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  1. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by style_guru View Post
    It's not the batsmen's fault that Steyn/Phil emerged of late. A batsman can only score against the bowlers he faces.
    But it's unfair to the batsmen who do


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  2. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    Yeah, my point is using batsmens stats prior to the Steyn-Philander combo is hardly a good base to compare players performances in SA. The stats prior to Steyn-Philander will obviously look better.
    They would, because back then there was an Australian team that beat South Africa in South Africa on a regular basis up until 2009, a stronger Pakistan, and a Lara-led West Indian batting, among others. Still, Donald, Ntini and Pollock were no mugs.

    Philander's had it really lucky so far into his career, with respect to the conditions he's continually playing in, and the standard of opposition of late. Pretty sure he couldn't dismiss Australia circa 2006 for 47, Newlands or not. Nor can he right now in Australia itself, for he averages 49 there, for a single wicket.

    That's what I'm claiming, let's see him roll his wrists in harsh territory for once.

  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    They would, because back then there was an Australian team that beat South Africa in South Africa on a regular basis up until 2009, a stronger Pakistan, and a Lara-led West Indian batting, among others. Still, Donald, Ntini and Pollock were no mugs.

    Philander's had it really lucky so far into his career, with respect to the conditions he's continually playing in, and the standard of opposition of late. Pretty sure he couldn't dismiss Australia circa 2006 for 47, Newlands or not. Nor can he right now in Australia itself, for he averages 49 there, for a single wicket.

    That's what I'm claiming, let's see him roll his wrists in harsh territory for once.
    I think you're underestimating how good Philander really is, his accuracy is his real strength and as long as he keeps it tight early on he will be successful in the UAE.
    Last edited by Aman; 26th July 2013 at 12:26.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  4. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by style_guru View Post
    When every fast bowler struggles in UAE, I would not be surprised if Phil struggles there too. And by using the same logic, why don't we gauge a batsman's success by only taking his performances in England, or say SA as these two places are considered to be a tad difficult to bat in comparison to other places?
    That's already being done on this forum. Every thread on a potential batsman from the sub-continent fixates on a holding status until he performs in Australia and South Africa for whatever reason. Until they do so, they're not regarded as good batsmen. Pujara for now is therefore an FTB, but Root rocks because he's scored runs in England. Likewise, any discussion on Kohli uses his Adelaide century as a pivot, disregarding the fact that he arguably scored a more difficult ton against decent Kiwi seamers in Bangalore in 2012.

    Which is why it's fair to see how Philander goes outside of the 40-odd all-out venue. The failure in Australia is not a good sign in this regard.
    Last edited by Varun; 26th July 2013 at 12:28.

  5. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    But it's unfair to the batsmen who do
    Actually it's unfair to degrade a batsman's performances prior to Steyn/Phil. We can only speculate as to how they would've fared against these two bowlers.

    But again each to his own.


    The day d last tree died, d last river poisond & d last fish caught,we'll realize we can't eat money

  6. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    I think you're underestimating how good Philander really is, his accuracy is his real strength and as long as he keeps it tight early on he will be successful in the UAE.
    Not really, solely keeping it tight in Asia will get you smashed, and especially at 128ks. His best bet is to hope for the superior Steyn to knock off the top-order (Hafeez and co.) and look to build the pressure in the meantime as a sort of a fill-in bowler. The pitch will offer him nothing unless he decides to switch to spin, so that's what he's going to have to do.

    Then again, even Kulasekara has dismantled Pakistan's test line-up on a regular basis so you can't write him off completely I suppose.

  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    That's already being done on this forum. Every thread on a potential batsman from the sub-continent fixates on a holding status until he performs in Australia and South Africa for whatever reason. Until they do so, they're not regarded as good batsmen. Pujara for now is therefore an FTB, but Root rocks because he's scored runs in England. Likewise, any discussion on Kohli uses his Adelaide century as a pivot, disregarding the fact that he arguably scored a more difficult ton against decent Kiwi seamers in Bangalore in 2012.

    Which is why it's fair to see how Philander goes outside of the 40-odd all-out venue. The failure in Australia is not a good sign in this regard.
    And that's exactly what you are trying to suggest by saying that his performances in UAE should be the benchmark for success. But ideally we need to take the overall performances and then try to judge a player. But since this thread is about Shikhar, I'll pack my bags from here regarding Philander for now. We can always have a discussion in the relevent thread:kami


    The day d last tree died, d last river poisond & d last fish caught,we'll realize we can't eat money

  8. #568
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    I was never his fan, But i think he goin through a purple patch. lets see how consistent he is. He is careless at times. But sehwag was careless every time
    Last edited by TonyStark; 26th July 2013 at 15:03.

  9. #569
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    Dhawan does attacks every ball..... He is relentless..... I like that attitude.

  10. #570
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    5 centuries this year. Dhawan is on a roll. Filling the void created by Sehwag and Gambhir. Hatsoff.

  11. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by bin_pendi_ka_lota View Post
    Dhawan does attacks every ball..... He is relentless..... I like that attitude.
    thats what scares me as that usually fails more often than not in SA. If his best defence is to attack then he is in trouble.

  12. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    Damp English conditions don't count, even Anderson looks good out there. Like I said, the 2 or 3 tests in the UAE will test his mettle. Pity he'll be bowling to Shafiq and Adnan Akmal and people like that and not Sangakkara or Sehwag but I guess it'll have to do.
    Jimmy averaged 40 in the same series though. I'm not sure about the "damp" conditions you're talking about.

    He ripped through New Zealand on flat and yellow wickets too. If you think conditions were conducive go look @what the English bowlers averaged there

  13. #573
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Vijay is arguably a more technically proficient batsman. He has a good defence. Unfortunately, the guy hits idiotic shots to get out. I remember him weathering Steyn and Morkel on a Day 1 Durban pitch for 15 overs or so and then hit a totally ridiculous shot to get out in an attempt to "assert his dominance". If he realizes that in SAF and sometimes England and Oz, you gotta weather the storm even for a whole day sometimes and cash in on poor deliveries, then he should change his fortunes out of SC.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  14. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Vijay is arguably a more technically proficient batsman. He has a good defence. Unfortunately, the guy hits idiotic shots to get out. I remember him weathering Steyn and Morkel on a Day 1 Durban pitch for 15 overs or so and then hit a totally ridiculous shot to get out in an attempt to "assert his dominance". If he realizes that in SAF and sometimes England and Oz, you gotta weather the storm even for a whole day sometimes and cash in on poor deliveries, then he should change his fortunes out of SC.
    lol whats a guy to do

  15. #575
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    lol whats a guy to do
    Lol true but still you should see that you are not playing Vinay Kumar but Dale Steyn and show some control. This isn't Guys gone wild: cricket edition. Idiot tried to drive an inswinging yorker against Pattinson and predictably got bowled.

    On topic: Dhawan's test SR is 100+ and T20I strike rate is below 50


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  16. #576
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    178 off 122 balls and still batting

  17. #577
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    195
    Superb batting

  18. #578
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    200 now...

  19. #579
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    200, this kid is something...


    "Everything else seems so superfluous." ~ Albert Einstein on the Bhagavad-Gita

  20. #580
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    What a beast! 250 on the cards!


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  21. #581
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    Unfortunately there is no live coverage

  22. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexjohn_tcr View Post
    Unfortunately there is no live coverage
    Mate it's pretty much a club game Maxwell made 150 the other day.. Dhawans been impressive regardless but you need to take this performance with a grain of salt.


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  23. #583
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    Absolutely.still 200 plus is something

  24. #584
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    out for 248, say what you want about standards but its still a once in a lifetime performance


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  25. #585
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    great innings but he shouldnt have been on the tour.was MOS in CT


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  26. #586
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    Lol....248 in an ODI game...whatever the stage it is brilliant...

    and it is South Africa A , not a club side.

  27. #587
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    many of the people here will downgrade his performance out of spite. Many in this forum went nuts when Khalid Latif made a double ton in List A


    "Last time Uganda toured Canada, half their team ran away to start a new life" - cricfan967

  28. #588
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    its doesnt matter if its a list A match.... he made a very good 248.... very very well done.

  29. #589
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    let's see if he can continue this form against Steyn n co.
    class innings though


    Tazimi Sirdar

  30. #590
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    Dhawan is a beast..

  31. #591
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    he will fail when he bats against steyn/morkel/philander.

  32. #592
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    @topic

    When a batsman scores on a home track they say "Home track bully:

    When a batsman scores on a on foreign pitches they say " Its A team"

    Next what?

  33. #593
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    Wow this is absolutely amazing. I can't believe ANYONE is downplaying this achievement. This is world class and I hope we could see highlights. Definitely your Sehwag

  34. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Wow this is absolutely amazing. I can't believe ANYONE is downplaying this achievement. This is world class and I hope we could see highlights. Definitely your Sehwag
    no video coverage:kami


    Tazimi Sirdar

  35. #595
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    Unbelievable. Top ODI knock regardless of the context.


    "This one doesn't take the cake, it takes the bakery" - Gavaskar

  36. #596
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    I cant believe when i read this.. this is too much in ODI format

  37. #597
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    Not downplaying his achievement, but wait a while..... South Africa A 84/0 (8.0 ov) so far.

    This is a roady road.

  38. #598
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    The whole series has been played on absolute roads. Batsmen playing freak innings.
    Don't see the point of the series. Regardless, you still need to score the runs.

  39. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy_K View Post
    The whole series has been played on absolute roads. Batsmen playing freak innings.
    Don't see the point of the series. Regardless, you still need to score the runs.
    I thought Maxwell getting 150 in the last 20 overs was odd...


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  40. #600
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    Shikhar Dhawan

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryin Out Loud View Post
    Not downplaying his achievement, but wait a while..... South Africa A 84/0 (8.0 ov) so far.

    This is a roady road.
    Road or not- It still takes a monumental effort & skill to score 248 in a ODI.

  41. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by TM Riddle View Post
    let's see if he can continue this form against Steyn n co.
    class innings though
    You watched It..???


    "Beware of this world, for it is sweet and tempting.

  42. #602
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    Flat pitch or not you just don't get people scoring 250 in 50 overs.


    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

  43. #603
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    Brilliant for Dhawan. 248 in limited overs cricket, flat pitch or not, is not a joke. That's some serious scoring. Has a bright future ahead.

  44. #604
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    Great stuff, but what is he doing playing for the A team. Maybe Experience I guess.


    If winning isn't everything, why do they keep score?
    Vince Lombardi

  45. #605
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    Fantastic player!


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  46. #606
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    great knock today.

  47. #607
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Lol insane knock. Flat pitch or not the guy murdered the bowlers. Is this his peak or another milestone in a journey towards bigger achievements?


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  48. #608
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    Brilliant today from Dhawan :-)

  49. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Lol insane knock. Flat pitch or not the guy murdered the bowlers. Is this his peak or another milestone in a journey towards bigger achievements?
    Only time can tell.

    Hopefully its just a milestone in his journey.

  50. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by asifp View Post
    Great stuff, but what is he doing playing for the A team. Maybe Experience I guess.
    Not a bad Indian batting line up if you look at the scorecard. The idea - IMO- was to send some of our batsmen to get SA experience before the Test series that's coming up.

    Good idea in theory, but unfortunately they've played on what sound like roads! Come the real games, and I'm sure the pitches will be different.

  51. #611
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    Can't get over how few 6s he hits. Remarkable timer of the ball.

    Interestingly enough, the record holder, Ali Brown did it in a match for Surrey about 10 years ago. They must have scored 450 I think. But what is interesting is that Glamorgan only lost by 9 runs or so. Who was their top scorer? Robert Croft.
    Last edited by Gigii; 12th August 2013 at 16:23.


    It's not the failures, the heartbreak or the losses that hurt. It's the hope.

  52. #612
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Now hope he score runs in the five day games.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
    aap ne naam to liyā merā
    -----Jaun Eliya

  53. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by asifp View Post
    Great stuff, but what is he doing playing for the A team. Maybe Experience I guess.
    Indian selectors were hoping that guys like Dhawan, Pujara n Rohith would get some much needed exposure to bouncy SA wickets before the upcoming test series.. But SA trolled BCCI big time by preparing concrete roads and denying them any exp..

  54. #614
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    'Dhawan butchered us' - South Africa A captain

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/southafr...ry/661903.html

  55. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaguarjack View Post
    Indian selectors were hoping that guys like Dhawan, Pujara n Rohith would get some much needed exposure to bouncy SA wickets before the upcoming test series.. But SA trolled BCCI big time by preparing concrete roads and denying them any exp..
    Let's hope the 4 day matches provide stiffer challenges..

  56. #616
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    248 in 150 balls is unbelievable knock

  57. #617
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    No Fantastic 5 no gauti no yuvi still one of the best batting lineup

  58. #618
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    I would not get carried away as this game was bowled at a local club facility with very short boundaries, not to mention the AIRSTRIP. Definately not an international standard ground.

    Conditions in December will be completely different. But hey well played
    Last edited by soso_killer; 12th August 2013 at 20:23.

  59. #619
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    Cricket South Africa are very clever.
    The 1st class games should be played in East London (Buffalo Park), Paarl, Bloemfontain the driest conditions in the country absolute concreite slabs, maybe Port Elizabeth too (low and slow) and will suit them but no Test will be played in the venue come December anyway.
    Dont give them games in Pretoria, Cape Town and Jo'burg.

  60. #620
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    Wholy FOOK!! 248!!

  61. #621
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    Cricket South Africa are very clever.
    The 1st class games should be played in East London (Buffalo Park), Paarl, Bloemfontain the driest conditions in the country absolute concreite slabs, maybe Port Elizabeth too (low and slow) and will suit them but no Test will be played in the venue come December anyway.
    Dont give them games in Pretoria, Cape Town and Jo'burg.


    Yes there are already rumours going in Indian Media that CSA is deliberately playing the matches on flat tracks to devoid Indian batsmen of practice on green wickets.Of its indeed deliberate.and combined with Lorgat.as CSA.head the relation is headed for a nose dive.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
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  62. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yes there are already rumours going in Indian Media that CSA is deliberately playing the matches on flat tracks to devoid Indian batsmen of practice on green wickets.Of its indeed deliberate.and combined with Lorgat.as CSA.head the relation is headed for a nose dive.
    its common practise though and its been done on plenty of occasions by other boards and countries too. Cricket South Africa did not organise a tour match for the next tour of India as they would out dish roads themselves. Instead they organised a two match series against Bangladesh prior to the Indian tour which makes perfect sense. 10 days to bat and bowl in turning tracks and then fly straight to India.

    Re: Lorgat there is not a damn thing the BCCI can do about it other than moan. CSA have made it clear that they wont be bullied by the BCCI, we're not Australia or England
    Last edited by soso_killer; 12th August 2013 at 20:34.

  63. #623
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    Well done good innings


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  64. #624
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    its common practise though and its been done on plenty of occasions by other boards and countries too. Cricket South Africa did not organise a tour match for the next tour of India as they would out dish roads themselves. Instead they organised a two match series against Bangladesh prior to the Indian tour which makes perfect sense. 10 days to bat and bowl in turning tracks and then fly straight to India.

    Re: Lorgat there is not a damn thing the BCCI can do about it other than moan. CSA have made it clear that they wont be bullied by the BCCI, we're not Australia or England


    BCCI can do a lot of things.Media reports say BCCI will only play 2 tests 3 ODIs and 1 T 20.The minimum required by FTP conditions.How much will reducing the tour by almost half effect the finances of CSA that i dont know.

    CSA will get what it will dish out to India.They were friendly with BCCI and BCCI reciprocated the same way.And considering the election scenario i doubt the Indiam govt. will want to be seen as capitulating under any foreign pressure even Mandela.

    Any ways all these are rumours and few experts said that this is winter in SA so tracks are like this and there may be better tracka for the 4 day games.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
    aap ne naam to liyā merā
    -----Jaun Eliya

  65. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    BCCI can do a lot of things.Media reports say BCCI will only play 2 tests 3 ODIs and 1 T 20.The minimum required by FTP conditions.How much will reducing the tour by almost half effect the finances of CSA that i dont know.

    CSA will get what it will dish out to India.They were friendly with BCCI and BCCI reciprocated the same way.And considering the election scenario i doubt the Indiam govt. will want to be seen as capitulating under any foreign pressure even Mandela.

    Any ways all these are rumours and few experts said that this is winter in SA so tracks are like this and there may be better tracka for the 4 day games.
    yeah its winter here and we are not gonna damage some of our best tracks. Also its hard to prepare and water a pitch as rain could come at anytime during the winter, to much moisture will make conditions dangerous for bowlers in the landing area.

    Again i dont believe the BCCI will do a damn thing, it would be great if they cancel the ODI's though. 7 is just an overkill.

    By the way the Indian government does not report to the BCCI, they would not have been pleased by spot fixing during the IPL either. But lets not derail this thread

  66. #626
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    yeah its winter here and we are not gonna damage some of our best tracks. Also its hard to prepare and water a pitch as rain could come at anytime during the winter, to much moisture will make conditions dangerous for bowlers in the landing area.

    Again i dont believe the BCCI will do a damn thing, it would be great if they cancel the ODI's though. 7 is just an overkill.

    By the way the Indian government does not report to the BCCI, they would not have been pleased by spot fixing during the IPL either. But lets not derail this thread


    So indeed it is right that these pitches are due to weather condition and not some CSA consipracy headed by Lorgat.Thanka for the info.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
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  67. #627
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    great inning but where are the real SA wickets?after playing on this pitches,Pujara Dhawan will feel nervous batting back in Indian ptches

  68. #628
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    Whats the point of sending an experienced test & ODI opener to bully domestic bowlers? Dhawan flopped in WI averaging 27 odd against international bowlers....

  69. #629
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    Re: Shikhar Dhawan

    Quote Originally Posted by Eye_Done View Post
    Whats the point of sending an experienced test & ODI opener to bully domestic bowlers? Dhawan flopped in WI averaging 27 odd against international bowlers....
    Hello

    How are you?May be you missed that Dhawan avgs 40 plus in ODIs.Chalo aage badho.
    Last edited by cricketjoshila; 13th August 2013 at 01:45.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
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  70. #630
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    dhawan wants to score a limited overs 300 now :dhawan - http://www.espncricinfo.com/india/co...ry/661977.html

  71. #631
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    Before they slaughter the lamb, lol.. good trick sa.

  72. #632
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    Great achievement, regardless of the bowlers and conditions, this is a tremendous effort by Dhawan.

  73. #633
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    Just when I thought we won't have to worry about Sehwag anymore, this guy Dhawan could be even more dangerous ..... damn !!!!!!

  74. #634
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    del

  75. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye_Done View Post
    Whats the point of sending an experienced test & ODI opener to bully domestic bowlers? Dhawan flopped in WI averaging 27 odd against international bowlers....

    Thats the avg of most Pakistani Batsman in all matches

  76. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonystark View Post
    thats the avg of most pakistani batsman in all matches

  77. #637
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    It takes a beast to deliver in such manner, Dhawan really is a special one.

  78. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by soso_killer View Post
    its common practise though and its been done on plenty of occasions by other boards and countries too. Cricket South Africa did not organise a tour match for the next tour of India as they would out dish roads themselves. Instead they organised a two match series against Bangladesh prior to the Indian tour which makes perfect sense. 10 days to bat and bowl in turning tracks and then fly straight to India.

    Re: Lorgat there is not a damn thing the BCCI can do about it other than moan. CSA have made it clear that they wont be bullied by the BCCI, we're not Australia or England
    actually South Africa does this rather frequently. not that one can point a finger here, this is all to the advantage of the home team and little argument can be made against such a move. i recall the notorious tour of 1996-97 when in the first test match india were handed a drubbing (after scoring 100 and 66), the previous, tour games were played on the slowest roads (port elizabeth) before heading straight to durban.

    the hospitality in south africa is peculiarly poor, from the hostile crowds, the aggressive players and at times ridiculous umpiring. one gets the feeling that south africa is extracting vengeance; a sort of 'frack you!' to the touring team for when south africa toured them, they were subject to spin and turning pitches which the south africans dont have the resources to exploit.

  79. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iqbal6 View Post
    he will fail when he bats against ...
    Such posts makes one wonder if they recently learnt english and got itchy to string a sentence on a forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryin Out Loud View Post
    Not a bad Indian batting line up if you look at the scorecard. The idea - IMO- was to send some of our batsmen to get SA experience before the Test series that's coming up.

    Good idea in theory, but unfortunately they've played on what sound like roads! Come the real games, and I'm sure the pitches will be different.
    What are you on about?
    Any good score in a country where you are about to play will give you confidence. Whether the pitch/conditions are same or not, one doest forgets the fact that you are in the very country where you flourished. Only one factor changed and that is the condition of the pitch. If the batsman is built for it, he ll adjust and more quickly with the confidence due to the score.

    Dhawan is still new after his second stint. He should be made to maintain a certain momentum and exposure to future venues.
    Last edited by spaceshot; 14th August 2013 at 05:59.

  80. #640
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    Another class innings by Dhawan today!!


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