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  1. #1
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    Will Punjab ever get out of the shackles of PML-N?

    Sharifs in particular in Punjab

    In 2018 they are expected to be heavy favourites to win in Punjab again. By the end of that term the province will have been under 15 years of uninterrupted PML-N rule. They had won by huge margins in 1997 and before that too. In 2002 Sharifs were not leading the campaign and well an election under a military dictator is not something you should base anything off. So if you just take elections and take out military time then you are looking at decades of Sharifs ruling their Kingdon of Punjab where to be frank they enjoy support.

    Sindh is a similar story with PPP. But unlike Punjab, factors such as a new census and thus redistribution of constituencies will ensure that the PPP time will end. Also unlike Punjab, no party really has ever made any attempt to even bother to make ground in Sindh. As Imran Khan said in the Karachi by election, Punjab wins you the right to rule the country so seats in Karachi or Sindh aren't top priority. So I tend to be more hopeful about Sindh if attempts are made to do grassroots work there. But general point remains.

    Will we ever see a time where Sharifs will not be ruling Punjab and the Takhta-e-Lahore will change hands?


    #MPGA

  2. #2
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    People have chosen them, must be doing something right in Lahore.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    People have chosen them, must be doing something right in Lahore.
    what about the rest of Punjab?


    Watching Dravid is worse than watching 2 coats of paint dry

  4. #4
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    As the Bye election will show today, Sadly no. People have such low expectations of the govt that a couple of bus routes and a few roads are seen as a great success story.

  5. #5
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    Not sure about whole Punjab getting out of their hands but i can tell you the ground realities of my District Attock that is really different from rest of Punjab it's the last district of Punjab and comes under Potohar on KP border.

    I don't see PMLN winning even 1 NA seat in next elections from my District. PPP is done and dusted here years ago no chance for them and PMLN is also on same path like PPP here. Only PTI and Independents are getting strong by every day here (there are 3 NA and 6 PP seats in my district Attock). 1 NA seat was won by independent and 2 by PMLN but credit of one PMLN NA seat goes to marhoom Shuja Khanzada MPA personal reputation in area which helped PMLN MNA win by a margin of 3000.

    Let me summarize those 3 NA seats in few words

    NA-57, PMLN 59,000, PTI 56,000 (margin of only 3000 and recounting was going to happen but PMLN candidate got stay order)

    NA-58, Independent (Son of ex District Nazim Attock Maj Tahir who did a lot for this District in Mush era and that's far far more than any MNA and MPA did in 20 years)

    NA-59, PMLN 85,000, PTI 74,000 (PMLN candidate that won is one of the most corrupt and sherabi kababi he remains drunk most of the time if you go to meet him you will notice and people are tired of him and are going to throw him out he did almost no work in the constituency and don't remain in touch with the locals)

    There is a huge vote bank of PTI in this District and their candidates are good too so if they don't do any blunder they can easily win at least 2 NA seats from here while imo 1 seat may go to Independent candidate.

    As someone already mentioned in another thread that in Punjab PTI need to focus more on other parts of Punjab like Seraiki and Potohar because in central Punjab things are not going to change anytime soon.
    Last edited by Strike Rate; 11th October 2015 at 16:43.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  6. #6
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    No, Noonie mania is huge in Punjab. Just spoke to my relatives in Punjab, they've been been brainwashed with noonie propaganda too, i don't think this will ever end.

    Maryam Nawaz is def going to be the next PM if this domination continues.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    People have chosen them, must be doing something right in Lahore.
    I've heard it's turned into Paris

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    Not sure about whole Punjab getting out of their hands but i can tell you the ground realities of my District Attock that is really different from rest of Punjab it's the last district of Punjab and comes under Potohar on KP border.

    I don't see PMLN winning even 1 NA seat in next elections from my District. PPP is done and dusted here years ago no chance for them and PMLN is also on same path like PPP here. Only PTI and Independents are getting strong by every day here (there are 3 NA and 6 PP seats in my district Attock). 1 NA seat was won by independent and 2 by PMLN but credit of one PMLN NA seat goes to marhoom Shuja Khanzada MPA personal reputation in area which helped PMLN MNA win by a margin of 3000.

    Let me summarize those 3 NA seats in few words

    NA-57, PMLN 59,000, PTI 56,000 (margin of only 3000 and recounting was going to happen but PMLN candidate got stay order)

    NA-58, Independent (Son of ex District Nazim Attock Maj Tahir who did a lot for this District in Mush era and that's far far more than any MNA and MPA did in 20 years)

    NA-59, PMLN 85,000, PTI 74,000 (PMLN candidate that won is one of the most corrupt and sherabi kababi he remains drunk most of the time if you go to meet him you will notice and people are tired of him and are going to throw him out he did almost no work in the constituency and don't remain in touch with the locals)

    There is a huge vote bank of PTI in this District and their candidates are good too so if they don't do any blunder they can easily win at least 2 NA seats from here while imo 1 seat may go to Independent candidate.

    As someone already mentioned in another thread that in Punjab PTI need to focus more on other parts of Punjab like Seraiki and Potohar because in central Punjab things are not going to change anytime soon.
    Nice summary

    South Punjab obviously has some chance but central Punjab and northern Punjab makes bulk and these areas are definitely not going away from PMLn soon

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    Nice summary

    South Punjab obviously has some chance but central Punjab and northern Punjab makes bulk and these areas are definitely not going away from PMLn soon
    Yes in South Punjab PPP is still alive and with a little effort PTI can easily win their vote bank too to compete with PMLN.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  10. #10
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    This question should not be raised; people are free to chose whom they want and they have made their decision. If they were not content with PML-N and would have acknowledged PTI as a viable alternative, they would have acted accordingly.

    PTI should do better than give ticket to a land grabber and defrauder (who has cases against him in the SC and NAB), while shouting tabdeeli, just because he financed the dharna significantly. He wasn't allowed to contend in 2013 because Kaptaan was aware of his crimes.

    It is nearly impossible to outclass PML-N in Lahore, let alone with a criminal who belongs in the Central Jail Lahore.

  11. #11
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    They already are weakening. It won't happen by the next election but consistent work of 5-10 years should bear fruit. People in Punjab are looking for change. Like @Strike Rate said PTI should be targeting South and North Punjab before central Punjab.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    This question should not be raised; people are free to chose whom they want and they have made their decision. If they were not content with PML-N and would have acknowledged PTI as a viable alternative, they would have acted accordingly.

    PTI should do better than give ticket to a land grabber and defrauder (who has cases against him in the SC and NAB), while shouting tabdeeli, just because he financed the dharna significantly. He wasn't allowed to contend in 2013 because Kaptaan was aware of his crimes.

    It is nearly impossible to outclass PML-N in Lahore, let alone with a criminal who belongs in the Central Jail Lahore.
    Don't be so naive, you have to play dirty in politics to win an election and form a govt.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChachaCricket View Post
    They already are weakening. It won't happen by the next election but consistent work of 5-10 years should bear fruit. People in Punjab are looking for change. Like @Strike Rate said PTI should be targeting South and North Punjab before central Punjab.
    By then Khan will be old and God knows where, I wonder who will be the next Imran Khan.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deosai View Post
    I've heard it's turned into Paris

    People see metro bus, metro train, flyovers, interchanges, roads and ring road.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deosai View Post
    By then Khan will be old and God knows where, I wonder who will be the next Imran Khan.
    Asad Omar look like his best janasheen. But i have heard rumours about Asad Omar health and he is not very active in politics these days if you noticed. He even had to publish a video from home to counter those rumours recently.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deosai View Post
    Don't be so naive, you have to play dirty in politics to win an election and form a govt.
    The only one naive here is Imran, and this proves that all his empty slogans and cheap rhetorics are worth nothing when he has resorted to the same 'dirty politics'.

    About time he stops lying to the nation when he is failing PTI's manifesto himself. Criminals cannot and will not bring tabdeeli. Glad the people of Punjab can see through his scam.

    He needs a new narrative now; people are not buying this rigging business anymore.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    Asad Omar look like his best janasheen. But i have heard rumours about Asad Omar health and he is not very active in politics these days if you noticed. He even had to publish a video from home to counter those rumours recently.
    He's a good guy but lacks charisma that Imran Khan has.

    I think Hassan Nazi might be next in line, tho IK is against family poltics

  18. #18
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    Ayaz Sadiq winning in Kaptaan's home (Zaman Park) sums it up. A massive blow for PTI and the biggest surprise of the day in my view.

  19. #19
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    Imran Khan and PTI supporters just don't understand that not everyone is blind enough to support them. I heard Imran Khan lost again. That made my day.

  20. #20
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    Asad Omar certainly lacks the charisma of Kaptaan; haven't seen him use foul language and abuse his opponents.

    He is too dignified for this clown party.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Asad Omar certainly lacks the charisma of Kaptaan; haven't seen him use foul language and abuse his opponents.

    He is too dignified for this clown party.
    What I meant is that he doesn't have the stage presence that leaders are supposed to have, SMQ,ZAB,Obama are men that have that

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Ayaz Sadiq winning in Kaptaan's home (Zaman Park) sums it up. A massive blow for PTI and the biggest surprise of the day in my view.
    Not confirmed yet but some are reporting PTI won from Zaman Park and Aitchison polling station.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  23. #23
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    The_king How can you say he has lost - only 40% of votes have come through?????

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shah_1 View Post
    People see metro bus, metro train, flyovers, interchanges, roads and ring road.
    Farmers also want something, people also wish to be treated as humans. Before a motorway they want clean streets and sanitation. Then they need justice from courts and police, education in schools, treatment in hospitals.

    By the way ring road is Pervez Elahi's scheme.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  25. #25
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    Regarding OP, i think earlier than Sindh getting rid of PPP.

    N league will have to do a lot better to keep pti out of government but ppp is not afraid of its position in Sindh. Perhaps because Sindhis have other priorities.

    To be fair, Punjab first accepted a Sindhi in Bhutto and now they are recognizing a Pukhtoon.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Ayaz Sadiq winning in Kaptaan's home (Zaman Park) sums it up. A massive blow for PTI and the biggest surprise of the day in my view.
    Here we go Hamid mir also break the news that PMLN and Ayaz Sadiq also lost in his home polling station (Gerhi Shahu)

    Although both IK and Ayaz no more live in those areas. IK vote is in Isb


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  27. #27
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    Punjabis dont have much options.

    Imran khan is seen as a nutbag in most corners. PPP is a BIG NO NO esp after their corrupt rule in 2010s. So, PMLN is left. Also, PMLN has been doing some work too like Metro buses and now they are developing orange train as well.

    Also, they are applying the principle of most significant change (MSC) which i studied in a public administration course where governments try to show the most visual change which benefits the awam as well without any consideration of cost benefit. This does sounds bad but that is quite suitable for mentality of our awam who get happy after seeing motorway.

    Also, loadshedding has reduced a lot as compared to PPP rule which was absolutely awful ( have i said it enough?)

    Noon league might start working on grass root levels like for instance improving health and education which is totally awesome if they pull this off.

    Can easily see N-league winning the next election.

  28. #28
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    Real change would be when PTI wins majority in Sind because of the mentally slave awam found in Sindh who are imprisoned by their vadeeras.

    At least punjabis are free to vote for the most part.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamoon View Post
    Asad Omar certainly lacks the charisma of Kaptaan; haven't seen him use foul language and abuse his opponents.

    He is too dignified for this clown party.
    Asad Omar is a class act. I hope he replaces Khan as the leader of PTI. Khan has charisma but due to his support or former support of talibans; he is not in my favourable books. Although when the time comes i might vote for one of PTI or PMLN.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    Imran Khan and PTI supporters just don't understand that not everyone is blind enough to support them. I heard Imran Khan lost again. That made my day.
    I am seeing this pattern in you. You get happy on the losses of other people. Malik that day and now this. Dont. Please dont. Not a good habit. If its personal for you then yeah i cant argue.

  31. #31
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    Theres no denying that N league has been fortunate with the hand they have been dealt with as far as the global economy is concerned..

    The positive atmosphere you see these days is due to the improving global economy whereas PPP faced the biggest economic collapse worlwide since the 1920s and secondly the low oil prices which during PPP time were almost always above $100 post recovery from the crash.

    As far as policy and its implementation are concerned PML-N have been equally poor.

    Compared to PPP they have had a fairly loose noose around their necks too as far as judicial activism is concerned. I will admit that atleast in firs 2.5 years there hasnt been the loot mela of PPP times as far as corruption is concerned but there have been a couple high profile cases like Nandipur and it really won't be a surprise if we see a few more in the next couple years.

    The conditions of Pakistan are certainly better than PPP times but very little, if any, credit goes to PML-N's policies


    #MPGA

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    Yes! Nothing lasts forever!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11ShadyBrothers View Post
    I am seeing this pattern in you. You get happy on the losses of other people. Malik that day and now this. Dont. Please dont. Not a good habit. If its personal for you then yeah i cant argue.
    I don't like Imran Khan the politician so of course I'll be happy if he loses.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11ShadyBrothers View Post
    Real change would be when PTI wins majority in Sind because of the mentally slave awam found in Sindh who are imprisoned by their vadeeras.

    At least punjabis are free to vote for the most part.
    PTI or any other party has not made any attempt whatsoever to try to make a vote bank there.

    Even IK himself said that to become PM he needs Punjab only. NS knows that too. heck PML-N doesnt even bother to hold a single rally or support candidates there because they know that just keep Punjab and they are good to go.


    #MPGA

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    PTI or any other party has not made any attempt whatsoever to try to make a vote bank there.

    Even IK himself said that to become PM he needs Punjab only. NS knows that too
    But we both know that it is logically incorrect. If Imran wins half of punjab, wins in KPK and wins majority in Sind. He can form the government.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11ShadyBrothers View Post
    But we both know that it is logically incorrect. If Imran wins half of punjab, wins in KPK and wins majority in Sind. He can form the government.
    IK doesnt really think through what he says most of the time. *** he said this when trying to win an election in Karachi lol. Most people were like then why the heck do you want our votes if you do not really need them for your final aim. But in this case the point has merit.

    much rather bet your horses on one province and put all effort there knowing full well that if you win there you are good rather than the alternative. Likelihood of that is greater.

    The point is that PML-N has had 6 or 7 terms in Punjab and that only has been interrupted by military danda. And its not like unlike Sindh, other parties dont put effort to win seats here. But as far as performances is concerned it hasnt merited the re elections despite some flagship projects but PML-N keeps winning.


    #MPGA

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    No one could even think about the downfall of Bhutto's PPP! Then what happened we all know! Similarly, no one could even think about MQM's neutralization! Look what happened!

    Its just a matter of time! They may done good things as well but they have lied as well to the nation! Many articles of the constitution aren't followed in true letter and spirit!

  38. #38
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    I don't think that Punjab is voting for a non-Punjab based party any time soon after the way they got treated for trusting PPP. The party completely disregarded its punjabi mnas and treated the whole province with disregard and regionalist rhetorics (especially on kalabagh dam).

    It's the same logic that has been alive everywhere in Pakistan for a while now, including Karachi and KPK, it just took Punjabis longer to learn the lesson.


    "Uss Din Eid Mubarak Hossi Jiss Din Fer Milan Day"

    Adieu Friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    I don't think that Punjab is voting for a non-Punjab based party any time soon after the way they got treated for trusting PPP. The party completely disregarded its punjabi mnas and treated the whole province with disregard and regionalist rhetorics (especially on kalabagh dam).

    .
    When did that happen?

    dont think PPP has won majority in Punjab since the 77 elections


    #MPGA

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    Btw for purposes of this thread I would exclude South Punjab as I mentioned before.


    #MPGA

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_KING View Post
    I don't like Imran Khan the politician so of course I'll be happy if he loses.
    Why don't you like Imran Khan the politician?


    Pakistan is that kid who never studies for his exams but is surprised when he fails.

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    Seems it's a close race for NA-122.


    Pakistan is that kid who never studies for his exams but is surprised when he fails.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    When did that happen?

    dont think PPP has won majority in Punjab since the 77 elections
    PPP always had a decent presence in Punjab since Zulfiqar's time and, in 2008, they won 107 MPA seats (and more than 40 MNA) in Punjab which led them to forming the federal gov and part of the ruling coalition in Punjab. However, I don't blame you for not accounting it since, looking at PPP rhetorics and policies post-2008, it makes it seem like they had the same Punjabi presence as MQM.


    "Uss Din Eid Mubarak Hossi Jiss Din Fer Milan Day"

    Adieu Friends.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    PPP always had a decent presence in Punjab since Zulfiqar's time and, in 2008, they won 107 MPA seats (and more than 40 MNA) in Punjab which led them to forming the federal gov and part of the ruling coalition in Punjab. However, I don't blame you for not accounting it since, looking at PPP rhetorics and policies post-2008, it makes it seem like they had the same Punjabi presence as MQM.
    They won majority of those seats in South Punjab Seraiki belt which I have mentioned is an area not relevant to my question. However I don't blame you for not knowing the details of who won where considering you are not on the ground and have at most a basic understanding having lived most of your life abroad

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    They won majority of those seats in South Punjab Seraiki belt which I have mentioned is an area not relevant to my question. However I don't blame you for not knowing the details of who won where considering you are not on the ground and have at most a basic understanding having lived most of your life abroad
    Then you should have put it in your title and OP. You may wish otherwise but Punjab still refers to the whole province.

    And there are several north punjabi seats that PPP has been winning for ever now (eg Muhammad Asghar Kaira since 1985).


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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11ShadyBrothers View Post
    Real change would be when PTI wins majority in Sind because of the mentally slave awam found in Sindh who are imprisoned by their vadeeras.

    At least punjabis are free to vote for the most part.
    Not at all, except few major cities and even in Lahore, Gujranwala urban areas, it is based upon baradari, family influence and financial resources.

    Today's Okara election vindicates that when an independent wins easily there. N league just know the ground realities better than PTI and are in a better position to note winnable candidates than pti.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

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    I've seen many irrational die-hard PMLN fans in Lahore who thinks of PMLN as the chosen-one, even it drags them back to stone-age. So its not going to happen anytime soon!
    Last edited by abc_to_xyz; 11th October 2015 at 20:59.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11ShadyBrothers View Post
    Punjabis dont have much options.

    Imran khan is seen as a nutbag in most corners. PPP is a BIG NO NO esp after their corrupt rule in 2010s. So, PMLN is left. Also, PMLN has been doing some work too like Metro buses and now they are developing orange train as well.

    Also, they are applying the principle of most significant change (MSC) which i studied in a public administration course where governments try to show the most visual change which benefits the awam as well without any consideration of cost benefit. This does sounds bad but that is quite suitable for mentality of our awam who get happy after seeing motorway.

    Also, loadshedding has reduced a lot as compared to PPP rule which was absolutely awful ( have i said it enough?)

    Noon league might start working on grass root levels like for instance improving health and education which is totally awesome if they pull this off.

    Can easily see N-league winning the next election.
    This is absolutely false.

    Popular support works in major cities and by that popularity electables jump on a party bandwagon. Today's result where PTI lost on NA and won on PA against the sitting government suggests you that pti and N league are neck to neck.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    This is absolutely false.

    Popular support works in major cities and by that popularity electables jump on a party bandwagon. Today's result where PTI lost on NA and won on PA against the sitting government suggests you that pti and N league are neck to neck.
    i think he is right,

    PTI campaigned a lot for this seat and put in a lot of effort for one seat which is something they will not be able to do at all in a general election. But yet they lost..

    Khandaan and biraadri are very strong here so dont see PTI or anyone making huge inroads.

    Only 2 scenarios they can:

    1) The chaduhdries and zamindars jumps ship to PTI and PTI accepts them en-masse.
    2) Another global and national level financial crisis similar to 2008 and oil going above $100 for an extended period near the end of their 5 years and sky high inflation.


    #MPGA

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    i think he is right,

    PTI campaigned a lot for this seat and put in a lot of effort for one seat which is something they will not be able to do at all in a general election. But yet they lost..

    Khandaan and biraadri are very strong here so dont see PTI or anyone making huge inroads.

    Only 2 scenarios they can:

    1) The chaduhdries and zamindars jumps ship to PTI and PTI accepts them en-masse.
    2) Another global and national level financial crisis similar to 2008 and oil going above $100 for an extended period near the end of their 5 years and sky high inflation.
    No, he is not.

    N league also had their ministers, sitting government, and the candidate who is supposed to be Speaker. They could actually give low scale jobs and promise local level development. They also won't have this luxury in general elections.

    Khandans are very much part of pti, many Q league electables are part of pti.

    You don't know the plight of farmers these days which is very bad these days. I can expect a N league close victory but easy it is never going to be.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    1) The chaduhdries and zamindars jumps ship to PTI and PTI accepts them en-masse.
    PTI has already accepted them en masse: Shah Mahmood Qureishi, Mian Afzal Hayat, Muhammad Afzal Gondal, Ch Mohammad Ilyas, Ghulam Sarwar Khan, Makhdoom Asad Hayat, Makhdoom Javed Hashmi, Jahanzeb Khan Khichi, Mian Ghaus Muhammad,... Beautiful list of progressive awaami leaders.
    Last edited by endymion248; 11th October 2015 at 22:27.


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  52. #52
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    And even by prostituting themselves for these electables who often were favourites for their seats, PTI still managed to lose the seats. At some point, I think they will have to stop blaming biraderi politics when they themselves lose after playing biraderi politics as best as they can be played. Same thing that happened in Lahore, what trick is there that PML-N played but PTI didn't?


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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    And even by prostituting themselves for these electables who often were favourites for their seats, PTI still managed to lose the seats. At some point, I think they will have to stop blaming biraderi politics when they themselves lose after playing biraderi politics as best as they can be played. Same thing that happened in Lahore, what trick is there that PML-N played but PTI didn't?
    quantity clearly doesnt compare to what PML-N has.

    Also in 2013 elections, whatever seats PTI won in Punjab was due to these zamindars and chaudhries (electables) who had jumped ship to it which shows that there is a clear relation as far as winning seats are concerned. Its another story though that why would these people leave PML-N right now.

    Finally where did I say its a beautiful list of leaders (these electables) or whether I support it. I simply claimed that for any chance of someone breaking the shackles of PML-n in Punjab, they will need to get these electables because the awaam is mentally enslaved to them and this is the truth. Odd cases contrary to this are an anomaly.


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    I think that the main problem is that PTI (and analysts in general) don't really understand northern punjabi politics. They try to apply the notions of jageerdar and zameendar that may exist elsewhere but really don't in Punjab. Most NA winners who own big time land didn't own it even 70 years ago (let alone 100-200 or more as it is in other regions of the country). Most old time landlords can much less win their pa or even nazim seat, let alone national assembly. The real power in Punjab is to the small time farmers who made it big in business, often thanks to the development of cities around their lands (the winners of the GT road lottery) because, as opposed to the businessmen, they do have biraderi connections but also the money to finance their ambitions. No zamindar has that because I don't think there is any zamindar in northern Punjab with more than 50 murabas of land (or 20 murabas of nehri land), clearly not enough to win an NA election just based on his tenants (like it happens in Sindh). PTI has desperately been trying to appeal towards these people despite the fact that the paradigm has been shifted away from them long ago (or maybe they understand that but they don't have the other people and have to settle for them).
    Last edited by endymion248; 11th October 2015 at 22:41.


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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    quantity clearly doesnt compare to what PML-N has.

    Also in 2013 elections, whatever seats PTI won in Punjab was due to these zamindars and chaudhries (electables) who had jumped ship to it which shows that there is a clear relation as far as winning seats are concerned. Its another story though that why would these people leave PML-N right now.
    Actually, most of PTI's electables outside south Punjab lost. Their seats in the north are that of Imran Khan and non-electables around the Mianwali area.

    Finally where did I say its a beautiful list of leaders (these electables) or whether I support it. I simply claimed that for any chance of someone breaking the shackles of PML-n in Punjab, they will need to get these electables because the awaam is mentally enslaved to them and this is the truth. Odd cases contrary to this are an anomaly.
    Don't see where I said that you did. Not everything has to be an argument, I just provided the list to you to remind you of PTI's ''chaudrys'' then made an observation on it.


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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    I think that the main problem is that PTI (and analysts in general) don't really understand northern punjabi politics. They try to apply the notions of jageerdar and zameendar that may exist elsewhere but really don't in Punjab. Most NA winners who own big time land didn't own it even 70 years ago (let alone 100-200 or more as it is in other regions of the country). Most old time landlords can much less win their pa or even nazim seat, let alone national assembly. The real power in Punjab is to the small time farmers who made it big in business, often thanks to the development of cities around their lands (the winners of the GT road lottery) because, as opposed to the businessmen, they do have biraderi connections but also the money to finance their ambitions. No zamindar has that because I don't think there is any zamindar in northern Punjab with more than 50 murabas of land (or 20 murabas of nehri land), clearly not enough to win an NA election just based on his tenants (like it happens in Sindh). PTI has desperately been trying to appeal towards these people despite the fact that the paradigm has been shifted away from them long ago (or maybe they understand that but they don't have the other people and have to settle for them).
    informational post.

    but even these guys are electables


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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slog View Post
    informational post.

    but even these guys are electables
    Yes but they are not ''guaranteed'' electables, which is why PTI's are not winning. You need to spend a lot of money and play a lot of politics to win in Punjab (similar to Karachi) while the word jageerdar, to me, implies somebody who owns his votes already (because the votes are his tenants/kamis). In northern Punjab, land ownership is very morcelated so nobody can win based on that alone.
    Last edited by endymion248; 11th October 2015 at 23:21.


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    I think what ppl are forgetting is the fact PMLN has done work in Punjab which is why they are being favoured. Only way and I say only way as its the one way to win for IK is to first clean his own party (ppl beside him are all corrupt) and second do work in KPK. Ppl in Lahore/Punjab are not stupid. They see the work and vote to ones who do work.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by endymion248 View Post
    Yes but they are not ''guaranteed'' electables, which is why PTI's are not winning. You need to spend a lot of money and play a lot of politics to win in Punjab (similar to Karachi) while the word jageerdar, to me, implies somebody who owns his votes already (because the votes are his tenants/kamis). In northern Punjab, land ownership is very morcelated so nobody can win based on that alone.
    Even Chaudhry Anwer cheema could lose as there is no guaranteed electable. You are talking between Gujrat and Pindi districts only where people don't have huge lands. But in central Punjab between Gujrat and Faisalabad baradari and resources come before party.
    It is a fact that people have their personal vote banks because of influence and the one who adds 10-20 percent party votes ends up on the winning side. There are mostly 2 to 3 strong families in a constituency and who ever gets the better ticket improves his chances.

    The point is that party manifestos, ideologies and policies don't matter in rural areas, but the combination of candidate and the party expected to form government does the trick.


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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by waqar goraya View Post
    Even Chaudhry Anwer cheema could lose as there is no guaranteed electable. You are talking between Gujrat and Pindi districts only where people don't have huge lands. But in central Punjab between Gujrat and Faisalabad baradari and resources come before party.
    It is a fact that people have their personal vote banks because of influence and the one who adds 10-20 percent party votes ends up on the winning side. There are mostly 2 to 3 strong families in a constituency and who ever gets the better ticket improves his chances.

    The point is that party manifestos, ideologies and policies don't matter in rural areas, but the combination of candidate and the party expected to form government does the trick.
    Lands are also morcelated in Gujrat and Jhelum. What you are talking about is a system of familial clientelism that is very fluid and not a sure thing at all. The 2-3 strong families have to constantly keep the families under them happy to keep their vote bank. And it requires massive financial means.


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    Yep, they have only increased their finances because at first they mostly had only land revenue but now they have diversified their incomes in industry and business.


    " Don't wait. The time will never be just right "

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    So much for "shackles will never be broken", this close contest shows just how far PTI have come.

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    Pakistanis don't deserve anything better to happen in their lives...they want the same corrupt 'Caste Based' voting system to keep going...and what they get is the same corrupt chorrs in the office, one after the other; the cycle just keeps on going!

    For Allah to change their condition, these people must want it bad first which does not look likely for now

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    Sitting government wins 1/3 seats in by-election in Punjab today.. tells you a lot.. Today's performance should give everyone a lot of hope today.

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    Will Punjab ever get out of Shackles of PML-N?

    Not in many decades i think. Punjab has good reason to support PMLN. After all, PMLN had done a lot of work for Punjab, from the Metro in Lahore to Rawalpind-Islamabad and many upcoming projects including Metro rails. There has been a lot of investment on energy sectors like Powerplant, Solar energy, dam and there are more which i cannot recall at the moment.

    In term of economy perspective, CPEC was the major success for the expanding Gawadar Port and more. Huge investment on farming sector lately which is huge sigh of relief compared to the treatment of Indian farmers during the ruling of Modi.

    For the safety of Pakistan, Zarb-e-Azb has been launched to clean out the terrorism, and expanded all the way to MQM and gansters in Karachi while keeping PPP at bay in form of monitoring their events. The situation in Pakistan has improved a lot recently. The relationship between Balochistan rebels and Pakistan army has never been better.

    Suffice to say, PMLN is here to stay. PMLN may not have done a lot for Pukhtoonistan, Sindh and Balochistan, but PMLN made Punjab some developed province - at one time looked like undeveloped and not looked after from during the ruling of Pervaiz Musharraf to Zardari. Under PMLN, Punjab has come in the long way. People in Rawalpindi is full of praise for that party. That's where i lived for a while and gathered ground reality information. The bottom line is that people in Pukhtoonistan voted for Imran Khan for the same reason Punjab has voted for PMLN.

    As long as PMLN keep investing to make the modern province such as Metro rails and more to come, PMLN is here to stay. And competition is good for Pakistan. The more the merrier.

  66. #66
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    Historically by-elections are mostly won by ruling party no matter how bad corrupt incompetent they are. The best recent example is when SMQ resigned from Parliament in PPP government the candidate who won was son of PM Gillani and he got 93,000+ votes under PPP government (and we we are talking about the most corrupt and incompetent govt of our entire history) and in next general elections 2013 he came at number 3 after PMLN and PTI and his votes were less than 50,000 that is 14,000 less than PTI candidate who came at number 2 and 31,000 less than PMLN candidate who won in general elections.

    The fight shown by PTI against ruling party yesterday was amazing and they endup winning PP seat and lost by a small margin when even die hard PTI supporters were expecting a huge defeat.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  67. #67
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    I would say PTI`s popularity is growing.Seems like people are seeing the light.Hopefully, we can get rid of these thugs.

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    PML-N will always remain a top party in Punjab, at the same time PTI's popularity is on the rise despite them continuing to shoot themselves in the foot. Imran had an opening with this re-election and he shot himself in the foot by choosing a rather controversial candidate in Aleem Khan. Despite that PTI ran very close to beating PML-N in NA122.

    2018 will be a very interesting prospect but if Imran continues to make the same mistakes he has been making there is no doubt that again PTI will lose. PML-N are historically corrupt and even though they have developed Lahore a lot of questions are raised about their priorities, Punjab police etc. PTI on the other hand has also disappointed a lot of people and have deviated from the principles a lot of people supported them for. To be honest it may just boil down to the candidates in the end. One thing is for sure, the rivalry of PTI and PML-N is good for Pakistan as both will strive to do better.


    "Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they prosper and die in the hands of politicians."-Iqbal

  69. #69
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    lol @ this stupid video of pmln supporters and than only youthias and insafians are blamed for their stupid acts.



    btw all type nacha gana is also part of pmln and ppp campaigns now so what happened to that argument of naach gana that they usually use against PTI?


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ View Post
    Disgraceful thread title, but par for the course with the OP being a diehard ********.

    His beloved PTI got millions of votes in Punjab yet still refers to the people as being in shackles, this is precisely the arrogant attitude which has turned people away from Khan.

    As long as PMLN keep doing good work they will get the people's vote, I wish the other provinces had a CM even half as determined and hardworking as Shahbaz Sharif.

    Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
    The OP has more to do with hatred for everything Punjab than PTI/PMLN. Its ironic that the province Sindh has the worse case in terms of getting shackled than any other province yet our kind innocent friend sees Punjab in shackles. LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 11ShadyBrothers View Post
    The OP has more to do with hatred for everything Punjab than PTI/PMLN. Its ironic that the province Sindh has the worse case in terms of getting shackled than any other province yet our kind innocent friend sees Punjab in shackles. LOL.
    Punjab is more important for PTI to change the country

  72. #72
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    Half good as Shehbaz Sharif? It's funny


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  73. #73
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    SS is only good for taking notices and making committees.

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    Sehwag and Steyn are the Best.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deosai View Post
    Punjab is more important for PTI to change the country
    Clearly difficult concept to grasp for some.

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    Unless people get more maturity or army take over. They have a strong base in Punjab. The current corrupt electoral system will allow them to be reselected again and again.they are too powerful to be beaten by a party like PTI who lacks financial resources to beat them even though their ideology is much stronger and they have a much cleaner past..

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    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by saeedhk View Post
    SS is only good for taking notices and making committees.

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    True. They couldn't do a jack about Zardari and Mia brothers corruption scandals.

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    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    True. They couldn't do a jack about Zardari and Mia brothers corruption scandals.

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    They used to criticize Chaudharies all the time but can't even take action against them as a govt. Bas baaten suno inki kaam waam koi nae

    pesa nikelwayenge pait main hath daal ker or ulta latkayenge


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    They used to criticize Chaudharies all the time but can't even take action against them as a govt. Bas baaten suno inki kaam waam koi nae

    pesa nikelwayenge pait main hath daal ker or ulta latkayenge
    Chowdhary Iftikhar and that lawyer's movement was the biggest joke I have witnessed. Pathetic that they got so much coverage and attention. Really waste of timem
    Last edited by MRSN; 15th October 2015 at 12:02.


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    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSN View Post
    Chowdhary Iftikhar and that lawyer's movement was the biggest joke I have witnessed. Pathetic that they got so much coverage and attention. Really waste of timem
    Yea that was pathetic and he was an attention seeker when senior lawyers who were part of that movement realized it was too late already

    btw here i was talking about chaudharies (pml q, pevez elahi and shujat)


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic – it is when the stars align. "

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    Yea that was pathetic and he was an attention seeker when senior lawyers who were part of that movement realized it was too late already

    btw here i was talking about chaudharies (pml q, pevez elahi and shujat)
    I know. Chowdharies were really much much better than these goons. I have seen more work in their five years tenure than PML N's government in last 10 years.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "This business that it's 'up to Misbah' whether he wants to play or not – that's rubbish - it's up to the selectors," Chappell said.


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