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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    In terms of impact yes but in terms of deliveries, I prefer the spells vs NZ and SL.
    I have seen better from Steyn and MJ

  2. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Hard to be devastating without pace.
    There it is.

    Steyn's best > Anderson's best.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Hard to be devastating without pace.
    McGrath spell at Lords was devastating. Top tier in terms of quality. Jimmy got one?

  4. #484
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    Not quite. Quality swing bowling > devastation caused by pace (other than Akhtar's spells ).

  5. #485
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    McGrath was miles better than Anderson both in terms of stats and in terms of best spells.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    McGrath was miles better than Anderson both in terms of stats and in terms of best spells.
    So is Steyn

  7. #487
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    Don't think so.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If you give me Steyn at his absolute best as well as Anderson, whom to pick will be a hard decision for me. Same cannot be said about any other bowler of this generation compared Steyn.

    I'm a firm believer of the argument that over the course of last 5-6 years, Anderson has been a clear number two.
    Mitchell Johnson. He's been as devastating as Steyn was at his best, but he lacked consistency. And he's done it against the best opposition of his time, which Anderson hasn't done.

  9. #489
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    Haha. McGrath and Steyn are both ATGs and their best is elite level. Jimmy is nowhere close. Only a blind fan hold the opposite view.

  10. #490
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    MJ has bowled more filth than Jimmy will bowl in 9 lives. He has a juggernaut at the moment though.

    Jimmy is far from an ATG while Steyn is one. Jimmy is an English great and his average is very misleading. He is a sub 25 average bowler.

  11. #491
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    Nah his average is reflective of how crap he bowled most of the time. The average didn't come through the roof. It was his performance.

  12. #492
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    Averages are misleading without context. He is much better than most bowlers averaging in his range.

  13. #493
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    nah

  14. #494
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    30.07 now .

  15. #495
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    So Jimmy is a sub 25 averaging bowler stuck in a 30 averaging bowlers body. Can he have an operation for that :Moyo

  16. #496
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    2 big wickets today in a terrific spell of swing bowling under a blue sky, but who cares he averages 30.

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    So Jimmy is a sub 25 averaging bowler stuck in a 30 averaging bowlers body. Can he have an operation for that :Moyo
    I don't think anyone in England cares what his average is. Matter of fact is he has been a decisive bowler for England, has carried their attack for years and played a key role in their rise to the number one rankings in Tests. Still good enough to make telling contributions even though his best is behind him.

    It's the South Africans who seem overly obsessed with averages and all that since it's the only way you can make Kallis look like an ATG. PP also stands for Proteas Puppetry so no wonder Anderson is not rated at all on this forum. The cricketing universe rates him highly.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I don't think anyone in England cares what his average is. Matter of fact is he has been a decisive bowler for England, has carried their attack for years and played a key role in their rise to the number one rankings in Tests. Still good enough to make telling contributions even though his best is behind him.

    It's the South Africans who seem overly obsessed with averages and all that since it's the only way you can make Kallis look like an ATG. PP also stands for Proteas Puppetry so no wonder Anderson is not rated at all on this forum. The cricketing universe rates him highly.
    2010-2012 Anderson was a world class bowler. He had two years which could match up with most Great bowlers. He is a skillfull bowler has a mastery of swing and reverse too. But outside of that two year golden period Anderson has been too inconsistent to be labelled as a true great. Also dont buy that he should be coupled with under 25 avg bowlers. He is in a league below Two Ws Lillee Steyn Ambrose Walsh Hadlee Imran McGrath etc
    He is rated because in this era there is a dearth of consistent top class pacers bar Steyn.

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    I don't think anyone in England cares what his average is. Matter of fact is he has been a decisive bowler for England, has carried their attack for years and played a key role in their rise to the number one rankings in Tests. Still good enough to make telling contributions even though his best is behind him.

    It's the South Africans who seem overly obsessed with averages and all that since it's the only way you can make Kallis look like an ATG. PP also stands for Proteas Puppetry so no wonder Anderson is not rated at all on this forum. The cricketing universe rates him highly.
    Think you need to take your blinkers off and stop hating

    I rate Johnson higher than Jimmeh because at his best, he is as good as Steyn in running through sides. No amount of unmeasurable variables such as "skill" or "talent" can compensate for that. In any event, one has to have skill and talent in order to be devastating.

  20. #500
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    Moeen Ali's peak performance > James Anderson's peak performance.

    6/67 > 5/73


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  21. #501
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    More wickets and less runs conceded doesn't make a performance better. Context matters. Using this logic, Marcus North's peak performance is better than Junaid Khan's.

  22. #502
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    Johnson at the moment is better than Anderson ever was. That's beyond dispute.

  23. #503
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    Steyns spells were better. But if people keep bringing up 6 wickets against a poor batting team can we bring up Jimmy's 6 for 17 against Pakistan that followed his earlier 5 for 54? That was a destructive innings indeed of banana swing.

    But no. He doesn't do destructive spells so much as sustained spells of pressure. His wicket taking is working the batsman out and he is better than Broad at least. Steyn is better no question but hey lots of brilliant bowlers fall below steyn.

  24. #504
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    Jimmy's average is pretty accurate. He took a five-fee now but when was the last time he took a five fer? more than a year ago. He was rubbish in NZ, in Australia, against SA, SL and two test matches against India.. and now he takes some wickets and his stats are misleading. Lot of people easily forget about the bad days of their favourite players and only remember the good days. I have watched Jimmy since his comeback and he doesn't look like a sub 20 bowler. No way. The stats are his performances in numbers and they are accurate. He is not consistent. Our memories let off the filths he bowled but when you go back and look at the numbers, it'll remind you of the filth he bowled most of the time.

    Like I said, I have watched enough of Anderson to judge him and don't need numbers to tell you he is a decent bowler. Nothing more.

  25. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post

    There hasn't be one individual bowler better than Anderson (other than Steyn) for a considerable period of time due to XYZ reasons up until now with the likes of Harris and Johnson emerging with Southee and Boult improving a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil_cric View Post
    I agree that pace bowling stocks have been at an all time low. Its just that Anderson's consistent world class run was in the period I mentioned. .
    If you guys are saying that before Harris and others emerged, Anderson was comfortably the second best then I don't agree. Zaheer's best 5 years was as good as Anderson's best 4 years and it was in the same time period. I intentionally took only 4 years for Anderson here otherwise his average will go higher for 5 year period in his career.

    • Zaheer : 2007-2011 ---- 36 tests, 7 5-fers, 1 10-fers avg 27.47 & SR 51
    • Anderson:2008-2011 -- 43 tests, 8 5-fers, 1 10-fer avg 27.56 & SR 54

    And here we are talking about a bowler who had every skill which Anderson had. His performance was better if not as good as Anderson in the same period. I will take Zaheer of that period than Anderson and I saw both bowl. Some fans will take Anderson here but there is not much difference between these two in the same period.

    Clearly, Anderson was never a comfortable 2nd best for any extended period unless you are talking about 1 years after Zaheer's decline.
    Last edited by Buffet; 31st July 2014 at 14:44.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  26. #506
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    ^ Asif was better than both in that time-period. Rankings also confirmed this as he was ranked #2 before he got banned, and Steyn was #1, IIRC.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  27. #507
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    Like I said before, Jimmy is average. Only a blind fan who doesn't understand cricket nor has common sense will call him a sub 20 bowler.

  28. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    ^ Asif was better than both in that time-period. Rankings also confirmed this as he was ranked #2 before he got banned, and Steyn was #1, IIRC.
    He was a better bowler but earlier his name was ignored due to not having many tests. IN the same period ( 2007-2011), Asif has 17 tests with avg of 25.63. Zaheer and Anderson have doubt the amount in the same period so it's fine if some one wants to ignore Asif due to lack of tests. Asif played like 3-4 tests each year. SO I can see that point. Anyway, Asif or Zaheer or whoever, I don't see how Anderson was comfortably 2nd best till 2011.

    I specifically used Zaheer here because he had exactly the same skills as Anderson and he could reverse it better than Anderson in SC. Siddle argument can't be used for Zaheer when comparing with Anderson. Both were similar bowler with similar skills set.
    Last edited by Buffet; 31st July 2014 at 15:06.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  29. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    He was a better bowler but earlier his name was ignored due to not having many tests. IN the same period ( 2007-2011), Asif has 17 tests with avg of 25.63. Zaheer and Anderson have doubt the amount in the same period so it's fine if some one wants to ignore Asif due to lack of tests. Asif played like 3-4 tests each year. SO I can see that point. Anyway, Asif or Zaheer or whoever, I don't see how Anderson was comfortably 2nd best till 2011.

    I specifically used Zaheer here because he had exactly the same skills as Anderson and he could reverse it better than Anderson in SC. Siddle argument can't be used for Zaheer when comparing with Anderson. Both were similar bowler with similar skills set.
    Understood. But its always quality that should be used to judge players and not quantity, especially when discussing with Mamoon.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  30. #510
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    ..................AND!


  31. #511
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    Sensational spell today. Broad was magnificent as well.

  32. #512
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    Magnificent display of swing bowling today.


    "Don't just raise the standard, be the standard."

  33. #513
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    "Great start from England," exclaims Mathers. "Controlled line and pitching it up! Anderson's bowling average in Tests below 30 for the first time in 10 years."

  34. #514
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    Hasn't he got it under 30 a number of times now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Don't worry bro. Your other thread allows for rain. Maybe it will save you?

  35. #515
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    Not according to the quote above, which Cricinfo published in their stream.

  36. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aman View Post
    Hasn't he got it under 30 a number of times now?

    Several times, but back up over 30 by the end of the match.

  37. #517
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    Im sure it dropped below 30 sometime last year. But it got pushed back up during the australian ashes.

  38. #518
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    Massive achievement for clouderson

  39. #519
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    30.09 Will he do it this match or will he not?

  40. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastandfurious View Post
    30.09 Will he do it this match or will he not?
    Will do it once match finishes.



  41. #521
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    Jimmy's average always falls under 30 when he plays teams like India at home.

    Once he plays sides like SA, AUS, his average again goes over 30.

  42. #522
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    Average bowlers that are idiots don't average less than 30.

  43. #523
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    He really is Clouderson!

  44. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asif khan View Post
    He really is Clouderson!
    LOL, but a good Clouderson.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  45. #525
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    Quality bowler but heavily reliant on conditions. He was abysmal down under.

  46. #526
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    That delivery to Vijay was one of the best of the year. Would have made Wasim proud.


    Have you ever been to heaven at night?

  47. #527
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    I'd rather have a bowler who is erratic and inconsistent, but can bowl brilliant spells on his day, over a consistently mediocre steady-eddy.

    Really well bowled, pleasure to watch. Just shows that aesthetics matter.

    Broad was amazing as well.

  48. #528
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    He is a fantastic bowler. Anyone who knows his cricket will testify.

    Leave the Cricinfo filters for the statsgurus who have zilch understanding of the game and can't tell the difference b/w two fielding positions but will be quick to copy paste averages.

  49. #529
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    Clouderson living up to his name. Anybody surprised?

  50. #530
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    Scary bowler indeed.

    Stats don't reveal how good he actually was.

    I read someone saying Anderson didn't have a great tour to India. Throw stats away. He was so good that prompted even Dhoni (who never praises anyone) to say that Anderson was the difference between the 2 sides (of course their spinners outbowled us too but just saying).


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  51. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is a fantastic bowler. Anyone who knows his cricket will testify.

    Leave the Cricinfo filters for the statsgurus who have zilch understanding of the game and can't tell the difference b/w two fielding positions but will be quick to copy paste averages.
    Highly reliant on conditions though. When he is on song, he is unstoppable. I reckon if he had little bit more pace he would be more effective in less effective conditions. Saying all that, Broad is a better talent than him.

  52. #532
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    Yes that's true. Both Broad and Anderson are far better than what their numbers show.

  53. #533
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    Yes he was excellent in India.

  54. #534
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    Clouderson is having a ball. Which is to be expected under certain borders and parameters.
    What's his average after this innings?
    Its taking forever to get it below 30. Just shows how difficult test cricket can be, coz Jimmy has come leap and bounds over the years.

  55. #535
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    When will the greatest pace legend's average drop below 30?

    I am eagerly waiting for that.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  56. #536
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    Anderson is a pretty good bowler. He looks threatening more often than not with the new ball. Afterwards though, he's not as good IMO, which is what his stats reflect. Give him a new ball and cover, and he will have a great day.

  57. #537
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    Anderson and Broad belong to the category of players people love to hate for no apparent reason. I'm sure apart from perhaps Aus and RSA, any other team atm would love to have both of them on all days of cricket they play.

  58. #538
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    What a feat after playing almost 100 test matches..

  59. #539
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    Jimmy is decent and he is not better than his record suggest. I have seen him play and I know he is 30 plus average bowler. He only looks class when conditions suit him. Apart from the last 2 tests when was the last time he looked threatening? He failed against SL, in Aus, in NZ. He bowls good spells once in a while in good conditions which deceive people into believing he is a somehow better than he is. You should be getting five-fers almost every series and couple of more poles to average in 20s and look remotely as good as Steyn, McGrath etc. Anderson is too inconsistent and bowls one decent spell once in a year. His records show that but I have been watching since his comeback in 2008 and I know while he is decent, he is not better than his records suggest.

  60. #540
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    Getting his average below 30 will truly make him an All time great

  61. #541
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    For his blind fans, 30 is 20.

  62. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen77 View Post
    For his blind fans, 30 is 20.
    According to genius cricket fans, he can't be judged using stats.

  63. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by vandokkum View Post
    According to genius cricket fans, he can't be judged using stats.
    I haven't looked what his record is but from seeing him play I know he is 30 plus average bowler. You can't expect to average in 20s if you are a trundler and only bowl decently when conditions suit you. If he is better than his records suggest, McGrat, Steyn, Marshall are better than their average suggest. They shoud average in teens. They bowled consistently throughout their careers, taking five-fers almost every series and never relied on overcast conditions.
    Anderson's average is his own, not somebody else's. It is the reflection of his ups and down. His blind fans only remember the ups and not his down which are frequent.

  64. #544
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    Those that understand what is test cricket will recognize Jimmy for what he is, a decent bowler in good conditions. Nothing more.
    Last edited by Glen77; 8th August 2014 at 04:49.

  65. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen77 View Post
    Those that understand what is test cricket will recognize Jimmy for what he is, a decent bowler in good conditions. Nothing more.
    I view it differently - I've been watching the game for a long time, and I think people with your view aren't reading the game as well as they could be doing. And I'm not even a big fan of Anderson. But the impact he has had on this series and on English cricket more generally, over a number of years, has been immense. I've just been digesting this thread and your contributions have displayed a noticeable lack of knowledge and fairness.

  66. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen77 View Post
    Jimmy is decent and he is not better than his record suggest. I have seen him play and I know he is 30 plus average bowler. He only looks class when conditions suit him.
    I don't know why people still repeat this idiotic meme. It was true five years back, but since then Jimmy has had a fine series in SL, Australia and the UAE. Not to mention swinging and cutting it under clear blue skies for the whole third test match.
    Last edited by Robert; 8th August 2014 at 05:24.

  67. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I view it differently - I've been watching the game for a long time, and I think people with your view aren't reading the game as well as they could be doing. And I'm not even a big fan of Anderson. But the impact he has had on this series and on English cricket more generally, over a number of years, has been immense. I've just been digesting this thread and your contributions have displayed a noticeable lack of knowledge and fairness.
    Lol, well said.

  68. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Munna View Post
    Anderson and Broad belong to the category of players people love to hate for no apparent reason. I'm sure apart from perhaps Aus and RSA, any other team atm would love to have both of them on all days of cricket they play.
    A lot of people were comparing Anderson to Steyn a couple of years back which is the source of all this ridicule. To be fair, Anderson and Broad have done very well for themselves over the last 3 or 4 years so they deserve credit for that. But in the grand scheme of things I don't think Anderson will remembered as anything more than "A resilient Englishman who took nearly 400 wickets". Quite an acheivement in itself considering the amount of cricket that England plays and how short their bowlers' careers usually are. Steyn will be remembered as an ATG and there's a world of difference between the two. But as long as Jimmy continues to do well for England, comparisons hardly matter.

  69. #549
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    He is good but not world class or in the league of Steyn etc.

    Very good on his day under suitable conditions.

    This should stop here.

  70. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    He is good but not world class or in the league of Steyn etc.

    Very good on his day under suitable conditions.

    This should stop here.
    And the meme appears again three posts later!

    Does anyone here ever watch cricket?

  71. #551
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    Clouderson once again shamelessly living up to his reputation. A bit of sun and Clouderson goes invisible.

  72. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    And the meme appears again three posts later!

    Does anyone here ever watch cricket?
    The proof is in the pudding. Only a blind fan would deny Clouderson's over reliance on clouds.

  73. #553
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    Another proof that Gambhir is done and dusted. Giving your wicket to Clouderson on a sunny day is nothing short of criminal.

  74. #554
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    How bad are India though, I mean seriously these guys are all but running cricket. Financially bullying teams into meeting their demands, made ICC almost incompetent yet in test cricket away from home they are almost like minnows. They have a chance to sample most coubtries in every condition yet their so-called superstar batting lineup are like rabbits in front of headlights when it comes to overseas.

    One of the most overrated teams I have ever seen but that's not taking anything away from an England who as a team have done a lot of soul searching and have only just began a rebuilding process. Kudos to team England for the brilliant comeback.

  75. #555
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    Into the 30s he goes.

  76. #556
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    Back under 30. Well done Jimmy! You're no longer the worst bowler in the 300 Club !

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  78. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrdenn1s View Post
    Sad.....

  79. #559
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    Good bowler, but was mediocre for far too much of his earlier career which is reflected in his rather paltry average, someone who has unfulfilled potential.


    Politics trumps intelligence (pun intended).

  80. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Back under 30. Well done Jimmy! You're no longer the worst bowler in the 300 Club !

    Oy, don't be harsh. Only the third worst. He still had Brett Lee and Dartbhajan Singh in that club!


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