman out has no way to immediately figure to shoot at which end? The bowler’s end or the keeper’s end?

    The keeper MUST not yell out anyone’s name, he should direct the fielder towards the right direction to shoot at, by saying …. Keeper, keeper, keeper !!! OR bowler, bowler, bowler !!!

    2. Second, during a mix up that causes a run out between two Pak batsmen, there is an immediate start of short verbal spat supported by hands and arms animation on the pitch. Please train Pak players how to behave maturely after a run out by showing them some clips of the Australian or South African or English players as how do they deal with the situation with controlled emotions.

  4. #4
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    Good analysis.

  5. #5
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    Sorry but your back lift points are a total non-starter. All players have a different style, some high back lift others low back lift. It is not some technical flaw to have a low back lift. Younus Khan is probably Pakistan's most successful batsman across all conditions and as you point out yourself, he doesn't have a huge back lift.

  6. #6
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    POTWx3!

  7. #7
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    Great work! Loved reading it!

  8. #8
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    Bat lift thing is perfect...Our coaches used to insist on this thing in coaching camps when we kids.

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    funny how you mentioned technique and temperament and then put sehwag's name there...

    YK doesn't have the technique? ok so guy averages over 50 in test cricket with a poor technique? That's new..

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    Amazing effort on the posts. Commendable work.

    Nice pick up on the bat lifts. Although, Younus Khan is probably a good example against your point instead of for it. He's done brilliantly in test cricket.

    Nonetheless, pointing towards fourth slip/point is a flaw. Younus Khan doing it is an outlier, does not make it right and OP is correct. Batting coaches are always critiquing the angle of the bat lift, it should never be angled towards point otherwise you increase chances of nicking it or missing it.

    High and low bat lifts are a personal choice, though.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  11. #11
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    Potw


    Full credit to Micky Arthur for realizing Babar Azam was born to bat at 3 in all formats.

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    Good post, perhaps somebody up in the PP ranks could forward it on to Whatmore to read.

  13. #13
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    Good effort my friend, but you are starting off the wrong foot picking on angle of bat and backlift.

    If you've played cricket, you may already know that the key to hitting the ball hard is picking it's length early enough so you get into the right position. Nothing to do with backlift.


    I also don't agree with the general assertion that Pakistani batsmen are one-dimensional. It's the approach that is "safety first" which reflects in our cricket, perhaps Misbah's doing (nothing wrong with it).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Umpire View Post

    If you've played cricket, you may already know that the key to hitting the ball hard is picking it's length early enough so you get into the right position. Nothing to do with backlift.
    I disagree.

    Executing your stroke has everything to do with the back lift. If you have your bat angled towards point, you will be coming in from the side. It's a matter of seconds, but it slows down your bat speed.

    The idea is to play the ball straight. If you come in from the angle, you are open to nicking it. The bat should be coming in a vertical movement, not a horizontal movement.

    As you can see from those images, the Pakistani batsman first have to bring the bat in and then go through the motion. While, Punter and the Indians already have the bat straight, they just have to go through the motion.

    It's easier for them then it is for any of those Pakistani batsmen. Like I said, Younus is the exception here.

    Look at Yousuf here.



    Perfect back lift.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  15. #15
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    Some more examples of straight back lifts. The proper technique.





    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

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    A higher more vertical backlift will give more power perhaps, but not necessarily add shots to your foray. it is perfectly possible to play effectively in the V with a diagonal back lift.

    Yes, your shots in the V won't be hit as hard, but with fast bowlers bowling at 85+ mph, all you need to do is time the ball and it will fly. The extra kinetic energy from the higher back lift will give minimal incremental returns.

    Also, not to mention, diagonal back lifts have the advantage playing horizontal bat shots particularly on the offside because your elbows are better positioned to extend through the ball, as opposed to straight back lift where they are tucked in to your ribs.

  17. #17
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    Even Sir W. G. Grace


  18. #18
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    see this video



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jTe_3TFtDE

    ^^ Michael Vaughan
    Last edited by Khabri420; 9th May 2012 at 06:25.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Umpire View Post
    A higher more vertical backlift will give more power perhaps, but not necessarily add shots to your foray. it is perfectly possible to play effectively in the V with a diagonal back lift.

    Yes, your shots in the V won't be hit as hard, but with fast bowlers bowling at 85+ mph, all you need to do is time the ball and it will fly. The extra kinetic energy from the higher back lift will give minimal incremental returns.

    Also, not to mention, diagonal back lifts have the advantage playing horizontal bat shots particularly on the offside because your elbows are better positioned to extend through the ball, as opposed to straight back lift where they are tucked in to your ribs.
    Ah, now you are getting into adjustments based on different tracks.

    Yes, batsmen tend to open up when the tracks are bouncier. It allows for easier access to the pull shot. Don't disagree with you there.

    However, on normal wickets without that extra bounce, it is preferred to have that straight bat lift. Now, when we say straight, it doesn't not been 100% straight. There are a rare few batsmen who go that straight.

    The straight bat is usually pointed to first slip or within that range. Allowing easy access to both shots. Thus, you are not tucked into your ribs as much.

    The woeful bat lifts are those that are pointed towards point. This and the lack of footwork are a major reason why our batsmen tend to get caught out in the slips when the ball starts moving.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    Ah, now you are getting into adjustments based on different tracks.

    Yes, batsmen tend to open up when the tracks are bouncier. It allows for easier access to the pull shot. Don't disagree with you there.

    However, on normal wickets without that extra bounce, it is preferred to have that straight bat lift. Now, when we say straight, it doesn't not been 100% straight. There are a rare few batsmen who go that straight.

    The straight bat is usually pointed to first slip or within that range. Allowing easy access to both shots. Thus, you are not tucked into your ribs as much.

    The woeful bat lifts are those that are pointed towards point. This and the lack of footwork are a major reason why our batsmen tend to get caught out in the slips when the ball starts moving.
    I do agree that a straight back lift is technically more sound, of that there is no doubt. However, I disagree with the OP in that the lack of power is due to crooked bat lifts.

    I also disagree generally that our batsmen don't hit powerfully enough, as I said in my first post in this thread.

    Always fun to have technical discussions with knowledgeable posters

  21. #21
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    Excellent analysis. The back lift definitely has a part to play with the likes of Hafeez and Misbah regularly being found playing across the line, very susceptible to LBW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FusedBulb View Post

    Misbah

    Same thing. No fire, no intensity and no blaze with a half hearted LOW back lift utterly coming down onto the ball from the direction of slips. Notice the dead bat face facing towards the ground.


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    Good analysis


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

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    All you have done is caught the batsmen at different stages in their backlift, this does not prove anything. Also the ideal backlift is for the Bat to be pointing at 1st or 2nd slip, too straight does not all , too straight does not allow you to get your wrists into the shot.
    Appreciate the effort put in, however backlifts is not the issue with our batsmen. The shot you have of Misbah is before his backlift has even started, its him waiting for the ball to be released.
    The real issue is patience and shot selection . That is probably the biggest issue with a lot of our young batsmen, knowing on which ball to play what shot. Footwork and things like head positions are also issues , however there are many batsmen who also have good footwork in Pakistan, its a matter of having the temperament and determination to adapt to different conditions , if technique was such a big issue why has chanderpaul been so successful? He is probably the complete opposite in every respect of what coaches say.

    Technique is overrated

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    Which is why we are so successful vs Lasith Malinga + your picture where you have Azam with a low back lift is flawed. He is playing a spinner and you don't have the same back lift with a spinner as you do pace.

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    I think these pictures are not a true depiction of the backlift of some of these guys.

    I also think simply having a high backlift with bat coming from the direction of keeper or first slip is everything.

    Shiv Chanderpaul has the weirdest of stances. I am sure he doesnt fit into this criterea.

    Graham Gooch and Aamer Sohail had very similar backlift (albeit different hands) and yet while Gooch was the number batsman of his era for a long time, Aamer Sohail was slightly above average and nothing extra special.

    Different strokes for different blokes.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

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    So now I understand why Amir Sohail was so strict and unusual(compared to Pakistani standards) with his backlift. I always thought he was trying to act very "English" with his batting stance. When I used to bat with high backlift with direction fo the bat coming from the stumps, people used to think I was trying to act "****."

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    A novice would read this thread and believe that you need a high back lift to be able to become a world class player.

    How about this one. Rahul Dravid has faced more deliveries in his career than any other cricketer that has ever existed. He has a low back lift. He is also considered one of the most technically sound batsmen to have ever played the game. If his technique was as fundamentally flawed as the OP makes out, well we need to re-write the history books.

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    Interesting thread. I appreciate you taking out the time to analyze the mistakes and offering solutions, which may or may not be correct but still better than most people on PP who have rather simplistic criticism and solutions, like sack so and so and hire so and so, or change the batting order etc. I totally agree with the tape ball problem. I am not sure how much prevelant tape ball is in India, but they seem to be producing much better batsmen than us over the last few decades, so they must be doing something right, maybe more coaching at the school level. Although I feel with the recent rise of IPL and T20 cricket, Indian batting is going to get worse over a period of time. Pakistan is probably technically the worst side in cricket. We win games out of sheer talent, passion and luck. That is why we do end up winning a tournament here and there or a series but are unlikely to dominate world cricket like Australia did and before that West Indies. In any case, great effort.
    Last edited by saadibaba; 8th May 2012 at 23:52.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saadibaba View Post
    Interesting thread. I appreciate you taking out the time to analyze the mistakes and offering solutions, which may or may not be correct but still better than most people on PP who have rather simplistic criticism and solutions, like sack so and so and hire so and so, or change the batting order etc. I totally agree with the tape ball problem. I am not sure how much prevelant tape ball is in India, but they seem to be producing much better batsmen than us over the last few decades, so they must be doing something right, maybe more coaching at the school level. Although I feel with the recent rise of IPL and T20 cricket, Indian batting is going to get worse over a period of time. Pakistan is probably technically the worst side in cricket. We win games out of share talent, passion and luck. That is why we do end up winning a tournament here and there or a series but are unlikely to dominate world cricket like Australia did and before that West Indies. In any case, great effort.

    I have wrote a whole thread on the batting issues and highlight the tape ball the main culprit for the batting woes in Pakistani cricket.

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...d.php?t=150053

    Quote Originally Posted by zaid65 View Post
    I grew up watching Zaheer Abbas, Majid Khan, Asif Iqbal, than I saw the era of Javed Miandad and Inzi and lastly I witnessed the master strokes of Yousuf as regular and geniune batsmen.

    Majority of the current batsmen ( Misbah, Younis, Afridi, Umar Akmal, Hafeez) are the product of tape ball and galli cricket. There is no technique other than tuk tuk ( from Misbah and Younis) or close the eyes and hit straight out of the ground or air shots.

    Current batsmen are not product of ground or real form of cricket, they all have started playing cricket on the streets with tape ball. (Remember in recent years, majority of the grounds have been converted to shopping plaza, there are only few grounds available for the kids play cricket) . This is why apart from playing shots in V cordon, you don't see these batsmen playing proper cricket shots. Remember on street, apart from playing straight drive, there are very little other options

    You don't see Pakistani batsmen playing proper cut shots, cover drive, playing on the fine leg, hook or pull shots, shots where you can score the boundaries and score runs. There is no foot work, bat and pad don't come together and on difficult wickets, this problem even appear more clear and visible. These players have adopted their approach to the level, I don't think any coach or any Einstein can fix this flaw. This has stick to their muscle memory and brain cells ( unless PCB will hire a Neuro Surgeon to implant the brain).

    Some of them who have better temperament, use some brain ( as oppose to not using brain) will block good or bad balls, try to save the wickets to hit out at the end and others with poor impulse control and lack of brain cells, try to hit out good or bad balls, sometime on their day, they connect some good balls and score runs and become hero, sometime during their off day ( which is the case most of the time), they will miss bad ball and loose their wicket and become zero.

    Almost all of the teams and their coaches have figured our batsmen out. When they bowl, they plugged the fielders in the V cordon ( which is the strength of majority of the Pakistani batsmen), which makes it difficult for them to score and dry the run scoring machine, in that situation, either they play maiden balls or when try to hit it out, sometime they succeed, but most of the time, they give away their wicket.

    So above was the analysis of our batting failure, the only way to solve this issue, find the proper and genuine batsman based on technique and have proper cricketing shots, do not draft a batsman based on his domestic score ( which is a deceiving indicator in Pakistan cricket, because majority of these players have connections with the umpires).

    So far, there are two batsmen who can play their shots in all over the ground, one is Umar Akmal and other one is Ahmad Shehzad, both have behavioral issues, but I would still take my chance players with behavioral issues than players with mental issues.


    You don't know and you don't know that you don't know.

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    zaid...I don't think playing galli cricket teaches playing in the V. Playing in the V requires head over the ball, and foot to the pitch of the ball. If neither of the happen, the ball will definitely go square (see the Michael Vaughn video posted earlier).

    How many galli cricket batsmen bring their feet to the pitch of the ball with their head over the knee? If anything, galli cricket teaches clearing the front foot out and heaving at the ball (a la A. Razzaq) because the only way to score in tape ball is to hit the ball hard, there is no concept of timing.

    So tape ball cricket should theoretically solve the OP's problem of low back lift and powerless shots.

    Tape ball is not the culprit and high back lift is not the solution....

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Umpire View Post
    zaid...I don't think playing galli cricket teaches playing in the V. Playing in the V requires head over the ball, and foot to the pitch of the ball. If neither of the happen, the ball will definitely go square (see the Michael Vaughn video posted earlier).

    How many galli cricket batsmen bring their feet to the pitch of the ball with their head over the knee? If anything, galli cricket teaches clearing the front foot out and heaving at the ball (a la A. Razzaq) because the only way to score in tape ball is to hit the ball hard, there is no concept of timing.

    So tape ball cricket should theoretically solve the OP's problem of low back lift and powerless shots.

    Tape ball is not the culprit and high back lift is not the solution....
    I disagree. I think most of our guys are a byproduct of gali cricket and its a misconception that it teaches you clearing the front leg and having a tonk at it. That happens in tapeball played in open spaces and not in the streets.

    You only have the v to play in and automatically guys develop this habit of getting to the pitch of the ball, playing with a straight bat, etc. Or at least those guys did who I used to play street cricket with back in the day. I still feel it is a better teacher than tapeball being played in a regular field.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    I disagree. I think most of our guys are a byproduct of gali cricket and its a misconception that it teaches you clearing the front leg and having a tonk at it. That happens in tapeball played in open spaces and not in the streets.

    You only have the v to play in and automatically guys develop this habit of getting to the pitch of the ball, playing with a straight bat, etc. Or at least those guys did who I used to play street cricket with back in the day. I still feel it is a better teacher than tapeball being played in a regular field.
    my friend, slogging shots down the ground in the V region is very different from "playing in the V".

  34. #34
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    if u know that y most play tapeball cricket

    then handout free real cricket equipment coz most can't afford it

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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalSami View Post
    if u know that y most play tapeball cricket

    then handout free real cricket equipment coz most can't afford it
    thats a good point .

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    I would like to commend you on the time spent on writing this post.

    Some good points although i might not agree.

    As Whatmore must have seen most of the Pakistani batsmen by know would be great to get his 2 cents.

    You can try to tweet the link to Julien fountain and he can pass it on to Whatmore.

    Lets see if he gives us his input!

    Here is the link to Julien's twitter page:

    http://twitter.com/#!/julienfountain

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaid65 View Post
    I have wrote a whole thread on the batting issues and highlight the tape ball the main culprit for the batting woes in Pakistani cricket.

    http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...d.php?t=150053
    I missed your thread but I agree with your analysis. Tape ball cricket is unfortunately a big reason for our batting woes. Plus, the advent of T 20 cricket which is hugely popular among the youth and Afridi being very popular especially among the youngsters, it's natural to expect them to ape their batting style to the likes of him and other sloggers. On subcontinental pitches our batsmen are still able to play some decent shots because they are so used to the conditions. They usually get exposed when they play in Australia or England. With poor technique it's hard to expect them to face any decent bowler, where all the bowler has to do is ball just outside off stump and wait for our batsmen to nick edges to slip fielders. No one technique is superior to another, but there are some basic fundamentals, some of which are mentioned in the OP and if we fail to adopt them, it's hard to imagine us doing anything major especially when touring England or Australia.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usman View Post

    A novice would read this thread and believe that you need a high back lift to be able to become a world class player.

    How about this one. Rahul Dravid has faced more deliveries in his career than any other cricketer that has ever existed. He has a low back lift. He is also considered one of the most technically sound batsmen to have ever played the game. If his technique was as fundamentally flawed as the OP makes out, well we need to re-write the history books.
    Like this?


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    Kind of depends which picture you get. Hey if younis khan has a 'half-hearted' lift then I wouldn't mind a few more youngsters like that with that test average.

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    Nice article bud.
    Indians usually dont play with tape ball,but I think that tape ball is still better than usual tennis ball.

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    Nice stuff mate. Excellent analysis.

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    Here is the latest Misbah batting.

    I think Whatmore has a deeper understanding than us
    Last edited by iZaman; 10th May 2012 at 12:26.

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    i am sure this novices bat is pointing towards 2nd and 3rd slip when he is making this hundred.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3IVdW4WZlw

    and this guy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82q-T...endscreen&NR=1

    seems that it depends on the shots you play and what the angle of the bat is at the point of impact with the ball.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    i am sure this novices bat is pointing towards 2nd and 3rd slip when he is making this hundred.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3IVdW4WZlw

    and this guy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82q-T...endscreen&NR=1

    seems that it depends on the shots you play and what the angle of the bat is at the point of impact with the ball.
    Sachin's bat is in that 1st slip range. This is acceptable. It's when you start moving even further where the issue lies.

    As for Viv, he wasn't known for his technique. He had his own way of batting and he excelled at it.


    May the Hawks Fly Forever. Lightning Hawks CC -- Team Thread.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVhFo81ndEo
    ok what about this guy. i could go on and on, but i guess the basic point regarding back lift is that while it is important to bring it down in the almost vertical arc its hard to show that in video stills like the op has and when seen in normal time anybodys technique can look a little suspect on video. So its hard to really pinpoint form the pak players photos that at what point the stills are captured. i think its a mute point.

    the other points that the op makes about tape ball cricket, are mind boggling also. yes it may or may not improve batting but i have heard wasim akram mention many times that its good for bowler developing a fast arm. the mentality issue is a strange one too, the run machines of yester year that he refers to all played county cricket (except miandad i think) so were able to hone their skills in UK where they would have to play straight and develop good temperament. throwing young undercooked rookies into international cricket doesnt help anybody anymore and it just seems better to let them play a few seasons of domestic cricket to iron out deficiencies.

  46. #46
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    Anyone who has been coached at any level would know that OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

    Besides, Bradman's backlift wasn't front on either. It was very angled.

    There are pros and cons with both high backlift and low backlift. Remember the famous video of Lara being floored by Waqar? His high backlift was the culprit.

    Younis averages higher than Sehwag. OP is just an attempt to one-up Indian batsmen vs Pak batsmen disguised as objective analysis.

    I've always held the view, and have said it before, that OP is an Indian. Maybe people need to look at his past posts to see it for themselves.

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    Very interesting. Saeed Anwar and Inzamam-ul-Haq were two other batsmen who had the "correct" backlift, according to the OP, and those guys could defend and play the big shots. I couldn't find photos of their backlift but if you watch YT videos of them you will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPosheeda View Post
    Anyone who has been coached at any level would know that OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

    Besides, Bradman's backlift wasn't front on either. It was very angled.

    There are pros and cons with both high backlift and low backlift. Remember the famous video of Lara being floored by Waqar? His high backlift was the culprit.

    Younis averages higher than Sehwag. OP is just an attempt to one-up Indian batsmen vs Pak batsmen disguised as objective analysis.

    I've always held the view, and have said it before, that OP is an Indian. Maybe people need to look at his past posts to see it for themselves.
    wow, your post made me chuckle a little. Do you think he has undone the fabric of pakistani society by pointing out dinky batting technique? I dont think it matters that he is indian, good luck to him where ever he is from. But given that he has so dilligently pursued a point seems that either he is very committed to the cause of back lifts or just has too much time on his hands. But i seriously doubt he is an agent of Raw.

    More to the point lots of players have evolved to have their own particular techniques and some of them are truly incredible yet unorthodox, Inzi and laxman are two that spring to mind. i think if you watch some you tube videos i cant find one so far where i can see the bat coming down vertically and i have especially looked at the classic techniques of SRT and Dravid. the pictures of ponting, sehwag etc above show them in a very side on pose where it would be almost bizzare if the bat wasnt coming down straight but one pic isnt necessarily indicative of their overall technique. i think you tube clips give a better indication and completely disprove his very entertaining and insightful though slightly flawed analysis.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abid Z View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVhFo81ndEo
    ok what about this guy. i could go on and on, but i guess the basic point regarding back lift is that while it is important to bring it down in the almost vertical arc its hard to show that in video stills like the op has and when seen in normal time anybodys technique can look a little suspect on video. So its hard to really pinpoint form the pak players photos that at what point the stills are captured. i think its a mute point.

    the other points that the op makes about tape ball cricket, are mind boggling also. yes it may or may not improve batting but i have heard wasim akram mention many times that its good for bowler developing a fast arm. the mentality issue is a strange one too, the run machines of yester year that he refers to all played county cricket (except miandad i think) so were able to hone their skills in UK where they would have to play straight and develop good temperament. throwing young undercooked rookies into international cricket doesnt help anybody anymore and it just seems better to let them play a few seasons of domestic cricket to iron out deficiencies.
    That is Dravid in the nets. Here is his real game innings, look how straight the bat is. In the nets (at an academy), you can be a little lazy with your technique. He still looks proper, but it's only fair to consider his real 'in game' technique.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6en6J2H9Des

    Agree with you on the stills in the OP. Those could be taken at any point in the batsman's follow through. Although, the premise of his opinion was not wrong.

    The straight bat lift (from straight to 1st slipish) is the "technically correct" way of doing things. It's not the only way, but it's the way players are taught to play by coaches. There will always be outliers.

    As for the other bits in the OP, I agree those were questionable or shall I say arguable.
    Last edited by kingusama92; 24th May 2012 at 09:42.


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  50. #50
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    ok i agree. The dravid clip is a treat to watch. i was gonna try to trip you up by throwing in a really cheap shot, Chanderpaul http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn8c_2w_5Ms but when i saw the youtube vid i realised that he does a load of crouching and shuffling but at the point of bringing the bat down his line is perfect. So perhaps it also could be the case with the very pakistan players that the op started off with, eg younis
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkRvoZeMt6g
    seems ok to me.

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    Backlift is overrated.

    As long as your bat comes down through the hitting zone straight and goes out straight in the follow through, all is good. You can pick up your bat pointing at Lahore as long as you hit with a full face, you OK.

    Batting is about balance.
    Last edited by spitfire64; 24th May 2012 at 10:35.

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    Well since we're talking about Backlifts and such, I find this a really interesting series to watch...
    Cricket: The Bob Woolmer Way - Batting
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-soO...feature=relmfu

  53. #53
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    Very good observations. At the same time I feel every batsman has his limitations and no technique is perfect. One might be better than the other but they all have their flaws. As a batsman the most important thing is that u manage to minimise ur flaws as much as possible. One thing, however that is true is the fact that Pakistan as highlighted by the lower back lifts mean that we have batsman who are more grinders rather than stroke makers which has been the problem when it comes to strike rates with Pakistani batsmen.


    "Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they prosper and die in the hands of politicians."-Iqbal

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    That's been the main problem in pakistani cricket, too much coaching

    Let the boys play with their natural flair and instincts


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  55. #55
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    BBC confirming this lack of Backlift in case of Ian Bell and his failure

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/31652737

  56. #56
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    Obviously Pakistani batsmen are so bad, based upon the OP, it's must be a miracle (or fixed!) that Pakistan ever wins any matches any more.


    ‚ÄúIn individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule‚ÄĚ

  57. #57
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    I'm glad when Dav left the job as the coach even though we were going to get a worse one in Waqar Younis

    Reason why I wanted Dav to go is because I didn't want him to suffer a heart attack from the Pakistani players, looked like he was going to give out each time the camera went on him... obviously most of the times it was when we were 80-1 and end up 120-5

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    You do know that temperament can't be taught? It can be worked on but not taught.

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    Had noticed my own error in stance with my back lift going over leg stump making it hard to score through the leg side (but a killer cover drive ) so was searching on Google and came upon this thread.

    Very nice analysis and effort, lol at the Hafeez one.

    Informative and hopefully now I'll fix my issue.
    Last edited by Suleiman; 5th April 2016 at 08:37.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suleiman View Post
    Had noticed my own error in stance with my back lift going over leg stump making it hard to score through the leg side (but a killer cover drive ) so was searching on Google and came upon this thread.

    Very nice analysis and effort, lol at the Hafeez one.

    Informative and hopefully now I'll fix my issue.
    Over leg stump? What guard were you taking?

  61. #61
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    Didn't read the whole thing but good analysis from OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChachaCricket View Post
    Over leg stump? What guard were you taking?
    middle stump guard lol.

    nothing major, my stance has been fine past few years just recently I've been playing too much gully cricket and the offside is much closer, so free boundaries, and so my bat over some time hovered above middle to leg.

    But now that I'm going back to club cricket, it was becoming a problem. But I've looked around and done some shadow practice, will take time, but should be fine.

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    **** you have stated backlift as your judgement of players? Making test centuries is the hardest century of all format if these players had these backlift problems then i doubt they could've scored even 10 runs #Booooooooo

    "People will stare make it worth there while"
    1day ppl will start staring PCT again.


    May your choices reflect your hope not your fears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdeelSabih View Post
    Even Sir W. G. Grace

    lol what a photo. Looks like a wizard batting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zain Zaidi View Post
    **** you have stated backlift as your judgement of players? Making test centuries is the hardest century of all format if these players had these backlift problems then i doubt they could've scored even 10 runs #Booooooooo

    "People will stare make it worth there while"
    1day ppl will start staring PCT again.
    A high backlift allows for larger range of motion therefore greater power behind the ball. You're using gravity to your advantage.

    It is essential for strokeplay because it keeps the bat's trajectory downwards at point of connection which helps the ball stay on the ground.

    You're in position to play the rising ball better as you don't have to lift your bat. It allows you to keep the ball down when executing the pull shot and gives you an extra fraction of a second. Whereas in Misbah, Younis and Azhar's case they first have to lift their bat and then pull, losing enough time for the ball to hurry on to them which is why they're such poor pullers of the ball.

    When you stride forward to drive the ball, a high backlift helps the body stay balanced.

    There are many more advantages but that's enough for now.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChachaCricket View Post
    Over leg stump? What guard were you taking?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PakPosheeda View Post
    Anyone who has been coached at any level would know that OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

    Besides, Bradman's backlift wasn't front on either. It was very angled.

    There are pros and cons with both high backlift and low backlift. Remember the famous video of Lara being floored by Waqar? His high backlift was the culprit.

    Younis averages higher than Sehwag. OP is just an attempt to one-up Indian batsmen vs Pak batsmen disguised as objective analysis.

    I've always held the view, and have said it before, that OP is an Indian. Maybe people need to look at his past posts to see it for themselves.
    Yup yup yup


    May your choices reflect your hope not your fears.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zain Zaidi View Post
    Yup yup yup
    But yeah remove the part you say op is Indian

    "People will stare make it worth there while"
    1day ppl will start staring PCT again.


    May your choices reflect your hope not your fears.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChachaCricket View Post
    A high backlift allows for larger range of motion therefore greater power behind the ball. You're using gravity to your advantage.

    It is essential for strokeplay because it keeps the bat's trajectory downwards at point of connection which helps the ball stay on the ground.

    You're in position to play the rising ball better as you don't have to lift your bat. It allows you to keep the ball down when executing the pull shot and gives you an extra fraction of a second. Whereas in Misbah, Younis and Azhar's case they first have to lift their bat and then pull, losing enough time for the ball to hurry on to them which is why they're such poor pullers of the ball.

    When you stride forward to drive the ball, a high backlift helps the body stay balanced.

    There are many more advantages but that's enough for now.
    I dont really think after a player developes his technique ppl come and say your bat lift isnot good correct it would he go again at his domestic coach who taught him the technique

    When a player comes after 2,3 years of domestic ragraa no one can correct his technique in a mere months a coach can correct this backlift issue if our players have this

    "People will stare make it worth there while"
    1day ppl will start staring PCT again.


    May your choices reflect your hope not your fears.

  70. #70
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    Mohsin Khan:



    Probably a factor with overall technique as to how he walked out of Melbourne and Adelaide with a 149 and 153 respectively.

  71. #71
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    Backlift is checked when the bowler is releasing the ball not when the batsman has already decided what shot to play.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by sachin__ View Post
    Bat lift thing is perfect...Our coaches used to insist on this thing in coaching camps when we kids.
    YES !!!

    This is one of the BASIC reasons why the quality of your Indian batting is good in school and domestic level.
    There is a difference in our batting culture. There is a difference in the acumen and understanding of batting technique.

    Our kids simply don't see it in their seniors so they never learn it.

    And to make things worse, our modern day domestic tape ball cricket is a total hell to be able to groom any solid test level batsman who has a solid defense and who can play drives into the gaps and who can build a long innings or be able to play spin bowling.

    Our kids see the local "heroes" are Zaheer Kalia and Bantu Bhai and Karnal Zahid and Akbar Poli and whatnot. And this how all they know how to base their batting model on.

    There is only one shot, and that is a lapaaru tulla for six in our domestic tape ball cricket.

    What do you expect from our test level batsmen who learn playing cricket like this?


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