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  1. #1
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    Real Kashmiri language is pretty different

    Real Kashmiri language (Kosher) is pretty different from northern subcontinental languages like Punjabi, Urdu, Hindi, Bengali etc....

    Kashmir is indeed a separate culture from the plains of south asia. They are Dardic

    can any punjabi, urdu, hindi speaker understand a word in this song?


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    That sounds weird and nothing like Urdu or Punjabi.


    I can't think of anything else but this machine. I sell here, Sir, what all the world desires to have - POWER

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    Should be in the languages forum.

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    this is not your daily conversational kashmiri. it is more poetic/ literary

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnanmir View Post
    this is not your daily conversational kashmiri. it is more poetic/ literary
    what does kashmiri sound like when in regular conversations?


    "Peace is only made with the powerful"

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    Yeah I have heard interviews of people from jammu and kashmir they totaly speak different language. People of azad kashmir speak the same language as the people from muree. But the language spoken in jammu and kashmir is only spoken in jammu and kashmir.

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    That's because people always confuse Kashmiri nationality with Kashmiri ethnicity. Pakistanis need to learn to differentiate nationality, ethnicity and religion because you mix it all up.

    All Kashmiris are Kashmiri, but not all Kashmiri are Kashmiris.

    Kashmiris are native tribes and clans of Kashmir and they mainly belong to the Kashmir Valley in IOK (ie. Bhat, Dhar, Wani etc.)

    Kashmiri are people who reside within the borders of Jammu & Kashmir. This includes native Kashmiri tribes/clans + non Kashmiri groups like Punjabis (south AJK), Hindkowans (north AJK), Ladakhis and Jammuites (who are Dogras I think).

    And each of these people speak different languages.

    Kashmiri tribes/clans speak Koshur, which resemble Dardic languages spoken in GB.
    Punjabis and Hindkowans of AJK speak either Punjabi, Potohari/Pahari or Hindko.
    Ladakhi people speak a language very similar to Balti language which is spoken in Skardu and both are derivatives of Tibetan language.

    And then you have Jammu people who I don't even regard as actual Kashmiris (nobody really does to be honest). They're basically originally Hindi speakers who pretend they own Kashmir and desperately pretend to be Central Asian or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowqar View Post
    That's because people always confuse Kashmiri nationality with Kashmiri ethnicity. Pakistanis need to learn to differentiate nationality, ethnicity and religion because you mix it all up.

    All Kashmiris are Kashmiri, but not all Kashmiri are Kashmiris.

    Kashmiris are native tribes and clans of Kashmir and they mainly belong to the Kashmir Valley in IOK (ie. Bhat, Dhar, Wani etc.)

    Kashmiri are people who reside within the borders of Jammu & Kashmir. This includes native Kashmiri tribes/clans + non Kashmiri groups like Punjabis (south AJK), Hindkowans (north AJK), Ladakhis and Jammuites (who are Dogras I think).

    And each of these people speak different languages.

    Kashmiri tribes/clans speak Koshur, which resemble Dardic languages spoken in GB.
    Punjabis and Hindkowans of AJK speak either Punjabi, Potohari/Pahari or Hindko.
    Ladakhi people speak a language very similar to Balti language which is spoken in Skardu and both are derivatives of Tibetan language.

    And then you have Jammu people who I don't even regard as actual Kashmiris (nobody really does to be honest). They're basically originally Hindi speakers who pretend they own Kashmir and desperately pretend to be Central Asian or something.
    I'm aware of that, I belong to one of the clans you named but all of the Kashmiri origin people settled in Punjab only speak Punjabi and Urdu now.


    "Peace is only made with the powerful"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    I'm aware of that, I belong to one of the clans you named but all of the Kashmiri origin people settled in Punjab only speak Punjabi and Urdu now.
    True...

    But the Kashmiris that came over after 1947 (who mainly live in Pindi or Jhelum or Mirpur) still retain Kashmiri heritage, culture and language.

    The Kashmiris that migrated to Punjab before that (during drought of 1800 especially) and settled in places like Wazirabad, Sialkot, Lahore etc adopted Punjabi culture and language over the successive generations.

    BTW what clan are you?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowqar View Post
    True...

    But the Kashmiris that came over after 1947 (who mainly live in Pindi or Jhelum or Mirpur) still retain Kashmiri heritage, culture and language.

    The Kashmiris that migrated to Punjab before that (during drought of 1800 especially) and settled in places like Wazirabad, Sialkot, Lahore etc adopted Punjabi culture and language over the successive generations.

    BTW what clan are you?
    The biggest one


    "Peace is only made with the powerful"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    what does kashmiri sound like when in regular conversations?
    I am a native kashmiri speaker. I havent heard a single language yet which is similar to koshur. balti sounds similar but thats that. there is no mutual intelligibility with any other language

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowqar View Post
    That's because people always confuse Kashmiri nationality with Kashmiri ethnicity. Pakistanis need to learn to differentiate nationality, ethnicity and religion because you mix it all up.

    All Kashmiris are Kashmiri, but not all Kashmiri are Kashmiris.

    Kashmiris are native tribes and clans of Kashmir and they mainly belong to the Kashmir Valley in IOK (ie. Bhat, Dhar, Wani etc.)

    Kashmiri are people who reside within the borders of Jammu & Kashmir. This includes native Kashmiri tribes/clans + non Kashmiri groups like Punjabis (south AJK), Hindkowans (north AJK), Ladakhis and Jammuites (who are Dogras I think).

    And each of these people speak different lang

    And then you have Jammu people who I don't even regard as actual Kashmiris (nobody really does to be honest). They're basically originally Hindi speakers who pretend they own Kashmir and desperately pretend to be Central Asian or something.
    the people from jammu are not original hindi speakers their origin is punjabi. also they dont pretend to be central asian. their language dogri is more than 60% punjabi. I can tell you that on authority as I currently live in jammu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wowqar View Post
    True...

    But the Kashmiris that came over after 1947 (who mainly live in Pindi or Jhelum or Mirpur) still retain Kashmiri heritage, culture and language.

    The Kashmiris that migrated to Punjab before that (during drought of 1800 especially) and settled in places like Wazirabad, Sialkot, Lahore etc adopted Punjabi culture and language over the successive generations.

    BTW what clan are you?
    I read somewhere that kashmiri language will be wiped off from pak occupied kashmir( less than 5% speak it there anyway) by 2025. I remember in
    childhood there used to be a kashmiri language news bulletin from ptv which we used catch using those old tv antennas. I wonder do they still do that

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnanmir View Post
    I read somewhere that kashmiri language will be wiped off from pak occupied kashmir( less than 5% speak it there anyway) by 2025. I remember in
    childhood there used to be a kashmiri language news bulletin from ptv which we used catch using those old tv antennas. I wonder do they still do that
    Well Kashmiri language isn't native to Azad Kashmir, it's only spoken by refugees from Iok and some villages on the border, so it being wiped out is an exaggeration. I do find it interesting that almost none of Kashmiris that settled in Punjab ever retained the language and adopted Urdu and Punjabi, it's like they assimilated so seamlessly. I know for a fact my family didn't retained the language.


    "Peace is only made with the powerful"

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnanmir View Post
    I read somewhere that kashmiri language will be wiped off from pak occupied kashmir( less than 5% speak it there anyway) by 2025. I remember in
    childhood there used to be a kashmiri language news bulletin from ptv which we used catch using those old tv antennas. I wonder do they still do that
    Balti is a tibetan language though, Kashmiri belongs to the Dardic family but interestingly the people from gilgit I've spoke to say that they don't understand kashmiri at all. It's a pretty unique language.


    "Peace is only made with the powerful"

  16. #16
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    geographically kashmir is located inside sub continent, but culturally it has resemblance to turkic states of central asia i think just like KPK etc

  17. #17
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    Kashmiri language is considered to be the oldest language in ASIA.... it is said to 5000 years old....and history also suggests so...
    I have never heard any language that is more sweeter than kashmiri language... perhaps it is the sweetest language...


    [QUOTE=Mamoon;9742871]Don't see us ascending from 7th/6th in the near future. 5-0 in England and South Africa awaits us, we will be lucky to even draw one match. [/QUOTE]

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macho Mann View Post
    geographically kashmir is located inside sub continent, but culturally it has resemblance to turkic states of central asia i think just like KPK etc
    Yeah a bit like KPK and afg...


    [QUOTE=Mamoon;9742871]Don't see us ascending from 7th/6th in the near future. 5-0 in England and South Africa awaits us, we will be lucky to even draw one match. [/QUOTE]

  19. #19
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    Walla Uuuuuuuur

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by czar View Post
    Walla Uuuuuuuur
    kout chum yun... gobur osaa warey beye.


    [QUOTE=Mamoon;9742871]Don't see us ascending from 7th/6th in the near future. 5-0 in England and South Africa awaits us, we will be lucky to even draw one match. [/QUOTE]

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistanian View Post
    Balti is a tibetan language though, Kashmiri belongs to the Dardic family but interestingly the people from gilgit I've spoke to say that they don't understand kashmiri at all. It's a pretty unique language.
    as I said it just sounds similar.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by UN talkz View Post
    Kashmiri language is considered to be the oldest language in ASIA.... it is said to 5000 years old....and history also suggests so...
    I have never heard any language that is more sweeter than kashmiri language... perhaps it is the sweetest language...
    What? Kashmiri, like most Indian languages is a Indo-European language (exceptions are languages of the North-East and Tamil). Its literature is about 750 years old.

    "Though Kashmiri has thousands of loan words (mainly from Persian and Arabic) due to the arrival of Islam in the Valley, however, it remains basically an Indo-Aryan language close to Rigvedic Sanskrit. There is a minor difference between the Kashmiri spoken by a Hindu and a Muslim. For 'fire', a traditional Hindu will use the word agun while a Muslim more often will use the Arabic word nar."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_language

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    What? Kashmiri, like most Indian languages is a Indo-European language (exceptions are languages of the North-East and Tamil). Its literature is about 750 years old.

    "Though Kashmiri has thousands of loan words (mainly from Persian and Arabic) due to the arrival of Islam in the Valley, however, it remains basically an Indo-Aryan language close to Rigvedic Sanskrit. There is a minor difference between the Kashmiri spoken by a Hindu and a Muslim. For 'fire', a traditional Hindu will use the word agun while a Muslim more often will use the Arabic word nar."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmiri_language
    Those guys are Kashmiri Pandits, not your usual run of the mill Hindu people. And the differences are minor like you mentioned.

    Kashmiri philosophical poetry is simply the best in the entire world. Nothing else comes close in my opinion. Not being biased here. Its a shame that majority of the world wont ever know what treasures it holds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    Those guys are Kashmiri Pandits, not your usual run of the mill Hindu people. And the differences are minor like you mentioned.

    <b>Kashmiri philosophical poetry is simply the best in the entire world.</b> Nothing else comes close in my opinion. Not being biased here. Its a shame that majority of the world wont ever know what treasures it holds.
    Now you have me intrigued. Any good English translations that you recommend?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Now you have me intrigued. Any good English translations that you recommend?
    Dont know of any translations but you should look for works of Lal Ded, Nund Rishi (or Sheikh Nur-udin) .

    Nund Rishi writes :

    Desire is like the knotted wood of the forest
    It cannot be made into planks, beams or into cradles;
    He who cut and telled it,
    Will burn it into ashes.

    Also :

    Do not go to Sheikh and Priest and Mullah;
    Do not feed the cattle or Arkh or leaves;
    Do not shut thyself up in mosques or forests;
    Enter thine own body with breath controlled in communion with God. (This sounds like yoga)

    "Penitence shalt make thee to cross the abysmal ocean of this world. Repentance art
    the ferry across the brook. How art thee be safe O me, with no renunciation there.
    Where severe colds and scorching winds do prevail!"

    Lal ded wrote :

    "What the books taught me, Iíve practised.
    What they didnít teach me, Iíve taught myself.
    Iíve gone into the forest and wrestled with the lion.
    I didnít get this far by teaching one thing and doing another."

    You can also read Shah e Hamdan Mir Syed Ali Hamdani's works. There are many more but i cant recall right now.

    Its really good especially when you read it in context. I mean it blows you away how progressive it mostly is and we are talking about a time which nothing like today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Napa View Post
    Now you have me intrigued. Any good English translations that you recommend?
    However i must say translation doesnt do justice to the writings in kashmiri language. Some of the poetry is depressively gut wrenching. It beautiful.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madplayer View Post
    However i must say translation doesnt do justice to the writings in kashmiri language. Some of the poetry is depressively gut wrenching. It beautiful.
    Thank you. Seems like very powerful poetry. Reminds me of the "Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam" (Fitzgerald) which is the best poetry I have read.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by UN talkz View Post
    Kashmiri language is considered to be the oldest language in ASIA.... it is said to 5000 years old....and history also suggests so...
    I have never heard any language that is more sweeter than kashmiri language... perhaps it is the sweetest language...
    Which History bhai?
    Kashmiri doesnt even have a classical language status in India.
    For a language to be considered classical in India, it should meet the following three criteria
    1. High antiquity of its early texts/ recorded history over a period of 1500-2000 years.
    2. A body of ancient literature/ texts, which is considered a valuable heritage by generations of speakers.
    3. The literary tradition be original and not borrowed from another speech community.
    4. The classical language and literature being distinct from modern, there may also be a discontinuity between the classical language and its later forms or its offshoots.

    Kashmiri is hardly a thousand years old.
    Even the most famous literary work from the valley, Rajtaringini by Kalhana was written in Sanskrit and not in any of your local languages.

    And those who claim Kashmir has always been isolated and distinct from the rest of the subcontinent are obviously jokers who probably never even so much as picked a book about ancient Indian history.
    Kashmir was an important centre of Saivites or the Shiva worshippers and Mahayana Buddhism. It has been mentioned extensively in the Puranas and was also the place where fourth Buddhist council under Kanishka's reign was held.

    The valley and the northern plains have been connected quite well ever since the times of Mahajanpadas. To claim otherwise is simply lying.


    Tazimi Sirdar

  29. #29
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    Kashmiri language has similarities with Shina language of Ladakh and GB. It also has similarities to Kalasha language.

    Kalasha and Nouristani people are also dardic people originally Hindus who were converted to Islam by force in 1895. Thereby changing the name of this land to Nouristan from Kafiristan. Nouristani and Kalasha have original features of dardic while Kashmiri did mix with others but still retain their genes.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh View Post
    Kashmiri language has similarities with Shina language of Ladakh and GB. It also has similarities to Kalasha language.

    Kalasha and Nouristani people are also dardic people originally Hindus who were converted to Islam by force in 1895. Thereby changing the name of this land to Nouristan from Kafiristan. Nouristani and Kalasha have original features of dardic while Kashmiri did mix with others but still retain their genes.
    They were not hindus per say as ganga hindus, they had a form of vedic religion

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TM Riddle View Post
    Which History bhai?
    Kashmiri doesnt even have a classical language status in India.
    For a language to be considered classical in India, it should meet the following three criteria
    1. High antiquity of its early texts/ recorded history over a period of 1500-2000 years.
    2. A body of ancient literature/ texts, which is considered a valuable heritage by generations of speakers.
    3. The literary tradition be original and not borrowed from another speech community.
    4. The classical language and literature being distinct from modern, there may also be a discontinuity between the classical language and its later forms or its offshoots.

    Kashmiri is hardly a thousand years old.
    Even the most famous literary work from the valley, Rajtaringini by Kalhana was written in Sanskrit and not in any of your local languages.

    And those who claim Kashmir has always been isolated and distinct from the rest of the subcontinent are obviously jokers who probably never even so much as picked a book about ancient Indian history.
    Kashmir was an important centre of Saivites or the Shiva worshippers and Mahayana Buddhism. It has been mentioned extensively in the Puranas and was also the place where fourth Buddhist council under Kanishka's reign was held.

    The valley and the northern plains have been connected quite well ever since the times of Mahajanpadas. To claim otherwise is simply lying.
    The may have shared culture, however we all know genetically kashmiries are much less dravidian then northern Indians/Eastern Pakistanis. This alone gives them a reason to seperate


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