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  1. #1
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    "Muralitharan was a bigger chucker than Ajmal" : Mohammad Yousuf

    Quotes from Mohammad Yousuf, who spoke on TV after end of day 1

    "Younis Khan is an excellent Test player and I have never doubted his abilities"
    "To be able to score 27 centuries for Pakistan is an incredible achievement"
    "Younis is a must in our ODI squad, not because of his Test performance, but because our ODI squad is not strong"
    "Younis has not been scoring runs in ODIs for a long time now"
    "You cannot select a player in ODIs on the basis of his Test performance"
    "Misbah's captaincy in Test cricket is helping him cement a place in the World Cup squad"
    "He's scored 69 and he's on the verge of winning the series, so his place is safe"
    "Pakistan can only lose this Test match if lightening strikes their hotel or if all of their players go blind tomorrow"
    "However, Misbah's style of play is not suited for a middle order ODI batsman"
    "Azhar Ali played an excellent knock, but we cannot select him for ODIs because we already have too many naturally slow players"
    "Pakistan need Saeed Ajmal, but it remains to be seen if he's still the same bowler as before"
    "If he's not the old Saeed Ajmal once his action is changed, it can cost Pakistan"
    "Muralitharan was the biggest chucker I've played against"
    "I'm sure Muralitharan was a bigger chucker than Saeed Ajmal"
    "I used to say to Murali that only due to leniency in rules, he's allowed to bowl otherwise his action was highly suspect"
    "He used to bowl every delivery with a different pace"
    "From non-striker's end, you could see Murali putting extra effort and chucking when he was not taking wickets"
    "Saeed Anwar used to play Muralitharan with no difficulty at all"
    "He used to treat Murali just like a professional player would treat a school boy"
    "Saqlain Mushtaq is the best off-spin bowler of all times"
    Last edited by BeingFaridKhan; 31st October 2014 at 01:11.

  2. #2
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    Such an abominable, putrid, cynical man is Yousuf.

  3. #3
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    The true analytical depth of our man is revealed.

    Haha - but why am I complaining? He's saying exactly what I have been saying.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  4. #4
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    I just can't understand our analysts, esp. this man!


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  5. #5
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    What a joke Yousuf is.

  6. #6
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    Here we go again.

  7. #7
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    Think Pakistan's current performance has completely put him off - I am sure he goes prepared to the studios to hope that Pakistan are collapsing in a heap but he just cant believe it!

    Poor man.


    For the latest updates on Cricket, follow @PakPassion on Twitter

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MenInG View Post
    Think Pakistan's current performance has completely put him off - I am sure he goes prepared to the studios to hope that Pakistan are collapsing in a heap but he just cant believe it!

    Poor man.
    I'm sure majority of our ex-cricketers turned TV analysts do exactly what he does!


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  9. #9
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    Wow....

    What a disgusting thing to say?

    For nicety sake, certain stuff are generally not talked about in media.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

  10. #10
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    Did the guy just contradict himself? YK hasn't been scoring runs in ODIs and he shouldn't be selected in odis based on tests but YK is must in ODI squad.

    Mind = Blown.


    2 possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are terrifying.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Did the guy just contradict himself? YK hasn't been scoring runs in ODIs and he shouldn't be selected in odis based on tests but YK is must in ODI squad.

    Mind = Blown.
    He needs to go to a mental asylum.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

  12. #12
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    He didn't say that. OP has got it wrong.

    What he said was that Muralitharan was bowling within those rules made by ICC.. he even said to him it's chucking but it's within the ICC rules so it's alright.

    He said with regard to Ajmal, that if he was banned for chucking then Murali even chucked more. But he should know that time ICC were lenient but now they are serious and suddenly woke up..
    Last edited by MRSN; 31st October 2014 at 01:07.

  13. #13
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    "Misbah's captaincy in Test cricket is helping him cement a place in the World Cup squad"
    "He's scored 69 and he's on the verge of winning the series, so his place is safe"
    Must have really hurt for him to say this but to his credit he said it.


    Yes there are sports other than cricket. Keep track of what's happening at @SportsPakPassion on Twitter!

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Did the guy just contradict himself? YK hasn't been scoring runs in ODIs and he shouldn't be selected in odis based on tests but YK is must in ODI squad.

    Mind = Blown.
    Pretty sure it's mistranslated and out of context. What he's trying to imply is that YK shouldn't be selected for ODI's on ODI form but because of our weak middle order in ODI's and with his current form in tests, he can be selected.
    Last edited by Fastandfurious; 31st October 2014 at 01:24.

  15. #15
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    Spot on Yousuf.

    Herath the greatest spinner from SL.
    Last edited by Fastandfurious; 31st October 2014 at 01:30.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastandfurious View Post
    Pretty sure it's mistranslated.
    He's talking about WC and ODI as separate things


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    He didn't say that. OP has got it wrong.

    What he said was that Muralitharan was bowling within those rules made by ICC.. he even said to him it's chucking but it's within the ICC rules so it's alright.

    He said with regard to Ajmal, that if he was banned for chucking then Murali even chucked more. But he should know that time ICC were lenient but now they are serious and suddenly woke up..
    No, he did admit it. 1) Murali used to be a bigger chucker than Ajmal 2) He went to Murali to make him realize he chucks 3) He was the biggest chucker in those days.

    Maybe, you missed some part of the show!


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  18. #18
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    I don't understanding the hate towards Yousuf, he is one of very few ex-players who calls it how it is without worrying what the current players will think.
    Last edited by BlackThunder; 31st October 2014 at 01:28.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    Wow....

    What a disgusting thing to say?

    For nicety sake, certain stuff are generally not talked about in media.
    No niceness in Pak media. We are brutal, it's just a casual convo for us.

  20. #20
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    What is the point of his type of analysis? Hes hardly got anything positive to say about most people and seems to only criticise and snipe

    He also doesn't provide any tactical insights or expertise, who pays him for this type of rubbish?


    If pakistan cricket is to move forward they need to stop going back


  21. #21
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    He's right

  22. #22
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    the tone and intent seems to be clearly lost in translation.

    not Yousuf's personality's biggest fan but this is unnecesaary villification

  23. #23
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    Well apparently he had the stones to call Murli out on it and tell him what he thinks. Most his comments are correct though where and when he says them probably could do with improvement.

  24. #24
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    I don't really like Yousaf, but on this occasion every word is clearly true.

    And the non-striker would, along with the umpire, have the best view of any chucking. I found most disturbing the revelation that when Murali wasn't taking wickets he resorted to chucking more blatantly. It doesn't just support the longstanding suspicions, but also implies that his biomechanical testing was invalid, and he was therefore wrongfully cleared of chucking.

    I don't believe that prominent chuckers - even nice ones like Ajmal and Murali - were accidentally pushing the limits of legal straightening. I think they deliberately tested the limits, or put less deferentially they deliberately did as much as they could get away with.

    It's just a shame that the clampdown comes too late for Murali to be tested to the new, more valid standards, in which the action used in the lab has to match the one used in matches.

    I listened to an episode of the BBC's Test Match Special not long ago, in which Simon Hughes explained that when they splinted Murali's arm so that it couldn't be straightened he could still bowl the doosra but so slowly that even a tailender could recognise it instantly. The inference didn't need to be stated explicitly: the doosra he used in matches was of normal pace and he couldn't bowl it with a straight arm.
    Last edited by Junaids; 31st October 2014 at 03:46.

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    "Pakistan can only lose this Test match if lightening strikes their hotel or if all of their players go blind tomorrow"
    Only a dagga can come up with this stupid analogy, pathetic. who comes on national television and say stuff like that ?

  26. #26
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    Cant say I dont disagree with MoYo. Murali was a chucker and would have been banned in todays game.


    Aanay do!

  27. #27
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    Quotes from Mohammad Yousuf, who spoke on TV after end of day 1

    "Younis Khan is an excellent Test player and I have never doubted his abilities"
    "To be able to score 27 centuries for Pakistan is an incredible achievement"
    "Younis is a must in our ODI squad, not because of his Test performance, but because our ODI squad is not strong"
    "Younis has not been scoring runs in ODIs for a long time now"
    "You cannot select a player in ODIs on the basis of his Test performance"
    "Misbah's captaincy in Test cricket is helping him cement a place in the World Cup squad"
    "He's scored 69 and he's on the verge of winning the series, so his place is safe"
    "Pakistan can only lose this Test match if lightening strikes their hotel or if all of their players go blind tomorrow"
    "However, Misbah's style of play is not suited for a middle order ODI batsman"
    "Azhar Ali played an excellent knock, but we cannot select him for ODIs because we already have too many naturally slow players"
    "Pakistan need Saeed Ajmal, but it remains to be seen if he's still the same bowler as before"
    "If he's not the old Saeed Ajmal once his action is changed, it can cost Pakistan"
    "Muralitharan was the biggest chucker I've played against"
    "I'm sure Muralitharan was a bigger chucker than Saeed Ajmal"
    "I used to say to Murali that only due to leniency in rules, he's allowed to bowl otherwise his action was highly suspect"
    "He used to bowl every delivery with a different pace"
    "From non-striker's end, you could see Murali putting extra effort and chucking when he was not taking wickets"
    "Saeed Anwar used to play Muralitharan with no difficulty at all"
    "He used to treat Murali just like a professional player would treat a school boy"
    "Saqlain Mushtaq is the best off-spin bowler of all times"
    The bold one i don't agree with. The rest of the points i agree.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalikMohsin View Post
    I agree with this post, but Mohammad Yousuf has history of being controversial. Betrayed Pakistan twice for ICL. Never mind the fact that he was one of many senior cricketers allegedly involved in undermining the captaincy of Shoaib Malik and Younus Khan. Oath-gate attests to that.

    It was allegation alright but not pathetic given his history. Same goes with your beloved cricketer aka selfish, beghairat and traitor.
    You need to get over your crush on Malik and quit bringing Afridi into unrelated threads. Malik is finished and should never ever be selected for Pakistan again. Deal with it.

  29. #29
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    This thread is about Mohammad Yousuf. So, stick with that. So much for sticking with the topic.

    Mohammad Yousuf has controversial history which begs the question brought by MIG is valid.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalikMohsin View Post
    This thread is about Mohammad Yousuf. So, stick with that. So much for sticking with the topic.

    Mohammad Yousuf has controversial history which begs the question brought by MIG is valid.
    Maybe you should follow what you preach, you bought Afridi into this and ofcourse bought your beloved Malik into this who was a pathetic captain and cricketer since 2009. Good riddance the captaincy was taken away from such a pathetic player.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    Maybe you should follow what you preach, you bought Afridi into this and ofcourse bought your beloved Malik into this who was a pathetic captain and cricketer since 2009. Good riddance the captaincy was taken away from such a pathetic player.
    I agree with this post, but Mohammad Yousuf has history of being controversial. Betrayed Pakistan twice for ICL. Never mind the fact that he was one of many senior cricketers allegedly involved in undermining the captaincy of Shoaib Malik and Younus Khan. Oath-gate attests to that.

    It was allegation alright but not pathetic given his history. Same goes with your beloved cricketer aka selfish, beghairat and traitor.
    That is still within the similar point. Regarding unnamed senior cricketer, that's bonus, yet the similar point cannot be ignored.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalikMohsin View Post
    That is still within the similar point. Regarding unnamed senior cricketer, that's bonus, yet the similar point cannot be ignored.
    You are just trolling and spamming as usual.

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  33. #33
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    Arguing between Afridi and Malik is like deciding between what is more painful, a stubbed toe or a kick to the face.


    See You Space Cowboy....

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    You are just trolling and spamming as usual.

    Sent from my SGH-T999V using Tapatalk
    I still stand by what i said earlier. You are making this personal, not my fault.

    I agree with this post, but Mohammad Yousuf has history of being controversial. Betrayed Pakistan twice for ICL. Never mind the fact that he was one of many senior cricketers allegedly involved in undermining the captaincy of Shoaib Malik and Younus Khan. Oath-gate attests to that.

    It was allegation alright but not pathetic given his history. Same goes with your beloved cricketer aka selfish, beghairat and traitor
    This is very crucial point. MIG's allegation is not pathetic as the Oath-Gate attests to that.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalikMohsin View Post
    I still stand by what i said earlier. You are making this personal, not my fault.
    This is very crucial point. MIG's allegation is not pathetic as the Oath-Gate attests to that.
    Nothing personal. I hope someone let's Yousaf know about these allegations.

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  36. #36
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    Muralitharan was the biggest chucker I've played against"
    "I'm sure Muralitharan was a bigger chucker than Saeed Ajmal"
    "I used to say to Murali that only due to leniency in rules, he's allowed to bowl otherwise his action was highly suspect"
    "He used to bowl every delivery with a different pace"
    "From non-striker's end, you could see Murali putting extra effort and chucking when he was not taking wickets"

    Hahahahaa Hilarious stuff. About
    Moyo left Bishen Bedi behind in this single dig against Murali

  37. #37
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    I guess he forgot about Shabbir Ahmed

  38. #38
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    Murali should sue him.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savak View Post
    You need to get over your crush on Malik and quit bringing Afridi into unrelated threads. Malik is finished and should never ever be selected for Pakistan again. Deal with it.
    Yeah same as afridi... Now yasir shah is there to fill in his shoes ...

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electron View Post
    Murali should sue him.
    i think its a personal opinion... If murali has to sue , then he should start with the aussies first, to name a few darrel hair, shane warne and even dean jones i believe...

  41. #41
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    I dont know why yousuf is being asked to analyse on TV shows...
    I was ROFLMAO for "Pakistan can only lose this Test match if lightening strikes their hotel or if all of their players go blind tomorrow"
    every now and then he criticises someone for something, this is too much negativity, and he was rightly axed and kept at bay by the PCB... He is an excellent batsmen no doubted about it but as an individual too risk to have him in a team where he will surely mess with his fellow team-mate..

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    I dont know why yousuf is being asked to analyse on TV shows... every now and then he criticises someone for something, this is too much negativity, and he was rightly axed and kept at bay by the PCB... He is an excellent batsmen no doubted about it but as an individual too risk to have him in a team where he will surely mess with his fellow team-mate..



    My unforgettable memory of Mohammed yousuf is the evil stare at Saman butt for running him out in a test match against Australia in Australia and criticizing Salman butt in media for running him out. It was unbelievable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    He needs to go to a mental asylum.
    isn't that too personal????

    you may disagree with his comment as you have all the right to do so but this is insulting i think.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ask_analyse_act View Post
    I dont know why yousuf is being asked to analyse on TV shows...
    M. Yousuf and Shoaib Akhter = RATINGS

    They both provide enough drama and masala news to create a buzz during the series. There are people who only tune into these news channels to see them whining and bashing everyone during the series.

  45. #45
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    peoples have issues with him as he is very much outspoken but here whats wrong with his statement apart of his personality.

    Indeed murali is the biggest & the first chucker of history, its like underarm ball law where trevor made the most use of law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leatherface58 View Post
    Did the guy just contradict himself? YK hasn't been scoring runs in ODIs and he shouldn't be selected in odis based on tests but YK is must in ODI squad.

    Mind = Blown.
    Have a read of this:

    "Misbah's captaincy in Test cricket is helping him cement a place in the World Cup squad"
    "He's scored 69 and he's on the verge of winning the series, so his place is safe"


    Don't take him too seriously.


    "Don't just raise the standard, be the standard."

  47. #47
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    This time he is spot on!

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    Of course it looks like Murali chucks to the naked eye. Clearly some ppl still dont get what an optical illusion is. The difference between guys like Ajmal, Sena, Shillingford, Botha etc and Murali is that unlike those guys Murali is an out and out freak of nature. His physical deformities allowed him to do things that normal" folk could only dream of. But they also made it look like he was flat out chucking to the naked eye. Thats just the price he had to pay I guess.

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    Btw this is what Daryl Foster from UWA had to say about Murali in a recent interview. Interesting read that.

    http://phone.espncricinfo.com/ci/con...ry/785343.html

    "People went all wrong with Murali but he kept his angle very fixed," Foster says. "He got all his turn with his shoulder, it wasn't his elbow or really his wrists. He was no worse in terms of extension than Glenn McGrath or any of those sorts of guys."

    "I couldn't believe my eyes when I first saw him bowl. I thought, 'This bloke is an absolute chucker.' He has been proven legal the whole time, which means don't trust these," Foster says, pointing to his eyes. "The problem for umpires and the media is, they only see it in 2D, they don't understand that 3D produces some surprising results."

    "It is an absolute shame his career has been tarnished. In Australia, journalists, ex-umpires and basically the entire cricket fraternity would not accept the results. One of the things I feel most guilty about is, we weren't able to convince them that he was a legal bowler."

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by junaid.ahmed View Post
    isn't that too personal????

    you may disagree with his comment as you have all the right to do so but this is insulting i think.
    Yeah I guess.

    Moyo was probably my favorite Pak bat when he used to play but seeing his bitterness and mudslinging as an analyst is disappointing.
    Last edited by sensible-indian-fan; 31st October 2014 at 15:06.


    Truth is treason in an empire of lies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    I don't really like Yousaf, but on this occasion every word is clearly true.

    And the non-striker would, along with the umpire, have the best view of any chucking. I found most disturbing the revelation that when Murali wasn't taking wickets he resorted to chucking more blatantly. It doesn't just support the longstanding suspicions, but also implies that his biomechanical testing was invalid, and he was therefore wrongfully cleared of chucking.

    I don't believe that prominent chuckers - even nice ones like Ajmal and Murali - were accidentally pushing the limits of legal straightening. I think they deliberately tested the limits, or put less deferentially they deliberately did as much as they could get away with.

    It's just a shame that the clampdown comes too late for Murali to be tested to the new, more valid standards, in which the action used in the lab has to match the one used in matches.

    I listened to an episode of the BBC's Test Match Special not long ago, in which Simon Hughes explained that when they splinted Murali's arm so that it couldn't be straightened he could still bowl the doosra but so slowly that even a tailender could recognise it instantly. The inference didn't need to be stated explicitly: the doosra he used in matches was of normal pace and he couldn't bowl it with a straight arm.
    Here you go again with all this made up nonsense.

    Nope that's not always the case. What the ump and anyone else on the field or watching on telly sees is two dimensional. When it comes to normal bowlers then yeah the umpires and players etc can usually spot a dodgy action (ie more than 15 or so deg) but not everyone is normal now are they? Some guys like Murali, Akhtar and Lee for example are not "normal" folk. So just because someone has a funny looking action it doesn't necessarily mean that they are over the limit. When you're going to stop people from being employed you need to have that based on fact not fiction.

    http://www.researchgate.net/publicat...video_analysis

    It is impossible for an umpire conclusively to cite a bowler for an illegal action based only on naked eye observation. To do this the umpire would need to be in at least three different positions throughout a single delivery. Similarly, video footage shot from at least three different angles during the bowler's delivery action would need to be viewed by the match referee. By viewing the delivery from only one position, the visual illusion of a "throw" will be created by the presence of a large "carrying angle".
    Always coming up with these baseless allegations. That is all you do!

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/c...ry/789267.html

    Biomechanists at UWA insist that they strongly support a clampdown on illegal bowling actions - to the extent that they freely contend that the ICC's laxer approach in recent years had been a contributory factor in recent events as they seek to make amends for years of relative inaction.

    Specifically, UWA expressed concerns about the monitoring of Ajmal's action after it had cleared the bowler in a previous assessment in 2009 - including comments it made to Geoff Allardice, the ICC's general manager of cricket, earlier this year. The ICC, however, does not regard it as appropriate for a testing centre to pass comment on monitoring procedures, which is regards as outside its jurisdiction.

    Marlon Samuels is another player whose action has been an issue. He was cleared by the ICC to bowl deliveries falling under a certain speed, a decision the UWA now presents as flawed. As one academic told ESPNcricinfo, "We did not think his report was valid as he, in our view, appeared to not replicate his match action in the lab testing. But the ICC didn't act. We found it ridiculous that he was cleared to bowl deliveries under a particular speed given the error associated with measuring speed via speed guns during a match.
    And what exactly do you know about the current tests btw? Apart form all your ** that is.

    Of course bowling with a brace on will affect the speed of the deliveries. Its not really rocket science. Its pretty much impossible to bowl properly without any straightening (ie chucking), and bowling with a brace on is not only uncomfortable but it also allows zero straightening. Murali may well have gone slightly over the 15 deg limit from time to time with his doosra during matches, but Im sure he wasnt/isn't the only one.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16939154

    (This study was carried out by Cricket Aus btw)

    When grouped by delivery length, the bouncers and short deliveries recorded more elbow straightening (12 +/- 6.6 degrees) than the good length deliveries (9 +/- 4.4 degrees) and the full deliveries (8 +/- 5.7 degrees), although these were not statistically significant differences.
    As for Simon Hughes this is his actual view on Murali and the doosra.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cri...he-doosra.html

    The only way of propelling the delivery 22 yards with any speed is by projecting it, rather than bowling it, unless you have a double-jointed wrist as Muttiah Muralitharan had.

    As a strictly non-scientific experiment, I then put a brace on my elbow (made out of taped up copies of Telegraph Sport) and tried both deliveries again. My off-break was slightly slower, though it did still turn. But the doosra was absolutely impossible. With my arm forcibly straightened I could not get the ball out of the back of my hand at all except in the direction of extra cover, and then so slowly that I could have jogged behind and retrieved it myself before it had stopped.

    During the years that Channel 4 covered live Test cricket, Murali was filmed with such a brace on his arm.

    He still produced wickedly spinning off-breaks and doosras, but he was a freak who could not straighten his bowling arm anyway.

    For the rest of us, the doosra is just a marvel of unique biomechanics that few people enjoy and we can only dream about.
    As for the speed of his deliveries Murali has NEVER been found to go over the 15 deg mark, even when he bowled close to 100 kph deliveries during testing.

    http://m.espncricinfo.com/srilanka/c...ry/235693.html

    The tests showed that Murali's average elbow extension while bowling the doosra at 86.5 kmph was 12.2 degrees and for the offbreak it was 12.9 degrees at 95 kmph, well within the stipulated ICC limit of 15 degrees.

    "There's nothing more he could do," said Bruce Elliot, a UWA scientist. "The latest testing shows, irrespective of whether he's bowling a doosra or an off-break, all his deliveries were under 15 degrees, so none were illegal." He said Muralitharan was bowling faster because of a shoulder surgery he underwent in 2004.
    You seriously need to stop with all this **.

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    SL_fan, your name really betrays your loyalties.

    Many of us - probably a majority of us outside Asia - watched appalled as Murali was allowed, in our opinions, to chuck his way to a bogus world wicket-taking record. And we scratched our heads at how such a manifestly illegal action supposedly passed scrutiny in the biomechanics lab.

    I am a great admirer of Pakistani cricket too, and I must confess that I shared similar concerns about Saeed Ajmal, and felt deeply sorry for Bob Willis when he was crucified for telling the truth about Ajmal chucking.

    Bit by bit we have learned how Murali managed to pass his testing. We know from eyewitnesses like Mohammad Yousaf that he used to vary his action and chuck more blatantly when he wasn't taking wickets. We also know that the UWA lab was sympathetic to bowlers who straightened their arms, especially spinners, and used to move around the markers to deliver more palatable results and used to refuse to use real in-game footage to ensure that the bowler under examination was using his real action rather than a falsely-sanitised one. In the early days of biomechanical testing it was probably easy to pull the wool over the eyes of any testers anywhere. It seems obvious to me that Murali was capable of bowling legally for all the talk of his disability, rather like Ajmal and Shoaib Malik, and that when he was in a testing lab he chose to use his legal action. Unfortunately he exhibited no such scruples on the pitch according to the testimony of people like Yousaf.

    The ICC has woken up to the problem. They know the real reason why UWA refuse to compare the lab action to in-game footage and they are no longer prepared to accredit the UWA as a testing centre, although the UWA claims that it is their own choice to withdraw, rather like the deadbeat husband in the western world who makes sure that he dumps his wife just before she can do it to him.

    It is too late to bring Murali's action to justice. He remains cleared by a dodgy process.

    But those of us in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and England know precisely what that means - as do many Asians like Bishan Bedi - and the majority of us no more consider Murali to hold a world record than Ben Johnson, or Flo-Jo or Lance Armstrong. To us Murali is a footnote of history, like Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez.

    Some murderers get away with murder. And some sportsmen get away with cheating.
    Last edited by Junaids; 31st October 2014 at 16:19.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    SL_fan, your name really betrays your loyalties.

    Many of us - probably a majority of us outside Asia - watched appalled as Murali was allowed, in our opinions, to chuck his way to a bogus world wicket-taking record. And we scratched our heads at how such a manifestly illegal action supposedly passed scrutiny in the biomechanics lab.

    I am a great admirer of Pakistani cricket too, and I must confess that I shared similar concerns about Saeed Ajmal, and felt deeply sorry for Bob Willis when he was crucified for telling the truth about Ajmal chucking.

    Bit by bit we have learned how Murali managed to pass his testing. We know from eyewitnesses like Mohammad Yousaf that he used to vary his action and chuck more blatantly when he wasn't taking wickets. We also know that the UWA lab was sympathetic to bowlers who straightened their arms, especially spinners, and used to move around the markers to deliver more palatable results and used to refuse to use real in-game footage to ensure that the bowler under examination was using his real action rather than a falsely-sanitised one. In the early days of biomechanical testing it was probably easy to pull the wool over the eyes of any testers anywhere. It seems obvious to me that Murali was capable of bowling legally for all the talk of his disability, rather like Ajmal and Shoaib Malik, and that when he was in a testing lab he chose to use his legal action. Unfortunately he exhibited no such scruples on the pitch according to the testimony of people like Yousaf.

    The ICC has woken up to the problem. They know the real reason why UWA refuse to compare the lab action to in-game footage and they are no longer prepared to accredit the UWA as a testing centre, although the UWA claims that it is their own choice to withdraw, rather like the deadbeat husband in the western world who makes sure that he dumps his wife just before she can do it to him.

    It is too late to bring Murali's action to justice. He remains cleared by a dodgy process.

    But those of us in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and England know precisely what that means - as do many Asians like Bishan Bedi - and the majority of us no more consider Murali to hold a world record than Ben Johnson, or Flo-Jo or Lance Armstrong. To us Murali is a footnote of history, like Barry Bonds or Alex Rodriguez.

    Some murderers get away with murder. And some sportsmen get away with cheating.
    Dude, you are pushing with your **, Murali was not a cheater for ICC set the 15 degree law.
    You want to blame some one, blame the scientists who cleared Murali time and time again. He was cleared four times by my count. If the technology then was not complete then that is not Murali's fault. Blame the scientists.
    And your opinion none the less is irrelevant. Murali is not a footnote. He is the highest wicket taker in ODI and Test cricket so you need to stick it up and suck it down.


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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    SL_fan, your name really betrays your loyalties.

    Many of us - probably a majority of us outside Asia - watched appalled as Murali was allowed, in our opinions, to chuck his way to a bogus world wicket-taking record. And we scratched our heads at how such a manifestly illegal action supposedly passed scrutiny in the biomechanics lab.

    I am a great admirer of Pakistani cricket too, and I must confess that I shared similar concerns about Saeed Ajmal, and felt deeply sorry for Bob Willis when he was crucified for telling the truth about Ajmal chucking.

    Bit by bit we have learned how Murali managed to pass his testing. We know from eyewitnesses like Mohammad Yousaf that he used to vary his action and chuck more blatantly when he wasn't taking wickets. We also know that the UWA lab was sympathetic to bowlers who straightened their arms, especially spinners, and used to move around the markers to deliver more palatable results and used to refuse to use real in-game footage to ensure that the bowler under examination was using his real action rather than a falsely-sanitised one. In the early days of biomechanical testing it was probably easy to pull the wool over the eyes of any testers anywhere. It seems obvious to me that Murali was capable of bowling legally for all the talk of his disability, rather like Ajmal and Shoaib Malik, and that when he was in a testing lab he chose to use his legal action. Unfortunately he exhibited no such scruples on the pitch.

    The ICC has woken up to the problem. They know the real reason why UWA refuse to compare the lab action to in-game footage and they are no longer prepared to accredit the UWA as a testing centre, although the UWA claims that it is their own choice to withdraw.

    It is too late to bring Murali's action to justice. He remains cleared by a dodgy process.

    But those of us in Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and England know precisely what that means.

    Some murderers get away with murder. And some chuckers retire in time to get away with chucking.
    Again with these baseless allegations. Your opinion is just your opinion. An ill-informed opinion at that.

    Ajmal and Murali are completely different cases. Murali was just a freak of nature.

    You do realise that what you see on telly or what someone sees from a fixed point is two dimensional right? Last time I checked straightening is a three dimensional measurement.

    So what exactly does UWA biomechanists have to gain by wrongfully clearing dodgy bowlers? Why would they put their professional careers and reputations on the line?

    As I posted earlier ICC has been the culprit all along.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/c...ry/789267.html

    Biomechanists at UWA insist that they strongly support a clampdown on illegal bowling actions - to the extent that they freely contend that the ICC's laxer approach in recent years had been a contributory factor in recent events as they seek to make amends for years of relative inaction.

    Specifically, UWA expressed concerns about the monitoring of Ajmal's action after it had cleared the bowler in a previous assessment in 2009 - including comments it made to Geoff Allardice, the ICC's general manager of cricket, earlier this year. The ICC, however, does not regard it as appropriate for a testing centre to pass comment on monitoring procedures, which is regards as outside its jurisdiction.

    Marlon Samuels is another player whose action has been an issue. He was cleared by the ICC to bowl deliveries falling under a certain speed, a decision the UWA now presents as flawed. As one academic told ESPNcricinfo, "We did not think his report was valid as he, in our view, appeared to not replicate his match action in the lab testing. But the ICC didn't act. We found it ridiculous that he was cleared to bowl deliveries under a particular speed given the error associated with measuring speed via speed guns during a match.
    Now what do you have to say about that?

    Murali underwent what half a dozen tests or so and he was even banned from bowling the doosra initially. He was even tested bowling close to 100 kph. Yeah must have been a real good faker. Not to mention various other bowlers have also been banned by UWA. Must be just random bannings right?

    All you can do is make false accusations and come up with baseless allegations. How about you present some actual facts for a change eh?

  55. #55
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    The fact is obvious. We all saw with our eyes what Murali did when he bowled.

    I am not for a single second impressed by the fact that he supposedly owns the world record for Test wickets.

    Flo-Jo supposedly still holds the womens' world records for the 100 metres and 200 metres records. But no amount of make-up could conceal her steroid-induced acne, no amount of nail varnish could distract from her changed body shape and nothing can bring her back after her death at the age of just 38 due to her prolific abuse of performance-enhancing drugs.

    Flo-Jo supposedly was exonerated as was Murali. But noone in their right mind considers that she was not cheating - she just wasn't brought to justice. Just like Lance Armstrong got away with years of cheating until 2012.

    Murali had the good fortune to come up against testers at the dawn of testing, and to eventually fall upon a cabal of testers in Perth who sympathised with spinners who straightened their arms.

    That doesn't make him clean. It means that he escaped sporting justice.

  56. #56
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    Murali has retired, some people just need to get over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    The fact is obvious. We all saw with our eyes what Murali did when he bowled.
    Yep, it's obvious that you fail to understand even the most basic of facts with regards to Murali's action and the reasons for the ICC's 15 degree tolerance.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
    Yep, it's obvious that you fail to understand even the most basic of facts with regards to Murali's action and the reasons for the ICC's 15 degree tolerance.
    Well, I'm quite happy to hide behind the fact that I'm a doctor of medicine with a physics A level and a maths A level. In combination that means that I understand about flexion and extension and I understand about geometry and motion.

    I would argue that my academic background means that I don't fall for the excuses put forward by UWA for why they shouldn't compare the action used in the lab with the one used in matches.

    And frankly, I still believe that the 15 degree margin of permitted chucking was introduced as a political measure to allow Murali to bowl. It was a dumb decision which partially legalised chucking and opened the floodgates for all the cheats who we have seen over the last decade.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Well, I'm quite happy to hide behind the fact that I'm a doctor of medicine with a physics A level and a maths A level. In combination that means that I understand about flexion and extension and I understand about geometry and motion.

    I would argue that my academic background means that I don't fall for the excuses put forward by UWA for why they shouldn't compare the action used in the lab with the one used in matches.

    .
    Your academic background makes your attitude even more laughable.

    Not to mention that being a doctor has pretty much no relevance here

    And frankly, I still believe that the 15 degree margin of permitted chucking was introduced as a political measure to allow Murali to bowl.
    Let's ignore the fact that "clean" bowlers like McGrath were straightening by as much as 12 degrees shall we? We don't want the facts to get in the way of your preconceived narrative.
    Last edited by Big Mac; 31st October 2014 at 17:48.

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    @SL_Fan the greatest spinner from SL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Such an abominable, putrid, cynical man is Yousuf.
    What has he said there that is incorrect?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post

    And frankly, I still believe that the 15 degree margin of permitted chucking was introduced as a political measure to allow Murali to bowl. It was a dumb decision which partially legalised chucking and opened the floodgates for all the cheats who we have seen over the last decade.
    Of course it was. SL played the racism card long enough that the rules were changed to allow Murali to carry on chucking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Of course it was. SL played the racism card long enough that the rules were changed to allow Murali to carry on chucking.
    No, they were changed because if they didn't then they'd have to ban half of the bowlers playing international cricket. Repeating this nonsense isn't going to make it true, no matter how desperately you want it to be true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
    Your academic background makes your attitude even more laughable.

    Not to mention that being a doctor has pretty much no relevance here



    Let's ignore the fact that "clean" bowlers like McGrath were straightening by as much as 12 degrees shall we? We don't want the facts to get in the way of your preconceived narrative.
    McGrath has never been tested so how did you come to the conclusion that he straightened by 12 degrees, considering that you cant tell with the naked eye. Have you swallowed the fairy tale started on forums that McGrath chucked.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
    No, they were changed because if they didn't then they'd have to ban half of the bowlers playing international cricket. Repeating this nonsense isn't going to make it true, no matter how desperately you want it to be true.
    Perhaps we just have to agree to disagree.

    I'd like to suggest, however, that you bear in mind the following points:

    1) I'm Kumar Sangakkara's biggest fan on this board, and
    2) This is one area where I hate having to agree with Darrell Hair, who I like marginally more than Dr Mengele, Fred West and One Direction.

    The fact that people like me have the opinions that we do about Murali really is not based upon a dislike of Sri Lanka. It's based upon a view that chucking is cheating.

    And I feel desperately sorry for Rangana Herath, a clean and highly-skilled spinner, who lost 60% of his international career because a bowler who was more effective because he cheated and chucked was selected in his place.
    Last edited by Junaids; 31st October 2014 at 18:21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    McGrath has never been tested so how did you come to the conclusion that he straightened by 12 degrees, considering that you cant tell with the naked eye. Have you swallowed the fairy tale started on forums that McGrath chucked.
    Mate, Mcgrath clearly had a slight kink in his action but he'd be under 15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    McGrath has never been tested so how did you come to the conclusion that he straightened by 12 degrees, considering that you cant tell with the naked eye. Have you swallowed the fairy tale started on forums that McGrath chucked.
    ICC tested in game actions on every bowler during the Champions Trophy (in England iirc?) and the only, I repeat ONLY, bowler who didn't straighten his arm was Ramnaresh Sarwan.

    It was all very public knowledge and the fact that you claim it's a fairy tale started on forums just speaks to your ignorance on the issue.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Perhaps we just have to agree to disagree.

    I'd like to suggest, however, that you bear in mind the following points:

    1) I'm Kumar Sangakkara's biggest fan on this board, and
    2) This is one area where I hate having to agree with Darrell Hair, who I like marginally more than Dr Mengele, Fred West and One Direction.

    The fact that people like me have the opinions that we do about Murali really is not based upon a dislike of Sri Lanka. It's based upon a view that chucking is cheating.

    And I feel desperately sorry for Rangana Herath, a clean and highly-skilled spinner, who lost 60% of his international career because a bowler who was more effective because he cheated and chucked was selected in his place.
    Did I say you had any anti-Sri Lankan bias?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
    No, they were changed because if they didn't then they'd have to ban half of the bowlers playing international cricket. Repeating this nonsense isn't going to make it true, no matter how desperately you want it to be true.
    Respectfully, I disagree.

    While the research indicated that everyone chucks to some extent, the ruling allowed the most egregious chucker of all to carry on cheating with impunity, flexing his elbow past the limit in the certain knowledge that the umps would not call him for fear that they would be hounded out of the game as racists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
    ICC tested in game actions on every bowler during the Champions Trophy (in England iirc?) and the only, I repeat ONLY, bowler who didn't straighten his arm was Ramnaresh Sarwan.

    It was all very public knowledge and the fact that you claim it's a fairy tale started on forums just speaks to your ignorance on the issue.
    NOT every bowler. The ONLY major bowler of the time who was not tested was Muthiah Muralitharan who did not play in that 2004 Champions Trophy. So we wouldn't know whether he chucked 30 or 40 in match conditions. It is scandalous that ICC made all these statements but conveniently avoided ever testing Murali during a match.
    Last edited by Tapioca; 31st October 2014 at 19:31.

  71. #71
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    I always wonder how much UWA's indulgence of chucking spinners is due to enduring Western Australian affection for Tony Lock. He was England's greatest ever left-arm spinner, but a chucker, and retired to WA, where just prior to his death he was accused of sexual offences with a 10 year old and a 14 year old many years earlier.

    Many Western Australians associate him with the coming of age of their cricket and Perth's rise to hosting international cricket.

    It's just a thought.

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    Spot on by Yousuf, Younis and Misbah should be nowhere near the ODI team here.

    This is my lineup for ODI's
    1. Shehzad
    2. Farhat
    3. Shoaib Malik
    4. U.Akmal
    5. Maqsood
    6. Sarfraz
    7. Hafeez
    8. Sohail Tanvir
    9. Yasir Shah
    10. Junaid
    11. Irfan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    The fact is obvious. We all saw with our eyes what Murali did when he bowled.

    I am not for a single second impressed by the fact that he supposedly owns the world record for Test wickets.

    Flo-Jo supposedly still holds the womens' world records for the 100 metres and 200 metres records. But no amount of make-up could conceal her steroid-induced acne, no amount of nail varnish could distract from her changed body shape and nothing can bring her back after her death at the age of just 38 due to her prolific abuse of performance-enhancing drugs.

    Flo-Jo supposedly was exonerated as was Murali. But noone in their right mind considers that she was not cheating - she just wasn't brought to justice. Just like Lance Armstrong got away with years of cheating until 2012.

    Murali had the good fortune to come up against testers at the dawn of testing, and to eventually fall upon a cabal of testers in Perth who sympathised with spinners who straightened their arms.

    That doesn't make him clean. It means that he escaped sporting justice.
    Of course to the naked eye it looks like Murali is chucking. But straightening is a three dimensional measurement, not two dimensional (ie what you see from a fixed point or what you see on telly). Not sure what part of that is so difficult to understand?

  74. #74
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    Then question remains:

    Why was Muralitharan allowed to bowl with a natural deformity that gave him extra leverage compared to other bowlers? If you don't meet certain physical requirements, you shouldn't be allowed and no exceptions should be made. Yes it is unfortunate, but this is how it is. So many people failed to get selected in Armed Forces because they don't meet certain established standards.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Well, I'm quite happy to hide behind the fact that I'm a doctor of medicine with a physics A level and a maths A level. In combination that means that I understand about flexion and extension and I understand about geometry and motion.

    I would argue that my academic background means that I don't fall for the excuses put forward by UWA for why they shouldn't compare the action used in the lab with the one used in matches.

    And frankly, I still believe that the 15 degree margin of permitted chucking was introduced as a political measure to allow Murali to bowl. It was a dumb decision which partially legalised chucking and opened the floodgates for all the cheats who we have seen over the last decade.
    And yet you seem to think that you can measure something which is three dimensional via a two dimensional source? Wow! As Big Mac said it only makes your attitude even more laughable.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL_Fan View Post
    And yet you seem to think that you can measure something which is three dimensional via a two dimensional source? Wow! As Big Mac said it only makes your attitude even more laughable.
    Murali chucked, everyone but a guy whose lab has been discredited by the Ajmal testing results agrees.

  77. #77
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    lol at someone backing their opinion by their A levels. every tom, dick and harry does that

    Considering I gave 6 A levels, I am an expert In a wide range of fields it seems

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Then question remains:

    Why was Muralitharan allowed to bowl with a natural deformity that gave him extra leverage compared to other bowlers? If you don't meet certain physical requirements, you shouldn't be allowed and no exceptions should be made. Yes it is unfortunate, but this is how it is. So many people failed to get selected in Armed Forces because they don't meet certain established standards.
    The issue here is straightening so if he's not over the limit then what's the problem? He chucks it as much as other "normal" bowlers. But because of his physical abnormalities his action looks bad. You can't ban a bowler simply because his action looks bad. What matters is the degrees of straightening. That's the rule.

  79. #79
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    Murali did javelin throw it.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MalikFan2015 View Post
    Murali chucked, everyone but a guy whose lab has been discredited by the Ajmal testing results agrees.
    Thank you for that Mr armchair biomechanist. Why use technology and experts in the field when there are wannabe highly qualified experts like yourself to make these sorts of decisions


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