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Thread: Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by 161 View Post
    If the court acquits Asif then it will be bad news for Pakistan cricket.

    It means you can fix all you want without the threat of getting banned even if caught red handed like Asif was.

    Why some of you dopes here don't realize this I cannot comprehend.
    Was Asif caught redhanded? Do you have anything to support your statement that he was caught redhanded in the act.


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  2. #82
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    ^^^^

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    Was Asif caught redhanded? Do you have anything to support your statement that he was caught redhanded in the act.
    Well I think it's whether you beleive his story or the NoW story.

    Basically a guy predicted that he would bowl a no-ball when he did (he aslo made other predictions that didn't come true) - in this scenario Asif and Butt would be guilty (in the mind of fans/viewers) for planning the no ball for money.

    Asif excuse was that he was told to bowl and effort ball by the captain on that particular delivery is also supported by the bowling speeds in that over apparently and also by the fact Butt has a word with him before the delivery if I remember correctly). In this scenario Butt could still be guilty - as their is other evidence against him, but Asif could be innocent, because he was just bowling an effort ball and we have seen recently with the Karachi Express, it can lead to quite a big no-ball.

    IMO, Asif is guilty as they come. But in a court of law I don't think he should have been found guilty based on what evidence there was.

    Initially I was aginst any of the trio representing Pakistan. But after considering how other 'cheats/fixers/money sellouts' or at the very least dodgy in the past have been given legend status and are now in some respectable positions in IPL or in International team setups. Then why not give them a chance, it's not like some of our legends are squeeky clean.

  4. #84
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    The defence of Asif tends to be 'there was a potential lack of evidence' rather than any genuine belief that he isn't a cheat.

    It's painful to watch. I think even his supporters kind of know the truth.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    It's painful to watch. I think even his supporters kind of know the truth.
    It's that kind of thinking that lead an ICC tribunal to follow their instincts rather than whatever proofs they had in front of them.

    If you go back to the first post of this page, you'll see James advocating about ''Evidences'' needed to prove Junaids's post wrong but, at the same time, here we should trust your and jury's intuitions?

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmuhammad63 View Post
    Fingers crossed mates the decision is expecting to come out next week and InshAllah It will be in favor of Mohammad Asif. I really want him to come back and make our bowling attack as strong as it was in when he was in the team. Please everyone prayer for decision to go in his favor.
    No wonder Pakistan is in so much **** when people are praying for the return of a fixer.


    "Give me the cold steel of the European Cup over a warm smile any day." L6 Red

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by justarslan View Post
    No wonder Pakistan is in so much **** when people are praying for the return of a fixer.
    not a fixer if the court finds no evidence


    Passion Has A Funny Way Of Trumping Logic

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    Its been more than 4 weeks now, any news?

  9. #89
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    Why do people say there's no evidence? Maz said he would bowl the no-ball on a specific delivery and he clearly did so. Doesn't look great.

  10. #90
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    Re: Count Down begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    BTW, for people equating him with Samuels. Samuels did the deed, quietly served his punishment and returned with a bang scoring runs and leading his team to cup glory. Asif, Amir and Butt all moaned about being screwed over and instead of accepting their horrible mistake continue to act like victims and trying to circumvent karmic justice. And we got people falling for that


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  11. #91
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    Re: Count Down begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Why do people say there's no evidence? Maz said he would bowl the no-ball on a specific delivery and he clearly did so. Doesn't look great.
    He defended himself saying his captain put him under pressure to bowla faster delivery to put the batsman on the backfood. No money was found on him and records show that was his fastest delivery in the over and his no ball was marginal. Other than Mazhars word there isnt much evidence

  12. #92
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    Anyway, there's something sad about comparing the legendary days and great bowlers of Pakistan cricket with a bunch of fans sat around a table wishing for the reinstatement of an ex-con. Just sayin.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    He defended himself saying his captain put him under pressure to bowla faster delivery to put the batsman on the backfood. No money was found on him and records show that was his fastest delivery in the over and his no ball was marginal. Other than Mazhars word there isnt much evidence
    Majeed called a no-ball, and it turned out to be a no-ball.

    Everything else is conjecture.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Why do people say there's no evidence? Maz said he would bowl the no-ball on a specific delivery and he clearly did so. Doesn't look great.
    True, but he could easily say Butt (Captain) told me to do so, and he was just following whatever Butt told him.


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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by JilaWatan View Post
    not a fixer if the court finds no evidence
    It is already proven that he is a fixer. That is why he went to jail in UK.
    Last edited by justarslan; 5th March 2013 at 20:06.


    "Give me the cold steel of the European Cup over a warm smile any day." L6 Red

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  17. #97
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    Let's refrain from personal attacks and stick to the topic at hand please.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by justarslan View Post
    It is already proven that he is a fixer. That is why he went to jail in UK.
    CAS has noting to do with UK sentence. ICC tribunal's trial is everything and, if they find a flaw in their ruling, it's normal for the ban to be overturned and every board to accept it because it would mean ICC screwed up and doesn't have legitimacy to rule on Asif's case given they already did something that went against their code of judgement.

    Again, I don't see it happening but, if Asif's ban is overturned, it's nobody's business whether he plays or not except selection comitee, and that SC should select or not select him based on performance and attitude only, not past.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingusama92 View Post
    Let's hope the decision comes sooner rather than later. Just so we can put this issue to an end once and for all.

    If he's cleared, he should be allowed back after a go in domestic cricket. He's a class bowler, I don't think he'll have much problems on that end.

    He'll have enough time to prepare for the Champions Trophy as his comeback platform (if he's allowed in England).
    Ironically, I believe it was the last Champions Trophy where he made his comeback after his previous ban?

  20. #100
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    James,
    I think he was guilty, but that the evidence at an individual criminal or ICC trial was insufficient to convict.

    But this was never a serious enough offence for a life ban (except for Butt) and if COAS recommends that the existing 2.5 years served is a sufficient sentence then Asif should return.

  21. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Why do people say there's no evidence? Maz said he would bowl the no-ball on a specific delivery and he clearly did so. Doesn't look great.
    Maz also mentioned other gazalion specific things...which never happened/materialized
    (no one ever included those specific thing in probability calculation)
    had we had bright judge/jury, verdict would be totally different...


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    James,
    I think he was guilty, but that the evidence at an individual criminal or ICC trial was insufficient to convict.

    But this was never a serious enough offence for a life ban (except for Butt) and if COAS recommends that the existing 2.5 years served is a sufficient sentence then Asif should return.
    I have seen several posters using "coas" but i think it's CAS


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    I have seen several posters using "coas" but i think it's CAS
    Or perhaps even "coerce"


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  24. #104
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    COAS = Court of Arbritation for Sports
    CAS = ^^^^^

  25. #105
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    COAS= Chief of Army Staff

  26. #106
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    looks improbable,near to impossible if limits apply

  27. #107
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    Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    Whens the decision going to be made.


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  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnanulhaq97 View Post
    COAS = Court of Arbritation for Sports
    CAS = ^^^^^
    CAS= Court of Arbritation for Sports
    TAS (in french)


    COAS= Chief of Army Staff (in Pakistan)

    Name:  TAS-CAS.jpg
Views: 200
Size:  19.0 KB


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  29. #109
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    (c) Dawn news

    LAUSANNE: Disgraced former Pakistan captain Salman Butt and fast bowler Mohammad Asif should learn in April whether the Court of Arbitration for Sport has overturned their bans for spot-fixing.

    A spokesman for the Swiss-based court told AFP on Thursday that the results of the two ex-players’ hearings, held at the start of February, were scheduled to be issued in a month’s time.

    Butt, Asif and fellow paceman Mohammad Amir were banned by the International Cricket Council (ICC) in 2011 after being found guilty of corruption for deliberately contriving no balls to order in the infamous Lord’s Test against England in 2010.

    In November 2011, the trio were also jailed by a British court over the scandal, which was linked to an illegal betting ring.

    All three were released last year after completing half of their sentences.

    The case was among cricket’s biggest scandals of recent years.

    Butt, now 28, was banned from the game for 10 years, with the possibility of five suspended.

    He maintains that the suspension was a career-ending punishment and has insisted he should be given another opportunity to play for Pakistan.

    Asif, now 30, was banned for seven years, with two suspended, and the then teenager Amir for five years.

    Amir, now 20, decided not to pursue his appeal at the CAS, after pleading guilty to the charges in Britain.

    Asif played 23 Tests and 38 one-day internationals and was regarded as one of the best new-ball bowlers in the world.

    Butt was made Test captain on the tour of England while Amir was regarded as the fastest emerging bowler in the world.

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricguru View Post



    (c) Dawn news

    LAUSANNE: Disgraced former Pakistan captain Salman Butt and fast bowler Mohammad Asif should learn in April whether the Court of Arbitration for Sport has overturned their bans for spot-fixing.

    A spokesman for the Swiss-based court told AFP on Thursday that the results of the two ex-players’ hearings, held at the start of February, were scheduled to be issued in a month’s time.

    Butt, Asif and fellow paceman Mohammad Amir were banned by the International Cricket Council (ICC) in 2011 after being found guilty of corruption for deliberately contriving no balls to order in the infamous Lord’s Test against England in 2010.

    In November 2011, the trio were also jailed by a British court over the scandal, which was linked to an illegal betting ring.

    All three were released last year after completing half of their sentences.

    The case was among cricket’s biggest scandals of recent years.

    Butt, now 28, was banned from the game for 10 years, with the possibility of five suspended.

    He maintains that the suspension was a career-ending punishment and has insisted he should be given another opportunity to play for Pakistan.

    Asif, now 30, was banned for seven years, with two suspended, and the then teenager Amir for five years.

    Amir, now 20, decided not to pursue his appeal at the CAS, after pleading guilty to the charges in Britain.

    Asif played 23 Tests and 38 one-day internationals and was regarded as one of the best new-ball bowlers in the world.

    Butt was made Test captain
    on the tour of England while Amir was regarded as the fastest emerging bowler in the world.
    I wonder how things wud have turned out, had butt never been named captain..

  31. #111
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    I wonder when courts delays verdicts, would it not be a good news for defense / appealing party...


    It could be reason due to CAS is strugling to reject appeal or decide if ban remains
    or CAS did ask ICC to provide more information, proof or anything that goes in ICC defense and ICC is struggling
    It could be good for Asif if CAS keeps delaying their verdict


    Any thoughts ?

  32. #112
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    Well the fact they are delaying it means they are having difficult reaching a verdict, probably goes in Asifs favor


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  33. #113
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    The judges are probably on holidays.


    Privatize PCB

  34. #114
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    Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Zero View Post
    I have seen several posters using "coas" but i think it's CAS
    Maybe they want to say chaos

  35. #115
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    Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by shokz1408 View Post
    I wonder how things wud have turned out, had butt never been named captain..
    These crooks would still have been caught in some other incident,

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanigoneaussie View Post
    Well the fact they are delaying it means they are having difficult reaching a verdict, probably goes in Asifs favor
    maybe they are giving time to people to find more evidence against asif, and if they cannot do that, then reduce or get rid of his ban??

    this is like DRS in cricket, the longer it goes on, it seems the batsmen will get the benefit of the doubt.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilbo View Post
    These crooks would still have been caught in some other incident,
    see Aus tour 2009 and lanka tour 2009..the mafia at work e.g. moyos run out and the stare!!

  38. #118
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    Looks good for Asif, there must be closed curtain deals going b/w Asif lawyer and ICC prosecutor.

    Chances would be they must be working on terms for numbers years the ban can be reduced, may be CAS is willing to reduce 2-3 of ban and ICC lawyers are not happy.

    It could be CAS decided to finish ban on Asif, and ICC requested more time so they can provide additional evidence and documents

    Asif lawer once said if CAS did not throw the ban away then his next argument would be significant reduction of his ban, and looks like it is what is happening in back ground ...

    Law students please input ur comments as this is a very interesting case, we all are waitng for the verdicts

  39. #119
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    The decisions almost certainly has already been made. But before it can be formally issued, it has to be checked vis-a-vis any potenial legal ramifications, the relevant sections of the appeal code under which the decision has been arrived at, justifications for the rejection or acceptance of the appeal etc..etc.. All this involves a great deal of paperwork and administrative procedures, which all take time.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 8th March 2013 at 14:02.


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    Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    If he does get his ban removed or shortened then I don't think It really matters to the team but for him clearing his name is important .


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  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    If he does get his ban removed or shortened then I don't think It really matters to the team but for him clearing his name is important .
    Lol i think it matters alot to the team. especially with the likes of wahab and gul around the team. A third seamer like asif to go with junaid and irfan will do pakistan wonders.

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    Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by shokz1408 View Post
    Lol i think it matters alot to the team. especially with the likes of wahab and gul around the team. A third seamer like asif to go with junaid and irfan will do pakistan wonders.
    I don't think the PCB share the same view .


    A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.

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  43. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    I don't think the PCB share the same view .
    I just hope they do. because getting asif back will strengthen our bowling line up big time

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    but knowing the selectors, theyd keep gul in the side and drop irfan or junaid :/

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    Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by shokz1408 View Post
    I just hope they do. because getting asif back will strengthen our bowling line up big time
    I dont think he should come back but watching him bowl was just awesome the way he set up batsmen was terrific .


    A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.

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  46. #126
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    Would love to see asif being cleared.he was and is still great asset for pak team.if he had been playing results of s.a tour would have been different.

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seharyounis View Post
    Would love to see asif being cleared.he was and is still great asset for pak team.if he had been playing results of s.a tour would have been different.
    do people seriously want cheats back in team just bcos u dont have good bowlers right now ?
    im sure if u had another asif like bowler none of u would want him back..

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    Countdown begins for Mohammad Asif's CAS Appeal Verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    do people seriously want cheats back in team just bcos u dont have good bowlers right now ?
    im sure if u had another asif like bowler none of u would want him back..
    Thats the point though we don't have another Asif and probably won't for at least another 5-10 years .


    A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.

    Malcolm X

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    do people seriously want cheats back in team just bcos u dont have good bowlers right now ?
    im sure if u had another asif like bowler none of u would want him back..
    yes, but we don't.. or we haven't seen him yet. In which case we need Asif!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shokz1408 View Post
    yes, but we don't.. or we haven't seen him yet. In which case we need Asif!!
    we do not need the disgrace. Will people like you be happy when another spot or match fixing scandal happens? we are the laughing stock of the cricketing world because of the corruption in our players and the fans who are willing to support it.

  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seharyounis View Post
    Would love to see asif being cleared.he was and is still great asset for pak team.if he had been playing results of s.a tour would have been different.
    yes Asif would have turned into Don Bradman and averaged over 70 with the bat. His wonderful batting would have made up for poor performances by Hafeez, Nasir, Sarfaraz etc. We know what an outstanding batsmen Asif was.

  52. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    Thats the point though we don't have another Asif and probably won't for at least another 5-10 years .
    Quote Originally Posted by shokz1408 View Post
    yes, but we don't.. or we haven't seen him yet. In which case we need Asif!!
    But that shows your own lack of moral values doesnt it? Right and wrong, moral or immoral, doesnt change with the talent of the person in question. If something is wrong, its wrong no matter how talented a person is. You guys are saying that if the person in question was Sami, you will not want him to escape the ban and justice should be served, but because its a talented bowler, you want him to use a loop-hole to escape? in that case, what else would you be willing to do for profit? Support a thief, murderer, etc? Now you will say that spot-fixing is not that big a deal, but thats not the point at all, its about the moral values of people who are supporting a player just because he is talented. They know what he did is wrong but they want him to escape because he is talented. IMO, this makes them as bad as Asif


    "Because sixes" - hassie110 answering why Afridi and Yuvraj are rated so high

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    But that shows your own lack of moral values doesnt it? Right and wrong, moral or immoral, doesnt change with the talent of the person in question. If something is wrong, its wrong no matter how talented a person is. You guys are saying that if the person in question was Sami, you will not want him to escape the ban and justice should be served, but because its a talented bowler, you want him to use a loop-hole to escape? in that case, what else would you be willing to do for profit? Support a thief, murderer, etc? Now you will say that spot-fixing is not that big a deal, but thats not the point at all, its about the moral values of people who are supporting a player just because he is talented. They know what he did is wrong but they want him to escape because he is talented. IMO, this makes them as bad as Asif
    I dont want him back in the team just saying he wasnt no average bowler either .


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  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    I dont want him back in the team just saying he wasnt no average bowler either .
    I dont think anyone doubts that, do they?


    "Because sixes" - hassie110 answering why Afridi and Yuvraj are rated so high

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    But that shows your own lack of moral values doesnt it? Right and wrong, moral or immoral, doesnt change with the talent of the person in question. If something is wrong, its wrong no matter how talented a person is. You guys are saying that if the person in question was Sami, you will not want him to escape the ban and justice should be served, but because its a talented bowler, you want him to use a loop-hole to escape? in that case, what else would you be willing to do for profit? Support a thief, murderer, etc? Now you will say that spot-fixing is not that big a deal, but thats not the point at all, its about the moral values of people who are supporting a player just because he is talented. They know what he did is wrong but they want him to escape because he is talented. IMO, this makes them as bad as Asif
    Easy there Gandhi Ji. Nobody said anything about getting murderers off.

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    Thats the point though we don't have another Asif and probably won't for at least another 5-10 years .
    Quote Originally Posted by shokz1408 View Post
    yes, but we don't.. or we haven't seen him yet. In which case we need Asif!!
    yar think abt it carefully..only reason u want him in team is cos there is no one else good enough
    not bcos u dont think he deserves to play but bcos u need him..
    should never think like htis imo..would send wrong example to youngsters too
    moreover try finding another asif and this time save him instead of wasting time on cheaters..

    u just cannot cheat in sports and get away it just destroys meaning of sports..its fraud with every cricket fan and not just ur country keep that in mind ..

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    yar think abt it carefully..only reason u want him in team is cos there is no one else good enough
    not bcos u dont think he deserves to play but bcos u need him..
    should never think like htis imo..would send wrong example to youngsters too
    moreover try finding another asif and this time save him instead of wasting time on cheaters..

    u just cannot cheat in sports and get away it just destroys meaning of sports..its fraud with every cricket fan and not just ur country keep that in mind ..
    You guys keep resurrecting these straw men, you seem to have a whole bunch of them in your basement.

    Lets get something very clear here....

    None of them got away with it.

  58. #138
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    also maybe i did not make my point clearly enough
    if u wont play him if u had good replacements that means even u guys think he does not deserves to be given chance at international level again..isnt that true ?
    and why is that? u might win u some matches but at what price?
    why not keep backing youngsters who actually want to do well for country instead of selling its pride..
    to me in asif's case who has done these type of things time and time again there is not even a good argument to play him ..tbh
    with amir u can say he did not knew what he was getting into.. (i think its total BS and he is equally responsible but thats another discussion )

  59. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarhanZZZ View Post
    You guys keep resurrecting these straw men, you seem to have a whole bunch of them in your basement.

    Lets get something very clear here....

    None of them got away with it.
    get away will be him playing for pakistan again..
    i know he was banned for specific time and it will get over some day but thats just ban by icc..
    if u being a worker at bank rob it and get punished and get released does it means u can get back job in same bank and carry on ur old work ?

    ok.. maybe this is not perfect example but its pretty close if u think abt it u will get my point

  60. #140
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    Thats interesting. So you dont agree with the age old principle of "serving your time" and getting a clean start? Thats quite a radical stance to take. Are you sure you want to defend that?

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    get away will be him playing for pakistan again..
    i know he was banned for specific time and it will get over some day but thats just ban by icc..
    if u being a worker at bank rob it and get punished and get released does it means u can get back job in same bank and carry on ur old work ?

    ok.. maybe this is not perfect example but its pretty close if u think abt it u will get my point
    ummm no...I dont have to think about it, this example is absolutely ridiculous. He did not steal anyone's money. He made money illegally(maybe). Huge, huge difference. Shows a serious lack of intellect, as well as morality, for you to equate the two.

    But just to humor your two-bit, juvenile example, yes, I firmly believe people should get second, third and more chances at life. It is, ofcourse, up to the bank whether or not they want to hire the guy. As it is up to the ICC and the PCB whether or not they want to allow these guys back. This is a perfectly valid moral position to take. Your position, in fact, is the one lacking in morality here, unfortunately.
    Last edited by FarhanZZZ; 8th March 2013 at 16:12.

  62. #142
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    Why is is that some PPers can't understand the basic aspects surrounding a ban?

    "I don't want Asif in the team ..", "PCb should'nt allow this" ... blah, blah, blah

    Can't you understand that once he's served his ban, whether the full 5 years or whether a reduced period, he will be free to play? The PCB, or anyone else, cannot then impose a new 'international ban' (unless he breaks the rules again) and can only excude him from the team based upon pure cricketing reasons, and not because of his previous demeanours.

    And before anyone starts making comparisons with "accountants cheating their employers..." or similar, there is a BIG difference. In those types of cases, the punishment, eg ban from working working for the employer again, is setout at the start, when the punishment is issued. . In the case of Asif and the other two, the punishments did not state 'life-bans' right at the outset, so you cannot convert the original ban to a life-ban once the original ban is served.

    It does'nt matter whether they are "cheats" or not, it does'nt matter what you or I think. The PCB cannot impose a new, extended ban, once the previous ban has been served, unless the rules are broken again. And having time-frames on the original bans means that the ICC/PCB were saying that they will be free to play once those bans are served.

    Is that too difficult to understand?
    Last edited by Yossarian; 8th March 2013 at 16:29.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

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    The PCB will just side line him though even if they can't impose a ban on him .


    A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.

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  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarhanZZZ View Post
    ummm no...I dont have to think about it, this example is absolutely ridiculous. He did not steal anyone's money. He made money illegally(maybe). Huge, huge difference. Shows a serious lack of intellect, as well as morality, for you to equate the two.

    But just to humor your two-bit, juvenile example, yes, I firmly believe people should get second, third and more chances at life. It is, ofcourse, up to the bank whether or not they want to hire the guy. As it is up to the ICC and the PCB whether or not they want to allow these guys back. This is a perfectly valid moral position to take. Your position, in fact, is the one lacking in morality here, unfortunately.
    actually no its not
    dont know abt bank but u cant be manager in company if u have done fraud before
    no matter who you are u are just banned by law in india

    also please dont be so naive stealing money..well maybe u dont get it he did much worse then that..
    he made that series worth less
    he made whole country of urs a butt of joke for that same reason
    and sports are supposed to be pure and people watch it for only this reason that its not fixed its just battle of skills..simple!!!
    if he changes that he does game big hard..now every time a pak bowler bowls no ball a big no ball we all know what the reaction is!

    and honestly reading ur comment u think fixing is not such a big deal ..and does not harms any one ..attitude like this by fans is just scary to me and will send young cricketers a bad bad example

  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    The PCB will just side line him though even if they can't impose a ban on him .
    and its the right thing to do
    ur team is doing fine..try finding some morep layers like ajmal who are not jsut gr8 players but gr8 person
    i know its frustrating to see bowling struggle with 2 best bowlers out but playing them again is not a solution its going backward again..

  66. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    The PCB will just side line him though even if they can't impose a ban on him .
    On what basis? Read my previous post.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  67. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
    On what basis? Read my previous post.
    On the basis they choose .
    Has anyone even asked Asif If he wants to play cricket again ?!


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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    and honestly reading ur comment u think fixing is not such a big deal ..and does not harms any one ..attitude like this by fans is just scary to me and will send young cricketers a bad bad example
    Ridiculous! Go talk to your fellow 12 year olds and leave the real conversation to the grownups. What absolute drivel!

  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarhanZZZ View Post
    Thats interesting. So you dont agree with the age old principle of "serving your time" and getting a clean start? Thats quite a radical stance to take. Are you sure you want to defend that?
    serve time and get out
    but u never get ur old life back
    bank comparison was to make u understand difference between serving time and difference between getting job back
    the crime he commited was irrelevant ..point was the crime
    now we can debate on which is worse but u have to understand the difference between serving time and getting out
    and serving time and getting back and getting back same job like nothing happened

  70. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    actually no its not
    dont know abt bank but u cant be manager in company if u have done fraud before
    no matter who you are u are just banned by law in india

    also please dont be so naive stealing money..well maybe u dont get it he did much worse then that..
    he made that series worth less
    he made whole country of urs a butt of joke for that same reason
    and sports are supposed to be pure and people watch it for only this reason that its not fixed its just battle of skills..simple!!!
    if he changes that he does game big hard..now every time a pak bowler bowls no ball a big no ball we all know what the reaction is!

    and honestly reading ur comment u think fixing is not such a big deal ..and does not harms any one ..attitude like this by fans is just scary to me and will send young cricketers a bad bad example
    You still don't understand the difference between a time-limited ban as opposed to a life-time ban.

    Let me spell it out for you. The ...ban ... on ... Asif ... is ... a ... time-limited ... ban!


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  71. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    serve time and get out
    but u never get ur old life back
    bank comparison was to make u understand difference between serving time and difference between getting job back
    the crime he commited was irrelevant ..point was the crime
    now we can debate on which is worse but u have to understand the difference between serving time and getting out
    and serving time and getting back and getting back same job like nothing happened
    Wait a second, if I'm a street vendor, and I swipe my customer's wallet, then go to jail, then come back, should I not be allowed to vend anymore? This is so ridiculous a notion it should not even be entertained.

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by pakistanalltheway View Post
    On the basis they choose .
    No they cannot. They have to, if they are fulfilling their roles correctly, pick the best players available at the time. Asif will be available after his ban is completed. Whether or not he is still good enough is a different question.
    Has anyone even asked Asif If he wants to play cricket again ?!
    Considering he's appealing his cricket ban, and not his ciminal conviction, don't you think he's going to all that trouble so that he can play again? Or do you think he just likes going to Switzerland, and that is the only way to get a Swiss entry visa?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  73. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarhanZZZ View Post
    Ridiculous! Go talk to your fellow 12 year olds and leave the real conversation to the grownups. What absolute drivel!
    its hardly a conversation when i dont agree with u and u call me 12 year old...

    u have been rude with me form start and i have ignored it 2 times now.

    now whats so surprising about that?
    so according to only stealing money is crime? are u kidding me ?
    what he did was mush worse..fix a game is worst thing u can do to a sport.. jsut get this in ur head

    also serving time doed not means everything will be like before its reality..
    you are what u do..2nd chances work but not for everything ..

    u have to think of it this way it was not just his life that fixing effected
    it was not just him making money..but every person who was watching the game got conned by him
    all people who were playing game what about them?
    and about morality im seeing this in much more realistic way then you are
    its not just abt him making mistake doing time and coming back

    his personal punishment might be over but he conned every one else too and pcb has every right to ignore him from selection ..

  74. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarhanZZZ View Post
    Wait a second, if I'm a street vendor, and I swipe my customer's wallet, then go to jail, then come back, should I not be allowed to vend anymore? This is so ridiculous a notion it should not even be entertained.
    but ur not a strret vendor
    ur a high profile sportsman REPRESENTING ur country
    it is not just about him u have to understand the difference

    and abt vendor well he can try selling but question is will any one go near him or trust him ? ;)
    same way he can try a come back but its upto pcb to select him and if they dont u cannot blame them

  75. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    same way he can try a come back but its upto pcb to select him and if they dont u cannot blame them
    There we go. Argument settled. Done and dusted.

    By the by, in the same vein, if they do select him, u cannot blame them either.
    Last edited by FarhanZZZ; 8th March 2013 at 16:52.

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    its hardly a conversation when i dont agree with u and u call me 12 year old...

    u have been rude with me form start and i have ignored it 2 times now.

    now whats so surprising about that?
    so according to only stealing money is crime? are u kidding me ?
    what he did was mush worse..fix a game is worst thing u can do to a sport.. jsut get this in ur head

    also serving time doed not means everything will be like before its reality..
    you are what u do..2nd chances work but not for everything ..

    u have to think of it this way it was not just his life that fixing effected
    it was not just him making money..but every person who was watching the game got conned by him
    all people who were playing game what about them?
    and about morality im seeing this in much more realistic way then you are
    its not just abt him making mistake doing time and coming back

    his personal punishment might be over but he conned every one else too and pcb has every right to ignore him from selection ..
    For the criminal conviction, he has served his sentence and been released. He is now a free man.
    If the law wanted to stop him being a free man, they would have given him a life-long prison sentence.

    Similarly, the cricket authorities gave him a 5 year ban. Once the ban is served, he will be also be a 'free man' from a cricketing point of view, ie free to play. Without any conditions.

    Had they wanted to stop him playing cricket ever again, they would have given him a life ban (as the ECB gave Kaneria, which Kaneria is appealing). Had they wanted Asif to be allowed to play domestic cricket only, but ban him from international cricket for life, they would have put that condition right at the beginning. They did'nt. They cannot add that condition now retrospectively.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  77. #157
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    i know that
    all im saying is if after his ban is over and pcb does not select him then its well under there right to ignore him
    asif can try playing and try to get selected but im talking abt pcb wanting him back and people wanting him back

  78. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarhanZZZ View Post
    There we go. Argument settled. Done and dusted.

    By the by, in the same vein, if they do select him, u cannot blame them either.
    actually other teams can
    and i already gave u plenty of reasons why as its not just his personal life he effected by fixing a game..

    honestly dont think this guy will ever play cricket again amir maybe but cant see asif or butt getting anywhere close to side

  79. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    i know that
    In which case what's your gripe?
    Unless, in your case, knowing something is not the same as understanding it?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlafan79 View Post
    actually other teams can
    and i already gave u plenty of reasons why as its not just his personal life he effected by fixing a game..

    honestly dont think this guy will ever play cricket again amir maybe but cant see asif or butt getting anywhere close to side
    *hair pulling!!!*

    How thick is this guy?

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