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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    An allrounder who isn't a world class batsman or a world class bowler, how would you define him?
    Shahid Afridi...

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    If he is top top and world class how is he not better than Shehzad and U Akmal.
    He's not world class by any means

    I doubt he ever will be either


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  3. #243
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    Didn't play the short ball too well. But then again, many have fallen to the bouncers from .... oh wait.

  4. #244
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    Looks susceptible to Spin and Short bowling. Safe to say MJ would eat him alive.

  5. #245
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    Really poor performance from Moeen

    He needs to go back on the county scene and work on his natural game


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  6. #246
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    Moeen looks comfortable against county style bowlers like BK and Shami pitch it up swing type bowlers. But against good spinners and the short stuff he looks suspect. Think he should be persisted with in LOIS. Not sure about him in Tests.

  7. #247
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    He got out to Sharma and looked poor against the short ball overall.

    He looked even worse against spin. Dunno how he made that 180* against Herath in a similar situation.

  8. #248
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    Moeen bhai has disappointed in this series so far. Should have kicked on after that terrific ton vs SL.

  9. #249
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    Huge weakness against the short ball, got out in a similiar fashion in the first test as well, will be bombarded with them by all the teams, if he doesn't rectify it soon his career will be over before it begins. Especially since he's playing for England, Aussies will destroy him in the Ashes.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He's not in the top category in either facet which suggests he's pretty average? An allrounder who isn't a world class batsman or a world class bowler, how would you define him?
    He is part of the rare breed of all rounders who are genuine all rounders. At the moment in the top 10 test all rounder rankings, only two such specimens exist, Shakib and Watson. Would you call them world class in either facet? But they are better than the rest of the top 10 in at least one facet. Moeen I believe is/can be also better than the top 10 in one facet (apart from Shakib and Watson).

    I understand there is a fine line because low quality genuine all rounders are in essence bits and pieces players. Hafeez is a good example of a quality genuine all rounder in LOIs but a bits and pieces test player. But I think Moeen has the potential to be a quality test all rounder.
    Last edited by talha3; 21st July 2014 at 13:19.

  11. #251
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    Watson is not Test class though and neither is Shakib. Actually there are no Test class allrounders these days.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    Moeen looks comfortable against county style bowlers like BK and Shami pitch it up swing type bowlers. But against good spinners and the short stuff he looks suspect. Think he should be persisted with in LOIS. Not sure about him in Tests.
    Remind us all how many runs you've scored in Test cricket ?

  13. #253
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    Could we rename this thread

    'Moeen Ali performance watch from armchair 'experts' who've no class or skill themselves but have all day to troll those who do"

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    Remind us all how many runs you've scored in Test cricket ?
    Lol whats with the ********. I have just made a judgement on Moeen from what ive seen so far. Dont tell me youre one of the Bhai club

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Watson is not Test class though and neither is Shakib. Actually there are no Test class allrounders these days.
    A sad truth.

    Although Mathews can be match-winning all rounder for SL

  16. #256
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    Some brilliant logic by s28.



    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  17. #257
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    It was a solid innings by Moeen Bhai

    101 partnership.

    Got out to a brute of a delivery

  18. #258
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    I thought Moeen battled away well, almost made it to lunch. He values his wicket and hopefully he will learn from his mistakes. A permanent fixture to come, I love the way he is generally not flustered.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    Could we rename this thread

    'Moeen Ali performance watch from armchair 'experts' who've no class or skill themselves but have all day to troll those who do"
    Seems like you have let the beard blind you. How was i trolling about Moeen i was just giving an observation. He has looked all at sea against Jadeja. Got out twice to Herath. It shows he isnt that comfortable vs Spin. He has got out twice to short balls also looks very uncomfortable against Short Stuff. But he plays medium pace with ease. I like Moeens style but he has a few flaws to work out on.

  20. #260
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    Moeen looked at ease against Bhuvi and Shami.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    Remind us all how many runs you've scored in Test cricket ?


    Then no one on here is qualified to have an opinion?

  22. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Watson is not Test class though and neither is Shakib. Actually there are no Test class allrounders these days.
    True although as someone mentioned, Mathews could be one for the future if he bowls more regularly.

  23. #263
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    s28 seriously?

  24. #264
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    He deserves to get into the team on his bowling alone.......people seem to forget his bowling figures.
    Two drop catches. He seems to get good batsmen out. Not just tailenders.
    Sangh x 2, Dhawan, Jadeja......Contributed in two big partnerships in this test.

    Its about talent and stats, not beard, not colour, not religion.
    He deserves his chance, just like Root, Balance......

  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    Remind us all how many runs you've scored in Test cricket ?
    I knew an emotional bloke would pop up into this thread sooner rather than later. s28 it is.

  26. #266
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    he's done pretty well up till now and I think he should get more of a chance. Does ned to make some more scores above fifty this series though. The sad part is he's always coming in when eng have lost their top three cheaply.

  27. #267
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    I got confronted by a similar one from @Bilal7 a few weeks ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Have you ever played on the stage that he's playing, even in your dreams?

  28. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    I got confronted by a similar one from @Bilal7 a few weeks ago:
    lol..."have you ever held a cricket bat?" shurum nahin ati! lol

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varun View Post
    I got confronted by a similar one from @Bilal7 a few weeks ago:
    Yes, pick a quote totally out of context, well done. You were saying that Moeen wasn't a role-model because he's only started his international career, I corrected you by saying that playing even one international match is a great honour and millions (billions?) of people only dream about representing their country on the highest stage.

    Moeen played well today but he has a flaw in his batting which is that he takes his eyes off the ball at times. He got out to the short ball in similar fashion when he looked away and didn't see that the ball had stayed low. Needs to sort this out and brush up his game against the spinners and he can be a long-term batsman for England.

    His bowling is settling down too, should bowl within his limits and the wickets will come. I felt like he was trying to get a wicket every ball which got him hit around for runs.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    If he is top top and world class how is he not better than Shehzad and U Akmal.
    Because the class and calibre of Umar & Shehzad is so high.

  31. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Because the class and calibre of Umar & Shehzad is so high.
    Umar is a dynamic LOI batsman better than Moeen. However Moeen has a small sample size. Shehzad atm is better than Moeen but Umar and Shehzad arent world class. Umar has potential to be though

  32. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adil_94 View Post
    Umar is a dynamic LOI batsman better than Moeen. However Moeen has a small sample size. Shehzad atm is better than Moeen but Umar and Shehzad arent world class. Umar has potential to be though
    Umar has achieved alot more than Moeen and has better stats to back it up
    Plus he makes for a better all rounder too


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  33. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Great Khan View Post
    he's done pretty well up till now and I think he should get more of a chance. Does ned to make some more scores above fifty this series though. The sad part is he's always coming in when eng have lost their top three cheaply.
    I think the stellar ton against SL bought him the right to play this full series. He has contributed a fair amount. Definitely needs another century to cement his position though.

  34. #274
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    average player....can't play spin ....can't play short balls....can't score quick runs....can't bowl decent spin.....why is there a separate thread for him?

  35. #275
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    Seems to have got alot of starts without really taking an inns by scruff of the neck and showing the real talent he has, should be given rest of series to perform but needs to score another 100 atleast in series or play a match defining knock to show he can do it at this level consistantly.

  36. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_Drive View Post
    average player....can't play spin ....can't play short balls....can't score quick runs....can't bowl decent spin.....why is there a separate thread for him?
    - Can play spin as evidenced by a century against an attack containing Herath.
    - Can play the short ball as evidenced by some good pull-shots in the shorter formats.
    - Can score quick runs as evidenced by his List A SR of around 100 and a healthy SR in LOIs..
    - Can bowl decent spin as evidenced by him getting Sanga and Kohli out and being the main spinner for his FC side.

    A separate thread because he's a quality player.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  37. #277
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    -Can play spin as evidenced by a century against an attack containing Herath (but couldn't play jadeja)
    - Can play the short ball as evidenced by some good pull-shots in the shorter formats.(but couldn't face ishant's bouncers)
    - Can score quick runs as evidenced by his List A SR of around 100 and a healthy SR in LOIs..(strike rate of 36(lol) in tests)
    - Can bowl decent spin as evidenced by him getting Sanga and Kohli out and being the main spinner for his FC side.( Did not get kohli out....stop telling lies....and even if he did get sanga (which i did not check) , 1 ball doesn't make him a good spinner)
    A separate thread because he's a quality player. (mediocre player ....will fall off the grid in few months...mark my words)

  38. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_Drive View Post
    -Can play spin as evidenced by a century against an attack containing Herath (but couldn't play jadeja)
    - Can play the short ball as evidenced by some good pull-shots in the shorter formats.(but couldn't face ishant's bouncers)
    - Can score quick runs as evidenced by his List A SR of around 100 and a healthy SR in LOIs..(strike rate of 36(lol) in tests)
    - Can bowl decent spin as evidenced by him getting Sanga and Kohli out and being the main spinner for his FC side.( Did not get kohli out....stop telling lies....and even if he did get sanga (which i did not check) , 1 ball doesn't make him a good spinner)
    A separate thread because he's a quality player. (mediocre player ....will fall off the grid in few months...mark my words)
    It would have been nice if you were here a few months back when India played Nz or SA

  39. #279
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    Ali will be hoping Ajmal comes back to Worcestershire next season because Ali's bowling will have developed a fair bit by then and working with Ajmal again would do him a lot of good.

  40. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz95 View Post
    It would have been nice if you were here a few months back when India played Nz or SA
    apparently he was there but lurking ....Anyways Moeen is a good prospect but needs to work on some chinks in his batting. I can't see him surviving against Johnson as they would have already seen this series and will be planning a barrage of short pitched bowling against him. All Aussie pacemen are 90+ miles/hour bowlers. If Ishant with 80-85 mph can trouble him, he is going to struggle against Johnson & Co. He has had a decent start to his career and can be a great asset for England with his part time off spin. He needs to work on his scoring options though in tests and up his SR to between 45-50...Otherwise he will end up like Carberry who spent lots of time in the middle and when he got out he had hardly scored 40.

  41. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by giri26 View Post
    apparently he was there but lurking ....Anyways Moeen is a good prospect but needs to work on some chinks in his batting. I can't see him surviving against Johnson as they would have already seen this series and will be planning a barrage of short pitched bowling against him. All Aussie pacemen are 90+ miles/hour bowlers. If Ishant with 80-85 mph can trouble him, he is going to struggle against Johnson & Co. He has had a decent start to his career and can be a great asset for England with his part time off spin. He needs to work on his scoring options though in tests and up his SR to between 45-50...Otherwise he will end up like Carberry who spent lots of time in the middle and when he got out he had hardly scored 40.
    True, I agree. However even barring this I reckon he can become a useful LOI cricketer. He can crank it up but in all his situations so far he's needed to tuk tuk.

  42. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_Drive View Post
    -Can play spin as evidenced by a century against an attack containing Herath (but couldn't play jadeja)
    - Can play the short ball as evidenced by some good pull-shots in the shorter formats.(but couldn't face ishant's bouncers)
    - Can score quick runs as evidenced by his List A SR of around 100 and a healthy SR in LOIs..(strike rate of 36(lol) in tests)
    - Can bowl decent spin as evidenced by him getting Sanga and Kohli out and being the main spinner for his FC side.( Did not get kohli out....stop telling lies....and even if he did get sanga (which i did not check) , 1 ball doesn't make him a good spinner)
    A separate thread because he's a quality player. (mediocre player ....will fall off the grid in few months...mark my words)
    You're changing the argument. You said he can't do those things which I proved wrong by stating facts. I never said he'll always do those things, now did I?

    He definitely got Sanga but I may be wrong about Kohli. I do remember Prior dropping a catch which would have gotten Kohli out off his bowling though.

    Nope, all the experts agree that he's a quality player.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  43. #283
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    Moeen bhai has been found lacking at this level.

  44. #284
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    His handling of the short-pitched stuff is so very sub-continental. Reminds me of Raina.


    I am not one of those who when expressing opinions confine themselves to facts.

  45. #285
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    You know you have no chance at this level when Bhuvi exposes your short ball weakness.

  46. #286
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    Mediocre player. Can't see him lasting in tests beyond this series BUT I can see him succeeding in ODIs.

  47. #287
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    A very very very poor man's Amla.

  48. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackThunder View Post
    You know you have no chance at this level when Bhuvi exposes your short ball weakness.


    If Moeen reads this comment, he might quit cricket out of shame.

    Seriously though, has a bunch of weaknesses.

    Can't play off spin.
    Can't play bounce.

    And he hasn't even toured SC countries where it spins like crazy or faced SA or Aus bowling attacks.

    Very tough period ahead for him.

    Needs to work on his game.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 28th July 2014 at 15:27.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  49. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    A very very very poor man's Amla.
    might as well say poor man's Sachin or Dravid.

  50. #290
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    Remember guys, this guy was already better than Amla after he made his 1st century.

  51. #291
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    Amla bhai is at a different level to everyone, even Tendulkar bows down in shame.

  52. #292
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    Ya Tendy must because he is a choker is tests and WC finals

  53. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You're changing the argument. You said he can't do those things which I proved wrong by stating facts. I never said he'll always do those things, now did I?

    He definitely got Sanga but I may be wrong about Kohli. I do remember Prior dropping a catch which would have gotten Kohli out off his bowling though.

    Nope, all the experts agree that he's a quality player.
    lol.....I told ya he can't play the short ball

  54. #294
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    Needs to work on short deliveries. Like Nasser was saying, he needs to play with Tennis ball in Nets.

  55. #295
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    shot selection and execution comes into question

    his style of play, flair and flamboyance is more suited to limited overs cricket.

    i think he should open in odis and come in at number 3 into t20's.


    big ? mark on whether he should be in test team at no 6

  56. #296
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    Moeen will be good in LOIS but he needs to really sort his technical flaws out if he wants to succeed at this level
    Last edited by Adil_94; 28th July 2014 at 18:00.

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    Moeen is made for the 2nd innings.

  58. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    I am little bit concerned about our batsman playing spin.

    The Fab 4 used to smash spinners but rarely ever got out to them.

    This generation smashes spinners but they get out to them.

    One wrong session can turn this spinner bashing into a self inflicted defeat.

    Just a feeling I get.


    Yup my concerns weren't baseless.

    Indian batsmen are still the best at playing spin. We do smash bowlers but we are getting out more often these days.

    Its a serious issue.

    We have been too busy calling Moeen Ali's bowling as harmless (which it is) that we haven't noticed that he is the one who is laughing at us.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  59. #299
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    As if Moeen has 9 wickets in the series. He has looked as dangerous as a kitten

  60. #300
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    Moeen bhai lacks that cutting edge required for a first choice Test spinner. This makes me think how blessed we are in the spin department. If Hafeez was English he would be their main spinner.
    Last edited by Mamoon; 29th July 2014 at 16:50.

  61. #301
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    we should start a new thread Moen Ali[ controversy watch] ....that thread will be more active

  62. #302
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    Don't rate him much as a Test batsman even though it's very early, I think he should stick to ODI/T20 but cant see him being slotted at in the ODI team

    the way he is playing now is more of an all rounder, he is a batsman.

  63. #303
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    Indians have simply gifted wickets to him. Doesn't look that threatening with the ball.

  64. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    Indians have simply gifted wickets to him. Doesn't look that threatening with the ball.
    Two long hops according to the commentators

    His batting has been abysmal as well, drop him


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  65. #305
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    Moen Ali got 2 lucky wickets today. The 2 wicket balls should have gone for a 4 or 6. Very soft dismissals.

    Indian batsmen are treating Moen like a piece of meat. Trying to hunt him and falling by being over aggressive at time.

  66. #306
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    No matter what going down the track to attack Moeen Ali was risky (even if it was 10%) and we could not afford that risk at that juncture. Binny did the same twice. When he clicked, it was raved. When he flopped, he was thrown out.

    Rahane's ball though should have been dispatched.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 29th July 2014 at 19:20.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  67. #307
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    Doing a pretty good job at the mo as an allrounder - two more big wkts to his name


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back

  68. #308
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    He got two proper batsmen out, he got rahane twice.

    9 wickets, not bad for a part timer.

  69. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketrenew View Post
    He got two proper batsmen out, he got rahane twice.

    9 wickets, not bad for a part timer.
    Yep, desperately needs to score runs though. Him being a spinner (not sure if there is another specialist spinner in the squad) and those 9 wickets have saved him during this series and he may survive until the next test match even if he fails with the bat during Englands 2nd innings.

    He is in the team for his batting though, desperately needs to get a hundred.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  70. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glen77 View Post
    Remember guys, this guy was already better than Amla after he made his 1st century.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    A very very very poor man's Amla.
    Two very knee-jerk reactions from Mamoon bhai. Better pressure player than Amla after one century and now a poor man's Amla after 4 tests. Please, their similarities are the beard. Couldn't be more different batting wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_Drive View Post
    lol.....I told ya he can't play the short ball
    Look up the definition of 'can'.

    Quote Originally Posted by mithun_minhas View Post
    Moen Ali got 2 lucky wickets today. The 2 wicket balls should have gone for a 4 or 6. Very soft dismissals.

    Indian batsmen are treating Moen like a piece of meat. Trying to hunt him and falling by being over aggressive at time.
    And missed out on tw wickets, one when Rahane was on 8. These things balance out over time.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  71. #311
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    He takes his eyes off the ball which is proving to be his downfall. Just be brave enough and keep watching the ball, Ali, I'm sure it won't hit you through that helmet. Other than that, he needs to work on his footwork against the spinners and he'll become a good batsman at the test level.

    Bowling wise, his control should be spot-on so he gives Cook the option of bowling him from one end while rotating the seamers from the other. The wickets will come when batsmen try to take him on or they'll come from the other end.

    He definitely belongs at the test level, just a few issues to iron out and can become one of the best test all-rounders around, probably the best considering the competition.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  72. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Two very knee-jerk reactions from Mamoon bhai. Better pressure player than Amla after one century and now a poor man's Amla after 4 tests. Please, their similarities are the beard. Couldn't be more different batting wise.



    Look up the definition of 'can'.



    And missed out on tw wickets, one when Rahane was on 8. These things balance out over time.
    Why even pay attention to his posts? your eyes will start to hurt trust me, my eyes close when i see his username on PP. The most baqwas poster of all time, he has to chat garbage to get his daily dose of attention in the realms of virtual reality.

    And despite those 2 wickets were a little lucky what about the other 7? and throughout the series he has been unlucky with the ball as well. I remember kholi had clearly knicked it but the umps disagreed.
    Last edited by shaz619; 29th July 2014 at 20:22.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  73. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    He takes his eyes off the ball which is proving to be his downfall. Just be brave enough and keep watching the ball, Ali, I'm sure it won't hit you through that helmet. Other than that, he needs to work on his footwork against the spinners and he'll become a good batsman at the test level.

    Bowling wise, his control should be spot-on so he gives Cook the option of bowling him from one end while rotating the seamers from the other. The wickets will come when batsmen try to take him on or they'll come from the other end.

    He definitely belongs at the test level, just a few issues to iron out and can become one of the best test all-rounders around, probably the best considering the competition.
    He can be the guy to finally fill the void left by Paul Collingwood, am sure he'll find a way to overcome flaws in his technique. At the county level at one point he didn't know where his off stump was and he'd always get out leaving deliveries but he fixed that. With his bowling all he needs to do is improve his accuracy, he aint the type to get too many revs on the ball anyway i think he doesn't need to search for that magic delivery just bowl accurately wicket to wicket and when they try and attack him like you say he'll pick up wickets.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  74. #314
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    That was tongue-in-cheek, Bilal bhai. Amla's bhai's class is in unparalleled.

  75. #315
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    And you should a little extra faith in Moeen bhai. Remember Amla bhai was very ordinary initially and was badly exposed before he went back and remodeled his game. Whose to say Moeen bhai won't follow in his footsteps? He may as well be the next Amla.

    Power of the beard, don't underestimate it.

  76. #316
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    In terms of wickets, he has done a decent job but his bowling doesn't have the spark.
    Last edited by Mamoon; 29th July 2014 at 20:37.

  77. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    And you should a little extra faith in Moeen bhai. Remember Amla bhai was very ordinary initially and was badly exposed before he went back and remodeled his game. Whose to say Moeen bhai won't follow in his footsteps? He may as well be the next Amla.

    Power of the beard, don't underestimate it.
    You're just proving shaz right. Eid key din to troll nah karo, yaar.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  78. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Why even pay attention to his posts? your eyes will start to hurt trust me, my eyes close when i see his username on PP. The most baqwas poster of all time, he has to chat garbage to get his daily dose of attention in the realms of virtual reality.

  79. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    He can be the guy to finally fill the void left by Paul Collingwood, am sure he'll find a way to overcome flaws in his technique. At the county level at one point he didn't know where his off stump was and he'd always get out leaving deliveries but he fixed that. With his bowling all he needs to do is improve his accuracy, he aint the type to get too many revs on the ball anyway i think he doesn't need to search for that magic delivery just bowl accurately wicket to wicket and when they try and attack him like you say he'll pick up wickets.
    Yes, good post. Only 27, can still play at the top level for 8-10 years.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  80. #320
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    Are you denying that Amla bhai didn't transform himself? TBF, Moeen bhai has looked far better in his first stint compared to Amla bhai.

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