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Thread: "No plan to change Mohammad Amir's minimum sanction" : Dave Richardson

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  1. #1
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    "No plan to change Mohammad Amir's minimum sanction" : Dave Richardson

    South African born, Dave Richardson, became the first wicket keeper for his country when they returned from international isolation in 1992. His ability to battle against odds made him an important part of the squad – he retired from International cricket in 1998 after an illustrious career in which he represented his country in 42 Test matches and 122 ODIs with a single Test hundred to his name - a gritty 109 made against New Zealand at Cape Town in 1994-95.

    A lawyer by training and with his articulate views on cricket, he continued his connection with cricket initially as a business agent for several players. In January 2002, he was appointed as the ICC's first General Manager and on 28th June 2012 Richardson was appointed as the new Chief Executive Officer of the ICC.

    In exclusive remarks to PakPassion.net, Richardson spoke of the ICC’s role in promotion of T20 leagues round the world as well as initiatives to encourage the popularity of the game on a global scale. He also addressed some common misconceptions about the role of his organization in matters such as alleged favouritism of richer Cricket boards and commented on the length of ban on Mohammed Amir.


    PakPassion.net: What role does the ICC see in governing T20 leagues around the world?

    Dave Richardson: These are domestic events which are run by our Member Boards. ICC Board agreed that domestic T20 leagues can add to the game as a whole and that any deliberations should be aimed at “the growth and sustainability of international cricket” by “attaining co-existence between domestic T20 leagues and the international game.

    Domestic Twenty20 leagues have provided so many opportunities for players and officials alike as well as entertaining large domestic crowds. A workable and balanced international playing calendar is key to the sustainability of the game. We also need to ensure that cricket is played in a corruption-free environment.

    The ICC Anti-Corruption and Security Unit (ACSU) is doing some great work in this regard. All Boards should be complimented on the progress they have made in putting their own anti-corruption resources in place but this is only the first step. Effective implementation of appropriate programmes and processes together with the timely and effective investigation and prosecution of all reported incidents is also crucial.


    PakPassion.net: Some fans perhaps in their eternal optimism believe that Mohammad Amir’s ban could be reduced from 5 years. Can you clarify if this is possible or not and thus end the speculation?

    Dave Richardson: Under the ICC Anti-Corruption Code the minimum ban is 5 years and at this stage there is no plan to change that minimum sanction.


    PakPassion.net: Do you regret taking your task force, with Geoff Lawson, to try to force the New Zealand team to travel to the Champions Trophy in Pakistan especially after the hotel they were supposed to be in, was bombed when they were originally supposed to be there?

    Dave Richardson: The so-called task team was made up of ICC officials and included an independent security advisor. The job of the task team was simply to advise the various Boards and players the facts of the security situation in Pakistan at the time and the security plan that had been proposed to deal with the situation so that they could make an informed decision themselves on whether it was safe to travel to Pakistan for the Champions Trophy. The task team made no attempt to hide the facts or the extent of the threat as it was known to ICC at the time.


    PakPassion.net: Some fans believe that the ICC favours the richer cricket boards. How can this opinion be changed?

    Dave Richardson: The ICC Board comprises of the 10 Full Member chairmen/presidents and each have an equal vote. It is for those members to decide on what is best for the game and make their decisions accordingly.



    PakPassion.net: Some feel that cricket needs to be expanded and more countries need to become permanent members. What are you doing to make this happen?

    Dave Richardson: There is an expansive development programme which caters for the 96 members below the Full Members and recently the ICC has introduced at Targeted Assistance and Performance Programme which is aimed at improving the performances of the lower ranked Full Members as well as the leading Associates and Affiliates.

    Through the Pepsi World Cricket League there is a clear progression path for Associate and Affiliate nations which has seen countries such as Afghanistan as well as Ireland, Scotland and Netherlands emerge recently. It also provides a qualification path to the ICC Cricket World Cup.

    The ICC Strategic plan also encourages the development of more competitive countries. Full Members are also encouraged to play Associate and Affiliate countries on a regular basis to help with their development.


    PakPassion.net: Is the ICC mulling a separate window for the IPL?

    Dave Richardson: No window has been requested nor discussed although ICC and the Member Boards are looking at the best ways of capitalizing on the success of T20 cricket domestically around the world.


    PakPassion.net: Your thoughts on the potential introduction of a two division setup, with promotion and relegation in Test cricket?

    Dave Richardson: This hasn’t been discussed and our aim is to increase the number of competitive countries not to set up a two tier competition.


    PakPassion.net: What developments have been made in regards to the ICC Test Championship we'll see in 2017?

    Dave Richardson: The event is scheduled for England in 2017 and over the next year we will identify the qualification process.


    PakPassion.net: Is there any indication that we will be seeing day/night tests in the not-too-distant future?

    Dave Richardson: In Kuala Lumpur at our Annual Conference in 2012 it was agreed that countries wishing to play day night test matches can do so with the approval of their opponents. There have been several trials at domestic level of coloured cricket balls, encouraged by the ICC, and there is still some debate on the quality and the best colour for day night cricket.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  2. #2
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    This is not good


    “Pyar Naal Na Sahi , Ghusay Naal Wekh Laya Kar , Bemaraan Noon Shifa Mil Jaan'di Ay." - H2O

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    This is perfect

  4. #4
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    can he some how help increase Amir's ban? i hope Amir's ban is increased.

  5. #5
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    Good. Even after Amir's ban is over, he should never be allowed to represent Pakistan in international cricket.

  6. #6
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    Only five years? why not a life ban? Why stop here, lets hang him to satisfy few self righteous fans !!

  7. #7
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    This is good, no need to be soft here. Should serve his five year ban, he is welcomed to play for Pakistan provided he shows that he is good enough to play by preforming well in FC

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak View Post
    Only five years? why not a life ban? Why stop here, lets hang him to satisfy few self righteous fans !!
    5 years ban is enough. No more and no less is needed.


    "I tried to count the stars while in bed. To keep the thoughts of monsters from my head."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak View Post
    Only five years? why not a life ban? Why stop here, lets hang him to satisfy few self righteous fans !!
    he shouldn't have been given any punishment in order to satisfy many idiotic fans blinded by "talent".

  10. #10
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    Only five years? why not a life ban? Why stop here, lets hang him to satisfy few self righteous fans !!
    Though its sarcastic but your plan makes sense.... harsh punishment for anyone who would sell out his country and its honor for a few bucks. I dont care if we have 4 tanvir ahmeds bowling i dont want this kid in our team infact not even in the domestic circuit. There are 20 pages of threads about this.... soo far good.

    Seemed like a very stiff interview.
    Last edited by saiyan0312; 25th February 2013 at 17:33.

  11. #11
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    This is good, no need to be soft here. Should serve his five year ban, he is welcomed to play for Pakistan provided he shows that he is good enough to play by preforming well in FC
    Cmon yaar... i know the law says that once free you are innocent again but that is not how the world works... We will most probably be the only team who would play a convicted fixer. anyway doubt he will even be able to make an impact after 5 years of no cricket.... if i know his fans they will be saying play him for the 2015 world cup immediately.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    he shouldn't have been given any punishment in order to satisfy many idiotic fans blinded by "talent".
    Oh yes "talent" again, If in the past, boards didnt go out of their way to sweep it under the carpet, i'd have been fine with the bans? If ICC didn't turn a blind eye to "recent reports of fixing", i'd have been totally fine but hey i represent the idiots who believes in equal treatment for everyone but i guess humans are not welcome to a world run by angels as we make mistakes

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by saiyan0312 View Post
    Though its sarcastic but your plan makes sense.... harsh punishment for anyone who would sell out his country and its honor for a few bucks. I dont care if we have 4 tanvir ahmeds bowling i dont want this kid in our team infact not even in the domestic circuit. There are 20 pages of threads about this.... soo far good.

    Seemed like a very stiff interview.
    Ya lets make an example out of a kid because cricket has never forgiven anyone before and nor has it ever bent the rules for anyone

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    No lets just accept with him flowers.

    Red carpet. You are our hero. You never did anything wrong for the nation. You are the light our youngsters look upon.

    Welcome Back Amir soon !

    We need you. We are desperate to have you back.


    AA Tujh Ko Bata'on Main TAQDEER E UMAM Kiya Hai

    Shamsheer o Sanaa Awal, Ta'oos o Rubab Aakhir

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Bassim View Post
    No lets just accept with him flowers.

    Red carpet. You are our hero. You never did anything wrong for the nation. You are the light our youngsters look upon. .
    Actually i have already seen it before and i am sure you were one of them who cheered for closet fixers when they took us to a world cup final.

    Its not a disrespect to the great man but if you seriously judge people like that then change your signature because i am old enough to remember how he walked out on Pakistan Cricket for a WORLD series, why would you be a fan of the man who chose money over Pakistan because you only idolize the saints?
    Last edited by ecstatic_freak; 25th February 2013 at 18:00.

  16. #16
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    I have no support for this cheater but after punishment he is free to play.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by saiyan0312 View Post
    Though its sarcastic but your plan makes sense.... harsh punishment for anyone who would sell out his country and its honor for a few bucks. I dont care if we have 4 tanvir ahmeds bowling i dont want this kid in our team infact not even in the domestic circuit. There are 20 pages of threads about this.... soo far good.

    Seemed like a very stiff interview.
    Freudian psychology, displacement is an unconscious defense mechanism whereby the mind redirects affects from an object felt to be dangerous or unacceptable to an object felt to be safe or acceptable.

    People in Pakistan feel powerless to go after bigger and dangerous thugs, the people who bank corrupt the whole economy, the people who mortgage our kids future and here we are, taking the frustration and anger( Displacement effect) on people who stole few thousands pounds for the sake of some no balls ( not even throwing the whole game).

    Same people will stand in line to bring the same thugs again in power in few months.


    You don't know and you don't know that you don't know.

  18. #18
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    Aamir

    This much is enough for Aamir


    After all we can't waste his talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zaid65 View Post
    Freudian psychology, displacement is an unconscious defense mechanism whereby the mind redirects affects from an object felt to be dangerous or unacceptable to an object felt to be safe or acceptable.

    People in Pakistan feel powerless to go after bigger and dangerous thugs, the people who bank corrupt the whole economy, the people who mortgage our kids future and here we are, taking the frustration and anger( Displacement effect) on people who stole few thousands pounds for the sake of some no balls ( not even throwing the whole game).

    Same people will stand in line to bring the same thugs again in power in few months.
    Very true bro!!! If a convicted lowlife can rule the country then this is peanuts in comparison......... I agree the Pak public has no guts, where's the revolution like in Syria, Egypt, Libya..... where the people could no longer stomach the crap/ abuse they were being fed by the rulers........ no just like the Pak cricketers who have no fight in them the Pak public will swallow further humiliation without batting an eyelid!

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    What about butt and asif? Please keep them away too. Thanks !!


    Shahid Afridi - It's not about winning or losing the game. IT's ABOUT GETTING OUT !

  21. #21
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    SAJ@
    Ask Him
    3 year ban is enough for 18 year old Kid
    I want to see Amir back in Green shirt in Aug-10/2013

  22. #22
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    The perennial Default arguement by the supporters of the corrupt..

    Now look here.. X is getting away with murder.. You simply CANNOT punish Y for the robbery he has committed.. first go after the bigger culprit.

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    How can they even reconsider whether the penalty can be less or more severe. I thought one of the cardinal legal rules was that retroactive punishment( or for that matter lack of punishment) is not in accordance with legal theory. Once you've been given a penalty for a crime, you should serve the time. Any modifications with the punishment and the Rule that accompanies it would only be amended in future cases.

  24. #24
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    it's a good thing the CAS overrules the icc


    ''....the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted... ''(18:109)

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceshot View Post
    The perennial Default arguement by the supporters of the corrupt..

    Now look here.. X is getting away with murder.. You simply CANNOT punish Y for the robbery he has committed.. first go after the bigger culprit.
    Difference is Aamir was punished.

    Jailtime, Taken away his financial gain means and Taken away his passion for 5 years, Shame and Insults for the rest of his life.

    For what? 5000 thousand rupees. 50 euros. The price of the latest ICC game. The price my meal yesterday. The price I paid my cable company to watch Aamir Bowl.

    I don't wish that to the worse of my ennemies and the judgement is clearly too harsh given his youth and how manipulable he was (otherwise, how could he sell his career for 50 euros?)
    Last edited by endymion248; 26th February 2013 at 01:56.

  26. #26
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    The clamour here for forgiveness for Amir tells more about the state of Pakistan's pacers than the forgiving nature of some fans. If couple of good fast bowlers had performed consistently in the meantime, this would've been a dead subject.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by par View Post
    The clamour here for forgiveness for Amir tells more about the state of Pakistan's pacers than the forgiving nature of some fans. If couple of good fast bowlers had performed consistently in the meantime, this would've been a dead subject.
    Don't try to downplay our wada dils

    Whatever the reason is, Aamir deserves to be forgiven. And, dare I say, both ICC, PCB and fickle fans should ask him for forgiveness for their behaviour was unhuman.

    For the past 100 years, mature people have raped and murdered multiple times with getting away for free. A young kid has smoked some weed and government has decided:

    ''Enough is enough. Too many have sinned. Why? Because Weed is the root of all evils, let's hang him for all those who got away with rape and murder''.

  28. #28
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    Redundant flawed arguments everywhere.

    Even if Amir is allowed to play , no one would want to play him.

    No one said he should be banned from cricket forever. He can serve his time. And then he can come back and play the Premier Leagues.

    I am sorry.

    But last I heard, the price for selling your country in my eyes is NOT to don the national colors again.

    I should know. I belong to a sportsperson family. And the basic thing they inculcate is, that someone who is representing the country has more harsh repercussions than just someone who is a corrupt common man.

    Fact ov life.

    YOu can get away with stuff if you are representing yourself, but you should not and will not get away if you are representing the country. How hard is it for some people to understand that?


    AA Tujh Ko Bata'on Main TAQDEER E UMAM Kiya Hai

    Shamsheer o Sanaa Awal, Ta'oos o Rubab Aakhir

  29. #29
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    who advised him to confess ?

    his confession played a big impact on "jury members"


    Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    Difference is Aamir was punished.
    Jailtime, Taken away his financial gain means and Taken away his passion for 5 years, Shame and Insults for the rest of his life.

    For what? 5000 thousand rupees. 50 euros. The price of the latest ICC game. The price my meal yesterday. The price I paid my cable company to watch Aamir Bowl.

    I don't wish that to the worse of my ennemies and the judgement is clearly too harsh given his youth and how manipulable he was (otherwise, how could he sell his career for 50 euros?)

    Exactly what is giving you the impression that you are a custodian of the law?
    What qualification have you got to pass that kinda judgement regarding what should be meted out to the fixer ?

    He already got the minimum punishment. And do not take this as offence.. pakistan has the knack to keep forgiving the culprits. be it match fixing, be it politics or other walks of life.


    And, dare I say, both ICC, PCB and fickle fans should ask him for forgiveness for their behaviour was unhuman.
    That basically sums up your orientation.
    Sad thing is that you can take a log in here but not think properly.


    Best thing to have happened to pak cricket in this whole fixing saga, is that the three were tried and found guilty in the UK.
    Had it been in pak.. everybody knows what would have happened.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    Don't try to downplay our wada dils

    Whatever the reason is, Aamir deserves to be forgiven. And, dare I say, both ICC, PCB and fickle fans should ask him for forgiveness for their behaviour was unhuman.

    For the past 100 years, mature people have raped and murdered multiple times with getting away for free. A young kid has smoked some weed and government has decided:

    ''Enough is enough. Too many have sinned. Why? Because Weed is the root of all evils, let's hang him for all those who got away with rape and murder''.
    Are you saying that even if there are 3 better fast bowlers playing for Pakistan right now, you would still ask for forgiveness for Amir? I doubt it.

  32. #32
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    Frankly speaking, this Dave guy seems quite rude if u read the way he has answered some questions (I may be wrong in my perception), and if I remember correctly he was heavily criticized for organizing a very poor ODI WC in the Caribbean.
    And seriously, he was an average keeper and a below par batsman for a keeper. Nothing special in him as an impact player. How come he climbed up so high in the ICC ranks?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceshot View Post
    Exactly what is giving you the impression that you are a custodian of the law?
    What qualification have you got to pass that kinda judgement regarding what should be meted out to the fixer ?
    Is this forgiving man not allowed to give his thoughts on the matter, especially in the light of what the decidors said about the minimal punishement being too high?

    He already got the minimum punishment. And do not take this as offence.. pakistan has the knack to keep forgiving the culprits. be it match fixing, be it politics or other walks of life.
    It's not about forgiving when a player has purged his sentence, is it? Selection is an objective process based on the skills and behaviour of a player on a cricket field and outside, nothing to do with his past.

    Most unlike Politics which are based on the subjective feelings of the elector towards the candidate (not so candide in this case) as well as eligibility criterias based on the moral highground that one has to posess for the function.

    TBH, it's a pretty stupid analogy.

    That basically sums up your orientation.
    Sad thing is that you can take a log in here but not think properly.
    Sad Thing is that you can take a log on a forum and are still not able to see humour even when it is under your nose.

    On the politics thing, something funny is that most people think about Zardari when talking about ''taking back culprits'' when the guy spent 10 years in prison without any charge against him being proven.
    Is that the same kind of bias Aamir is banned on currently?

  34. #34
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    Why wasn't this question asked about ICC apologizing to Kallis within hours of a wrong dismissal? ICC hasn't done this in my memory for any other player. Is this cuz Dave is also a South African and may he was the one instrumental behind the ICC apology??

  35. #35
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    So because some rapists and murderers were allowed to walk free, meaning we should forgive Amir? Thats utterly laughable.

    No one needs to apologize to Amir. Whoever suggested that is an idiot.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    So because some rapists and murderers were allowed to walk free, meaning we should forgive Amir? Thats utterly laughable.

    No one needs to apologize to Amir. Whoever suggested that is an idiot.
    It's a metaphore for Wasim/Azaruddin and co but I don't expect self-righteous haters to be so subtle.

  37. #37
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    This has nothing to do with self-righteousness.

    Amir fans, by and large, are simply idiots. Ata-ur-Rehman came into the team at a very young age and was involved in fixing (most likely influenced by seniors). These kinds of excuses would not have been made for him because unlike Amir, he was a player of modest talent. These same kind ob rubbish excuses would not have been made if it was a young Ata Ur Rehman or any other young player who wasn't particularly gifted.

    Amir was a grown man, he was old enough to marry, vote and drive. He (along with Asif and Butt) did tremendous damage to our cricket. What happens the next time a talented young Pakistan bowler/batsmn is caught spot or match fixing? Will we make excuses then as well? Its an endless cycle.

    Bottom line is Amir fans are blinded by his talent. ICC does not owe him a darn thing, he should consider himself lucky he only ended up getting 5 years. Infact if he is ever allowed back, ICC should take away 50 percent or whatever he earns for the rest of his cricketing career. Ideally, however, he shouldn't be selected again.

  38. #38
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    He was not 17 at the time he bowled a no ball.

    Please stop referring to him as a child. He was not a child but a grown man.

  39. #39
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    Why is Spotfixing being equated with treason?

    Sportsmen go through a great deal. When amir finishes his ban, he should be welcomed without any hesitation.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverlion View Post
    Why is Spotfixing being equated with treason?

    Sportsmen go through a great deal. When amir finishes his ban, he should be welcomed without any hesitation.
    yes poor amir, he and his family would have starved if he did not spot fix.

    Lets welcome him back with a red carper and flowers.

    Seriously no hesitation? Do you have any idea how badly another match or spot fixing scandal will damage pak cricket? It will completely destroy our cricket, so there should be plenty of questions asked if he is allowed to play again.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    yes poor amir, he and his family would have starved if he did not spot fix.

    Lets welcome him back with a red carper and flowers.

    Seriously no hesitation? Do you have any idea how badly another match or spot fixing scandal will damage pak cricket? It will completely destroy our cricket, so there should be plenty of questions asked if he is allowed to play again.
    Again, wasn't warne allowed to play again? After he was proven to be a cheat?

    Once a person serves his sentence, he is a normal person.

    Pakistanis have a habit of being too critical sometimes.

  42. #42
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    PakPassion.net: Some fans perhaps in their eternal optimism believe that Mohammad Amir’s ban could be reduced from 5 years. Can you clarify if this is possible or not and thus end the speculation?

    Dave Richardson: Under the ICC Anti-Corruption Code the minimum ban is 5 years and at this stage there is no plan to change that minimum sanction.
    In other words, he does'nt know!

    I suspect if CAS finds in favour of Asif, by canceling or even reducing Asif's ban, the ICC will be under tremendous pressure to also reduce Amir's ban.

    Conversely, if CAS finds in favour of the ICC and Asif's ban remains unchanged, then the ICC cannot be seen as being lenient on Amir and thus Amir's ban will also remain unchanged.

    Amir's fate is tied to the CAS decision regarding Asif.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  43. #43
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    children only learn from their mistakes for god sake he was only 19 and most important he was trapped at least he has admitted it and regrets it he should be given a chance

    if somebody in your household did this you would be the first to forgive and forget

  44. #44
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    Good me thinks .

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    He was a great talent but i dont think he will be competitive by the time his ban ends so lets forget him he reuned his career

  46. #46
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    Pakistani fans here should take a chill pill and stop acting so self righteous. He was given a sentence by the ICC and a court of law which is 5 years. He should serve that sentence or a sentence the ICC deems fit and reduces due to mitigating circumstances. After that he is free to play domestic cricket, prove his form, fitness and if good enough can make a comeback on merit.

  47. #47
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    Its not about being self righteous. Yes he was given a sentence for 5 years but it does not mean he has to be (or should be) selected. If you have a business and your accountant stole from the business, would you really give him another chance? No you wouldn't

    If it was a 19 year old Ata-Ur-Rehman, no body would be making the nonsense excuses they are for Amir. Contrary to what his fans claim, he was not "trapped", he willingly accepted money to cheat and embarassed his country at international level. He also had allegedly connections to Indian bookies. If he did have any connection to Indian bookies, he should never be allowed to set foot in any cricket stadium again. If the Salman Butt saga was the only time he fixed, you may be able to make a case for him. Maybe, but if he had links to other bookies, he should never be allowed to play.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    Its not about being self righteous. Yes he was given a sentence for 5 years but it does not mean he has to be (or should be) selected. If you have a business and your accountant stole from the business, would you really give him another chance? No you wouldn't

    If it was a 19 year old Ata-Ur-Rehman, no body would be making the nonsense excuses they are for Amir. Contrary to what his fans claim, he was not "trapped", he willingly accepted money to cheat and embarassed his country at international level. He also had allegedly connections to Indian bookies. If he did have any connection to Indian bookies, he should never be allowed to set foot in any cricket stadium again. If the Salman Butt saga was the only time he fixed, you may be able to make a case for him. Maybe, but if he had links to other bookies, he should never be allowed to play.
    You should give up convincing dude.

    This nation has a habit of supporting cheats. Jo Zardari ko elect kar saktay hein , wo Amir ko bi bula saktay hein.

    Having said that, I deem that his punishment should be never to play for country again.

    But I wouldn't stop him from playing county and Premier Leagues. That's his right after he completes his ban.

    I've been tired telling everyone, that by not letting him play for Pakistan, they would be setting an example.

    But no one seems to listen. Sab aik jaisay hein iss mulk mein : )


    AA Tujh Ko Bata'on Main TAQDEER E UMAM Kiya Hai

    Shamsheer o Sanaa Awal, Ta'oos o Rubab Aakhir

  49. #49
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    aap bilkul sahi baat kar rahee ho. The blind obsession with talent will lead to another spot fixing scandal.

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    you can cry as much as you want once his ban is over he is available and may even be selected if he's still fit and there's restriction by ICC say's Zaka Ashraf

    so what you think does not mean anything you can stress and cry over it as much as you want

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3H8zPdufoM

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    Its not about being self righteous. Yes he was given a sentence for 5 years but it does not mean he has to be (or should be) selected. If you have a business and your accountant stole from the business, would you really give him another chance? No you wouldn't.
    But then you would'nt say "you are going to be banned from the company and the job for 5 years", and after he's served his ban, then turn around and say "we've changed our minds, you're banned permanently".

    You would tell him right at the outset that he was banned permanently.

    So your accountant analogy is a load of tripe,


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  52. #52
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    i am not crying. I am merely predicting another such scandal in a decade because of the same idiots who support Amir, those who supported Asif and previous cheats.

    and Zaka Ashraf is an idiot.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    i am not crying. I am merely predicting another such scandal in a decade because of the same idiots who support Amir, those who supported Asif and previous cheats.

    and Zaka Ashraf is an idiot.
    Perhaps so.

    But you're making yourself look like an idiot by thinking that the PCB or ICC could legally ban him permanently once they've already imposed a 5 year ban.

    The ICC could choose to decrease it due to, say, if CAS reduced Asif's ban and the ICC were forced to review their whole sanctions process, but they cannot increase his 5 year ban, that is unless Amir transgresses again.

    Try and understand this basic concept and you would'nt look so foolish.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  54. #54
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    i am not foolish. the only foolish people are Amir fans.

    my suggestion of increasing his ban was a sarcastic response to those who wanted his ban reduced. And my point is that he should not be picked again.

    The only fools are Amir fans who want special treatment for him because of his so called talent.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    i am not foolish. the only foolish people are Amir fans.

    my suggestion of increasing his ban was a sarcastic response to those who wanted his ban reduced. And my point is that he should not be picked again.

    The only fools are Amir fans who want special treatment for him because of his so called talent.
    If he was'nt, after he's served his ban and proven himself on the domestic circuit, and he could prove to a court that his subsequent ommission was purely down to the spot-fixing saga for which he has already served his ban, then the PCB management would be deep sh1t.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    i am not crying. I am merely predicting another such scandal in a decade because of the same idiots who support Amir, those who supported Asif and previous cheats.

    and Zaka Ashraf is an idiot.
    Sir Zaka Ashraf is respectively the Chairman of PCB (Pakistani Cricket Board Just In case You Didn't Know) compare to him your nobody
    so it does not matter what you want or think he is the person who makes the decisions

    Which Makes you Look Like An Idiot so Before Calling Me Or Amir's Fans Idiots Think About It

  57. #57
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    so what if he is the chairman of PCB? PCB is an incompetent board, being the chairman of such a board is not something to be proud of.

    Amir fans are unquestionable idiots, and you are the idiot over here, not me. Keep supporting the disgrace and enjoy more of such scandals in the future.

  58. #58
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    It Is Something To Be Proud Of Because You Can Only Chat **** On Forums & Make you Self Look Like An Idiot Where As ZaKa Does Not Need To Come On Forums & Rant He Can Put What He Wants In Practice

    Some Advice IF I Were You I Wouldnt Type Back You've Made Your Self Look Like A Right Pratt
    If you Have Any Self Respect Let It Go & Accept The Fact PCB Is Your Father & ICC Is your Grandfather & They Make The Decisions & Not You!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhhdmt View Post
    so what if he is the chairman of PCB? PCB is an incompetent board, being the chairman of such a board is not something to be proud of.
    But you would still take the job if offerred to you?


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
    If he was'nt, after he's served his ban and proven himself on the domestic circuit, and he could prove to a court that his subsequent ommission was purely down to the spot-fixing saga for which he has already served his ban, then the PCB management would be deep sh1t.
    Jadeja was not selected by BCCI in any form of the game after his ban got over. How can a court decide who gets selected? Tomorrow can a domestic bully sue PCB for not picking him after scoring a few 100s in domestic circuit?


    Amla is my role-model - cars112

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    Difference is Aamir was punished.

    Jailtime, Taken away his financial gain means and Taken away his passion for 5 years, Shame and Insults for the rest of his life.

    For what? 5000 thousand rupees. 50 euros. The price of the latest ICC game. The price my meal yesterday. The price I paid my cable company to watch Aamir Bowl.

    I don't wish that to the worse of my ennemies and the judgement is clearly too harsh given his youth and how manipulable he was (otherwise, how could he sell his career for 50 euros?)
    You must be naive to believe in the 50 euro theory.


    "This one doesn't take the cake, it takes the bakery" - Gavaskar

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Jadeja was not selected by BCCI in any form of the game after his ban got over. How can a court decide who gets selected? Tomorrow can a domestic bully sue PCB for not picking him after scoring a few 100s in domestic circuit?
    You miss the point, which is not unusual for you.

    It's one thing for the selectors to overlook a player for cricketing reasons, but totally different to omitting a player due to reasons of additional punishment once he's served his original punishment.

    If a player can prove that it's due to the latter and not the former, then he has a legal case and will likely sue.

    As to how he can prove that, there are many different ways. For example, if selectors (who change on a frequent basis) are regularly instructed to ignore the player, then either there will be some written documentation stating that, or if verbal instructions, then at some stage, at least one of those many selectors can be subphoened to confirm or deny receiving such instructions.

    Remember, if the team was performing badly, then the selectors are under pressure, with some of those being fired. It just takes one of them to blab, perhaps as revenge against some in the PCB, and confirm that the player was excluded due to the spot-fixing saga, after the player had already served his punishment, then the player has a very good case.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  63. #63
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    ^^ Exactly who is saying that punishment is gonna absolve the person a 100% ?
    A person does the time cuz of violating a rule/law. Not to get a clean chit for afterwards.

    Any person going to prison looses his/her credibility precisely due to this.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by spaceshot View Post
    ^^ Exactly who is saying that punishment is gonna absolve the person a 100% ?
    A person does the time cuz of violating a rule/law. Not to get a clean chit for afterwards.

    Any person going to prison looses his/her credibility precisely due to this.
    Forget the semantics. It's got nothing to do with 'absolving' and 'credibility', but about 'punishment meted out' and the situation once that punishment has been served.

    If the authorities, in this case both the ICC and the UK legal system, punish a player for wrongdoings, then the player can also resort to legal recourse if he can prove that he's being punished again, for a wrongdoing for which he's already been punished and he's served that punishment.

    As things stand, the UK legals system's punishment has already been served by serving the jail sentences. Once the ICC bans are completed, then that punishment would also have been served.

    Any other punishment, such as a new permanent ban, would be seen as additional punishment. If he can prove that to be the case (as shown in my previous post), then he can sue.


    Anything else is childish and wishful thinking by those who don't understand the concept of punishment and how it is/can/should be applied.
    Last edited by Yossarian; 18th March 2013 at 15:31.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
    You miss the point, which is not unusual for you.

    It's one thing for the selectors to overlook a player for cricketing reasons, but totally different to omitting a player due to reasons of additional punishment once he's served his original punishment.

    If a player can prove that it's due to the latter and not the former, then he has a legal case and will likely sue.

    As to how he can prove that, there are many different ways. For example, if selectors (who change on a frequent basis) are regularly instructed to ignore the player, then either there will be some written documentation stating that, or if verbal instructions, then at some stage, at least one of those many selectors can be subphoened to confirm or deny receiving such instructions.

    Remember, if the team was performing badly, then the selectors are under pressure, with some of those being fired. It just takes one of them to blab, perhaps as revenge against some in the PCB, and confirm that the player was excluded due to the spot-fixing saga, after the player had already served his punishment, then the player has a very good case.
    I don't know about PCB and Pakistan, but I can't see BCCI losing a very important case against an Indian player, especially one who has played only one or two years for the team. BCCI have the money power to hire a hundred top most lawyers and place before your penniless self and that will be the end of the story.


    "This one doesn't take the cake, it takes the bakery" - Gavaskar

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianWillow View Post
    I don't know about PCB and Pakistan, but I can't see BCCI losing a very important case against an Indian player, especially one who has played only one or two years for the team. BCCI have the money power to hire a hundred top most lawyers and place before your penniless self and that will be the end of the story.
    Depends upon who is the Indian the player. Can you imagine anyone within BCCI trying to punish, say, SRT ?
    Lets say SRT had a row with Duncan Fletcher, can you imagine the BCCI doing what the Aussies did?

    Some players in India are Untouchable. Unfortunately in the opposite sence to their caste system!


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  67. #67
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    This pig-headed fool Mohammad Amir should be put behind bars for at least 15 years for what he has done

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
    You miss the point, which is not unusual for you.

    It's one thing for the selectors to overlook a player for cricketing reasons, but totally different to omitting a player due to reasons of additional punishment once he's served his original punishment.

    If a player can prove that it's due to the latter and not the former, then he has a legal case and will likely sue.

    As to how he can prove that, there are many different ways. For example, if selectors (who change on a frequent basis) are regularly instructed to ignore the player, then either there will be some written documentation stating that, or if verbal instructions, then at some stage, at least one of those many selectors can be subphoened to confirm or deny receiving such instructions.

    Remember, if the team was performing badly, then the selectors are under pressure, with some of those being fired. It just takes one of them to blab, perhaps as revenge against some in the PCB, and confirm that the player was excluded due to the spot-fixing saga, after the player had already served his punishment, then the player has a very good case.
    My point still remains, there is no way a player can prove he is being kept out because of things other than his performance. Lots of domestic players are simply not chosen despite domestic performances

    Isnt PCB a private company? Also most private firms will exclude people who have criminal records. Let anyone with a criminal record try to approach a firm and get refused, then try to sue and win. Not a chance

    BTW, werent you sure there wasnt evidence against the trio for them to be banned by ICC? Then you were sure they wouldnt go to jail? What happened there?

    Now you are sure CAS will be lenient against them and also that he will play after his ban. Lets wait and see
    Last edited by Indiafan; 18th March 2013 at 16:55.


    Amla is my role-model - cars112

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    Originally Posted by Javelin
    You miss the point, which is not unusual for you.

    It's one thing for the selectors to overlook a player for cricketing reasons, but totally different to omitting a player due to reasons of additional punishment once he's served his original punishment.

    If a player can prove that it's due to the latter and not the former, then he has a legal case and will likely sue.

    As to how he can prove that, there are many different ways. For example, if selectors (who change on a frequent basis) are regularly instructed to ignore the player, then either there will be some written documentation stating that, or if verbal instructions, then at some stage, at least one of those many selectors can be subphoened to confirm or deny receiving such instructions.

    Remember, if the team was performing badly, then the selectors are under pressure, with some of those being fired. It just takes one of them to blab, perhaps as revenge against some in the PCB, and confirm that the player was excluded due to the spot-fixing saga
    , after the player had already served his punishment, then the player has a very good case
    My point still remains, there is no way a player can prove he is being kept out because of things other than his performance. Lots of domestic players are simply not chosen despite domestic performances
    You either cannot read properly or you have trouble understanding what you have read.

    Just read my post again, especially the part highlighted in bold since you keep missing the point.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Javelin View Post
    Depends upon who is the Indian the player. Can you imagine anyone within BCCI trying to punish, say, SRT ?
    Lets say SRT had a row with Duncan Fletcher, can you imagine the BCCI doing what the Aussies did?

    Some players in India are Untouchable. Unfortunately in the opposite sence to their caste system!
    SRT is a billionaire. And has massive fan support. He has the muscle power to face BCCI on an equal footing.

    In the hypothetical scenario of SRT being found and banned for fixing, he will loose all support in India. I can't speak for every Sachin fan, but generally no Sachin fan will ever want him back in the team, not even after the official ban is over. The massive support you see here for Amir will not be seen in India. SRT is untouchable because people know him as a honest, dedicated cricketer. His untouchability is founded on certain moral reasons. All those would go to dust if he is known to be a fixer, and he would no longer be untouchable.


    "This one doesn't take the cake, it takes the bakery" - Gavaskar

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianwillow View Post
    srt is a billionaire. And has massive fan support. He has the muscle power to face bcci on an equal footing.

    In the hypothetical scenario of srt being found and banned for fixing, he will loose all support in india. I can't speak for every sachin fan, but generally no sachin fan will ever want him back in the team, not even after the official ban is over. The massive support you see here for amir will not be seen in india. Srt is untouchable because people know him as a honest, dedicated cricketer. His untouchability is founded on certain moral reasons. All those would go to dust if he is known to be a fixer, and he would no longer be untouchable.
    Name:  srt selectors.jpg
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    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecstatic_freak View Post
    Only five years? why not a life ban? Why stop here, lets hang him to satisfy few self righteous fans !!
    Sorry its attitudes like this that the country is going to ruin.

    the acceptance of small transgression in the greater good leads to even bigger ones.

    As much as I enjoyed him ripping through the opponents, I would rather have a slow trundler playing with integrity every single time over corrupt and self interested players any day.

    It speaks volume of those in power that Butt is allowed nearer anything to do with cricket in Pakistan

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianWillow View Post
    SRT is a billionaire. And has massive fan support. He has the muscle power to face BCCI on an equal footing.

    In the hypothetical scenario of SRT being found and banned for fixing, he will loose all support in India. I can't speak for every Sachin fan, but generally no Sachin fan will ever want him back in the team, not even after the official ban is over. The massive support you see here for Amir will not be seen in India. SRT is untouchable because people know him as a honest, dedicated cricketer. His untouchability is founded on certain moral reasons. All those would go to dust if he is known to be a fixer, and he would no longer be untouchable.
    how do u know this? You are guessing that he wont be accepted back.

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    Let's see if the result of Asif's appeal has any impact on Amir.



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