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  1. #1
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    Who is the best player of swing/seam bowling?

    People are always saying 'the real test is vs SA in SA' and other nonsense like that but when something like facing Rehman And Ajmal in UAE isn't(for a non subcontinental batsman). So swing lovers, who's the best player of swing you've ever seen and who is currently?
    out of any of the test playing nations...
    Last edited by Haz95; 12th February 2014 at 14:43.

  2. #2
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    Cheteshwar Pujara

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosa View Post
    Cheteshwar Pujara
    I was thinking that too...Along with Clarke, Amla, De Villiers and some more
    Last edited by Haz95; 12th February 2014 at 14:47.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosa View Post
    Cheteshwar Pujara
    What? Apart from those two matches in South Africa earlier this year, Pujara has failed whenever he has come up against swing.

    The best players of swing for me currently would be ABD and Amla.

  5. #5
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    Well no-one has really mastered the art of batting against swing or seam but if I was to pick player's who I feel could stand up and succeed (not all the time) would have to be AB, Amla and Clarke.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    What? Apart from those two matches in South Africa earlier this year, Pujara has failed whenever he has come up against swing.

    The best players of swing for me currently would be ABD and Amla.
    they don't have to play the best in the business

    I'd say Clarke.but no one stand out.swing bowling is hard to play for most


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    What? Apart from those two matches in South Africa earlier this year, Pujara has failed whenever he has come up against swing.

    The best players of swing for me currently would be ABD and Amla.
    Lol.abdv and amla were playing indian trundlers whereas pujara was playing steyn and philander who are currently best pair of swing and seem bowling.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    they don't have to play the best in the business

    I'd say Clarke.but no one stand out.swing bowling is hard to play for most
    This isn't much of a problem when people rate Ponting higher than Lara or Sachin. For all we know, ABD would have smashed Steyn for 6 sixes had they played on opposite sides. These two also play most of their cricket on the most swing friendly surfaces on the world.

    Playing in South Africa goes against their fast bowlers but in favor of their batsmen.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by az1986 View Post
    Lol.abdv and amla were playing indian trundlers whereas pujara was playing steyn and philander who are currently best pair of swing and seem bowling.
    They've played close to 80 matches with most being in South Africa not the slow, low pitches of India.

    I wouldn't gauge anything from that series, the pitches just did not look South African.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    They've played close to 80 matches with most being in South Africa not the slow, low pitches of India.

    I wouldn't gauge anything from that series, the pitches just did not look South African.
    Why can't people accept that his 153 was no mean feat...when this guy gets going, he scores hugeee.
    But he does need to play a bit more in friendly conditions, the verdict will be the next test against NZ...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz95 View Post
    Why can't people accept that his 153 was no mean feat...when this guy gets going, he scores hugeee.
    But he does need to play a bit more in friendly conditions, the verdict will be the next test against NZ...
    So six matches outside the subcon is enough to label him the best player of swing? Not even considering the fact that he failed in more than half of these tests?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    What? Apart from those two matches in South Africa earlier this year, Pujara has failed whenever he has come up against swing.

    The best players of swing for me currently would be ABD and Amla.
    You should not just check the scores. You must watch Pujara play too - he looks very confident while playing fast bowling as well as swing. He rarely gives away his wicket easily and most of the occasions he got out to peaches. The first time Pujara was in SA at Durban, he did not score much (19 and 10) but he played out more deliveries than most other Indian batsmen who played in that match, and he looked very solid in defence. Though his contributions were little in terms of runs in that match, he shared a crucial stand with Laxman when India batsmen were falling like nine pins, which turned out to be important in that low scoring match.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianWillow View Post
    You should not just check the scores. You must watch Pujara play too - he looks very confident while playing fast bowling as well as swing. He rarely gives away his wicket easily and most of the occasions he got out to peaches. The first time Pujara was in SA at Durban, he did not score much (19 and 10) but he played out more deliveries than most other Indian batsmen who played in that match, and he looked very solid in defence. Though his contributions were little in terms of runs in that match, he shared a crucial stand with Laxman when India batsmen were falling like nine pins, which turned out to be important in that low scoring match.
    Once again, is that enough to label him the best player of swing because that is what this thread is about. Pujara is a good player, I know that.

  14. #14
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    Gooch played swing well.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosa View Post
    Cheteshwar Pujara
    He is too new to be rated for that kind of tag. Let him play 30-40 tests.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling

    Yeah thats why i said we will see what happens in the second test in nz.... And i also asked who were the best ever too... Cheers justcrazy


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz95 View Post
    Yeah thats why i said we will see what happens in the second test in nz.... And i also asked who were the best ever too... Cheers justcrazy
    Doing well or not well in the second test won't prove anything. He has played too little cricket so far.

    I do rate him very high but he needs to play more cricket to get rated as the best in any categories when we are talking about the whole world involving all batsmen.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Doing well or not well in the second test won't prove anything. He has played too little cricket so far.

    I do rate him very high but he needs to play more cricket to get rated as the best in any categories when we are talking about the whole world involving all batsmen.
    Every legend that's watched him bat would say he's the only subcontinental currently who could succeed to be Dravid level.
    Tho he is still untested, agree with that

  19. #19
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    Pujara will be the best Test batsman in the world in 2 years.

    I will name him based on my foresight.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz95 View Post
    Every legend that's watched him bat would say he's the only subcontinental currently who could succeed to be Dravid level.
    I agree with that.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    This isn't much of a problem when people rate Ponting higher than Lara or Sachin. For all we know, ABD would have smashed Steyn for 6 sixes had they played on opposite sides. These two also play most of their cricket on the most swing friendly surfaces on the world.

    Playing in South Africa goes against their fast bowlers but in favor of their batsmen.
    lol I know who I'd bet in a contest of AB/Amla v Steyn.

    have they even done well against Anderson in swinging conditions?I know Amla got a 300 but that was a road


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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    I know who I'd bet in a contest of AB/Amla v Steyn.
    Steyn by some margin.

    People don't realize that how huge advantage you have if you don't have to face the only ATG bowler playing international cricket.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    Steyn by some margin.

    People don't realize that how huge advantage you have if you don't have to face the only ATG bowler playing international cricket.
    exactly


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  24. #24
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    Sachin, Inzamam and Arvinda Desilva from past. Currently, Kohli and i have no one else to be honest.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Pujara will be the best Test batsman in the world in 2 years.

    I will name him based on my foresight.
    Agree. But will be a flop in ODI's though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz95 View Post
    Why can't people accept that his 153 was no mean feat...when this guy gets going, he scores hugeee.
    But he does need to play a bit more in friendly conditions, the verdict will be the next test against NZ...
    Mazoor scored a HUNDRED vs SOUTH AFRICA WHICH HAD BOTH OF THEM

  27. #27
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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Quote Originally Posted by world cup captain View Post
    Mazoor scored a HUNDRED vs SOUTH AFRICA WHICH HAD BOTH OF THEM

    On flat uae wickets...


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  28. #28
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    Currently it's no one. They are all rubbish the moment the ball starts moving around. This is what happens when most of the pitches that are played on become flat.

    In the past Dravid, Gooch.

  29. #29
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    None other then Misbah ul-Haq.

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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Misbah can play it but he doesn't dominate it


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    None other then Misbah ul-Haq.
    Didn't play very well in South Africa and has struggled in Australia in the past.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz95 View Post
    Misbah can play it but he doesn't dominate it


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    Nobody dominates swing bowling really.

    Everyone gets out to it. Just some have a better defense then others. Misbah has probably the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    lol I know who I'd bet in a contest of AB/Amla v Steyn.

    have they even done well against Anderson in swinging conditions?I know Amla got a 300 but that was a road
    It wasn't a road and he scored a century at Lords as well. Amla also has a superb 196 against the Aussies which won them the match and scored a superb hundred in that 99, 47 all-out games as well. ABD has a good record against them as well.

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    Misbah doesn't play the swinging ball too well. Younis and Shafiq are probably the best out of Pakistan at the moment.

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    All pakistanis struggle against swing. I have never known one who does't

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    ^ Younis is really good if he curbs his desire of fishing outside the off stump.

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    The best innings against swing that I have seen in the last few years were those of Smith and Amla in the game where Australia were bowled out for 40 odd and the South Africans were bowled out for 99. Fantastic efforts especially when they scored at a SR of 70 and 80 respectively.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    ^ Younis is really good if he curbs his desire of fishing outside the off stump.
    Thats part of the package in his case!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Justcrazy View Post
    Gooch played swing well.
    Only for parts of his career. Terry Alderman had a lot of success against him.

  40. #40
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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Moyo maybe he has a an exceptional record in England where the ball swings the most

  41. #41
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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Lol at Misbah if he played in England in swinging conditions he'd get exposed

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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Nobody dominates swing bowling really.



    Everyone gets out to it. Just some have a better defense then others. Misbah has probably the best.

    Amla and AB have both done it more than once... Amlas triple and 196 were beastly... But no1 destroys it like viv, gilchrist or calmer guys like dravid, moyo too


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    In my opinion, it would be Clarke, ABCD or Amla.

    Pujara is new but in due course of time will overtake them.

    The greatest player of swing in the recent times is Rahul Dravid.

    In fact, you can argue he was a touch better than Sachin too in that department.

    In fact, very few in the cricket era can be called as better players of swing than Dravid.

    Personally I didn't see anyone but maybe someone from the past generations.

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    But Dravid doesn't dominate bowlers. So that counts against him a bit.

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    Mohammad Hafeez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    In my opinion, it would be Clarke, ABCD or Amla.

    Pujara is new but in due course of time will overtake them.

    The greatest player of swing in the recent times is Rahul Dravid.

    In fact, you can argue he was a touch better than Sachin too in that department.

    In fact, very few in the cricket era can be called as better players of swing than Dravid.

    Personally I didn't see anyone but maybe someone from the past generations.
    Is that why he averaged around 30 in the haven of swing bowling, South Africa?

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    I think Cook could be the best player of Swing bowling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Pujara will be the best Test batsman in the world in 2 years.

    I will name him based on my foresight.
    Same was said about before busted that myth.

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    It's impossible to be a good player of seam because it is not predictable. Playing high quality swing bowling is not an acquired art its merely down to luck if the batsman survives. I guess you could say players who leave the ball well when it's swinging are good player of swing.


    He is fundamentally aware of his aura within the team. His exhilaration infects them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Is that why he averaged around 30 in the haven of swing bowling, South Africa?
    Wrong.

    SA is the haven of bouncy pitches with seam movement. Dravid always struggled there.

    Eng is the haven of swing bowling.

    Dravid averages crazy there.

    Even played a rampaging James Anderson well at the twilight of his career.

    Played well in NZ too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mithun_minhas View Post
    I think Cook could be the best player of Swing bowling.
    He is SO NOT the best player of swing.

    Bring back Asif and Amir and Cook is dead.

    Evn an in form Bhuvi will take out Cook.

    Swing is NOT his forte.

    Taking nothing away from Cook, all his crazy scores have come against opposition when the bowlers were either out of form or were bad.

    Ashes - hilfy, Siddle, Johnson were a mess then
    India - Ashwin was a mess. So Ojha had to do all the work

    Clarke, Amla, ABCD do well even when opposition is in full flow

  52. #52
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    South African pitches offer both seam and swing which is why they are usually hard to bat on.
    There is movement through the air and off the pitch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eye_Done View Post
    Same was said about before busted that myth.
    What myth?

    If Junaid achieves half the success with the bowl as Kohli has achieved with the bat, we would be blessed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Is that why he averaged around 30 in the haven of swing bowling, South Africa?
    Dravid was a bit suspect against bounce especially against express fast bowling. Both Sachin and Laxman were good against bounce compared to Dravid, while Laxman was not so good against swing. Tendulkar had the best of two worlds - bounce and swing.

    Since Dravid was not an aggressive batsman while making lower scores, his averages took a hit in SA as well as Australia. In many knocks played in SA, he got out before he got his eye in, and Dravid usually does not score much in the first 50 delivery he faces. But he was damn good against swing, just check his record in England.

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    Dravid in England 2011 is one of the best performances against swing bowling i've ever seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndianWillow View Post
    Dravid was a bit suspect against bounce especially against express fast bowling. Both Sachin and Laxman were good against bounce compared to Dravid, while Laxman was not so good against swing. Tendulkar had the best of two worlds - bounce and swing.

    Since Dravid was not an aggressive batsman while making lower scores, his averages took a hit in SA as well as Australia. In many knocks played in SA, he got out before he got his eye in, and Dravid usually does not score much in the first 50 delivery he faces. But he was damn good against swing, just check his record in England.
    Perfectly put.

    Then the answer for best player of swing and seam bowling goes to Sachin.

    Ponting was amazing too.

    Lara was a bit suspect against swing.

    But he was the best in the world against spin. Even better than Sachin.

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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Perfectly put.



    Then the answer for best player of swing and seam bowling goes to Sachin.



    Ponting was amazing too.



    Lara was a bit suspect against swing.



    But he was the best in the world against spin. Even better than Sachin.

    So who is the best right now


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz95 View Post
    So who is the best right now


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    I already said that.

    Its between Clarke, ABCD and Amla.

    Tough to pick one.

    All are good but none towers over the rest.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by thivakar View Post
    Sachin, Inzamam and Arvinda Desilva from past. Currently, Kohli and i have no one else to be honest.
    What the hell you are talking about?
    Kohli is really poor against swing bowling.

  60. #60
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    From the current lot, ABD, Amla, Clarke and Misbah.

    There's a reason why Misbah averages highest in the world in most seam/swing friendly conditions, against top bowling. (ODIs).

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobashir View Post
    What the hell you are talking about?
    Kohli is really poor against swing bowling.
    Yes, he messed up.

    Neither Inzi nor Kohli are the best against swing.

    He isn't poor. Anyone who can score 100 and 95 in Joberg in his first test in SA is NOT poor.

    DeSilva I heard was damn good.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Yes, he messed up.

    Neither Inzi nor Kohli are the best against swing.

    He isn't poor. Anyone who can score 100 and 95 in Joberg in his first test in SA is NOT poor.

    DeSilva I heard was damn good.
    Yes same for Inzi.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    From the current lot, ABD, Amla, Clarke and Misbah.

    There's a reason why Misbah averages highest in the world in most seam/swing friendly conditions, against top bowling. (ODIs).
    Tests is a whole different picture.

    Dravid outperformed Sachin in ODI's in SA but everyone only remembers his failure in tests (and rightly so).

    Tests is where we judge.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    From the current lot, ABD, Amla, Clarke and Misbah.

    There's a reason why Misbah averages highest in the world in most seam/swing friendly conditions, against top bowling. (ODIs).
    Lol, some people really don't know anything about cricket.
    Just quit the sport, I mean do something else in life... Misbah one of the 4 best against swing bowling in the world...

  65. #65
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    If we go by the ODI logic, then Dhoni is the best player. He rarely gets out in ODI's no matter how much it swings.

    In tests, even the lamest swing bowler can get him out.

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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    I think Kevin Pietersen. And Kohli. In the current era.

  67. #67
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    Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    If we go by the ODI logic, then Dhoni is the best player. He rarely gets out in ODI's no matter how much it swings.

    In tests, even the lamest swing bowler can get him out.

    Yeah spot on here

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    I would say,Amla and AB.


    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  69. #69
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    Re: Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    None other then Misbah ul-Haq.
    When has Misbah ever played in swinging conditions against a good attack England is the place where the ball swings the most Misbah is lucky he hasn't played there only a few SC batsman can play well in swinging conditions such as Moyo Dravid Zaheer Abbas or Tendu

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  70. #70
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    Why has no one said Moyo against swing bowling he has a very good record in NZ and ENG he struggled on bouncy wickets in SA and AUS but in swinging conditions he was one of the best from the SC

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    Clarke is said to best player of swing bowling in current era,however for me it AB


    Quote Originally Posted by Convict View Post
    Every team would also have their specialist ball tamperers. We know that Afridi isn't Pakistans

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by syedtumair View Post
    Clarke is said to best player of swing bowling in current era,however for me it AB
    Yeah, for me its also AB but Clarke is very very closely behind..

  73. #73
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    clarke and AB. Nobody else is that great.


    when tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty

  74. #74
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    Umar Amin.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Umar Amin.
    I was thinking him with Hafeez but its a hard choice

  76. #76
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    While Dravid did exceedingly well against Anderson, he was all at sea against Wasim (arguably the greatest swing bowler ever) . So i don't think you can call him the greatest ever against swing.

    This is the first video that pops up when you search 'Dravid swing' on youtube -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlILHkJakv8

  77. #77
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    Re: Who is the best player of Swing/Seam bowling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrolln View Post
    While Dravid did exceedingly well against Anderson, he was all at sea against Wasim (arguably the greatest swing bowler ever) . So i don't think you can call him the greatest ever against swing.

    This is the first video that pops up when you search 'Dravid swing' on youtube -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlILHkJakv8
    What a bowler

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  78. #78
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    Williamson pretty good too.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrolln View Post
    While Dravid did exceedingly well against Anderson, he was all at sea against Wasim (arguably the greatest swing bowler ever) . So i don't think you can call him the greatest ever against swing.

    This is the first video that pops up when you search 'Dravid swing' on youtube -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlILHkJakv8
    The greatest is bit too much but clips like above can be found for any player. You take their career sample size to judge.

    Personally, Dravid is the top 2-3 batsmen I have seen against swing in the last 20 years.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffet View Post
    The greatest is bit too much but clips like above can be found for any player. You take their career sample size to judge.

    Personally, Dravid is the top 2-3 batsmen I have seen against swing in the last 20 years.
    Ok, maybe I am wrong.

    I am wrong.

    Indian Willow explained why Sachin is better.

    Plus I NEVER said Dravid is better than yesteryears cricketers.

    Jack Hobbs is clearly rated the best batsman in treacherous pitches.

    Can you tell me someone who was clearly better than Dravid once he debuted?

    Maybe I missed someone.

    Yes, anyone can find any batsman struggling aginst swing.

    Great players of swing are rated high cos swing is DAMN hard to play.

    Its not going to click all the time.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 14th February 2014 at 04:23.

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