Instagram


Sohail Speaks Yasir's Blog Fazeer's Focus

User Tag List

Page 26 of 27 FirstFirst ... 1624252627 LastLast
Results 2,001 to 2,080 of 2139
  1. #2001
    Debut
    Apr 2010
    Venue
    221B Baker Street
    Runs
    13,150
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Batting technique against the moving and short ball. If those foundations were laid when he was young, he'd be unstoppable. Right now, it's all natural ability he relies on.
    The short ball issue is blown out of all proportion. Not all batsmen are comfortable with it, but they play around it. Cook/Steve Waugh being two of them.

    Also the moving ball is an issue for every batsmen not just Ali.

    Btw, did you know Moeen played and practised daily in his back garden, which was soon converted into a pitch with netting?

    he's been brought up playing with his uncle and father since he was 11. He's been in the county game for almost a decade now, if not more.

    If natural ability is all that's getting him through then so be it. Other players would kill for just an ounce of that ability tbh.


    "When You Have Eliminated The Impossible, Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be The Truth!

  2. #2002
    Debut
    May 2016
    Runs
    8,791
    Mentioned
    405 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    The short ball issue is blown out of all proportion. Not all batsmen are comfortable with it, but they play around it. Cook/Steve Waugh being two of them.

    Also the moving ball is an issue for every batsmen not just Ali.

    Btw, did you know Moeen played and practised daily in his back garden, which was soon converted into a pitch with netting?

    he's been brought up playing with his uncle and father since he was 11. He's been in the county game for almost a decade now, if not more.

    If natural ability is all that's getting him through then so be it. Other players would kill for just an ounce of that ability tbh.
    Mate, I'm praising him not diminishing him. He's so incredibly gifted that all he needed were the very basics, front foot movement and alignment of the head with it to be elite. It's not that he doesn't know these things but most likely had trouble implementing them because he'd already settled into a style of play.

    If instilled at a young age, ideally pre-teen or early teen years, they become the foundation of your batting and then you let your natural talent take over. Someone of Moeen's ability would've become impossible to bowl to. That's all I meant.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  3. #2003
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,831
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    What a corking player he is turning out to be. May not always have the sharpest numbers on paper, but adds tremendous value whenever he is involved in the action on the field.

  4. #2004
    Debut
    Aug 2012
    Venue
    NB, Canada
    Runs
    2,705
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    id like to see some more under pressure knocks and him winning world cup matches before rating.

    Scoring when your team has already laid a base isn't as good as chasing oe scoring when your team is struggling


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  5. #2005
    Debut
    Apr 2010
    Venue
    221B Baker Street
    Runs
    13,150
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Mate, I'm praising him not diminishing him. He's so incredibly gifted that all he needed were the very basics, front foot movement and alignment of the head with it to be elite. It's not that he doesn't know these things but most likely had trouble implementing them because he'd already settled into a style of play.

    If instilled at a young age, ideally pre-teen or early teen years, they become the foundation of your batting and then you let your natural talent take over. Someone of Moeen's ability would've become impossible to bowl to. That's all I meant.
    But once again you bring the young age part into it. It's not about a young age. Sometimes players aren't good with a short/moving ball despite training at a young age.

    Kohli of all people struggles with the away swing on off-stump line.

    Cook has been known to struggle against the shorter ball for a few years now.

    It happens to everyone. If you have a batsmen that is good against the short ball and the moving delivery you'll have the best player in the history of the game.

    I know you're praising him, but some things aren't as easy to fix and you may think.


    "When You Have Eliminated The Impossible, Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be The Truth!

  6. #2006
    Debut
    Apr 2010
    Venue
    221B Baker Street
    Runs
    13,150
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    id like to see some more under pressure knocks and him winning world cup matches before rating.

    Scoring when your team has already laid a base isn't as good as chasing oe scoring when your team is struggling
    He's scored under pressure in Tests and in ODIs. It's not as if England have been laying the groundwork for him to just out slog everything.


    "When You Have Eliminated The Impossible, Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be The Truth!

  7. #2007
    Debut
    May 2016
    Runs
    8,791
    Mentioned
    405 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    But once again you bring the young age part into it. It's not about a young age. Sometimes players aren't good with a short/moving ball despite training at a young age.

    Kohli of all people struggles with the away swing on off-stump line.

    Cook has been known to struggle against the shorter ball for a few years now.

    It happens to everyone. If you have a batsmen that is good against the short ball and the moving delivery you'll have the best player in the history of the game.

    I know you're praising him, but some things aren't as easy to fix and you may think.
    Cook is one of the better players of the short ball.

    Their deficiencies are minor, his are major. Far easier to exploit while they can cover theirs in most cases. Cook and Kohli are susceptible against lateral movement but not to the extent Moeen is. No batsman is perfect but the greatest strive to perfect their craft and have figured a way to reduce that gap.

    I'm not saying if taught at a young age that all batsmen would become elite players of lateral movement. Most players won't for various reasons; temperamental, lack of physical ability, etc. But if the foundation is laid from a young age, you are in a better position to succeed. Moeen lacks that foundation but his natural gifts let him overcome those deficiencies, especially in white ball cricket. What I'm arguing and you're free to disagree is: had Moeen instilled those basic foundations into his game from a young age, he's so naturally gifted that he would become impossible to bowl to. Once again, I'm speaking very basic, front foot movement and head aligning with the front foot. Nothing exceptional like textbook techniques of Kallis or a Gavaskar.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  8. #2008
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    28,285
    Mentioned
    906 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    id like to see some more under pressure knocks and him winning world cup matches before rating.

    Scoring when your team has already laid a base isn't as good as chasing oe scoring when your team is struggling
    Did you even watch the last two games? He scored under pressure in both of them and in today's game, chased the target down easily, albeit a Duckworth Lewis target.

  9. #2009
    Debut
    Apr 2010
    Venue
    221B Baker Street
    Runs
    13,150
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief Destroyer View Post
    Cook is one of the better players of the short ball.

    Their deficiencies are minor, his are major. Far easier to exploit while they can cover theirs in most cases. Cook and Kohli are susceptible against lateral movement but not to the extent Moeen is. No batsman is perfect but the greatest strive to perfect their craft and have figured a way to reduce that gap.

    I'm not saying if taught at a young age that all batsmen would become elite players of lateral movement. Most players won't for various reasons; temperamental, lack of physical ability, etc. But if the foundation is laid from a young age, you are in a better position to succeed. Moeen lacks that foundation but his natural gifts let him overcome those deficiencies, especially in white ball cricket. What I'm arguing and you're free to disagree is: had Moeen instilled those basic foundations into his game from a young age, he's so naturally gifted that he would become impossible to bowl to. Once again, I'm speaking very basic, front foot movement and head aligning with the front foot. Nothing exceptional like textbook techniques of Kallis or a Gavaskar.
    I'm sorry but Ali's deficiencies are major? Goodness me.

    I really can't be arsed.


    "When You Have Eliminated The Impossible, Whatever Remains, However Improbable, Must Be The Truth!

  10. #2010
    Debut
    Aug 2012
    Venue
    NB, Canada
    Runs
    2,705
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Did you even watch the last two games? He scored under pressure in both of them and in today's game, chased the target down easily, albeit a Duckworth Lewis target.
    there was already a platform set, he could play risk free


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  11. #2011
    Debut
    Apr 2013
    Venue
    Karachi
    Runs
    21,950
    Mentioned
    976 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    there was already a platform set, he could play risk free
    In the previous ODI, he came in to bat at 210/5 and played at a decent pace for a while before going berserk at the end. Root got out soon and made it 217/6 so another wicket or two and WI could have wrapped up the innings for around 270-280. However, Moeen put on a good partnership with Woakes and then went berserk at the end. Not under tons of pressure but still it was a super way to finish the innings.

    Today was a tougher situation though. England were 192/5 chasing 357, the required run-rate was climbing with the threat of rain looming. Moeen and Buttler read the situation really well and got England ahead of the DLS par score before the rain arrived.


    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  12. #2012
    Debut
    Dec 2016
    Runs
    2,754
    Mentioned
    77 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    In the previous ODI, he came in to bat at 210/5 and played at a decent pace for a while before going berserk at the end. Root got out soon and made it 217/6 so another wicket or two and WI could have wrapped up the innings for around 270-280. However, Moeen put on a good partnership with Woakes and then went berserk at the end. Not under tons of pressure but still it was a super way to finish the innings.

    Today was a tougher situation though. England were 192/5 chasing 357, the required run-rate was climbing with the threat of rain looming. Moeen and Buttler read the situation really well and got England ahead of the DLS par score before the rain arrived.
    Exactly. I swear some fans just don't want to be happy. Both of these innings were pressure knocks.

  13. #2013
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,831
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I actually think it is quite clear from Moeen's last 18 months of cricket that pressure does not bother him at all. Sometimes that is the problem of course, because there are occasions when he has played inappropriately in the context of the match and made a fool of himself. But more often than not his liberated daredevil approach has come off, and not only has this been a treat to watch, it has turned entire matches on its head.

  14. #2014
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    28,285
    Mentioned
    906 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    I'm sorry but Ali's deficiencies are major? Goodness me.

    I really can't be arsed.
    Ali bats one down for his county and was considered for the opening spot early on in his career. He doesn't have any major weaknesses against the moving ball, however he isn't the best against the bouncers.

    Matters little for a lower-order batsman however. Just ask Dhoni or Afridi.

    Quote Originally Posted by CricFan2012 View Post
    there was already a platform set, he could play risk free
    Risk free? He hit a truckload of sixes in both matches so this makes no sense. I think you mean he could play without pressure which again makes zero sense because 1) Ali has played superb innings when the bats above him have been dismissed cheaply and 2) there was no real platform set. Had he been dismissed for a duck, England would have lost both matches.

  15. #2015
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    23,449
    Mentioned
    670 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Well, he will move up to #7 now. A good chance for him.

  16. #2016
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    28,285
    Mentioned
    906 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    West Indies scores 280 in today's game and Ali's figures were exceptional: 10 overs, 36 runs and the wicket of Marlon Samuels. Moeen Ali is clearly very hand with the ball.

  17. #2017
    Debut
    Aug 2012
    Venue
    NB, Canada
    Runs
    2,705
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Decent outing with the ball, this Ashes is the true test for all these english cricketers


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  18. #2018
    Debut
    Feb 2016
    Runs
    385
    Mentioned
    12 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Better all-rounder than stokes and will prove that soon

  19. #2019
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    28,285
    Mentioned
    906 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Very good start from Moeen Ali. Looked like a proper #6 and lead spinner thus far and has handled the pressure better than most others. He'll be invaluable if he continues performing with bat and ball.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  20. #2020
    Debut
    Apr 2013
    Venue
    Karachi
    Runs
    21,950
    Mentioned
    976 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)



    Thoughts @shaz619?


    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  21. #2021
    Debut
    Mar 2007
    Runs
    23,028
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Typical English pundits. He was supposedly their best batsmen the last game and now a game later he's a weak link.

    The damaged finger clearly affected his bowling and along with his far from ideal preparation for this series it's really no surprise that he hasn't done too well. They need to cut him so slack seriously.

  22. #2022
    Debut
    Dec 2015
    Runs
    3,347
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boi View Post
    Typical English pundits. He was supposedly their best batsmen the last game and now a game later he's a weak link.

    The damaged finger clearly affected his bowling and along with his far from ideal preparation for this series it's really no surprise that he hasn't done too well. They need to cut him so slack seriously.
    Quite clearly referring to him as the weak link in the bowling attack.

  23. #2023
    Debut
    Apr 2009
    Venue
    Australia
    Runs
    5,672
    Mentioned
    1247 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    Moeen Ali isn't your premier spinner. If you are going to play him as a lone spinner then you are going to be in trouble. Yes he did well against India 3 years ago and bowled well at home but again he is at best a 5th bowler and England should look for a spinner who can actually pick wickets. The Performance of Nathan Lyon has been the difference between the two teams. Moeen hasn't been even close to what Lyon has been doing.

  24. #2024
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    28,285
    Mentioned
    906 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    Moeen Ali isn't your premier spinner. If you are going to play him as a lone spinner then you are going to be in trouble. Yes he did well against India 3 years ago and bowled well at home but again he is at best a 5th bowler and England should look for a spinner who can actually pick wickets. The Performance of Nathan Lyon has been the difference between the two teams. Moeen hasn't been even close to what Lyon has been doing.
    Lyon is the best off-spinner in the world. Moeen is obviously no match for him. However, he's the best England have got. No point is saying that England should find someone else because there is no one else.
    Last edited by Bilal7; 7th December 2017 at 00:39.

  25. #2025
    Debut
    May 2016
    Runs
    8,791
    Mentioned
    405 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Having as much effect as Swann did. At least he won't embarrass England by running away.


    A skilled hawk conceals its talons.

  26. #2026
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post



    Thoughts @shaz619?
    A bit harsh to be honest, only a series earlier he was deemed by the same guys the one to watch outside the likes of Stokes due to his impact ability. Also, Mo is not 100% fit, options are thin and spinners in general find it tough in AUS; would have thought Swan of all people would be more sympathetic. One thing about Ali is, he has the fighting spirit; he won't quit like others did when they toured AUS. Anyhow, options are thin so Mo will be backed even if it means playing as a specialist batsman. More recently, he was made captain of the team scheduled to play the warm up game prior to the next Test match; @MMHS this could be a test for the VC role or they are grooming him and maybe down the line he has a small chance to replace Root like you wanted.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  27. #2027
    Debut
    Dec 2015
    Runs
    3,347
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    A bit harsh to be honest, only a series earlier he was deemed by the same guys the one to watch outside the likes of Stokes due to his impact ability. Also, Mo is not 100% fit, options are thin and spinners in general find it tough in AUS; would have thought Swan of all people would be more sympathetic. One thing about Ali is, he has the fighting spirit; he won't quit like others did when they toured AUS. Anyhow, options are thin so Mo will be backed even if it means playing as a specialist batsman. More recently, he was made captain of the team scheduled to play the warm up game prior to the next Test match; @MMHS this could be a test for the VC role or they are grooming him and maybe down the line he has a small chance to replace Root like you wanted.
    More likely the fact that he's the only one from the XI playing because of his recent fitness issues and poor bowling form.

  28. #2028
    Debut
    Oct 2010
    Runs
    11,512
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Australia is known to be a graveyard for a lot of spinners so not surprised Ali's bowling, which is only his secondary role has not been successful. He needs to get more runs with the bat though.

  29. #2029
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    More likely the fact that he's the only one from the XI playing because of his recent fitness issues and poor bowling form.
    If you read my post I mentioned those but am not sure you read it all or the points made went over your head?
    Last edited by hadi123; 7th December 2017 at 13:46.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  30. #2030
    Debut
    Dec 2015
    Runs
    3,347
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    If you read my post I mentioned those but am not sure you read it all or the points made went over your head?
    Was referring to why he's captaining.

  31. #2031
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Was referring to why he's captaining.
    Perhaps but my points remain, if he wasn't Moeen Ali he wouldn't have found himself in that position to begin with; it's also an opportunity to impress, lets just hope Mason Crane doesn't fail him


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  32. #2032
    Debut
    Dec 2015
    Runs
    3,347
    Mentioned
    82 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Perhaps but my points remain, if he wasn't Moeen Ali he wouldn't have found himself in that position to begin with; it's also an opportunity to impress, lets just hope Mason Crane doesn't fail him
    Alternatively if he'd bowled a bit better he wouldn't be finding himself in this position anyway .

  33. #2033
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HitWicket View Post
    Alternatively if he'd bowled a bit better he wouldn't be finding himself in this position anyway .
    Touche rumour has it Crane bit Mo's fingers during his beauty sleep


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  34. #2034
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Tbh it's good that Mo is getting to play the warm up, his preparation for the ashes has been far from ideal


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  35. #2035
    Debut
    Apr 2010
    Runs
    846
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Pretty harsh from Swann and Boycott (obviously). He just had the summer of his life in England, man of the series, man of the match awards, up for Eng player of 2017 with Root and Anderson. Two bad matches, one while carrying an injury, and you want to drop him?! A lot of unconscious bias on this issue by Engish pundits generally, especially evident here.

    Even if you want to play Crane or Leach, dropping Moeen and not Malan would not be smart. On batting alone, he deserves to be in the side based on recent form.

  36. #2036
    Debut
    Apr 2011
    Venue
    Toronto (Dhaka)
    Runs
    20,415
    Mentioned
    1468 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    A bit harsh to be honest, only a series earlier he was deemed by the same guys the one to watch outside the likes of Stokes due to his impact ability. Also, Mo is not 100% fit, options are thin and spinners in general find it tough in AUS; would have thought Swan of all people would be more sympathetic. One thing about Ali is, he has the fighting spirit; he won't quit like others did when they toured AUS. Anyhow, options are thin so Mo will be backed even if it means playing as a specialist batsman. More recently, he was made captain of the team scheduled to play the warm up game prior to the next Test match; @MMHS this could be a test for the VC role or they are grooming him and maybe down the line he has a small chance to replace Root like you wanted.
    I don't want to use that word, but Boyce isn't helping his reputation. He is picking the guy for not posting 400, who comes at 6 and still bowling 35+ tight overs. I probably can point 5 batsmen coming in front of him who are not justifying their spot as specialist bat. Lets go straight to numbers - everyone has batted 4 innings and none remained NO (so average in straight runs/innings); this is what Poms top 7 has done
    Cook - 62/4; Stoneman - 134/4; Vince - 102/4 (with one 83); Root - 142/4; Malan - 108/4; JB - 108/4; Ali - 105/4. On top of that, beard has bowled 63 overs (2/196), and has 2 catches - so, obviously Boyce hasn't looked at the numbers or he has seen other things than numbers first.

    Coming to the bowling - I think, I have bashed enough on ENG's fascination on "spinner, who can bat", so at least I'll thank Swan to call spade as a spade. In ENG team, I can't explain why Overton (Or Woakes) is there over Masson - if 3 can't do it, 4th won't. I was suggesting MA for next Pom Captain - I have moved from that. What Boyce is telling on record, it gives me enough indication of what'll happen if the guy is made Captain.

    I wonder, why these pundits are not talking about Foakes playing for one of Vince or Malan and Johnny batting higher.

  37. #2037
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    12,467
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    He’s still very hit and miss with the ball. In the summer he was outstanding vs SA but average vs the WIs. Before that he was superb vs Bangladesh followed up with a poor series vs India.

    He’s clearly not a part time spinner but he’s not quite a front line spinner yet either imo.

    Seems a bit unfair to specifically target him here though because several England players have underperformed in the Ashes thus far but they're not getting the negative attention Moeen is.

  38. #2038
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MMHS View Post
    I don't want to use that word, but Boyce isn't helping his reputation. He is picking the guy for not posting 400, who comes at 6 and still bowling 35+ tight overs. I probably can point 5 batsmen coming in front of him who are not justifying their spot as specialist bat. Lets go straight to numbers - everyone has batted 4 innings and none remained NO (so average in straight runs/innings); this is what Poms top 7 has done
    Cook - 62/4; Stoneman - 134/4; Vince - 102/4 (with one 83); Root - 142/4; Malan - 108/4; JB - 108/4; Ali - 105/4. On top of that, beard has bowled 63 overs (2/196), and has 2 catches - so, obviously Boyce hasn't looked at the numbers or he has seen other things than numbers first.

    Coming to the bowling - I think, I have bashed enough on ENG's fascination on "spinner, who can bat", so at least I'll thank Swan to call spade as a spade. In ENG team, I can't explain why Overton (Or Woakes) is there over Masson - if 3 can't do it, 4th won't. I was suggesting MA for next Pom Captain - I have moved from that. What Boyce is telling on record, it gives me enough indication of what'll happen if the guy is made Captain.

    I wonder, why these pundits are not talking about Foakes playing for one of Vince or Malan and Johnny batting higher.
    Maybe they should drop Mo, then I'd love to see the response of these same pundits after another defeat. You're right, I suspect he wouldn't really get a chance to flourish with the arm band much rather have him focus on his game. In England's 1st innings in the last game, Overton top scored! in the second innings one batsman passed 40 runs! but we have a big Moeen Ali problem an A/R that is fundamentally the root cause of our poor performances


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  39. #2039
    Debut
    Apr 2013
    Venue
    Karachi
    Runs
    21,950
    Mentioned
    976 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

    Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/c...-a8099671.html


    Follow PakPassion on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram!

  40. #2040
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

    Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/c...-a8099671.html
    He has always been such a good sport and has the 'warrior spirit' as Chris Eubank snr would say lol @KingKhanWC


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  41. #2041
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

    Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/c...-a8099671.html
    Beware of the wounded tiger


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  42. #2042
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,831
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    He is being forced to play through an injury because with Stokes out he is the only quasi-decent all-rounder in the squad. I would take his performance levels with a pinch of salt at the moment.

  43. #2043
    Debut
    Aug 2016
    Venue
    Islamabad, Pakistan.
    Runs
    6,031
    Mentioned
    130 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Doesn't deserve a spot in the team for the Aussie tour, but that's just my opinion.

  44. #2044
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    28,285
    Mentioned
    906 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    He is being forced to play through an injury because with Stokes out he is the only quasi-decent all-rounder in the squad. I would take his performance levels with a pinch of salt at the moment.
    Agreed. He would have done much better if he hadn't been injured twice on tour already.

    Hopefully, he'll be someway near full fitness for the third test.

  45. #2045
    Debut
    Mar 2015
    Runs
    216
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He can win them a Test match by himself, and they want to drop him lol
    How many other match winners do thay have in the team? Anderson, Broad and maybe Root

  46. #2046
    Debut
    Aug 2012
    Venue
    NB, Canada
    Runs
    2,705
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Moeen is turning into a HTB, he needs to improve his spin
    Last edited by MenInG; 10th December 2017 at 14:47.


    Babar Azam: Runs 8032, Average 44, Top Score: 204, Fav fan: CricFan2012

  47. #2047
    Debut
    Aug 2016
    Venue
    Islamabad, Pakistan.
    Runs
    6,031
    Mentioned
    130 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What makes you say that?

  48. #2048
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    19,469
    Mentioned
    286 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ExpressPacer View Post
    What makes you say that?
    Lyon has dismissed him 4 times out of 4.

  49. #2049
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    23,449
    Mentioned
    670 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    But Moeen is not in the mood for excuses. “You feel like you’ve let the team down, and the captain especially,” he says. “Lyon is bowling so well. Everything – the revs, the areas he’s bowling. It’s only been two games. I do believe I can bowl better.”

    Moeen shows us the injured finger. The gash – caused by the sharp, unfamiliar seam on the Kookaburra ball – has closed over, but the healing is still uneven, the swirling weals of skin clearly still raw. He will captain a second-string England side in a two-day warm-up game in Perth this weekend to get miles in his legs, but he will not bowl. But he adds: “I don't want to keep blaming the injury. I haven't bowled well.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/c...-a8099671.html
    I admire his self-awareness.

    Play him just as a batter at #6 and give Crane a bowl. It’s Perth which should help the leggie.

  50. #2050
    Debut
    Dec 2014
    Runs
    106
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He's been extremely poor all series. Little to no contribution with the bat. What were English selectors thinking that a bits and pieces offie could be their frontline spinner down under.

  51. #2051
    Debut
    Nov 2017
    Venue
    Jhansi(uttar pradesh),India
    Runs
    390
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Should try mason crane instead.

  52. #2052
    Debut
    Sep 2012
    Runs
    72,867
    Mentioned
    4384 Post(s)
    Tagged
    36 Thread(s)
    This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.

  53. #2053
    Debut
    Dec 2005
    Venue
    Sharjah, U.A.E
    Runs
    10,921
    Mentioned
    86 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.
    When was that EVER in doubt? Moeen will forever be an inconsistent cricketer capable of the brilliant, but equally capable of the worst.

  54. #2054
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Runs
    7,212
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Moen was expected to be England main man when they toured India while Stokes was expected to be one in Australia.

    Moen was unconvincing in India particularly with the bowl and as expected pretty dismal here too. He is turning out to be a Home Track Bully.

    Shakib, Ashwin and Stokes are at different level.

  55. #2055
    Debut
    Jul 2017
    Runs
    651
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.
    Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.

  56. #2056
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Runs
    7,212
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Stokes, on other hand, did well with the bowl in India if you look beyond the stats.

    But again he has himself to blame for not playing in Australia when he could have been the key man for them and won a match when mattered, particularly, the first one.

  57. #2057
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Runs
    7,212
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.
    He was MOS in England series win to South Africa in South Africa. Australian conditions would have suited him.

  58. #2058
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,831
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Looks like Moeen might be a Home Track Bully player. But what a Bully he is! Should definitely be in the side for every home Test going forward; meanwhile they should take more of a “horses for courses” approach with him abroad - sometimes pick him, sometimes have him carrying the drinks. He has had a nightmare tour here but let that not extinguish the memories of his numerous magnificent contributions in home matches.

  59. #2059
    Debut
    Nov 2017
    Venue
    India
    Runs
    611
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.
    Stokes performed brilliantly when he last toured in Australia,India,Bangladesh and South Africa.

    He was arguably England's best player in each of these countries

  60. #2060
    Debut
    Oct 2004
    Runs
    90,297
    Mentioned
    1582 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)



    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  61. #2061
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,831
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam99 View Post
    Stokes would have struggled in ashes as well. Maybe few wickets here and there and fifties but he is no matchwinner outside england.
    What about his brilliant performances in South Africa?

  62. #2062
    Debut
    Jul 2017
    Runs
    651
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    What about his brilliant performances in South Africa?
    Not sure if he would have won even 1 match in ashes. His bowling won't trouble you on aus pitches and aus would have managed him like they did for whole england batting lineup.

  63. #2063
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    12,467
    Mentioned
    117 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Have they been measuring the spinner’s rpm this series. Anyone know what kind of figures Moeen was getting?

  64. #2064
    Debut
    Oct 2004
    Runs
    90,297
    Mentioned
    1582 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Former England spinner Graeme Swann says he "can't see how" Moeen Ali fits into the team for the final Ashes Test against Australia in Sydney.

    Moeen, 30, has taken only three wickets with his off-spin and averages 19 with the bat in the first four Tests.

    "His place in the team has to be in jeopardy. His confidence has to be rock bottom," Swann told BBC Sport.

    Australia held on to draw the fourth Test in Melbourne on Saturday and preserve their 3-0 series lead.

    The fifth Test at the Sydney Cricket Ground starts on 4 January (23:30 GMT on 3 January).

    Worcestershire's Moeen has made five centuries and taken 131 wickets in 48 Tests since making his debut in 2014, but has struggled on his first Ashes tour.

    England could give 20-year-old leg-spinner Mason Crane his Test debut at the SCG, which traditionally aids spinners.

    "I feel for Mo. He's fighting demons at the moment," said Swann, who took 255 wickets in 60 Tests and won the Ashes three times.

    "His confidence is so low that when he bowls there are no revolutions on the ball, no energy in his action.

    "Unless they play two spinners in Sydney, I can't see how you could fit Moeen into the team.

    "I would like to have a look at Mason Crane. He should be bowling every day in the nets. He should be as ready as you can be to play a Test match."

    Moeen's preparations for the Ashes series were hampered by a side strain that meant he could play in only one of the three warm-up games.

    He then suffered a cut to his spinning finger in the first Test defeat in Brisbane.

    "Moeen has had a tough tour," said England captain Joe Root.

    "We have had a number of guys respond well to a difficult few weeks already here, and there's no reason why Moeen can't do that.

    "He will have a big future for England. It is important that everyone knows that."

    Moeen has managed only one wicket since Brisbane and was overlooked in favour of part-time leg-spinner Dawid Malan at times on the final day in Melbourne.

    At one stage on the fifth day, Australia were four wickets down with a lead of only 14 runs.

    However, on a placid, unresponsive surface, the home side were taken to a draw by captain Steve Smith's unbeaten 102, his third century of the series.

    "We will never know if a win would have been possible if England had had a high-class spinner," said former England captain Michael Vaughan.

    "If you can't bowl on the last day when the team is bowling for victory, then you can't really play."

    Moeen made 20 off 14 balls in England's first-innings 491. He was dropped at long-off before he cut off-spinner Nathan Lyon to short cover.

    "His batting looked like he had a muddled mind and wasn't thinking clearly," added Vaughan, who played 82 Tests and led England to victory in the 2005 Ashes.

    "People will say that he tried to be positive, but this was the perfect pitch to bat on. It really concerned me that he thought that was the way to go on this wicket.

    "England generally don't change, but you have got to look after the individual. It would be doing the right thing by Moeen to leave him out."

    http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/42521457
    Last edited by MenInG; 30th December 2017 at 09:52.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  65. #2065
    Debut
    Nov 2005
    Venue
    England
    Runs
    9,848
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    It could end up as Moeens last test, but what cant be denied is that he has had a very good career. If his doesnt improve his bowling he wont play any form of the game.

  66. #2066
    Debut
    Nov 2005
    Venue
    England
    Runs
    9,848
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabbar Singh View Post
    Have they been measuring the spinner’s rpm this series. Anyone know what kind of figures Moeen was getting?
    I dont have BT, but on the live stream he seemed to have less revs than me.

  67. #2067
    Debut
    Oct 2010
    Runs
    11,512
    Mentioned
    171 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    It could end up as Moeens last test, but what cant be denied is that he has had a very good career. If his doesnt improve his bowling he wont play any form of the game.
    Bit of a knee jerk reaction? Don't think he will be dropped for a while but I agree that he has been poor this series.

  68. #2068
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,831
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    It could end up as Moeens last test, but what cant be denied is that he has had a very good career. If his doesnt improve his bowling he wont play any form of the game.
    Wow! He was just one of the best players of the English season. Maybe a bit of an overreaction to say that he can’t come back from this. It could end up being a one series blip, or a specific country where he doesn’t do well.

  69. #2069
    Debut
    Jul 2015
    Venue
    London, England
    Runs
    746
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I really feel for Moeen, he's been tremendous at home for England but has failed this series. Alot of players have performed abysmally but have contributed here and there but Moeen hasn't at all. Failed with the bowl and hasn't contributed with the bat at all. Tough tour for him

  70. #2070
    Debut
    Feb 2012
    Venue
    Mississauga, Canada
    Runs
    28,285
    Mentioned
    906 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ab Fan View Post
    Moen was expected to be England main man when they toured India while Stokes was expected to be one in Australia.

    Moen was unconvincing in India particularly with the bowl and as expected pretty dismal here too. He is turning out to be a Home Track Bully.

    Shakib, Ashwin and Stokes are at different level.
    *Moeen.

    Moeen scored two centuries in India and was arguably one of their best batsmen on tour. He wasn't very good with the ball but then the pitches in that series were nowhere as spin-friendly as the pitches Australia played on.

    How does his failures here put Stokes in a better light? At least Moeen did not throw his team under the bus. Ashwin? Lol. Moeen may be "turning out to be a HTB" but Ashwin is already one of the biggest HTBs of this era. Shakib was always the best test all-rounder in the world. Ali and Stokes are joint-second. Ashwin is no all-rounder, simply a bowler who bats a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.
    Yeah, Stokes has been fantastic in this Ashes series.

  71. #2071
    Debut
    Nov 2005
    Venue
    England
    Runs
    9,848
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by hadi123 View Post
    Bit of a knee jerk reaction? Don't think he will be dropped for a while but I agree that he has been poor this series.
    For me he can come back as a batsman but his spin or the lack of is the most worrying aspect. Even Root puts more revs on the ball and the bits i watched, even taking into the road nature of the pitch his revs on the ball would be less than what you find in the Birmingham league. This may be due to the finger or poor wrist position at the time of the release but the spin is negligible.

  72. #2072
    Debut
    Nov 2007
    Runs
    23,449
    Mentioned
    670 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This series has proved the fact that he is nowhere close to Stokes.
    Not necessarily - he has been carrying an injury all series which has rendered him powerless with the ball. But I thought he would get a century somewhere. He plays spin better than Stokes but Lyon has tied him in knots. A horror tour for him.

    Drop him and give Crane a run. He’s a tailender but Moeen is not scoring runs anyway.

  73. #2073
    Debut
    Sep 2015
    Runs
    7,212
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    *Moeen.

    Moeen scored two centuries in India and was arguably one of their best batsmen on tour. He wasn't very good with the ball but then the pitches in that series were nowhere as spin-friendly as the pitches Australia played on.

    How does his failures here put Stokes in a better light? At least Moeen did not throw his team under the bus. Ashwin? Lol. Moeen may be "turning out to be a HTB" but Ashwin is already one of the biggest HTBs of this era. Shakib was always the best test all-rounder in the world. Ali and Stokes are joint-second. Ashwin is no all-rounder, simply a bowler who bats a bit.



    Yeah, Stokes has been fantastic in this Ashes series.
    Moeen did well with the bat in India but a lot was expected from him with the bowl. Indian conditions are where he could maximize his run scoring as well as taking wickets because those conditions suit his game the most. However, he was a flop with the bowl and did fared well with the bat. In Australia, he is having an absolute horror show with both bat and field.

    Stokes is better because he was the man of the series in England win to South Africa in South Africa and won a match in Bangladesh with his all round performance. He also did well last time in Australia and was good with bowl even in India.

    Ashwin's batting has been pretty poor these days but I still back him to get some useful runs abroad where his batting will be of a lot use. Yes, his all round skills are under question but he is still one of the leading spinner in the world and if he can average over 30 with bat with some standout performance against better sides, he will be rated as a genuine all rounder and a very good one. As a cricketer, he is well ahead of Moeen.

  74. #2074
    Debut
    Mar 2016
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    19,469
    Mentioned
    286 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    It's been a poor for series and it has proven Moen cannot be relied on as a role spinner and he has shown he doesn't have the temperament to bat up the order.

  75. #2075
    Debut
    Apr 2010
    Runs
    846
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Looks like Moeen will be dropped for this final test, based on what I am reading from Root and Bairstow in the papers. I feel for him.

    He did have a tough tour but all commentators (including the English ones) were gunning from him pretty much after 1st test. He struggled with unlucky injuries throughout the tour and fell even further when everyone wanted to throw him under the bus immediately.

    TBH, unconscious bias has played a major role in how Moeen Ali has been welcomed by English pundits and journalists. Often it was so blatant, I am sure it could have even been conscious bias. I doubt that if he were white he would have been subject to the same level of abuse and dismissiveness as he has had to endure. Remember, only two months ago, the English were calling him one of the best all rounders ever in English history! A white player with that kind of pedigree would have been shown way more patience and support.

    He seems like a strong person internally, and I hope he will continue to enjoy his cricket. Your fans know the score Ali, and will continue to love your talent and your calm, humble and compassionate personality.

  76. #2076
    Debut
    Jan 2006
    Venue
    Yorkshire
    Runs
    36,831
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Ashley Giles got loads of abuse and he was a white Englishman.

  77. #2077
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Ashley Giles got loads of abuse and he was a white Englishman.
    So in what ways is this point of yours relevant to Moeen Ali ?


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  78. #2078
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    He shouldn't have been picked if he wasn't 100% then again options have been very thin for England and others had let them down severely. His preparations have been far from ideal and he came into the series very green, however he was not expected to do anything special with the ball; AUS has been very cruel to touring spinners but he'd be disappointed for not contributing with the bat. He will remain a crucial member of the Test team moving forward though and I expect him to bounce back.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  79. #2079
    Debut
    Mar 2010
    Runs
    24,689
    Mentioned
    4400 Post(s)
    Tagged
    22 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by FreePalestine View Post
    Looks like Moeen will be dropped for this final test, based on what I am reading from Root and Bairstow in the papers. I feel for him.

    He did have a tough tour but all commentators (including the English ones) were gunning from him pretty much after 1st test. He struggled with unlucky injuries throughout the tour and fell even further when everyone wanted to throw him under the bus immediately.

    TBH, unconscious bias has played a major role in how Moeen Ali has been welcomed by English pundits and journalists. Often it was so blatant, I am sure it could have even been conscious bias. I doubt that if he were white he would have been subject to the same level of abuse and dismissiveness as he has had to endure. Remember, only two months ago, the English were calling him one of the best all rounders ever in English history! A white player with that kind of pedigree would have been shown way more patience and support.

    He seems like a strong person internally, and I hope he will continue to enjoy his cricket. Your fans know the score Ali, and will continue to love your talent and your calm, humble and compassionate personality.
    Don't judge how Mo is welcomed by pundits and journalists but it would be better to judge that by how his team have welcomed him and the patience / support which he has enjoyed from them, he has played 48 Tests which vindicates just that and majority of the fans support him to.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  80. #2080
    Debut
    Aug 2010
    Venue
    Sheffield
    Runs
    27,883
    Mentioned
    891 Post(s)
    Tagged
    12 Thread(s)
    So a guy who gets a cut on his spinning finger is made to play all four Tests despite not being able to spin the ball, and gets destroyed.

    Meanwhile you don't want to play your backup spinner because he's played only a handful of FC games and is very raw, leaving no option but persist with an unfit player rapidly losing confidence.

    Bayliss and Whittaker logic ladies and gentlemen.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •