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View Poll Results: Should Shamima Begum be allowed back in the UK?

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  • Yes

    6 23.08%
  • No

    20 76.92%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    IS bride Shamima Begum 'having British citzenship removed'

    IS bride Shamima Begum is having her British citizenship removed by the Home Office, her family's lawyer says.

    In a statement, Tasnime Akunjee said: "Family are very disappointed with the Home Office's intention to have an order made depriving Shamima of her citizenship.

    "We are considering all legal avenues to challenge this decision."

    Shamima Begum, who fled her London home aged 15 to go to Syria and wed an Islamic State fighter, has told how she wants to come back to Britain.

    The 19-year-old gave birth this week in a Syrian refugee camp.

    https://news.sky.com/story/is-bride-...moved-11642230
    If it is against international law to have citizenship removed for a person of a single nationality, how can she have her citizenship removed? The article seems to contradict itself.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahsan17 View Post
    The fact that she is still an adult and feels no remorse or regrets suggests she should not be let into the UK. Going to another country to essentially work for a terrorist cult like ISIS should be considered treason by any country not Saudi Arabia. It should be made clear that you cannot work for a terrorist group and then without showing any remorse or regret ask to be considered just another civilian. If she was still a minor, it would be one thing. She is an adult now and feels no different.

    With that being said, from what I am hearing, she is a national of UK and doesn't have dual nationality. If that's the case, UK would have no choice but to take her in. They can still prosecute her for treason though.
    I’ve heard this argument a lot. That she is an adult now...
    But isn’t that what grooming all about? You don’t suddenly just switch on to reality after that much abuse...

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Iíve heard this argument a lot. That she is an adult now...
    But isnít that what grooming all about? You donít suddenly just switch on to reality after that much abuse...
    I understand your position, but then why does she want to come back if she has no remorse and no regret for her previous actions, including expressing feeling no remorse witnessing a beheading as that person was an "enemy of Islam"? It is pure personal self interest - she still says she stands by "the cause".

    Personally I think that yes, she should be allowed back to face possible prosecution and investigation, but the tax payer shouldn't have to foot a bill in a special mission to rescue her because of her own foolish decisions, which she still stands by without regret or remorse.

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, these people are not representative of Muslims and they have been involved in atrocious brutalities. She should not be given a special pass or sympathy from muslims just because she is a muslim (although I don't know if ISIS can justifiably call themselves Muslim when they pervert a religion so much).

    She will be afforded far more in terms of justice then if the situation was reversed.
    Last edited by Blistering Barnacle; 20th February 2019 at 01:15.

  4. #84
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    no one from isis should be let back, seriously, they chose to live in a state of merciless terror, and only came back when they need something from the british state.

    she may be a british citizen, but her return serves no purpose, and barring her from return sets a useful precedent, too many people went with the expectation that the british state would save them when it all turned to crap. will force anyone to think twice in the future if they know they cant come back.

    all this before considering the harm these people have done to the reputation of honest muslims in this country.

  5. #85
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    According to news, her citizenship has been revoked. An opportunist lunatic with no remorse or common sense deserved what she got. Now just get that baby out of her evil hands and give it to her parents in UK.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    IS bride Shamima Begum 'having British citzenship removed'

    IS bride Shamima Begum is having her British citizenship removed by the Home Office, her family's lawyer says.

    In a statement, Tasnime Akunjee said: "Family are very disappointed with the Home Office's intention to have an order made depriving Shamima of her citizenship.

    "We are considering all legal avenues to challenge this decision."

    Shamima Begum, who fled her London home aged 15 to go to Syria and wed an Islamic State fighter, has told how she wants to come back to Britain.

    The 19-year-old gave birth this week in a Syrian refugee camp.

    https://news.sky.com/story/is-bride-...moved-11642230
    Awesome update! You turn against your own country, show less/no signs of repentance and want to come back again for what - to pop one out there in the UK and turn your offspring as a jihadist in 15-20 years against the very nation that made you whom you are? Accepting her back would be a slap in the face for the British soldiers who had laid their lives down for the country over the years. Glad the British government took the right decision here.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abdullah719 View Post
    IS bride Shamima Begum 'having British citzenship removed'

    IS bride Shamima Begum is having her British citizenship removed by the Home Office, her family's lawyer says.

    In a statement, Tasnime Akunjee said: "Family are very disappointed with the Home Office's intention to have an order made depriving Shamima of her citizenship.

    "We are considering all legal avenues to challenge this decision."

    Shamima Begum, who fled her London home aged 15 to go to Syria and wed an Islamic State fighter, has told how she wants to come back to Britain.

    The 19-year-old gave birth this week in a Syrian refugee camp.

    https://news.sky.com/story/is-bride-...moved-11642230
    So much hate for a teenage girl.

    I am horrified by the Home Office decision. She should have been brought home, tried for Treason, deprogrammed and rehabilitated.

    It seems as though UK gets a little bit nastier with every passing day.
    Last edited by Robert; 20th February 2019 at 04:10.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    So much hate for a teenage girl.

    I am horrified by the Home Office decision. She should have been brought home, tried for Treason, deprogrammed and rehabilitated.

    It seems as though UK gets a little bit nastier with every passing day.
    It is a knee jerk, baying to the mob, careerist decision.

    I expect legal challenges.

  9. #89
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    I have no sympathy for the girl.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    So much hate for a teenage girl.

    I am horrified by the Home Office decision. She should have been brought home, tried for Treason, deprogrammed and rehabilitated.

    It seems as though UK gets a little bit nastier with every passing day.
    Hard to rehabilitate someone who enjoys beheadings and shows no remorse.

  11. #91
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    She should not be allowed back in the UK. Chances are that if she is will cause some sort of damage like supporting an attack or blowing herself up. I do not trust her one bit at all when she has no regrets of doing what she did. She is a terror lover who should live the rest of her life with ISIS in war zones. Any such person stupid enough to join any terrorist group should have their citizenship revoked.


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  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Hard to rehabilitate someone who enjoys beheadings and shows no remorse.
    How do you know? The girl has been brutalised and desensitised to violence. She committed a criminal act - Treason to the Crown. In the UK we try to rehabilitate criminals, not take their statehood away.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaribo View Post
    It is a knee jerk, baying to the mob, careerist decision.

    I expect legal challenges.
    It is, and simply shows the declining morality of British politics. On QT last week it was good to hear Jacob Rees Mogg explaining why the girl should be let into the country. But this is not surprising from the Home Office when May is in power.

    Are we declining someone of statehood simply on the basis of their beliefs? The person has not been proven of committing any crime.

    Yet the country seems stubborn on preventing this girl coming in, because of the danger she poses?! If people think stopping this girl is the UK's no.1 crime prevention priority then folk must be sleep walking through life!

    The number of people killed in London alone hit a 10-year high in 2018 and more than a fifth of victims were children and teenagers, figures show.

    There were 134 homicides recorded by the Metropolitan Police included 24 where the victims were aged 19 or under. Of those, 18 were stabbed, five were shot and one woman was killed by a head injury; simply in London. Nearly 2000 knife crimes reported across the UK in 2018.

    Yet Begum seems to be crime prevention priority number one! Well now she cant enter everyone can sleep in peace.

  14. #94
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    I don't really understand the logic behind revoking citizenship. I don't want her back here, but if she's not a British citizen, what is she? There are British citizens who went to fight illegally for the Kurdish militias and they not only kept their citizenship, but are writing opinion articles for respected newspapers after returning home.

    Let her come back, try her in court, then chuck her in prison.


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  15. #95
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    Glad to see common sense prevail among the govt and the posters here (going by the polls thus far). She made that choice, ran away from her parents and shows little to no remorse for her actions.

    Keep her well away from UK. We don't need anymore individuals who are (or associated) with the kharwarji.

  16. #96
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    She made the choice, doesn't even show remorse or really apoogised, no regrets as well. So how can she be trusted? what is she is colluding to do something dangerous? She should never be allowed back and wherever she goes she needs to be locked up for a long time.

  17. #97
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    Shamima Begum - the teenager who fled London to join Islamic State group in Syria - has said being stripped of her British citizenship is "unjust".

    Ms Begum, 19, told ITV news that she found the Home Office's decision "heart-breaking" - but she may try for citizenship via her Dutch husband.

    Her family have said they plan to challenge the government's decision.

    Government sources said it was possible to revoke her UK nationality as she was eligible for citizenship elsewhere.

    Her mother is believed to be a Bangladeshi national which means under Bangladesh law Ms Begum would be too, said Lord Carlile, a former independent reviewer of terrorism legislation.

    However, when asked by the BBC, Ms Begum said she did not have a Bangladeshi passport and had never been to the country.

    Ms Begum was a schoolgirl when she left Bethnal Green in 2015. She was found in a Syrian refugee camp last week after reportedly leaving Baghuz - IS's last stronghold.

    She gave birth to a son at the weekend and now wants to return home.

    A Home Office spokesperson said the department did not comment on individual cases but decisions to remove citizenship were "based on all available evidence and not taken lightly".

    The spokesperson said: "In recent days the home secretary has clearly stated that his priority is the safety and security of Britain and the people who live here."


    ITV News showed Ms Begum a copy of the Home Office's letter - which had been sent to her mother. Ms Begum said: "I am a bit shocked. It's a bit upsetting and frustrating. I feel like it's a bit unjust on me and my son."

    She added: "Another option I might try with my family is my husband is from Holland and he has family in Holland.

    "Maybe I can ask for citizenship in Holland. If he gets sent back to prison in Holland I can just wait for him while he is in prison."

    Ms Begum's husband is a Dutch convert to Islam and is thought to have surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters about two weeks ago.

    The lawyer for Ms Begum's family, Tasnime Akunjee, said they were considering "all legal avenues" to contest the Home Office decision.

    Mr Akunjee told the Independent that the Bangladesh government "does not know who she is". He said: "Our position is that to all practical purposes she has been made stateless."

    What does the law say?
    Under the 1981 British Nationality Act, a person can be deprived of their citizenship if the home secretary is satisfied it would be "conducive to the public good" and they would not become stateless as a result.

    Ms Begum has the right to challenge the Home Office's decision either by tribunal or judicial review, said Lord Carlile.

    Lord Carlile told BBC Breakfast: "The test will be of reasonableness and proportionality so she would have to establish that the home secretary acted in an entirely disproportionate way in removing her nationality.

    "That might be a difficult challenge for her because he appears to have acted within the law if it is indeed the case that she is entitled to Bangladesh nationality."

    He said it was a "complex issue" which "could run for a very long time through the courts", and Ms Begum could stay where she is "for maybe two years at least".

    Lord Carlile said the nationality of Ms Begum's baby was "even more complicated".

    As the baby's father is believed to be Dutch, he may be entitled to Dutch nationality as well as British and "probably Bangladesh nationality".

    A child born to a British parent before they are deprived of their citizenship would still be considered British.

    While it would theoretically be possible for the UK to then remove citizenship from the child, officials would need to balance their rights against any potential threat they posed.

    Dal Babu, a former Metropolitan Police chief superintendent and friend of Ms Begum's family, said they were "very surprised" by what seemed to be a "kneejerk reaction" by the Home Office.

    Stressing that Ms Begum had never been to Bangladesh, Mr Babu said: "It seems to be a bizarre decision and I'm not entirely sure how that will stand up legally."

    Former Conservative Home Secretary Ken Clarke said turning people away would be a "great boost for jihadism" as the "hundreds of foreign jihadis stuck in camps in northern Syria" would be further radicalised, he said.

    And MP Joanna Cherry, the SNP's spokeswoman for justice and home affairs, said the home secretary's actions "are more about his leadership ambitions than security issues or due process".

    Islamic State has lost most of the territory it once controlled, but between 1,000 and 1,500 militants are believed to be left in a 50 sq km (20 sq mile) area near Syria's border with Iraq.

    Mr Javid told MPs earlier this week that more than 100 dual nationals had already lost their UK citizenship after travelling in support of terrorist groups.

    Last year, two British men, accused of being members of an IS cell dubbed "The Beatles" were stripped of their citizenship after being captured in Syria.

    In an interview with the BBC on Monday, Ms Begum said she never sought to be an IS "poster girl" and now simply wished to raise her child quietly in the UK.

    Ms Begum left the UK with two school friends, Kadiza Sultana and Amira Abase in February 2015. Ms Sultana is thought to have died when a house was blown up, and the fate of Ms Abase is unknown.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47301623


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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Glad to see common sense prevail among the govt and the posters here (going by the polls thus far). She made that choice, ran away from her parents and shows little to no remorse for her actions.

    Keep her well away from UK. We don't need anymore individuals who are (or associated) with the kharwarji.
    Why is there a distinction between a white born English person and someone of asian origin?
    Remember she was born and raised in the UK and has never even been to Bangladesh.

    Doesn't it set a bad precedent?

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Hard to rehabilitate someone who enjoys beheadings and shows no remorse.
    I feel you are too young, you are amazing at programming but feels like you think in binary terms as well.
    No one is saying she shouldn't be punished,but she is a British citizen and Britain should accept that and punish/reform her there.

  20. #100
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    I definitely dislike he reply here, did she expect things to be easy?
    She did screw up, and why are they trying for Western countries now?

  21. #101
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    She showed no remorse. She shouldn't have been forgiven.

    She should've jailed for 8-10 years with rehabilitation.

    But, her citizenship shouldn't have been revoked.

  22. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    She showed no remorse. She shouldn't have been forgiven.

    She should've jailed for 8-10 years with rehabilitation.

    But, her citizenship shouldn't have been revoked.
    That pretty much sums up my thinking..

  23. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    That pretty much sums up my thinking..
    Mine too as expressed in the previous post. She should either be killed over there, or jailed over here. I don't see how you can revoke her citizenship because she had Bangladeshi parents. What if her parents were Scottish?


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  24. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kohli, The King of Chase View Post
    She showed no remorse. She shouldn't have been forgiven.

    She should've jailed for 8-10 years with rehabilitation.

    But, her citizenship shouldn't have been revoked.
    Fine by me.

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Mine too as expressed in the previous post. She should either be killed over there, or jailed over here. I don't see how you can revoke her citizenship because she had Bangladeshi parents. What if her parents were Scottish?
    Exactly. The more you think about this decision the more absurd it seems.

    I wonder what my kids think about this ruling. They are born and brought up here and must surely feel discriminated against.

  26. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Why is there a distinction between a white born English person and someone of asian origin?
    Remember she was born and raised in the UK and has never even been to Bangladesh.

    Doesn't it set a bad precedent?
    Has nothing to do with her being of Asian descent - UK is well within its rights to revoke her citizenship since she is able to claim nationality in Holland and/or Bangladesh and I'm sure their stance would not change for anyone else who is eligible to claim citizenship elsewhere.

    Last thing we need is her supporting terrorism in the UK and raising a child who could go on to become a potential terrorist.

    The UK govt has a duty of care towards their citizens and it would be unjust for the tax payer to fund for the legal proceedings and keeping her in prison, so we should welcome this decision which I'm sure will act as a deterrent for anyone else who considers fleeing the UK to join ISIS or any other terrorist organisation.
    Last edited by topspin; 20th February 2019 at 21:20.

  27. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blistering Barnacle View Post
    I think that a lot of people that feel sympathy for this lady are confused by associating her with Islam and muslims.

    I think it should be clear - she is not representative of Islam or Muslims.

    ISIS is a killer of muslims and Islam, brutally so, and far from representative of Islam.

    This dangerous group of fanatics needs to be wiped out. They are in no way an example of Muslims or an example of the kind of life most muslims want to lead.

    So once again, don't feel any sympathy for this unrepentant entitled idiot because she claims to be a muslim.
    Well said. I agree with you. We have enough hate without these attention seekers adding to it. She left at her own volition and now she cant then turn around and tell us that the health service is bad and she wants to come back.Whatever people may think or read the UK is very tolerant place where i am free to practice my religion, and i want to keep it that way.

  28. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    Exactly. The more you think about this decision the more absurd it seems.

    I wonder what my kids think about this ruling. They are born and brought up here and must surely feel discriminated against.
    She wasnt deported to the Islamic state, she left to go to help these murderous thugs who have killed muslims and others, and has shown no remorse. I am sick of these losers making us muslims as some sort of bloody thirsty barbarians.

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    ISIS made her a poster child and UK is rightly doing the same to show the repercussions. She's just a tool

  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Has nothing to do with her being of Asian descent - UK is well within its rights to revoke her citizenship since she is able to claim nationality in Holland and/or Bangladesh and I'm sure their stance would not change for anyone else who is eligible to claim citizenship elsewhere.

    Last thing we need is her supporting terrorism in the UK and raising a child who could go on to become a potential terrorist.

    The UK govt has a duty of care towards their citizens and it would be unjust for the tax payer to fund for the legal proceedings and keeping her in prison, so we should welcome this decision which I'm sure will act as a deterrent for anyone else who considers fleeing the UK to join ISIS or any other terrorist organisation.
    The debate about citizenship is an important one because it draws a line between the native white brits and anyone else who was born here but has parents from different countries.
    Today we're talking about someone who left the country to join a terrorist group, tomorrow it could be stripping their citizenship due to committing a far less despicable crime. I think this is why there was a law in the first place which prevented countries from striping citizenship.

    Why should any person born in this country be treated differently to those whose parents were born abroad?

    Coming back to this girl, she was clearly groomed and abused and is still mentally disturbed.
    Just because she's turned 19 doesn't mean that her mind is clear from this abuse. Any other crime and this person would have been treated differently. Why distinguish now?

    Also, the deterrence argument doesn't really apply here. If anything it makes it easier for the abuser to brainwash young kids especially when they promise an eternity of paradise etc etc etc

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    She wasnt deported to the Islamic state, she left to go to help these murderous thugs who have killed muslims and others, and has shown no remorse. I am sick of these losers making us muslims as some sort of bloody thirsty barbarians.
    She was a child going through adolensce, being given attention from men and promised an eternity of paradise...Probably suffering from some mental deficiencies too.

    Anyway, the real debate is not about whether the British Tax payers should be paying for her detention, rehabilitation or what not... It is about her citizenship. That is the bit that doesn't sit well with me.

  32. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    She was a child going through adolensce, being given attention from men and promised an eternity of paradise...Probably suffering from some mental deficiencies too.

    Anyway, the real debate is not about whether the British Tax payers should be paying for her detention, rehabilitation or what not... It is about her citizenship. That is the bit that doesn't sit well with me.
    If she was deported unfairly i would be with you, but she wasnt. The British govts first priority is to provide security for its citizens, with her here it can't. Sorry but people have to live with the consequences of their actions.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    If she was deported unfairly i would be with you, but she wasnt. The British govts first priority is to provide security for its citizens, with her here it can't. Sorry but people have to live with the consequences of their actions.
    This is it though she is not being deported, she is being stripped of her citizenship.
    Also, from what I gather, the women in ISIS were never used for fighting.. It seems only for cooking and making babies. So doubt she would be a security risk either.

    Finally, something like 300 fighters have already returned so why discriminate against this girl?
    because of her attitude? If anything her attitude tells me that she is one messed up individual hardened by seeing so much loss of like and from being abused by her "husband". Losing two babies must also be a strain on her sanity.

  34. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Has nothing to do with her being of Asian descent - UK is well within its rights to revoke her citizenship since she is able to claim nationality in Holland and/or Bangladesh and I'm sure their stance would not change for anyone else who is eligible to claim citizenship elsewhere.

    Last thing we need is her supporting terrorism in the UK and raising a child who could go on to become a potential terrorist.

    The UK govt has a duty of care towards their citizens and it would be unjust for the tax payer to fund for the legal proceedings and keeping her in prison, so we should welcome this decision which I'm sure will act as a deterrent for anyone else who considers fleeing the UK to join ISIS or any other terrorist organisation.
    How is she able to claim nationality in Holland or Bangladesh? I am struggling to see why they would be more bound to accept her than Britain. Also, do you think the same rules should then apply to the British people who left illegally to fight on the other side in Syria?


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    Incidentally, I don't accept that she was groomed, so no sympathy with her on that score, she's not a kid any more and seems to show little regret for her decision. My only issue is with the stripping of nationality because it has applied because she has foreign parents. That's a slippery slope and means those of us who have been born and brought up here are judged differently from our white compatriots due purely to our heritage.


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  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Incidentally, I don't accept that she was groomed, so no sympathy with her on that score, she's not a kid any more and seems to show little regret for her decision. My only issue is with the stripping of nationality because it has applied because she has foreign parents. That's a slippery slope and means those of us who have been born and brought up here are judged differently from our white compatriots due purely to our heritage.
    This to is my main issue.

  37. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    How is she able to claim nationality in Holland or Bangladesh? I am struggling to see why they would be more bound to accept her than Britain. Also, do you think the same rules should then apply to the British people who left illegally to fight on the other side in Syria?
    Because UK revoked her citizenship first or she will have to rot with ISIS in the Levant region.

    Yes the UK would do the same to anyone else who becomes an associate of a terrorist/ terrorist organisation and is eligible for citizenship elsewhere.
    Last edited by topspin; 20th February 2019 at 22:18.

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Because UK revoked her citizenship first.

    Yes the UK would do the same to anyone else who becomes an associate of a terrorist/ terrorist organisation and is eligible for citizenship elsewhere.
    How does the UK revoking her British citizenship first, second or last, somehow bestow upon her eligibility for Dutch or Bangladeshi citizenship? Not sure I follow you.


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  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    How does the UK revoking her British citizenship first, second or last, somehow bestow upon her eligibility for Dutch or Bangladeshi citizenship? Not sure I follow you.
    Read my post again - I amended this to factor in the possibility of Holland and Bangladesh rejecting her citizenship application.

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    Quote Originally Posted by topspin View Post
    Read my post again - I amended this to factor in the possibility of Holland and Bangladesh rejecting her citizenship application.
    Ok, so you have now changed your position thus recognising that your initial idea she was eligible for Dutch or Bangladeshi citizenship was incorrect. Your qualification that she should be left in the Levant has more weight, and is probably closer to what I would prefer, but then what if the authorities there don't accept British citizens who immigrated to fight their faction? I am assuming that is the real issue for British authorities as they will have to take some responsibility for their subjects abroad.

    This is why I suggested the best option might be just to ignore them and hope the Kurds just kill them off over there like Sally Jones the former punk singer, that way the question of citizenship doesn't arise. Just imagine if she was alive, it would be pretty difficult to imagine how you could dream up Dutch or Syrian nationality for her.


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  41. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMY69 View Post
    This is it though she is not being deported, she is being stripped of her citizenship.
    Also, from what I gather, the women in ISIS were never used for fighting.. It seems only for cooking and making babies. So doubt she would be a security risk either.

    Finally, something like 300 fighters have already returned so why discriminate against this girl?
    because of her attitude? If anything her attitude tells me that she is one messed up individual hardened by seeing so much loss of like and from being abused by her "husband". Losing two babies must also be a strain on her sanity.
    Obviously it will be tested in court and if its legal so much the better, and if it isnt it will be overturned. I am sick and tired of these losers defining Islam as blood thirsty barbarians and i have no sympathy. My concern is the silent Majority of Muslins whose life is made harder by the actions these criminals.

  42. #122
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    The government has risked a diplomatic rift with Bangladesh over the fate of Islamic State recruit Shamima Begum.

    The Home Office has stripped the 19-year-old of her British citizenship to dash her hopes of returning to the UK to raise her baby son, who she recently gave birth to in Syrian refugee camp.

    Although he has not commented directly on the case, Home Secretary Sajid Javid seemed to confirm on Wednesday the government felt able to take such action because she is a dual national or has the right to citizenship elsewhere.

    Under international law, it is illegal for a country to make someone stateless by removing their citizenship.

    Shamima Begum is believed to be a dual British-Bangladeshi national, although her family's lawyer has said the UK-born teenager of Bangladeshi heritage has never had a Bangladeshi passport and is not a dual citizen.

    The Bangladeshi government has now also declared Shamima Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and that she is a British citizen by birth and has never applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh.

    The country's foreign minister, Shahrial Alam, added there is no question of her being allowed to enter into Bangladesh.

    There are various criteria that have to be met if she is to be prevented from returning to the UK.

    Earlier, Mr Javid suggested Shamima Begum's son can be British - and allowed into the UK - despite his mother being barred.

    He hinted her child's right to be British would be unaffected by his department's action.

    Answering an urgent question in the Commons, he told MPs: "Children should not suffer, so if a parent does lose their British citizenship, it does not affect the rights of their child.

    "Deprivation is a powerful tool that can only be used to keep the most dangerous individuals out of this country and we do not lose it lightly.

    "But when someone turns their back on the fundamental values and supports terror, they don't have an automatic right to return to the UK.

    "We must put the safety and the security of our country first and I will not hesitate to act to protect it."

    Mr Javid insisted the government had to make "tough decisions" to keep the UK safe, adding: "There must be consequences for those that back terror."

    Shamima Begum tells Sky News that people should feel 'sympathy' towards her and that she did not encourage others to come to Syria.

    With around 40% of the 900 people who travelled from the UK to Syria and Iraq having now returned, Mr Javid said those who have come back had all been investigated and the majority pose no or a low security risk.

    A similar number - including Shamima Begum, who travelled to Syria as a schoolgirl in 2015 - remain in the region, with Mr Javid telling MPs: "Those who stayed include some of the most dangerous, including many who supported terrorism.

    "Not least those who chose to fight or to raise families in the so-called caliphate.

    "They turned their back on this country to support a group that butchered and beheaded innocent civilians, including British citizens.

    "That tied the arms of homosexuals and threw them off the top of buildings, and that raped countless young girls, boys and women."

    Mr Javid stressed the removal of British citizenship "is only used in extreme circumstances, where conducive to the public good".

    Labour's shadow home secretary Diane Abbott suggested Mr Javid was in breach of the 1948 United Nations' Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that "no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality".

    On the case of Shamima Begum, Ms Abbott said: "The home secretary knows the Home Office has lost two cases where they attempted to strip people of their nationality on this basis of Bangladeshi nationality by descent.

    "They lost. Why is he going forward with the same strategy now?"

    Mr Javid replied: "It would be just wrong to take one particular case that may have been in the courts and to apply that all other potential cases that follow that."

    He suggested government lawyers had taken into account previous court rulings before providing advice on Shamima Begum's case.

    Mr Javid also stressed it is "incredibly important that all governments abide" by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and that decisions to deprive British citizenship are "anything but arbitrary".

    Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Sir Ed Davey, who asked the urgent question of Mr Javid, said: "Surely a British citizen, born in Britain, is a British responsibility?"

    On Twitter, Sir Ed later accused Mr Javid of "pandering to the right wing press", adding: "I am convinced his legal case will be defeated."

    https://news.sky.com/story/is-teen-s...javid-11642889


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    Leaving out her behaviour of showing no remorse or regret for a second, are they stripping her of citizenship based on the fact that she could be eligible for citizenship elsewhere? Don't they have to wait for her to get the citizenship of another country before stripping her of citizenship? If Bangladesh refuses to give her citizenship, either UK would be forced to make her a citizen again or she'd be made stateless.

  44. #124
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    Bangladesh has effectively told the UK to "**** off".

    Lol. Shambolic decision by the Home Secretary. It's a complete contradiction of his own Strategy to Counter Terrorism.

    If anyone is interested, you can google CONTEST, and read the Counter Terrorism strategy. Read paragraph 172, and the example given in the document of how they would deal with such a situation.

  45. #125
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    Shamima Begum will not be allowed here, Bangladesh says

    Shamima Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there is "no question" of her being allowed into the country, Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said.

    The UK has stripped the 19-year-old - who fled London to join Islamic State - of her British citizenship.

    Such a move is only possible if an individual is eligible for citizenship elsewhere.

    It was thought Ms Begum had Bangladeshi citizenship through her mother.

    But the ministry of foreign affairs said the government was "deeply concerned" she had been "erroneously identified" as a Bangladeshi national.

    In a statement, it said Ms Begum had never applied for dual nationality with Bangladesh and had never visited the country.

    It added that the country had a "zero tolerance" approach to terrorism and violent extremism.

    Ms Begum was a schoolgirl when she left Bethnal Green in 2015, and was found in a Syrian refugee camp last week after reportedly leaving Baghuz - IS's last stronghold.

    She gave birth to a son at the weekend and now wants to return home.

    Ms Begum's mother is believed to be a Bangladeshi national, and lawyers have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law this means Ms Begum is automatically a citizen of the country as well.

    But Ms Begum told the BBC's Middle East correspondent Quentin Sommerville that she only had "one citizenship" and it was wrong for the UK to revoke it without speaking to her first.

    "I wasn't born in Bangladesh, I've never seen Bangladesh and I don't even speak Bengali properly, so how can they claim I have Bangladeshi citizenship," she said.

    'Extreme circumstances'
    While he said he would not comment on individual cases, Home Secretary Sajid Javid has suggested Ms Begum's baby could still be British.

    He told the Commons: "Children should not suffer. So, if a parent does lose their British citizenship, it does not affect the rights of their child."

    Mr Javid said the power to deprive a person of citizenship was only used "in extreme circumstances", for example, "when someone turns their back on the fundamental values and supports terror".

    But shadow home secretary Diane Abbott accused him of breaching the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which states that "no-one shall be arbitrarily deprived of their nationality".

    Ms Begum told the BBC: "I was hoping Britain would understand I made a mistake, a very big mistake, because I was young and naive."

    She said she changed her mind about IS after they imprisoned and tortured her Dutch husband - an armed jihadi.

    Escape was impossible, she claimed: "They'd kill you if you tried."

    The lawyer for Ms Begum's family, Tasnime Akunjee, said they were considering "all legal avenues" to contest the Home Office decision and that she had effectively been made stateless.

    Earlier, Ms Begum told ITV News that she found the Home Office's decision "heartbreaking", but she may try for Dutch citizenship via her husband.

    He is a Dutch convert to Islam and is thought to have surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters about two weeks ago.

    Islamic State has lost most of the territory it once controlled, but an estimated 300 militants are believed to be left in a 0.5 sq km area near Syria's border with Iraq.

    'Complex issue'
    Under the 1981 British Nationality Act , a person can be deprived of their citizenship if the home secretary is satisfied it would be "conducive to the public good" and they would not become stateless as a result.

    Ms Begum has the right to challenge the Home Office's decision either by tribunal or judicial review, said former independent reviewer of terrorism legislation Lord Carlile, but would have to prove the home secretary had acted disproportionately.

    He said it was a "complex issue" which "could run for a very long time through the courts", and Ms Begum could stay where she is "for maybe two years at least".

    Lord Carlile said her baby may be entitled to British, Dutch and Bangladeshi nationality.

    Lawyers have told the BBC that under Bangladesh law, a UK national born to a Bangladeshi parent is automatically a Bangladeshi citizen - a dual national - but the Bangladeshi authorities assert that's not the case for Ms Begum.

    Under this "blood line" law, Bangladeshi nationality and citizenship lapse when a person reaches the age of 21, unless they make active efforts to retain it.

    So, it is Ms Begum's age, 19, that is likely - in part - to have given Home Office lawyers and the home secretary reassurance there was a legal basis for stripping her of her UK citizenship.

    In 2017, the government lost an appeal case brought by two British citizens of Bangladeshi origin who were stripped of their citizenship when they were abroad.

    The Special Immigration Appeals Commission ruled that E3 and N3 had not tried to retain their citizenship before they reached the age of 21, and so it had automatically lapsed.

    That meant that the decision to strip them of their UK citizenship had rendered them stateless.

    Ms Begum's case is different. Her Bangladeshi citizenship, if established, would remain intact until she reaches 21, even if she has never visited the country or made active efforts to retain her citizenship.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-4731...mpression=true

  46. #126
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    She will have even worse luck at getting Dutch citizenship with the politicians present there

  47. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bewal Express View Post
    Obviously it will be tested in court and if its legal so much the better, and if it isnt it will be overturned. I am sick and tired of these losers defining Islam as blood thirsty barbarians and i have no sympathy. My concern is the silent Majority of Muslins whose life is made harder by the actions these criminals.
    My friend we are largely taking at cross purposes.
    I’m more concerned about the decision to strip a Uk born citizen of her nationality and turning absolving themselves of the responsibilities toward their citizens.
    Where do you draw the line and how many more people will decision affect in the future.

  48. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaDed View Post
    I feel you are too young, you are amazing at programming but feels like you think in binary terms as well.
    No one is saying she shouldn't be punished,but she is a British citizen and Britain should accept that and punish/reform her there.
    Am in my mid 20s so I guess you could say that. Though I really don't see how this can be a nuanced issue. If she felt any remorse or regret whatsoeer, then you can argue that this is a bit of a grey area. But that's not the case.

    You have to feel bad for her kid though.

  49. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachin136 View Post
    Am in my mid 20s so I guess you could say that. Though I really don't see how this can be a nuanced issue. If she felt any remorse or regret whatsoeer, then you can argue that this is a bit of a grey area. But that's not the case.

    You have to feel bad for her kid though.
    Murderers can feel no remorse. We don’t remove their statehood, we try them in court and attempt to rehabilitate them.

    Exactly what crime is this girl accused of?

  50. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericBrand View Post
    She will have even worse luck at getting Dutch citizenship with the politicians present there
    The main reason she will have no luck in getting Dutch citizenship is because she is British, born and bred. There are two things which this decision highlights.

    1. Britain still views citizens born to foreign parents differently to those born to indigenous Brits.

    2. The accusations that Sajid Javid is an Uncle Tom have been proven accurate.


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  51. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post

    2. The accusations that Sajid Javid is an Uncle Tom have been proven accurate.
    Yes, playing to the xenophobic press and crowd.

  52. #132
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    IS bride Shamima Begum: I am willing to change

    Islamic State bride Shamima Begum has told Sky News she is "willing to change" as she asked for "mercy" from politicians after being stripped of her UK citizenship.

    The 19-year-old - who wants to return to the UK from Syria - said her newborn son is unwell and she will not allow him to return to Britain alone.

    "I am struggling to get my supplies in right now," she told Sky correspondent John Sparks.

    "I don't have a card because they lost my card, so I have to run around to take care of my son now, when I am sick. I am not getting my stuff."

    Asked if she had anything to say to British politicians, Shamima Begum said: "I would like them to re-evaluate my case with a bit more mercy in their heart, you know."

    Asked if she can change or be rehabilitated, she replied: "I am willing to change."

    Home Secretary Sajid Javid said he would revoke her British citizenship - something he would legally be able to do if she has joint citizenship with another country.

    https://news.sky.com/story/is-bride-...hange-11644091


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    Well thank goodness some of you arenít employed by the government to look after our national security.

    Personally, I support the decision not to let this treasonous sociopathic woman back into Britain.

    Have all of her sympathisers watched those interviews? She is a frightening person. She speaks in a shockingly deadpan manner and has the eyes of a corpse. She expresses no regret or shame for the paths she has followed whatsoever.

    She is on record stating that the attacks on mothers and children at Manchester Arena were justified. She is clearly and comprehensively radicalised and presents a genuine security threat to Britain.

    Involving a child to generate sympathy (and sorry but where is the proof that she has had 2 other now deceased children? At age 19?) could quite conceivably be an ISIS ploy to get her back in play amongst innocent people in the West, and ready her to support an attack or even launch one herself.

    We have already allowed enough suicide bombers to freely walk our streets and kill scores of our citizens - let us not take any further unnecessary risks with the lives of ordinary people.

    Overall itís a great call to cut ties. This does not make Sajid Javid an Uncle Tom at all - it makes him a strong Home Secretary.

    Finally the British government is taking tough steps to protect its citizens from harm. That is ultimately the primary function of the Home Office.

    Happy to take the unpopular view here. I feel like my family is safer tonight with terrorists like Begum being kept away from our country.

  54. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Well thank goodness some of you aren’t employed by the government to look after our national security.

    Personally, I support the decision not to let this treasonous sociopathic woman back into Britain.

    Have all of her sympathisers watched those interviews? She is a frightening person. She speaks in a shockingly deadpan manner and has the eyes of a corpse. She expresses no regret or shame for the paths she has followed whatsoever.
    agreed. all british murderers and peadeophiles should be stripped of their citizenship.

  55. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Well thank goodness some of you arenít employed by the government to look after our national security.

    Personally, I support the decision not to let this treasonous sociopathic woman back into Britain.

    Have all of her sympathisers watched those interviews? She is a frightening person. She speaks in a shockingly deadpan manner and has the eyes of a corpse. She expresses no regret or shame for the paths she has followed whatsoever.

    She is on record stating that the attacks on mothers and children at Manchester Arena were justified. She is clearly and comprehensively radicalised and presents a genuine security threat to Britain.

    Involving a child to generate sympathy (and sorry but where is the proof that she has had 2 other now deceased children? At age 19?) could quite conceivably be an ISIS ploy to get her back in play amongst innocent people in the West, and ready her to support an attack or even launch one herself.

    We have already allowed enough suicide bombers to freely walk our streets and kill scores of our citizens - let us not take any further unnecessary risks with the lives of ordinary people.

    Overall itís a great call to cut ties. This does not make Sajid Javid an Uncle Tom at all - it makes him a strong Home Secretary.

    Finally the British government is taking tough steps to protect its citizens from harm. That is ultimately the primary function of the Home Office.

    Happy to take the unpopular view here. I feel like my family is safer tonight with terrorists like Begum being kept away from our country.
    Well, it's a good thing you don't know how many foreign murderers, rapists and child abusers there are currently on the streets of the UK. They've served their time in jail, now what if their home country revokes their citizenship and leaves them stranded in the UK?

    You're more at threat from the people in the country around you, and you don't even know it. Ignorance is bliss.

    A strong Home Secretary would have taken responsibility for a British terrorist.

    It's a bit of a shame if some **** kids get killed by terrorists, but as long as it's not in the UK, right?

    People are more scared of a 19 year old woman than the 400 other ISIS fighters that have come back already.

    I feel less safer tonight knowing people like you are happy to watch our rights being scrapped in front of us.

    My citizenship is worth more than the populist decision of a politician without any judicial or reviewable process.

  56. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Incidentally, I don't accept that she was groomed, so no sympathy with her on that score, she's not a kid any more and seems to show little regret for her decision. My only issue is with the stripping of nationality because it has applied because she has foreign parents. That's a slippery slope and means those of us who have been born and brought up here are judged differently from our white compatriots due purely to our heritage.
    This is not a racial decision. She was not stripped of her nationality because she has Asian parents.

    She was stripped of her nationality because she ran away to the Middle East, became radicalised and pledged her allegiance to ISIS.

    So as long as people donít go off and join ISIS, they can be safe in the knowledge that they will not be ďjudged differently from their white compatriotsĒ. (In terms of the British contribution to its ranks, ISIS has had White British as well as British Asian members by the way.)

  57. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    This is not a racial decision. She was not stripped of her nationality because she has Asian parents.

    She was stripped of her nationality because she ran away to the Middle East, became radicalised and pledged her allegiance to ISIS.

    So as long as people don’t go off and join ISIS, they can be safe in the knowledge that they will not be “judged differently from their white compatriots”. (In terms of the British contribution to its ranks, ISIS has had White British as well as British Asian members by the way.)
    Do you think white British ISIS members would be stripped of their nationality? How would the reasoning for that work exactly?


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  58. #138
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    Shamima Begum has right to return to UK - Jeremy Corbyn

    Shamima Begum, who left the UK to join the Islamic State group in Syria aged 15, has a "right to return to Britain", Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has said.
    Ms Begum has had her UK citizenship revoked by Home Secretary Sajid Javid - a move Mr Corbyn said was "extreme".
    Mr Corbyn told ITV News the 19-year-old should return to the UK in order to face questioning.

    British nationals can only have their citizenship revoked if they are eligible for citizenship elsewhere.

    It is thought Ms Begum could be a Bangladeshi citizen because she was born to a mother believed to be Bangladeshi.
    However, Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said Ms Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and there was "no question" of her being allowed into the country.

    Mr Corbyn, who is currently in Brussels to discuss his Brexit proposals, said: "She obviously has, in my view, a right to return to Britain.

    "On that return she must obviously face a lot of questions about everything she has done and at that point any action may or may not be taken.

    "But I think the idea of stripping somebody of their citizenship when they were born in Britain is a very extreme manoeuvre indeed.
    "Indeed, I questioned the right of the home secretary to have these powers when the original law was brought in by Theresa May when she was home secretary."

    Mr Javid has defended the move, which followed a debate over whether the teenager should be able to return to the UK after she was found in a Syrian refugee camp.
    Ms Begum, who left east London in 2015, said she never sought to be an IS "poster girl" and now simply wished to raise her child quietly in the UK.

    The home secretary said he would not leave an individual stateless - which is illegal under international law - but the Begum family's lawyer Tasnime Akunjee said he was considering whether she has been left stateless as he prepares an appeal.

    "Given Sajid Javid has confirmed the child is British we want to know what practical steps can be taken in these circumstances," Mr Akunjee said.

    Ms Begum's parents would be happy to take the boy, he added, but it is not yet known whether she would allow her baby to travel without her.

    Mr Javid previously suggested Ms Begum's baby could still be British, even though her citizenship had been revoked.

    He told the Commons: "Children should not suffer. So, if a parent does lose their British citizenship, it does not affect the rights of their child."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47319763

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaribo View Post
    Well, it's a good thing you don't know how many foreign murderers, rapists and child abusers there are currently on the streets of the UK. They've served their time in jail, now what if their home country revokes their citizenship and leaves them stranded in the UK?

    You're more at threat from the people in the country around you, and you don't even know it. Ignorance is bliss.

    A strong Home Secretary would have taken responsibility for a British terrorist.

    It's a bit of a shame if some **** kids get killed by terrorists, but as long as it's not in the UK, right?

    People are more scared of a 19 year old woman than the 400 other ISIS fighters that have come back already.

    I feel less safer tonight knowing people like you are happy to watch our rights being scrapped in front of us.

    My citizenship is worth more than the populist decision of a politician without any judicial or reviewable process.
    What do you mean ďour rightsĒ, ďmy citizenshipĒ, as if these are under any threat.

    Based on some intelligence that we know, and probably much intelligence that we donít know but the Home Secretary does, a member of ISIS who lives abroad has had their citizenship revoked so they cannot re-enter our country. That is what has happened.

    Youíre not a member of ISIS, Iím not a member of ISIS. Most people are not members of ISIS.

    What do decent law-abiding people have to be concerned about on the back of this decision? Nothing.

  60. #140
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    A lot of your citizenship is conditional.....if you have an immigrant parent the sword having your citizenship hangs over you. Growing many of the older ones would have heard they can kick you out etc and now we have seen it

  61. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    What do you mean “our rights”, “my citizenship”, as if these are under any threat.

    Based on some intelligence that we know, and probably much intelligence that we don’t know but the Home Secretary does, a member of ISIS who lives abroad has had their citizenship revoked so they cannot re-enter our country. That is what has happened.

    You’re not a member of ISIS, I’m not a member of ISIS. Most people are not members of ISIS.

    What do decent law-abiding people have to be concerned about on the back of this decision? Nothing.
    Look I’m still not sure whether this girl should be allowed back but The idea of stripping her citizenship does not sit well with me... however this bit about “the Home Secretary having intelligence information” in this girl that we are not aware of is just complete and utter ** that they spout out to mask a pathetic decision....

    Secrete intelligence on a 19 year old mother..... honestly mate don’t buy into that rubbish.

  62. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    What do you mean “our rights”, “my citizenship”, as if these are under any threat.

    Based on some intelligence that we know, and probably much intelligence that we don’t know but the Home Secretary does, a member of ISIS who lives abroad has had their citizenship revoked so they cannot re-enter our country. That is what has happened.

    You’re not a member of ISIS, I’m not a member of ISIS. Most people are not members of ISIS.

    What do decent law-abiding people have to be concerned about on the back of this decision? Nothing.
    She might live abroad, but the governing body in Syria doesn't accept she is a Syrian, they quite rightly say she is British. I have no problem with bombing her to pieces over there like we have with her fellow Brits who went there, but I do have an issue with revoking citizenship because she had foreign parents.

    The line about "what do law abiding citizens have to fear by this decision is neither here nor there. She's a British subject and should be treated as one regardless of her ethnic lineage.


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    She's an idiot for believing the propaganda, no way she'll be allowed back in. Her parents are idiots as well for not stopping her leaving in the first place.

  64. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    Well thank goodness some of you aren’t employed by the government to look after our national security.

    Personally, I support the decision not to let this treasonous sociopathic woman back into Britain.

    Have all of her sympathisers watched those interviews? She is a frightening person. She speaks in a shockingly deadpan manner and has the eyes of a corpse. She expresses no regret or shame for the paths she has followed whatsoever.

    She is on record stating that the attacks on mothers and children at Manchester Arena were justified. She is clearly and comprehensively radicalised and presents a genuine security threat to Britain.

    Involving a child to generate sympathy (and sorry but where is the proof that she has had 2 other now deceased children? At age 19?) could quite conceivably be an ISIS ploy to get her back in play amongst innocent people in the West, and ready her to support an attack or even launch one herself.

    We have already allowed enough suicide bombers to freely walk our streets and kill scores of our citizens - let us not take any further unnecessary risks with the lives of ordinary people.

    Overall it’s a great call to cut ties. This does not make Sajid Javid an Uncle Tom at all - it makes him a strong Home Secretary.

    Finally the British government is taking tough steps to protect its citizens from harm. That is ultimately the primary function of the Home Office.

    Happy to take the unpopular view here. I feel like my family is safer tonight with terrorists like Begum being kept away from our country.
    Im sorry James, I have a lot of respect for you as a poster but this post made giggle.

    Hundreds of grown strong men have been let back in, so I dont see what's so frightening about this young girl?

    Yes she is strange, a bit dumb and holds some extremist views. I have little sympathy her.

    Sajid Javid clearly has shown what a complete Uncle Tom he is. The guy has just broken the law and will be humilated when her cases go to the higher courts. I feel he knew he was breaking the law but wanted to get even more applauds from the right wing Tory MP's for a future seat at 10 Downing Street.

    This decision puts all British citizens at risk in the future. The patriot act in USA was supposed to be only for terrorists but has mainly been used against American citizens for other reasons, including spying and data given to companies for profit. The same will happen here in the future if there is a state of anarchy, the government can then claim any organistaion is a threat and revoke anyones citizenship.

    The best way for the British government to keep it's people safe is firstly not to enter others lands illegally and butcher millions of people. ISIS wouldn't exist if Bliar and Bush did not go on a bloody crusade. Let's keep this important fact in mind.


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  65. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salma_T View Post
    A lot of your citizenship is conditional.....if you have an immigrant parent the sword having your citizenship hangs over you. Growing many of the older ones would have heard they can kick you out etc and now we have seen it
    Only if you have dual citizenship. Egg head Sajid has broken the law here.


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  66. #146
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    'Jihadi Jack' interview: Homesick Jack Letts tells ITV News he wants to return from Syria but 'no one cares' about him
    https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-22/...vF66kPXQX3Ane4

    Wonder why this chap isn't making news headlines? Why hasn't the home sec made any official comments in parliament and why hasn't his citizenship not taken away?


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  67. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    Only if you have dual citizenship. Egg head Sajid has broken the law here.
    We had the same case in Australia where a Isis fighter was stripped of his citizenship as he had Fijian citizenship through his father but they like Bangldesh said no....there are far too many ministers who are using these cases to further their own careers

  68. #148
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    Sajid Javid shoots ... straight into his own foot on Isis bride Shamima Begum

    sarah baxter

    The home secretary has caught the public mood by creating two-tier citizenship

    To judge by the response to our poll on whether teenagers who left Britain to join Isis should be allowed to return, Sajid Javid was right to take a hard line against Shamima Begum. A whopping 85% of you said “No”. I dare say the home secretary feels vindicated over revoking the jihadi bride’s passport. “The Saj” has captured the public mood.

    In fairness, the Saj insists he has never referred to himself in this way, although two mischievous cabinet sources — probably rivals for the Tory crown — claim that he did: “He uses phrases like . . . ‘The Saj will sort this out.’ It’s bizarre — I think he’s losing the plot.” It’s a great nickname, though, for a wonkish former banker who aspires to be prime minister, suggestive of a can-do pragmatist who will take the tough decisions where others fear to tread.

    Before 2018 Javid’s career had gone wobbly. Theresa May was not a fan and he was handed one of the great offices of state only after a kerfuffle over the Windrush generation of Caribbean immigrants, who had been refused the right to remain in Britain after living here for decades. The Saj duly sorted it. “It could have been my mum, my brother, my uncle or even me,” he said sympathetically.

    Next, the Saj deftly turned on the grooming gangs in places like Huddersfield and Rochdale (where he was born). “These sick Asian paedophiles are finally getting justice,” he said. He spoke out in favour of immigration — “It’s made our country stronger in so many ways” — but added: “Any normal person looking at the . . . gangs that abuse children would have noticed that a vast majority are from a Pakistani heritage and we cannot ignore that.”

    Finally, he nearly came a cropper at Christmas on a safari holiday while migrants were crossing the Channel on flimsy boats, but he rushed home vowing to thwart their asylum claims. That issue may return to bite him, but the advantage of having a home secretary of Muslim and Pakistani heritage was plain to see.

    Try as he might to triangulate, though, the job has put the Saj on the spot. His difficulty was foretold in Kamila Shamsie’s tremendous novel Home Fire, published the year before his appointment. In the book a Muslim home secretary of Pakistani heritage has to decide whether the body of a terrorist (who may have been fleeing Isis) can be returned to Britain for burial.

    The home secretary doesn’t hesitate. “As you know,” he tells a political correspondent, “the day I assumed office I revoked the citizenship of all dual nationals who have left Britain to join our enemies. My predecessor only used these powers selectively which . . . was a mistake.” Without giving the story away, I can say the plot hinges on this decision.

    The French have a phrase for this behaviour: plus royaliste que le roi (more royalist than the king). As home secretary, responsible for immigration and anti-terrorism, Javid is under incessant pressure to prove that his first loyalty is to the UK. It’s grossly unfair but it is a challenge he has accepted. A friend from a similar background tells me: “If he wants to be prime minister there’s very little he can do. If there’s even a whiff that he is sympathetic to extremism, his chances are shot.”

    Shamima Begum, stuck aged 19 in a Syrian refugee camp with a week-old baby, knows nothing of this but it has assuredly had a huge effect on her future. It is possible that any Conservative home secretary with a shrewd eye on public opinion would have barred her way home, but I wonder. As another writer, The Secret Barrister, has pointed out, the Home Office’s own 2018 strategy on anti-terrorism, published with an introduction by Javid, recommends that Isis brides are given a “managed” return.

    By way of illustration, it imagines the case of a young woman (remarkably like Begum) who has fled “Daesh-held territory with a newborn baby”. If a crime has been committed, she can be charged back home. If not, she will be required to report regularly to police, to attend deradicalisation sessions and to be “assisted in reintegrating into society”. The welfare of her child will be monitored.

    These seem sensible provisions. For all Begum’s grotesque sense of entitlement and misplaced appeal for sympathy, she was born and raised here. It’s not just that Bangladesh, the land of her parents’ birth, has refused to accept her. The real problem with stripping her of British nationality — a move that may yet be rejected by the courts — is its impact on all dual-heritage citizens. And that includes the home secretary himself.

    Again, Shamsie was ahead of the curve, writing last year that people who were British by birth were being made “unBritish”. Unbeknown to them, those with parents of another nationality could be legally deprived of citizenship, even though they were not immigrants. Their status was no longer a right but a revokable privilege, “contingent” on their good behaviour.

    It’s not enough to tell people they need not worry as long as they obey the law. It still makes them unequal to other citizens. I myself — with an American mother — could be affected. So could my children, who have dual nationality. You can be sure, though, that I am a lot less worried about being deported than people from ethnic minorities.


    Effectively, we now have two-tier citizenship in this country. To paraphrase Javid, “It could be his mum, his brother, his uncle or even him.” Even the Saj is no longer here by right, but by the government’s leave. That’s a high price to pay for popularity.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...egum-80dn9cnxw
    Excellent piece by Sarah Baxter which tackles the thorny issue of revoking citizenship of born Brits due to their ethnic heritage.


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  69. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt. Rishwat View Post
    Excellent piece by Sarah Baxter which tackles the thorny issue of revoking citizenship of born Brits due to their ethnic heritage.
    The home sec is missing a trick, should change his name to Sam Jarrad. No matter how much of a coconut he is and how desperate he is to feel middle class white, his Asian name will be a problem for some Tory voters.

    Egghead has not taken away the citizenship of 'Jihadi' Jack, any ideas why?


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    Lot of comments on my FB speaking about the 'race' aspect of this...ie its cos she's a brown girl that her citizenship is in danger...

    Is there any evidence of any white ISIS members who have had their citizenship questioned?...

    Personally I saw no remorse from the girl...she said she liked her time there up until the end and it had nothing to do with IS ideology but simply the fact that IS lost...

    I have no problem with her citizenship being stripped...if she was such a good mother then maybe she should have thought twice about continuing to have kids even after her first two died...shes an adult now...shes shown no remorse...she chose citizenship somewhere else and that too somewhere which has been at war with Britain...

  71. #151
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    I feel sorry for her. She was a kid when she made that poor choice, and for me she is mentally still a kid and needs help and support.

    Its time Great Britain shows the world again why it is Great. She deserves another chance.

    Humans make mistakes. For me she has already sufferred enough.

  72. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingKhanWC View Post
    The home sec is missing a trick, should change his name to Sam Jarrad. No matter how much of a coconut he is and how desperate he is to feel middle class white, his Asian name will be a problem for some Tory voters.

    Egghead has not taken away the citizenship of 'Jihadi' Jack, any ideas why?
    To be fair, technically the could do the same for Jihadi Jack as well, he has a Canadian parent I believe? But again, that doesn't make HIM Canadian, and there's no way Canada would accept him as such. Also with him being white, he probably doesn't register for some people as qualifying for revoking of citizenship. I have a feeling that Saj will leave Jack on the backburner and see if the Begum case can get past the legal challenges first.


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  73. #153
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    Shamima Begum: 'We should live in Holland' says IS husband

    The Dutch husband of Shamima Begum, who joined the Islamic State group in Syria in 2015 aged 15, has said he wants her to return to the Netherlands with him.

    Yago Riedijk and Ms Begum married days after she arrived inside IS territory.

    Speaking to the BBC, he admitted fighting for the group but says he now wants to return home with his wife and their newborn son.

    Mr Riedijk, 27, is being held in a Kurdish detention centre in north-eastern Syria.

    He faces a six-year jail term for joining a terror organisation if he returns to the Netherlands.

    In an interview with the BBC's Middle East correspondent, Quentin Sommerville, Mr Riedijk said he rejected IS and had tried to leave the group.

    He told our correspondent that he was imprisoned in Raqqa and tortured after the extremists accused him of being a Dutch spy.

    Ms Begum, now aged 19, escaped with her IS fighter husband from the town of Baghouz, the group's last territory in eastern Syria, as the caliphate crumbled.

    Mr Riedijk surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters, and Ms Begum and their newborn son, Jarrah, ended up among 39,000 people in the al-Hawl refugee camp in northern Syria.

    She has now reportedly gone elsewhere.

    Mr Riedijk also told the BBC he saw nothing wrong with marrying Ms Begum - 15 at the time, while he was 23 - because it was "her choice".

    Describing how he met the schoolgirl from east London in the women's centre in Raqqa, he said he was initially not interested because she was too young.

    He said: "To be honest, when my friend came and said there was a girl who was interested in marriage, I wasn't that interested because of her age, but I accepted the offer anyway."

    He added that she had seemed to be "in a good state of mind".

    Mr Riedijk, from Arnhem in the Netherlands, insisted: "It was her own choice. She asked to look for a partner for her, and I was invited."

    He conceded "she was very young, maybe it would have been better for her to wait a bit", before adding: "But she didn't, she chose to get married and I chose to marry her."

    The UK has revoked Ms Begum's citizenship on the grounds that she is eligible for citizenship of Bangladesh through her mother, who is a Bangladeshi citizen.

    But Bangladesh's ministry of foreign affairs has said Ms Begum is not a Bangladeshi citizen and that she will not be allowed into the country.

    And, last month, Ms Begum's family told the home secretary they were going to challenge his decision to revoke her UK citizenship.

    In the letter to Sajid Javid, seen by the BBC, they said they could not "simply abandon her" and asked for assistance in bringing her newborn baby to the UK.

    Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, meanwhile, said Ms Begum had a "right to return to Britain" - and called the decision to revoke her citizenship "extreme".

    Although Mr Riedijk is on a terrorism watch list, his Dutch citizenship has not been revoked.

    Mr Riedijk was born and raised in Dutch suburbia but abandoned his life in 2014 to join IS.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47431249


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  75. #155
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    Shamima Begum: IS teenager's baby son has died, SDF confirms

    The baby son of Shamima Begum - who fled London to join the Islamic State group - has died, a Syrian Democratic Forces spokesman has said.

    The group, which runs the camp where the teenager has been living, confirmed the death on Friday.

    A paramedic has told the BBC the baby, who was less than three weeks old, had a lung infection and died on Thursday.

    Ms Begum, who left the UK in 2015, was found in a Syrian refugee camp in mid-February.

    She wanted to return to Britain but was stripped of her citizenship.

    The SDF - a US-backed, anti-IS rebel group that controls the camp where Ms Begum is living - confirmed the death on Friday. Its press officer had said earlier that the baby was alive.

    Meanwhile, the paramedic, working for the Kurdish Red Crescent in and around the camp, said the baby had been suffering from breathing difficulties.

    He was taken to a doctor on Thursday morning before being transferred to hospital, along with his mother, but died at 13:30 local time that day, the medical worker added.

    The paramedic said both Ms Begum and her baby were taken back to the camp for burial.

    'Nothing but sympathy'
    Speaking to the BBC before it was confirmed whether the baby had died, Home Secretary Sajid Javid said: "Obviously I don't know whether that news is true or not but what I will say, sadly there are probably many children, obviously perfectly innocent, who have been born in this war zone."

    He added: "I have nothing but sympathy for the children that have been dragged into this. This is a reminder of why it is so, so dangerous for anyone to be in this war zone."

    Ms Begum, 19, gave birth to her son last month, shortly after being tracked down by a journalist in a Syrian refugee camp. She had reportedly left Baghuz - IS's last stronghold.

    Ms Begum said she had previously lost two other children and named her newborn son Jarrah after her firstborn.

    She said she wanted to return to the UK, but the Home Office stripped her of her British citizenship.

    As her child was born before she was deprived of UK citizenship, the baby would still be considered British.

    Earlier on Friday, the lawyer representing the family of Ms Begum, Tasnime Akunjee, said he had "strong but unconfirmed reports" that the baby had died. He later also confirmed the death.

    In an interview with the BBC after the birth of Jarrah, Ms Begum said she did not regret travelling to Syria - although she added that she did not agree with everything the IS group had done.

    She also said that she never sought to be an IS "poster girl" and simply wished to raise her child quietly in the UK.

    Mr Javid previously said that the revocation of Ms Begum's citizenship would not apply to her son, saying: "Children should not suffer, so if a parent does lose their British citizenship it does not affect the rights of their child."

    After Ms Begum was stripped of her citizenship, her family wrote to the home secretary to say they planned to challenge the decision and asked for assistance to bring her baby to the UK.

    Earlier this week, Mr Akunjee tweeted a screenshot of the reply that they had received from the Home Office.

    It told them that the possibility of bringing the baby to the UK was a matter for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and that they would need permission from Ms Begum.

    The FCO is obliged to consider requests for consular assistance, the letter added.

    Ms Begum was a schoolgirl when she left Bethnal Green in east London in 2015. She married an IS fighter, a Dutch man called Yago Riedijk.

    https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/stat...849410049?s=19

  76. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rana View Post

    So this terrorist pedophile is eligible to give a conduct certificate to his terrorist wife who has no remorse. The death of the innocent baby is so unfortunate and this should end UK's ties with her.

  77. #157
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    Congratulations Shamima that's the third child that's died under your "care".

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    Begum is responsible for her sonís death and no one else. Itís a disgrace that some people are now blaming Sajid Javid for this.


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    Senior Muslim leader: Muslim country should adopt IS bride Shamima Begum

    A top Muslim leader says the IS bride is "not practising Islam" but should be shown sympathy and adopted by a Muslim country.

    One of the world's top Muslim leaders has called on Muslim countries to "adopt" Islamic State bride Shamima Begum following the cancellation of her British citizenship.

    His Holiness Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad, the Caliph of the Ahmadiyya Muslim community, said: "She claims herself to be Muslim so then a Muslim country should show sympathy to her.

    "If the British government has stripped her of her nationality, then another country should adopt her, any Muslim country."

    He also put pressure on Bangladesh, who have so far refused to grant the 19-year-old a home, saying: "Since her parents were from Bangladesh, the first duty is of Bangladesh to take her as a national."

    Shamima Begum went to Syria to join Islamic State as a 15-year-old school girl and married a Dutch fighter shortly after her arrival.

    Home Secretary Sajid Javid stripped her of her British citizenship, leaving her stateless pending any appeal, and living in a refugee camp in Syria.

    Her infant son, named Jarrah, died on Friday - two days after being taken to hospital with breathing difficulties.

    The leader said it was only right for her to face trial, should she be allowed to return to the UK.

    He told Sky News: "When this issue started I said at the time I thought she should be allowed to come to this country [the UK] for the sake of the child and the woman should face trial.

    "Unfortunately it is said the child has expired now and it is up to the government now since they have cancelled the passport and citizenship."

    He refused to cast blame on Mr Javid, who has been accused of not doing enough to prevent the death of the infant.

    He said: "I don't want to blame anyone - what was her fate has happened. It is up to the fate of God."

    Asked by Sky News whether Shamima Begum is a poor reflection on Muslims, he said: "Islam never says you should commit such brutalities which is being done by Daesh... if she says she is Muslim then she is - but she is not practising Islam."

    The Muslim leader made the comments ahead of his keynote speech at the International Peace Symposium at south London's Baitul Futuh Mosque, one of Europe's biggest mosques.

    Human rights lawyer and spokesperson for the Ahmadiyya UK Muslim community Khalil Yousuf told Sky News that the government should have acted with more compassion.

    He said: "The reality is the child was a British citizen.

    "Mr Javid's decision appears to be a populist decision.

    "It is tragic that another innocent child has lost its life and every humane person will feel sympathy for that child.

    "Our position has always been that if Shamima Begum has broken laws, she should be brought before the courts here.

    "Because she had a child, the British government should have been more humanitarian in their approach… we are a democratic country with laws and regulations."

    Mr Javid was widely criticised by politicians, charity representatives and others on Saturday.

    Speaking to Sky News, Dal Babu, a friend of Shamima Begum's family and former chief superintendent with the Metropolitan Police, said: "The death is a tragic thing and I think it's totally avoidable."

    "We failed Shamima in making sure we were able to safeguard her from the vile organisation of Islamic State and I don't think anybody I know supports Islamic State so for her to support that organisation, go out there, leave a safe country shows how she was brainwashed," he added.

    "So we've failed her and now we've failed the child."

    Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott joined the criticism, saying: "The tragic death of Shamima Begum's baby, Jarrah, is a stain on the conscience of this government… the home secretary failed this British child and he has a lot to answer for."

    However, Conservative MP Andrea Leadsom, who is leader of the House of Commons, defended her colleague, saying: "It is absolutely tragic that a baby has died and of course I understand this is a really terrible problem.

    "But on the other hand, the job of the home secretary is to protect all the people in the United Kingdom.

    "He will have had advice on what was the right thing to do and I totally support his decision."

    Following news of Jarrah's death, a UK government spokesman said: "The death of any child is tragic and deeply distressing for the family.

    "The Foreign and Commonwealth Office has consistently advised against travel to Syria since April 2011.

    "The government will continue to do whatever we can to prevent people from being drawn into terrorism and travelling to dangerous conflict zones."

    https://news.sky.com/story/senior-mu...begum-11660361

  80. #160
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    She is just a kid, I would give her a second chance...


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