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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by JibranAnsari View Post
    20 wickets in 9 LA games this season @ 21 per wicket. He is doing well again.
    no doubt these numbers will be invisible to most again.

    where do you see these stats by the way, i find the pcb stats pages very poor in terms of extracting useful numbers.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    no doubt these numbers will be invisible to most again.

    where do you see these stats by the way, i find the pcb stats pages very poor in terms of extracting useful numbers.
    Pcboard.com , click on domestic and you will find all the records.


    It is either a heartache or a headache ..Argh relationships.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    Definitely lets never have the courage to put those kinds of hunches to a test.

    Gazillion something List A wickets at 18 must be a complete fluke.

    And "a bit of seam movement and some bounce" never described a successful international fast bowler.
    If he posses such prowess why didn't he get selected for any team in the Pakistan Cup?

    Focus point- National One Day Cup:

    A team batting first is yet to score 250. What does that tell us?
    Last edited by SL_Fan; 11th January 2017 at 09:54.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    If he posses such prowess why didn't he get selected for any team in the Pakistan Cup?

    Focus point- National One Day Cup:

    A team batting first is yet to score 250. What does that tell us?
    That tells us that the batting standards are pathetic. However, if you pull out overall career records, you will find many mediocre batsmen averaging 40+ in Pak's List-A (Khurram Manzoor, Azhar Ali, Ahmed Shahzad at one point, others). But no bowler averages <20, which makes Sadaf a rare commodity.


    In merit vs potential, potential usually causes the greatest heartbreak

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    How to pick a bowler

    We should never dare try any new bowler. Because every ODI match played against Windies is too important for experimentation.

    Always assume that if we can't explain how a bowler takes wickets or the earth is round, the bowler must be bad and the earth must be flat.

    Wickets mean nothing and intuitive feeling everything. Empirical evidence is so 1650.

    Don't stop believing. In Waqar
    Wasim is an ATG, and had ATG numbers in domestics and internationals. Tendulkar is an ATG and had ATG numbers in domestics and internationals. Yet some PPers are under the delusion that players who fail to thrive in domestics will magically perform in internationals, and players who have impressive stats in domestics will most certainly fail in internationals. Both these notions are parts of the same dumb ideology, one that only legends like @Hawkeye can fathom.


    In merit vs potential, potential usually causes the greatest heartbreak

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    If he posses such prowess why didn't he get selected for any team in the Pakistan Cup?

    Focus point- National One Day Cup:

    A team batting first is yet to score 250. What does that tell us?
    what is the relevance of batting sides scoring under an amount? whether its 500 or 50, the point is to compare the bowlers against each other, whatever the surfaces and whoever the batting sides. you make a valid point only when it comes to apportioning too great a weighting to a small number of data points - but comparing over say 200 wickets evens out seasons, grounds and opposition.

    i dont understand what argument can be made to suggest that one should not consider bowlers who consistently top the tables season after season, or at least most of the time.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by New Yorker View Post
    And what if he does? Sadaf's already been man of the series in two A-tours.

    Has nothing left to prove in LOI cricket.

    But to the joy of Shakeel Shaikh,and quite a few PPers, he will never get selected
    which A tours.

    can anyone link me to his scorecards?

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellipsism View Post
    If he posses such prowess why didn't he get selected for any team in the Pakistan Cup?

    Focus point- National One Day Cup:

    A team batting first is yet to score 250. What does that tell us?
    Do you even know that most of the games were shortened due to rain?


    You cannot ask us to take sides against arithmetic - Winston Churchill

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finisher View Post
    https://youtu.be/-lwPFVltDz4

    New video of Sadaf Hussain
    I am all for giving top performers a chance specially when we aren't spoilt for choices, but he doesn't look any special in this video.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    I am all for giving top performers a chance specially when we aren't spoilt for choices, but he doesn't look any special in this video.
    Yeah, should have bowled with his feet to stand out from the crowd. If you look at a clip featuring Amir, Steyn, Hazelwood or even Wasim in a random spell comprising equal number of balls as Sadaf, none of them will look any special. It is the ability to bowl a persistent line with occasional magic ball that identifies the best.


    In merit vs potential, potential usually causes the greatest heartbreak

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by asfandyar View Post
    Yeah, should have bowled with his feet to stand out from the crowd. If you look at a clip featuring Amir, Steyn, Hazelwood or even Wasim in a random spell comprising equal number of balls as Sadaf, none of them will look any special.
    Watch their videos and ask yourself if they are bowling at the same pace as Sadaf

  12. #252
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    I've seen him bowl and if he ever gets selected, some of you guys are in for a big surprise. Hint : he won't be averaging 19


    Please allow me to introduce myself: I'm a man of wealth & taste.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    Watch their videos and ask yourself if they are bowling at the same pace as Sadaf
    why does that matter?

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    why does that matter?
    Sadaf
    Attached Images Attached Images  


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by TalentSpotterPk View Post
    Sadaf
    i would bet if you put up the same stats for fawad, it would be the same thing. both will come under consideration two years late thanks do iqbal qasim, haroon rashid and the circus of clowns that have historically been the selectors.

  16. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    Watch their videos and ask yourself if they are bowling at the same pace as Sadaf
    I think you should send in your resume for the job of speed gun. Point being there is a bias when you have seen their actual speeds on TV. Had you seen them before debut you would have said the same about their speeds.
    Last edited by asfandyar; 12th January 2017 at 02:19.


    In merit vs potential, potential usually causes the greatest heartbreak

  17. #257
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    Today sadaf played the televised match.Pace is between 130 to 137.Swings the ball both ways.Gets decent amount of bounce.Accurate bowler.
    Not good as his stats suggest but a much better bowler than Rahat,Wahab,Ehsan,and Irfan.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by syed abbas View Post
    Today sadaf played the televised match.Pace is between 130 to 137.Swings the ball both ways.Gets decent amount of bounce.Accurate bowler.
    Not good as his stats suggest but a much better bowler than Rahat,Wahab,Ehsan,and Irfan.
    I have made my peace with the Fact that Sadaf unfortunately will never play for Pakistan.

    A very saddening thing but I guess that's what it is !!

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    I am all for giving top performers a chance specially when we aren't spoilt for choices, but he doesn't look any special in this video.
    If you have that far off video of any bowler, it will look ordinary.

    Only express pacers can look good in such an angle.


    I am not one of you. I never was. I am not one of them either.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahmedwaqas92 View Post
    I have made my peace with the Fact that Sadaf unfortunately will never play for Pakistan.

    A very saddening thing but I guess that's what it is !!
    It is unfortunate that he has not yet played for Pakistan but I am hopeful about his selection for West Indies tour.Today,Inzimam ul Haq was there at the stadium.He must have been impressed with Sadafs bowling.
    And Inzimam also said in a show that they would need some bowlers in near future.

  21. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by sensible-indian-fan View Post
    If you have that far off video of any bowler, it will look ordinary.

    Only express pacers can look good in such an angle.
    Ok fine.

    The main criticism over Sadaf has been his pace which is considered not high enough for international cricket. Now, every time you watch him in a different video including the one in the link above (or hear from acquaintances who have watched him play in Rawalpindi grounds), you are inclined to think that this criticism is somewhat valid. And since Pakistan is likely to play most of its matches in UAE, lack of pace is not going to help him.

    The Grays ball which is predominantly being used in domestics (apart from odd experiments with Kookaburras), and the pitches which we forced to transmute about 10-12 years ago, make some of the bowlers look world beaters. The ball (apart from having soft leather which along with its thick seam starts tearing apart after 20-25 overs) is notorious for conspicuous exaggerated swing and seam. So domestic stats of pacers (also helped by ineptness of our batsmen), even if remarkable, don't particularly excite me.

    Let me make it clear that I actually like his action which is a proper side-on action, unlike others these days who have mixed actions. Head is in line with the hips and uses his non-bowling arm well (lifts it high and stay tall enough to use his height well). And he effortlessly bowls closer to the stumps .

    And considering the dross we have got at international level, I wouldn't mind giving opportunities to the top domestic performers like him or Abbass. Despite the fact that some other performers like Asad Ali and Ehsan Adil have looked mediocre at international level. It's just that his speed never helps my doubts.
    Last edited by Stallion__; 12th January 2017 at 10:31.

  22. #262
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    Sadly I missed his bowling today.

    We can see him live again in atleast 2 televised matches before 20th January. If he gets a fourfer or fivefer in televised matches than it would be hard to ignore him.

    He is 128-138 kph accurate bowler who bowls with upright seam and swings the ball. Because of 6'4 height bounce is his weapon and despite bowling at this pace he is hard to be hit on the up.

    Mind you Imran, Rahat & Sohail bowl at same pace and in a 10 overs spell Rahat & Sohail can bowl only 5 - 10 bowls above 137 kph and that too on Aussie speed guns. So it's insignificant.

    I don't think anybody has ever said that Sadaf is next Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Zahid, Shoaib, Gul (peak), Junaid (peak), Amir (2009-2010) or Asif


    But he is a good bowler.


    Lastly I have seen Sadaf Hussain bowl in all televised matches even when he bowled for SSGC in Ramzan tournament. I just missed 2-3 televised matches which Sadaf played. He is slightly quicker than Imran Khan and sorry he doesn't bowl at Asad Ali's pace. Asad was 127-132 kph. Sadaf looks 128-138 kph plus he has added advantage of bounce.


    Ehsan's only issue was and is very poor fitness especially legs. After bowling 4-5 overs upfront he started crumbling at crease ie loses height (poor legs fitness) and pace drops. Another thing is that he needs to shorten his runup steps just like Mohammad did. His steps are too wide.


    Mujhay hai Hukm e Azaa-n

  23. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stallion__ View Post
    Ok fine.

    The main criticism over Sadaf has been his pace which is considered not high enough for international cricket. Now, every time you watch him in a different video including the one in the link above (or hear from acquaintances who have watched him play in Rawalpindi grounds), you are inclined to think that this criticism is somewhat valid. And since Pakistan is likely to play most of its matches in UAE, lack of pace is not going to help him.

    The Grays ball which is predominantly being used in domestics (apart from odd experiments with Kookaburras), and the pitches which we forced to transmute about 10-12 years ago, make some of the bowlers look world beaters. The ball (apart from having soft leather which along with its thick seam starts tearing apart after 20-25 overs) is notorious for conspicuous exaggerated swing and seam. So domestic stats of pacers (also helped by ineptness of our batsmen), even if remarkable, don't particularly excite me.

    Let me make it clear that I actually like his action which is a proper side-on action, unlike others these days who have mixed actions. Head is in line with the hips and uses his non-bowling arm well (lifts it high and stay tall enough to use his height well). And he effortlessly bowls closer to the stumps .

    And considering the dross we have got at international level, I wouldn't mind giving opportunities to the top domestic performers like him or Abbass. Despite the fact that some other performers like Asad Ali and Ehsan Adil have looked mediocre at international level. It's just that his speed never helps my doubts.
    He performed with the Kookaburra as well in the 2015 National ODI tourney.

  24. #264
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    Things like this happen when you do injustice with guys like Sadaf Hussain

    Avg of 18 over a span of 5 years. Tall, swings the new ball, bowl yorkers at death and bowl wicket to wicket but never got a chance. While mediocre bowlers had a free ticket in national odi side.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  25. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    Things like this happen when you do injustice with guys like Sadaf Hussain

    Avg of 18 over a span of 5 years. Tall, swings the new ball, bowl yorkers at death and bowl wicket to wicket but never got a chance. While mediocre bowlers had a free ticket in national odi side.
    can't be worse than Wahab. unfair treatment all round


    #InziOut

  26. #266
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    Hasan Ali was labelled by some experts on PP as a trundler who was bowling in the 125-130 kph range when they saw him in the domestics. Yet the guy hits 140+ regularly. Sadaf is easily a 135+ bowler, who can bowl impeccable lines and yorkers at will, from what I saw in a match that he actually underperformed in.


    In merit vs potential, potential usually causes the greatest heartbreak

  27. #267
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    As long as Shakeel Shnake is in PCB Sadaf won't get a look in any tournaments or games televised. PSL. Pakistan cup etc.

  28. #268
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    Definitely deserves a chance. I would replace all the ODI bowlers with the most promising bowlers from domestic cricket for a series or two. Then the best ones can be retained and developed. It doesn't take more than a couple of series to see potential.

  29. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedster777 View Post
    Definitely deserves a chance. I would replace all the ODI bowlers with the most promising bowlers from domestic cricket for a series or two. Then the best ones can be retained and developed. It doesn't take more than a couple of series to see potential.
    There are no promising bowlers. They will do worse than the current lot.


    "Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all." --Aristotle

  30. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayyman View Post
    There are no promising bowlers. They will do worse than the current lot.
    Where did Shadab and Ruman come from? did they fall from the sky?

  31. #271
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    I am suffering from Sadaf fatigue now, the guy is not considered good enough by different selectors and also by any of the PSL who are not biased to anyone and we still keep on listening about Sadaf again an again.

  32. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedster777 View Post
    Where did Shadab and Ruman come from? did they fall from the sky?
    I am pretty sure Raees would get smashed in an ODI.

    Idk too much about Rumman though.
    @Ellipsism might

  33. #273
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    Rumman is no more than a T20 specialist- never in my life have I seen a bowler bowl slower balls without conviction like Rumman. If he's using his slower balls to out-fox a batman, that's acceptable. But bowling slower balls for the sake of it is what little kids do.

    If my memory serves me correctly Rumman only bowled 4-5 seam up deliveries, which just goes to show that he bowls these variations for the sake of it.

  34. #274
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    what I heard is that the team management did take a look at him in the recent emerging talent camp, but thought his figures are flattered by playing mostly in Islamabad, and that he might be good in swinging conditions e.g. ANZ, otherwise they were not overly impressed.

  35. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    what I heard is that the team management did take a look at him in the recent emerging talent camp, but thought his figures are flattered by playing mostly in Islamabad, and that he might be good in swinging conditions e.g. ANZ, otherwise they were not overly impressed.
    http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Pakistan/P...by_Ground.html

    http://www.pcboard.com.pk/Pakistan/P...by_Ground.html


    In merit vs potential, potential usually causes the greatest heartbreak

  36. #276
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    thats very interesting. looks like he does play a lot of his games in pindi, but on the other hand, he seems to do pretty well everywhere.

  37. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
    thats very interesting. looks like he does play a lot of his games in pindi, but on the other hand, he seems to do pretty well everywhere.
    bro although his home ground is Pindi but he has done well in almost every ground.
    Either our domestic is pathetic to the core or this is gross injustice to this guy.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  38. #278
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    Sadaf Hussain will get a chance when he's past his peak, and then every hater will say "Told ya, he's useless"


    #InziOut

  39. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    Sadaf Hussain will get a chance when he's past his peak, and then every hater will say "Told ya, he's useless"
    yeah my friends who have watched him in Diamond cricket club Islamabad and Pindi stadium said he s very good. But that was few years ago.


    Sarfi as captain'll lead us to glory.Babar'll be our best odi bat & Haris'll be world class in tests

  40. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarfiBabarHaris View Post
    bro although his home ground is Pindi but he has done well in almost every ground.
    Either our domestic is pathetic to the core or this is gross injustice to this guy.
    yes you're right. when I speak to my source next, ill be sure to highlight that.

  41. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen4 View Post
    Sadaf Hussain will get a chance when he's past his peak, and then every hater will say "Told ya, he's useless"
    Very true. There are lots of such people here on PP. Since it is a common perception here that he deserves a chance, they will say that he is useless just to be different.


    You cannot ask us to take sides against arithmetic - Winston Churchill

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