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  1. #241
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    The Scottish govt having another referendum until it gets the answer it wants. As a side note, Maybe our Ind friends can see how a proper democracy behaves.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Won't Theresa May just tell Nicky Sturgeon to bog off?
    May knows SNP will never win a independence referendum, so does Sturgeon.

    The best argument the SNP had was in 2014 when oil was $100 and kept rising, the North Sea contributed £7 bill to the exchequer. Alex Salmond's argument was when this revenue becomes their own, Scotland will have a strong viable economy.

    Despite this sound argument SNP were defeated.

    Today oil is $50 a barrel and the North sea is dying a slow death. When Ruth Davidson grilled SNP in the Scottish parliament and asked her to make an economic case they just sat quietly!

    UK can survive without Europe, Scotland cannot survive without the UK. Its Westminister's largesse that keeps the Scottish economy afloat today.

    But the SNP are nothing without the referendum, they were the biggest winners in the last one. The rally call for all Scots result in votes for the SNP but none for the independence referendum.

  3. #243
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    the sooner this whining is put to bed the better. its interesting that details are so sparse on the economic argument, why isn't more made of this? and its all good and well to talk up the benefits of the union, no doubt, and many are undeniable - but why isn't the other side of the coin spoken about? the uk was made to pay a huge membership fee, do the Scotts not think they will have to pay, and if so, where are they going to get the money for it from?

    "One of the target metrics the EU enforces on its members is for each state to aim for a budget deficit of no more than 3pc of GDP.

    Scotland is a terrible performer in this regard, spending £1,200 a head more than the rest of the UK and receiving £400 per head less.

    The Scottish government's latest annual estimate puts the country's deficit at £15bn or 9.5pc of GDP. This would be comfortably the worst score for any EU member state.

    Scotland may have to prove it can reduce this deficit before EU membership becomes a possibility and this would take time."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...endence-would/

    I think this is all political posturing which is grossly irresponsible at a time when negotiations are about to start - the decision is already made to exit, and for the union, attempting to sabotage the effort to deal the best hand for the uk now is grossly negligent.

  4. #244
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    An independent Scotland might try for EFTA membership.

    It is horrible to think of a hard border going up between England and Scotland.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    the sooner this whining is put to bed the better. its interesting that details are so sparse on the economic argument, why isn't more made of this? and its all good and well to talk up the benefits of the union, no doubt, and many are undeniable - but why isn't the other side of the coin spoken about? the uk was made to pay a huge membership fee, do the Scotts not think they will have to pay, and if so, where are they going to get the money for it from?

    "One of the target metrics the EU enforces on its members is for each state to aim for a budget deficit of no more than 3pc of GDP.

    Scotland is a terrible performer in this regard, spending £1,200 a head more than the rest of the UK and receiving £400 per head less.

    The Scottish government's latest annual estimate puts the country's deficit at £15bn or 9.5pc of GDP. This would be comfortably the worst score for any EU member state.

    Scotland may have to prove it can reduce this deficit before EU membership becomes a possibility and this would take time."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...endence-would/

    I think this is all political posturing which is grossly irresponsible at a time when negotiations are about to start - the decision is already made to exit, and for the union, attempting to sabotage the effort to deal the best hand for the uk now is grossly negligent.
    Fully agree.

    Sturgeon is on a hiding to nothing with this, and sad to see the BBC taking an anti-unionist stance with their headlines today.

  6. #246
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    I've always been fascinated by how Salmon(d) was replaced by Sturgeon. There's a nautical theme in the making. I wonder if the fish and chips vendors in Scotland have tried using this as a marketing ploy?


    Silver-tongued seraphim circling the spire...
    Gather in the gallery in their best attire...

  7. #247
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    How ironic. Brexiteers, by claiming that they want the UK to decide it's own destiny and not be ruled from Brussels, won by 52% to 48%, but now they say that 4% winning margin gives them carte blanche to do whatever they want.

    The Scots, in the last independence referendum, were told they must vote to reject independence in order to remain in the EU.

    But now they are told they have to leave the EU even though they voted 63% to Remain, and only 37% to Leave. And "No" they cannot have another referendum for Scotland to decide it's own destiny and not be ruled from London.

    Double standards me thinks.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  8. #248
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    With the Brexit thing now is not the time for another referendum. It is like being insensitive to an ill person who needs your support. Perhaps later it can be considered again.


    PP's own self proclaimed sharpshooter and defender of Islam and Pakistan.

  9. #249
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    Scotland voted 55-45 to Stay a part of the UK, not even that long ago, and if I remember correctly, regionally it was only Glasgow that saw a majority vote for Leave in the whole bloody country. Every other region was majority Stay.

    This was in 2014, so it hardly goes back to a referendum in the 1970s like the EU did.

    It's largely a non-story; Sturgeon is trying to justify her own salary and her own party's continued existence. Huge example of a fad party.

    Very sad that dedicated public servants such as Danny Alexander and Charles Kennedy (who died from alcoholism a few months later) got kicked out of government in favour of useless SNP socialist runts who probably don't even turn up to parliament and / or stand up to speak most of the time.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Scotland voted 55-45 to Stay a part of the UK, not even that long ago, and if I remember correctly, regionally it was only Glasgow that saw a majority vote for Leave in the whole bloody country. Every other region was majority Stay.

    This was in 2014, so it hardly goes back to a referendum in the 1970s like the EU did.

    It's largely a non-story; Sturgeon is trying to justify her own salary and her own party's continued existence. Huge example of a fad party.

    Very sad that dedicated public servants such as Danny Alexander and Charles Kennedy (who died from alcoholism a few months later) got kicked out of government in favour of useless SNP socialist runts who probably don't even turn up to parliament and / or stand up to speak most of the time.
    Terrible post. The SNPs manifesto before the 2016 elections said that they would push for another referendum if there was a significant change in scotlands circumstances such as scotland being FORCED TO LEAVE THE EU AGAINST ITS WILL. This led to the SNP getting the most votes its ever had in its history.

    The EU referendum then happened and what was the outcome? The outcome was that scotland was going to be dragged out of the EU despite EVERY AREA OF SCOTLAND voting to stay (check the vote map if you dont believe me).

    Nicola is only doing what the scottish people voted for her to do

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostalgic View Post
    I've always been fascinated by how Salmon(d) was replaced by Sturgeon. There's a nautical theme in the making. I wonder if the fish and chips vendors in Scotland have tried using this as a marketing ploy?
    Something is definitely fishy


    Inzi is the best selector in the world

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syed1 View Post
    Something is definitely fishy
    And just when it looked like the independence movement was beginning to Flounder.


    Silver-tongued seraphim circling the spire...
    Gather in the gallery in their best attire...

  13. #253
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    So, what's going to happen to Scotland if they somehow manage to get a 2nd referendum approved and then if they somehow manage to vote majority Leave - they are going to re-enter the EU? With what money? There is a large entry fee, as well as a significant ongoing membership fee.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    It's largely a non-story; Sturgeon is trying to justify her own salary and her own party's continued existence. Huge example of a fad party.
    I think the difference between the SNP and UKIP is that the former have the intellectual competence to govern. A lot of their supporters are for British union.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Scotland voted 55-45 to Stay a part of the UK, not even that long ago, and if I remember correctly, regionally it was only Glasgow that saw a majority vote for Leave in the whole bloody country. Every other region was majority Stay.

    This was in 2014, so it hardly goes back to a referendum in the 1970s like the EU did.

    It's largely a non-story; Sturgeon is trying to justify her own salary and her own party's continued existence. Huge example of a fad party.

    Very sad that dedicated public servants such as Danny Alexander and Charles Kennedy (who died from alcoholism a few months later) got kicked out of government in favour of useless SNP socialist runts who probably don't even turn up to parliament and / or stand up to speak most of the time.
    To be precise, compare the two referenda:

    Scotland to remain in the UK: 55%
    Scotland to remain in the EU: 62%

    The bottom line is that more Scots want to be in the EU than the UK.

    Indeed, a substantial part of the "No" vote in the independence referendum was because Alastair Darling's "No" campaign told Scots that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote against independence. We now know the opposite to be true.

    It's impossible to tease out whether the number of "No" voters who prioritise EU membership ahead of staying in the UK would outnumber the number of "Yes" voter who prioritise independence ahead of EU membership!

    But what everybody agrees is that in the Under-30's there is a ticking timebomb in favour of independence.

    Scottish independence is inevitable. It may well not happen in 2019, but this is a longer game, and it will happen no later than 2030.

    I'm in an unusual situation. I think Brexit may be good for England, but is bad for Scotland and Wales, which would be better off independent but in the EU, and Northern Ireland, which would be better in a united Ireland in the EU.

    But I also still believe that within 20 years of Scottish independence, Northern England will secede to join Scotland rather than remain under eternal Conservative rule in England.

    I can't see any way in which Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Leeds and Sheffield would prefer endless Conservative rule and northern poverty (and remember, I AM a Conservative) to progressive socialism in a new union with Scotland.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    I think the difference between the SNP and UKIP is that the former have the intellectual competence to govern. A lot of their supporters are for British union.
    But @Robert, I am not sure how British union benefits Scotland.

    I'm aware that under the Barnett Formula they get a relatively generous share of public expenditure. But it is an elevated share from a much lower amount of revenue raised in England than 90%+ of Scots would support, as even Scottish Conservatives believe that the UK income tax rates are far too low to fund a modern Northern European society.

    (And I happen to agree with my fellow Conservatives from Scotland on that count. The tax rate is far too low in the UK, especially for the people who vote for our side. Margaret Thatcher continues to haunt us from beyond the grave, with her endless election bribes, as poor Philip Hammond has just discovered as he is expected to deliver a modern society with inadequate revenue).

    I have family in Scotland, who are ardent unionists. But I disagree with them: I think that Scotland would have been best off seceding 35 years ago, but better late than never.

    I personally would prefer Scotland in the union, because endless one party rule is never a good thing, even when it's my party.

    But I am certain that Scotland would be best off as another Ireland or Belgium or Slovenia, a small country in the EU.

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    But I am certain that Scotland would be best off as another Ireland or Belgium or Slovenia, a small country in the EU.
    As @James points out, the EU are unlikely to let them in due to debts.

  18. #258
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    I am from Northern England and I do not have any desire to join Scotland in a separate nation, and I have never heard of anyone around me even mention this either let alone express a desire for it. Bogus idea.

    The way people go on about Northern England it is like it is a third world country LOL, many parts of Yorkshire and Manchester have been getting loads of investment for a while now. Even the epicentre of so-called disconnection in Westminster is only 2 and a half hours down the M1, and I have been to London many times and enjoyed it.

    Just a load of much ado about nothing from people who don't live here, and a bit of ado about nothing from moaning northerners with ingrained victim mentalities, and to be fair there are some of these.
    Last edited by James; 18th March 2017 at 10:20.

  19. #259
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    Good speech from Gordon Brown this morning. Totally destroyed the SNP's nonexistent economic case for independence.

    Britain as a country remains one of the most centralised in the Western world. I hope any agenda to further devolve powers away from London to Holyrood is coupled with more autonomy for the English regions.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    As @James points out, the EU are unlikely to let them in due to debts.
    I think more to the point, Spain is terrified of Catalonia and the Basque Country seceding, and will do nothing to encourage secessionism.

    @James
    Hardly any of us northerners have had occasion to wonder whether we feel closer to people from Edinburgh or Exeter. It's never been a question.

    But I'm certain that 50 years of Northern European style centre-left government would appeal more than endless Tory austerity.

    The SNP is actually pretty competent.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Good speech from Gordon Brown this morning. Totally destroyed the SNP's nonexistent economic case for independence.

    Britain as a country remains one of the most centralised in the Western world. I hope any agenda to further devolve powers away from London to Holyrood is coupled with more autonomy for the English regions.
    I agree with every word, but economic arguments will not prevail.

    This will ultimately be lost by a combination of:

    1) Perceived London Tory arrogance,
    2) Petty nationalism, stoked by we English forcing them out of the EU against their wishes,
    3) Anger at imposed austerity,
    4) New young voters who want Scottish independence and continued EU membership by a huge majority.

    Our economic arguments against independence may be right, but they won't prevail.

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Scotland voted 55-45 to Stay a part of the UK, not even that long ago, and if I remember correctly, regionally it was only Glasgow that saw a majority vote for Leave in the whole bloody country. Every other region was majority Stay..
    After being promised that staying in the Union was the only way Scotland could remain in the EU.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Our economic arguments against independence may be right, but they won't prevail.
    Just as the arguments against leaving the EU were correct (and will be seen to be correct once the UK has left the EU), but they didn't prevail.

    "What's good for the goose is good for the gander"


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  24. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I am from Northern England and I do not have any desire to join Scotland in a separate nation, and I have never heard of anyone around me even mention this either let alone express a desire for it. Bogus idea.

    The way people go on about Northern England it is like it is a third world country LOL, many parts of Yorkshire and Manchester have been getting loads of investment for a while now. Even the epicentre of so-called disconnection in Westminster is only 2 and a half hours down the M1, and I have been to London many times and enjoyed it.

    Just a load of much ado about nothing from people who don't live here, and a bit of ado about nothing from moaning northerners with ingrained victim mentalities, and to be fair there are some of these.
    Unless Ireland and the UK can find some sort of formulae that is acceptable to the EU, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland will revert back to the situation prior to the Good Friday Agreement and end up having a fully fledged border again.

    And if that happens, it won't be long before the question of a unified Ireland comes to the fore again, especially with the carrot of the Northern Irish being part of the EU again with border and custom controls.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Unless Ireland and the UK can find some sort of formulae that is acceptable to the EU, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland will revert back to the situation prior to the Good Friday Agreement and end up having a fully fledged border again.

    And if that happens, it won't be long before the question of a unified Ireland comes to the fore again, especially with the carrot of the Northern Irish being part of the EU again with border and custom controls.
    Agree that we will see a united Ireland again at some point. England Wales and Scotland will stick together I believe.

  26. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Good speech from Gordon Brown this morning. Totally destroyed the SNP's nonexistent economic case for independence.

    Britain as a country remains one of the most centralised in the Western world. I hope any agenda to further devolve powers away from London to Holyrood is coupled with more autonomy for the English regions.
    Concur. As an immigrant to the Duchy of Cornwall, I support a Cornish Assembly too.

  27. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markhor View Post
    Good speech from Gordon Brown this morning. Totally destroyed the SNP's nonexistent economic case for independence.

    Britain as a country remains one of the most centralised in the Western world. I hope any agenda to further devolve powers away from London to Holyrood is coupled with more autonomy for the English regions.
    No offence - I love your posts - but I think that you, @James and @Robert should probably focus less on the economic and historic facts and more on how events are likely to play out in this Trumpian / Brexit world.

    1. The SNP First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has flagged a referendum that it arguably would lose anyway. Nobody seems to grasp that she was setting a trap for Theresa May.
    2. Theresa May has risen to the bait, and refused a referendum prior to Brexit.
    3. There will be no Scottish Independence referendum prior to Brexit.
    4. Scotland will therefore be forced out of the EU against its will.

    The beauty of Sturgeon's trap is that from that point on it does not matter whether or not May has already concluded a Free Trade Agreement with the EU (which of course she will not have). The reality is that the UK economy will be buffeted in the short-term by reduced access to the EU market and will almost certainly respond by heading towards a low-tax, low-service levels, low-wage economy. Which may work in the longer-term, but would lead to a US-style society in which the haves get richer and the have-nots get poorer - which of course is a social model that is anathema to Scots of every political allegiance.

    But none of that actually matters. The economic and social wash-up becomes irrelevant because of the four steps that I listed above.

    Because forever more, the SNP and Scottish Greens will be able to say that the Wicked English Dragged Us Out of the EU Against Our Wills, And Refused To Let Us Have A Referendum Until It Was Too Late.

    We English can be beaten with that stick indefinitely. And the masterstroke for Sturgeon is that while a UK Labour government could be perceived as seeking to develop Scotland socially, in reality it is going to be Conservative Government in place until at least 2024. Which means austerity, and limited revenue to spend on hospitals, schools and social security.

    Which is why I think Sturgeon HAS won. She set a trap, and Theresa May blundered into it.

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I am from Northern England and I do not have any desire to join Scotland in a separate nation, and I have never heard of anyone around me even mention this either let alone express a desire for it. Bogus idea.

    The way people go on about Northern England it is like it is a third world country LOL, many parts of Yorkshire and Manchester have been getting loads of investment for a while now. Even the epicentre of so-called disconnection in Westminster is only 2 and a half hours down the M1, and I have been to London many times and enjoyed it.
    You obviously are not familiar with "Take Us With You Scotland" !

    Name:  Take Us With You.jpg
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    I am from Manchester, or to be precise, the Home Counties-style outer suburbs in Cheshire.

    But the reason why I live in Australia is because northern England IS practically a Third World country. My mother grew up in Birstall, and the Jo Cox ceremony took place at the bus stop where she used to take the school bus. But West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester are almost entirely Third World places - there is barely anywhere in Australia or New Zealand as poor as Stretford or Birstall or Dewsbury, let alone Hulme or Toxteth.

    As I wrote earlier in this thread, we are becoming Alabama or Arkansas - Third World outposts in a developed nation.

    Northern England lost its industrial base, for whatever reasons, three decades ago. A large part of society lives in abject poverty - think of the abduction of Shannon Matthews, and the recent dramatisation featuring Sheridan Smith and Siobhan Finneran.

    The people of Scotland believe in mainstream European social democratic government - with taxes at least double and often triple US levels and with services commensurate to that model, with comprehensive free healthcare and free university education.

    You are right that hardly anybody in northern England wakes up and thinks "I want to be ruled from Edinburgh instead of London".

    But I put it to you that with a few tiny exceptions in Cheshire, Harrogate or the Wirral, the vast majority of people in Northern England share those political values with the Scots, and would choose a high-tax, highly-regulated, free-at-the point-of-delivery services model to a low tax, user-pays model.

    People in southern and central England prefer, or at least accept, the lower-tax user-pays model.

    People in northern England don't, and never will. And devolution within England can only lead to one destination - union with Scotland and separation from southeast England.

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    No offence - I love your posts - but I think that you, @James and @Robert should probably focus less on the economic and historic facts and more on how events are likely to play out in this Trumpian / Brexit world.

    1. The SNP First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has flagged a referendum that it arguably would lose anyway. Nobody seems to grasp that she was setting a trap for Theresa May.
    2. Theresa May has risen to the bait, and refused a referendum prior to Brexit.
    3. There will be no Scottish Independence referendum prior to Brexit.
    4. Scotland will therefore be forced out of the EU against its will.

    The beauty of Sturgeon's trap is that from that point on it does not matter whether or not May has already concluded a Free Trade Agreement with the EU (which of course she will not have). The reality is that the UK economy will be buffeted in the short-term by reduced access to the EU market and will almost certainly respond by heading towards a low-tax, low-service levels, low-wage economy. Which may work in the longer-term, but would lead to a US-style society in which the haves get richer and the have-nots get poorer - which of course is a social model that is anathema to Scots of every political allegiance.

    But none of that actually matters. The economic and social wash-up becomes irrelevant because of the four steps that I listed above.

    Because forever more, the SNP and Scottish Greens will be able to say that the Wicked English Dragged Us Out of the EU Against Our Wills, And Refused To Let Us Have A Referendum Until It Was Too Late.

    We English can be beaten with that stick indefinitely. And the masterstroke for Sturgeon is that while a UK Labour government could be perceived as seeking to develop Scotland socially, in reality it is going to be Conservative Government in place until at least 2024. Which means austerity, and limited revenue to spend on hospitals, schools and social security.

    Which is why I think Sturgeon HAS won. She set a trap, and Theresa May blundered into it.
    I think you have this about right @Junaids. The spectre of a low-tax, low-service UK fills me with horror.

    But the independent Scots still have nowhere to go, unless they adopt the Norway model. They are smarter than the English, on the whole, less likely to fall for emotional populist arguments.

  30. #270
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    If a secession happened, I would move to the south of England.

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    It's interesting to note that the SNP's vote-share has gone from 50% in the 2015 general election to 46.5% in the 2016 holyrood election to 32% in the recent council elections.

    Next month is going to be very interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if the SNP's vote-share is in the low 40s/high30s. Sure that's enough to win lots of seats under the FPTP system but what about their dream of winning an independence referendum?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-39846268

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    The Tories will pick up a few more Scottish seats this time in my view. The SNP will get all of the rest. Scottish politics is now all about Independence v Unionism, represented by the Nationalists and the Conservatives - the Lib Dems and Labour are now irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    It's interesting to note that the SNP's vote-share has gone from 50% in the 2015 general election to 46.5% in the 2016 holyrood election to 32% in the recent council elections.

    Next month is going to be very interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if the SNP's vote-share is in the low 40s/high30s. Sure that's enough to win lots of seats under the FPTP system but what about their dream of winning an independence referendum?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-39846268
    I'm guessing in the general election, by enlarge, the Scots who want to stay in EU will vote for SNP and the Scots who want to leave will vote for the Tories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    The Tories will pick up a few more Scottish seats this time in my view. The SNP will get all of the rest. Scottish politics is now all about Independence v Unionism, represented by the Nationalists and the Conservatives - the Lib Dems and Labour are now irrelevant.
    Yup spot on.

    Majority of voters in Scotland can be put into two groups:

    1) Want independence - aka. SNP voters
    2) Want to leave EU - aka. Conservative voters

    There are some who want both, however, independence usually trumps Brexit for most Scots so their vote goes for SNP.

    Their are some who don't want either - however, again, being independent but in the EU usually is seen as the lesser of the two evils, compared to being with the UK but not in the EU - so again I would say SNP will pick up these votes.

    Conservatives may win a few seats from SNP, however, I still expect SNP to have an overwhelming majority.

    However, I ain't going to lie - I've got very limited knowledge about politics and this is based on just chatting to the 'average Joe' on the street. Not any hardcore stats, facts, polls etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Unless Ireland and the UK can find some sort of formulae that is acceptable to the EU, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland will revert back to the situation prior to the Good Friday Agreement and end up having a fully fledged border again.

    And if that happens, it won't be long before the question of a unified Ireland comes to the fore again, especially with the carrot of the Northern Irish being part of the EU again with border and custom controls.
    Yup.

    Its pretty ironic that the Unionist parties up north have successfully campaigned for a Brexit which has done nothing but make NI poorer and more likely to secede.


    See You Space Cowboy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TalhaSyed View Post
    Yup spot on.

    Majority of voters in Scotland can be put into two groups:

    1) Want independence - aka. SNP voters
    2) Want to leave EU - aka. Conservative voters

    There are some who want both, however, independence usually trumps Brexit for most Scots so their vote goes for SNP.

    Their are some who don't want either - however, again, being independent but in the EU usually is seen as the lesser of the two evils, compared to being with the UK but not in the EU - so again I would say SNP will pick up these votes.

    Conservatives may win a few seats from SNP, however, I still expect SNP to have an overwhelming majority.

    However, I ain't going to lie - I've got very limited knowledge about politics and this is based on just chatting to the 'average Joe' on the street. Not any hardcore stats, facts, polls etc.
    You had your chance in 2014 mate Braveheart would be turning in his four graves


    See You Space Cowboy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donal Cozzie View Post
    You had your chance in 2014 mate Braveheart would be turning in his four graves
    Independence will be ours sooner or later and we will take Northern England with us

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    What a result in Scotland last week, The SNP's share of the vote went from 50% in 2015 to 37% on Thursday whereas the Unionist parties made a bit of a comeback - Tory (29%), Labour (27%) and Lib Dem (7%).

    Never thought I'd live to see the day when the Tories poll as high as 29% in Scotland.

    Back to the drawing board for Sturgeon and her party..

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