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  1. #2241
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  2. #2242
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    i'll listen to a Russian defence analyst who has served in the Russian army as a colonel over you mate. He doesn't seem to think arming 1 million Ukranians will be a big issue with the lease to lend scheme and European weaponary.
    But you haven't bothered to answer these basic points that I have raised. You're listening to a defence analyst who's made a sweeping statement. There are many others who make sweeping statements, doesn't mean it's worth any value.

  3. #2243
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    that guy wrote a piece in early feb and everything he said then has become reality. The reality is Russia cannot win this war no matter how much you claim they can

  4. #2244
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    Dozens of badly wounded Ukrainian soldiers have arrived in Novoazovsk after being evacuated from Azovstal steel plant in the city of Mariupol.

    Some 53 troops were taken to hospital in the Russian-controlled town, about 30 miles to the east of Mariupol, according to Ukraine's deputy defence minister Hanna Malyar.

    Another 211 people are being taken to Olenivka, about 55 miles north, through humanitarian corridors, she said, adding that they would be exchanged with Russian military prisoners before returning home.

    For weeks, the soldiers were the last remaining pocket of resistance against the Russian advance in Mariupol, a strategically-important city on the north coast of the Sea of Azov.

    Ms Malyar said: "Thanks to the defenders of Mariupol, Ukraine gained critically important time, and they fulfilled all their tasks. But it is impossible to unblock Azovstal by military means.

    "We are working to save people who are still in Azovstal," she added, without saying how many people remained.

    Ukraine's president Volodymyr Zelenskyy said on Monday night: "Thanks to the actions of the Ukrainian military, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, intelligence, as well as the negotiating team, the International Committee of the Red Cross and the UN, we hope that we will be able to save the lives of our guys.

    "There are severely wounded ones among them - they're receiving care.

    "I want to emphasise that Ukraine needs Ukrainian heroes alive. This is our principle. I think that every adequate person will understand these words."

    Earlier on Monday, Russia announced an agreement for the injured Ukrainian soldiers to leave the steel plant for treatment in a town held by pro-Moscow separatists.

    On Monday night, five buses were seen leaving the steel plant with soldiers inside.

    The General Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces said on Facebook: "The supreme military command ordered the commanders of the units stationed at Azovstal to save the lives of the personnel.

    "Efforts to rescue defenders who remain on the territory of Azovstal continue."

    https://news.sky.com/story/dozens-of...tance-12614910

  5. #2245
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    that guy wrote a piece in early feb and everything he said then has become reality. The reality is Russia cannot win this war no matter how much you claim they can
    Land corridor Crimea to Russia - Check
    Donbas liberation - in progress
    Defeat of AFU forces in Donbas - in progress

    The two items in progress will almost certainly happen in the coming weeks. So it'll be check, check and check so as far as I'm concerned that will be military objectives achieved.

  6. #2246
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    Trawling through this thread I have picked up a couple of major legal errors by the Russia-apologists.

    Error 1: the Ukrainian forces in the Mariupol steelworks cannot be accused of unlawfully being in a civilian area, or of taking human shields or any other war crimes.

    International law permits legally deputed armed forces which are defending an attack by another nation on their sovereign territory to be in any part of their nationís sovereign territory.

    Error 2: any Russian forces which enter the sovereign territory of Ukraine, including Crimea and Donbas, are legally aggressors and belligerents.

    No nation can unilaterally annex another nationís land, and Crimea no more belongs to Russia than the West Bank settlements belong to Israel.

    Error 3: Russian armed forces cannot enter the territory of Ukraine - even for purposes or deNazification - without either a formal invitation from the government of Ukraine or a resolution from the United Nations Security Council. By definition, any Russian who enter Ukraine including Crimea and Donbas without such authorisation is a criminal under international law.

    Error 4: the government of Ukraine is actually entitled to invite any foreign armed forces to enter any part of Ukrainian sovereign territory - which includes both Crimea and Donbas. Not only is a No Fly Zone legal, but Ukraine would be within its legal rights to invite the US Navy to remove the Russians from Crimea.

    Lastly, Ukraine can legally demolish the bridge from Russia to Crimea at any time of its choosing.
    Last edited by Junaids; 17th May 2022 at 18:06.

  7. #2247
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    Germanyís RWE To Follow Kremlinís Rubles-for-Gas Scheme.

    "Germanyís largest producer of power, the giant RWE utility, has opened an account to pay for Russian gas in euros, Reuters reports, which will then be converted to rubles, following European Union clarifications that essentially allow companies to follow the Kremlinís gas-for-rubles scheme without violating sanctions.

    RWE joins a growing list of an estimated 20 European buyers of Russian natural gas that have so far opened accounts to enable the Kremlinís conversion-to-rubles scheme. "

    https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-N...as-Scheme.html

  8. #2248
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    Europe’s Economic Outlook Is Looking Bleaker By The Day


    "Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is generating fresh headwinds that will choke the European economy, reveal official forecasts published today. Surging energy prices caused by concerns over supply security following Moscow sending troops into Ukraine are set to strain households and businesses on the Continent.

    High input prices are likely to weigh on production, while elevated living costs will push spending lower than first expected.

    Inflation is running at seven percent in the UK, a 30-year high, while it is at a 40-year high across the pond at 8.3 percent.

    Europe is heavily reliant on Russia for gas, meaning higher prices and supply disruption caused by the war will make it challenging for businesses to maintain normal production levels.

    Germany’s – the Continent’s economic power house – industrial sector generates a large proportion of its national output. Energy shortages and higher gas prices will likely choke the country’s economy.

    The IMK Institute estimates a sudden embargo on Russian energy in an attempt to ratchet up sanctions could deal between €114bn and €286bn blow to the European economy, representing around three percent to eight percent of GDP."


    https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...y-The-Day.html

  9. #2249
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    Where are these 1 million soldiers with weapons going to come from? How are they going to reach the frontline in Donbas?
    They have no air support. Logistics will be hampered. Training centres will be targeted. The troops will be inexperienced and will be walking into a meat grinder. Its not worth it. The Ukrainians should retreat back across the river and fortify the West or attempt to do so. They should initiate talks to get their men out of the donbass while they still can. That's alot of experience to lose ..

  10. #2250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    ďMSM on both sides is biasedĒ?????

    The BBC is not aligned with either side. Itís is a neutral news organisation subject to strict objectiveness regulations, and protected from government oversight or influence.

    Meanwhile the British government is trying desperately to reduce public demand for things like a No-Fly Zone - the last thing it wants is for reporting of Russian atrocities to suck it into a war it doesnít want to be a protagonist in.

    Two propaganda machines are at work in this conflict.

    Russian propaganda is crude and convinces only the ignorant, the stupid or the biased.

    Ukrainian propaganda is slick and effective, and tends to use real Russian outrages as a means of mobilising support.

    The likes of the BBC, NY Times and Washington Post are just reporting the actual news.
    erm I think I know a little bit more than the average joe with regards to the BBC..one of its stated aims was to spread democracy to the rest of the world or to be exact british democratic values.

    the veneer they give is quite good. Inclusive, impartial , honest etc etc..then you venture forth and realise that many of the staff are psychopaths..

  11. #2251
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    The whole of luhanks oblast is nearly liberated

    The russians still need the rest of donetsk oblast and then whole of donbas will be liberated maybe the nazis at azov steel works can be used as a bargaining chip , the ukranianian move out of donbas in exchange for the steelwork racist subhumans .

    The only thing then for russia will be the south the rest of kherson oblast and parts of mykolaiv oblast and odessa that will essentially landlock ukraine and Russia will have a direct corridor to russian areas in Moldova transnistria .

    Although the war has come a high cost if russia can achieve the above it will come out the winner yes economically they have been hit hard and relegated to pariah status but due to their strong position of natural resources and food production.
    The blackmail of energy and rising prices it will hit the rest of Europe in a horrible situation. especially the winter that is coming the European will need to start being honest with their populace on food energy crisis and rising inflation , the bank of England is already ringing the alarm bells , so chaos and riots in Europe a possible winter of discontent could make russia come out the final winner although badly mauled that's if by winter they can achieve all those military aims although badly mauled.

    And if ukraine loses all that territory and loses the black sea access it will essentially be a state begging for Western aid for years alongwith a refugee problem that will sink rest of Europe further. That's millions of ukranians that will need spoon feeding by the west .

  12. #2252
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    News of the Azovstal surrender will try to be contained with the AFU ranks. But in the age of social media and in the time of mobile phones it'll be almost impossible to hold this information from the soldiers. This will strike a blow to the morale.

    In a recent post I wrote that based on my research that around 8k Ukranian forces were in the Lisichansk/Severodonestk cauldron. It seems as if I was wrong and the figure is double that. The outlook for these forces and Ukraine is bad whether they stand and fight or if they can retreat somehow. Therefore it just makes sense to surrender and start negotiating. Why sacrifice thousands of lives for a lost cause?

  13. #2253
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    News of the Azovstal surrender will try to be contained with the AFU ranks. But in the age of social media and in the time of mobile phones it'll be almost impossible to hold this information from the soldiers. This will strike a blow to the morale.

    In a recent post I wrote that based on my research that around 8k Ukranian forces were in the Lisichansk/Severodonestk cauldron. It seems as if I was wrong and the figure is double that. The outlook for these forces and Ukraine is bad whether they stand and fight or if they can retreat somehow. Therefore it just makes sense to surrender and start negotiating. Why sacrifice thousands of lives for a lost cause?
    Ukraine has been abandoned by their NATO allies. Its better for them and Russia that both come to the negotiation table and work their way out of this mess.

  14. #2254
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Ukraine has been abandoned by their NATO allies. Its better for them and Russia that both come to the negotiation table and work their way out of this mess.
    I suspect something big is about to happen because there's no way the senior army commanders on the Ukranian side will allow what's about to happen in this area. They're not just going to stand by and let so many units get destroyed. With the Azovstal surrender ongoing, more and more Russian units will be allowed to be re-deployed and futher strengthening the army in the areas around Lisichansk.

  15. #2255
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    Russian forces shoot 11 year old girl in the face.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tz7stTA_Bo

  16. #2256
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    Russian soldiers shoot civilians in the back.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGg7ZJlihi8&t=224s

  17. #2257
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    It's only fair gilly you show the ukranian war crimes of Russian soldiers executed mutilated , arranged in z shapes and the nazi militias who were killing people in the donbas region they even killed a ukranian mma fighter because he trained with the kadyrov mma gym.

  18. #2258
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    I suspect something big is about to happen because there's no way the senior army commanders on the Ukranian side will allow what's about to happen in this area. They're not just going to stand by and let so many units get destroyed. With the Azovstal surrender ongoing, more and more Russian units will be allowed to be re-deployed and futher strengthening the army in the areas around Lisichansk.
    Ukraine has been used as a sacrifical lamb and must be scratching their heads as to why they are in this mess with no support while NATO is entering Finland.

    I am measuring this war as Russia v NATO and not Russia v Ukraine.

  19. #2259
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    Quote Originally Posted by bones View Post
    News of the Azovstal surrender will try to be contained with the AFU ranks. But in the age of social media and in the time of mobile phones it'll be almost impossible to hold this information from the soldiers. This will strike a blow to the morale.

    In a recent post I wrote that based on my research that around 8k Ukranian forces were in the Lisichansk/Severodonestk cauldron. It seems as if I was wrong and the figure is double that. The outlook for these forces and Ukraine is bad whether they stand and fight or if they can retreat somehow. Therefore it just makes sense to surrender and start negotiating. Why sacrifice thousands of lives for a lost cause?
    Anyone who tried to negotiate in good faith on the Ukrainian team were labelled as a traitor and killed, nobody on the negotiation team will risk getting getting shot and killed by moving away from the NATO agenda.

    Ukraine is an American puppet state, so they will let thousands of soldiers die rather than negotiate and the western media will continue with its propaganda that Ukraine is winning.

  20. #2260
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    Hang on... didn't America call Russia last week and ask for a ceasefire? Its that not negotiating?

  21. #2261
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    Nice to see pro NATO/MSM puppets concede Ukraine is a smokescreen.

    Better late than never.


  22. #2262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    ďMSM on both sides is biasedĒ?????

    The BBC is not aligned with either side. Itís is a neutral news organisation subject to strict objectiveness regulations, and protected from government oversight or influence.

    Meanwhile the British government is trying desperately to reduce public demand for things like a No-Fly Zone - the last thing it wants is for reporting of Russian atrocities to suck it into a war it doesnít want to be a protagonist in.

    Two propaganda machines are at work in this conflict.

    Russian propaganda is crude and convinces only the ignorant, the stupid or the biased.

    Ukrainian propaganda is slick and effective, and tends to use real Russian outrages as a means of mobilising support.

    The likes of the BBC, NY Times and Washington Post are just reporting the actual news
    .


    Surely you're just trolling now and cannot possibly believe this?

    Azovstal steelworks evacuated as Ukraine ends combat mission in Mariupol
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...orks-btdc6rckv

    The Neo Nazis surrender due to lack of food, arms and also because they know their war is lost.

    A huge symbolic victory for Russia. IT was these neo-nazis who have been killing innocent civilians in teh east since 2014. IT was these Nazis who were dipping their guns in pigs blood believing they are too powerful to be beaten.


    Russians are now moving in their elite tanks inc BMPT Terminators.

    The Donbass region will be soon liberated by Russia. Ukraine will not be regaining this territory, great victory for Putin.


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  23. #2263
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    Hang on... didn't America call Russia last week and ask for a ceasefire? Its that not negotiating?
    Because your heros were getting a real hiding. Nato wanted them to rest and regroup.

    Negotiations should be have been done years ago, assuring Russia of no security threat and not giving birth to the Neo Nazis , supporting them to kill innocents.

    Now Russia has a far strong hand, Ukraine and NAto will lose much more now when they eventually see straight realising they have lost in every way possible.


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  24. #2264
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    Ha ha let's see.....

  25. #2265
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    Ha ha let's see.....
    Its become a norm by Westerners to chearlead Ukranians to fight for Nato. Its not funny to see a nation being used and abused others.

    Do you understand the difference between ceasefire and negotiations? Ukrainians want an end to this war, as do Russians but Nato esp Biden and Boris want this to continue. The Zionist puppet who is the PM has been paid well to not stop the conflict.


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  26. #2266
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    Ukraine aren't fighting for NATO, they are fighting for their existence.

  27. #2267
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    Ukraine aren't fighting for NATO, they are fighting for their existence.
    This is not the movie Indpedence day, its real life.

    Stop cheerleading other people to kill or to be killed.

    Ukraine is ONLY in this position because Nato used the country for its own imperial purposes. Even Yanks are admitting this now but good old Mr Leigh thinks Winston Churchill will rise from the dead with his cigar in his pocket to save the world from Alien Russians, thanking Will Smith for his help on the way.


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  28. #2268
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post

    Negotiations should be have been done years ago, assuring Russia of no security threat .
    Again, you believe that Russia is entitled to dictate to Ukraine what itís alliances snd defences can be, but that Ukraine is entitled to no such guarantees against Russia.

    Which is like saying that India is entitled to dictate that:

    1. Pakistan not be an Islamic Republic.
    2. Pakistan forfeit its Air Force and Army and only be permitted a Police Force.
    3. India be entitled to invade Pakistan and destroy towns and cities, steal property and rape females whenever they feel like it.
    4. Lahore, Karachi, Gujranwala and Sialkot to return to Indian sovereignty with immediate effect.

    But Pakistan has no such rights against India.

    No offence, but I think you are still fighting anti-Colonial wars against the British Empire in your head, and have twisted the Russia/Ukraine conflict to somehow be an extension of it. But it isnít - itís a pointless war caused by the ignorance and vanity of an ageing dictator.
    Last edited by Junaids; Today at 01:17.

  29. #2269
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    This is not the movie Indpedence day, its real life.

    Stop cheerleading other people to kill or to be killed.

    Ukraine is ONLY in this position because Nato used the country for its own imperial purposes. Even Yanks are admitting this now but good old Mr Leigh thinks Winston Churchill will rise from the dead with his cigar in his pocket to save the world from Alien Russians, thanking Will Smith for his help on the way.
    No, Ukraine are in this position because Russia decided to invade them twice in less than 10 years.

    Ukraine is a sovereign country with internationally recognized borders. Russia has ripped that up in the name of empire building
    Last edited by Firebat; Today at 06:04.

  30. #2270
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Because your heros were getting a real hiding. Nato wanted them to rest and regroup.

    Negotiations should be have been done years ago, assuring Russia of no security threat and not giving birth to the Neo Nazis , supporting them to kill innocents.

    Now Russia has a far strong hand, Ukraine and NAto will lose much more now when they eventually see straight realising they have lost in every way possible.
    what secruity threats to Russia?? Didnt putin say yesterday he has no issue with Finland and Sweden joining NATO? so why is Ukraine any different?

    He's openly admitted there that NATO isn't a threat to Russia.

    This is all. about empire building, and stealing Sevastapol and the Donbas area where all Russias military microchips are made.

  31. #2271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Again, you believe that Russia is entitled to dictate to Ukraine what itís alliances snd defences can be, but that Ukraine is entitled to no such guarantees against Russia.

    Which is like saying that India is entitled to dictate that:

    1. Pakistan not be an Islamic Republic.
    2. Pakistan forfeit its Air Force and Army and only be permitted a Police Force.
    3. India be entitled to invade Pakistan and destroy towns and cities, steal property and rape females whenever they feel like it.
    4. Lahore, Karachi, Gujranwala and Sialkot to return to Indian sovereignty with immediate effect.

    But Pakistan has no such rights against India.

    No offence, but I think you are still fighting anti-Colonial wars against the British Empire in your head, and have twisted the Russia/Ukraine conflict to somehow be an extension of it. But it isnít - itís a pointless war caused by the ignorance and vanity of an ageing dictator.
    This is as foolish as you suggesting the Crimeans would have voted to remain with Ukraine.

    No offence but you have Pakistani heritige but you claim no you are English only , living in Aus.

    I have explained in terms a 5 year old would understand.

    IF Russia and China were to stage a coup in Mexico install their puppet leader, bring to life Nazis or ISIS and were training them to eventually fight the Yanks, you'd be up in arms with Biden not remembering your views on Russia.

    Please remember you are not Churchills relative so stop acting like you are .


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  32. #2272
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    No, Ukraine are in this position because Russia decided to invade them twice in less than 10 years.

    Ukraine is a sovereign country with internationally recognized borders. Russia has ripped that up in the name of empire building
    Mr Leigh your heros Nato have invaded numerous nations , destoyed them, killed the leaders in order to save lives, when those nations are not even on their borders such as Libya.

    Now you cant cry Mr Leigh because Russia wants to send your Nazi heros to hell, which they have done very well.

    Russia has a right to its security in a world where Nato has claimed this right many times and almost all times based on lies.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    what secruity threats to Russia?? Didnt putin say yesterday he has no issue with Finland and Sweden joining NATO? so why is Ukraine any different?

    He's openly admitted there that NATO isn't a threat to Russia.

    This is all. about empire building, and stealing Sevastapol and the Donbas area where all Russias military microchips are made.
    Last edited by Firebat; Today at 06:05.


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  33. #2273
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    The buffalo shooter who murdered people in cold blood was inspired by a Nazi manifesto, which had the same Sonnenrad the Azov have tattooed on their body.

    I hope the security services are keeping an good eye on white males who support Azov in Ukraine. As the Nazis and Ukraine lose more and more such people with sadly become more prevalent in some sort of revenge against people of colour.


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  34. #2274
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpleigh View Post
    No, Ukraine are in this position because Russia decided to invade them twice in less than 10 years.

    Ukraine is a sovereign country with internationally recognized borders. Russia has ripped that up in the name of empire building
    I’m still waiting for you to explain the claims about Ukraine mobilising 1 million soldiers. How will they assemble these forces at the frontline? Where will they get heavy weapons from? You said this yesterday so please elaborate.
    Last edited by Firebat; Today at 06:06.

  35. #2275
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    A Russian soldier has pleaded guilty to war crimes after shooting a civilian who was riding along on a bike.

    Ukraine has 11,000 more war crimes committed by Russian soldiers to activate.

    KYIV, Ukraine ó A 21-year-old Russian soldier facing the first war crimes trial since Moscow invaded Ukraine pleaded guilty Wednesday to killing an unarmed civilian.

    Sgt. Vadim Shishimarin could get life in prison for shooting a a 62-year-old Ukrainian man in the head through an open car window in the northeastern Sumy region on Feb. 28, four days into the invasion.
    https://www.npr.org/2022/05/18/10997...r-crimes-trial

  36. #2276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    A Russian soldier has pleaded guilty to war crimes after shooting a civilian who was riding along on a bike.

    Ukraine has 11,000 more war crimes committed by Russian soldiers to activate.
    You were asked earlier to post some reports on Ukranian Nazi war crimes, having trouble finding those?


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  37. #2277
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    Russian soldiers went to family farm and took the two sons of the farmer into the woods blindfolded and beat them up and shot them in the head before burying them. Fortunately one survived.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TzCz5Zdgy4&t=211s

  38. #2278
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    You were asked earlier to post some reports on Ukranian Nazi war crimes, having trouble finding those?
    I canít believe that I have to tell you this, but here goes.

    The Ukrainian war crimes are all perpetrated against enemy combatants who have no lawful right to enter Ukrainian territory (including Crimea and Donbas which have been unlawfully stolen by Russia).

    The majority of Russian war crimes are against civilians. Stealing property. Shelling civilian targets. Raping females. Murdering civilians.
    Last edited by Junaids; Today at 06:18.

  39. #2279
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    Ukrainian woman kidnapped and raped by Russian soldiers. This is the fall out from Russia forcing untrained soldiers into war.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGeGJF0e1gs

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