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  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Are you denying that Amla bhai didn't transform himself? TBF, Moeen bhai has looked far better in his first stint compared to Amla bhai.
    I'm not but he'll have to do something amazing to get himself to Amla's level. Moeen doesn't look future-ATG material.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Yep, desperately needs to score runs though. Him being a spinner (not sure if there is another specialist spinner in the squad) and those 9 wickets have saved him during this series and he may survive until the next test match even if he fails with the bat during Englands 2nd innings.

    He is in the team for his batting though, desperately needs to get a hundred.
    It will only take one match without wickets and runs for him to be dropped....so either he takes 5 wickets or scores big runs...
    match after match.

    He will not got the same chance as other players, so he needs to perform every match which is impossible.
    I think people on this forum expecting too much of him and they will be disappointed.

  3. #323
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    Moeen bhai should focus on his LOI career for now. Amla bhai beasted in ODIs long before Tests.

    Think the allrounder job in all three formats at the moment is too much for him. England should find a new spinner, replace Robson with James Taylor (fantastic batsman) and Make Root open. I think he's ready now and will do a better job this time around.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketrenew View Post
    It will only take one match without wickets and runs for him to be dropped....so either he takes 5 wickets or scores big runs...
    match after match.

    He will not got the same chance as other players, so he needs to perform every match which is impossible.
    I think people on this forum expecting too much of him and they will be disappointed.
    Think we're being overly pessimistic about his chances. He's gotten fair chances up until now and not being trusted as a spinner is down to Cook being a timid captain more than anything. Another century and he'll cement his place until the next Ashes.

    Would you be willing to give a guy a free run in the Pakistan test team on the basis of one amazing century? Look at all the heat that Shafiq gets.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    Think we're being overly pessimistic about his chances. He's gotten fair chances up until now and not being trusted as a spinner is down to Cook being a timid captain more than anything. Another century and he'll cement his place until the next Ashes.

    Would you be willing to give a guy a free run in the Pakistan test team on the basis of one amazing century? Look at all the heat that Shafiq gets.
    In the Pakistan team, people do get amazing runs in the team without actually doing anything.... Farhat, S Malik etc...

    As long as Cook, Bell, Broad are captain he won't get a decent chance with the ball......

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketrenew View Post
    It will only take one match without wickets and runs for him to be dropped....so either he takes 5 wickets or scores big runs...
    match after match.

    He will not got the same chance as other players, so he needs to perform every match which is impossible.
    I think people on this forum expecting too much of him and they will be disappointed.
    Look at how well Ben Stokes performed during the ashes and England did not hesitate to drop him given his lack of form during the India series. Monty Panesar had a good enough run before his off field issues cost him is place in the England team, i don't think England discriminate against south asians. To be honest has there ever been a British Asian player that was really really good?


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketrenew View Post
    In the Pakistan team, people do get amazing runs in the team without actually doing anything.... Farhat, S Malik etc...

    As long as Cook, Bell, Broad are captain he won't get a decent chance with the ball......
    I think that's more to do with his lack of imagination, i guess you bring up this point because during the last test match i think Moeen was bowling well but he took him off.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  8. #328
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    @Cricketrenew now that we are taliking about this topic Ajmal Shehzad comes to mind, i felt he was good but dont kmow what happened to him. I read he had attitude problems.....nt sure though.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Look at how well Ben Stokes performed during the ashes and England did not hesitate to drop him given his lack of form during the India series. Monty Panesar had a good enough run before his off field issues cost him is place in the England team, i don't think England discriminate against south asians. To be honest has there ever been a British Asian player that was really really good?
    Bopara was messed around after a good start like Balance. Panesar didn't get a proper run in the side after a good start.

    Moeen not getting credit today for Rohit wicket, the ball went outwards...it was good, Rohit should have gone inside out etc...

    In the Pakistan team, Asim Kamal against India ages ago, Haider the wicker keeper were dropped after good perofrmances or some excuse........

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketrenew View Post
    Bopara was messed around after a good start like Balance. Panesar didn't get a proper run in the side after a good start.

    Moeen not getting credit today for Rohit wicket, the ball went outwards...it was good, Rohit should have gone inside out etc...

    In the Pakistan team, Asim Kamal against India ages ago, Haider the wicker keeper were dropped after good perofrmances or some excuse........
    Panesar played 49 Test Matches for England, Swann kept him out for most of the time given he was better but he remained the no.2 spinner for them until he decided to screw things up for himself.

    Bopara made 3 centuries in a row and was selected for the ashes series where the following scores followed, 35, one, 18, 27, 23, one and a duck. He played 13 Test matches for England, average of 31. His career was prolonged when the selectors decided he would be more suitable for limited forms of the game.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  11. #331
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    The Brit Asians have just not been good enough, Panesar was the best of the pack and if his act was together he'd be Englands no.1 one spin bowling option after Swanns retirement.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  12. #332
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    You guys reckon that England will keep him if he become a player who averages 35 with both bat and ball, while being economical while bowling and aggressive when batting?


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  13. #333
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    I like him. He keeps taking important wicket in every game some how!

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkCooper View Post
    I like him. He keeps taking important wicket in every game some how!
    Fear the beard! Catchphrase might... catch on. Worcs must be pleased.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  15. #335
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    Moen bhai is a class act @Mamoon bhai

  16. #336
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    I actually don't think he has a problem with the short ball I just think he is a bit dozy. Every side has a dozy cricketer.

    I am not worried.

    I am sure he will do fine.

  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    You guys reckon that England will keep him if he become a player who averages 35 with both bat and ball, while being economical while bowling and aggressive when batting?
    He is a specialist batsman and the wickets he gets are a big bonus, if we see him as an A/R then his competition would be Ben Stokes and Chris Woaks. But since he is being played as a specialist batsman i think? his bowling will be a big advantage in his selection, especially in the sub continent. Not sure i think maybe close to 40 with the bat and 35 with the ball would be perfect personally i'd take 35 with ball and bat.

    I think he is capable of averaging 40 with the bat and 35 with the ball.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  18. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkCooper View Post
    I actually don't think he has a problem with the short ball I just think he is a bit dozy. Every side has a dozy cricketer.

    I am not worried.

    I am sure he will do fine.
    I agree, i think the bigger issue is his footwork against spin.


    Ah, so this is what it feels like

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cricketrenew View Post
    It will only take one match without wickets and runs for him to be dropped....so either he takes 5 wickets or scores big runs...
    match after match.

    He will not got the same chance as other players, so he needs to perform every match which is impossible.
    I think people on this forum expecting too much of him and they will be disappointed.
    He'l get exactly the same chances as every other number 6, which if he scores lightly in the second innings again should mean he gets dropped


    "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles"

  20. #340
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    Done well to get Rahane out twice

  21. #341
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    His hundred vs SL should keep him in the team till the end of this series at least.

    His bowling is seriously underrated. Averaging 35 against India on these pitches is remarkable.

  22. #342
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    Really wish he had gotten that Rahane decision in his favor today


    Moeen & Root: The future of English Cricket.

  23. #343
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    Good going Ali. Massive performances even in the start of his Test career.

    Going to improve and evolve as he plays more cricket.


    At the end of a stressful, depressing day, a dose of cricket is what can cheer us up.

  24. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    He is a specialist batsman and the wickets he gets are a big bonus, if we see him as an A/R then his competition would be Ben Stokes and Chris Woaks. But since he is being played as a specialist batsman i think? his bowling will be a big advantage in his selection, especially in the sub continent. Not sure i think maybe close to 40 with the bat and 35 with the ball would be perfect personally i'd take 35 with ball and bat.

    I think he is capable of averaging 40 with the bat and 35 with the ball.


    I think so too. Might even get that bowling average below 35 if he develops his doosra enough.


    لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله

  25. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaz619 View Post
    Panesar played 49 Test Matches for England, Swann kept him out for most of the time given he was better but he remained the no.2 spinner for them until he decided to screw things up for himself.

    Bopara made 3 centuries in a row and was selected for the ashes series where the following scores followed, 35, one, 18, 27, 23, one and a duck. He played 13 Test matches for England, average of 31. His career was prolonged when the selectors decided he would be more suitable for limited forms of the game.
    Stokes, Robson see if they get better or equal chance in future....look at Stokes record with the bat in the last 8 games......

  26. #346
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    Indian top order bunnies to Moeen spin

  27. #347
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    Bit like Kumar Sangakarra as well

  28. #348
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    Pujara off his second ball, too easy


    Moeen & Root: The future of English Cricket.

  29. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkCooper View Post
    I like him. He keeps taking important wicket in every game some how!
    that is the key meaningful wickets

    noticeable Cook starting to trust him more

  30. #350
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    All this talk of needing a 'frontline spinner' is baloney, Moeen is a frontline spinner, he just also bats.

  31. #351
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    Moeen bhai doesn't have the spark and inventiveness of a frontline spinner, but perhaps I have Ajmal in mind.

  32. #352
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    Spinners mature late so he has a few years to go to develop yet

    10 wickets so far in a Test series against India is superb and we are only half way through

  33. #353
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    He hasn't earned half of them.

  34. #354
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    Michael Holding and Strauss liking it

    as the pros say , look in the scorebook

  35. #355
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    Just had Dhawan plumb LBW but umpire failed to give it

  36. #356
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    Strauss 'end of another good over from Moeen'

  37. #357
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    Seen enough of him. About time he gets the respect he deserves as a bowler. Not great by any means, but still, a good spinner. Add his batting, and he becomes an English version of Jadeja.

  38. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electron View Post
    Seen enough of him. About time he gets the respect he deserves as a bowler. Not great by any means, but still, a good spinner. Add his batting, and he becomes an English version of Jadeja.
    don't if you are insulting jadeja or praising Moen...Moen as a long way to go before he can be called Sir Moen

  39. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight_Drive View Post
    don't if you are insulting jadeja or praising Moen...Moen as a long way to go before he can be called Sir Moen
    Goes without saying. How dare you even think otherwise ?

  40. #360
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    Just got a 'well bowled' from Shane Warne in the commentary box

  41. #361
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    Got Dhawan plumb.

    Not given.

  42. #362
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    We have shown way too much respect to Moeen Bhai need to take him on and crush his confidence.

  43. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electron View Post
    Goes without saying. How dare you even think otherwise ?
    jaddu doesnt have a test match brain, he cant be a test spinner !

  44. #364
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    As average as they come. I feel for England when this guy is best of the lot. He is hardly a poor man's Hafeez.

  45. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    Got Dhawan plumb.

    Not given.
    that's what you get for messing with BCCI ....we make the rules

  46. #366
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    Indian top order falling to England 'part-time spinners'

  47. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    Indian top order falling to England 'part-time spinners'
    and to be honest they are not even pitching on the roughs, its all pressure !

  48. #368
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    Kohli GONE !

  49. #369
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    Moeen has taken most of Indian top order now in this match

    If he can do this to the best players of spin he will really run through other teams

    Unlucky with LBW decision earlier so should have 3-fer already today
    Last edited by s28; 30th July 2014 at 17:57.

  50. #370
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    Kohli gone

  51. #371
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    For all those saying he picks up wickets he doesn't deserve, both his wickets in the second innings were picked up off edges from bowling a good length around off.


    Moeen & Root: The future of English Cricket.

  52. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricfan967 View Post
    For all those saying he picks up wickets he doesn't deserve, both his wickets in the second innings were picked up off edges from bowling a good length around off.
    The wickets he got were again from harmless deliveries.

    Its unbeleivable that Indian batters are giving their wickets away to this gentle pie chucker.

  53. #373
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    He is a decent second spinner people are doing a slight disservice calling him a piechucker.

  54. #374
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    Moeen bhai has Duminy like golden arm.. To be honest, I think Root is better spinner than Moeen bhai


    ﺳُﺒْﺤَﺎﻥَ ﺍﻟﻠّﻪِ ﻭﺍﻟْﺤَﻤْﺪُﻟﻠّﻪِ ﻭَ ﻻ ﺍِﻟﻪَ ﺍِﻟَّﺎ ﺍﻟﻠّﻪُ ﻭَ ﺍﻟﻠّﻪُ ﺍَﻛْﺒَﺮُ
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  55. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithun_minhas View Post
    The wickets he got were again from harmless deliveries.

    Its unbeleivable that Indian batters are giving their wickets away to this gentle pie chucker.
    Its scoreboard and bowling pressure drawing the batsman into false strokes.

  56. #376
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    I am laughing and so is Moeen.

    Seen Indians on here and other forums attack him for his beard and other things and now look

    Hahahaha

  57. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet Drive View Post
    I am laughing and so is Moeen.

    Seen some Indian trolls on here and other forums attack him for his beard and other things and now look

    Hahahaha
    Fixed.

  58. #378
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    Moeen's bowling in good areas consistently and getting turn off the rough, don't understand how he's 'tossing pies'. Both dismissals were off defensive shots as well, perhaps a loss in concentration by the batsmen but credit to Ali where it's due.


    Moeen & Root: The future of English Cricket.

  59. #379
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    Moeen now 11 wickets at 32 so far in this series !

    Andrew Strauss saying people should stop with the 'part-time spinner' name calling.

  60. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by s28 View Post
    Moeen now 11 wickets at 32 so far in this series !

    Andrew Strauss saying people should stop with the 'part-time spinner' name calling.
    Strauss seems like a big time homer. Everytime the bat hits pad, he thinks its out. He screams like a 5 year old girl at her birthday party.

    Moen is not a bad bowler. Better than the likes of Indian part timers like Vjay and Rohit. But he is not a specialist spinner. He has a long way to go for that.

  61. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithun_minhas View Post
    Strauss seems like a big time homer. Everytime the bat hits pad, he thinks its out. He screams like a 5 year old girl at her birthday party.

    Moen is not a bad bowler. Better than the likes of Indian part timers like Vjay and Rohit. But he is not a specialist spinner. He has a long way to go for that.
    I think because Strauss has played with and is good mates with Cook Jimmy and Broad. Thats why he is so desperate for Cook and this England team to do well. After his buddies retire i think we will see a more impartial Strauss

  62. #382
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    Lol, he's missed out on atleast three certain wickets in this series off genuinely good deliveries, so its only fair that he's picked up a few cheap ones too.

    Been fantastic in this innings so far though, he's starting to gain the confidence of Cook and settle into a nice rhythym. His line was all over the place before but he's become more accurate.

    Definitely not a part-timer.
    Last edited by Bilal7; 30th July 2014 at 20:17.


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  63. #383
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    Don't rate his bowling. Has some potential with the bat.

  64. #384
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    Again people are using tunnel vision to look at the wickets column only and not gauging the quality of his bowling, with the latter suggesting that he's definitely not a front-line spinner.

  65. #385
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    He isn't a front-line spinner yet of Ajmal caliber, but he's developing his bowling and might even start bowling Doosra soon, as he is being trained by Ajmal.

    As of current form, he's better than Jadeja in Tests. Who knows what damage he can do to sides like AUS/NZ who are poor players of spin? MASSIVE potential there.

    Spinners mature late and he will become better with time. Add to it his batting, he becomes a complete package! Golden!

    Dare I say, he can even become better than Hafeez who is an ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC Test batsman! And not a wicket-taker spinner rather container.

    People not acknowledging the above points are just his haters/haters of beard. Full of bias and grudge.


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  66. #386
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    He's already a better Test batsman than Hafeez but not better as a bowler, at least not yet.

    Hafeez's bowling is vastly underrated and we have never seen what he's capable of as a bowler because he's always in the shadow of Ajmal.

    He will never been 1% the bowler Ajmal is no matter how hard he is coached by him.

  67. #387
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    Absolutely, it's far-fetched to think he'll reach the level of Ajmal. Ajju is ATG.

    Becoming even half of Ajmal will be a big achievement for him! He's being trained, if he can learn the Doosra, he'll be deadly. For now, he's better than Jadeja.

    I don't think he can surpass Hafeez as a bowler in ODIs, but in Tests, I believe he's very close to Hafeez.

    This guy has potential to become a great Test allrounder.
    Last edited by Hawkeye; 30th July 2014 at 20:37.


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  68. #388
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    If it was down to getting coached by a great player, the son of every legend would be as good as his father.

  69. #389
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    Not even half.

  70. #390
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    Why does he have to be a world class batsman or bowler? The fact that this is a debate suggests he arguably has potential in both facets, which suggests he has potential to be a world class ALL ROUNDER. I believe that is exactly what he can be.

  71. #391
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    Merely learning the doosra won't make him better. Even Malik could bowl it and probably still remembers how to, its about using it effectively.

    World class spinners have the brains for it and I haven't seen that intelligence and sharpness in his bowling.

  72. #392
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    Thin line b/w a world class allrounder and a jack of all trades, master of none.

  73. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye;6989841[B
    ]He isn't a front-line spinner yet of Ajmal caliber, but he's developing his bowling and might even start bowling Doosra soon, as he is being trained by Ajmal.[/B]

    As of current form, he's better than Jadeja in Tests. Who knows what damage he can do to sides like AUS/NZ who are poor players of spin? MASSIVE potential there.

    Spinners mature late and he will become better with time. Add to it his batting, he becomes a complete package! Golden!

    Dare I say, he can even become better than Hafeez who is an ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC Test batsman! And not a wicket-taker spinner rather container.

    People not acknowledging the above points are just his haters/haters of beard. Full of bias and grudge.
    True. He's not a great spinner but not a part-timer either. A decent front-line option for a team like England and with his batting can prove to be a valuable player for them.

    Similar player to Hafeez but he has more potential in the test format. In LOIs, he'll have a good career if he can match Hafeez.

    Couple more coaching sessions with Ajmal will be very helpful. Maybe Swann can chip in with some advice as well.


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  74. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    If it was down to getting coached by a great player, the son of every legend would be as good as his father.
    Coaching already has yielded excellent results. He's a much improved bowler.

    Remember, Moeen has already learnt the Dusra from Ajmal and the latter has confirmed it. Ali is just trying to perfect it before bowling in international matches.

    This guy has potential. Can be a great all-rounder as I said.


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  75. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Merely learning the doosra won't make him better. Even Malik could bowl it and probably still remembers how to, its about using it effectively.

    World class spinners have the brains for it and I haven't seen that intelligence and sharpness in his bowling.
    The intelligence is a big part of his game right now. Don't know what you're watching.

    The people who saw him against Lanka, where he was off radar, should watch him bowl in this innings. All over India in this innings.


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  76. #396
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    Coaching will only improve you to an extent. Rest is up to your potential.

    A mediocre player will remain mediocre no matter how hard he tries or how much he's coached.

    I won't call him mediocre, I think he can be a decent spinner but he will never be what you can genuinely call a true frontline spinner and a wicket taker.

  77. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bilal7 View Post
    The intelligence is a big part of his game right now. Don't know what you're watching.

    The people who saw him against Lanka, where he was off radar, should watch him bowl in this innings. All over India in this innings.
    He is not working the batsman enough for my liking and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to his bowling. Maybe lack of experience.

  78. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    He is not working the batsman enough for my liking and there doesn't seem to be a pattern to his bowling. Maybe lack of experience.
    How much working up do you need? Regularly made the batsmen edge the ball, misjudge the line, made the ball carry on with the angle, bowled off-breaks with a few straighter-ones as well. All that got him wickets.

    He will be a handful on turning pitches, especially if he can start bowling the doosra with some accuracy. He doesn't have to keep it as discreet as Ajmal or Saqi, he'll look like them for atleast a couple of series before the analysts pick his doosra.


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  79. #399
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    He was throwing random deliveries Kaneria style, with no seeming purpose behind any of the variations of his. Ajmal should also teach him how to play with a batsman's mind, if he's capable of learning.

  80. #400
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    He doesn't look to be a part timer looks much better spinner but still I think it's the pressure that is getting to the Indian batsmen. They are confused on how to play him..They didn't showed any respect by going for big shots. it's not a T20 game for god's sake..

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