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  1. #1
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    Narendra Modi claims genetic science existed in ancient times


    Hindu nationalists have long propagated their belief that many discoveries of modern science and technology were known to the people of ancient India. But now for the first time an Indian prime minister has endorsed these claims, maintaining that cosmetic surgery and reproductive genetics were practiced thousands of years ago.

    As proof, Narendra Modi gave the examples of the warrior Karna from the Sanskrit epic Mahabharata and of the elephant-headed Hindu god Ganesha.

    “We can feel proud of what our country achieved in medical science at one point of time,” the prime minister told a gathering of doctors and other professionals at a hospital in Mumbai on Saturday. “We all read about Karna in the Mahabharata. If we think a little more, we realise that the Mahabharata says Karna was not born from his mother’s womb. This means that genetic science was present at that time. That is why Karna could be born outside his mother’s womb.”
    Narendra Modi delivers his address in New Delhi Narendra Modi delivers his address in New Delhi. Photograph: Prakash Singh/AFP/Getty Images

    Modi went on: “We worship Lord Ganesha. There must have been some plastic surgeon at that time who got an elephant’s head on the body of a human being and began the practice of plastic surgery.”

    While much of Modi’s speech was devoted to how to improve healthcare facilities in modern India, he also dwelt on ancient India’s “capabilities” in several fields.

    “There must be many areas in which our ancestors made big contributions,” he said. “Some of these are well recognised. If we talk about space science, our ancestors had, at some point, displayed great strengths in space science. What people like Aryabhata had said centuries ago is being recognised by science today. What I mean to say is that we are a country which had these capabilities. We need to regain these.”

    This is not the first time that Modi has publicly articulated such ideas. But he did so earlier as chief minister of Gujarat state, and not as prime minister. He also wrote the foreword to a book for school students in Gujarat which maintains, among other things, that the Hindu God Rama flew the first aeroplane and that stem cell technology was known in ancient India.

    Modi’s claims at the Mumbai hospital initially went unreported in the Indian media, except on the website rediff.com.

    But on Monday night Headlines Today TV talk show host Karan Thapar focused on it in his primetime programme, with opposition politicians criticising Modi. The speech has also been posted on the prime minister’s official website. No Indian scientist has come forward as yet to challenge him.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...-ancient-times

    Fair play to the fella. Looks like he is proud and passionate enough regarding his beliefs to announce them on the world stage without fear of being mocked.

  2. #2
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    Is that a satire article?


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  3. #3
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    Seems like he is one of those people who say that the Taj Mahal and Kaaba were Hindu temples before they were converted

  4. #4
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    how educated is he though? clearly no where near Manmohan's level but hopefully he is atleast got his post grad

  5. #5
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    Modi must have watched the episode of Ancient Aliens where they talk about India and its history.

    The concept of Brahmastra (Nuclear weapon), Vimaana (Airplane) are discussed in that show. Must be available in Youtube.

  6. #6
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    India TV too much modi ji??

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Is that a satire article?
    Its in the Guardian which is a pretty respectable paper.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    Its in the Guardian which is a pretty respectable paper.
    Then I am shocked.

    This is seriously idiotic.

    Someone tell Modi that in a real discussion, speech or whatever, you do NOT assume religious stuff to be true and make conclusions based on that.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  9. #9
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    Modi went on: “We worship Lord Ganesha. There must have been some plastic surgeon at that time who got an elephant’s head on the body of a human being and began the practice of plastic surgery.”
    This is insane level of stupidity if he really meant that.

    I am shocked this isn't a satire article.

    He also wrote the foreword to a book for school students in Gujarat which maintains, among other things, that the Hindu God Rama flew the first aeroplane and that stem cell technology was known in ancient India.
    Ahh..the Pushpaka Vimana.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 29th October 2014 at 00:15.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  10. #10
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    Modi tends to go overboard with the achievements of Ancient people of Subcontinent. I have seen him do this on some other occasions too. Many times he ends his speeches with Hail Mother India slogans.

  11. #11
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    He is proud of his heritage and there is nothing wrong in it..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    He is proud of his heritage and there is nothing wrong in it..
    there is pride and there is stupidity/naiveity

    this is similar to ppl who say Pakistan is the best country in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KarachiKing View Post
    there is pride and there is stupidity/naiveity

    this is similar to ppl who say Pakistan is the best country in the world.
    Good for them. I don't see anything wrong with Pakistanis claiming Pakistan as the best country in the world.

  14. #14
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    Nothing wrong with being proud about your country or its heritage.

    The criticism is about the way he derives conclusions based on what are...merely religious beliefs.

    If he talks about the concept of zero, plastic surgery in ancient India (without bringing the cringeworthy Ganesh inference), people won't criticize him.

    I read somewhere that in ancient India there was a certain form of plastic surgery was practiced.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mithun_minhas View Post
    Modi tends to go overboard with the achievements of Ancient people of Subcontinent. I have seen him do this on some other occasions too. Many times he ends his speeches with Hail Mother India slogans.
    Smriti Irani does it too.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    Good for them. I don't see anything wrong with Pakistanis claiming Pakistan as the best country in the world.
    its called denial. same for Indians who claim that

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    I see this as -

    1) A reconfirmation of Modi's staunch religious stance
    2) An ode to the past. A means of allowing the people of the subcontinent to revisit their ancient identities, and possibly form one on the basis of these supposed ancient/religious successes.

    The first one was a no-brainer. The second one holds more interest for me. In a way, it resembles the time when Iran in the early 20th century engaged in extensive identity-ordained rhetoric including a return to their Zoroastrian historical identities to undermine Islamic influence. Egypt did the same a few decades before them, by emphasizing their ancient Egypt-ness more than their Islamic past to undermine religion generally.


    He who fears he will suffer, already suffers because he fears.
    — Michel De Montaigne

  18. #18
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    Who was the doctor who carried out plastic surgery on Ganesha?Lord Shiva?


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    He is proud of his heritage and there is nothing wrong in it..
    This.
    Many Christians believe in Jesus turning water into wine and muslims in that moon breaking stuff.It all comes down to faith .


    Tazimi Sirdar

  20. #20
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    Plastic Surgeon Lord Dhanvanthiri, he don't need the help of assistants

  21. #21
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    Ridiculous.

    I thought it was satire at first too.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TM Riddle View Post
    This.
    Many Christians believe in Jesus turning water into wine and muslims in that moon breaking stuff.It all comes down to faith .
    I'm not overly familiar with Hindu tales...the Christian and Muslim stories you have mentioned relate to examples of activities that took place to convince disbelievers via miracles that these people were messengers.

    My understanding of the Ganesh story is that he obstructed Shiva from entering his home ( due to loyalty to his mother) and in a rage Shiva cut off his head. After his anger cooled down and showing remorse he found the head of the first thing he seen and attached it Ganesh body and declared Ganesh to be the strongest of all Gods.

    Sorry If I have not typed the story accurately...I'm curious as to the lessons behind it? What do Hindus get from this tale when it is transmitted - Is it a tale of reward for loyalty/bravery/sacrifice?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    Who was the doctor who carried out plastic surgery on Ganesha?Lord Shiva?
    haha...you are right....

    Here's what I found on Google (looks similar to what my Gandma told me - since I am not a Shaivite, I am not too sure about the actual story):

    Once, while Goddess Parvati wanted to take a bath, there were no attendants around to guard her and stop anyone from accidentally entering the house. Hence she created an image of a boy out of paste which she prepared to cleanse her body, and infused life into it, and thus Ganesha was born. Parvati ordered Ganesha not to allow anyone to enter the house, and Ganesha obediently followed his mother's orders. After a while Shiva returned from outside, and as he tried to enter the house, Ganesha stopped him. Shiva was furious at this strange little boy who dared to challenge him. He told Ganesha that he was Parvati's husband, and demanded that Ganesha let him go in. But Ganesha refused to hear him. Shiva lost his patience and had a fierce battle with Ganesha. At last he severed Ganesha's head with his Trishula. When Parvati came out and saw her son's lifeless body, she was very angry and sad. She demanded that Shiva restore Ganesha's life at once.

    Unfortunately, Shiva's Trishula was so powerful that it had hurled Ganesha's head very far off. All attempts to find the head were in vain. As a last resort, Shiva approached Brahma who suggested that he replace Ganesha's head with the first living being that came his way which lay with its head facing north. Shiva then sent his disciples to find and take the head of whatever creature they happened to find asleep with its head facing north. They found a dying elephant which slept in this manner, and after its death took its head, attaching the elephant's head to Ganesha's body and bringing him back to life. From then on, he was called Ganapati, or head of the celestial armies, and was to be worshipped by everyone before beginning any activity.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  24. #24
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    Looks like he believes in the Ancient Astronaut theory.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarachiKing View Post
    there is pride and there is stupidity/naiveity

    this is similar to ppl who say Pakistan is the best country in the world.
    Wrong analogy. This is similar to those who treat Quran as a science book and not just a guidance book. I don't agree with either btw.

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    See You Space Cowboy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    haha...you are right....

    Here's what I found on Google (looks similar to what my Gandma told me - since I am not a Shaivite, I am not too sure about the actual story):
    That's quite similar to the story I saw in some Lord Shiva TV serial.

    So Brahma suggested the surgery and Lord Shiva carried it out. Not sure who is better plastic surgeon


    The only disability in life is a bad attitude. -Scott Hamilton

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saurav View Post
    That's quite similar to the story I saw in some Lord Shiva TV serial.

    So Brahma suggested the surgery and Lord Shiva carried it out. Not sure who is better plastic surgeon
    Let's award them both.

    The first plastic legend combo to exist in the world.

    Seriously though, doesn't Modi know that according to our religion, demi Gods (or Gods if you consider them) had special powers? So such incidents don't indicate plastic surgery.

    What next?

    Ancient Indians knew how to throw a small disk that would sever the head of evil and then return back to you? #chakra #krishna

    Thought controlled devices was invented by us then.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 29th October 2014 at 01:20.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    haha...you are right....

    Here's what I found on Google (looks similar to what my Gandma told me - since I am not a Shaivite, I am not too sure about the actual story):
    Vishnu cut off the elephant’s head using sudharshana chakra and fixed it on ganesha's body

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Let's award them both.

    The first plastic legend combo to exist in the world.

    Seriously though, doesn't Modi know that according to our religion, demi Gods (or Gods if you consider them) had special powers? So such incidents don't indicate plastic surgery.

    What next?

    Ancient Indians knew how to throw a small disk that would sever the head of evil and then return back to you? #chakra #krishna

    Thought controlled devices was invented by us then.
    Hindus like to think in a progressive way about the ancient texts. Additionally, there is never any rule which considers it a blasphemy if interpreted in any other way.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambi View Post
    Vishnu cut off the elephant’s head using sudharshana chakra and fixed it on ganesha's body
    Oh....didn't know that..so Vishnu is the world's first plastic surgeon then.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    Hindus like to think in a progressive way about the ancient texts. Additionally, there is never any rule which considers it a blasphemy if interpreted in any other way.
    Nothing wrong in believing in ancient texts. I do it too.

    But deriving conclusions in a public platform by assuming these things are true is not cool, bro.

    Reg interpretation - What demi Gods did - I am not sure how you can interpret it that way. You can (of course) but by this way, we can interpret a ton of stuff. Every religion can use the same yardstick to make 1000's of claims about inventing tons of stuff.

    Heard that ancient India had some advanced medical procedures...so talking about that stuff is fine. But to purely use scriptures to make claims about inventions is a bit too far.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 29th October 2014 at 01:29.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Oh....didn't know that..so Vishnu is the world's first plastic surgeon then.
    Dhanvanthari a avatar of vishnu is the lord of medicine and doctor of gods. So i think he is the first plastic Surgeon

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambi View Post


    Plastic Surgeon Lord Dhanvanthiri, he don't need the help of assistants
    Please don't make fun of someone's religion. What might be a joke to you might be an important belief for someone else.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarachiKing View Post
    Please don't make fun of someone's religion. What might be a joke to you might be an important belief for someone else.
    Iam a hindu, there is nothing offensive in my post.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyVenom View Post
    My understanding of the Ganesh story is that he obstructed Shiva from entering his home ( due to loyalty to his mother) and in a rage Shiva cut off his head. After his anger cooled down and showing remorse he found the head of the first thing he seen and attached it Ganesh body and declared Ganesh to be the strongest of all Gods.

    Sorry If I have not typed the story accurately...I'm curious as to the lessons behind it? What do Hindus get from this tale when it is transmitted - Is it a tale of reward for loyalty/bravery/sacrifice?
    If you are sincere in your desire to understand the meaning of Lord Ganesha, the nature of his divinity, and how incredibly rich and intricate in symbolism is the mythological narrative of his origin, I would suggest reading this essay as a start: http://devdutt.com/articles/indian-m...g-ganesha.html

  37. #37
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    So religious scriptures had cutting edge tech in them,lol. Some folks go nuts with religious things and here that person happens to be the leader of a the second largest populated country.


    "If this happens I will swim across the Charles River! In winter!" -- OZGOD on NZ batting 6 sessions

  38. #38
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    That's the problem with populist leaders. Once the rhetoric starts they don't know where to draw the line.


    They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!

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    Imagine Zaid Hamid becoming PM of Pakistan, thats whats happened in India.


    If you want to destroy a country, just create enmity between its people and their army - Salahuddin

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    We know Nano BLind bkahts will do, of it were Rahul Gandhi.A follower of an hypocrite is also an hypocrite, right?


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    Its his belief just like people believe that Allah exists. Who are you to question someone s religious beliefs?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanjeer View Post
    Its his belief just like people believe that Allah exists. Who are you to question someone s religious beliefs?
    Two wrongs don't make a right.


    They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!

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    A Indian PM trying to make people feel proud of their Hindu past? Burnol please.

    Don't see anything wrong with it as long as he is using it to motivate Indians to start becoming leaders in maths and science again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambi View Post
    Dhanvanthari a avatar of vishnu is the lord of medicine and doctor of gods. So i think he is the first plastic Surgeon
    Didn't know this. Now I understand why there is a lot of Dhanvanthari Medical shops in our state.

  46. #46
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    Hmm... So any religious belief apart from islamic ones are laughable. ..

    Keep it up... Guys!!

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    Pakistan´s very constitution is based on religion.Whats wrong if a person is proud of his religion?
    Last edited by DHONI183; 29th October 2014 at 14:20.


    aaj mujh ko bahut burā kah kar
    aap ne naam to liyā merā
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    The whole of the world is deluded about the awesomeness of their religious texts. Nothing new.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by anakin View Post
    Hmm... So any religious belief apart from islamic ones are laughable. ..

    Keep it up... Guys!!
    All posts against Modi have been by Hindus.
    Last edited by DHONI183; 29th October 2014 at 14:19.

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    I am just waiting for this honeymoon period that india is having with modi to get over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanjeer View Post
    Its his belief just like people believe that Allah exists. Who are you to question someone s religious beliefs?
    very different cases both one is belief nothing to do with rational though process while other is lying about the actual events( as a rational occurrence/scientific process) just to flaunt cultural nationalism(hindutva).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    He is proud of his heritage and there is nothing wrong in it..
    there are two different things when you put MODI thought process in context it is part of greater RSS ideology regarding cultural/religious/genetic nationalism on one hand it would hurt the modernization of indian society by trying to pit "ancient Indian culture" against western civilization as a nationalistic endeavor on second front it will promote fairy tales like there was always united India(akhand bharat) full of civilization and than foreigners came and this ultimately result in partition(even though partition was largely demographic/ethnic) all toll of this thought process will be on particular minority not good for society.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by amax View Post
    very different cases both one is belief nothing to do with rational though process while other is lying about the actual events( as a rational occurrence/scientific process) just to flaunt cultural nationalism(hindutva).
    One is a belief. Other is flaunting a belief. While different, they are two branches of the same tree.



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    Quote Originally Posted by RWAC View Post
    A Indian PM trying to make people feel proud of their Hindu past? Burnol please.

    Don't see anything wrong with it as long as he is using it to motivate Indians to start becoming leaders in maths and science again.
    Aren't they already proud of their Hindu past? Were they ashamed of it pre-Modi rise? Why so?

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    It is just a flight of fancy about genetic sciences.

    Regarding the practice of plastic surgery, it is well documented that Sushrut is the father of Plaster surgery.
    "Sushruta is considered the "Father of Plastic Surgery. He lived in India sometime between 1000 and 800 BC, and is responsible for the advancement of medicine in ancient India. He is notably famous for nasal reconstruction, which can be traced throughout the literature from his depiction within the Vedic period of Hindu medicine to the era of Tagliacozzi during Renaissance Italy to modern-day surgical practices."
    Source: National Center for Biotechnology Information, U.S. National Library of Medicine.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23788147


    Even though Ganesha is said have been born after the Sushrut era, it is difficult to believe the story to be true. Theres a reason it is called as 'mythology'. It is a myth, a story thougth it is quite possible that some student of Sushrut/Charaka performed surgeries of similar nature.

    Additional links:
    http://ispub.com/IJPS/4/2/8232
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sushrut...ures_described
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_surgery#History
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charaka
    Last edited by Abhilash93; 29th October 2014 at 18:04.

  56. #56
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    Watch the video., India had Plastic Surgery in 600 BC. Rhinoplasty was practiced in India for thousands of years. Watch it at the end of the video.

    Last edited by mithun_minhas; 29th October 2014 at 18:18.

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    Some more links:
    1. The Sushruta nasolabial flap
    http://www.bjoms.com/article/S0266-4...304-X/abstract
    2. Sushruta's lateral perineal approach for prostatectomy and repair of the ruptured posterior urethra.
    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2454697
    3. The nose between ethics and aesthetics: Sushruta's legacy.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17967632
    4. Knowledge of ancient Hindu surgeons on Hirschsprung disease: evidence from Sushruta Samhita of circa 1200-600 BC.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22075360
    5. Sushruta: The father of Indian surgery and ophthalmology
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9476614

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    Quote Originally Posted by niishaa View Post
    I am just waiting for this honeymoon period that india is having with modi to get over.
    unfortunately I think the same.

    My bet is that BJP will just about manage to win the 2nd term but then Modi will get vilified for the whole of his second term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KarachiKing View Post
    unfortunately I think the same.

    My bet is that BJP will just about manage to win the 2nd term but then Modi will get vilified for the whole of his second term.
    well i hope ur analysis is correct. Muh mein ghee shakkar!

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    Modi claims genetic science existed in ancient times

    The rhinoplasty of Sushruta was not like the plastic surgery of today. Instead terracotta noses were given to those with disfigured noses. It would have been quite an achievement in those days to make an artificial nose stick to the face but don't confuse it with plastic surgery.
    Last edited by moumotta; 30th October 2014 at 02:09.


    They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanjeer View Post
    Its his belief just like people believe that Allah exists. Who are you to question someone s religious beliefs?
    So, how did you manage to equate belief in Allah to some guy claiming that his religion had plastic surgery? I see what you are trying to do here. Pathetic stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by moumotta View Post
    The rhinoplasty of Sushruta was not like the plastic surgery of today. Instead terracotta noses were given to those with disfigured noses. It would have been quite an achievement in those days to make an artificial nose stick to the face but don't confuse it with plastic surgery.


    carefully watch the end of the video where the technique is demonstrated. Skin from the forehead or cheek was used for graft, not terracotta.

    "Sushruta also developed the otoplastic technique for reconstructing an earlobe with skin from the cheek, and the forehead flap rhinoplasty procedure that remains contemporary plastic surgical practice. In the Sushruta samhita compendium, the physician Sushruta describes the (modern) free-graft Indian rhinoplasty as the Nasikasandhana, wherein:

    The portion of the nose to be covered should be first measured with a leaf. Then, a piece of skin of the required size should be dissected from the living skin of the cheek, and turned back to cover the nose, keeping a small pedicle attached to the cheek. The part of the nose to which the skin is to be attached should be made raw, by cutting the nasal stump with a knife. The physician then should place the skin on the nose and stitch the two parts swiftly, keeping the skin properly elevated, by inserting two tubes of eranda (the castor-oil plant) in the position of the nostrils, so that the new nose has proper shape. The skin thus properly adjusted, it should then be sprinkled with a powder of liquorice, red sandal-wood, and barberry plant. Finally, it should be covered with cotton, and clean sesame oil should be continually applied. When the skin has united and granulated, if the nose is too short or too long, the middle of the flap should be divided, and an endeavour made to enlarge or shorten it. (Sushruta samhita 1.16)"

    Source: Sushruta: Rhinoplasty in 600 B.C
    http://ispub.com/IJPS/3/2/7839
    Last edited by Abhilash93; 30th October 2014 at 09:50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhilash93 View Post


    carefully watch the end of the video where the technique is demonstrated. Skin from the forehead or cheek was used for graft, not terracotta.

    "Sushruta also developed the otoplastic technique for reconstructing an earlobe with skin from the cheek, and the forehead flap rhinoplasty procedure that remains contemporary plastic surgical practice. In the Sushruta samhita compendium, the physician Sushruta describes the (modern) free-graft Indian rhinoplasty as the Nasikasandhana, wherein:

    The portion of the nose to be covered should be first measured with a leaf. Then, a piece of skin of the required size should be dissected from the living skin of the cheek, and turned back to cover the nose, keeping a small pedicle attached to the cheek. The part of the nose to which the skin is to be attached should be made raw, by cutting the nasal stump with a knife. The physician then should place the skin on the nose and stitch the two parts swiftly, keeping the skin properly elevated, by inserting two tubes of eranda (the castor-oil plant) in the position of the nostrils, so that the new nose has proper shape. The skin thus properly adjusted, it should then be sprinkled with a powder of liquorice, red sandal-wood, and barberry plant. Finally, it should be covered with cotton, and clean sesame oil should be continually applied. When the skin has united and granulated, if the nose is too short or too long, the middle of the flap should be divided, and an endeavour made to enlarge or shorten it. (Sushruta samhita 1.16)"

    Source: Sushruta: Rhinoplasty in 600 B.C
    http://ispub.com/IJPS/3/2/7839
    Amazing read. Unlike confusing verses that can be interpreted thousand different ways, this is actually quite detailed scientific methodology, and this is 600BC !

    These ancient Hindus were such rockstars !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandeep View Post
    He is proud of his heritage and there is nothing wrong in it..
    Well there is something wrong with being so proud you can convince yourself of something ridiculous

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    Modi is making Rick Perry look good.

    I can understand being proud of your religion and culture but there is a limit to it especially coming from a head of state.

    No offense to anyone but it makes you wonder why would Hindus worship a deity that needed a head transplant? Is God (or Gods) not the most powerful and almighty in the universe? The need for genetic experimentation should not even exist.

    I always heard from my close Hindu friends who I take liberty of discussing religion with that these Hindu deities are nothing more than symbolism. It is not like they are sitting up there or on a different planet watching over us mortals.

    Someone in Modi's position should not make such statements. The world will think you are a fool.
    Last edited by Stewie; 31st October 2014 at 00:27.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Electron View Post
    Amazing read. Unlike confusing verses that can be interpreted thousand different ways, this is actually quite detailed scientific methodology, and this is 600BC !

    These ancient Hindus were such rockstars !
    There is some Science in the way Ancient Indians did their things. They were advanced in terms of Science and Tech. But to say that we were idiots is wrong. The same way going overboard like Modi is also wrong.

    We should be proud of what our ancestors achieved. But we should not go overboard.

    I am sure Modi was trying to inspire youngstas more than anything with those comments.

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    Christianity is Indian !



    Superman is Indian !



    Leonardo Da Vinci was an Indian



    Santa Is Indian!

    Last edited by Muhammad10; 28th August 2017 at 00:46.


    “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule”

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yossarian View Post
    Christianity is Indian !



    Superman is Indian !



    Leonardo Da Vinci was an Indian



    Santa Is Indian!

    Thank you so much for sharing this

    Sending this to my Indian friends on facebook right now lol
    Last edited by Muhammad10; 28th August 2017 at 00:46.


    See You Space Cowboy....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhilash93 View Post


    carefully watch the end of the video where the technique is demonstrated. Skin from the forehead or cheek was used for graft, not terracotta.

    "Sushruta also developed the otoplastic technique for reconstructing an earlobe with skin from the cheek, and the forehead flap rhinoplasty procedure that remains contemporary plastic surgical practice. In the Sushruta samhita compendium, the physician Sushruta describes the (modern) free-graft Indian rhinoplasty as the Nasikasandhana, wherein:

    The portion of the nose to be covered should be first measured with a leaf. Then, a piece of skin of the required size should be dissected from the living skin of the cheek, and turned back to cover the nose, keeping a small pedicle attached to the cheek. The part of the nose to which the skin is to be attached should be made raw, by cutting the nasal stump with a knife. The physician then should place the skin on the nose and stitch the two parts swiftly, keeping the skin properly elevated, by inserting two tubes of eranda (the castor-oil plant) in the position of the nostrils, so that the new nose has proper shape. The skin thus properly adjusted, it should then be sprinkled with a powder of liquorice, red sandal-wood, and barberry plant. Finally, it should be covered with cotton, and clean sesame oil should be continually applied. When the skin has united and granulated, if the nose is too short or too long, the middle of the flap should be divided, and an endeavour made to enlarge or shorten it. (Sushruta samhita 1.16)"

    Source: Sushruta: Rhinoplasty in 600 B.C
    http://ispub.com/IJPS/3/2/7839
    There is a good chance the surgery stories are based on a hoax. The reference to terracotta nose was in one of the ancient travellers' tales I read. There are no references to anyone seeing a nose reconstruction in those days. It may be true but until more evidence emerges I would take it with a grain of salt like Macaulay's letter praisng Indian culture, emails about Indian scientists in NASA and those multitude of science miracles in Quran sites that all seem to refer to each other.
    Last edited by moumotta; 31st October 2014 at 03:25.


    They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Modi is making Rick Perry look good.

    I can understand being proud of your religion and culture but there is a limit to it especially coming from a head of state.

    No offense to anyone but it makes you wonder why would Hindus worship a deity that needed a head transplant? Is God (or Gods) not the most powerful and almighty in the universe? The need for genetic experimentation should not even exist.

    I always heard from my close Hindu friends who I take liberty of discussing religion with that these Hindu deities are nothing more than symbolism. It is not like they are sitting up there or on a different planet watching over us mortals.

    Someone in Modi's position should not make such statements. The world will think you are a fool.
    Yes it is equally absurd that God will deny good men heaven just because they refused to believe in a particular religion or they made paintings about him. God is not an ego-maniac.

    But then when you can accept and live with these absurd rules, I am sure you can understand, why God needed a surgery. Anyways in Hinduism, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv are the 3 main Gods (holy trinity). The rest of them derive their power from these 3.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Evil View Post
    Yes it is equally absurd that God will deny good men heaven just because they refused to believe in a particular religion or they made paintings about him. God is not an ego-maniac.

    But then when you can accept and live with these absurd rules, I am sure you can understand, why God needed a surgery. Anyways in Hinduism, Brahma, Vishnu and Shiv are the 3 main Gods (holy trinity). The rest of them derive their power from these 3.
    Anybody will find this idiotic and stupid. Fan fiction or Science fiction rather than actual science and a Head of State is propagating this nonsense.

    There are far smarter Hindus than this dude, thats for sure. He should not be leading them. I hope he meant it as a joke and was not serious about it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Anybody will find this idiotic and stupid. Fan fiction or Science fiction rather than actual science and a Head of State is propagating this nonsense.

    There are far smarter Hindus than this dude, thats for sure. He should not be leading them. I hope he meant it as a joke and was not serious about it.
    Anyone will find the religious texts they dont believe in idiotic and stupid. What Modi said, is believed in by staunch Hindus, just like science in Quran is believed in by Muslims. You can ridicule Modi, I dont care. But when you ridicule Hinduism, you are offending my faith. Which considering you are a Muslim, should be sensitive about

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Evil View Post
    Anyone will find the religious texts they dont believe in idiotic and stupid. What Modi said, is believed in by staunch Hindus, just like science in Quran is believed in by Muslims. You can ridicule Modi, I dont care. But when you ridicule Hinduism, you are offending my faith. Which considering you are a Muslim, should be sensitive about
    You have no idea about Hinduism then.Hinduism has always taught tolerance about differing views. Hindusim has always taught about NOT getting offended about anything people say as things are fleeting, truth is eternal. Your definition of staunch Hindus seem to be becoming exactly carbon copies of extremists of other religion and being offended about every small thing.

    I would suggest you go back and study the essence of Hinduism before calling yourself a staunch Hindu. And this is not mugging some lines from a religious book. Stop trying to copy other religion and it's follower. And by being offended, etc you are doing exactly that, you want Hinduism to be a copy of other religions which cannot be mocked. Hinduism always encourages debate, even human beings have debated and convinced God and made Him change his mind. Let us keep that spirit alive instead of trying to force a taliban regime and being offended by everything


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

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    For the OP, I will say what I have always said. Religion cannot claim things which science and scientists have spent decades developing. If it was in our ancient text, why didn't an India/Hindu scientist use it to develop and invent things? Why are we not pioneers of invention and discovery like the western world? What is the point of having false pride in such achievements?

    Some scientist spends his whole life struggling, working hard, sleepless, testing his hypothesis, tinkering with things, experimenting, improving stuff. Then some religious guy comes and says, hey this was in my book all along. Yeah right, that is why you could identify it ONLY after the scientist discovered and made it available to the masses.

    And we had genetic engineering but no concept of the basic vaccination process? A process which has saved millions of lives and still does? Yeah right

    We should always take immense pride in our culture. But not to the extant of making lies up to support it.


    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. --Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indiafan View Post
    You have no idea about Hinduism then.Hinduism has always taught tolerance about differing views. Hindusim has always taught about NOT getting offended about anything people say as things are fleeting, truth is eternal. Your definition of staunch Hindus seem to be becoming exactly carbon copies of extremists of other religion and being offended about every small thing.

    I would suggest you go back and study the essence of Hinduism before calling yourself a staunch Hindu. And this is not mugging some lines from a religious book. Stop trying to copy other religion and it's follower. And by being offended, etc you are doing exactly that, you want Hinduism to be a copy of other religions which cannot be mocked. Hinduism always encourages debate, even human beings have debated and convinced God and made Him change his mind. Let us keep that spirit alive instead of trying to force a taliban regime and being offended by everything
    Nice rant. Did you read the entire thread or did you just zero in on my comment to look cool?

    My post was more directed to people who find other religious texts illogical but ignore the logical holes in the religious texts they follow. If you are being liberal then be ready to criticize all texts.

    And do please spend some time in India talking to a staunch Hindu. You will realize they are as bad as the others. Why do think caste incidents/riots happen in India if everyone was liberal?
    Last edited by Pure Evil; 31st October 2014 at 20:01.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Evil View Post
    Anyone will find the religious texts they dont believe in idiotic and stupid. What Modi said, is believed in by staunch Hindus, just like science in Quran is believed in by Muslims. You can ridicule Modi, I dont care. But when you ridicule Hinduism, you are offending my faith. Which considering you are a Muslim, should be sensitive about
    Looks like I may have offended you, but believe me that was not my intention. My statement did not mean to insult any religion. I am also not opposed to trying to find science in religion. I believe there is a genuine case for it.

    What I am opposed to is the idea that genetic engineering was required for a diety that is considered to be all powerful. Because I believe that is insulting to someone who worships that diety. I hope that gets my point across to you.

    Some of what is included in the religious text can be rhetorical and symbolic and not necessarily literal with its roots in science. But people tend to take it that far. I am sure such instances can be found in all religious texts. It is up to us humans and followers of these religions to keep a logical, reasonable perspective on these interpretations and if a low level no name Mulla, Pandit or Priest fail in that regard, nobody cares but when a man in a position of power, such as Modi utters garbage like that, then it becomes a cause of concern, or should become a cause of concern to not only people of that country, but also followers of that religion.


    That was my point, take it with a grain of salt if you must, disagree with me, or whatever but please know that I DID NOT and DO NOT intend any insult to any religion, whatsoever.
    Last edited by Stewie; 31st October 2014 at 20:24.


    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by moumotta View Post
    There is a good chance the surgery stories are based on a hoax. The reference to terracotta nose was in one of the ancient travellers' tales I read. There are no references to anyone seeing a nose reconstruction in those days. It may be true but until more evidence emerges I would take it with a grain of salt like Macaulay's letter praisng Indian culture, emails about Indian scientists in NASA and those multitude of science miracles in Quran sites that all seem to refer to each other.
    Fair enough.
    Yes, it would be difficult to establish such things, since knowledge was primarily passed on orally. Also, it would mostly be confined to a handful of upper caste people. Also, much of the Ayurvedic texts in the Buddhist University of Nalanda were lost when it was ransacked by invaders sometime in the medieval period. The secret of Wootz steel and composition of the corrosion-resistant Iron Pillar in Delhi were similarly lost.
    That said, evidence of Sushruta is from secondary sources. Tibetian, Chinese and Arabic works refer to Sushruta specifically by name. Buddhists texts from the Vinaya texts to Milinda Panha contains ample evidence which is further backed by Chinese and Arabic texts.In the book of Celsus, there are excellent accounts of lithotomy and cataract operation, developed and practiced by ancient medical experts & described in Sushrut Samhita. Several Ayurvedic treatises were translated into Arabic such as Sushrut Samhita as KITAB-SHAWASOON-AL-HIND.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
    Looks like I may have offended you, but believe me that was not my intention. My statement did not mean to insult any religion. I am also not opposed to trying to find science in religion. I believe there is a genuine case for it.

    What I am opposed to is the idea that genetic engineering was required for a diety that is considered to be all powerful. Because I believe that is insulting to someone who worships that diety. I hope that gets my point across to you.

    Some of what is included in the religious text can be rhetorical and symbolic and not necessarily literal with its roots in science. But people tend to take it that far. I am sure such instances can be found in all religious texts. It is up to us humans and followers of these religions to keep a logical, reasonable perspective on these interpretations and if a low level no name Mulla, Pandit or Priest fail in that regard, nobody cares but when a man in a position of power, such as Modi utters garbage like that, then it becomes a cause of concern, or should become a cause of concern to not only people of that country, but also followers of that religion.


    That was my point, take it with a grain of salt if you must, disagree with me, or whatever but please know that I DID NOT and DO NOT intend any insult to any religion, whatsoever.
    No worries dude. No offence taken. I understand where you are coming from.

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    Religion. Giving people guidance and hope since time immemorial..



    Kut khani hai to aa jao idher, khushbo laga ke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abhilash93 View Post
    Fair enough.
    Yes, it would be difficult to establish such things, since knowledge was primarily passed on orally. Also, it would mostly be confined to a handful of upper caste people. Also, much of the Ayurvedic texts in the Buddhist University of Nalanda were lost when it was ransacked by invaders sometime in the medieval period. The secret of Wootz steel and composition of the corrosion-resistant Iron Pillar in Delhi were similarly lost.
    That said, evidence of Sushruta is from secondary sources. Tibetian, Chinese and Arabic works refer to Sushruta specifically by name. Buddhists texts from the Vinaya texts to Milinda Panha contains ample evidence which is further backed by Chinese and Arabic texts.In the book of Celsus, there are excellent accounts of lithotomy and cataract operation, developed and practiced by ancient medical experts & described in Sushrut Samhita. Several Ayurvedic treatises were translated into Arabic such as Sushrut Samhita as KITAB-SHAWASOON-AL-HIND.
    I am not questioning the existence of Sushruta or his treatise. Now if its translations from medieval times exit then it should be easy to compare them with the new versions to check if the new version has been corrupted intentionally or accidentally.


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