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  1. #1
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    How quick were Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis and Aaqib Javed at their peak?

    The discussion point of this thread, is explained in the title itself.

    The 4 names were among the best fast bowlers Pakistan has ever produced. They however had their peak in the late 80s/ early 90s, when speed guns were not in effect during international matches. Hence, we've very little idea about their pace, though video clippings might be a reasonable indicator.

    Below is my assessment watching some old clips of these players as follows, which I believed were at their peak -

    Imran - 1982 series against India at home - was around 135 to 140 kph with prodigious swing and seam movement, making him the most potent opening bowler.

    Wasim - 1992 world cup - round about the same pace (perhaps a bit slower) than Imran at his peak. But his fast run up and quick arm action coupled with the swing and deadly accuracy made him a difficult proposition.

    Aaquib Javed - 1991 Sharjah, a medium pace swing bowler around 130 to135 kph.

    Waqar Younis - early 1990s New Zealand series, easily the quickest of these 4 known for his deadly in-swinging Yorker. Must be in 140s at peak.

    Your thoughts ?

  2. #2
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    Waqar was the fastest if you compare all these 4 and he bowled in 150s during his peak years. Even around 2001 when he was at the end of his career we saw him bowling in late 140s.

    Wasim at peak was bowling 140-145s

    Imran at peak was around 140s

    Wasim was the most skillful bowler but Imran was far more effective (Tests) while Waqar at peak pre injury was simply the best!


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  3. #3
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    I have seen Waqar bowl at 155 clicks.

    Shoaib was bowling 99mph consistently during wc 99. What a wonderful era that was.

  4. #4
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    Fastest deliveries:-

    Waqar - 160 kph

    Imran - 158 kph

    Wasim - 156 kph

    Aqib - 152 kph

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevewittry View Post
    The discussion point of this thread, is explained in the title itself.

    The 4 names were among the best fast bowlers Pakistan has ever produced. They however had their peak in the late 80s/ early 90s, when speed guns were not in effect during international matches. Hence, we've very little idea about their pace, though video clippings might be a reasonable indicator.

    Below is my assessment watching some old clips of these players as follows, which I believed were at their peak -

    Imran - 1982 series against India at home - was around 135 to 140 kph with prodigious swing and seam movement, making him the most potent opening bowler.

    Wasim - 1992 world cup - round about the same pace (perhaps a bit slower) than Imran at his peak. But his fast run up and quick arm action coupled with the swing and deadly accuracy made him a difficult proposition.

    Aaquib Javed - 1991 Sharjah, a medium pace swing bowler around 130 to135 kph.

    Waqar Younis - early 1990s New Zealand series, easily the quickest of these 4 known for his deadly in-swinging Yorker. Must be in 140s at peak.

    Your thoughts ?
    Not even close.

    Imran Khan in 1982-83 bowled at up to 150K but mainly operated between 140-146K.

    Wasim Akram in 1984-85 and again in 1987-1990 peaked around 150K but mainly operated at 140-145K.

    Aaqib Javed always operated at 135-140K.

    Waqar Younis between 1989-1991 peaked around 160K but mainly operated at 145-155K. In that period he was clearly quicker than Shoaib Akhtar ever was for full spells.
    Last edited by Junaids; 25th February 2016 at 17:17.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Not even close.

    Imran Khan in 1982-83 bowled at up to 150K but mainly operated between 140-146K.

    Wasim Akram in 1984-85 and again in 1987-1990 peaked around 150K but mainly operated at 140-145K.

    Aaqib Javed always operated at 135-140K.

    Waqar Younis between 1989-1991 peaked around 160K but mainly operated at 145-155K. In that period he was clearly quicker than Shoaib Akhtar ever was for full spells.
    Any proof of these speeds?


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  7. #7
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    Shoaib Akhtar and M. Zahid both 166 mph

  8. #8
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    Why have such a long run up to trundle in at 135 kph ?

    Don't what OP is watching, but I'm ran was comfortably 145-150 kph at peak. He dropped pace after the knee stress fracture but when he came back in 1986-87, he was even more skilful and almost singlehandedly won Pakistan a series in England and Pakistan won in India and also would've won against the GOAT WI in WI had the umpires been neutral.


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  9. #9
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    Aquib was never express, just above 80MPH probably.

    He had late swing which made him a potent bowler.

  10. #10
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    Waqar younis has been measured at 153-4 in 93 after his injury in 91-92 where he is said to have lost pace. He probably was as fast as Akhter if not faster at his peak.
    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/con...rds/95065.html

    Sent from my SM-G925I


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  11. #11
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    As for Imran he was a medium pace bowler at the start but no doubt was bowling express speeds at his peak otherwise reverse swing would not have been potent without high speed.

    It cost him with severe injury but left a legacy for the upcoming bowlers.

  12. #12
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    Waqar looked as quick as Akhtar at his peak. He must have bowled few balls near 155K atleast.
    Wasim and Imran faster one would have reached 150K.


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  13. #13
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    I think waqar and imran were faster than wasim. And Wasim was sharper than Aqib. I dont have any speed numbers or any reference. Though I remember that in pakistan's tour of SA in early 90s where they played a triangular tournament with SA and WI; Waqar was around 155-157. Alan Donal was around 155 and wasim around 152...The number were more or less in this order.
    I remember watching a youtube video of wasim in australia bowling against SL batsman in odis and the ball really zipping through probably around 1989.
    And some of the Imran khan's wickets were on sharp incutters beating batsmen by movement or pace or both....I really dont know as I am a casual cricket fan...but to me those were sharp deliveries.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90MPH View Post
    As for Imran he was a medium pace bowler at the start but no doubt was bowling express speeds at his peak otherwise reverse swing would not have been potent without high speed.

    It cost him with severe injury but left a legacy for the upcoming bowlers.
    That injury cost him years at peak of his career otherwise he was going to take many more wicket he wasn't even aware of his injury and was bowling with injury.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  15. #15
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    Aaqib was basically a medium pacer.

    Waqar was the fastest of them all , i think his recorded top speed was 94.6 mph and he probably would have bowled faster than this.

    I am not sure about imran.

    Wasim in late eighties was very very quick , he could bowl 150s.


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  16. #16
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    OP, how can u judjge the speed by watching clips on tv? That is some talent indeed man. Not sure of Aaquib, the rest have touched 150's at various times of their career. I remember Waqar as late as 2001 hitting 150ks....


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    Let us thrown random speed numbers in and feel macho about it..

    I dont think think apart from Waqar and may be Imran Khan others were express pacers just quality bowlers...at the speed Wasim was operating in end 90s and early 2000s (80-86 MPH) he was quite dangerous due to skills and brain he got.

    Imran during that 1979 speed test with his old action was clocked 139.7 KPH on the flip side Thompson was also clocked at max speed of 149 KPH so we can say with his modified action and proper testing he should clock around 149/150 KPH mark not quicker (which is quite quick)...

    Waqar Younis was clocked fastest 153 KPH in 1993 in SA which was his peak really and is quite some pace to say the least with his yorkers and swing deadly I must say.

    Waseem Akram is measured at 145 KPH in 1993 also he was also young and at his peak speed so hard to say if he use to bowl any faster...how good he was that is not something up their to debate.

    Aqib was not measured as per my knowledge but he was slowest of the lot I think and should be around 140-145 at best.

    These speeds I got from http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/con...rds/95065.html link and is provided with this disclaimer.

    This list is not a comprehensive database of all such deliveries to have been timed at 140kph or faster. Nor is it official in any capacity. It simply shows which bowlers have broken this barrier on known occasions in international matches. If you are able to supply any substantiable information on deliveries not listed below, please contact Eddie so we can endeavour to make it more complete.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junaids View Post
    Not even close.

    Imran Khan in 1982-83 bowled at up to 150K but mainly operated between 140-146K.

    Wasim Akram in 1984-85 and again in 1987-1990 peaked around 150K but mainly operated at 140-145K.

    Aaqib Javed always operated at 135-140K.

    Waqar Younis between 1989-1991 peaked around 160K but mainly operated at 145-155K. In that period he was clearly quicker than Shoaib Akhtar ever was for full spells.
    Err yeah any proof of this ? lol


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhump View Post
    Let us thrown random speed numbers in and feel macho about it..

    I dont think think apart from Waqar and may be Imran Khan others were express pacers just quality bowlers...at the speed Wasim was operating in end 90s and early 2000s (80-86 MPH) he was quite dangerous due to skills and brain he got.

    Imran during that 1979 speed test with his old action was clocked 139.7 KPH on the flip side Thompson was also clocked at max speed of 149 KPH so we can say with his modified action and proper testing he should clock around 149/150 KPH mark not quicker (which is quite quick)...

    Waqar Younis was clocked fastest 153 KPH in 1993 in SA which was his peak really and is quite some pace to say the least with his yorkers and swing deadly I must say.

    Waseem Akram is measured at 145 KPH in 1993 also he was also young and at his peak speed so hard to say if he use to bowl any faster...how good he was that is not something up their to debate.

    Aqib was not measured as per my knowledge but he was slowest of the lot I think and should be around 140-145 at best.

    These speeds I got from http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/con...rds/95065.html link and is provided with this disclaimer.

    This list is not a comprehensive database of all such deliveries to have been timed at 140kph or faster. Nor is it official in any capacity. It simply shows which bowlers have broken this barrier on known occasions in international matches. If you are able to supply any substantiable information on deliveries not listed below, please contact Eddie so we can endeavour to make it more complete.
    After 153 Waqar clocked 152 again in 1996 according to this list and 147 at the end of his career in 2000s


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  20. #20
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    Double lol @ Waqar being quicker than Shoib, Shoib was quickest bowler of all time PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!


    "You want Philly, Philly ? " Nicholas Edward Foles


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    Double lol @ Waqar being quicker than Shoib, Shoib was quickest bowler of all time PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yea but Zahid was quicker than Shoaib and this is what Shoaib Akhtar himself confirmed many times that Zahid was quicker than him when they played domestic together. The best spell Lara ever faced of pace bowling was by Zahid.

    Steve Waugh faced both Waqar and Akhtar but he mentioned that the fastest spell he ever faced was by Wasim.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    After 153 Waqar clocked 152 again in 1996 according to this list and 147 at the end of his career in 2000s
    Like I said 153 fastest he was clocked and that in a match so it is really difficult to assume he bowled at around 160 he could have bowled as quick as 154-155 KPH but thats it.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhump View Post
    Like I said 153 fastest he was clocked and that in a match so it is really difficult to assume he bowled at around 160 he could have bowled as quick as 154-155 KPH but thats it.
    I personally think Waqar was bowling at 150-155k at his peak but wasn't faster than Akhtar not even equal but Waqar at peak was far more effective with those toe crushers


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    I personally think Waqar was bowling at 150-155k at his peak but wasn't faster than Akhtar not even equal but Waqar at peak was far more effective with those toe crushers
    He was much better bowler than Akhtar on his peak period...He was destructive bowler with amazing ability to swing and accuracy...I dont think anything above 148 KPH swinging and dipping is a joke to play for any batsman and Waqar statics are evidence enough.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhump View Post
    He was much better bowler than Akhtar on his peak period...He was destructive bowler with amazing ability to swing and accuracy...I dont think anything above 148 KPH swinging and dipping is a joke to play for any batsman and Waqar statics are evidence enough.
    Yea no doubt about that those yorkers and reverse swing was deadly


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  26. #26
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    Lol @people exaggerating zahid's speed, Zahid may have been quicker than Shoaib when they played together but later in international cricket when Shoaib was at his peak he was easily the fastest bowler, Zahid couldn't have matched him, even lee was faster than Zahid

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    ........
    It's not about who was the fastest my point was some batsmen find different bowlers more dangerous and faster than others. Rashid Latif was standing behind the wicket in that Wasim spell he also confirmed that was one of the fastest spell he ever seen while if i am not wrong Steve Waugh later confirmed it in his book.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  28. #28
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    Since you are interested in pace at their peaks.


    Imran 145-150 kph

    Wasim 145-150 kph

    Aaqib 140-145 kph

    Waqar 155-160 kph

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romali_rotti View Post
    ........
    Lara actually said something like Zahid was one of the quickest bowlers he had faced

  30. #30
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    Wasim Akram after nearly 20 years of cricket, injurues and diabetes, was bowling at 86-87mph during the 2003 World Cup. He operated around 140kph at his peak and could hit 150+ when needed to. Mohammad Aamir can hit 152, so I'm pretty sure Wasim also could have.

    Waqar when he first emerged was acknowledged to be the fastest in the world, faster than Allan Donald. He operated around 140-145, but there were times when he clearly bowled over 155kph. He was faster than Wahab Riaz (whose fastest is 154.5 or 96mph). In the 2003 World Cup Waqar, in his last match, was bowling up to 88mph.

    Imran Khan hit 139.7kph in the 1979 speed competition. But he himself says he would've bowled faster had he bowled full tosses and not bouncers. In the 82-83 series vs India Imran was clearly hitting 90mph. Richie Benaud says Imran usually operated around 87-88mph (140-142kph) in his peak. And at times he could hit 150+. His fastest ever would probably be faster than Wasim. Maybe 94-95mph.

    To get the ball to seriously reverse swing, everyone says you have to be capable of bowling it at 140-150kph. Which all of those bowlers could have done at their peak. I'd say Waqar was the fastest, he probably reached 97-99mph at his best. Though Shoaib on average was quicker during his 99-2003 peak.

  31. #31
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    The speed gun is overrated in a sense that even though we see people clocking 150 today, hardly anyone is quick enough to go through the or york batsmen in test cricket.

    Other than Aqib, all three were able to go through the defenses of quality test batsmen when they were even defending. It doesn't matter if they were 120 or 150 - they were fast enough for batsmen.

    Period.


    Azaadi. InshAllah.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    Lara actually said something like Zahid was one of the quickest bowlers he had faced
    Tony Cozier also said same thing in his PP interview http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/sh...ot-Tony-Cozier


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoUgandaCranes View Post
    The speed gun is overrated in a sense that even though we see people clocking 150 today, hardly anyone is quick enough to go through the or york batsmen in test cricket.

    Other than Aqib, all three were able to go through the defenses of quality test batsmen when they were even defending. It doesn't matter if they were 120 or 150 - they were fast enough for batsmen.

    Period.
    Yea its hard to trust speed guns i mean yesterday a bowler bowled a slower bowler and 137k was shown he bowl a far quicker delivery after it and it again shows 137ks lol


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    LOL in that comp average speed of the ball was measured and ball loses significant pace through the air

    in 2016 ball speed is measured straight out of hand, losses due to friction are neglected
    And do you think the precision and accuracy level of both the machines is same?

  35. #35
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    Aaqib was never a quick bowler. Operated in 130s. Could have hit 140+ if he was really trying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carrom_ball View Post
    And do you think the precision and accuracy level of both the machines is same?
    I dont know about accuracy but comparison between two readings is completely invalid

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hur rizvi View Post
    LOL in that comp average speed of the ball was measured and ball loses significant pace through the air

    in 2016 ball speed is measured straight out of hand, losses due to friction are neglected
    Yes the speed of ball over flight was measured but Imran was nowhere near 150ks.

    Thomson Andy Roberts Holding Lillee etc were clocked in 150s in different studies.


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  38. #38
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    My guesstimate

    Waqar was clocked at 95MPH so i believe he was more like Steyn's pace at his peak.Topping near 96-97 MPH.

    Wasim was likely 140-145ks consistently.

    Imran may have been similar speed to Wasim or couple of ks quicker.

    Aqib Javed was medium fast.


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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    Cloaked 147ks in 2001
    which match?
    sharjah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Yes the speed of ball over flight was measured but Imran was nowhere near 150ks.

    Thomson Andy Roberts Holding Lillee etc were clocked in 150s in different studies.
    He clocked 139.7 kph IIRC on that machine, where Thommo was clocked around 148 kph. So I leave it upon your wisdom to draw conclusion.

    You can simply add 7-8 kph to pace readings of that comp to get actual speed. That takes Imran to around 147 kph. He must have hit 150 kph at his peak.

    Roberts and Holding were genuine quicks. Imran wasnt that but at his peak he was certainly about same speed as Wahab riaz of today. around 150 kph

    What is there to surprise. Guys like Amir, Irfan, Ishant, Yadav, Aaron all have hit 150s. 150kph has been acheived by many in history. Yes Imran wasnt consistently in this bracket, but at absolute peak like against India in that 83 series he was definitely 145-150 kph in his peak spells

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    Imran was more or less around 140k's...
    Wasim at his fastest was 145... On an average around 137-138k's
    Waqar - 145- 150.. Occasionally 150 I guess.
    Aaquib would have been around 135-138 at his fastest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    My guesstimate

    Waqar was clocked at 95MPH so i believe he was more like Steyn's pace at his peak.Topping near 96-97 MPH.

    Wasim was likely 140-145ks consistently.

    Imran may have been similar speed to Wasim or couple of ks quicker.

    Aqib Javed was medium fast.
    Bro this thread is about speeds at peak.

    You are mistaken if you think Waqar's speed at his absolute peak was comparable to steyn.

    Actually waqar wasnt measured at his peak before the 92 WC, when he was at his top speed.

  43. #43
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    Purely from watching:

    Imran bowling to Australia in Sydney in 76-77 is stuff of legends - I think bowled through an entire innings super fast. Some of his spells in Australia look ferocious in videos. According to Osman Samiuddin, that is when he discovered true speed.

    A fast bowler with variations of a spinner - in dipper, out swing, bounce, yorkers - was a true handful. Hence his 22 average despite injuries.

    I'd wager he was up in the late 140s, touching 150 in those times. Waqar would be 5k faster - and no less intimidating. Wasim maybe similar. Aqib not the same league.

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    Shoiab was easily the fastest Pakistani fast bowler, at his peak he was in the range on 150-155k, obviously touching 161 max speed... Some of his spell are shear pace and intimidation... He was also the most terror bowler among all of them, his bouncer was best among them...

    Waqar was second fastest, he was 5k slower than Akthar...before 1996 he was fastest in the world, with avg around 143/145, after that he lost 7/10 clicks of pace... Most of his bite was gone after 1996...

    Than Imran, who was on average slower than Waqar, around again 5k... His average at peak was around 140k, but some of his spells were brutal, he matched WIs in fire back in 80s...

    Wasim at peak could have hit 145-150, but on average he was 5k or more slower than Waqar...His average was more like 135/138k... His real weapon was swing and variety... I felt after 1996/97, he seems less interested in test, did not put much effort in those matches or did not had stomach, but in Odi he was king almost till the end...

    I don't know why mention Aqib in this category, he was never a fast bowler...


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    Quote Originally Posted by 90MPH View Post
    As for Imran he was a medium pace bowler at the start but no doubt was bowling express speeds at his peak otherwise reverse swing would not have been potent without high speed.

    It cost him with severe injury but left a legacy for the upcoming bowlers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    That injury cost him years at peak of his career otherwise he was going to take many more wicket he wasn't even aware of his injury and was bowling with injury.
    Bowling at express pace didn't cause the 2-3 years pause in Imran's bowling, it was incorrect medical advice that did. After the 3-4 Tests in the Pakistan vs India series in 1982-83 he got the fracture and the doctors said that he could play for the remaining two Tests when he should've rested and that led to the fracture reopening which caused prolonged rehabilitation.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pacesensation View Post
    which match?
    sharjah?
    NatWest Series England


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon786 View Post
    Bowling at express pace didn't cause the 2-3 years pause in Imran's bowling, it was incorrect medical advice that did. After the 3-4 Tests in the Pakistan vs India series in 1982-83 he got the fracture and the doctors said that he could play for the remaining two Tests when he should've rested and that led to the fracture reopening which caused prolonged rehabilitation.
    Ok fair enough but his bowling action did look a very awkward one that looked like it could lead to injury.

    Certainly these modern bowling coaches would not advocate such an action.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 90MPH View Post
    Ok fair enough but his bowling action did look a very awkward one that looked like it could lead to injury.

    Certainly these modern bowling coaches would not advocate such an action.
    He kept it after injury too.

    I agree though, a normal being wouldn't have been able to play for long with such an action.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Haroon786 View Post
    He kept it after injury too.

    I agree though, a normal being wouldn't have been able to play for long with such an action.
    He remodeled his action because he wanted to bowl quick and his old action wasn't helping otherwise he was a medium pacer back in early 70s


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

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    Imran in 1982 was about 150 plus. Hard to say if it was late 150s or early.

    Akram in 1988/1989 was easily 150 plus. Maybe 155.

    Waqar 1989/1990 before back injury and during that one Sharjah tournament (when he got 19 wickets in 5 games or so) was close to 160 I reckon.

    Akhtar we all know - 160k in 1999 to 2001.

    Aaquib never too quick. I woudl 85 to 88mph max.

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    Waqar was at his quickest in 91 before the WC in 92 and before his back injury, he did hit some good speeds around the 94-96 period but his peak was 90-91, where he was consistently bowling at 93-94mph. Wasim in his early days was quick but by 89 was his quickest bowling into the 92mph range. In the 90`s he was mostly around the 85mph, bar a few spells where he was absolutely lightening, one was against Eng at the Oval in 96 and the other against Ind at Sharjah, where he hit tendulkar in the head, before he had even had time to react. IK at his peak was hitting the 93-94 but that came in the early 80`s before the injury, when he came to England in 87 and the went to the Windies in 88,he was in the 90mph range. Aqib was around 82mph, occasionally hitting 84.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevewittry View Post
    Imran - 1982 series against India at home - was around 135 to 140 kph with prodigious swing and seam movement, making him the most potent opening bowler.
    More than that. Even Stokes can wind up to 140 km/h and Imran was certainly quicker than him. For a while after Holding and Thommo started to slow down and before Marshall appeared, Imran was the quickest in the world.

  53. #53
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    The first time I saw Waqar at full pelt was in 1990 against Northants at the Oval and it was a work of art. Lightening quick and very accurate, it was a joy to watch.

  54. #54
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    I think Waqar best came in 1991 county season he got 113 wickets in one season at an average of under 15. Took three 10 wicket hauls and thirteen 5fers. He was getting a wicket on every 30th ball.

    Other leading wicket takers that county season were Donald, Wasim, Aqib. Some famous batsmen in that county season were Saleem Malik, Azharudin, Nasser, Gooch etc

    Just imagine the quality of county cricket from 70s to 90s almsot every team had a very good bowling and batting lineup.


    " It is true, Pakistan cricket is not defined by planning, it is not defined by team work and it is not defined by an entire match. It is defined by moments, moments of inspiration, moments of magic, moments when the unsung become the sung, when the world starts rotating in the opposite direction, when the abnormal becomes the normal, when delusion becomes logic it is when the stars align. "

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by yasir View Post
    Shoiab was easily the fastest Pakistani fast bowler, at his peak he was in the range on 150-155k, obviously touching 161 max speed... Some of his spell are shear pace and intimidation... He was also the most terror bowler among all of them, his bouncer was best among them...

    Waqar was second fastest, he was 5k slower than Akthar...before 1996 he was fastest in the world, with avg around 143/145, after that he lost 7/10 clicks of pace... Most of his bite was gone after 1996...

    Than Imran, who was on average slower than Waqar, around again 5k... His average at peak was around 140k, but some of his spells were brutal, he matched WIs in fire back in 80s...

    Wasim at peak could have hit 145-150,


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    I have seen Waqar bowl at 96-98mph at his peak.

    Wasim was quick, around 88-92mph.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monsee View Post
    Yes, that would make more sense since that competition had Imran still bowling with his initial action and was 3-4 years before he was at his peak, makes complete sense now!
    Imran Khan born in 1952 was 27-28 in 1979.Its so believable that 28 year old bowler gains 10ks in speed when he reaches 31-32.Happens so often in cricket.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Acricketfan View Post
    Doing well away from home/home like conditions and general peer appreciation plus good record against the best bowlers of their era. Your greatest batsman ever , Miandad averages a miserable less than 30 against the best bowling attack of his and perhaps of all time. No one outside Pakistan gives two hoots about so called china made match winner Inzamam who batted like a tailender against Aus and Sa. The two best bowling attacks of his era after the super mighty and untouchable pakistan fast bowling attack of course. He won't get into the Mumbai all time XI let alone India.

    While the entire world acknowledges the greatness of Sachin, Dravid, Gavaskar, Hazare and praises Kohli and Rahane etc.

    But keep whining. Best of luck for that.
    didn't ask for you to list which of our players meet your criteria..simply asked what it was. good to see you were vague and deflected the debate towards Inzamam or Miandad. Come back when you know and when you have something substantial. funny, you called me bitter but come off exactly that in this post. you might want to look up the definition of whining btw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strike Rate View Post
    He remodeled his action because he wanted to bowl quick and his old action wasn't helping otherwise he was a medium pacer back in early 70s
    Although I knew that beforehand, thanks.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GoUgandaCranes View Post
    The speed gun is overrated in a sense that even though we see people clocking 150 today, hardly anyone is quick enough to go through the or york batsmen in test cricket.

    Other than Aqib, all three were able to go through the defenses of quality test batsmen when they were even defending. It doesn't matter if they were 120 or 150 - they were fast enough for batsmen.

    Period.
    This.

    Modern day speed guns are deceptive.

    Waqar, Wasim particularly were unplayable speed demons in their peak and if batsmen are playing Starc 160 kph with ease i wonder what speeds were those that even got Lara, De Silva floored.

  60. #60
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    Most observers of Imran, Wasim & Waqar at their peak would say they were all genuinely fast (150kph/93mph range). Imran could be fast & nasty - ask gavaskar . Wasim could also ratchet up with almost body line bowling- in 1992 tour of England he was consistently over 90 mph.
    Waqar at his peak was probably the quickest- before his stress fracture in 92 most writers in England had him as the fast bowler ever seen in England. Mike Atherton said Waqar was the quickest he s ever finished in the air. Waqar spell at the oval test 1992 with the new ball was reminiscent of watching Marshall at his best.
    Aqib was easiest the slowest but he was lively fast medium at around 87 mph/140kph.


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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Imran Khan born in 1952 was 27-28 in 1979.Its so believable that 28 year old bowler gains 10ks in speed when he reaches 31-32.Happens so often in cricket.


    So, in your simplistic theory, everyone on this earth learns, grows, behaves etc. the same way?

    It is rather silly of you to suggest that a bowler cannot gain speed especially after remodelling and perfecting his action and after physically becoming much stronger and then starting blowing the batsmen world over!

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monsee View Post
    So, in your simplistic theory, everyone on this earth learns, grows, behaves etc. the same way?

    It is rather silly of you to suggest that a bowler cannot gain speed especially after remodelling and perfecting his action and after physically becoming much stronger and then starting blowing the batsmen world over!
    Imran Khan was never clocked at 150ks.Not even close.He most likely topped around 145-146ks not 150 plus.

    Fast bowlers become stronger and better yes but not after the age of 30.Its laughable to suggest that a bowler gained 10ks in speed after 28-29 years of age.Fast bowlers start losing speed once they get to the other side of 30.


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  63. #63
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    Imran Khan was never known to be express....I have never heard any batsmen say that they were scared to play Imran Khan say in the mold of a Marshall,Holding or even Thompson.

    I don't mean to put down Imran here as he was a great player...one of the best ever to play the game but he was maybe in the same league as say a Zaheer Khan,Pollock or a Mcgrath,someone who had incredible skills and could up his pace to 135 or 140's if the situation demanded it.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    My guesstimate

    Waqar was clocked at 95MPH so i believe he was more like Steyn's pace at his peak.Topping near 96-97 MPH.

    Wasim was likely 140-145ks consistently.
    may have been similar speed to Wasim or couple of ks quicker.

    Aqib Javed was medium fast.

    Incorrect bhai.
    At his peak Imran could bowl frighteningly quick- look up what SUnil GAvaskar & k Dev said- remember their frame of reference of how quick IMran was at his peak was bowlers like Roberts, garner, Marshall, holding who they also faced. These were genuine quick bowlers we don't really see anymore


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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    Imran Khan was never known to be express....I have never heard any batsmen say that they were scared to play Imran Khan say in the mold of a Marshall,Holding or even Thompson.

    I don't mean to put down Imran here as he was a great player...one of the best ever to play the game but he was maybe in the same league as say a Zaheer Khan,Pollock or a Mcgrath,someone who had incredible skills and could up his pace to 135 or 140's if the situation demanded it.
    Many commentators have said Immy was genuinely quick. You need to research this more


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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Im Suds View Post
    Incorrect bhai.
    At his peak Imran could bowl frighteningly quick- look up what SUnil GAvaskar & k Dev said- remember their frame of reference of how quick IMran was at his peak was bowlers like Roberts, garner, Marshall, holding who they also faced. These were genuine quick bowlers we don't really see anymore
    No one ever compared IK's speed to Holding Marshall Roberts Thomson and co. who were all clocked in excess of 150ks at some point in time in their careers.

    IK was most likely Wasim's speed 140.-145 mostly with some effort deliveries may be going close to 148-149ks.What made IK look more dangerous was his wide of the crease angle and prodigious inswing which made the ball come in to the batsman at almost impossible angles and hit them on their bodies.And since the batsman had to contend with balls coming towards the body even a 145k ball felt more dangerous than a 155k ball leaving him.


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    135-140 with terrific skills like swing,seaming the ball,a good yorker and a good bouncer still feels very quick.

    Every Pundit names Wasim as the most difficult bowler they have faced and I don't have to say it but posts above already imply that he looked a notch slower than Waqar or Imran.

    I don't want this to look like I am downgrading Imran's skills but how many players have said they were scared of Imran's pace?

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    Getting annoyed at some posters chest thumping and asking parosis to stay away.

    Come up with some logic please rather than such illogical statements.

    Anyways,

    Shoaib Akhtar is the fastest bowler ever : so far at least, and probably for eternity as I don't think someone will break his record.

    Rest is nothing but speculation and 'eye speed gun' measurements.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    135-140 with terrific skills like swing,seaming the ball,a good yorker and a good bouncer still feels very quick.

    Every Pundit names Wasim as the most difficult bowler they have faced and I don't have to say it but posts above already imply that he looked a notch slower than Waqar or Imran.


    I don't want this to look like I am downgrading Imran's skills but how many players have said they were scared of Imran's pace?
    Quite a few actually- graham gooch, Allan border, Clive Lloyd, viv Richards .

    You havent seen or read enough of Imran .
    Remember we are talking about his peak years of 1982-5 . He was as quick as anyone in the world during this time .
    Better to say your not sure .


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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    No one ever compared IK's speed to Holding Marshall Roberts Thomson and co. who were all clocked in excess of 150ks at some point in time in their careers.

    IK was most likely Wasim's speed 140.-145 mostly with some effort deliveries may be going close to 148-149ks.What made IK look more dangerous was his wide of the crease angle and prodigious inswing which made the ball come in to the batsman at almost impossible angles and hit them on their bodies.And since the batsman had to contend with balls coming towards the body even a 145k ball felt more dangerous than a 155k ball leaving him.
    Are Sunil & kapil no bodies ?


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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    I don't mean to put down Imran here as he was a great player...one of the best ever to play the game but he was maybe in the same league as say a Zaheer Khan,Pollock or a Mcgrath,someone who had incredible skills and could up his pace to 135 or 140's if the situation demanded it.
    I saw a lot of Imran and he was consistently a yard quicker than any of those three.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Imran Khan born in 1952 was 27-28 in 1979.Its so believable that 28 year old bowler gains 10ks in speed when he reaches 31-32.Happens so often in cricket.
    Johnson bowled his fastest at 31-32.

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    Waqar's so called consistent express pace is a myth. Sure he could fire in the odd 155 km/hr yorker when really striving for the pull pitched yorker but he was at average around 140-145 km/hr for the most part and he would only push his efforts once the ball got older. He was certainly not quicker than Akhtar on average.

    Imran i believe on average would operate at 136-140 km/hr while really pushing himself for the effort ball when the new batsman is at the wicket. Same for Wasim.

    Aqib i believe was in the low to mid 130's but could really push himself to 140 km/hr as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cricketjoshila View Post
    Imran Khan was never clocked at 150ks.Not even close.He most likely topped around 145-146ks not 150 plus.

    Fast bowlers become stronger and better yes but not after the age of 30.Its laughable to suggest that a bowler gained 10ks in speed after 28-29 years of age.Fast bowlers start losing speed once they get to the other side of 30.


    You are continuing to go around the same silly logic i.e. all people grow strong, tall, old etc. at the sametime and that is the folly of your argument!

    Let's take an example from my own life: By the time I was 15, I was already 170 LBS and 5' 10 1/2" tall...now we all know that people keep growing even around 20-21 and yet I never grew an inch after that; so you are gonna tell me I should have peaked around 21, what happened there? Also, I was just reading an article that suggests that one can keep growing taller even after 21, how does that anomoly works then?

    Point of this is again, no two people grow tall, stronger, older etc. at the sametime. So for you to try and teach me something I know is wrong is not gonna work here...I watched Imran's whole career starting from 1976 and if you tell me you can deduce something different by just reading some articles, watching some videos and assuming a few things...that is purely your own incorrect analysis, nothing more than that.

    Imran reached his peak speeds in 1981-82, some 3 years after that speed competition and with a completely different action and a much stronger body as well!

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    lol at the insecure Imranstas, Proof or it didnt happen, there was no timed speed for Imran as far as I know in a real match. The only timed speed for Imran was during the speed contest in the 70's where he didnt even touch 140 ks if I am right ?....... PROOF or DIDNT happen, yeah yeah you can go on about this player said that and that player said this, not saying Imran was slow, he was quick by those days standards if he was playing today he wouldn't be considered quick, just about every country has now created a bowler who can come close to 150 Ks............
    Last edited by Romali_rotti; 26th February 2016 at 03:58.


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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaFighter View Post
    Waqar's so called consistent express pace is a myth. Sure he could fire in the odd 155 km/hr yorker when really striving for the pull pitched yorker but he was at average around 140-145 km/hr for the most part and he would only push his efforts once the ball got older. He was certainly not quicker than Akhtar on average.

    Imran i believe on average would operate at 136-140 km/hr while really pushing himself for the effort ball when the new batsman is at the wicket. Same for Wasim.

    Aqib i believe was in the low to mid 130's but could really push himself to 140 km/hr as well.



    Waqar was seriously quick in his peak, no wonder many batsmen of his era list him to be the fastest they have ever faced; the 2-3 serious injuries he suffered wrecked his speed completely. Even in 2001 in England and then in 2003 WC he was touching 130-135 KMH most of the time.

    LOL, so Aaqib, who was the slowest of the 4, was mostly low to mid 130's and Imran who was the 2nd fastest of the group also operated in around mid 130's - 140 KMH; make up your mind!

    Akram in his last WC: 2003 was still bowling in mid 130's to 140 KMH...so how was he at his peak at the same point as he was at the end of his career with diabetes and after a career of 20 years?

    People who are judging these bowlers on available videos alone since they have not seen these in person (most of their careers especially) should not be making any guesses IMO

  77. #77
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    You have to up your speed to be effective with reverse swing.....so a semi-altered ball from a bowler bowling 135 clicks now coming at the batsmen at 140's or even the odd 145 and doing crazy things will definitely feel a lot more quicker.

    Watch a regular pitched delivery of Morne Morkel at 150+ and watch a reverse swinging toe crushing inswinger from Wasim at 135-140 and tell me what looks quicker

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_champion View Post
    You have to up your speed to be effective with reverse swing.....so a semi-altered ball from a bowler bowling 135 clicks now coming at the batsmen at 140's or even the odd 145 and doing crazy things will definitely feel a lot more quicker.

    Watch a regular pitched delivery of Morne Morkel at 150+ and watch a reverse swinging toe crushing inswinger from Wasim at 135-140 and tell me what looks quicker
    Have you seen Imran, Wasim, or Waqar bowl when any of these were at their peak?


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    Everybody accepts that Imran was quick, I don't get why some people are trying to prove that he bowled 150+, there is no way to prove that, the only evidence we have suggests he bowled at max around 145, rest is just speculation

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by freelance_cricketer View Post
    This.

    Modern day speed guns are deceptive.

    Waqar, Wasim particularly were unplayable speed demons in their peak and if batsmen are playing Starc 160 kph with ease i wonder what speeds were those that even got Lara, De Silva floored.
    What got them floor was banana reverse swing more so than pace.... At that time only Pakistani knew how to reverse swing and the mechanics behind it, that was big advantage.... Also since there was less scrutiny about ball condition, Pakistan did it extra...

    I remember back in 90s we used to reverse a lot even at collage/university level, by scratching one side badly, even after 12/14 overs...obviously those matches were not very well policed...You cannot imagine the amount of reverse swing one can get when two sides completely opposite, one very shiny and other completely scratched!!


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